There Are No Girls on the Internet - DISINFORMED: Why "Jewish Space Lasers" are no laughing matter

Episode Date: February 2, 2021

The internet laughed at Rep. Marjorie Taylor Green's unfounded conspiracy theory that laser beams from space controlled by the Rothschild banking firm caused California's wildfires. Yes, she's ridiculous, but it also shows how dangerous it is when disinfo traffics in lies, distortions, and bias about identity.  Anti-semitic, racist disinformation can spread via memes and other online content. But science communicator and prolific TikToker Abbie Richards is fighting back. Check out Abbie’s conspiracy theory chart: https://twitter.com/abbieasr/status/1312512066071060480 And the Star Wars adaptation: https://twitter.com/JacobsQuest/status/1350868458284724224 Follow Abbie on Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tofology Questions? Comments? Wanna say howdy? [e-mail] Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to Disinformed, a mini-series from There Are No Girls on the Internet. I'm Bridget Todd. If you're anything like me, and sadly, like most Americans, you've probably encountered at least one meme on Facebook pushing disinformation about COVID, the election, or some other issue. This is not a coincidence. Bad actors use easily accessible content on social media like memes, sometimes in spaces that are not explicitly political, to indoctrinate people into believing false information. And it's pretty effective because humor is naturally disarming.

So if the battle of the internet is being waged in memes, currently, the forces for good are losing. But what if there was engaging funny content that pushed media literacy instead of bogus, dangerous claims? That's where 24-year-old Abby Richards comes in. Abby is a science communicator and a prolific TikToker who's gone viral for making content that debunks disinformation and promotes a much-needed skill, digital media literacy. Here's a taste. What's the difference between misinformation and disinformation? What an adorably naive question.

Disinformation? Duh. So what are you? I'm false information that's spread deliberately to cause harm. My goal is to mislead the public. I'm pure evil. Unlike misinformation. You can find Abby's viral chart breaking down conspiracy theories in the show description.

Or a thousand other places across the internet because it went mega viral. Abby's philosophy is that you don't need to be a researcher or an academic to see the ways platforms can spread dangerous misleading content and that we need resources that are accessible and engaging so that everybody can be involved in making the internet a safer, better place. Hi, I'm Abby Richards. I am a science communicator who focuses on climate change, disinformation, and conspiracy theories. I'm also a student. So how do you think disinformation played out on the riots that we saw in D.C. earlier this month?

It's not like a one-to-one, right? It's not like this person lied and now people are. storming the capital. It's been building up like this for years. And it's built into our algorithms. It's built into like the way that we're communicating. It's built into our news ecosystems. Like it's so complex.

And it's been coming like this for so long. And people who have studied it have been saying that like this was inevitable. And I remember like I don't even like professionally study it. I just talk to the experts and then communicate it. And I was like kind of trying to like shout about it this like the last few months. And people were like, oh, I don't know. Seems bad, but we'll be all right. It's baked into our systems that we use to get information.

That there is like we don't have the media literacy that we need. We don't have the digital literacy that we need. We don't have the scientific literacy that we need. need. But like, all of those things together compounding with, like, bad actors who want chaos, they want power, they want chaos, they want to see polarization. Yeah, I mean, you put that so well. I do feel like so many researchers and activists and organizers have been sounding the alarm that something like this could happen for a really long time. Go watch my videos from November. Like, who could have seen it coming? Like, the entire community

that was shouting about it. Like, who do you think? Oh, it's infuriating. Because it's not just the disinformation people, right? It's also the extremism people, the people who, like, study, like, extremist ideologies and the people who study the far right and fascism. They've all been shouting for quite a long time.

And then it really took, like, you know, a bunch of just angry people with false. worldviews storming the Capitol with dangerous intent for finally people to be like, oh, maybe there's a problem. Abby is all about being accessible. It's one of the reasons why her videos about disinformation and media literacy are so mega popular. Rather than publishing in academic journals, she puts her easy to understand educational content

on TikTok where her videos regularly get millions of views. I got TikTok when quarantine started. and I it was March and I got addicted to it and started just kind of like shit posting just like whatever I fucking whatever I felt like but at that point I had figured out that you can communicate so much in such a short period of time in a TikTok if it's done well like the power it has to maybe not teach you know an entire course is worth of information but to plant a seed in the brain And, you know, that person now will remember this little fact or remember this concept and then can go take that and look it up or just like maybe think about it a little bit. Like it has so much power to do that. So I really, really love the platform for that.

