There Are No Girls on the Internet - Disinfo Dialogue: Race & Ethnicity Roundtable - TANGOTI Bonus

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

Last year Bridget hosted a roundtable on racialized disinformation attacks with three incredible experts. They talked about the long historical foundations that bad actors have built on to amplify divisions and racial divisions, and the ways tech platforms and other institutions have been used to not only perpetuate disinformation but also make record profits doing it. While marginalized people are disproportionately at risk, disinfo affects everyone. These narratives were a huge problem leading up to the election, and I'm sad to say they will remain a huge problem going forward. The roundtable was part of a video project with the great production company Exposure Labs. We're grateful to them and showrunner Josh Clark for the opportunity to be part of it, and for DCP Entertainment for making it possible.  And special thanks to the incredible panelists for sharing their prescient insight: Jessica Ann Mitchell Aiwuyor, Founder of the National Black Cultural Information Trust; Liz Lebron, Founder & President of Blue Nexus Group; and Jaya Savita Aiyer, Director of the Asian Pacific Islanders Civic Action Network. Check out the entire Disinfo Dialogue here at DCP Entertainment: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRl4XDBfORqgbg7vB_I1JrJnrQxw-EDqgSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than adds supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

Learn how podcasting can help your business. Call 844-844-I-Hart. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. Timbo, in every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source,

the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, We're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world.

Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

There are no girls on the internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. So we're still in between seasons, but I've got something really special I wanted to share with y'all. About a year ago, I hosted a roundtable on gendered and racialized disinformation, with three incredible women-of-color disinformation experts really doing the work in the field to understand and combat the weaponization of inflammatory lies about our identity. And as part of my post-election kind of personal come-to- Jesus post-mortem, I relisten to it.

And I was struck by how prescient our conversation was. What was the terrible election we all just lived through? One where racialized and gendered disinformation really took center stage. We talked about the long historical foundations that bad actors have built on to amplify divisions along race and gender lines. And the way that tech platforms have been used to not only perpetuate that disinformation, but also make record profits by doing it. The Roundtable was part of a video documentary project I did with Exposure Labs.

the company behind the Netflix documentary, The Social Dilemma, and many other excellent projects. And I am particularly grateful to director and showrunner Joshua Clark for leading this incredible project and for making it available to share with all of you here at There Are No Girls on the Internet. It is important work and I am glad we are able to air it here. Check it out. Welcome to the Disinfo Dialogue, where we're exploring the legacy of cultural disinformation, how it has targeted traditionally marginalized communities, both before and during the Internet age, and what it means for all of us. I'm your host, Bridget Todd.

We're joined by an expert roundtable featuring Jessica Ann Mitchell Iwuyer, founder of the National Black Cultural Information Trust, Liz LeBron, Disinformation Researcher at Blue Nexus Group, and Jaya Savita Ayer, Director of the Asian Pacific Islanders Civic Action Network. So I want to start with the word disinformation. I've sometimes had a little bit of discomfort with this word because I think it can be kind of a buzzword and might not actually get at the ways that inaccurate, inflammatory content about our identity and our communities really impacts us and our democracy. So what do you think when you hear the word disinformation? You're so right. Disinformation, you know, it was a buzzword for a minute. But first of all, disinformation did not start with the Internet. It did not start with the digital age. It's been

around since time and memorial. So it's really a deliberate and concerted effort to distort information and give people faulty, false information and deliberate really being the key words. So, you know, your Aunt Mildred saying, oh, I think the election is on Wednesday, that's just, you know, somebody being misinformed. That's very different than a bad actor putting together a deliberate campaign with the hopes of changing a whole people's behavior. I really like how you kind of set that up. The working definitions that I use and that kind of help.

ground being when talking about these like really abstract concepts is misinformation, disinformation, and malinformation, right? We think of misinformation as exactly what you said. It's your aunt saying, you know, something incorrect that's based on something that maybe she saw on social media. Disinformation, I think, often has kind of an agenda or has some sort of seedy background within it. And then malinformation is kind of the thing that is meant to cause harm, right? That's the thing that's meant to cause hurt. That's meant to divide us. That's meant to alienate people in communities and is meant to really perpetuate not only harm, but lack of trust. And we all fall victim to it in various ways. That's so true. I love both of you all's definitions.

