There Are No Girls on the Internet - eBay CEO Devin Wenig Orchestrated a Criminal Stalking Campaign and Walked Away With $57 Million

Episode Date: May 26, 2026

This is the 2nd episode of a 2-part series about a case where security goons from eBay travelled across the country to stalk and harass a husband-wife journalist duo. If you haven't listened to part 1 yet, you probably should. We published it on May 19, 2026.   For over two decades, the pair have been publishing EcommerceBytes, a respected trade publication for eBay sellers. But in 2019, someone started harassing them. It began with a spray painted fence, then quickly escalated to death threats and fetal pigs and a mysterious van outside their house. Eventually, they discovered that eBay's own security team was behind it all, with the campaign put into motion by then-CEO Devin Wenig. This bizarre and frightening story is a cautionary tale about the rise of private armies. It starts in San Francisco, takes us to the small community of Natick, Massachusetts, and ultimately takes TANGOTI listeners right back to Madison Square Garden. Buckle up.      Let us know what you think by emailing [e-mail] or leaving a comment on Spotify.    Bridget's forthcoming audiobook with Simon & Schuster, Love At First Prompt, explores AI, sex, and intimate relationships. Pre-order at LoveAtFirstPrompt.ai Follow Bridget: Instagram | TikTok | YouTube | BlueskySee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Search Joy 101 and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby is presented by CBS. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of I-Hartreport. I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Last week, we were talking about one of the wildest tech stories I have ever heard about. This is a two-part episode, so this is part two. If you missed part one, you should listen to that first.

To catch you up, though, we've got a husband and wife in Natick, Massachusetts. Ina and David Steiner, who, for the last 20 years, ran a small newsletter, covering eBay called e-commerce bites. It's a trade publication, a trusted source for the kind of small sellers who depend on knowing how eBay works as a platform. And in 2019, eBay CEO, David Wenig, under pressure from an activist investor threatening his job, decided that Aina Steiner needed to be, in the words of his chief communications officer Steve Weimer, crushed.

Wenig texted back, quote, take her down. So Weimer escalated that to eBay's head of security, a man named Jim Ba, former CIA, National Clandestine Service, with instructions to, quote, do whatever it takes, and a promise that he wanted to see ashes. Producer Mike, what followed is one of the most unhinged corporate harassment campaigns in American history. You know it's bad when the plan has an actual code name, in this case. the White Knight strategy, designed to terrorize the signers into outing an anonymous source while eBay breathed in as their fake savior. The things that they're doing to terrorize this poor couple that their big crime was running this eBay newsletter was graffitting their fence, sending them hundreds of disturbing newsletter subscriptions, death threats, sending a book to David called How to Grieve the

loss of a spouse and a funeral reef, which they understandably understood as a death threat, sending them live cockroaches, live spiders, a bloody pig mask, sending pornographic magazines with their name on it to their neighbors, posting their address online with invitations to sex parties, physical surveillance from a rented van, and an attempted break-in to install a GPS tracker on their car. Jim Ba, eBay's head of security, didn't do this with like a hard, hardened, grizzled team of operatives. He did it with a team of mostly young women who he called Jim's Angels,

who he, according to a former staffer's testimony, systematically broke down through course of control, sexual harassment, and sleep deprivation. That's a bit of a refresher of where we've been. Bridget, that was an impressively brief recap of everything that we covered in that first episode. Thank you. So where we left off, the whole thing had unraveled because David Steiner, while he was being followed by a mysterious van, photographed the license plate of that van after all this harassment had been ramping up.

The police were able to track the full license plate of that van to a 25-year-old eBay intelligence analyst named Veronica Z, who had been flown in from San Jose specifically to terrorize this couple in their husband. hometown. I don't know if it's just me, but I feel like there is something inherently unsettling about being followed by a mysterious band. Oh, what's funny is, I'm not even sure I would realize if I was being followed by a van. You'd just be like, oh, there's a lot of vans out here. Yeah. I guess part of it is living in some place walkable. I don't drive a ton. So I think that people who drive a lot, I would notice if I was being followed by a person on foot. If I was driving my car and being followed by a van, I'm honestly not even sure I would notice. That's not, now someone's going to be like, ooh, I want to get to Bridget.

Just get her while she's driving. She's not going to know the difference. She's going to be hitting curbs and drinking iced coffee. She's not going to know what's the one. You're right, though. You typically walk. So if they were following you in a van, they'd be cruising along at like two and a half miles an hour,

like walking speed, which would be highly suspicious. They'd be getting honked at. People would be getting out to fight them. Yes, yes, yes. even as the police were traveling to this hotel to find the person who rented this van, this 25-year-old eBay analyst, the stream of threatening tweets against the Steiner's continued. So even as the police were physically closing in on the culprits, this harassment was continuing to ramp up on social media.

So I had said earlier how had I been the Steiner's of all the different people in my landscape, people that I work with, people that I've met, people that I disengaged with on the street, people I might have cut off in traffic or something. I would have thought that one of those people might be the culprit before I ever thought it would be eBay. I would be so surprised. And that is exactly what Ena Steiner said. She said that when she found out that eBay was behind all of this, she told 60 Minutes,

quote, I don't know. I can't describe how flabbergasted we were. eBay? I mean, what was an eBay employee? doing at a rental van following David. Harassment. They were doing harassment. Yeah, covert harassment and criminal behavior.

