There Are No Girls on the Internet - Epstein’s friendship with Bill Gates; Raw Milk; Jeremy Strong Comes for Zuckerberg; Update about the show - NEWS ROUND UP

Episode Date: June 12, 2026

We’re taking a short hiatus from publishing here, but will continue publishing weekly news roundups on our Patreon. Anyone can listen for free, without ads, at our Patreon at tangoti.com/roundup . There are new stories there today, so please check it out after you listen to this episode!  There Are No Girls on the Internet is a weekly podcast and newsletter hosted by Bridget Todd covering the tech, internet, and culture stories that deserve more attention — especially when they're about AI, power, gender, race, and who actually gets hurt when systems fail. We read the internet so you don't have to. This week: The Social Network is getting a sequel and Jeremy Strong is playing Zuckerberg, a bombshell ProPublica investigation into raw milk and the kids it's put in the hospital, and Bill Gates testified before Congress about Jeffrey Epstein — totally voluntarily, he cannot stress this enough.  🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts | SpotifySee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is There Are No Girls on the Internet, a podcast where we cover tech, power, and who gets left out. And this is our weekly news roundup where we read the Internet so you don't have to. And producer Mike, I wanted to quickly start with a little bit of housekeeping, which is that there are no girls on the Internet is taking a little bit of what I hope will be a short hiatus. In the meantime, however, we have decided that since we've shifted toward these weekly news roundups of news folks might have missed, I find it really helpful and clarifying to help me understand what all has happened in our crazy chaotic media landscape. Hopefully, you listeners do too. So we are going to continue doing the news roundups, but rather than being in this feed, they will be available on Patreon.

So if you just go to tangoity.com slash roundup, you can engage. get those roundups, including the rest of the roundup for this week, will be on Patreon. The roundups will be free so you don't have to pay to listen to the roundups, and they will not have ads. So join us over there on Patreon. You can support the show on Patreon if you like, but no pressure. Again, the roundups will be on Patreon while we're on Heiatus. They will be free and they will have no ads.

Did I miss anything, Mike? I think you got it all, Bridget. And yeah, I just want to stress to all the listeners that this is hopefully just a temporary state of affairs and that we will be back here in this regular feed before we know it. But in the meantime, you know, we enjoy doing these weekly news roundups. It seems like listeners like them. It feels like they are something that people find a lot of value in. And so I'm glad that we are going to be able to continue doing them every week, during this hiatus from the main show.

And I am glad that we're going to be able to do it. Add free. That's going to be nice. And also not behind a paywall. There's a lot of great podcasts that have all sorts of different models. And paywalls have their pros and their cons. But it feels really good to be able to continue putting this out for free. So yeah, people during this time can follow along every single week, tangoody.com slash roundup.

That'll take you right to our Patreon page. And we will continue seeing you there. And then we'll look forward to seeing you back here in the very near future. But for today, we do have a couple news stories here. We decided we're going to split it up, do half of them here in the main feed, and facilitate the transition over to Patreon during this hiatus period. So people can go over there after you listen here and get the remainder of today's news stories. That is right.

You know when you go into a building or a hotel where they're doing construction and they have those signs that say, pardon our dust, y'all, this might be a little bit of an awkward transitionary period. Hopefully it will be only temporary. So, yeah, thank you for rocking with us. Might be a little bit of a bumpy transition, but let's do it, shall we? Yeah, let's do it. Let's get into it. What's catching your interest on the internet these days, Bridget? Well, first of all, in lieu of banter, please accept a complaint about something digitally, not to pull the dead parents card, but something that I have noticed that I've never really realized it until both my parents passed away. May they rest in peace. But it feels like every single business that I ever did any kind of transaction with, I could have bought a bottle of shampoo from a company 10 years ago. It's like I consented.

to them emailing me to remind me about Mother's Day and Father's Day until the day that I die. I will say a couple of companies have gotten wise and they'll send the email maybe in February that says, hey, Mother's Day and Father's Day is coming up. If you don't want us to email you about Mother's Day and Father's Day, click here to opt out. I click all of the things I get, I click. It is like I cannot escape it. And I just think it's interesting of like when did I opt into this dynamic where, yeah, I bought a hat from this company 16 years ago.

They are reminding me that my mom and dad are dead every Mother's Day and Father's Day until the days that I die. And then I guess if I have kids, I will pass that hurt onto my kids and it'll be like, oh, did you buy a bar of soap from us? Just FYI, your mom's still dead. You know what I mean? Is this something you see? I do see the aggressive Mother's Day, Father's Day marketing,

and it always feels a little, I don't know, exploitative. That seems a little strong, but it reminds me of during the pandemic when you'd get emails like, here at AutoZone, we are taking the coronavirus pandemic very seriously. Like, I don't know, maybe everything doesn't need to be an opportunity for marketing. And I could see how that would be really like a hurtful, weird reminder when you're just trying to check your email. I had not noticed companies offering the opportunity to opt out. That feels like actually a really nice thing. I appreciate that companies are at least letting you divest from this a little bit.

Speaking of the early days of COVID, you know my coffee table book idea of just a book of tweets and social media posts from that very weird time. Like I remember after January 6th, I think this is real. I'm not making this up. Axe body spray had to put out a tweet that was like, X body spray respects the peaceful transition of power in a democracy. I want to collect all of those you had to be there. You had to live through this time to get it. I want to collect all of those in a book.

