There Are No Girls on the Internet - How can we change Facebook? Try logging out for 3 days.

Episode Date: November 9, 2021

Thanks to whistleblowers like Sophie Zhang and Frances Haugen, we know more than ever about the harms Facebook has caused in our communities. But what can we, as just regular people, do about it?Kairos, an organization that builds power for Black and brown people online, says we can start by logging off of Facebook for 3 days. Jelani Drew-Davi, Kairos Campaign Director explains why they’re calling for a 3 day national boycott of Facebook. LISTEN to Sophie Zhang’s full story: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-be-a-whistleblower-with-sophie-zhang/id1520715907?i=1000539829571Ready to log out of Facebook? Take the pledge: https://thefacebooklogout.com/  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than adds supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

Learn how podcasting can help your business. Call 844-844-I-Hart. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed.

You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in till he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast. and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel about anxiety. I started living in my car, and then my car got stolen. I was having panic attacks. I was agoraphobic. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations

about what happens when the brain goes off course. Listen to Intercosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are no girls on the internet as a production of IHeart Radio and UnBossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, And this is there are no girls on the internet. Last month, we heard from former Facebook data scientist turned whistleblower Sophie Zong

about the ways Facebook has spread harm. Now, her entire story from taking a job at Facebook to deciding to blow the whistle on the company at great personal risk is worth listening to. Here's a clip. When you think about Facebook, are you, is there part of you that it's hopeful? Do you think that it can be saved? Can it be a force for good? Or is it just too late?

It's very attractive for people to say, the world is fundamentally totally broken and can't be fixed, therefore I'm not going to do anything, and thus it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, and then you can say, I was right, nothing changed. Because in the end, nothing will happen, and as we the people make it happen,

because if everyone writes it off and says it's Facebook, it's broken, then what's the point? We already know that. It's already awful we can't do anything. Then that will become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and no one will change. And because no one was up for where to fix it or change it in the first place. And so the question of, will anything happen, that's really up to us.

It's up to yourself. It's up to me. It's up to the people listening. So what can we do? How can we, just as regular people who use the platform, hold Facebook accountable? It can sometimes feel like we don't really have a lot of power against a billion-dollar global tech company like Facebook. But Kairos, an organization that builds people, power for black and brown communities online is hoping to change that, starting with asking everyone to log off of Facebook starting November 10s. 98% of Facebook's revenue comes from ads targeted at us, just regular people who use Facebook. That means their revenue depends on our regular use of and engagement with the platform. Now, Kairos is not asking people to delete

Facebook. Instead, it's more like a strike. The Facebook logout campaign, is an attempt to harness the economic power of consumers to directly impact Facebook's bottom line. And for Jalani Drew Davy, Cairo's campaign director, it's all about power, taking it away from tech billionaires and building it for marginalized people.

So first of all, how did you wind up doing the work that it is that you do? Like, how did you get to where you are right now? Yeah, I smile because I'm like, I don't really know either, but I was, an organizer, grassroots organizer for a while. And I decided that I needed the break a little bit. I think it was really, I lived in Richmond, Virginia in 2017, Charlottesville and all the things. And I was kind of deep in it. And, you know, we get burnt out as organizers. And that's what happened to me as a grassroots organizer. And my friend was like, hey, well, you should do

digital organizing. I was like, what even is that? I decided to apply for the Cairo's fellowship. We really got skilled up in what digital organizing was in a way that I think is very different because it's focused on racial equity and equality and really about changing the field of digital organizing and putting black and brown people into it to do the work for our people.

And I kind of fell in love with taking down big tech, which is a strange sentence to say, but something, you know, I like to make CEOs have a really bad day. And I'm happy to have landed full circle back at Kairos now that we campaign, running campaigns at the intersection of tech and racial justice. Joni, you and I have been on so many calls together, so many different coalition being together. We have been talking about making, like, tech billionaires, having the worst, making them have a bad time for a very long time. And it's interesting that we're in this moment where a lot of the public is kind of catching up to us. You know, Facebook has had a really intense couple of weeks in terms of, like, all of this stuff that we have known for a while becoming public in these very specific ways.