So you know how they say it's not the crime, it's the cover up? Yeah, I've heard that. It seems really relevant these days. Yes. So when law enforcement came knocking, Jim Baugh, eBay's head of security, did not cooperate. He made false statements to police. He and his team deleted digital evidence. He even falsified.

records to throw investigators off of the trail. All of this is confirmed and sourced directly from the Department of Justice and eBay's own admission of facts. Jim Ball made false statements to both police and internal investigators. During the 60 Minutes episode about all of this, an attorney representing the Steiner said that Steve Weimer deleted his text messages related to this harassment campaign even after everybody involved and everybody at eBay had been notified that, you know, a criminal investigation was going on and that they, needed to preserve everything. Their attorney said, quote,

that's an obstruction of justice. If I did that, I'd be sitting in a jail cell somewhere right now. I'm not an attorney, but I've seen enough TV crime dramas to know that you can't just like delete evidence after you've become aware that an investigation is happening.

Like, you can try, but if they catch you, that's like an extra crime on top of your original crimes. Well, I think you can. were a higher-up at eBay because that's exactly what these dudes did. And not all of them faced charges for it. Speaking of consequences, what about the higher-ups who gave the orders here? So let's start at the top and work our way down, shall we? Let's start with David Weddick, the CEO of eBay, who texted, Take Her Down. He was not criminally charged. He resigned from eBay in September

2019, right as all of this was coming to light. And he left eBay in disgrace. You know, he left holding a box with all of his, like, awards and trophies sticking out of it. It was a real shameful display. Nobody at eBay wanted anything to do with him. He was just really disgraced. Oh, oh, wait, sorry. That's actually not what happened.

What happened is that he walked away with a separation package worth approximately $57 million. Oh, my God. You had me going for a minute. I was going to be like, okay, that's a good. good image him walking away with like a sad box of trophies. But no, it was all just a fiction. It was misdirect. Bridget, you have played with my heart.

It was a sad box that had $57 million in it. That's not that sad of a box. Talk about a golden parachute. His lawyer said that that take it down text was taken out of context and that he meant take her down via, I don't know, like lawful actions. Oh, like take her down to Orlando. and show her a good time at Disney World. Like, take care of her?

You know that line from Pulp Fiction? I'm going out of town for a few days and I want you to take care of my wife. Take care of? No, take care of. Show her a good time. For listeners who are not watching the video, Bridget simulated holding a gun to her head,

implying that perhaps Marcellus Wallace wanted him to murder his wife, but he didn't. He just wanted them to take her out dancing. So were a good time. Steve Weimer. eBay's chief communications officer who said that he wanted to, quote, see ashes, was also not criminally charged, but he was fired from eBay for cause. He also said that his texts were mischaracterized and taken out of context. Side note, whenever somebody has, I mean, you know, it's my favorite thing in the world when there's incriminating text and you get to read through the text. And I'll read everyone. I want to read every email. I will thumbs to her. I'm like, oh, my Lord, that is incriminating. I love when they say, and you get to read through the text. I love when they say, and I'll read every email. I'll read everyone. I want to read every email. I'll thumb to her. I'm like, oh, oh my Lord, oh my Lord, I love when they say, oh, no, no, no, you don't understand.

It was taken out of context. I always wonder, what is it in, like, what's the context? What was it in context? What did he said he wanted to see ashes? What's the context that would help me understand? Like, put it in context for me. Yeah, what is that context? He wanted to take her for a nice fire and make s'mores.

And then there's this third executive, the original coverage, really didn't mention a lot, named Wendy Jones. She was eBay Senior Vice President of Global Operations, and the court documents show that Baugh kind of kept her in the loop throughout this whole harassment campaign. He would copy her or CC her on messages and that she would just respond with a thumbs up emoji, which I got to say I actually kind of low-key respect.

You know, at least she isn't typing out good crimes. Sounds good. Great details of the crimes. Count me in. Great crimes. Keep up the illegal harassment campaign. I approve of this harassment campaign. I mean, it's not great, obviously,

but at least there's some plausible deniability there. Yeah, like some recognition that what she's doing is illegal and unethical, and she does not want to be explicitly implicated in it. I always wonder, have these people never heard of a goddamn phone call, where instead of going into, take her down, let's see, ashes, now's the time to strike. If you're going to be having conversations about this, just do it over the phone.

These people and people like them in these positions just feel invincible. They can't even imagine a scenario where they would face consequences for their actions. I will say I just said that people should talk on the phone about their incriminating conversations. Phone calls can be taped. I add that because as much as I love reading incriminating emails and text messages, nothing excites me more than specifically listening to a recorded phone conversation where one person does not know they're being recorded and the other does. Oh, inject it right into my veins.

There's one where Mel Gibson's ex-wife recorded him saying all manner of abusive things. He is like foaming at the mouth and like panting with rage. And because she knows it's being recorded and people are going to hear it, she's so calm to everything that he says. There's just something about it when you're like, well, he does not know he is being recorded right now. You made the point that, you know, when we're talking about the high level eBay folks,

the one woman who was at that level, obviously Baugh had his angels who were, you know, junior level analysts and stuff like that. But of the higher up folks, the one woman in the mixed, I almost wonder if she could imagine a scenario where this might blow up in her face. And so that's why she wasn't being very forthcoming in the text messages and was just giving thumbs up emojis.

