There Are No Girls on the Internet - De-influencing 101: Stuff Mom Never Told You

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

Do you need another water bottle? How about another pair of leggings? If you’ve been seeing de-influencing videos on your social media feed telling you not to buy new stuff, this is the episode for you.  Bridget joins Sam and Anney at Stuff Mom Never Told You to dig into why de-influencing is all over our social media feeds and what it says about where we’re all at.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. We are popping in again from hiatus to have a much-needed conversation all about de-influencing. If you're on TikTok, you have probably already seen content about de-influencing, which is pretty much exactly what it sounds like, where influencing tries to influence you to buy certain things,

de-influencing says, wait a minute, actually, do you need to buy another water bottle when you already have five in your cabinet? I am fascinated by the phenomena that is de-influencing, and more importantly, what this de-influencing trend says about our current social and economic climate. So I joined my friend Samantha and Annie over at the podcast Stuff Mom Never Told You to dig into de-influencing and why are we are seeing it all over our social media feeds. So I hope you enjoy. I have a theory that especially during times that are like turbulent or uncertain, the pandemic would definitely fit into this.

Many of us, myself very, very much included, really turn to online shopping. for a quick serotonin boost or a quick, you know, this is going to feel good or like, I got into this habit of enjoying the feeling of kind of giving myself Christmas every day. Like, oh, there's going to be, when I come home, there's going to be a present waiting for me, you know, from past me. And so this is not just my theory. I do have a little bit of research to back it up. People really leaned into online shopping during the pandemic.

According to the most recent 2020 annual retail trade survey release from the census, e-commerce sales increased by $244.4.2 billion, or 43% in 2020, the first year of the pandemic, rising from $571.71.2 billion in 2019 to $815.4 billion in 2020. And people, again, myself very shamefully included, really relied on online retailers specifically, like Amazon. Unsurprisingly, Amazon stock hit a new all-time high during 2020. and it's only now, like, pretty recently, starting to fall from that huge boost during the beginning of the pandemic. And a quick disclaimer here that, like, I just feel we need to say that obviously,

we're going to be talking about our online shopping habits, but there are a whole bunch of folks who rely on online shopping for very legitimate real reasons. Folks with disabilities or chronic illnesses, you know, for them, online shopping can be a lifeline. Being a swamped parent or a caregiver who can't always, you know, pop out to the store for one thing. It's also a reason why somebody might really, really lean on online shopping.

I don't want to make it seem like anybody who is pressing buy online is just leaning into bad habits that they should question. So I'm not talking about those folks. I'm really talking about the quick purchase of things that you really don't need or maybe even really don't want because an algorithm on social media told you to do so. And I want to talk about why the tide is maybe sort of terms. on this a little bit. Ooh.

Okay, yeah. I mean, it has been... I have a friend who loves Target, not a sponsor, but she loves, like, the Target app. And, like, she will text me as if, like, yeah, Christmas has come early.

The Target app has updated. And I feel like this wasn't a thing during the pandemic. And we've talked about it because it is clearly, like, emotional... It's something she does when she's stressed. And then, like,

I feel that during the pandemic, I have seen that a lot more where people are like, I need something that will make me feel better for a little bit. This is a great point that you brought out because I did, I hate it when people are like judging folks for, I don't know, getting groceries delivered or whatever. And there's a lot of impact of that. But for some people, that's not like laziness. Right.

I mean, we definitely relied on it during the pandemic as something. that we didn't want to go out, we didn't want to spread things, we were very concerned, people who were even compromised. And it was a resource that was necessary that really did help try to maintain the spread. And that was the first time you really understood why this could be beneficial. But yeah, that definitely can be abused. And I know this is a whole different thing. And there's that whole conversation of people with disabilities have to rely on things like this.

And it's a service that that should have been happening previously. Absolutely. We absolutely should not be like judging or shaming people for whom they really rely on this for a lifeline. And I think that's one of the reasons why it's so important that the people who are, you know, doing the grocery delivery, who are the, you know, workers and the staff, they should be treated well, they should be compensated well. They should have protections. Like, and people with disabilities should not have to rely on like private, some pretty exploitative, like, grocery delivery apps. Like we, like everybody deserves better. and we shouldn't be judging anybody who is just trying to live their life. But I do think that we are in a place where people who, again, myself included, maybe got into some bad online shopping habits without really hitting pause and really thinking about whether those habits, you know, maybe got us through a tough time emotionally during 2020, but maybe aren't really serving us so well or our wallet so well, if you're me,

here in 2023. Right, right. It's kind of interesting because I think we've talked about this before. I'm a big fan of TikTok. I can get lost in it for hours and hours out of time. I get so many things. And like, yeah, it starts to read me and I'm like, okay, stop that. Why are you sending me an ad about this? And it's not necessarily an ad, but it's someone that I trust or I say trust in quotes because it's someone that I like and follow and they seem like good people. You never know. And then they're like, Oh, yeah, these are my five Amazon finds, and these are my five Costco finds. And I'm like, yes, you are correct. I need those things. Did I know that it existed? No, but I absolutely need those things. And it's getting to me more and more.