So how did you decide to use TikTok to make memes about media literacy and disinformation? Well, it originally happened by accident. It's just something that I always have cared about in the background. I did not know that much about disinformation. Like it was something I knew a little bit about, but not that much. And then having a platform, I just kept getting weird comments, like weird stuff that now I know is Q&N. But at the time, like they were just like spamming my comment section and they didn't understand what's going on.

And then I made the chart that people, they kind of liked it. They liked it a bit. And at the time, I really would not have told you I had any interest in continuing into disinformation work, but I thought it would be fun to continue breaking down my chart. And as I did that, I just kind of got further and further into the world of disinformation and misinformation and misinformation and conspiracy theories in general. and got linked with experts and realized that there weren't any major people. I realized that I did not see very many people doing the sort of communication that I was looking for.

So I just started doing that type of communication. My background is a little bit similar to yours. In my nine to five day job, I work on issues like platform accountability and trading folks to spot disinformation trying to make social media platform. curb disinformation on their platforms. And, you know, I didn't go to school for this. I am not an academic. I am not someone who has studied this

at an academic setting whatsoever. And when I saw your TikTok, I realized we have this great need for resources that are not just educational, but also engaging and fun and just easy to consume. I definitely saw that there was a big void as far as just like some lighthearted communication discussing this. And plus,

I mean, I'm getting my master's degree right now, but like I will shit on academia all day. Like they gate keep. They keep their gates up and like they will use language that nobody understands. They don't understand it. Like it's overly dense. It's very difficult to get a big picture a lot of the times. You can't read an article and just take away one big picture in the way that a TikTok can. Obviously, nuance is so important.

Like I'm not trying to like cancel academia, but there was no bridge from those complex articles and big like, you know, Twitter AI investigations of like word usage. and the people who had to like watch their family fall down the Q&on rabbit hole. Like there was no connection. Abby was looking for funny engaging content that debunked this information, but couldn't find any. So she decided to start making it herself. Working with the designer called Anti-Conspiracy Memoirs, Abby created the conspiracy theory chart, a really great breakdown of all different levels of conspiracy,

which you can check out on the show description. At the bottom of the chart, it's just a lot of the chart. starts with things that sound like conspiracies, but are actually grounded in events that actually happened, like the fact that the FBI spied on John Lennon, or that big tobacco companies lied about cigarettes causing cancer. Then, moving up the chart, the topics become progressively less grounded in reality and veer into dangerous, anti-Semitic white supremacist territory. Like believing the furniture company Wayfair is sex trafficking children they sold in cabinets online, that Bill Gates is microchipping people with vaccines, or that Antifa started forest fires in California.

her chart went mega viral, and it was a really useful tool to demonstrate how easy it is to go from having some questions about something to believing something truly dangerous. People have even adapted it to explain other kinds of conspirator thinking, like the one that breaks down unfounded Star Wars fandom speculations. So tell me about this chart. Where did it come from?

Oh, my God, I was talking to a boy on Tinder, and as all good origin stories start, I was, I was, yeah, we were talking on Tinder and I was carrying the conversation. No. Typical, typical. And I was like, so, like, which conspiracy theory, like you had to believe in one, would you believe in? And it took us to, we were talking about all the different types of conspiracies.

And I was like, this is ridiculous. Like, it would be so fun to believe in lizard people and, like, hollow earth. But I know that they're anti-Semitic. I was like, so I can't. And also, like, there needs to be some sort of, like, there needs to be levels. There needs to be an acceptable place at which you should stop. But, like, there also needs to be just categorization. And I drew it, and I sent it to my dad.

And I sent it to, like, a couple friends, and they liked it, and I posted it on TikTok. And I had a very small account at that point because I had just started a new one. and it like slowly kind of blew up there. Yeah, I saw it everywhere. Even this morning somebody showed me a Star Wars adaptation of your chart. Someone, yes, they changed it to fit Star Wars' like fandom beliefs, I think is what it is. And it's gorgeous. Yeah, they did a nice job.

You know, something that I love about your chart is that it starts with these things that actually are grounded in reality. Things that we know actually did happen. Like big tobacco lying about cigarettes called. in cancer or the NSA spying on American citizens or the Tuskegee experiments. You know, these are situations where people with power actually did abuse that power and lie to us. So it's not like people, especially people who are already marginalized, don't have a reason to be skeptical.