Yeah, I do not think it's an accident that the one executive in this story who did not put in writing a bunch of incriminating shit was a woman, right? Like, I have to imagine that being a woman executive at that level just comes with a different level of risk. And to be able to succeed at that level requires an awareness of that risk and like a sensitivity to. operational security that these dudes apparently did not have. Maybe it's because they thought they were going specifically after a woman that made them feel all the more invincible. It was just really sloppy of them to put so much of this stuff in their text messages. Although I guess for Weimer, it didn't even matter, right? Like he just, as you said, he deleted his text messages after he was notified that an investigation was happening and so didn't suffer any consequences. So

Maybe they're not totally off base. To be fair, those text messages were taken out of context anyway. Had he not deleted them, you need to see the full context to understand what he meant. He was rehearsing for a play. The context, yeah. Wendy, that senior vice president who only communicated about this via thumbs up emojis, was not criminally charged. She wasn't fired.

She kept her job at eBay for over a year after this whole thing became public. And when she finally did leave in December of 2020, she left with a severance package of more than $20 million total. A retired law professor summed it up perfectly when he told a reporter about this whole thing, the people below you go to jail and you walk. It's nice to be the boss. That pretty much sums it up.

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So let's talk about Jim Baugh, former head of security for eBay, the sort of architect of this whole thing. Because he really tells a very different story. His lawyers argued that he faced relentless pressure from Wenig and other executives to handle this Steiner problem. And that he was given what the civil lawsuit describes as, quote, Cartblanche authority to terminate the Steiner's reporting by whatever means necessary. Little side note, Mike laughed on the video feed when I said this because this is like a little joke between us. If you've ever had the displeasure of watching probably one of the worst shows I have ever seen, HBO's The Idol that stars The Weekend.

There is a scene in the show where he, The Weekend, who is a terrible actor, the show is terrible. He pronounces the phrase carte blanche, carte blanche. And I always say, this is how I know the weekend sucks in real life, because the fact that nobody corrected him, they just like let him say carte blanche to me is like, okay, everyone hates you. That's become a little bit of a running joke between us to the point where we pronounce it, Cartier Blanche, and I almost said carte blanche as I was reading that quote.

I think I drafted some other thing for you earlier this week, and I specifically used the phrase carte blanche because I wanted to trick you into saying Carte Blanche. If you ever hear me say Carte Blanche on the podcast, I know it's pronounced carte blanche. It's just like, it's how I say it now. Let's talk about Baugh. His story is so interesting because we talked about these executives

and how they're shielded from accountability and constant. And I feel like he's kind of right at that middle management level where I have to imagine that he thought he was one of them in terms of being able to do whatever illegal shit he wanted without consequences. But then once the authorities came knocking, he was the first one offered up to be thrown under the bus. Yeah, what a terrible way to find out. You go this whole thing thinking it's us against that. And then you find out, wait a minute, I'm not part of the us. I'm part of the them. I'm just on the outs. You know, it's like that George Carlin bit. It's a big club and you ain't in it. And I have to imagine that he probably did think that he was one of the top guys was going to be protected like these other top guys were. And then come to find out, I'm simply a goon to them. I'm simply a hired goon to them. I am someone that they can throw to the wolves. They have actually intentionally. insulated themselves from consequences and set it up so that I am the one who is putting everything into motion and I am the one who is absorbing all of all the consequences, even though I'm doing

this, if you take him at his word, at their direction. Because when this whole thing collapsed, Baugh alleged that an army of outside lawyers immediately descended onto eBay to conduct an internal investigation, one that, if you believe him, was designed not to find the truth, but to save the company and its top executives from prosecution. So basically, if you believe him, they essentially directed him to do this illegal behavior. And as soon as it was found out, they all had internal eBay machinations to protect them from any kind of consequences and basically send his ass to jail. Thumbs up emoji. Have at it, bra. Go to our illegal bidding. We're just going to be back here raking in the tens of millions of dollars of severance.

The way I would never do a legal behavior for a day job, like a nine to five day job, this is why I feel like this story. It's hard for me to put myself in the shoes of someone like Jim Ba, where you just have this job. You know, you don't own eBay. You're not like, if eBay does super well financially, it's not like you're going to see more money. Your salary is your salary, I assume. it's hard for me to be like, yeah, I'll risk serious jail time for this nine to five job.

I simply cannot imagine it. I've been trying to put my finger on exactly what it is about this story that's so weird. And it is exactly that it's not just the idea that these people would engage in illegal harassment or whatever. Like that's not cool, but like I can imagine people doing that sort of stuff. People do terrible stuff like that all the time. But the thing that makes it so weird is that they were like salary. employees. They got W-2s. They probably had health insurance, right? Like they had an office they clocked into, you know, they probably had annual evaluations and HR people following up on them.

And that is the context in which they were doing off the books and legal stuff where they were covering their trail. I don't even want to show up to the office in person. You think I'm going to jail for this company? You got another thing coming. That'll be like a new workplace trend that they talk about in Forbes, like quiet serving time. Yeah. Goons are doing this new trend. Instead of quiet quaying, they're quiet serving time. Stay up with the hottest goon trends.