The five Amazon stuff always gets me. And I have this thing with like, there are so many creators on TikTok, which I'm also addicted to you. So I feel you on that, Sam. But like TikTokers who are all about, you know, like, oh, here's like, here's what my really organized desk or workspace looks like. Like I clearly have some kind of emotional hang up around the way that work gets done in my life. And so I subsequently follow a lot of creators for whom that's their niche. And so they're like, here's what my notion looks like. Here's what my dot

journaling looks like. Here's what my laptop or workstation looks like. And that I clearly have some kind of a like hang up about that internally. And so I watch a lot of that. And so whenever they're like, my, you know, go to my Amazon storefront, my five, you know, the five things that really help me stay productive, I know that I'm kind of vulnerable and primed to just click by without even thinking about it because it speaks to some sort of internal, like, issue I have, or I'm like, I must think that, oh, the way that work gets done in my life is not up to par with the way that work gets done in the lives of other creative people or something. And so it's really, I think part of it really is like knowing your triggers and knowing, knowing the vulnerabilities that

you have that we're so likely to try to fill by hitting buy now or by buying a thing that we really ultimately might not even need. And so, you know, if I had to give this, this conversation like a, so what, it's that we should really be in a headspace of asking some questions when it feels like the algorithm or the app or the platform is the one. in control and we are passive. I think that what is really important is if we switch that dynamic so that we, the human, the person who makes the money and makes the decisions about how the money gets spent,

is the one in control and that we are not, you know, at the behest of algorithms and influencers who we don't even know and, you know, apps and platforms. And so in service of that, I think it kind of makes sense to kind of talk about how we got here, like a little bit of a look back on influencing and. at how we got to this point, or maybe people are kind of starting to ask a few questions about the role that social media influencing has on our life. So if I had to ask you, what do you think used to be the main app on social media where a lot of influencing was taking place? What would you say? Instagram. Instagram. It's absolutely Instagram. Back in the golden era of Instagram,

it looked good. It had a good layout. It was easy to use. It was understandable. It was a different time, right? And so I think, like, one, it felt back then, this was, I'm going to say like, this is like 2014 is when I would kind of situate this. So it felt kind of clear how one would get engagement. So if you were on the, if you were an influencer, if you were on the influencer side of things, you probably had a pretty clear sense of like what the algorithm was going to reward. It rewarded images of faces, for instance. And so the rules seemed pretty doable, you know, post-exam. every day, post natively from the Instagram app as opposed to adding a picture later.

Like, it was pretty clear, like, what you needed to do to do well on Instagram, algorithmically speaking. I think that us as the audience who was consuming the content that influencers made on Instagram, we also had a pretty good sense of what to expect, you know? You were going to get conventionally attractive women who were giving you, like, life envy and making it seem like, oh, well, if you bought this specific item, your life could be, you like mine, right? And like, obviously, this is like a curated, manufactured lie that could absolutely be harmful to people who were consuming it, as research is like very clear. But I would argue that there was something familiar to it, right? Like, we understood what to expect as an

audience who was consuming the content of influencers. But now here in 2023, there are two big things that are happening that I believe have really shifted this golden Instagram age and thus shifted how folks are maybe feeling about influencers. The first is that the social media landscape is really, really changing and really seeing some seismic shifts. We've seen this play out in a couple ways. One, people just are not using Instagram

like they were in the golden era of like 2014. A new report in the Atlantic that came out last month called Everyone is Over Instagram said that Instagram is slowly and steadily losing its relevance specifically with young users. And like, that's the user base that any social media platform really needs to court. Like young people, you want young people to really be using your platform

for to feel like really relevant. Right, right. And it's funny because I am not on TikTok, but I've noticed that Instagram is just like videos now. It's like TikTok, which is a different thing. It's a different thing. But it is interesting to me. I'm fascinated by kind of these like shifts.

Why do people like? like why are people into TikTok over like Instagram? Why is that happening? But yeah, I mean, why is it that Instagram has lost favor? Why is it fading? That's a great question. I would say one is just that like when the rules become less transparent or just less doable, I think people find it less kind of worth it to post there, right?

