There Are No Girls on the Internet - #FreeBritney as a successful online movement

Episode Date: December 17, 2021

Last month, Pop icon Britney Spears' conservatorship was voided in part because of a massive movement organizing online. Online organizing expert and CEO and editor of Ctrl AltRight Delete's Melissa Ryan says people who care about technology and the internet should be paying attention.Subscribe to Ctrl Alt Right Delete: https://actionnetwork.org/forms/subscribe-to-ctrl-alt-right-delete/ Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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T-A-N-G-O-T-I-I-C-S-Store. There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of I-Hart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Almost 14 years ago, a court deemed pop icon Britney Spears unable to take care of herself, placing her in a conservatorship that stripped her of control of nearly every aspect of her life, including her finances, her ability to drive a car or use an ATM, or make decisions about her own body. Last month, a judge ruled to end that conservatorship that Brittany and her fans have long maintained was abusive and traumatic. Brittany spoke up against the conservatorship to a judge. Here's what she had to say. I truly believe this conservatorship is abusive and that we can sit here all day and say,

oh, conservatorships are here to help people. Brittany's release from the conservatorship was sparked in part by the Free Brittany Movement, spearheaded by Britney superfan Megan Radford. The movement began in 2009 and aimed to draw attention to the singer's conservatorship. Largely organized online, the movement was made up of fans and advocates

from all over the world, pushing to end what they said was a predatory conservatorship, including a change.org petition for Britney's right to hire her own lawyer that got over 250,000 signatures. In Brittany's first Instagram post after her conservatorship was voided, she wrote, the Free Brittany Movement, You guys rock.

Honestly, my voice was muted and threatened for so long, and I wasn't able to speak up or say anything. I honestly think you guys saved my life in a way, 100%. But even though Free Britney was a pretty successful movement, largely organized online, it hasn't really gotten the same kind of attention as other online movements. I sat down with Melissa Ryan, friend of the show, online organizing expert, and CEO and editor of Control, Altright, Delete, a popular newsletter dissecting culture, extremism, technology, and the internet.

So, Melissa, you have been covering and following the Free Britney movement for a while, and I think that you have been covering it with a seriousness that I think it took a while for other folks to get to. What initially attracted you to this movement? Like, why were you following it so seriously? Well, I think I was aware of it for a while, and I thought of it just sort of like, oh, a thing that music fans are doing and is somewhat interesting. But the New York Times documentary was really, it was staggering to me, both that this had been going on so long that they were able to get folks on so many folks on the record, but also that this online movement had been growing and building for some time and wasn't necessarily being taken seriously. And there was, you know, they were clearly able to generate a lot of press stories. They were getting attention from other celebrities, but there just wasn't much sort of conversation among the serious people who love to talk about digital and tech things. And then when Spears did her first testimony in court, a couple of things became obvious.

One was her fans had clear, you know, this movement and her fans had clearly been part of what gave her the courage to speak up and to demand to be heard in a a public forum, but too, that the organizing had worked, that these folks, you know, whatever they were trying to get, they had scored just a huge win because none of this, I think, would have happened without their years and years of rallying online. And still, they were sort of treated in the press like, oh, these conspiracy theorist fans or these folks that have, you know, no life. And it was very disconcerning because this was a huge, win. I mean, you and I both work in politics. You don't get wins like this like they got. Absolutely. I mean, I really kind of see it as one of those classic stories that we cover a lot on

this show where at first people are dismissed as, you know, oh, they're crazy. They don't know what they're talking about, all of that. And then they're kind of proven right. And I feel like the Free Brittany movement is one of those stories where the most vocal folks were dismissed. Why do you think that is? Like, why was it so easy to discount these people? I think because a lot of her fans were women, and I think because a lot of her fans were LGBTQ. And I think there was the perception that a lot of them were very young because we think of music fans being young, although, you know, Britney is 40 now where I think she turned 40 last week. So it stands to reason that her fans are probably not as you. I doubt there are many teenagers that are listening to Britney Spears, except in the context of like their parents' 90s station. Maybe I could be wrong. I do think there's this perception that the people who are rallying around her and who are really intensely interested in her are just teeny boppers online. And I think that speaks to how we belittle and cast aside people who are marginalized as, you know, just teenagers online or

just a bunch of women collecting online, as opposed to this movement that really was lifting up questions about, you know, disability justice, reproductive justice. I see this story as hitting so many intersections of the work that you and I do as progressive organizers, you know, lifting up, you know, if somebody like Britney Spears can be mistreated in this way, what does that say for other people who might have disabilities? What does it say for other folks who want body autonomy and control over the reproductive choices? You know, that the second New York Times documentary that came out about Britney Spears, for me, was a real tech story about the surveillance apparatus that controlled her in her home. You know, I think it's really fascinating.