But, you know, just because powerful people lie and abuse that power does not give you license to just believe any conspiracy theory that's out there on the internet. Why was it important to you to include things that actually happened in your chart? First of all, they did happen. And I'm not trying to, like, say that all conspiracies as a whole are completely impossible. The conspiracies are a real type of crime. Conspiracy theories are usually preposterous. Nobody was looking at Tuskegee and thinking, like, I bet it's a secret group underground who are, like, drinking blood.

Like, no, like, people with power abuse their power all the time. And that should be recognized. And those fears, those anxieties about that happening are super, super valid. And I think that that's a really good way to show of what it actually looks like when people lie and people abuse their power versus what it looks like when you imagine your worst enemy of a weird, suspiciously evil super group of Jews. Like, those are very different images. In 2018, while California was being ravaged by wildfires, Marjorie Taylor Green, now a Georgia congressional representative, said in a now-deleted Facebook post that the cause could have been

laser beams from space controlled by the Rothschild International Banking firm. Now, this is obviously not true and is so ridiculous, but it's also really messed up. It's an anti-Semitic lie. People have been telling about Jewish people since the 19th. that they're somehow controlling the banks on the weather and not to be trusted. And it's also a key plank of disinformation. Disinformation relies on the worst stereotypes and biases about marginalized people,

and we need to recognize how often these same marginalized people become the scapegoat who's to blame for all life's ills, saying Jewish people control the banks or blaming wildfires on Black Lives Matter activists. These things aren't just dangerous because they're untrue, anti-Semitic, and racist. They're also dangerous because they distract us. from the real problems. Yeah, that's their, that's their currency. It's their currency.

It's like, they're like, oh, like, do you feel, do you feel nervous? Do you feel anxious? Do you feel like out of control? Like, there's something you can't answer. Man, like, wouldn't it be so great if you had a scapegoat right now? Like, you know, maybe a group that you didn't understand. Like, it's, they're there to answer a question. They're the most simple answer to a question.

So, yes, they very much will consistently find the group that is the other that is to blame. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

The worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right?

That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open to change. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle aged. One erection. Listen to you. Humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business.

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That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them

and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star label. Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeke. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front

of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. So before I worked on these kinds of issues, I might have called myself like a casual appreciator of conspiracy theories. I enjoyed a late night Wikipedia rabbit hole. You I liked reading about how maybe John Badey Ramsey wasn't actually dead that she grew up to be Katie Perry. I could get behind all of that. And I think I thought of myself as kind of appreciating conspiracy theories kind of ironically.

And, you know, with your work in conspiracy theory, you seem like someone who is actually sort of interested in conspiracy theories, how they spread, why people get involved in them. And I wonder, do you think people get indoctrinated by conspiracy theory by just sort of being interested in them? and before they know it, they're actually true believers? Oh, yeah. I think in a lot of ways, it's very similar to, like, the way we see, like, these alt-right boys on 4chan experimenting with, like, testing using hateful language. And then they'll be, like, I'm joking. And I think there's a couple of things going on there.

one would be you're testing what it when they do it when they do when they say something racist or sexist or anti-Semitic or hateful in general and then they say that they're joking that they're really doing in a lot of ways is seeing what it sounds like to say it it's a test like they can do it in a space where let's see how the reaction is like let's gauge what this feels like for me to say this. I would think conspiracy kind of just like, ha ha, it's ironic. Like, depending on the person. Like, for some people, it might truly just be ironic and they can sit there. For other people, it might not be. Like,

I certainly cannot make that call. But the other thing to take into account, and this is especially important with misinformation, disinformation, is something called the illusory truth effect, which is essentially that the more you see something, the more your brain thinks it's true. And that is not avoidable with any

amount of education. Like, that is your brain because what you see is like, and what information you take in constructs your reality. So if you continue to see false information and you continue to like read conspiracies, like that could certainly have an effect on how you interpret the world. Priming people to understand the kind of disinformation they might encounter. is one of the best ways to inoculate them from its impact. So it's critical that people understand media literacy and take responsibility for understanding the kind of content they consume online.

But we can't discount that tech leaders have allowed dangerous falsehoods, extremist content, and radicalization to spread on their platforms. And because of the nature of algorithms, forever prioritizing content that gets lots of clicks and impressions, inflammatory or misleading content thrives on social media if companies don't enforce moderation policies. Oh my God, social media companies have so much work to do.

I have so much work to do. Like I could show up here with just like a list of like, they need you to do this and this and this and like, oh, God, they're a mess. And I really hope that collectively people are holding them accountable for the position that we are in right now as a country because they are very much a large part of the problem. What other steps would you like to see platforms do to crack down on misinformation and disinformation? I want to see people who are people in accounts that are spreading disinformation. Like we have like, you know, we have disinformation super spreaders, the people who are spreading the most of it.