Disinformation is false information spread with an agenda and misinformation is false information spread, but often unknowingly. And I think it's really important to make that distinction because if we don't make that distinction, sometimes we end up demonizing the very communities that we're trying to protect from this misinformation. And I'm really glad, Jayah, that you brought up mal-information because that's not talked about as much.

But mal-information can be truthful information that is used within certain narratives to persuade, people to react in a certain way. So let's get into some of those historical examples because this is, I really want to get into this, so much of the malinformation and disinformation that I have seen at targeting communities of color really are trying to pit us against each other to say, oh, like, you need to be afraid of this community, this community is taking your resources, this

community is a threat to you. Why do you think that is? Why are we seeing this? And how have you seen this play out on your own work? I can say specifically in terms of the black community. There's an ongoing disinformation campaign to sow a rift between African Americans and black immigrants or descendants of black immigrants. Part of that is meant to break down the power of black collective activism. There has been solidarity built over time where these communities come together.

We have people like Kwame Torei. we have Malcolm X, who is a descendant of African Americans and his mother was from the Caribbean. So we have all these experiences through the Harlem Renaissance, through the Black Arts period, through the Black Power movement of people of African descent from various ethnicities and backgrounds coming together to fight for our civil and human rights. and it's only getting greater unless you come up with a way to put us at odds with each other to where we feel like we're in competition with each other, to we feel like we're taking resources from each other. No, absolutely. And it comes back to sowing distrust to make us not trust one another.

There's a longstanding history of trying to pit Latinos and black communities against one another. as if Afro-Latinos do not exist. You know, so first of all, yeah, so completely erasing Afro-Latinos, you know, off the bat. So one really just awful narrative that I saw was about the vice president. So saying I've seen a lot of disinformation in the Latino community that because she is black, and here again, erasing the fact that she is also, you know, an Asian-American, erasing that completely.

she's not going to look out for the interest of Latinos. How could she? She's a, you know, a black woman. She's only going to look out for the interest of a black people. That's so funny. You brought that up because in the black community, the disinformation about the vice president, Kamala Harris, is she's half Asian.

She's not black enough. She don't represent us. And so it's that distrust on that end as well. I mean, and the funniest thing is on the place. upside within the Asian community and specifically within the South Asian and Indian community. Kamala Harris isn't South Asian enough or her hosting parties or trying to kind of build solidarity and community with the AAPI population is seen as performative because, you know, she's picking and choosing when she wants to be South Asian. She's picking and choosing when she wants

to be Asian. And I wanted to get back to your previous point around kind of the history of solidarity and in the history of inter and intra-and-infra black solidarity and talk really about the fact that the AAPI, the Asian-American Solidarity Movement would not have happened without black civil rights leaders and the black power movement, right? The concept, the term Asian-American came out because the term African-American was coined, the term black American was coined. But the politics of division, the politics of saying, you know, oh, those black kids are getting into Harvard or whatever, and that's because of affirmative action,

and Asian kids are getting into Harvard enough because of affirmative action, right? Or narratives like that really are looking to divide us because when we work together, like we have historically, change happens and change is terrifying to people in power. Yes. Yeah, and Bridget, going back to your point

about what is disinformation, this dynamic right here was really interesting. The three of us seeing the same, same piece of disinformation from different lenses. And so I will tell you, when I have done the research looking into what is happening on the disinfo front in the Latino media space, that narrative doesn't show up. That narrative doesn't show up because it is so targeted. Right. So that there's a reason in Latino spaces you don't hear, oh, you know, the vice president is not Asian enough. you know, what we hear is the narrative that will play on the divides within our own community,