I think it would be hilarious. And also really dystopian and sad. I would totally buy that book. Okay, well, can I pivot from something that is annoying me on social media right now to something that I am so freaking excited to see on social media right now? Yeah, let's do it. What are you so freaking excited to see? Listeners who listen to my episode with Stuff, Mom Never Told You,

about the social network. Know that I am very excited for the, I'm calling it a sequel, but I think that they're not using the word sequel. They're using the word companion. So the companion film to the social network, the social reckoning, which comes out in October, we got the trailer, and I'm even more excited.

There's a, there's not to go back to Housewives, but there's an Erica Jane line where Erica Jane is saying, I'm going to give the gays everything they want. I feel like Aaron Sorkin, Sub in Bridget Todd for the gaze, Aaron Sorkin is like, I'm going to give Bridget Todd everything she wants from this trailer. Because we got Mikey Madison from the movie Onora as Francis Hogan, who most folks will recall, was the Facebook whistleblower who worked at Facebook and then blew the whistle on the ways that Facebook. was knowingly harming women and young girls for profit, among other things. Jeremy Allen White from the show The Bear as a Wall Street Journal tech journalist who breaks the story. Jeremy Strong from Succession as Mark Zuckerberg. We even have Wanami Masaku from Sinners, who I did not know was going to be in this,

and the comedian Bill Burr. The trailer, I mean, I still remember the trailer for the social network. It was one of those, if you were there, you'd be. remember trailer. It had a coral cover of Radiohead's creep, and it just was very much of an era. It really, let's just say when I saw that trailer, my interest was peaked. And this trailer for the Social Reckoning also has peaked my interest. The trailer makes it seem that it is much more a movie about Francis Howgan than it is about Mark Zuckerberg, whereas Mark Zuckerberg was the main storyline of the first movie, him creating Facebook while he was a student at Harvard.

This is a movie about Francis Howgne deciding to blow the whistle. Jeremy Strong as Mark Zuckerberg. When I heard him doing Mark Zuckerberg's voice in the trailer, I had a moment where I had to pause it and say, like, is this Mark Zuckerberg speaking? That's how much he sounds like Mark Zuckerberg. They could not have gotten a more intense actor to portray Mark Zuckerberg, if you ask me.

You mentioned the social network, the companion film that came out, well over a decade ago now, was of an era, and that feels so true. Like, I can remember when that film came out. My friends were so excited about it, into it. People had strong feelings about Facebook,

many much more positive feelings, also some negative feelings, but, like, it was a very different conversation then, and it's so interesting to see how different, both the conversation is now about the same company. And also just like the tone of this new movie. I am also very excited to see it. That trailer made it look intense and cool.

I hope the movie holds up to what these expectations the trailer is setting up. And, you know, with that cast, it seems like it maybe will. Yeah, I should say up front, I'm a sucker for all of the Aaron Sorkin, David Fincher stuff. it works on me Quick cuts Give me a like thumping Trent Resner soundtrack

I'm in people walking briskly down hallways maybe a monologue I wish I could It just it works on me

It works on me I know people could say it's a little bit hacky But I think it works for a reason One thing I sort of push back

On a little bit about this movie is that again I'm only going from the trailer It seems to me that Francis Howgan is really positioned

as this sort of wide-eyed person who is really working hard to decide whether or not she wants to blow the whistle on Facebook and all of the ramifications they're in. When Francis Howgan was first speaking up about Facebook, which is a good thing. I don't want to make it seem like I'm, you know, poo-pooing what she did. But, you know, we did an episode of the podcast with Sophie's On who also worked at Facebook and also became a whistleblower and was a woman of color, was in a very different situation. than Francis Howgan, got a lot less attention than Francis Howgan. And one thing I don't necessarily align within the film, and we'll see if this is actually

reflected if it's not just in the trailer. But the idea that Francis Howgan, like Francis Howgan is a very savvy, wealthy person. And when Francis Howgan blew the whistle on Facebook, had already very smartly and in a very savvy way, set up a lot of protection for him. herself financially and legally. And so the movie, at least from the trailer, it makes it seem like this portrayal of Francis Hogan, she seems quite like do-eyed. And I don't know what to do. Should I blow the whistle? Should I come forward? And I don't know if that's going to be a threat that they really, you know, work in the film. But from my understanding of Francis Hogan in reality, I would not describe her as do-eyed. I'll put it that way. This is not to belittle what she did. But I think that there's a

lot of different whistleblower stories out there. And I don't think that we should necessarily be painting all of them with one brush that a lot of whistleblowers are women are marginalized people. That is definitely true. Whistleblowing at these big tech companies is like dangerous work. And you should be taking steps to protect yourself legally and financially and all of the professionally and socially and all of that. However, I think there's a very easy story to tell about whistleblowers that just is not the story of all whistleblowers. So, It'll be interesting to see how this movie paints the portrait of what we actually know about Francis Hogan in reality. That's such a good point.

We will drop a link to that Sophie Zahn episode in the show notes because I think there was a really interesting good episode. And, you know, that'll give listeners something to listen to while we're on this hiatus in between following us on the Patreon. And also, it'll be real curious to see how this new movie treats Sophie Zahn, like how she shows up. And that's a great call, Bridget. More after a quick break. Do you call it soccer or do you call it football? You're right. Who gives a...