Like take them down, deplatform them, which they've started doing, you know, after the insurrection. But I want to stress it took an insurrection. But they could be doing a lot more to make sure that they are pushing good information first and prioritizing the quality of that information over the watch time of the user. And they currently are not because they're incentivized by how much money they can make on ad bread of a new. But that would be huge. They need to be pushing accounts that are promoting media literacy, like talking about disinformation, educating. They should be pushing all of those.

And then for more, you're going to have to go to people who are much smarter than me. The problem goes further than individual platforms. We need a radical reimagining of how we think about what platforms can be. What would it look like to have a social media platform that didn't just measure success by scale or clicks or how much time we all spent with our faces at a screen. What would it look like to center actual people or care or empathy?

I would absolutely love to see like a people first, like ethical social media company come up, but I am a little bit too pessimistic at the moment. It's not looking great. Like I want someone to come forward with tons of money to create this platform that'll be like our perfect socialist platform. That's another question I have for you. And it's kind of a tough one for me.

You know, I live in D.C. So when the attacks on the Capitol happened, they were not just attacks on democracy. They were attacks on my community, my town, my city. And I really kind of struggled with this duality of, one, wanting the people that storm the capital to face all the repercussions that they deserve that they have coming to them. And two, really seeing the ways that they have been misled. a lot of times for profit. You know, moneyed social media platforms

made even more money by misleading them. So I really struggled with finding a balance between wanting these people to be fully held accountable and acknowledging the powerful, wealthy, moneyed forces at play that lied to them and got us here. You know, how can we hold these two realities at the same time? Ooh, it's tough. That's a tough one. I'm glad that you're, like, definitely there

with, like, doing both, because I've seen a lot of people who aren't ready to have the discussion at all that these people have been manipulated. And that's really, it's difficult because it's a hard discussion to have, right? Like, we're angry. For me, I think, like, a lot of them are victims of this misinformation. They're essentially pawns in, like, a much bigger game. that does not excuse their actions. Like they still, if you break the law, like you still have to pay those consequences.

But as a society, I think focusing on the narrative of like these specific people are bad is a waste of time. Because it's like it's a distraction. It's not focusing on the problem. Do I want to hang out with them? No. Absolutely not. If they're arrested, that's probably for the best. That's good.

But I think that we have a much bigger problem to be discussing more so than just individuals here. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriters, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

There's that worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right?

That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. since you guys are middle-aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me.

I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's. twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business.

Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-I-Hart. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness,

professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. from the WMBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you,

but don't ever feel like you don't feel like. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs, Gabby Thomas, and Katie Ladeki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. at our level at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world.

Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Let's get right back into it. It can be really tough in the aftermath of everything that happened at the Capitol.

to really remember that it is not just about these individual people that storm the Capitol, but it is really about larger systems and larger forces at play. And having those conversations is really critical. If every person who physically stormed the Capitol got locked up, we would still have these problems to contend with in our society about how we got there in the first place. Yeah. Your information constructs your reality.

If you're getting false information, your reality is false. when you add in like QAnon specifically, now we have an apocalyptic internet religion who believes when they storm that capital that the storm will happen in the apocalyptic. It's apocalyptic. They don't, they did not necessarily think about what would happen. Again, not an excuse for their actions, but something that like makes it a little bit easier, I think, to try and think about the big picture. So I know somebody who is a involved in Cuban on. Her flavor of Cuban on is definitely the kind of save the children, heavy scare quotes around that vibe, where she genuinely believes that this kind of thinking is in opposition to this, you know, network of evil people who are exploiting and abusing children. Obviously that is untrue, but that is what she clearly believes. And so I think for her, you know, there's not really a way to say this for I don't sound like an asshole, but she's not someone who I would describe as having a lot in her. her life to make her life feel meaningfully full. And thinking of it from her perspective,

I can imagine that when she posts these things about like not believing the media and not being a sheep and, you know, not just believing what they say on CNN, she's probably being validated. She probably feels like people are agreeing with her. When people don't agree with her, she probably thinks that probably makes her feel even more validated. And so I feel like one aspect of this that we don't often talk about is that for a lot of these people, I almost feel like it offers a kind of community where there was not community for them before. And for her, I do feel like it's given her life a new kind of meaning that it didn't have before. Unfortunately, that that cause and that meeting just happens to be disgusting and abhorrent

and dangerous. Yeah, not the best choice. Could have been better. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, what, like, you've just nailed it. Like, that is one of, that is essentially how most people get into this. It's, it's, if you don't necessarily have, like, a strong sense of self or you're, especially if you're in the middle of a crisis, right? So a lot of people who fall into conspiracy thinking in general and, like, go down the rabbit hole, that'll happen when they're at a crisis point or when there's, like, been a dramatic shift in their life. I don't know, maybe a global pandemic.

