There Are No Girls on the Internet - “Hawk Tuah” girl and “plane cheat husband” hold a mirror to our broken culture

Episode Date: June 29, 2024

What’s the Deal With ‘Hawk Tuah’ Girl? https://www.thecut.com/article/hawk-tuah-girl-viral-tiktok-video-explained.html  Exposing Cheaters Isn’t Always a Flex https://www.thecut.com/article/man-cheating-on-flight-tiktok.htmlSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the stream. Cranges Criminal Alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unusings.

boss creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is there are no girls on the internet. So Mike, when we were talking about what I wanted to do for the episode this week, I was thinking like, oh, I think I want to talk about the presidential debate. I'm going to watch it live to see if anything comes up from it. And you actually early on were like, I don't know if that's what you're going to want to talk about. I don't know if that's what listeners are going to want to hear about. I don't know if the mood is going to want to hear more commentary on that. At the time, I was like, oh, I wonder why this is his position. Now I'm realizing you are 100% correct. Okay. Well, I'll take it. Yeah. I mean, by all means, we can talk about the presidential debate,

but I don't know. There's just so much coverage of it and so many people sharing their opinions about it. You know, your opinions are good and you have great takes on it. But I don't know. It seems like listeners can find that anywhere. They didn't, you know, if it doesn't really have a whole lot of immediate tangoity relevance, maybe we could talk about something else to give people some options of something else to listen to.

So I am very much avoiding presidential debate coverage. Instead, let's talk about something totally unrelated to take my and possibly, you person listening, your mind off of it. So let's talk about other people's mess. So we have talked on the podcast before about this dynamic where it feels like in our current digital media climate, surveillance is everywhere. Yes, I'm definitely talking about big tech surveillance of what we're all doing online, all of our data, but also individuals keeping tabs on the behavior of others, whether or not they want to or consent to being surveilled in that way. I think social media invites us to build a world off of the behavior of strangers to suit our needs.

All it takes is one little glimpse, one little peek into the lives of a stranger, and suddenly, everybody is building a world around what kind of person they think this person is, you know, casting characters, becoming very personally involved or invested, tracking down information, sleuthing information about them. And I think that we have a climate that is brought to us by social media. where people forget that people are people who deserve privacy. Like just because you said one little thing that happened to go viral or just because somebody maybe happened to see you possibly maybe cheating on your wife on a plane,

now millions of people are involved in your business and your marriage. We've kind of talked about this on the show before, but we've got a couple of new instances that have come up lately that I think really speak to what I'm describing. I want to talk about them and talk through what they might say about our culture. A quick heads up that all of these instances are kind of sexual in nature. So if you're listening with your kids in the car or something, just know that. It's not an explicit episode, but we are talking about sexual topics a little bit. So one of the reasons why I'm excited to

talk to you about this, Mike, is because I have a pretty good sense of your algorithms and like what kind of things come up on your personal feed and what pockets of the internet you're in and what pockets of the internet, I'm a thousand percent sure you have no idea. So I was going to ask you, have you ever heard of this next person? I already know the answer is no, and I'm excited that the answer is no. But I'll just ask you anyway, even though I know, when I say the phrase, haktuya girl, does that mean anything to you? It does not. It looks like perhaps it's Hawaiian. It means nothing to me. Okay. So the young woman that the internet has dubbed haktua girl is Haley Welsh. She's a lot. She's,

a young woman living in Tennessee, and she's walking around one night and she gets stopped for one of those, like, man on the street interviews, you know, where a guy with a camera and a microphone is, like, putting a phone in your face. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, sure. Makes for great content. By the way, if anyone ever approaches you with a microphone and a camera on the street in 2024, my advice is to run. My advice is to give them the Tanya Harding, no comment. I'll get into why exactly that is, but my advice is to not engage. So it is for a Nashville street show called Tim and Dee TV. It's an interview series where these two guys, Tim and Dee, interview like drunk people leaving bars and nightclubs on the street of Nashville, and they ask them for like wild and

crazy stories. So they ask this young woman, Haley, for a sex tip to make men go crazy in bed. And her tip is more or less that you can use spit as lubricant during oral sex. Solid advice. 10 out of 10. Love that advice. However, when Haley is sort of delivering this tip, she puts her own kind of enthusiastic spin on it. She says, you got to give them that quack twas. I'm not like giving it the gravitas that she gives it because it would involve making like deep throat noises.