So eBay's own internal investigation, the one that if you believe Jim Baugh was basically not a real investigation at all, was just meant to protect the company and the executives, concluded, well, wouldn't you know it? that the CEO, Wenig, while his tone was improper and unacceptable, they found no evidence that he directed any of the criminal acts. So that is very convenient. Isn't that convenient? Like, this guy sounds like such an asshole, but I do almost have to feel sorry for him because it just seems like he was so naive to be, like, shocked, shocked

that the company's internal investigation was designed to protect the company and not him, just some, like, peon foot soldier who was clearly disposable to the company. I don't want to keep connecting it to Trump, but I see that in Trump one. When do you look at the way that Trump uses people for their value or for a specific purpose and then so quickly throws them under the bus? I do not understand how people don't realize,

well, clearly it's only a matter of time until I'm being thrown under the bus. Like, this is what they do. So let's keep it moving. zoom out from and let's move up the chain to the people who are giving the orders and the company, eBay, like how unusual is it for a company like this

to be running these kinds of activities? Are there other examples? I'm glad you asked because this is not unique. Let's zoom out for a second. I think it would be very easy to hear a story like this and think eBay is a uniquely toxic and deranged company and

former CEO, Devin Wenig, is a uniquely vindictive leader. This is an anomaly. But you would be wrong because this is not an anomaly. I mentioned this in our first installment of this episode, but while I was reporting this episode, I just kept coming back in my mind to this wired piece about Madison Square Garden that we talked about at a news roundup a few weeks ago,

about the owner of the New York Knicks basketball team, a man named James Dolan. And I want to talk about it here because when you read that piece and then you look into what happened with eBay, the architecture is nearly identical and there are so many overlap. So Dolan, like Wenig, has a personal enemies list. He has watch lists of basketball fans who have dared to criticize the management of his team. His security team blocked a graphic designer from attending a concert at Madison Square Garden because years earlier, that designer had printed and sold half a dozen that said ban Dolan.

He banned an entire law firm's worth of lawyers from his venues. He kept a mom who was just trying to take her nine-year-old Girl Scout to a Christmas show at Radio City Music Hall because her co-worker had made him angry. And just like eBay, Dolan did not just hire, you know, your normal run-of-the-mill security guards. He hired a private intelligence apparatus. His head of corporate security, a man named John Eversold, is a former global investigations director with a military background, including what he described on his LinkedIn profile as being on the executive protective detail for the office of the Secretary of Defense. According to this Wired piece, they talked to lots of people who presently and formerly worked at Madison Square Garden. He walks around the office, flashing a gun, according to multiple staffers who spoke to Wired, like he was in. Miami Vice in the 80s.

That is a piece of that story that stands out to me as the most deranged thing. All the rest of you can be like, okay, you know, he's not the sort of guy that we typically interview on the show. Walking around the office, flashing a gun,

something that multiple people apparently reported to Wired, that is unhinged. What are you doing? Yeah, he sounds like Frank from always sunny. He's just waving a gun around the office. So at Madison Square Garden, as at eBay, the staff underneath him were often asked to do things that they were not comfortable with, that they were like, how did I wind up doing this?

And here's the detail that really ties these two stories together. David Harville, who was Jim Baugh's deputy at eBay, the one who got 24 months in federal prison for his role in terrorizing the Steiner's, took a job at a Dolan-owned company before he was sentenced for his part of the whole. eBay harassment campaign. John Eversall, Madison Square Garden's head of security, wrote a letter calling Harville, quote, a man of extreme integrity and with the highest moral standards. He wrote this letter shortly before Harville went to prison for stalking the Steiner's with a box of live cockroaches.

I feel like me and Eversal might have a different definition of extreme integrity and moral standards. Yeah, that is one way to put it. So these men, you know, they know each other, they hire each other, they rehabilitate each other's reputations and launder each other's reputations that give each other jobs. It is like a professional network, which leads me to Nina Richards. So Nina is a trans woman. She liked going to see the Knicks play basketball at Madison Square Garden. That is her entire offense in this story, just enjoying a her to-for terrible basketball franchise.

In 2021, she starts going to Knicks games regularly at the Garden. At some point, she became what a lawsuit filed by a former Madison Square Garden security staffer describes as a fixation for John Eversoll that head of security at the garden. Very, very similar to the whole eBay story where this one couple becomes a fixation and they have to figure out a way to neutralize and take down this perceived threat to their entire operation. Whether or not that threat is actually grounded in anything real. I mean, if they don't, this woman might enjoy a basketball game.

Yeah, you can't have this one trans woman enjoy a basketball game at a sports arena. The whole operation would fall apart. Think of the children, Bridget. So Eversoll ordered his team to build out dossiers on her, conduct surveillance on her, open source intelligence reports on her, the same kind of work product that you would commission on like a corporate espionage target or a foreign national of interest on this person who was simply attending basketball games. He put her photo in Madison Square Garden's facial recognition system so that she would be flagged automatically at entry for surveillance. He showed her photo in weekly security briefings.

And according to a lawsuit, when he talked about her to the staff, he referenced her with dehumanizing and misgendering language. You know, we cover a lot of stories on our news roundups. If there was one article that I think that, like, people truly need to read to understand the scope of it, it would be this Wired piece. We'll definitely put it in the show notes. But it is a long read, but it is worth it. You cannot believe what you're reading at every paragraph. Each paragraph gets worse and worse. Every single Madison Square Garden security source who spoke to Wired for this piece about Nita said that the dynamic around surveilling her at the garden was excessive.