It doesn't matter what you call it. The 90 minutes is what matters. Sports interaction has hundreds of markets on every match of the tournament, giving you thousands of ways to bet on what matters. Canada's premier betting destination for the world's game. Bet with sports interaction. 19 plus. Please play responsibly.

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart.

Streaming, radio, and podcast. Call 844-844-I-heart to get started. That's 844-8-4-8-4-I-heart. I love the sounds, the buzzing from the stadium, the chanting from the fans, the announcers calling the place soccer, football, at home. Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed? I inherited that fandom from my mom. I like watching it with my dad.

It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great. A soccer game is a festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I took an elbow to my head, which cracked my skull. It is an American game. The Brazilians don't like hearing that, though. Are they the only ones that don't like that? Actually, nobody likes that.

As we get ready for the Men's World Cup this summer, listen to American Football as part of the My Coutura Podcast Network, available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges, I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult.

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Let's get into some of the news stories that you were following this week What have you got for us first Well, Well, first of all, y'all, I'm obsessed with raw milk. Not drinking it. Although, fun fact, I actually have drank raw milk before. Did you know this, actually, Mike?

Maybe you don't even know this about me. You've told me all about it, but I don't think you've ever talked about it on the pod. So how did you come to drink raw milk, Bridget? Did you buy it from a store? I did not. I went to Agriculture Camp as a kid, 4-H Camp, where I learned all about it. agriculture, including milking cows. I did milk a cow. If you put a cow's utter in front of me, I feel like it would come back, muscle memory style. Why I wound up at 4-HK, but I have no idea.

I don't know how I wound up there. I don't know what my parents were like, that's a reasonable thing for our child who has never been around agriculture or farm life or any of that in our entire life. Sure. But one time when we milked the cow, they said, oh, you can have a little sip if you want. So I had the tiniest little taste of it. I will say, I mean, we'll get into the story in a minute, but that's one of the things that makes me so confused about the raw milk movement, which is that, you know, drinking raw milk, it doesn't give you any better health. It's not, it's not any better for you than pasteurized milk. The only thing, having tasted it, the only thing that maybe I would say is that it tasted a little bit, maybe a tiny bit creamy,

or thicker, that was the only difference. And so I guess that's one of the reasons why I find the raw milk movement so weird. So to be clear, I am not obsessed with drinking raw milk. I am obsessed with reading about raw milk because it really does speak to so many of the things that we talk about on the show. Wellness culture, social media misinformation, regulatory capture, and what happens when the person running America's health agencies are personally invested in a product that makes people sick and puts kids in the hospital. So ProPublica has this fascinating deep dive long read about this one guy who runs the largest raw milk dairy in the country. This is one of those stories where you should absolutely read the full piece from ProPublica by

Annie Waldman. We'll put it in the show notes, of course, because it's got so much texture that I feel you really need to read it. But the piece itself is fascinating. It is. I read it. And like you said, there is so much to it. So many quotes, so many facts and like twists and turns that like you said, speak to so many of the themes we talk about on the show. It's a wild story. People should definitely read it. And also just like, ProPublica is such an incredible resource for our country covering these things like there are right now, people should definitely read it. But for folks who haven't read it yet, Bridget, what is the raw milk movement? So raw milk, which is basically just unpasteurized milk, meaning that it has not been heated to kill harmful bacteria, has gone from this fringe

obsession to a full-blown mainstream movement. More than 10 million Americans right now drink it. So that's 10 million people who probably have stomach aches or are getting sick or are sickening their loved ones from this milk. National weekly sales of raw milk rose from 65% from 2023 to 2024 alone. And at the center of all of this is one guy, a 64-year-old guy from California named Mark McAfee, whose company, Raw Farm is the largest raw milk dairy in the country, and they bring in about $30 million a year selling raw milk. And so again, what is raw milk? What differentiates it from the milk that you might just go get at the grocery store? So before we had widely adopted pasteurization, which we've been doing as a standard practice

for about a century, thousands of babies died each year from contaminated dairy. Today, scientists and health experts pretty broadly agree that raw milk does not have significant proven nutritional benefits over pasteurized milk. It can't treat or cure diseases. and on top of that, it carries over 100 times the risk for food-borne illness, and it is particularly dangerous for young children. It's one of those stories where I read stories about raw milk, and it's easy for me to say, wow, this person is really stupid, and they just drank raw milk, and now they got sick.

But the fact that people are giving this to their children who really can't, you know, it's not like the kids have a sense of it. The fact that adults are giving it to kids, and it's particularly risky for children, that is what keeps this from being just pure, sort of like, like, oh, you've got what you deserve or drinking raw milk. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's such a difficult thing to wrap my head around. I remember in school learning about Louis Pasteur

and the invention of pasteurization as this great boon for all of humankind, this huge step forward to eliminate disease and suffering and unnecessary death. And it's just wild. that now in 2026 we have these adherents to this, what previously was a fringe idea and is still a ridiculous idea, just turning that logic on its head despite so much evidence over, like you said, more than a century.