which we have to address. You know, there's colorism in our communities, there's all kinds of things. But we're not the only ones who are aware of it. Bad actors see us fighting amongst ourselves, and they walk right in there and just try and make that gap wider. Is part of it that some of these divisions that really do exist, these fractures really do exist in our communities, but we're maybe not to be. talking about them, not doing the work to heal them or really even point them out, and thus we're all sort of more easily exploited? It's not just that we're not talking about it enough, especially in terms of African American history or black American history in general. You see right

there's a concentrated effort for it to not even be taught in schools. When I was growing up, little black girl in Georgia, we got a paragraph in that social studies book. Lincoln, freed the slaves, they did sharecropping civil rights. MLK, Rosa Parks, boom, that's our paragraph. That was it. So there was a lot to do with the educational structure and systems, the institutions, where if you wanted to learn the vastness and the robustness of Africana studies and black history and Pan African history, that would really help people to better understand the

interconnections that could help with those conversations in that dialogue, a lot of times that education is restricted to higher education to college. So it's not even that we're not necessarily not talking about it enough. Many of us are not given that education to begin with, and then we become more and more vulnerable. You got a whole paragraph. I'm jealous. I mean, I'm Puerto Rican, and the number of times people have asked me if I'm a citizen, I can't even. I mean, you know, yeah. So, you know, we've been a part of this country since 1898. We've been citizens by birth since 1917.

And, I mean, the number of people who have no idea who, you know, oh, do I need a passport to go there. I mean, so I'm jealous of your paragraph. I'll take it. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends,

me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan, to Bob Odenkirk, to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst in the group. The worst?

Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard.

But they're open to change. Do you have a name? suggestion. We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection, listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can

extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-844-I-Hart. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotes. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs,

the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardaway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month,

I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. At we're back. I mean, I really do think it goes back to something that I wanted to start with, this idea that we're not talking about individuals spreading individual pieces of misinformation or disinformation. It's institutional, right? It's like all connected.

It's this web that makes it so hard to escape these very pervasive, very inflammatory lies about the fabric of who we are. And it all goes back to that distrust that you were talking about earlier. And something that I'm curious if you all saw, I definitely saw it, especially in the summer of 2020. Do you all remember that summer? The reckoning. The reckoning. And something that I really saw, and I'm wondering how you saw it play out, was I think that

bad actors knew that that was a particular time that maybe would highlight or inflame some existing historical traumas, particularly for immigrants and the descendants of immigrants. Did you all see this as well? 100%. And, you know, in 2020, I was working in election administration. So I can tell you the deliberate exploitation of the narrative that, you know, undocumented people, illegals as, you know, as they refer to them in the disinfo circles, we're going to throw the election, in some way, you know, study after study after study shows that what they were talking about that level of, you know, fraud just does not exist in our elections. Instead of being proud of that and listening to the folks who run elections, who actually

administer elections telling us in every state across the country that in 2020, through a pandemic, we somehow managed to pull off an election. They were exploiting that narrative, especially coming after. after immigrant communities. Yeah, yeah, and I would love to kind of jump into that and talk about, you know, with the summer of 2020, it was we were seeing increasingly high numbers of anti-Asian violence, attacks on our elders.

You know, we were just being hit by a barrage of violence. And at the same time, the solution was being posed that hate crime legislation was the answer, right? That policing was the answer. And we know as communities of color, as communities that are navigating different immigration narratives and experiences, whether you're documented or undocumented or a non-citizen, that the police aren't always a solution. But there's also that other wonderful marketing tactic in the U.S. of how to be a good American

or how to be a good citizen. So you call 911 when you feel unsafe. But, you know, we saw those Band-Aid solutions and we saw those disinfo narrative. saying that all of these insane rioters were coming and they were all mostly black and brown and they were setting fireworks off and they were doing all these horrifying things and breaking windows and it was really speaking to a deep-seated fear thanks to media within communities that we shouldn't trust people who look different from us. And I'm so glad you brought up the whole, the PR of the good American or how to be a good citizen because a lot of that fear mongering about

protesters is built off of a centuries long anti-black narrative birth of a nationism if you may where the blacks are free and they're running amok. Look at the three different stereotypes here right so it's black people running amok it's Asian people who are making us all sick with COVID completely separate right And then it's Latino immigrants who are voting in droves to throw an election. And it's all about marketing. And you're totally right. It's white supremacy at its root.