And I think that's, if someone's listening to headphones, that's like the grossest thing you can hear. Not in like a sex-shamey way, but in a, it doesn't sound good in the ears kind of way when you're wearing headphones. So it needs to be seen to be understood if you haven't seen it. But she's essentially giving an enthusiastic portrayal of what it sounds and looks like to hawk up spit from one's throat. Does that make sense? You've described it accurately so that I'm able to recreate a picture in my. head of this video. I can't say it makes a lot of sense, but yeah, I know what you're saying. She says that one sentence, you've got to give him that Haktuya.

Everybody goes wild, instant virality. They start calling her Hock toya girl, basically based on the sound that she made when answering this question. What's one move in bed that makes a man go crazy every time? Oh, you got to give him that Hock Tuh and spit all that thing. There are millions of memes. Over the last week, the clip goes, mega viral. It is referenced by Joe Rogan, Howard Stern, a Phillies baseball team player, Bryce Harper. So I am deeply curious as to why this like short moment from a Nashville Street TV show took off globally like it did. I don't think that we have had a big, true, meaningful, like all caps viral moment in a long time.

Do you remember back in 2013, 2014, 2015, you know, we're like these, you would have these moments that were, very small that would go super viral. Like, again, I know you don't remember any of these because we were not in the same pockets of the internet. You were probably like in a tent camping somewhere. But damn, Daniel, back at it again with the white kicks. Does that mean anything to you? Yeah, of course.

Who could forget that classic video? Well, that was just a video taken in like a high school where this student would film his friend Daniel's outfits and shoes every day. And I guess he had a nice style, but it wasn't anything like super, I mean, it was nice, but it wasn't anything they're right home about. And so he would be like, damn, Daniel Beck at it again with the white kicks went totally viral. These kids were on the Ellen show. Like, it was like, when I say it was like a huge moment, it was a huge moment.

Like, I genuinely cannot think of a time more recently where somebody has had this level of instant internet fame from just one small thing that didn't happen in like circa 2014, 2015. I think part of it is because of algorithms and the right. rise of algorithmic feeds. Like, we are much more siloed online these days. And so, you know, the kind of thing that I am seeing all over my curated for you page is very different than the kind of thing that you, Mike, are seeing and you're curated for you feed, right? Like, we could live in completely different corners of the internet where never the two shall meet. Yeah, and I think we might. Am I remembering correctly that at least as of a few years ago, there is a small industry of PR or media consultants who would,

would create viral videos for you. They, like, studied the science of making things go viral. And so, you know, they would basically, like, apply a formula to try to make videos go super viral in this way that previously had been somewhat organic. I would argue that what kind of rose up and took that space that you're describing is the sort of fake viral video. The video that is hired actors playing out a skin. and there's a script that they know what their parts are.

And then that video is sold to us, the public, as the real thing, right? So when you watch these videos on social media where it's like a fight on a plane and you're like, you look at the background and you're like, what plane do you know that uses those LED light strips you can buy off of Amazon? No planes use that. This isn't really a plane. This is a set. I've seen one where it purports to show like a fed up mom telling off a trans teacher to

advocate for her kid. And then another video where the woman who was playing the mom is now the teacher. And it's like, teacher gets cursed out by mom. I would say what has taken the place of the sort of we can tell you how to go viral industry is the we make fake videos and live to the viewers about what they are seeing to go viral. That's like the new thing, I would say. So so many different people with different types of agendas displacing organic viral moments that could unite people. Or at least unite people in districts.

distracting them from maybe things happening in national politics that they want a little bit of a break from. Yeah. I mean, that's, I mean, if there's any common experience in 2024 in America, it's that we all could use a goddamn break. And it reminds me of another kind of viral video of yesteryear, and that was Chewbacca Mom. You're a Star Wars nerd, so you actually might remember Chewbacca Mom. Do you remember her? I'm trying. There's not much to it. Basically, she was a woman who bought a, Chubaka Halloween mask, and it's a mask where you open the mouth and it makes a Chubaca noise. And she puts it on, she's in her car.

And she just thinks it's the best. She's like just like laughing hysterically at this mask. That's really it. So this video also went super viral. This was May of 2016. And I often think back to Chubacca mom and why that went so viral. And I had to think back to like, well, what was going on in May of 2016? This was when Trump had become the jubaka.