Former staffers confirmed that she didn't pose any kind of a threat. It's not like she was going places that she shouldn't or trying to access restricted areas. She was, in the words of one source, just a very large transgender woman being a fan and walking around. So just existing and going to a basketball game was enough. But Eversol, according to the lawsuit, had a specific concern. He believed that Nina, who is a trans woman, if she appeared in the celebrity seeds, which is the part of the arena, which, you know, famous people sometimes sit and it might show up on television broadcasts or in photographs, if she was shown sitting in those seats that it could damage Madison Square Garden's reputation, which is ridiculous.

And so, on January 10, 2020, which was Pride Night at the Garden, Madison Square Garden's threat management group produced an 18-page surveillance report about Nina Richards. This report includes excruciatingly detailed, time-stamped records of Nina's movements down to the minute. Every time she uses the bathroom, every time she gets up, every time she goes to concessions to get a snack or a beer. And eventually Nina was banned for the garden. The justification that they gave for her being banned was a stalking allegation. But every source who spoke to Wired called this allegation fabricated. Again, just like that eBay story, a fabricated threat. So I wanted to sort of put these two stories in conversation with each other because I think they illustrate very well.

This is not an isolated thing as wild as this eBay story sounds. It is part of a growing trend where these private companies will do more and more draconian over-the-top surveillance for just regular people who really haven't done anything wrong. So at eBay, you know, you've got this woman journalist being targeted by a team of young women recruited and cited. and psychologically broken down by a man with CIA training, and at Madison Square Garden, you've got a trans woman fan tracked down to the second by a security apparatus controlled by a man with military intelligence credentials.

That infrastructure of someone being able to essentially wield a private army pointed at women, operated by men who believe that a woman's visibility, whether it's in the press, as a journalist, or in the celebrity seats at a basketball game, is a threat. to be neutralized. And this infrastructure is spreading. The CEO of a facial recognition technology company,

the one that built Madison Square Garden's surveillance system, told Wired that Eversole is probably our biggest champion across the entire sports industry. He said, Madison Square Garden tells the NBA and the NHL what to do, not the other way around. This summer, eight different World Cup games will be played at SoFi Stadium in L.A. that same facial recognition system is now installed there. Wired reports that this system just automatically enrolls faces entering the venue.

I wanted to mention this because as extreme as all of this sounds, it is not super unique. What's different today in 2026 that wasn't the case back in 2019 and all of this stuff was happening is the way that things like facial recognition and biometric data collecting that just kind of feels like the cost of getting entry into a sporting venue or the cost of getting entry into a big concert or the cost of flying, right? I think that we have created a system where we are giving more and more and more of our data, of our biometrics over to these private companies when we know these private companies are using it in ways that are this draconian in extreme, up to it including using it to enforce their own personal enemies list,

which any one of us could wind up on. And that's what makes it a text story, right? Our personal information that is so easily collected. The technology has gotten so good. It's frictionless, right? Like you mentioned at SoFi Stadium during the World Cup, people just walking in, faces will be automatically scanned and added to a database,

probably without them even noticing unless they happen to look around and see a camera there. Like, it's so easy, it's so frictionless. And it becomes so normalized to collect. this data. And then at the same time, AI is making it so easy for people to leverage that data, even when they are leveraging it for reasons that they shouldn't be, right? That like, maybe they're illegal, maybe they're an ethical, maybe it's something that nobody consented to, but the people who are in control of those systems can still just, like, use it regardless.

Whenever we talk about this kind of surveillance state and all of that, there's always somebody who's thinking, well, I'm not going to do anything wrong. What difference does it make to me? The Steiders didn't do anything wrong. They just ran a blog and reported facts. Nina didn't do anything wrong. She just wanted to go to a basketball game, right?

The thing that can wind you on the list of one of these CEOs of a private company, you have no idea. I have to imagine that you and I, Mike, are definitely on a list. You and I talked about a little thing where I was like, maybe I'll wear a shirt that's like, the Knicks suck and try to get into a Knicks game and see what happens. Such a good point. It's so easy and like capricious to end up on one of these lists, right? In the case of the Snyders, you could say, okay, well, maybe they should have self-censored

and not written critical things about eBay, but that feels really gross and bad and like ultimately harmful to society. if journalists feel like they can't say anything critical about powerful interests, that would be really, really bad for society, not just because it would feel bad, but because journalism actually serves a very important function of preventing abuses and making sure that the powerful are using their power in ways that it's not completely corrosive to societies.

And then if you think about Nina Richards in Madison's Garden, it's even worse. It's like you said, like she didn't do anything. She was just existing trying to watch a basketball game. Now she's on a list and the whole teams are surveilling her and building dossiers about her movements. So let's take it back to eBay. Were there any consequences for what these executives at eBay did to the Steiner's?