And it's about institutional bias, institutional, power dynamics, all of those things. And I think something in that reminds me of what you said, Jessica, about how it's so easy to demonize people who, like, quote, fall for disinformation. A better question is, like, how could you not fall for it, right? It pains me sometimes in the disinfo community that we sometimes are talking down to people and discounting the actual reality of how sometimes well-financed, well-organized, well-coordinated, these disinformation campaigns actually truly are. And I think that's why research has shown that one of the most effective ways to combat disinfo, instead of going after each individual narrative,

is to actually talk to people about the mechanism. because once you show them how to spot it for themselves, they can say, oh, wait a minute, this person is trying to dupe me. And I'd love to add in, right, then there's the extra layer of within each ethnic group and ethnic community in the U.S., there's a different method of communication that we're all using, right? Some people use WhatsApp, some people use WeChat. I know the Vietnamese populations often use YouTube for media and use distribution, right? We're seeing different communities or using different methods of communication.

I can pull out my phone and show you I have at least 100 WhatsApp messages unread from my family, right? Most of which, yeah, and most of which is BS, right? It's like bonkers things, conspiracy theories. And my family is wonderful and they know what they're doing and they know about the world. They're well educated, all of these things. And it's so easy because you see a funny meme and you don't think about it, right? Or you see a video and you're like, oh, I don't know if this is real, but if it is, I should send it. Yeah, it's entertainment.

It's entertainment. Disinformation is often disguised as entertainment. So it's so easy to have a good laugh and forward it to somebody. I'm so glad you brought that up because when Jaya raised the aspect of the different platforms that were on, Twitter, like a merge, especially black Twitter emerged as this space for communal conversation. Now is X. And our community was especially vulnerable because we are having all these critical conversations out in the open that anyone can see and then try to divert and sew in disinformation at the same time.

And then we see it with the entertainment blogs that, good Lord, you put it in the big, bold black print with the white background. Don't believe anything. It's gone. It's millions of views. I want to get into this because I had to personally kind of divest from a couple of very popular Instagram account, sort of black infotainment Instagram accounts, I guess I'll call it, where I realized when I was scrolling Instagram and I would see one of those images of a headline, I won't say a news headline, big, bold, black and white.

People will believe anything. And so often those pieces of content are either misogynistic, they're crapping on black women, they're crapping on black queer youth. It's so easy to package that as hatred toward our communities, particularly people in our communities who are really vulnerable, and people just eat it up. And I guess I wonder, you know, I've sometimes said that I believe that things like racism, misogy noir, queer phobia, transphobia, all of these things are kind of baked in into our experience of being online.

What do you see as the role of social media platforms? Like, are they benefiting from this? What should they be doing? What are they not doing? What's going on? Now, I think many Americans see social media platforms as the digital town square, when in reality, they're private corporations, right?

And private entities that have control over what you see and what you don't see. We have more and more research coming out saying that social media platforms promote content that elicits anger, hurt feelings, sadness, frustration, because that keeps people on the platform longer. It's like a drug. It's addictive. And so if you're seeing only happy things, like, you're going to want to go outside and, like,

see the sun and, I don't know, sit on the grass. Whereas if you're seeing things that are intensely speaking to a feeling of anger or hate or frustration, you will go down that rabbit hole. You will fester on that and that'll bring in more revenue, right? Going back to what the money, if we follow the money, it always goes back to that, right, to the people that are profiting the most remit

and social media platforms profit from disinformation. And I think the reality is not only do we need to open that conversation up and think about us as users as having a stake in in what the platforms do and how they act, but we also think about regulation, right? because we have outdated policy that is supposedly trying to regulate tech from the 90s. And I think the reality is we need legislation that meets the needs and the reality of tech right now

and the potential with what we're seeing with AI and other new technologies that are emerging because it is playing a role in our democracy. And it is playing a role in voter suppression. It is playing a role in dividing our communities. It's playing a role at every level. And these bad actors are getting rich. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guide.

Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. There's that more singer in the first singer in the song. the group. The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard,

you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Cuma me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again.

More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only I-Hart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think I-Hart. streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-heart to get started.

That's 844-8-4-Ehart. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness.

So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come cross. When Jacob met Levan this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. So I'm curious, how do you see disinformation impacting our democracy, like writ large? I mean, it has been impacting our democracy, right? We had January 6th happen. That was a direct consequence of disinformation that had been seen and known by Twitter in particular. It's happening. And yet there wasn't really much effort to try and stop that.

And so it's like, how do you keep track of WhatsApp, YouTube? to WeChat, all of these different messenger, Twitter, like there's a bazillion different platforms that you have to keep track on. And so how do you make sure that those various narratives that are coming out on those various platforms in completely different languages are both being monitored, that accurate information is also being sprinkled throughout that

so that people know when to vote, how to vote, that it's okay to vote, that they can ask for a ballot in their language, that it is actually a violation of their voting right to not get a ballot in, you know, in a language that they speak if their state or city has, you know, certain numbers of languages that they'll translate into. It speaks to that distrust of institutions

that might already be there. Right, yeah. Along the lines of distrust is African Americans and black Americans in general have a longstanding distrust of our government for very, very legitimate reasons. And the cultural or racialized disinformation harps on that and is having a direct or seeking to have a concentrated impact on the way in which we vote or whether or not we feel it's worthy to vote at all. And so that aspect of voter suppression in the midst of the Voting Rights Act being stripped down.

and already having obstacles to face and trying to vote can have a very devastating impact on black communities and the way in which democracy functions or doesn't function for us. I wonder, do you all, I know I see this a lot sometimes from my own friends and family. One of the things about this information is that I think it's meant to just make us check out, check out of our democracy, check out of the conversation.

It's too confusing. I can't keep it straight. And I think a consequence of that is exactly what you just said of, I'm not going to vote, it's not worth it, it doesn't matter. How do you confront that sentiment in a climate where disinformation is so rampant? I think one of the things that has worked, as we've learned over the last few years, talking down to people doesn't work, but narrative building works. Storytelling works. One of the things that we've tried to do at our organization is focus on uplifting narratives, intercultural narratives and storytelling.

That reminds me of a quote I once heard in a training that the antidote to disinformation is not just truth, it's community, its connection. Yes, definitely. And because we trust our communities the most. So we have to lean into that connection, lean into, especially for communities of color, lean into that cultural understanding, lean into that narrative building. Let's talk about some additional solutions here, because if there's one thing that has really been resonating with me from this conversation is that our communities are not monolithic. They are diverse. They are multifaceted.

They're dynamic. There are so many different stories and layers in our communities. So then the solution probably can't then be one-size-fits-all. So how do we get to solutions for this massive process? that disinformation presents. Yeah, I think that speaks to everything we've brought up throughout the conversation, right? It's about inter-solidarity building.

It's about finding and identifying leaders within the community and making sure that they're equipped to have these conversations. It's about meeting people where they're at. It's about having compassion in those conversations because anyone can fall for disinformation and anyone can be a champion in fighting disinformation. Yeah, so I would say first and foremost understand that disinformation that impacts adjacent communities is also impacting you. You know, so as an advocate, when I go out and I ask Latinos to come out and vote, I'm not just asking those that look like me and live like me.

I'm asking queer Latinos. I'm asking Afro-Latinos. I'm asking Asian Latinos. I'm asking everybody. So I have to show up for them when I see these attacks against their community. One key solution is for communities, for activists, for researchers that are concerned about disinformation to hold institutions accountable. They often get out scot-free on these conversations. But I kind of mentioned this earlier. For example, during the COVID shutdown, there was all this conversation about the black community and getting the black community to trust and why is there so much distrust? And I'm like, do you know America? And there was all these different narratives about medical distrust and not as much that should have been

discussed on medical racism. And so in order to build that trust again, you're going to have to deconstruct and break down the structural bias, the institutional racism, and all of the things that made our communities distrust you in the first place. 100%. And then I'll say one more thing, which is about holding tech accountable. Do not fear tech. Do not fear tech, because tech is not perfect, right? So I see a lot of people who hear the term AI, and they get so intimidated, they clam up. And listen, they have a lot to learn, too. They're not perfect. I'm so glad that you mentioned that because I think one of the biggest things in this conversation is changing this dynamic that says that tech and tech leaders, they have all the answers and who are we to question them?