GOP nominee. It was like Ted Cruz, I think, was the last holdout and he dropped out in May of 2016. And so it was like, oh, it's Trump. There was a lot happening with racial justice. The officers who killed Freddie Gray in Baltimore were not convicted. And you had the rise of the all right really becoming a thing. This was around the time where people like Milo Yanopolis, who we've talked about on the show before, were coordinating harassment campaigns of women around things like the all women Ghostbusters reboot, right? And so I remember. distinctively that time on the internet as feeling like not just bad, not just toxic, but like bad, bad, like the vibes were not good. And I think that in these times when everything feels

heightened and charged and really difficult online, we will always seize on any little thing that brings us out of that, even for a moment, even if it's silly. To be honest, kind of like what I'm doing right now, like leaning into pop culture, viral internet moments to avoid thinking about national politics. Yeah, I get it. So let's go back to talk to you, girl. I'm going to start calling her H.T. Girl, because it's a mouthful to say, no pun intended, but appreciated. So H.T. Girl is really capitalizing on her viral moment, which honestly, good for her. I think that is great and savvy. There were people saying that she signed a deal with UTA, which is not

true. UTA has confirmed that they don't have a deal in the works with her. There was even a that she had been fired from her job teaching at Epstein preschool. That's also not true. That was a parody news site that fooled people online. So no truth to that. She does not have a UTA deal, but she is being managed by Jason Petit, a Marshall County native who has known H.T for many years. So he did an interview with Rolling Stone and said that a day or two after the video started

going viral, he reached out to her because he was like, yo, you need to monetize this brand. So they are now making merch with haq-tois on it. They've got hats. They've got shirts. My whole thing is like, I'm so curious how they settled on a spelling of this because I've spelled it multiple different ways. I've seen it spelled multiple different ways. I'm curious, like how they decided like, okay, no, it's going to be hawk to you.

It's going to be spelled this way. That's going to be the branding. Yeah. That would have been an interesting discussion. Like, are you going to do hats? They're going to do bibs? They're going to do handkerchiefs. other adult accessories,

so many options. They sorted that out in just a couple of days, huh? That's pretty impressive, good for her, for capitalizing on this, but sounds like she was just drunk on her way home from the bar. Okay, so this has been viral for less than two weeks. In that time, how much money do you think that she has made on merch to date?

Let's say, $30,000. $65,000. Good for her. Sell those hats. That's what I'm saying. And also, by the way, not for nothing, Christmas is coming up. I'm just saying.

Go to tangoity.com slash hawk twa for a discount code. You can't. Actually, that doesn't exist. I just made that up. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

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Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for great. greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive?

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Search Learn the hard way and listen now. And we're back. So the person who reached out to become her manager and help her with these licensing deals with the hats and the shirts really pointed out that he wanted to make sure that some of the money from this virus, moment went back into her pocket, which is why they're doing the merchandising. He told Rolling Stone,

of course, she hasn't gotten a dime from the first viral video that went out. Nobody was asking permission for her to do nothing, neither. I just wanted her to get some of the profit from this deal. It does kind of sound like she is getting a percentage of the profits from the merchandising. He declined to share exactly what percentage goes directly to her, but he says that he suggested to her that she trademarked the phrase and that she's talking to a lawyer about it. So again, I am just purely glad that she is getting her coin because as we know, as we've talked about on the show, oftentimes people who are these viral sensations do not see a dime, whereas other people make money from their whatever viral phrase or viral thing they do, and they don't see a dime, especially if they're black, right? That is a common thing where, you know, the woman who was sitting in her car and was like, eyebrows on fleek didn't see money from that. That's kind of changed a little bit because she's gotten a few brand deals later on.