I don't know. We're just naming some. And which also means that, yes, they go in there for the sense of community. Yes, they're going in there because they feel smart, right? It's a flattering experience to believe that you're in on something that nobody else knows about, especially with something like Save the Children. It just gave like all the moms, just all of them something to do, like something. to care about, something to focus on, especially with COVID going on, right?

Like the world's scary and now, like, here's something very specific that you can do to fix the world. Never mind the fact that it's making it worse and everybody is begging you to stop. Everybody in the trafficking world is begging you to stop. But yeah, it gives you that sense of purpose, which is why if you're trying to help somebody get out, one of the best things you can do is try and help them refine their purpose outside of that narrative. Yeah, I mean, another good point there is that people who do anti-sex trafficking work, universally they talk about how QAnon and save the children and all that stuff is making their jobs that much harder.

So if you actually genuinely cared about protecting children, getting involved in Q&N and this kind of stuff is actually doing the opposite of that because you're making the jobs of people who actually prevent that kind of thing that much harder. There are ways to be active in that work, but choosing to do so in a way where you're suggesting that it's more likely that there's this huge global network of people drinking blood and shipping babies overseas through websites and all of that, as opposed to the fact that children are more likely to be exploited by someone they're. know a family member, it just denies reality in service of focusing on this horrible fantasy they've created. Yeah, because it's a story. It's a game. Like they, it's, it's so much more fun, right, to be like, oh, yeah, no, they're sending the children around in cabinets than it is to be like, yeah, you're statistically more likely to be abused in your house than anywhere else. Like, that's a way better evil to try and cope with, of like, or way easier evil is like, oh, it's not, it's not the people I know when, like, you know, years of trauma and abuse cycles carrying out and, like, an oppressive heteronormative society and, like, a church that, like, that, like, is also heteronormative society. it oppressive and like, you know, all of these things. Or it could be them. Yeah, I mean,

who wants to read a bunch of boring-ass books about unpacking your trauma or, like, go to therapy when you can just blame the Jews or the blacks or the gays? Only it's easier. Like, it's just, ah, like, why would you look at the intersectional complex, like, narrative of reality when it could be a nightmare? So what are some other ways to help? folks off board off of this kind of ideology. Oh, boy. Right now there's a lot of people asking that. And like there's certain things that we do know, right? Like there's ways to talk to them. Definitely, like, as best as you possibly can, like stay compassionate and stay respectful. I mean, you can be honest and tell them whether or not you believe in something. You don't have to like pretend to believe in

something, but insulting them, mocking them is like not going to help. And it'll just like push them further into their belief and into their community who will then just heighten their beliefs. So figure out what they believe in, figure out what your common ground is when you're talking to them. Be like, all right. So like, do we agree that COVID exists? Like let's start there and work our way either backwards or forwards. And, you know, if they're really, like, gone, like, help them find their way back by, like, helping them figure out who they are, you know, outside of this religion that they've been scooped into, do they have hobbies?

Do they have kids that they care about? Like, what are they passionate about? Who are they at their core? What are their goals? What are their desires? Those sorts of things. That's the kind of thinking that helps someone get out of that constant panic of conspiracies. That's really useful.

You know, another thing I love about your work is that you talk about the need to start media literacy early, like with children. When do you think it's too early to start talking to kids? about media literacy. Kids today completely understand how to navigate the internet. And what they don't understand necessarily to go along with that is what a good source is. Like, I think media literacy should be taught throughout school as you age at like the age appropriate level. You know, you don't have to be like to a five-year-old, be like so Russian intelligence. Yeah, you're like talking to a five-year-old about a Senate inquiry. You're like, so this is this is a troll. You're like, here, have you seen 4chan?

Here, look at that. No, I'm not trying to traumatize children, but, like, I think, like, media literacy in general should just be, like, a mandatory skill for people in this world, more so than memorizing something ever for a test, right? Like, it's so much more important that we're teaching kids how to navigate the Internet safely and get genuine, like, helpful information,

than it is that we're, like, wasting their time, having them memorize things that they will never need to know. Yeah, listen, I mean, I remember being in school and doing a whole unit on square dancing. I kind of feel like if I could go back in time, I would like to learn something that would actually stick with me and be applicable for my actual life, like media literacy, maybe save the square dancing.