You're not an engineer. You didn't go to Harvard. You're not Mark Zuckerberg or not Elon Musk. Who are you to ask questions? This dynamic that says that you get to make as much money as you want exploiting us and causing chaos and distrust in our communities and we don't get to have a say, that is incorrect. And so I think to your point, everybody should understand. understand their role in this dynamic and reject anything that says, who are you to ask questions? We're the public. That's who we are. And we deserve transparency and accountability and you will not

exploit us to make money. And more specifically, who am I? I am a woman of color who is using your product in a very different way than you do. And frankly, than many of the people who were at the table when this product was created. I'm sure you've encountered the same disinformation and tech space and landscape that I have, which is often white men, self-congratulating other white men. What does it mean for you to be in this fight as a person who was not often represented in these conversations? I think for me it just means going to bat for my community, speaking up for my community from not only a personal, it is personal because I know the black struggle from transatlantic slave trade to now in the United States. And understanding

that whole cultural history and aspect of it. And so for me, it's a personal dynamic, but it's also an informed and culturally competent one that is so very much needed because in these conversations, we often get people that are tasked with fighting disinformation, but not really understanding the cultural aspects and nuances of different communities.

Yeah, I mean, everything you said, I think there's a desperate need for faces, experiences, perspectives like ours at the table. And at the same time, you know, sometimes we need to break the table a little bit. But I wouldn't call myself an expert because we've all lived these experiences of either being targeted by hate campaigns, seeing loved ones, fall victim to it, accidentally falling for disinformation, like all of those things. And so we all are users of this platform, of these various platforms.

We all experience and navigate a world filled with dismiss malinformation. So it's about naming that, pushing our way through gathering in spaces like this. And talking really frankly and honestly about the need for movement building that looks to our past so we can build a better, stronger future and a stronger foundation for, multicultural, multilingual solidarity. So we can counter this disinformation. So for me, this is really a voter suppression issue. I think of disinformation as voter suppression and it's a democracy issue.

So I see it as my way to contribute to voting rights struggles that precede me by, you know, centuries and as my way to contribute to a lot of civil rights struggles. where folks really need to see that you can come here as an immigrant and see a strong democracy that works, that your vote matters, that you should cast a ballot because you can make a difference and you can move your community forward. If you can leave folks listening and watching with one thing, what would it be?

We all have a lot more power than I think we, then it often feels. And I feel like we, as individuals, as a collective, can really make an impact and make some real change when it comes to the issues of disinformation, both within our communities, but also holding those bad actors accountable. Don't let the world telling you, your small, hold you back, because I think there's a lot of work that we all can do together. I would say that your trust is a really valuable commodity.

There's a lot of people out there trying to erode your trust. Why is that? Right? It's a really valuable commodity. So treat it as such and be really careful with where you place it. To follow up with that with trust being a valuable commodity, your actions are a valuable commodity. Your viewpoint on the world, the way you view culture, democracy is valuable. And so I think one of the things that I would leave with people is trying to gain more understanding about how this all works.

but also understanding that there are systems at play and that we have to hold these institutions accountable more so than we would hold the average person accountable because the average person is who is being targeted. Jaya, Liz, Jessica, thank you so much for being here. And thank you for being in this fight, in this work. We're so grateful for you. And thanks to all of you for watching. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangodi.com.

You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.

For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get, your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source,

the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions, about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the Eyeheart.

radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman.

Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion-dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you're. know is somebody coming after me listen to kingdom of fraud on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts this is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human