But in the beginning, everybody was making money off of that except for her. But even though H.T. is making some money off of this, it doesn't sound like it is all like roses and rainbows. People early on were deeply trying to track her down. She was doxed. They were finding her social media accounts, which she then deleted. And people were trying to track down where she worked. She might be a bartender. According to Rolling Stone, her manager says,

Welsh, who did not respond to Rolling Stone's request for an interview, is overwhelmed by the attention. And she has requested that he not share any personal details about her or feature her face on the merchandise. He says, there are some crazy people in the world who have reached out to her. She's probably one of the most well-known people in the world at this point, but I don't know if she's embraced it. So to me, that doesn't sound like something that is necessarily

the kind of thing that somebody was like looking for welcoming, right? Like maybe when you were drunk, you were like, oh, talking to these guys for their street show, why not? But like, who could have predicted the way that it would have taken off? So again, I'm happy that she was able to monetize this. But as this is all happening, the Daily Dot reports that she's kind of been intentionally laying low going back to a rural community in Tennessee. So I guess I'm, I guess my point is that I'm happy that she's able to make money. But one person being asked a question maybe when they were drunk after a night out is not expecting this level of screen. and attention for saying one sentence about oral sex on camera for this show. And this is why I say,

like, if somebody comes up to you with a camera and a mic in 2024, nothing good can come of it. Mate Nor Evans of the news outlet AS wrote a piece called Haktuya girl and other street interview subjects who go viral. What legal rights do they have in the content they appear in? And the answer is, really none. She talks about how these videos that sometimes do go viral will feature young people usually walking around town after a night out, she writes, with a few beers in their blood, they might even say things they regret, especially when they're offhand comments, we get a conversation online that put a huge spotlight on their life. That can feel invasive and overwhelming. And another good point to know about this kind of content is that if you agree

to be on a video like this and then you change your mind about what you said after somebody shoved a camera in your face that when you were drunk leaving a bar, you don't have a ton of recourse. Like you likely cannot get that content taken down even if you ask. Ultimately, my biggest issue with these kinds of man on the street videos is that anybody, anybody can get a camera and a mic to do this, right? When we were talking about the college campus protests, you saw young people declining to give interviews, not just to traditional media, but also to just sort of like person with a camera who I have no idea who this person is.

A lot of people were kind of chastising these youth being like, oh, well, how do they expect to get their message out if they're not giving interviews? But actually, they were being really smart because if you have not vetted who this person is, they could be literally anybody with any kind of agenda. You have no idea. And so if you are trying to put a curated message out into the world, you should not be talking to a rando, just putting a camera in your face, but you don't even know their name.

They could be anybody. As Mait Nore Evans puts it in her piece, with traditional media, there is an expectation that the interviewer is acting in good, faith, and when speaking to an ordinary person, present them in a neutral but respectful light. These street-style interviews don't always follow the same principles, and that all is captured in these viral moments. Yeah, that's such a good point that, you know, people taking part in some sort of interview when they've been drinking or they're out on the street, it is always a risk that anything

you say to a camera is going to appear on the internet and be there forever. And, you know, I think it's particularly fraught. in the particular context that H.T. Girl got caught in of, you know, at night, out on the street in front of a bunch of bars, it is appropriate to talk with other adults about sexual stuff. But then that same video played on everybody's TikTok algorithm in the middle of the day to, like, kids at school or like your parents, just people who are not in that context where it's no longer appropriate. Yeah, that's got to feel really crummy. and I can see how she would feel overwhelmed and wanting to hide from it. And ultimately, that is, like, really my issue

with this style of interview. The subject has no idea how it will be used. They have no control over how it will be used, and whatever framing is projected onto it after the fact, they just have no control over that. And I think that by definition, by nature, that is at its heart exploitative. Because it's not like H.T. Girl sees any money

from the millions of views and all the attention that that channel got from her vulnerable moment. You know, if she wants to capitalize off that, she is sort of forced to do a merchandising deal if she wants to make money from that. And I think that we should really be thinking about the ways that these viral moments kind of force people into a limelight,

I would argue, this is my opinion, that like, if you've been drinking and you are caught in one of those moments, you can't, you're not fully consenting to everything that comes next. Sure, she, you know, when they put a camera in her face, she answered and did the interview, but who could have ever imagined the way it would go viral, the way it would blow up? And so by nature, I feel like it's a little bit exploitative. And we should be talking about that side of viral moments, not just how funny they are, how pop culture,

zeitgeisty they are, whatever. Yeah. And also the people who like docks her and were trying to find her job. Like why? Like, what if those people did something else with their time? Yeah. If you go on Twitter, you have all of these people, I think a lot of of them are bots, to be honest with you, purporting to be like, oh, I found her only fans, or like there was video that I believe to be AI generated, but don't quote me on that, implying that they have found like uncensored content of her online. It just really speaks to this, this cottage industry that is so common in our current digital media climate, where when a woman kind of gets a moment of stardom, already you have people who are like in the woodwork trying to

capitalize on that. trying to be like, oh, you know, how can I make a quick buck? How can I get a little engagement from that too? And I think there's never been an easier time to do that than right now. Oh, that's so interesting. I didn't appreciate that aspect of it, but it makes sense. I was thinking that these were like moral scolds who were trying to sex shame her, but it actually makes more sense that it's like bots and scams.