What are your thoughts on just like what we're seeing coming out of Facebook with these whistleblowers and, you know, all of this, all of these revelations that we've known for a while being made so painfully clear to folks who might not have been so aware. Yeah. I don't think I've seen a time since maybe Cambridge Analytica and like that first whistleblower that we saw come out where it's been so much attention on Facebook. And I think in the last, I don't know, year with COVID misinformation, with an election happening last year of January 6th, that has all changed, like you said. I, you know, personally, I'm like, where were y'all at? And, you know, professionally, I'm like, let's go. Let's organize people. Let's get all people to, you know, really take back their power. This is definitely a different moment in time where, you know, we're seeing Facebook's direct harm on children, our society, our democracy. And, you know, people are really desperate, I think, to be able to do something about it. It's so interesting that you use the phrase, take back our power. I think before I was very involved in, like, platform accountability work, I just had this blanket assumption that as a person who used social media, a person that used technology, I had no power. Like, who was I to tell the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world how to run these, these platforms that I didn't fully understand how they work. Like, I'm not a software engineer.

I'm not a data person. And I think that for me, what really clicked was this. change of like, well, actually, it wouldn't exist if not for, you know, the people who use these platforms. And so if we amassed together, we actually do have power. And when I started thinking like that, I was like, why was I so quick to believe this fiction that people who use social media have no power and have no right to say, you know, what their experience on these platforms look like. When they are the lifeblood of these platforms, they wouldn't exist if not for users. Yeah. And it's it's this thing, I think, that, where,

tech companies want us to think like that. Like Facebook wants us to think that we're just just a user and we are just someone with a profile when that's not actually true. We are the reason why they make money. We are the reason why they are even existing in the first place. And so even beginning to shift your understanding of your power when it comes to social media platforms and technologies that we use is huge. Like that is a huge win, I think, if we could start doing that for in mass amounts of people. Yeah. I mean, so let's talk about that a little bit. I know that Kairos is doing the logout Facebook campaign, which I'm so excited about.

And it seems to be just one avenue that folks, just everyday folks using social media, can start to take back some of that power. Can you tell us a little bit about how that campaign came to be? Yeah, for sure. So, you know, this campaign was really born out of frustration. It has borne. You know, when you go to our website, the Facebook logout.com, the first thing you're going to see is we're really over Facebook. And that was the first thing I think I typed when I was planning this campaign. Like, I'm really open. So we're not out of that kind of spirit of we don't want to do any more talking to people on the inside,

although that is a lane where I think a lot of people are doing a lot of great work. But we don't want to do that. We don't want to continue to put out little fires here and there or big fires here or there. what we want to do is find a new angle to really try to take Facebook and, you know, hold it accountable. And that for us was users. That really, I think for us, it's a people power thing. Like when we do think about Facebook, we do think about Facebook users. And like you said before, users are, I think users and people, we're not aware that we have power over these like things in our pocket that we scroll through every day.

And so for us, it's, you know, part changing people's minds, changing people's orientation to a platform like Facebook, but also getting people to take and go from, you know, a pledge like pledge to log out to actually take the action and log out with us for a couple of those days of November. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to,

they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think IHart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-844-I-Hart. What's up, fam? Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining. the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Will Ferdell from PodMeets World. And now the Pod Meets Twirled podcast.

We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor.

I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Yeah. Just because we... Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion in the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay

to the desperate plea to the finalists to a bunch of... Ha, hoo. Ha ha, ooh. Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune in to PodMeets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirl on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. One of the tensions that I feel as a digital organizer is that I have a Facebook. I barely use it, but I have Instagram where I'm active. The reason why I still have Facebook is because, you know,

some of the organizing spaces I'm in, a lot of that work happens on Facebook. And that's a real tension that I feel around being on the platform at all. So I guess do you ever, like, how do you navigate that tension of like asking people to take these steps to divest from Facebook in this way,

but knowing that some people use it for things like, you know, organizing. Some people use it for communicating with, you know, friends and family outside of the U.S. Like, how do you navigate that tension of, oh, man, Facebook is really created an ecosystem where so many of us really do have to rely on it, but we maybe don't love that, that this relationship that we have with Facebook. Yeah, totally. So I also have a Facebook that I don't really use. I'm on Instagram though, and I joke that I'm part of the problem, but like, I'm part of the problem. So, but even doing this work, you know, there is a real tension and we talk about it all the time.