What about, like, a better dance than square dancing? I just want to throw that out there. anything else. Like, teach me to fox trot. Now, debunking disinformation is not the only thing Abby uses her TikTok for. She's also studied climate and the environment, which led her to initially going viral on the platform for her videos about how much she hates golf.

Kind of by accident. Here she is talking about her deep hatred for golf while cooking. I'm running for president. I'm going to be a single-issue candidate. When I become president, I will make golf illegal. All golf courses will become. public parks. All country clubs will become low-income housing. We take all the water that we would have used to water the golf courses and we drink it. Now we're like the best hydrated country on the

planet. We all have gorgeous skin. And anyone caught golfing gets eaten. Are you still here? Just making a salad. Nothing crazy. Just a Caesar. It's just going to put the rich on top. So you came to prominence on TikTok for your videos about how much you hate golf. How did these videos come to be? Ha, I just hate it, dude. I hate golf. Okay, okay. I was, it was like quarantine still, like pretty early days. Like, you know when it like smells like nostalgia and you're like, oh, early quarantine?

Like then. And I was on a run because I was still convinced I could do that. I was running through a golf course and I was not supposed to. It was like no trespassing up everywhere. And I was like, this is so stupid. I hate golf. Like I did my undergrad in environmental science. And I hated golf then too.

And I was like, this is just such a waste of everything and just symbolizes like everything that's wrong with the world. And I had like no following at the time. And I went home and I was like, I don't know. I'll just like post this video of me chopping lettuce talking about how I'm going to run for president to make golf illegal. And that anyone who plays golf gets eaten. I think that that is a fair punishment. I've never really thought about the environmental impact of golf. Can you tell me more about this?

Yeah, definitely. I mean, they are wasteful in their space, right? Like, we've all thought about how it could be housing. It could be farmland. It could just be a park. But they're also using tremendous amounts of water, especially in, like, desert states, right? Like the amount of water in California or Arizona or November. Nevada that is being used to water golf courses is ridiculous.

There's a common misconception that golf, there's a common misconception that so golf is to be in nature. And that's very much not true, right? It's very manufactured. It's just like a giant board game that you drive across. And all, like, it's all perfectly turfed and everything has to match their, like, rich person aesthetic. And to do that, not only are you dumping tons of water on there and constantly irrigating

it, but you're like dumping tons of pesticides and fertilizers on. Things that are very much required for growing food, but also have consequences environmentally. So they're going to run off. They're not going to stay on that grass. They're going to run off into water sources. They're going to run off into other ecosystems. The fertilizers in particular will run off into bodies of water and cause eutrophication, which is what leads to ocean dead zones and what can lead – well, basically you get like a big algae bloom and then you get a dead zone.

And yeah, I just think that I really hate them. Okay, well, let me ask you this. You've got a magic wand. You can get rid of one thing. information or goth. Which one are you going with? I'm not a sociopath. Obviously, I'm going with disinformation. Like, oh my God, this girl had the opportunity to fix the world. But she was like, no, I get rid of the fake sport. Like, I was just curious. That's what I thought you were going to say. I had a feeling. I'm glad you think so highly of faith.

So what are you working on debunking next? I'm still breaking down TikTok, right? Or breaking down Q&ON. So if people are interested in that, I am doing a several-part series that is explaining Q&ON to the common person, to the normie, if you will, that is informed by experts in the field. So if that's something that they're interested in, that is on all of my platforms. My TikTok is Tofology. My Instagram is Abby S-R, A-B-B-B-I-E-S-R, and my Twitter is Abby-A-S-R, A-B-B-I-E-A-S-R. Thank you so much for being here today, Abby.

You know, I spend so much time talking about pretty dark shit conspiracy cults and disinformation and all of this dark, heavy stuff on the Internet, but you bring such a lightness and accessibility and humor to this work. So really thank you for what you're doing. Thanks. I'm trying, but yeah. Yeah, it definitely gets dark. sometimes, so it's better to just, like, say it with a big grin on your face, and people are like,

all right, then. If you enjoyed this podcast, please help us grow by subscribing. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi. We'd love to hear from you at hello at tangoity.com. Disinformed is brought to you by There Are No Girls on the Internet. It's a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our supervising producer and engineer.

Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. For more great podcasts, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

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