And it's clear. The evidence is clear. It used to be a non-controversial thing. It's still not controversial among scientists. but here we are. Help us understand how we got here, Bridget. Well, I think that your point is really helpful of understanding how we got here, which is that it's the fact that this was non-controversial

and it's like, oh yeah, we've accepted that pasteurization is a thing that you need to do to dairy so that you don't get sick and don't kill your child. And now people are like, wait a minute, isn't the jury still out on science? That really does boil it down. And, you know, when I was reading this article, this is just me extrapolating here.

The thing that jumped out at me is that you can get people to sicken themselves and poison themselves and pay for the pleasure if you tell them that it means that they're standing up against some unseen force that doesn't want them to be doing this. If you tell them that they are a free thinker or that it means that they are better than other people, smarter than other people, more healthy than other people, you can get people to pay for the benefit of poisoning themselves. And when you go to his dairy, which is called raw farm, even the labels and stuff, I kind of think that you could get a certain subsection of people to buy anything if the label is

cute enough. If the typeface and the font is a particular kind of way that is signaling to you, oh, this is healthy or special or good for you in someone. way you can get people to buy anything. Sadly, it seems like you're right. And in the ProPublica piece, they talk about how on the labels they would use this like wink and nod joky language to fly just under regulations because apparently for many years in many states, it was only legal to be sold as pet food. And so they would say it's pet food, but also it's safe for humans to eat. I'm paraphrasing there. That's not literally what they said, but almost like not just using the

cutesy branding, but also inviting people in on this like, we're getting away with something together marketing hook. Yes, exactly that. So many states allow the sale of raw milk. Only six states, Hawaii, Nevada, Mississippi, Michigan, and Rhode Island, you just can't buy it at all. Some places like Colorado, Florida, North Carolina, Maryland, New Jersey, Virginia, Ohio, Wisconsin, and others, it's allowed to be sold as pet food. And so that's sort of the way that they're getting around it with these labels that make you think, like, oh, we're selling this as pet food, but we both know what you're going to do with it. You're going to drink it and have your kids drink it. So this guy that they profile in the ProPublica piece, he's basically, and kind of

proudly, it sounds like, a vendor number one for raw milk sales. So federal and state regulators have linked his one specific farm to more than a dozen recalls and outbreaks that have left at least 233 people sick and at least 40 people hospitalized since 2006. And those are just the documented cases. Experts say that the true number is almost certainly higher because a lot of people will just recover at home and be sick at home without ever getting tested. A lot of the victims skew very young children because children are more vulnerable to this. And this guy is like, Fuck yeah, that's me. That's my record. Love it. He told Republica, quote, I put a couple of kids in the hospital and they have been sick, but they recovered. But here's the thing. I'm a pioneer and I'm going against the grain here. I'm climbing the mountain. They say you can't climb. And that's my whole point is that the whole thing with these people, because again, it's not like raw milk is some sort of special thing that's going to cure what ails you or anything. It doesn't have any additional benefits. the thing, in my opinion, is that these guys and the people who get mixed up in this,

what they're actually buying is being able to think of themselves as free thinkers and pioneers and people who are brave enough to climb a mountain that they say that you can't climb and who go against the grain. And if you ask me, that feeling of smugness is not worth you getting sick or your child getting sick because you wanted to feel like a free thinker. There are plenty of ways to feel like free thinkers that don't involve sending your own kid to the hospital. And I think that smugness is adjacent to something that's even more insidious and harmful. I think it's right up against some of the eugenics ideology that underlies a lot of this kind of thinking. You know, he says, oh, I put kids in the hospital.

They got sick, but they've recovered. So no big deal. You know, they're stronger for it. But that leaves out the kids who didn't. recover, right? Like the reason we started pasteurizing milk in the first place is because many kids would get sick and die. And I think like just below the surface there is the idea that like the strong will survive and the weak will get sick and die. And that's okay because we're a country of plucky pioneers. And if you're one of the unlucky kids who happens to get a bad

batch of milk, that's actually on you. More after a quick break. Do you call it soccer or do you call it football? You're right. Who gives a fuck? It doesn't matter what you call it. The 90 minutes is what matters. Sports interaction has hundreds of markets on every match of the tournament

giving you thousands of ways to bet on what matters. Canada's premier betting destination for the world's game. Bet with sports interaction. 19 plus. play responsibly. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-844-Eyheart.

I love the sounds, the buzzing from the stadium, the chanting from the fans, the announcers calling the plays soccer, football, it's home. Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed? I inherited that fandom from my mom. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is a... American football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots.

We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great. A soccer game is a festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I took an elbow to my head, which cracked my skull. It is an American game. The Brazilians don't like hearing that, though. Are they the only ones that don't like that? Nobody likes that. As we get ready for the Men's World Cup this summer, listen to American Football as part of the My Coutura Podcast Network, available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby.

Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And it's in front of exciting because their new star is Javier Tichorino Hernandez.

Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day, I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions, ever since I was born. And I still have so many questions. Where do we come from? What happens after death? How do you deal with cancellation? Cristiano or Messi? Do aliens exist?

What is love? Real Madrid or Barcelona? From every day and ordinary to the deep and extraordinary. This isn't a normal podcast. Everything here is spontaneous, real and genuine. This podcast is like a deep talk with your closest friends. Where vulnerability comes out. Conspiracy theories end up on the table and goals and lessons are shared.