And so I think that if the rules felt clear in 2014, today it seems like every month, Instagram announces a new thing they're going to be prioritizing. It used to be static images, then it's going to be video. You know, it used to be like, if you posted once a day, that was enough, then Instagram put out guidance for creators that was like, oh, you need to be making four reels a day. That's a lot of content. It's just not possible.

And so if Instagram decides we're going to algorithmically reward people who follow this, like, difficult to follow and also difficult to understand and constantly changing set of guidelines, And if you don't follow those, we're not going to show your post to anybody, even your friends, even the people who want to see your posts. It just eventually starts to feel like, well, what's the point, right? Like, that's one of the reasons why personally, like, I've used Instagram less is because whatever the guidance is they give to creators to try to get more engagement on the platform, it's just too much, right? Like, I have at work. I don't, like, Instagram is not my job. For some people, it is their job.

And so I can understand, you know, playing the game a little bit more. But it's just not what I do. I have do other things in my life. And so if then I'm going to be kind of, I use this word very lightly, but like punished algorithmically by having my content not shown to people, even people who I know, even people who are my friends who I know want to see that content, what is the point? Like, why jump through those hoops if that's how you're going to be treated on a platform, you know?

Right. You know, and I was thinking as with Instagram, when we were talking about, yes, there's all these rules and younger people are getting frustrated. They also changed the algorithm. I know there was like a whole, year-long campaign of people just asking, can you see this post? And even for our post at Stuff Mom Never Told You, we are verified. We have over 30,000 followers. We rarely get more than four or five likes because we don't post but every other day. And like when you look up,

how do you get, you know, followers or views? It's literally like you said, the post four things, but now it's adding post this, put it on the reel, put it on the like the videos and you have to do all three of those things. So you're literally taking four post, three to put it on the same site. And it doesn't sound like it's worth it anymore. And then the suppression alone with the algorithm, why? Just why? Exactly.

And you have to basically be a one person, like, studio, right? Because, like, you have to make the post, turn it into a real, comments. It's like, you have a job, dude. Like, you're a podcaster. It's like your job is not doing Instagram. And I've actually worked with, like, social media managers, like professional social media managers to help grow my account. And, you know, this was a few years ago,

so I can't speak to whether or not this is good advice now. So don't try this thinking this is how you grow Instagram now because I really don't know. But something that she did is like, oh, yeah, I just spend a good amount of time commenting on content of accounts that are similar to you in what they post. And so, you know, she would spend like two hours a day just being like, great posts.

Yeah, I love this. And like, who has time for that, right? Like, I was doing a little experiment to see if it would help. And it actually did help grow my account, but like, am I going to sit there and do that? Absolutely not, right? And so I can see why people are just like, yeah, not going to do that, don't need that. And I think, Annie, I think that you mentioned that when you go to Instagram now, what you kind of see is a lot of reels that are really TikToks that you saw on TikTok

if you have that platform, you know, a week ago. And so it kind of, I think separately, I think that Instagram is really, confused about what role they are trying to play in our lives and in our social media diets. I don't think that they know. I think that like one day it'll be images, one day it'll be reals. It's like not clear. And it's so funny because someone else who is really impressed about this are the Kardashians. Folks might recall that over the summer, Kylie Jenner and Kim Kardashian both posted an image saying,

make Instagram, Instagram again. Stop trying to be TikTok. I just want to see cute photos of my friends. And this is really kind of not surprising to me because the Kardashians are so good at being Instagram friendly or the friendly for the version of Instagram that Instagram used to be, right? Like they're all beautiful. They all take beautiful pictures. They're all really good at looking kind of Instagram perfect and polished.

TikTok takes a completely different skill set. You kind of have to be funny or engaging or, you know, you have to have something that's going to make, like just looking good on TikTok is not enough. You have to bring something else. And no shade to the Kardashians. That is not my skill set either. So I'm not trying to put them down or anything. And so what's interesting is that after the Kardashians said like, oh, go back to cute pictures

of my friends, the head of Instagram responded over the summer saying that Instagram, they just needed to focus on video and reels to survive and grow as a platform. But then just last week, he posted that, you know, that was the wrong move. He did a complete about face. said that Instagram, quote, overfocused on video last year. And so now the platform is going back to balancing the amount of photos and videos shown to users. In one example that he gave, he said that Instagram will consider how often a person likes

and comments on photos versus videos to determine which content will appear first in their feeds. And so this really tells me that, like, they don't know what they're doing. They're not sure of their strategy, you know, it's not clear to them what they're trying to be. And I think it's no wonder how people are like, yeah, I'll let you all figure it out. and while y'all figure it out, I'm going to be on TikTok, or just be getting rid of social media altogether. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with. Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business.

Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcast. Call 844-844-I-heart to get started. That's 844-8-4-8-4-I-heart. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. You know, I think it's kind of funny because I think of this analogy. When you think of Instagram, I think of the elder millennials.

That's me. Don't, don't want to hear it because I'm in between the Xers and the millennials. I came up the right at the cusp. But like elder millennials trying to be cool and hip and talk to those Gen Ziers who would be the TikTok kids. Oh, my gosh. That's what's happening. What we see is like Instagram trying to be really cool and really relevant. but it's just kind of missing the mark

because we are no longer at that point in life. And I find it funny because that's all I can think of, TikTok versus Instagram, trying to become TikTok. And TikTok's like, I don't care about you. Yeah. It's so funny. Nothing is like more, I mean, I love this content

because I think that like, Gen Z younger folks, like, I love it when they come for us elder millennials. Sometimes they'll be like things that millennials really need to stop doing on Instagram. And I'm always like, yes, drag me. Like, you know, like no more boomerangs. You're going to fix us.

Thank you. And, you know, the other part of that, and again, I think this has a lot to do with the generational changes. And again, I love it, is that, yeah, Instagram really gave birth to, as we said, influencers and selling us things and selling us ideas and selling us things that we will never be and try to. But what we try to still attain, which is the Kardashians, you know, they were a really big force in that. But with TikTok, it seems like the young. younger generations that was really into it. It was like, we're tired of celebrities. We want a chance to see regular people

who have a lot of good ideas and content. And the TikTok is for the people, because I know there's been a lot of pushback as celebrities are now jumping on TikTok, but people like, stop it, this is not for you. Oh my God, I could talk about this for hours. This is something I find so fascinating. So I think because TikTok is a younger platform,

they just have a completely different relationship with digital life than millennials have. And so I absolutely agree with you that especially for younger folks who are spending time on TikTok and TikTok is the fastest growing social media app out there right now. I think the audience is very different from the curated Instagram audience and that they do want more real stuff. Like they want authenticity. Not that like fake like, oh, my house is so messy authenticity, like really authenticity. And they are vocal.

Like they will call you out. There was a whole thing with, I think it was Bethany Frankel. going on TikTok. And her transition to TikTok wasn't very smooth. And I think part of it is because like, celebrities maybe are used to being able

to say certain things and get everybody thawning all over them on Instagram or on other social media platforms. And they're not finding that reception on TikTok. Like, TikTok is the app for like regular people to shh-talk. It's not for celebrities

to like hawk their perfect lives. And there's actually a influencer right now, like a big influencer, Michaela Nogeria. I apologize I'm saying her last name wrong, but it's in very hot water for trying to do a mascara brand, like sponsored content

while allegedly wearing false lashes. And so obviously you can't be like, this mascara is so great. Look at the way it should transform my lashes where it's like, I think those are fake lashes. And so people are calling this person out because that doesn't fly there, right? And so I think that like you're exactly right, Sam,

that the audience that is big on TikTok is a lot more vocal, a lot more savvy, and they will call you out if they feel like they're being pushed something that's just like a fantasy that's not real. Maybe on Instagram, you might get away with that, but not on TikTok. Well, I will say the thing about TikTok

is there are TikTok sleuths, that that is their intent, and the entire content is like to call out the falsehood of other content. It is the rabbit holes I have gone down where I'm like, I don't even know this person. I have never even seen them on TikTok, but apparently they're faking,

having a scar to get clout. I need to reach a thousand comments and spend six hours of my time on this, despite only having one life to live on this green earth. And I know what you're talking about, and I hate that I know what you're talking about because I did the damn same thing.

I'm like, what is this has to do with it? Like, it has nothing to do with me. This isn't even somebody who I follow or am invested in, but like, you're like, the evidence that people compile is like, I'm fascinated. If anything ever happens to me, oh, I guess I shouldn't say that. But like, the way that like TikTok sleuths are able to like investigate the nitty-gritty,

a that really doesn't matter. My hats are off to them. Right. The petty is real. And if it's all in good fun, there's definitely seriousness that we definitely talked about before. But the pettiness is real. And when you get invested, you're just like, well, oh, oh. And you can't help but be the voyeur.

and you feel a little guilty, I will say that. But you can't put one over on them. And it continues to baffle me because as you're talking about, TikTok is one of the younger ones, the way that it has grown exponentially, is it going to be able to keep up with that demand? Yeah, that's such a great question. I actually, this is a fuego take, so, you know, whatever, this is my opinion.