how it took kind of a while for folks to get on board with talking about this story in a way that really highlighted those important issues. Yeah, I think it would be interesting to dig into how folks who participated in this at various levels, how her story resonated with them, whether it was the conservatorship angle, whether it was the reproductive freedom angle, whether it was the way that women so often get dismissed or there's when women get so much access to capital and power. There are almost always efforts to try to take it away from them. Because I am guessing for a lot of folks, it's not just that they like Britney Spears' music, but they saw something or they related to something that was happening. In 2019, Britney's Graham, a podcast dedicated to deep dives and close readings into Britney Spears' Instagram posts, received a voicemail from a paralegal who said he was connected to Britney's conservatorship. According to him, Brittany was forced into a mental health facility against her will.

This created a firestorm of new support for ending the conservatorship. These, you know, women who had started this podcast devoted to Brittany's Instagram, which I totally get. I now follow Britney's Instagram. And I love that it's like a combination of her dancing and middle-aged mom memes. I don't know. I just, I spend so much time on Britney's Instagram now. It's amazing. Just if we're going to have that little tangent.

Like, I wish I had known about it years ago. But, you know, and that they were, you know, because they had this podcast, you know, someone trusted them enough to leave them this voicemail saying, you know, I used to work for this law firm and something that's happening to her isn't right. And just that they were able to build that much trust with people who were in her orbit just by, you know, being fans and the content they were creating. It's fascinating to me. It really is. And I mean, I've been following her on Instagram for a while and I love it. I love her spinning dance moves.

Love it. And even after the conservatorship has been lifted, just she's using her Instagram. to document these little things that I take for granted, like she made a post about getting to have an iPad and how free that made her feel. And I think it does an interesting job of illustrating what, you know, what the abuse of people who have disabilities can look like where it's like the little things that she didn't get to have access to,

didn't get to just like be able to be on her iPad. I think it can really put a face or an image on these issues. shoes. Or withdraw cash from an ATM. That was one of them where she talked about being able to get $300 from an ATM. And it's just sort of, you're so happy that she has that now, but it's like, oh, my God, 13 years of not being able to live as an adult while you are earning the money to pay all of your captors. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you

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Matt Gatz, while in the middle of an ongoing sex trafficking investigation, spoke at an in-person Free Britney rally. I really didn't understand what was happening. But Melissa says extremists co-opting cultural moments for their own agendas is nothing new. One of the things that you really did a nice job of pointing out is this weird thing that happened where at the height of the Free Britney movement, when there was all this momentum, we saw all of these right-wing, far-right extremists and trolls. I guess I would say co-opting it.

There was this time where Matt Gets was speaking at a free Britney rally. I showed up in a rally. What do you think was going on with that? Like, what was happening? That was something I ever seeing that in my newsfeed and being like, my brain can't even comprehend what this is? I need to just move on. Like, what was that? I mean, I tend to think of Matt Gates as a professional troll and sometimes congressman.

Like once in a while, he shows up to work at Congress. But most of the time, he seems to be like, where. can I get the most attention for myself, which is why he like goes to Wyoming to campaign against Wiz Cheney and, you know, the Free Brittany rally. And so I think he just saw a moment and was like, how can I exploit it to get attention for myself? And I think more broadly, that's sort of what the far right does. They don't really build culture. They steal culture. You know, it's like you see, they try to appropriate everything from Pepe the Frog, from you see them with Karen. And with Free Brittany, they saw an opportunity.

And one of the most amusing things to me was when her lawyer, we should definitely talk about the lawyer too, because that guy just looks like Atticus Finch. They just pulled him out of central casting. But when her lawyer was talking after the conservatorship ended, and he very specifically said, everyone from the far right to the left is supporting Brittany now. And I do appreciate how her lawyer took advantage of the fact that, you know, everybody and their mother was sort of glomming on to his client. Yeah. Do you think that we're going to see more of that kind of thing? Like, is that a common tactic of extremists to just whatever conversation is happening? How can I jump into that conversation and co-opt it for my own, you know, my own fucked up agenda?

Yeah, I mean, you see it a lot. And again, like, these folks, especially ones who are elected, who I think, you know, I'm especially obsessed with, like, these extremists who've managed to get themselves elected to office. they don't really have any interest in serving their constituencies. They really are constantly auditioning for Fox News, for Trump to try to create viral moments for themselves. So, you know, I think Marjorie Taylor Green was another one who all of a sudden cared about Free Brittany. There was a congressman in South Carolina who did a free Britney bill about reproductive about not being able to force someone to have birth control, probably not realizing that I know, I know. I was like, oh, dude, you're so close. So close. You have no idea.