All in this life has an order perfect and everything is just. I'm going to be I'm going to be going to be We are here to connect The Chicharito And Javier Rambi

and together with Iha Radio we're going to make the ordinary extraordinary stay close It's a carac Listen to learning

to be human On IHard Radio Apple Podcast Or wherever you get your podcast Let's get right back into it Oh it is

I'm so glad you brought that up because it's absolutely a dynamic rooted in eugenics And I think that Venn diagram is a circle that's essentially what they're saying.

You know, what pisses me off is that kids are uniquely vulnerable to being sickened and hospitalized because of raw milk because they're children. So it's just a totally not rooted in reality worldview. It's just a very toxic, dangerous worldview that I agree with you is absolutely based in this idea that, oh, the ones who get sick, well, maybe they weren't supposed to make it after all. They couldn't handle drinking this unpasteurized milk. Never mind the point that there is.

no point to drinking it. It's absolutely pointless. There's no benefit whatsoever. So why even do this? It infuriates me that this guy is making millions basically selling these lies that get people sick. And it's a social media and tech story to me because, you know, this movement did not get to 10 million people chugging raw milk through word of mouth and farmers markets. It happened through the internet and social media. And McAfee, this guy who runs this one farm, really understood that early, and according to this piece, kind of got it on the ground floor of that. He built websites claiming that raw milk could cure asthma, treat diabetes, clear eczema, fix ear infections. He found that a nonprofit called the Raw Milk Institute to kind of bolster those claims.

And then on social media, those ideas were able to scale in ways that he could have never done alone. And so now there's influencers with millions of followers and huge platforms. that are spreading the message that raw milk healed their gut or balanced their hormones or cleared their skin or helped their fertility issues or transform their child. And all of this wellness content, this like wellness content machine has turned raw milk into a symbol of freedom, a symbol of authenticity, and this symbol of resistance to big food and big pharma. And McAfee has leaned into the whole thing and profited from it. Now, I want to be clear, I'm not saying that, like, our food, this is, this is where they get you because they're such a, they're such a, like,

kernel of truth that these grifters then blow up to exploit. So we definitely have issues with our food system and how food is regulated in this country and big pharma. I don't want to make it seem like I'm like, the real, you know, way to be authentic is to support big pharma or whatever. That's not what I'm saying. But I think that what these people do is they exploit our perhaps grounded concerns about the food industry and the medical industry and the pharmaceutical industry. And then they blow that up, make it outsized. And then they say, oh, well, I actually had the cure and you can trust me by my raw milk or my supplement or whatever. And it is effective because they are exploiting people's very real, suspicion.

very real fears, which sometimes can be grounded in reality. Absolutely, yes. There's a kernel of truth there. People like this guy are exploiting it so they can sell their stuff despite knowing that it's harmful. And also, people should know better, you know? That is also what is like people should know better. Clearly they don't, right?

It's so appealing to so many people. And I sort of get it, but also it's such a transpersonation. parent grift, it really is enraging. People should know better. And I do think there is an argument to be made of, well, if this stuff was really bad for you, why, like people who have been sickened by raw milk, one of the things that they say when they're kind of absolving themselves of whatever agency that they might feel like they should take in drinking this or giving it to their children is, if this is so unsafe,

why was I able to buy it? And I guess your mileage may vary whether or not that's a sympathetic argument. That's typically what they say in lawsuits and stuff. And the thing is is that the reason why you're able to buy it is because people like McAfee are exploiting loopholes and wink, wink language and exploiting the fact that our current elected officials and appointed officials are allowing for this to be sold. Right? And so I don't necessarily personally buy the argument of, well, if this was so bad for me,

why was they able to go into a store and buy it? You know, I'm like, well, you're an adult. If something is labeled as pet food and they're doing all kinds of wink, wink, wink, nod, not, you know, marketing, you take a little responsibility for the fact that you bought this and drank it and got sick or gave it to your kid and your kid got sick. However, I don't think that they're wrong for saying, well, why aren't our elected officials cracking down on this? And so that's also what this guy is excluding, the fact that folks like RFK are bolstering this

And co-signing these claims, the people who should ostensibly be there to keep people safe are doing the opposite. And that brings us to sort of the regulatory capture piece of all this. He told ProPublica that that is sort of part of his branding, that influencers tell audiences, hey, if the FDA says something, do the opposite. If the FDA says do X, do the opposite of what they say, that it's safer, don't trust them at all. And he is clearly targeting women. He said, they have the guns and the money, but I've got the truth and the moms. And so the Biden administration was on the verge of cracking down on his farm when Trump took office and then the Department of Health and Human Services changed hands.

It's now run by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who is notably one of McAfee's most prominent customers. Folks might remember that they celebrated a federal health report with a toast of raw milk shooters in the White House and described the Biden administration's previous stance and trying to shut down this farm as, quote, aggressive suppression. So without publicly stating a reason, but I feel like we know why, the Trump administration dropped its ongoing legal efforts against this farm in January. A former federal employee told ProPublica that the raw milk cases were being deprioritized because of Kennedy's stance, and McAfee, the guy who runs this farm, of course, called it a big win. I'm sure it was a big win for his wallet and pockets and bottom line.