As I said, at the tippy, tippy top level, not really. They got big payouts, big pay days. They were fine. But seven people did plead guilty in connection to this. Jim Baugh, eBay Senior Director of Safety and Security, the CIA guy, the architect of the whole thing. He got 57 months in federal prison. David Harville, his deputy, got 24 months. Philip Cook, a supervisor of eBay security operations and a former police captain,

got 18 months in federal prison, three-year supervised release, and one-year home confinement. Stephanie Popp, senior manager of global intelligence. Her sentence was deliberately set at one year and a day to qualify her for, federal prison rather than local jail. Veronica Zay, that 25-year-old contractor, the one whose presence in that rented van essentially unraveled the entire operation. She got two years probation, including one-year home confinement. Brian Gilbert, senior manager of special operations, also a former police captain, got probation and time served. Stephanie Stockwell, manager of Global Intelligence Center, got probation. Something about these sentences, like it does strike me that the people above

Baugh did not get any jail time or charges whatsoever. And if you believe Baugh's attorneys, he was simply responding to this toxic workplace at eBay of like paranoia and control and was carrying out this campaign on behalf of his bosses because that was the mandate as he understood it. And I just think it's important to note that that is how corporate criminal liability is structured. That insulation, him saying that these attorneys rushed in and conducted a quick investigation that just happened to protect the company and the higher-ups and throw him under the bus and send him to jail. That was not by coincidence. That insulation is the point.

Senior folks set the tone, express the desire, make it clear what they wanted, even through some insinuation. You know, you make it clear what it is that you want people to do. And then you let the org chart of your organization do the work of separating you from the execution so that you keep your hands clean, baby. Nobody ever, nothing ever gets connected back to you. you're going to walk, you're going to be fine. And when it all comes falling down, that is what separates you from the consequences. I also think it's worth pointing out

that two of the seven people who pled guilty are former police captains, Brian Gilbert and Philip Cook. So these were not like just eBay analysts. eBay's private security operation was stacked with former law enforcement. And just like with the Madison Square Garden example, the people who are running and building out these private armies that is with intention. They are intentionally finding people

who have law enforcement connections and backgrounds to do their private bidding. And what a long list that was of people who did receive criminal penalties for this. That was what, seven people? That's so many, right? Like on eBay's payroll, just being dedicated to harassing this couple,

running this trade publication. What a ridiculous waste of real. resources. Well, that's what I was saying earlier. I simply cannot imagine a scenario where this is a reasonable way to run an organization. I don't get what it got anybody. And not to let anybody off the hook here, because screw all of these people. But the fact that you could find seven different people who were just rank and file employees of eBay, just cash in a check, W-2 full-time employees who would go along with this does make me think that the staffers who testified that eBay was this toxic workplace full of paranoia and control and sleep deprivation and harassment

where everybody was screaming everybody and nobody knew what to do. That does make me think that must be true because in what other climate could you find seven different independent people who all went along with a harassment campaign this extreme and this criminal. I also love the implication that, according to Wenig and Weimer and some of the other executives who claimed they had nothing to do with this,

Ball was running this whole operation with like seven people without their knowledge, without accountability. That's a pretty poor management if that's actually true, which like it's obviously not true. But after like the fourth or fifth employee becomes involved,

don't they have some kind of responsibility to know what the hell their underlings are doing? I mean, legally, I guess apparently not. But it seems like they probably should. Well put. More after a quick break. Summer is on at base 31. The drill hall RBC stage is packed with big shows,

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That's like asking me, why do I breed? I inherited that fandom for my mom. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernando Chavari, and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great. A soccer game is a festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture.

I took an elbow to my head, which cracked my skull. It is an American game. The Brazilians don't like hearing that, though. Are they the only ones that don't like that? Nobody likes that. As we get ready for the Men's World Cup this summer, listen to American Football as part of the My Coutura Podcast Network, available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, like when actress Olivia Munn, shared how she overcame fierce health challenges. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer. And that was more difficult.

There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. So where do we stand today? What is the status of these cases? While the Steiner has filed a civil lawsuit in 2021, seeking nearly $500 million in damages against eBay, Wenig, Winer, and other executives, they spent years fighting for their day in court, specifically for Devin Wenig to actually sit in a room, sit in a courtroom, and answer for what happened.

The trial was originally set for January 5th of 26, and then Wenig's lawyer asked for a delay. He said that he had scheduling conflicts. The Steiner's objected, the judge granted that delay anyway and gave them a new date in March of 2026. But then, just two days before that trial was set to begin on February 25th, 26th, the case settled. However, that settlement is not even fully finalized yet right now, even of today. The deadline to finalize the civil settlement has been extended to May 29, 26. So, depending on when you're listening to this, just a few days from now. Now, the reason why that settlement has not closed is because of a dispute between the Steiner's and one of their former attorneys.

So we don't even really know how this whole thing will shake out, like, what the settlement will look like between eBay and these executives and the Steiner's. But what we do know is that Devin Weddeg never did have to sit in that courtroom and face any kind of accountability or answer for what happened. What a coward. How about the other players here? Where are they? Well, Jim Ball was scheduled to be released from federal custody in January 26. In a pretty big twist, he ended up cutting a deal with the Steiner's in the months before the trial, agreeing to testify against Wenning, the former CEO of eBay, Weimer, and the other executives

in exchange for being released from the civil suit. So he is not involved in the civil suit at all. So the man who orchestrated this entire harassment campaign was prepared to take the stand against the bosses who he say gave him the order. However, we never got to do that testimony because the case settled first. And it makes sense to me because at this point,

why continue to goon for these guys? Right? Like, why go down with the ship? You know how it's going to shake out. Like, why not cut a deal and testify against them? Right. They threw him under the bus so hard. He was a former CIA spook and now he's in prison

for 57 months. I bet he felt pretty raw about that. Yeah, I'll bet. David Harville, Boss Deputy, got 24 months. As I said, he went to work for one of Dolan, the owner of Madison Square Garden's companies, before he was even sentenced. Steve Weimer, the man who wrote the words, I want to see ashes, who wrote whatever it takes, who, according to prosecutors, escalated a CEO's rage into a directive that ended with cockroaches being mailed out to the Steiner's. Well, you're never going to guess what's the same. Steve Weimer is up to today. He is the CEO of the Boys and Girls Club of Silicon Valley. Stop.