Internally, we also talk about it to people who, you know, respond to our email saying, hey, I use this for my small business. I use this for organizing. And so that's why we're not saying delete Facebook. We're not saying just delete it, leave, and figure out what you're going to do afterwards. We're saying, you know, use your power to essentially strike from Facebook, you know, as workers would strike, like how Amazon workers, you know, were on strike. So, you know, we're definitely not going to a delete Facebook route. I think the tension is an interesting one. And I think,

you know, looking forward in a more visionary way, I'm interested in having more conversations with people who do log out of like, okay, if Facebook is not the place where you want to be or not a place that is going to be better for us, then how do we create a world where we're where tech is working for us, where social media platforms are working for us. So we definitely hear, we definitely hear that organizing, like a lot of black and brown people organize on Facebook, we definitely hear around businesses. And so we're not expecting people just to up and leave, but we do want to encourage people to take back their power in those couple of days. And, you know, from there we will see and we're hopeful that we can start

of building a new future. I really like that. Yeah, I think, you know, I almost sort of think of it as a kind of like harm reduction. Like I have Facebook, but I don't have it on my phone, so I don't get any kind of notifications from it. When I need to go to Facebook, I have to go to my computer, open up the browser, type in Facebook.com, and hit enter. And even that, at least for me individually, creates a little bit of a barrier where it's not

just buzzing in my pocket. all the time. And so little things for me, you know, helped me create the conditions just in my own personal life so that Facebook didn't have such a tight grip on my, the way that I understood discourse and community and how I kept in touch with those, right? And so I didn't outright delete it, you know, but just finding these little ways that works for me to make it less of a part of my daily life. And honestly, so another one that I did was I stopped hosting on Facebook. I rarely make a Facebook post. And I think I usually tell people,

once you delete it from your phone and you stop making posts, you'd be surprised how little you care what's on Facebook. You're like, you log in and you're like, oh, it's the same three people having the same silly argument that I don't care about. And for me, that really helped loosen the grip that Facebook had in my own life. Where I was like, yeah, why do I care what like Megan from my Spanish class in ninth grade said about whatever? Like, I don't even know these people. Like, it really created this.

way for me to make Facebook less a part of my like overall um diet I guess and so I think asking folks to log out for a couple of days is a good way of being like listen we're not saying delete it altogether we're saying temporarily get off of it and maybe even use that time to assess the role that it plays in your life overall yeah for sure I think there's definitely a more like mental health um and like digital kind of wellness part of this for sure. sure. And I also think that even, so two things, I think, you know, when Facebook shut down, the glory of six hours when Facebook was not online, we really did see how many people were relying on this thing and not just in the U.S., but globally. And the global part was really

striking because, you know, there's countries outside of the U.S. where you open the internet and it's Mark Zuckerberg's internet. And or if you use WhatsApp, for example, that is only way where you can communicate. And so, you know, that's a part of the reason why we're saying, like, you don't have to delete it. It's because we know it's so integral to people's lives. And then I also will say that, you know, I was reading an article today around, I think Facebook banned a developer who created this tool to help people unfollow their feed, like have an unfollow, I guess, thing in their feed to unfollow friends and pages and those sort of things. they came with cease and desist energy for this person.

They sent legal people after them and banned them from Facebook, I guess, for a life or for a very long time. And that is the thing that we're trying to point out. So even if Facebook cares about their engagement and even if you take three days off, that's going to matter to the company. which means, like, you do have power for sure. And go outside, take a walk, all those things when you log off with us in November. What are the demands that y'all are asking of Facebook? I know that you're asking for people to log out for three days, but then you have specific demands that you're making of Facebook.

Can you talk us through some of those? Our demands are really focused on kind of stemming the harm that's happening now. So we know we need an immediate removal of Mark Zuckerberg as CEO. he's doing a lot. Straight, straight fired. You want him done, gone. Like, gone. You know what I mean?

I would make a reference to the apprentice, but I think that's like we can't, we can't really do that. So, you know, we're just going to say fire. Fired, yes. Out. So, yeah, that is one of our demands. You know, he is both CEO and chairman.

He holds a lot of power in the company and he's making disastrous decisions. And it kind of stems from him. And then other other demands go over content moderation policies. So we would like to see an overall of their policies. We want implementation of privacy-centered data policies, a strategy for combating disinformation that doesn't prioritize their bottom line, that actively remove disinformation that is harmful to folks.

And these are just kind of like, the tip of the iceberg. We, you know, see this as the beginning of a long-term fight to ensure that Facebook is, like, a safe place for people, communities to gather. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again.

More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear you. your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-i-heart. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His

IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing That man, hell get the flying, he running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball, like,

after you go through a training camp with that, I said, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's Ryder Strong, and Will Ferrell from PodMeets World.