Yeah, huge win for him. So in March of this year, raw farm cheese was linked to another E. coli outbreak. Nine people got sick across three states. More than half of them were under five years old, one developing the same severe kidney condition that nearly killed a seven-year-old boy back in 2006. The CDC told people to consider not eating the cheese. That was their, that was like their version of handling. it was saying, oh, people should consider not eating this cheese. But the FDA gave no consumption

guidance whatsoever. MacAfee refused to issue a recall for 18 days, and when he finally did, under the threat of a forced recall, he appended statements to his advisory saying the recall was being performed under protest. Then the FDA closed its investigation into all of this on April 30th without taking any kind of enforcement action. And you might be wondering, how did McAfee feel about all this. Was he saying, was he like, oh, are so sad, these kids got sick? No, he said, quote, we don't feel bad at all. Our sales are the highest they've ever been. Sick kids, that last part was mine. He didn't, that, the kaching part was me. Yeah, although I'm sure you could have heard it from inside the cash registers inside his dairy. I feel like that is the ultimate

vindication for these guys. Like, the health of it, kids getting sick doesn't matter. The proof that they're right is that they have money and they make money on it and that's the only thing that matters to them. I'm a free thinker and I'm rich. I have to be doing something right, right? That's the argument. Well, speaking of rich people, can I tell you what's going on with Bill Gates? Yeah, let's talk about what's going on with Bill Gates. So what exactly was the nature of the relationship between disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein and Microsoft billionaire Bill Gates? That is what the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee are trying to find out. Bill Gates set down for a transcribed interview with the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which has been

summoning powerful people from Epstein's orbit for months, including the Clintons earlier this year. Unlike the Clinton's interviews, which were taped and later released, Bill Gates' was a closed-door, not-recorded-on-camera interview that ran for six hours. The transcript hasn't been released, but several committee members have spoken publicly about how it went, and Gates's team released his opening statement ahead of the hearing. Now, importantly, Bill Gates was there voluntarily, a fact that based on everything that I have read, he could not have mentioned more times if he tried. Every other line as well, I'm happy to be here voluntarily. You know, I voluntarily came here and showed up for this. Nobody forced me. He told reporters outside, I'm glad to be here voluntarily

to testify to help with the committee's work. He also did not take questions. So he didn't take questions. What did he actually say? I'll start with the elephant in the room, which is that he's sort of been back and forth a little bit saying, oh, I didn't know what was going on with Epstein. I didn't know about its crimes.

Well, he pretty much admitted that he knew what was going on with Epstein. According to Democratic Representative Melanie Stansbury of New Mexico, quote, he admitted that he knew of Mr. Epstein's reputation. He admitted that he knew that he had been convicted of sex crimes, but ultimately, in his words, he viewed this narrow relationship as being an acceptable means to access wealthy donors. Oof, that is damning. It is damning.

And, you know, they talk about it in these sort of vague terms, like, oh, I knew about his legal issues. We're talking about sex crimes against children. And mind you, Epstein pled guilty to sex crimes against my husband. in 2008 during his first arrest. So Bill Gates met him three years after all of that. In his own opening statement, Gates kind of tries to soften this. He says that he, quote, recalled being aware that Epstein had faced prior legal issues, but that he, quote, didn't fully understand the extent of the crimes he had committed. I, this is just my opinion. I don't believe that.

Because it was huge news. This was not a niche case. Yeah, that is something that I feel keeps coming up with all these powerful people who keep trying to distance themselves from Epstein, like, pretending as if so much of what was publicly known was somehow not known by them, which really just like kind of defies credibility. Yeah, defies credibility is a good way to put it. I just simply don't believe him. I think that he's lying about. that if you were to ask me. That's just my opinion. Representative Robert Garcia, the top Democrat on the committee, called it, quote, a horrific judgment call. Yeah, I'll say. So Gates says that his relationship with Epstein went from 2011 to 2014 and was really focused on setting up a donor-advised fund, which is a tax advantage charitable vehicle through which Epstein had hoped to connect Gates with other wealthy donors and then himself earn a fee. Importantly, Epstein was simultaneously

trying to use J.P. Morgan to set up this charitable fund as a way to rebuild his reputation after that guilty plea and conviction in 2008 and him having to register as a sex offender. So this whole thing was about laundering his reputation using Bill Gates. The whole scheme was about Epstein delivering Gates money and connections. And he was communicating with J.P. Morgan as if he was Bill Gates' personal financial advisor, which he was not. So Epstein, Epstein was sort of lying about Bill Gates and pretending to represent Bill Gates in a more official capacity that he actually was because he was hoping that this would allow him to launder his reputation. When it became clear that that was all going on, that Epstein was like lying and misrepresenting things, it sounds like that's when the relationship fell apart. Epstein could not deliver the donors that he'd promised and Bill Gates says that that's when he cut him off.

In the testimony, Representative Stansberry asked Gathan said, well, are you saying that the end, justify the means, like, you know, it was worth it to work with this convicted child sex criminal if it ended with there being, you know, some charitable thing done by your organization. And he said, quote, well, that's probably too strong of language. But I felt that getting billions of dollars for global health was worth it. Yeah. That's, you know, that's what the ends justify the means means, right? So basically the answer is yes. I did feel that working with him in this narrow capacity was worth it if it meant that I would get the money

that I was looking for for my charity? That's literally what the expression means, I think. Yeah, I think so. And I feel there's like two lessons in that, assuming we take him at his word that that was his main motivation for being in business with Epstein. One is just the fact that the ends don't justify the means, right?