It's bots and scams. Like, bots and scams 2024. Don't give your credit card information to anybody. Somebody puts her camera on your face. Pull your hoodie up and walk away. Just stay inside. Just stay inside. So all of this leads me to a semi-related but not actually related incident.

And I'm calling that the ESPN ice cream incident. This one is actually really simple. Two women go to a baseball game. They eat ice cream cones. That's really it. Story over end of sentence, period. Well, not exactly because ESPN decided to do a 20-second segment that it's just a close-up of these two young women eating ice cream.

And they obviously don't know they're being filmed like this. It's obvious that they don't know that it's like a zooming in on their face and on their mouths as they eat this ice cream with commentary. The commentators are doing play-by-play commentary of their ice cream licking. The commentator is like, oh, yeah, you got to lick that liquid before it melts. The whole thing, I mean, I don't want to pile on, but you get the drift. The video is published to TikTok, and it honestly does not take a genius to imagine what kind of comments people are leaving on this video of two young women eating ice cream. TikTok users start comparing the two young women to H.T girl, including one named Corey Kadell, who goes by Airboats of Oklahoma, saying, I think Hock Twas is about to get replaced. His video saying that got over 200,000 views before he deleted his account because one of the women in the video actually called him out on TikTok.

So one of the women who was videoed eating ice cream at this baseball game spoke up on TikTok. She said, it was just a 20 second segment of just eating ice cream or licking our ice cream. Annie said, 20 seconds dedicated with commentary to just us eating our ice cream. We all knew what direction that video was going to head it. And lo and behold, the creeps of TikTok got a hold of it because we woke up getting compared to the hawk twa girl, which no shade to her, girl do whatever. So I want to double click on that because I don't think that. she's trying to shame H.T. Girl for her viral moment, but just saying, like, what did her viral moment have to do with me? I have nothing to do with that other than I ate, other than,

like, I'm a woman existing in public as well. And so, yeah, I think it's important that none of this is to sex shame H.T. Girl, who actually gave very good oral sex advice. But the whole thing is just kind of gross. And I think it confirms that women are considered fair game to have our behavior scrutinized, surveilled, and sexualized, even if we are not doing anything inherently sexual. Yes, H.T. Girl decided to chime in for that interview about oral sex, but even then, I don't think it means that people should be able to comb through her social media for her personal information and, like, try to find out where she works and all of that. And the women at the baseball game were just eating ice cream. Their only association with

H.T. Girl is that they were all young women in public. But that is all it takes for somebody to decide that you are fair game to be sexualized, even if you don't want to be. So Annie, one of the women who was eating ice cream on ESPN said, it is beyond evident that women are not welcome in the sports world. We just wanted to enjoy a baseball game and it was 100 degrees, so God forbid be some ice cream. It's like we can't just sit and eat our food in peace. And I really feel for Annie because she says that at first she was kind of excited to

be, to have this on camera moment because she's getting texts from her friends who were like, hey, we see you on TV. But then, she says, but what's not a fun thing is to get text messages from other friends of disgusting people making TikToks about you. There are so many comments just like this one talking about ESPN does this every year. They always pan in on a woman doing it. And it's true because what is funnier than a woman licking an ice cream cone or eating a hot dog or something that can be overtly sexualized?

And I think that she's right that it really is about a deeper hostility to women in spaces that are traditionally considered as male-dominated. It reminds me of this other instance that happened a few years ago where I think it was a sorority. So it was a group of young women at a baseball game. And there was a moment where they all had their phones up and they were all taking selfies of themselves, like posing, doing little selfies, whatever. There was a video that like zoomed in on them.