But yeah, I mean, you're going to see a lot of that with pop culture moments. And we've been seeing it. I mean, how many movies that star women and people of color have the right freaked out about? You know, you see that with so much culture. And again, like, they're too lazy and too not creative to create their own culture. So when it comes to culture, like, they're always going to try to steal it. Yeah, that's something I've really been stuck on is the way that pop culture and things that we used to think of. as like, you know, diversions, how that is kind of become a new battle.

I don't say new battlefield, but just another battlefield to have these wars play out on. And to have people try to make a name for themselves. Like I think about the whole controversy around the movie cuties, things like that, where we're no longer having conversations about the film, the art, whatever. It's just a proxy for people to co-op this conversation and to make sure that the only chatter around it is in bad faith. I think there's such an anger on the right because culturally, you know, politically and in terms of raw political power, they are winning. They're winning big time. I don't think there would be any debate there. But in terms of pop culture, they're losing, I think, worse than they've ever lost. I mean, if you look at, you know, all of these entertainment conglomerates, they're working hard to have more diverse voices. You're seeing more writers of color, more casts of color. You know, we're not where we need to be, but it's certainly better than, you know, when you and I were young people. And they're just not able to create the same sort of pop culture moments the

way that they have been with like, if you think back to like the Super Bowl with Janet Jackson, if you think the things that the parent television council would get upset about. You know, it's just very hard to get folks to care. And corporate America has figured out for better or worse, there's good and bad to this, but they have figured out that more diversity and more inclusion makes them more money because they're reaching more audiences. So the right is just not going to have that mass media power that they have been used to having and they don't have the ability to influence conversation through mass media the way they have in the past. That's such an interesting point. I could see a lot of folks on the right. Yeah, the understandable reaction to that is rage.

Like, I don't have the influence in this space I used to, so I'm going to rail against it, or co-opt it if I can. It's all so disingenuous. And it's like, as you said, it's not creating culture. It's not it's not creating culture to co-opt another movement. It's not creating culture to, you know, turn a piece of film or a piece of art or a television show into a proxy war for your, you know, rage to play out in. It's in the absence of creating culture, I feel this is all they have. Yeah. Kind of sad when you put it that way. It is sad. And I actually don't think we recognize enough just how badly the right is losing the culture war. And again, it's because they have so much much power politically, but it's an interesting disconnect, and it'll be interesting to see how it

plays out. Yeah. So I guess one of my last questions for you is, as an online organizer and somebody who cares about the internet, are there takeaways that you see that we can glean from this, you know, pretty, I would say successful free Brittany online organizing moment? Yeah. I mean, I think you can't underestimate the power of internet movements to create not just political but cultural change. I think, yeah, we've talked about how we're going to continue to see the right, like try and fail to co-opt things like this. But mostly I just hope that I want to see what these folks who are involved in free Britney do next. There was a lot of talk when I've seen quotes in the press of we're going to get more involved in getting the conservatorship law

changed and reproductive rights. So it'll be interesting to see what the hardcore folks do around it. And then I'm also, I'm kind of interested to, you know, Britney Spears is someone who's had a career of not being political. Like, I think you, you know, she's from a red state. She is very careful, I think, and how always and how she talks about politics and issues. Like, I think she's been very smart about that in her career. So it'll be interesting to see what she ends up doing if she wants to be an advocate for disability rights or for women's rights. She may not want to. And by the way, she has every right to just live her life and not be the leader of a movement. But if she wants to do more with it, she clearly has a community that's ready to engage

with her. So that'll be interesting as well. Yeah, it's going to be really interesting to see. And I'm with you. I think I'm one of those people that if there's one thing I believe in, it is the power of women and LGBTQ folks and people of color who are fired up and have access to the internet and social media. Like big things are possible. Things I never, there are so many things in a million years I would have never thought I would see, but because somebody had the internet, they were able to make it happen. Somebody had the internet and a voice. And I think this is a great example of the power of that. And especially now when we're all kind of living our lives online more and more because of COVID, I think it's going to be an exciting time to see how that

bears out. Yeah. So where can folks keep up with all the amazing work that you're doing, Melissa? Sure. Well, I am on Twitter at Melissa Ryan. I, also have my newsletter, Control Altright Delete, which is free and comes out every Sunday. You can either find that in my Twitter bio, or you can go to control altright delete.com. Control Altright Delete is the most, I mean, I get so many newsletters. It's like the most useful newsletter. It's like if I want to know what's happening on the internet and what I should know, it's the most useful newsletter. So folks should definitely sign up. Oh, that means so much, especially coming from you. That's awesome.

Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer.

I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel.

Help an Acapella band with their Between Songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, and on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be? I call on my Gen X squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS.

Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to futas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex sometimes? They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. so let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Deanna Maria Riva on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

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