I think that we are going to see government legislation of TikTok in 2023. This is like my big tech prediction. I think that it's growing so much. I think there are national security questions. I guess I'll just put it that way. I think that, you know, there have been, there is like rare bipartisan support for doing something about TikTok. It's already been banned on, I think, federal government devices can't have. TikTok on them. A handful of states have banned having TikTok on state-run devices, and that number

is growing. Universities are the same. That number is growing of universities that have banned TikTok from state-owned devices. I think that we are seeing enough traction in government in a bipartisan way and also civil society in institutions that I do think that, like, something is going to happen or be done to combat TikTok's growth. Because their growth has just been like, if folks want to look it up, Like, it is wild. How many users it is gaining. It's just, like, exploding. One of the things that I think about TikTok becoming kind of the new place where people

are spending their time online on social media, why that might be fueling a kind of backlash against influencing is that this moves a lot faster than Instagram, which fuels what they call micro trends. And so if a trend is something that is in style for a little bit of time, a micro trend is something that becomes in style or in vogue very, very far. quickly and then burns out just as quickly. Something can be iconic and very popular one month. And by the end of the month, people are talking about it being out of style.

A great example is like this clothing brand that I really doubled down on and like went for a hard house of sunny. They make this like very bright colored clothing that really pops on social media. And I was like, oh, my God. And I bought like a sweater and a dress and this and that. Maybe a month later, people were like, oh, it already looks so dated. And so if you think about what is sort of in style, how quickly it becomes. become sort of passe. I think that TikTok becoming a place where people spend more of their digital

time online is one of the reasons why trends are kind of flaming out so quickly. And so if you're an influencer, you know, that's just a lot. Having to like, it is exhausting to be in the even this in the audience to be told, you need to buy a new thing over and over and over again. And in January, it's this water bottle. In February, that water bottle's out. Now it's this water bottle. It's, It's no wonder that people can't really keep up with that because it's too fast. That's so funny. I feel like I'm the like millennial person that comes in like, oh, I finally got this thing. And they're like, that's three years ago.

What are you doing? It does feel like it moves very, very quickly. And actually an interesting implication of this kind of thing is like, because I also do a food podcast, is the thing like the feta pasta, like feda cheese, like you couldn't find it anywhere. And it was because of TikTok. And then a month later, everyone was like, what are you talking about? But for that one month, nobody could find fed of cheese. Yeah, I see it with food.

It's so interesting when it happens with food because it does correlate with when you go to the grocery store. It's just like not there. I've heard that tinned fish is like the new thing right now, which if you don't want to talk about like our economic climate, the fact that like tinned fish, like, oh, just having our tinned fish date night. That tells me something. I'm like, oh, people are... thinking about our economic climate in some perhaps like less than cheery outlook. Yes, which brings us to what we've been talking about is another piece of this is. Like what I was saying with myself and my friends is this anxiety of this like maybe if I buy this thing,

I'll feel better. Like maybe this will make things better. And that's not unique, right? Absolutely. And so the second thing that we're seeing that's really, I think shaping all this is this kind of feeling. of economic unease and uncertainty that is impacting the way that people are responding to influencing. I think that a lot of folks are concerned about an economic downturn. We're seeing layoffs in a lot of sectors

like tech and media. I think people are perhaps wary about spending money on things that they see online and maybe doing it in a different way than maybe once we're in 2020. And I think that, like, more importantly, I think that as we go into times that are uncertain, economically uncertain, economically unstable,

people don't really want to open up their phone and see people living the high life, right? Like, it just doesn't feel good to be worried about inflation, worried about food being on the shelves, worried about how you're going to make rent, if you're going to be laid off, and open your phone and see an influencer trying to sell you that their life is perfect

and that your life can be perfect too if you buy this thing that you don't need, don't have money for, and don't even really want. I think that people are just not, feeling that vibe anymore. I think there was a time where that had a time and a place and it felt very familiar. I think right now we're not

loving it. Yeah. Yeah. It just feels kind of like out of touch and you brought off the Kardashians earlier and they're big, like they've even been in the news recently for like lawsuits, but they were really big about this of like selling you a thing and just felt like they weren't

kind of reading the room, I guess. Totally. I remember they and I talked about this in an episode, sort of, there are no girls on the internet, my own podcast, around the holidays. I remember, I think it was last year or the year before, they posted their Easter spread. And it was like the most opulent thing, like even for Kardashian standards, the most opulent thing you've ever seen. It was like life-size teddy bears, full-size, like five full-size gumball machines with

like pink gum in them, four bicycles. It was like the most elaborate and last. avish opulent spread, even by Kardashian standards that I have seen. And the response was not like, wow, how cool for them. The response was overconsume much? And I think that that really shows us that we are in a place where when they posted that, they probably thought everyone was going to love it. But in reality, most people were like, this is a little opulent, seems a little tacky,

seems a little out of touch for one holiday. Like, at what point do we start asking questions about the value of overconsumption? and whether or not that's a value that is like inherently good or healthy or like serving us in our lives. Right. And I mean, Instagram, that's kind of the thing. It's like you're presenting this really curated version of your life. And then kind of, at least in my case, and I think there's been some studies about this, but like feeling bad because you'd see other people's pictures.