And the commentator was making it seem like these girls were really vapid. He was like, oh, look at these girls, like trying to get the perfect selfie, blah, blah, blah. Really, I think leaning on some negative misogynistic tropes about women, right? What he didn't say is that, at the stadium, that moment actually was a selfie moment. So like on the Jumbotron, it was like, let's have a five second selfie moment. And so the Jumbotron instructed the entire stadium to spend a minute getting selfies. And those women were doing exactly that.

And to make it seem like they specifically were doing something that was like vapid, just really put this misogynistic sheen on them doing totally normal behavior that, in fact, the baseball stadium asked them to do. So I remember these sorority women, they really had an eloquent clapback. They were like, oh, we were doing exactly what we were instructed to do by the stadium. And if we're so vapid, how come our sorority actually has this, like, massive service focus? And, like, we do community service projects all the goddamn time. So, like, this negative attitude that the commentators had projected on it, they really did a great job of exposing, like, yeah, it's just misogyny.

It's just hostility to women in male-dominated spaces. Like, if I am not here to be sexually titillating you by my public presence in this space, I am here to be your punching bag for whatever misogynistic tropes you feel like throwing out this day. So I don't go to a ton of sporting events, but apparently when you are sitting behind the dugout, like these two young women eating ice cream on ESPN were, there was always like a higher potential for being on camera. But it was a very different thing, like being zoomed in on while licking an ice cream cone. the site awful announcing, which I did not know that a media entity existed to critical analysis of sports announcing, but I'm glad it exists.

They also pointed out something, which is that they say also bizarre was the fact that the same broadcasts briefly focused on a woman eating a lollipop less than 20 minutes after the ice cream incident. ESPN switched off the woman eating a lollipop after about three seconds, but not before the camera intentionally put her in focus. Weird. I'm sorry, that's weird. Right? Yeah. I mean, I feel like whoever was directing the videography that day really had something on their mind. I mean, you come to watch a baseball game and it turns into a who's licking what a thon. Yeah, seriously. I feel like you or I don't remember if you were quoting Annie really nailed it by, you know, it's just an opportunity for casual misogyny and sexualization, which I guess in the repertoire of. this videographer, maybe lots of sports people who are like, you know, directing where the camera goes to.

I feel like they're always looking for something interesting to put on screen like, oh, a cute baby, or like a guy eating a messy hot dog or a guy dancing or something. And it's unfortunate that casual misogyny and non-concentual sexualization are in that same mix of like fun tropes to put on the Jumbotron. Yes, yes, well said. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's that worst singer in the group. The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything? to the idea that because you're from Harvard,

you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged.

One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You love me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

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Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies,

and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds,

just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you here on earth? Or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Let's get right back into it. And again, the way that some of the people, not the announcers,

because the announcers were not the ones comparing her to H.T. Girl, but the way that commentators on TikTok, like that guy who deleted his account after being called out by one of these young women, the way that they engaged in this sexual fantasy world building, right? Using this 20-second video of women doing something totally humdrum to build out this sexualized fantasy world around these women,

what they might be like sexually based on like a 20-second clip of them minding their business. You know, it's all world-building. Yeah. And we might really go out of our way to be super generous to ESPN and the people who made this choice to put those women on there on the screen. Like maybe 20 years ago that would have hit one. way, like still not great, but maybe not like the worst thing, but in this new context that we live in where something like that is going to end up on the internet and even the most

subtle, non-overd wink to sexualization, once it gets on the internet, is fodder for this sexual fantasy world building that you're describing and opens the people up to a level of scrutiny that far exceeds what might have been possible, you know, 20 years ago during a television broadcast of a game. This is kind of unrelated, but that's actually how creeps circumvent AI guardrails to create sexualized, non-consensual deepfakes. So when those AI deepfakes of Taylor Swift, which depicted her at a sporting event, when those were going viral, the way that creeps generated them, because you can't just go onto an

AI image generator and say, like, show me a depiction of a famous person doing it. a sex act. What they did was they said, like, show me an image of Taylor Swift eating a hot dog or eating an ice cream, doing something that would look kind of sexual if you doctored it. And so they were getting those images that would depict an image of Taylor Swift doing something a certain kind of way. You know what I'm saying? And then edit those images to make them look more sexual. So it's interesting to me how whether or not it's using AI or it's just like, this is an image of a woman eating a hot dog or an ice cream, creeps are going to do some sexual world building around that regardless.