Yeah, he works with kids. Oh, man. What is he teaching them? I guess I don't know how much direct contact with kids that he has, hopefully very little. Hopefully he's just like soliciting big checks from his wealthy friends. People in Silicon Valley, maybe they want their boys and girls to learn how to keep their hands clean.

Listen, Bridget, whatever it takes. It's funny that you say that because when he announced this job on social media, and that announcement was his first public statement, introducing himself as being aligned with this organization that serves kids, he used the phrase, whatever it takes, which I will say, I think, is the Boys and Girls Club's motto, but it's also what he put in writing that kind of was a directive, if you believe the prosecutors,

in this whole harassment campaign. I guess I did not understand what the Boys and Girls Club was all about. They're about doing whatever it takes to get ahead and keep your hands clean. Yeah, I thought they were about, like, supporting children to thrive. The Boys and Girls Club is an organization

that is, like, near and dear to my heart. But I do feel like I can sort of ding them a little bit because I checked they were aware of this whole harassment campaign, and what happened at eBay when they hired this guy. It is just Boys and Girls Club of Silicon Valley. It's not like Boys and Girls Club national. But I feel that some scrutiny is warranted there.

As much as I like the Boys and Girls Club, I feel comfortable giving them a little bit of scrutiny there. Because like, what the fuck, Boys and Girls Club? Yeah, I kind of thought integrity was part of it. Not using the power of a major transnational corporation to come down on a mom-and-pop newsletter that published some unflattering stuff about you personally. But hey, what do I know?

I am not a philanthropist. So how about David Wenning himself, the former CEO who allegedly put this whole thing into motion? So if it was shocking that Weimer now works with children at the Boys and Girls Club, I bet some people heard that and thought, oh, that's surprising. What Devin Wenning is up to,

the former CEO of eBay, I think we'll surprise no one. Can you guess what it is? I feel like every time you ask me this question, the answer is AI. It's AI. It's AI. Of course it's AI. So in 2024, Devin Wenig co-founded an AI company.

His company, Symbolic AI, is an AI platform that they say is specifically designed for journalists and writers and researchers and communications professionals whose job it is to report on powerful people. and powerful institutions because they're journalists. So this man, whose defining professional legacy is ordering the destruction of a journalist, has now built a product for journalists, and is trying to sell it and market it to journalists.

And I need to be super clear. Like, this guy is in the mix. It's not like he's hiding. He signed a partnership with News Corp. His tools are going into the Wall Street Journal. His face and his bio are on the website. His bio, it lists all of his accomplishments at eBay, things like shareholder returns and growth numbers and the Forbes appearance. It's not like he is obscuring his connection to eBay from his official public-facing bio.

It simply does not mention the Steiner's or e-commerce bites. It does not mention that federal prosecutors describe the company's conduct under his tenure as absolutely horrific. and that said prosecutors said that his employees put the victims through pure hell. Of course, none of that is in his public-facing bio on this new AI venture. Yeah, I can see how that wouldn't help sell stuff. So he's just going to leave it off, and that's fine. Wild. Yeah, I just can't stop thinking about Aina, who is the creative writer behind e-commerce bites, a fellow journalist.

She's also in the Online News Association. I can't stop thinking about her. She is, to this day, is still covering eBay at e-commerce bite. She published a story on eBay just earlier this week on the site. As she's doing that somewhere out there, the man who texted, quote, take her down because of something that she wrote, a piece of journalism that she conducted, is in sales meetings pitching AI tools to newsrooms and journalists

and telling editors how his platform can help journalists do better work. Maybe even pitching things that are meant to help journalists investigate powerful companies like eBay and powerful executives like he was when he ran eBay. So it does kind of seem like he kind of got away clean on this one. But never say never. We'll see what happens because if there's one thing I know, if you let a man Shanan once, he will shenan again.

So I don't know. Let's keep our head on a swivel for this guy. That's kind of the thing. Like, yeah, how could you trust a guy like this to, like, go into business with him? I feel like it would require a level of delusion like Baugh thinking, oh, it's us versus them and I'm part of us. No, I would never trust this guy. I wouldn't trust him with money. I wouldn't trust him with an AI venture.

If I was a rich guy, I wouldn't invest with him. I don't think I would, like, let him hold a baby. I would keep my eyes open on this dude. he also remained on the board of General Motors after all this became public and was reelected after it. The shareholders knew all about what happened at eBay. And I just feel like that's a little data point about how accountability actually functions or doesn't function at this level. Because basically it just sounds like this guy just had to ride out this scandal, wait for the smoke to clear, and then just sort of went on with his life. that might be the most disturbing part of this whole story

that other super rich folks saw what he did, they had full knowledge of what he did, and they're like, that's fine. Like, you like to imagine that people running these massive companies that run our world would have some integrity or have some sense that their great power comes with some responsibility, but clearly it doesn't, right? Yeah.