You're like, oh, your life is way better than mine. But also, and I could be wrong about this, but I feel like a lot of the influencers I saw on Instagram were women. A lot of the people who were like, hey, you need to buy this thing. Maybe that's just the algorithm for me, but it was women.

It is not just you. I think this is inherently gendered. The lion's share of influencers are women and girls. According to a study by the influencer marketing agency, Isaiah, in 2021, women accounted for more than 85% of sponsorships made as influencers. But I should know that because this is America, there is also an influencer pay gap,

even though there are more, like, women make up the bulk of influencing, they're still paid less than men for influencing, which is a real head scratcher. But yeah, I think it's women and girls who are being sold all of this. We're not as being sold products. We are being sold products as a proxy for, like, getting your life together

or, like, succeeding at being a woman. or I think that we're being sold on the idea that you can consume your way into the kind of life that you want. And I think that capitalism and consumption as a means of perpetuating gender roles has always been a thing. And I think right now in 2023, I think a lot of women are just exhausted. We have been burdened with so much. We have had our rights just like, it's not a very rosy time to be a woman in 2020. I guess what I'm saying. I feel like if I go into it, I'll be all here all day.

But, you know, I think that a lot of women are just. Just like, on top of everything else that we have to shoulder, I don't have the emotional bandwidth to buy into this idea that tells me that I have to buy this product on Instagram to be a more complete woman. You know, I think more women are calling BS on this idea, especially younger women. Right. I will say, so immediately after the new year, the first thing, one of the first, and I think she went super viral, is this girl laying down in bed in TikTok and saying,

you don't need this. Here are the five products you don't need and then goes down a list of all the trends and said, this is not, you're not going to use this, you're not going to ever see it again, don't buy it. That was the first video I saw. I was like, oh, what is this? And the next one was the girl who was like,

hey, I have bought every single expensive hair product. These are bullshit. And here are the products you should go to, go to CVS. This is much better. Don't buy those expensive things. And I was like, what is happening? Yeah, so that is a great example of de-influencing, which is all over TikTok right now.

So what is de-influencing? Well, basically, again, it's exactly what it sounds like. Rather than trying to convince you to buy something, it's telling you you don't actually need to buy this. So creators will be telling you, like, you don't need another water bottle. If you're me, you don't need another notebook that you are not going to use

when you already have, like, 20 on your shelf, or telling you how different TikTok or social media famous products are actually not worth the money, not worth it. According to the newsletter, Glossy, the hashtag de-influencing has 21.4 million views that has increased in popularity

even in just the past week. They spoke to a creator who goes by L. Gray, or Basic, of course, who pointed to the impact of the economy on consumer spending and the ability, or lack thereof, to buy based on

influencer recommendations as one of the reasons why de-influencing is becoming so popular. Elle says, in the last 12 months, we've seen an extreme slowdown in the global economy.

As we enter into a recession, people are starting to feel the effects and are taking a closer look their spending and consumption. Many people have gotten fed up with a constant barrage of micro-trends and must-have items, especially as they take a closer look at their bank accounts. And so, you know, I think that this creator is probably on to something that, you know, we started this conversation today talking about the things that we and, again, myself, very guilty of this, overconsumed online in 2020, I think that de-influencing is a response to some of these over-consumption

habits that a lot of us just sort of picked up during the pandemic in 2020 and like just kept having in our life. And now we're like, wait a minute, is this actually a good idea? Is it actually good that I, you know, will just click by now and get something without really thinking about if I need it, if I want it? Like, is it something I actually truly need? Probably not. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

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Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly. what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

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and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I will say I feel like, and maybe it's just the side of TikTok I'm on because we know it is very curated. These de-influencers who are trying to help you save money and tell you what it is and tell you what's working, what's not working. It's almost a way of women supporting women

or the marginalized, supporting the marginalized, I'm like, you're the one. I know this is aimed towards you. Typically women are typically, you know, those who are in like really harsh places. So I'm going to help you and tell you not to do this. And on top of that, the same conversation about the Gen Ziers, again, I'm still in all of them, is that they are all about calling out the BS. So when they see an influencer saying, this is amazing, and then they start realizing this person is all about the money, this person is not genuinely doing things, kind of like the mascara, we're going to call you out until you don't do this. again as a way to protect other consumers slash other women.