And that world bringing really brings me to the last instance that I want to talk about, which happened on a plane. So a woman on TikTok named Caroline Renad posted a TikTok of a man talking to a woman with the caption, if this man is your husband flying at United Airlines flight 2140 from Houston to New York, he's probably going to be staying with Katie tonight. She says this man met a woman at the airport bar convinced her to change seats with somebody else on the plane so they could spend the flight drinking together. Apparently they were going on and on talking about his job, his eight-year-old daughter.

Renad says, I wouldn't have known this man was married had he not been marrying his wedding ring. Do your thing, TikTok. Hashtag find the wife. Less than 24 hours goes by. Internet sleuths got everybody. They got the man. They got the woman. Everybody involved has been identified.

They tagged the woman's TikTok account, posted details about when the guy's plane landed, shared photos of the couple, their family. and other people were actually suggesting that they do the same for the woman, Katie, who allegedly was the woman this guy was talking to. So I got to say this. I saw a lot of people cheering this whole thing on, right? But I think we got to keep it real about content like this. I don't think that the people who make this kind of content are just trying to be like girls, girls, giving a girl a heads up, you know, out of the goodness of their heart. Maybe that's a little bit of a part of it. But let us be real. These people are making. content. They are trying to get engagement. This is something that is tailor made to get people buzzing and engaging with it online. That is what they are seeking. They are inviting strangers into the dramas and the real lives of other people completely uninvited. These people are not characters in some fan fiction. They are actual human beings who have jobs and

kids and communities. It would be one thing if Rened had tried to find this woman and like DMT her, but inviting the entire internet, millions of strangers into it, is a totally different thing. The cut put it really well. They write, Rened's video makes certain assumptions that Plain Guy is in a monogamous marriage, that his wife would be grateful to see his behavior publicly exposed, and that such a transgression warrant strangers posting her personal information online. But at a time when ethical non-monogamy and polyamory are on the rise, not every fort with a wedding ring is crossing a line. We don't know what rules Plain Guy and his white abide by in their personal lives.

Besides, if Renad really cared about this woman's well-being, why not track her down and send her a private DM? Instead, the video strips plain guy's wife of any agency, reducing her to a hologram onto which people can project their own baggage. While an online sisterhood has formed around the wife, it's unclear whether she wants that camaraderie. She hasn't recorded her own video expressing gratitude toward Renet and the internet sleuths or responding to any of the comments who have tagged her.

Instead, she's made. and silent, her TikTok account set to private. Yeah. What a terrible experience for her. I totally agree with that. This is way out of line. And I think it comes down to people, like, projecting themselves into this situation. And I think because this particular situation involves morality, cheating, and sex,

it makes it easier for people to weigh in on, I guess, or juicier for people to away in, I guess I should say. Yes, and, you know, that piece from the cut noted that it reduces the agency of the wife to like a non-actor. She has no agency in this story. So this whole narrative is also building on misogyny and the idea of her as like a dutiful wife left at home while her cheating husband is out living it up in the world. It just really smacks of the same tropes and I think requires them. Exactly. And, you know, I have been cheated on myself. I know that it's a charged space, to say the least. And I think that what we're seeing is a lot of people projecting their own

feelings and their own situations onto people that they've ever met. And again, that is, that flattens out this wife into just something to hang your projections onto. And She's a human being, not to mention a fucking stranger. She would probably prefer to not be the subject of national discourse about how her husband is cheating on her. Oh, absolutely. And, you know, there were a lot of comments on TikTok being like, oh, I wish that when my partner was cheating that somebody had done this for me. And I'm thinking, is that, do you really wish that? Do you really wish that millions and millions of people would know every aspect of your personal business

with your husband, not to mention your job, your boss, your co-workers, your family, and all have an opinion on it? Like, really think about what you're saying. Is that actually what you wish somebody would do? Probably not, right? Yeah. And do you want to have a conversation with your eight-year-old daughter about it? When somebody brings it up to her at school? Like, oh, because people were digging into their families. I was like, oh, I saw a picture of you and your dad on TikTok. Heard he's cheating on your mom on a plane. Like, is that really what you wish had happened? Probably not. Yeah. And like you mentioned, this has nothing to do with Renad, the woman who made the video, trying to genuinely help out the woman who is allegedly being cheated on.