I guess he must be a hell of a businessman or something for them to just overlook all of that. Mike, he was spending the work energy and power of seven different employees, sending them across the country to terrorize two people. I don't think he was a crack mind. I feel confident in saying that I don't think he's that good of a businessman. If that was the calculation that he made and was like, this is a reasonable way to do business.

Your point is a good one, though, because I do think that the message that this sends, that if you do this, you will face no consequences, you'll get millions of dollars, and you'll just start a cushy venture elsewhere and, like, you will not face a single consequence. I think it does send a message to every executive or every powerful person who has ever looked at a journalist and thought, this person is a problem.

Because the cost of doing something like this is clearly manageable, right? You'll have your underlings and your goons do some jail time, but you will get a payout and you will go on, to do the next thing. And I think basically this case just set an example of if you wanted to do something like this, this is what it costs. eBay paid $3 million, which is the statutory maximum. So to me, that is the government saying, this is as bad as it gets. This harassment campaign was as bad as it gets. We are going to find you the maximum. That is only $3 million. So if you want to run a harassment

campaign like this to silence a journalist or silence an enemy or threaten an enemy or a perceived threat, this is what it costs, which is nothing. It's very cheap. This is not a sustainable way to run a society. So let's continue our tour through accountability or lack thereof. How about eBay the company itself? So I will say the Justice Department did do something kind of notable here. they did not just charge the employees. They charged eBay the company directly for stalking, witness tampering, and obstruction of justice. In January 2024, eBay agreed to pay a $3 million criminal penalty.

Now, $3 million might sound like a lot, but eBay is a Fortune 500 company, right? They have annual revenue in the billions. And think back to the separation payouts that some of those folks got in the millions, right? $3 million to eBay. is roughly what Wendy Jones made in the time it took her to respond to that harassment update

with a thumbs up emoji, right? It is in a literal sense, just the cost of doing business for a company like this. And just to reiterate, doing business means harassing a couple in dating. Yeah, it means sending a live box of spiders to a lovely couple in suburban Massachusetts. And again, eBay was fined

the statutory maximum. That is the most amount of money that the law allowed. So this is not really one of those cases where the punishment was kind of lenient relative to what was available. This is the system working precisely as it was designed. Our system just happens to cap corporate criminal penalties for stalking a journalist at $3 million. eBay entered what's called a deferred prosecution agreement. So if they comply with the conditions like accepting an independent monitor for three years, the charges could eventually be dismissed entirely against eBay. eBay did apologize, and for what it's worth, the current CEO of eBay, Jamie Ian Nunn. Not the person who was involved in any of this, a different CEO, did say that the conduct was wrong and reprehensible. You might be thinking,

well, certainly, eBay took a financial hit for this. Not so. eBay's stock price today is roughly where it was in 2019 when all of this was happening. So there was no real, like, lasting market consequence for this kind of behavior either. And it just kind of feels like the lesson here is that you can run a covert CIA-trained harassment campaign against an independent journalist, just pay a measly little $3 million, which is essentially like a rounding error for a company like eBay, say you're sorry. And then more or less continue operating normally, which means that That is the lesson that every other company and executive watching what happens will probably take away as well. The people below you go to jail and you walk.

Again, it's nice to be a boss. I like to imagine that privately they are all tortured within their own minds. But I don't know. Sometimes I wonder. Bridget, this has been such a fascinating and strange story. can you wrap it up for us? Well, here is what Ina and David Steiner said in a statement after eBay agreed to pay that $3 million criminal penalty. They wrote,

We were targeted because we gave eBay sellers a voice and because we reported facts that the top executives didn't like publicly laid bare. We remain determined to push for answers and do whatever we possibly can to ensure that no corporation ever feels that the option exists for them to squash a person's First Amendment rights. And I think that is really what this conversation is all about. Like, I know the details are very juicy and salacious, fetal pigs, bloody masks, porn subscriptions, live spiders. But I think keeping the focus on what happens when these powerful tech companies and institutions decide that a person's voice is a threat to be eliminated rather than like a perspective to engage with. And I think it's important to focus on women like Nina and Nina, you know, that trans woman who just wanted to watch a bash. game who was banned on this fabricated allegation and this professional network of men with law enforcement or government intelligence background who made that happen and then just like

hired each other afterward and just laundered each other's reputations afterward. Again, this is not isolated. It is spreading and it's sort of becoming a standard for doing business for some of the most powerful men in the world. As Wired reported, while the Trump administration, is trying to corner the market on morally compromised henchmen, a corporate overlord who wants their own security force can easily find everything from paid muscle to private intelligent analysis to the dark arts of public influence. LinkedIn alone is littered with NSA and CIA veterans

who are hashtag ready to work. One security executive compares our current situation to where Italy was 100 years ago when people had guards at their home and moved around with guys carrying. burying rifles. Dolan, the head of Madison Square Garden, is not an outlier. He's a model. And like that security executive says, we are in a time of private armies now. And if you've been listening to there are no girls on the internet for any length of time, you probably already know who those

armies are most pointed at, right? But sometimes, not always, not easily, and not without incredible cost, that married couple just running a newsletter at a small Massachusetts town is the one who wins. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Dodd.

If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's that time to put on your jersey and wave your flag, whoever you root for.

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From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. Listen to American Football on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential, and it's also elusive. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats.

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