I love how you put that. I absolutely have seen a million times that women and other marginalized people telling each other the truth and leveling with each other and breaking down for each other, that is more powerful than a million dollar PR ad campaign, that a million well-paid like, you know, PR agents working overtime. nothing is more powerful than women sharing their truths with each other. And that can like, yeah, it doesn't matter what like, exibensive marketing firm that you've contracted,

women sharing each other's truths with each other will always be more powerful. Absolutely. Yeah, and I find it interesting because it's those kind of like that same girl I was talking about who was saying, don't buy this and she's now gone viral. Being honest, being truthful and trying to protect others has really built her audience. and she's become an influencer and is now getting credibility

and may be able to go viral enough to start having her own outlets, whether it is, who knows? I know several people from TikTok as well as YouTube, but that's the whole other thing, have shows, get shows, get brand deals or get specific deals that are genuinely good because they are honest

and it's building them up. So it's interesting to see how this, the opposite of that has grown them. Does that make sense? It makes so much sense. I think it marks a shift, and I think it's good. I think that, like, we should question why the powers that be are so quick to reward people who make their entire thing about stuff that you should buy over consumption.

We could be instead building up honest platforms and platforms that say, like, well, you really aren't going to use this or you really don't need this. Like, I love watching on TikTok people who do closet, closet, clean-out, and they're like, these are the top five things I, I, like, remove from people's closets or, like, the top ten things people don't actually wear, because it might actually help create that shift of being a little bit more in-tuned and intentional about what you buy. And I think that's really important. I mean, like, it has so many implications, not, you know, not the least of which is the

environmental impact of, like, you know, I had a little bit of a fast fashion thing myself. Like, I would buy from this brand, she-in, is it Shien, where, you know, it's like, it's so cheap. And it like, it looks like the fancier stuff, but it's so cheap. Then it's like, well, you're like, actually, it is one of the biggest offenders of fast fashion that ends up, you know, polluting our world. And it's like, I don't want to be, I don't want, like, I don't want my unexamined emotional need to translate to a worst world for the next generation to come.

And so I really kind of saw the like need for me to do a little bit of. of thinking and unpacking an intention around my own consumption habits and what I was trying to fill by buying things and the longer term consequences for generations to come. I know that sounds like a lot, but like you got to start somewhere. Right. No, it absolutely goes hand in hand again with the new creators that the people who are getting big on TikTok are those who are like, hey, you're doing these things and it could be, of course, this is a whole different conversation about diagnosing and assuming everybody's one

thing or another, but it does call out to be like, hey, you have this reaction, which could be costing you money, costing you time, because of a trauma, so you're focusing on the wrong thing. Like, I do love seeing them correlate actual action to internalized trauma or maybe reasoning, however you want to say it. But it is encouraging to see that there's more correlations that these influencers slash TikTok people are talking about out loud. So you start considering the actual big. basis of consuming too much or consuming way too fast or not thinking about it.

It's both encouraging and kind of scary to see how quickly this could flip because we really did go from a generation of we have to be perfect, we have to look perfect, we have to be the Kardashians, white girl version. What I mean by that is that skinny, skinny version. You know. You know what I'm talking about. But two, like coming into loving your body. do things that are healthy for you, do things that make you happy, do things that bring you joy, and then going into, and that comes to having peace of mind, and this is how you do it. And so it's kind of interesting to see how we flip there, but we are at this cusp of like

it could flip again, and is it going to be healthy or unhealthy? I think, again, TikTok is encouraging to me to see the creators that I'm seeing. That's such a good point. And I think, you know, the bottom line of this is that you cannot consume yourself into feeling like a complete version of yourself to feeling whole. You know, I talked earlier about how I get really kind of stuck on these like people who are full-time creatives or full-time creative professionals and the way that work gets done in their lives and how it looks so good to me. It looks like they're very together. Like they've got lists. They look very organized and very cozy and very peaceful.

and that clearly that is speaking to some kind of perception that I have internally that I am not enough. There's something I can buy that it's going to make me feel enough. I have to just get there through self-work, through growth, through introspection. I completely understand the need to like just hit by now. And like if I get everything that this woman has in her house, maybe I'll get it. But I won't. You can't consume your way into, I guess, feeling good about what you've got, feeling good about who you are, you know,

feeling good at, like, feeling it like yourself and feeling like that's enough. There's just not a product that's going to do that. It's going to take work. And so I think, you know, that's, it's definitely easier to just buy a thing. And I, boy, do I keep trying. I know, I just got some teas that I went viral.