And it's just all about her getting clicks for herself. Yeah, I mean, I think it's possible there is some aspect of her that is like, I hate cheaters, blah, blah, blah. But I think that we've got to be real that we're not, like, this idea that it is a digital sisterhood, I just really reject that. I don't think that that is what's really going on here. You know, it really doesn't sit right with me because you know what?

My sister wouldn't do. My sister probably wouldn't publicly blow up my life in a way that now everybody, my whole community and a bunch of strangers now get to have an opinion on it. It reminds me of in a corporate office when you're sitting down for like an all-staff meeting and the CEO is going on and on

about how we're all a family. And it's like, we're not a family. People get fired from this company all the time. And that's fine. It's a workplace, but it's not a family. This idea of a digital sisterhood feels very much like that, where like, oh, we're all sisters here, unless you screw up and then you're going to be on like the outs, the receiving end of all this negative attention. Because actually it's not about solidarity or sisterly feelings at all. Well, I would actually argue that it's not about sisterly feelings.

and it's really about individual comeuppance. And like, I think that I've seen a lot of people who have gotten involved in this narrative. They are at once the sleuths who have, like, assigned characters out of these strangers that they don't even know. And then they have projected this jilted wife story onto this situation while also kind of recasting themselves

as the jilted wife. So I think it's a lot of people who are like, I have been cheated on, it sucks. I want to kind of get my vengeance by playing that out in the lives of these strangers. And it really reminded me of this research paper that came out in 2020 called TikTok and the algorithmized self, where the researchers basically argue that TikTok is unique from other social media platforms because it is less about connecting with a network of friends and more a site built on, quote, a public performance heavily built on interpersonal engagement while creating content

for an algorithm. And so essentially it's this like big digital sandbox that invites make believe. They write, the unplanned back and forth motion between creators makes the app an incredible social playground. TikTok users play and perform in simulated characters and setting. The video app is an escape from reality. So basically all of these people are using these strangers and their lives to play out little dramas that they also get to be very invested in.

And I think it's even juicier because who doesn't like getting to be the morality police around it to get to like, really moralize and scrutinize and judge the behavior of people you don't even know. Everybody loves that. That's like the basis of so much on the internet. And so I understand why it's kind of irresistible, but also people need to understand that this is real people's lives that they're dealing with, people that don't even know. Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if people could just like respect the privacy of consenting adults?

Wouldn't it be nice? So the whole situation reminded me of this phenomenon that we've talked about on the podcast before, that Dr. Jenna Drinton, Associate Professor of Marketing in the Quinnellan School of Business at Loyal University of Chicago, who studied social media behavior dubbed the TikTok tabloid

in which we are all players and characters in a tabloid magazine because of TikTok. She writes, users collectively manufacture and dramatize stories like an investigative gossip reel. Traditional tabloids place

the lurid limelight on celebrities and public figures, but the TikTok tabloids target everyday people. You know, Dr. Denton, out how all of these devices like, oh, we're having a part two and having to be cliphangers, all of this is sort of these dangling of tantalizing bits of stories where it really invites the listener or the watcher to like continue to give their engagement and to follow along and get involved. And of course, the more of this content that we consume, the more we are training

algorithms that is the kind of content that we want to see and engage with. You know, it's this constant cycle that I really deeply think we need to. to be moving away from. And to me, it all comes down to consent, right? Like, H.T. Girl might have volunteered to have that moment on the street, but first of all, was she sober? Because I feel like you can't really consent to something if you're drinking. Could she even fully consent to what actually ended up happening with it blowing up the way that it did? You know, I'm curious to hear other folks' opinions about that, but I would argue no. You know, by buying a ticket behind the dugout at a baseball game and then eating an ice cream cone, these women on ESPN did not.

consent to getting a flood of sexualized messages on social media, you know? And the woman whose husband was taking a flight, talking to another woman on that flight, certainly did not consent to having strangers publicly invite themselves into her marriage. And, you know, the internet has connected us in new ways that we never dreamed possible. But I will die on this hill. Maybe we all should be okay with just knowing a little bit less about each other. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You could reach us at Hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com.

There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tarry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Another podcast from some SNL. late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown quote. Paul changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story

behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, Slice Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them

and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you Get Your Podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I Heart Women's Sports. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported

on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle. with grace. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.