Like, it is important to act ethically, even if you have some really attractive ends that you think is noble, getting there through ill means that you know are unethical is bad and it's probably not going to pay off for you. That's one of the lessons. The other lesson is like, don't get mixed up with a con man liar blackmailer. Like somebody who has already publicly pled guilty to such unethical stuff about whom so much is known, the idea that like, well, he's unethical in those other areas of his life.

But when he's dealing with me, I'm sure I can trust him. He's not going to turn around and try to screw me is just like baffling. Talk about, what did they call it? A horrific judgment call? Yeah, it was. Well, that's why I harp on this story so much because it pierces the illusion that these billionaire tech gurus are smart, capable, have good judgment, have better judgment than any of us. Clearly they don't because you wouldn't have got mixed up with somebody like this.

And not for nothing, every time that we get a batch of emails and messages that Epstein sent anybody, they're all mistyped and full of weird-ass emojis. And it's like, this is the guy that you're like, thinking you were going to get financially mixed up with somebody that you were aware, had legal issues that probably sends you cryptic, misspelled, weird-type emails at 3 o'clock in the morning. Yeah. It's the sort of thing that makes you wonder if something else was going on. So you brought up the extortion. Let's get into it because Epstein was extorting Bill Gates. I've talked about this on the podcast before, but Gates did acknowledge in his opening statement what we already sort of knew, which is that Epstein had obtained information about his extramarital affairs and was using that as leverage to pressure him back into the relationship after Gates started pulling away. Gates didn't spell out the specifics, but we do have reporting from the Wall Street Journal and the Garterman.

about how some of this might have played out. So Epstein found out that Gates had been having an affair with this Russian bridge player, like the card game bridge, who was 20 at the time. So at least everybody is like of legal age here. That Russian bridge player wanted about half a million dollars to start a business to teach people how to play bridge on the internet. Epstein said, oh, I know exactly who you should meet. Bill Gates.

He's got lots of money. So Epstein connected Bill Gates to this Russian bridge player. Bill Gates declined to fund this business, but it seems like they did start up some kind of a non-plotonic, non-business relationship while Bill Gates was still married to Melinda. One little detail about this is that Epstein paid for this woman to attend coding classes. And I guess after he connected her with one, Bill Gates and Bill Gates declined to fund her bridge enterprise. Epstein then was like, well,

Bill Gates is the one having sex with her. He should at least be reimbursing me the money that I'm out for these coding classes. So he tried to get Bill Gates to reimburse him for the coding classes for this Russian bridge player that he had spent. Well, like, what a weird story, right? It just feels so petty, like such small stakes stuff. Like we're talking about reimbursements for some coding classes. Connected with this story about global financiers, a global sex pest ring that Epstein was running. It was like such a juxtaposition there that, like you said,

really puts the lie to the idea that these guys are in some sort of genius class above everyone else. More after a quick break. You have the desire to help do you have a real difference? The College, LaCite, you offer the program Dependance and Scenti Mental.

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It is a carac. Wow. Listen to learning to be human on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Let's get right back into it. This is small, petty men being led around by their junk. stuff. This is not like, we really have to disabuse ourselves as a notion that these are men of stature who are really smart and really great and like they're cut from better cloth on the rest of us. This is, you know these guys. Like you, like this is, if they weren't wealthy and

they didn't run tech companies, they would be the guys in the Applebee's downtown having little power games about who's getting the attention of the waitress. Like, like, you know these guys. These are guys that you know. These are not, like, I guess the reason I harp on these stories is because it just really puts to bed the notion that these are people who are smarter or better than us. They are not. These are just guys. These are just guys who have terrible judgment, especially when it comes to stuff like this. So of the coding classes, the Wall Street Journal reported that, quote, the tone of the message was that Epstein knew about the affair and could expose it. So pay me for these coding classes or I'll tell your wife everything. I'll go public. A gate spokesperson

said that Gates had no financial dealings with Epstein. And I guess to me, it kind of sounds like they're implying that he never, that he was like, this is a shakedown, I'm being extorted and I'm not going to pay. But the fact that Epstein felt like he had enough leverage over Bill Gates, this like powerful, wealthy man, I feel like Ridley's has a lot about how these relationships worked. It's no big revelation that Epstein was somebody who was really good at getting compromising personal information of wealthy, powerful people and then using that to control them and keep them close. There's also these images of Bill Gates in the Epstein files that show Bill Gates standing next to women whose identities are unknown. Gates' spokesperson's explanation

is that Epstein would just ask him to pose for photos and that he didn't have any kind of substantive interaction with these women. The women were not introduced to him by name or by role. that Epstein would be like, hey, get next to this woman so I can take your picture. And Bill Gates would just be like, sure, go ahead and photograph me with these women. Epstein, person who has been convicted of sex crimes against minors for which you pled guilty. Make of that what you will. Again, I just cannot imagine a world where someone I know who has been, I mean, I can't imagine a world where someone I know has been convicted of this kind of stuff and I'm still around them whatsoever. But I cannot imagine a world where they're like, hey, take a picture with this young woman.