We won't talk about that more. Oh, it's, I mean, like, this is, I don't want this to sound judging because, like, who amongst us, right? Like, I am, we're all works on progress. But if you were interested in trying to unwork, unpack some of this, like de-influence yourself, first I should say, like, I'm not a professional. So if you are someone listening and you think that you really might have a true issue with, like, buying things and shopping that you might need to talk to somebody about,

you should do that. Talk to a professional if you feel like your issue rises beyond, you know, what we're talking about here. But a couple of tips that might help folks de-influence themselves. My favorite sleeper tip is that if you have an iPhone, or I think it works on Android too. Using your phone in grayscale, my phone is in gray scale,

probably 90% of the time. You can go into your accessibility settings on your iPhone and change your phone to gray scale. And I have it so that the little button on the side, the power button, if I hit that three times, it flips from gray scale to color. So if somebody sends me a picture where it's like, oh, I need to see this in color

to get the context, I can easily flip it to color, flip it back. when I tell you that it makes things on your phone look so much less enticing and less appealing, and I can absolutely feel it. When I'm looking at my phone in color, I can feel the little synapses and neurons going off in my brain that tell me, buy this, click that, look at that, read that. And it makes the experience of using social media more boring, but in a good way. I feel a lot more in control when all of it.

of these bright colors that are literally designed by people who make lots and lots of money to like, you know, fire things in your brain and to get you to be as tuned in and as plugged in as you can. And so I'm a big fan of like trying to throw a wrench in this techno hacking that messes with all of our brains. So trying to put your phone in Grayscale, I love it. Another one is that when you feel that twitch in your brain that says, I need this, don't click by right away, right? Like, ask yourself, does this fill a legitimate need in my life? If you're Samantha's partner, is it just another vessel with which to drink coffee or liquids out of? Do I already have a vessel or several vessels that meet that need?

I'm going to throw it out. And then, yeah, like notice your own. emotions. Like, when you feel influenced, really ask, like, do I feel the need to buy this because it is serving an emotional need or feeling an emotional hole that I have? And what's that about? You can really just start small just asking, huh, isn't that interesting? Be curious about the emotions that are sparked for you when you're using social media. My therapist always says that judgment and curiosity cannot coexist. And so rather than being like, oh, you just are so bad with money. You just throw money away. You just cannot stop shopping online. That's judgment.

And so when you're judging the way that you feel, when you're judging your emotions, you can't be curious about them. Curiosity is how we get to someplace better and like move forward. And then lastly, learn to love what you already have. You know, I spent so long chasing micro trends and quick hit trends that when I look in my closet, there are things in there that I love that I don't even really know where they are. I don't even have access to them or see them because my closet is so full of like stuff that I bought that I didn't even really think about. And so it makes it harder for me to love the things

that I actually do have that feel good. And so the things that I really do value and like, because there are plenty of things that I bought where I'm like, oh, that was, I do not regret that choice. That was a good buy. It makes it harder to really appreciate the things that are good buys and have them stand out when you just buy so much crap that you don't even really need.

Right. Organized because you will find that thing you love that you forgot about for two years. Shop your closet. If you do that, you go, Oh, look at that. Shop your closet. Exactly.

Yes. During the pandemic, I remember there were a couple of times where I was like, I really, really want this thing. And then I would look through my closet and I already have that thing. Yes. I can't tell you how many times it's happened. I'm like doing reruns. Like, I'm already in reruns on my closet.

Like, what is this? And then, like, if you're me anyway, I wear like the same t-shirt like for an entire week. So, yeah. Yeah, buying new clothes Just to wear your uniform every day Like, what are we doing? Right. Yes.

Well, thank you, as always, Bridget, for bringing this topic to us. It was very informative for me. I'm not heard of this. This is amazing. I love it, I love it. Yes, where can the good listeners find you? Well, you can always tune into my podcast on this very same network.

There are no girls on the internet. You can follow me on Instagram at Bridgett, Marie, D.C. I will not influence you. I can't promise that I will never, but you know how it is. We know. Like, we got to eat. No, I'm just kidding. We got to follow me on Twitter at Bridget Marie.

I love it. Yes, go check those out. If you haven't already listeners, thank you again, Bridget for coming. We love having you. Can't wait to have you again? Yes. Yes. And listeners, if who would like to contact us, you can, or email us,

Stephanie and Momstuff at iHeartMedia.com. You can find us on Twitter at Momstub Podcast or on Instagram and TikTok. What? At Stuff Mom Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer, Christina. Thank you. And thanks to you for listening. Stuff One Never Told You's a production of IHeartRadio.

For more podcasts, My Heart Radio, you can check out the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline.

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