It's not for any kind of nefarious reason or anything. And me being like, sure thing, we'll do. No follow-ups. Yeah, I mean, if that's the official story, I don't know, man. Yeah, like, he's a known blackmailer. He's like, stand next to this woman so I could take her photo next to her. Why unimportant? Like, either, I just don't believe it.

Like, no outcome is good. Either Bill Gates is this manipulatable, stupid. naive, whatever you want to call it, which is not good, or he's lying, which is not good. I honestly, like, I don't know, I'm not sure which one is worse, but neither of those situations, I guess just being stupid and naive

and posing for a photograph with a woman and nothing untoward happened, I guess at least is not a crime, but does not make you look like a super smart guy, in my opinion? Agree. Was there anything else in the Epstein files released by the Justice Department that you might care to comment on

with regard to this story, Bridget? Oh, talk about, I'll just get into it. There is an email released by the Justice Department in the files in which Epstein appears to allege that he helped Gates obtained medicine to treat a sexually transmitted infection. Gates has denied this. That's, there it is. Maybe that's lesson number three about why you don't get mixed up with guys like this. Yeah, lesson number 1,000 about why you don't get mixed up with guys like this. this. So all of this did a ton of damage to Gates' personal life. I saw this interview with Melinda Gates,

Bill Gates's ex-wife, with Gail King, and you can find the interview very easily. So they divorced in 2021. In my opinion, it sounds to me as if Melinda Gates is saying without saying that we're not being told the whole story about what Bill Gates and Jeffrey Epstein got up to together. She says that the reason for their divorce was Gates' relationship with Epstein. When Gail King asks, like, can you tell us more? Is there something specific? She's like, you're going to have to ask Bill what I'm talking about. I can't speak to it.

To me, knowing how women speak, it seems very clear to me that she's trying to say something without saying something. Committee Chairman Comer said that Gates answered every question that was asked of him and that he thanked Gates for his philanthropy. But when asked about whether or not Gates expressed remorts, Comer said, quote, he regretted his brief relationship with Epstein. That's kind of a recurring theme. And one other note to keep an eye on.

Representative Stephen Lynch of Massachusetts said that Gates provided the committee with names of people in Epstein's circle who helped facilitate connections with Gates or his foundation. And it seems like that might significantly expand the scope of this investigation and could even potentially complicate Gates' legacy depending on who those names are and what they have to say. We don't know who the people are that he named, but it's definitely an ongoing story. Representative Robert Garcia said that the committee intends to follow every lead regardless of wealth or politics saying, quote, we don't care if they're a Republican, a Democrat, or how wealthy they are. And I'll just end on this idea that I was reading about in a piece of the post about all of this.

Despite all of this, humanitarian and aid organizations are sticking with Bill Gates and the Gates Foundation, which still remains the largest private provider of global health funding in the world. And especially now with the Trump administration slashing billions of dollars in global health and foreign aid and leaving these organizations really scrambling, it does sound like this partnership is even more critical. It's a tough reality to have to hold simultaneously. that Bill Gates's personal contact, which at the very, very best, is terrible judgment, you know, and at the worst, you can just imagine, that you have to sort of simultaneously hold these two truths that the work that they're doing because of cuts to funding work and global aid worldwide is really important. And the committee spoke to this. Representative Walkinshaw said, quote, in my mind, those two realities and facts. exist. I can't reconcile them. And I get that. That's hard. You know, it's, it's hard to live in a reality where this one person, the aid work they're doing is critical and made even more critical

by these cuts by this administration. But here we are having simultaneously having a conversation with the public face of all of this important critical, even more critical work is getting mixed up in all of this behavior that is at best, really unsavory and just, I'm just, an exercise and terrible, terrible judgment. And I think that's what's sort of hard to accept about all this is that the work of the Gates Foundation that is the public face of which is this one guy, Bill Gates, it is so important. And at the same time, we're having this person testify to the way that they behave in that work, in service of that work. It's, it is hard. It is, and it's so disappointing because the Gates Foundation has funded a lot of really important stuff and continues to.

And like you said, it's even more important now because so much aid funding has been cut. Yeah, it's just so disappointing to see, I guess, that somebody who could lead something so beneficial could also in their personal life act so unsavory. and also reckless, right? Like, because doing so jeopardizes all of that other work. It's a really sad story. And, you know, hopefully the Epstein's victims will get justice and the other powerful people who aided and abetted this will get their justice too.

Yeah, and I'm glad that you said that, and it's a great place to end, that people like to think that the way that powerful people behave in their personal life is divorced from how they behave in business or philanthropy or the way that they lead or govern. That's not true, right? The fact that this aid is so critical and it's being potentially threatened by the way that Bill Gates conducted himself personally and professionally because if you believe him in his testimony, he was hanging out with this convicted sex offender because he thought it might service his philanthropic work. And so it's all related.

I think that the sooner that we get away from the idea that when powerful people do something like this, that it's just, you know, one segment of who they are as opposed to an indictment of how they lead, I think that we will all be better served. You're here. So we are going to stop there. We have a few more stories to do. Please join us over on Patreon. We will put the link in the show notes.

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