And now the Pod Meets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you, I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Like what was just because we? Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion in the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay, to the desperate pleas of finalists, to a bunch of

who, ha, ha, who, ha, who. Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. In terms of like asking him to step down, I feel like there aren't a lot of people calling, there aren't a lot of organizations calling for Zuckerberg to step down, which is, interesting when you think about like what a terrible job he is doing at his if you or I was as bad at our jobs as Zuckerberg is, we would have been fired a long time ago. And so it's interesting how it feels to me that a lot of people are not calling for him to step down or be fired. And I love

that y'all are just right out the gate. He shouldn't be allowed to be a decision maker anymore. or he's proven himself to not be a responsible, you know, leader of this massive, you know, massive platform. Yeah, I mean, if I was as bad as my job, you know, I would be gone. If I even thought about being as bad as he was, people would have be fired, for sure. And that is, I think that is on, you know, what we've already touched on around people don't think that that is an ask that they can make. And it's not something new that I think I've heard in spaces that were. in. Like there's organizations, mostly organizations of people of color who have been like,

yo, this dude has to go, you know? And so that is one of our demands because he's, he is just doing the most and not in a good way. Like he is failing to keep people safe offline and online. And, you know, we just, we don't want it anymore. When we think about, you know, some of the harm that we know that Facebook has been responsible for. You know, you have to say, is there anything that surprises you or shocks you about some of the harm that we know Facebook has been, you know, party to? I think at this point, nothing shocks me when, you know, these reports come out. I'm like, yes, of course they have. But something that was, like, striking recently was the information around Instagram and youth and specifically teenage girls.

And that, I think, hit home for a lot of parents and a lot of people who, like, were teenage girls or are teenage girls or just young people on the internet because, you know, so much of, I think, being young and being on the internet is, like, identity formation. I know for me, like, I was on Tumblr figuring out, like, what is my sexuality? Like, what is gender? Oh, there's multiple genders, cool, like, all those things. And I can't imagine being on Instagram at 15 or 16 or even 10, 11, 12, like kids are now, and being fed really, really harmful information and then trying to go to school and do all the other hard things that middle and high school do. And so that was something that was super striking, but I don't think it was surprising. I'm the same way, right?

I came of age on the Internet if it wasn't for, you know, America Online when I was. I was 14, I would have never, I would have never kind of, it was a, it was a real place of self-discovery. And I think there was not, I didn't have the sense that it was like a marketplace for my chain and for my negative experiences where someone was going to be making money, incentivizing me feeling bad about myself. And I know the kind of teenager that I was, if that had been the case, I don't know where I would be. I don't, I know that I know that I would not have had the ability. It worries me.

It's one of those things where I'm like, wow, I'm really lucky to have come of age when I did. And I think that our generation, like the generation that is coming of age online today, they deserve a media land. They deserve to come of age in a media landscape that is not a marketplace for their pain. And we're so lucky that it wasn't like that when we were coming of age.

And they absolutely deserve to grow up in a landscape and find themselves online. and have these online experiences that can lead to self-discovery and can be so self-affirming. They deserve that just like I got. Yeah, absolutely. And they deserve to know that there are people that are doing that for them. And I'm not even just talking about groups like art groups, but I'm talking about the actual companies. Like, well, they were talking about Instagram for kids and responding to the Wall Street Journal reports,

Facebook, which is like, well, it wasn't that bad. we didn't really know or do it? And it's like, do you all hear yourselves? Like, do you know children? Have you seen a child that all you have children? Like, I'm so confused over why you think this is okay. But yeah, kids deserve to create communities online that are safe for them. And that is part of the future that I want to see.

So when you think about the future of our digital landscape, are you hopeful? Are you, like, pessimistic? Like, what are your thoughts? I have to be hopeful. Like, otherwise, I wouldn't be in this work. And I would be out real quick. So I'm hopeful, and I'm hopeful because there's groups, you know, not only ours, but our partners, who really think about this stuff in a way that is visionary.

And I really see more and more that technology issues are integrated into different other issues. So, you know, for example, we have green groups signed on to this campaign. We have groups like ultraviolet that are working on this campaign. And we, you know, have groups coming from not just a civil liberties or tech accountability angle. They really see the intersection. So I feel hopeful. I feel like one day we're going to take down Facebook or make something beautiful that's otherwise. And it's going to be great.

Well, I'm glad that we have folks like you. on our side on this fight. If folks want to join us in the campaign, they can go to the Facebook logout.com, take the pledge, sign up, and we'll see y'all in November for a glorious three days. Log out of Facebook, taking our power back.

Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoati.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoity.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeart Radio and unbossed creative.

Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Dodd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Lerner, Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry.

You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast. and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel about anxiety. I started living in my car, and then my car got stolen. I was having panic attacks. I was agoraphobic. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations

about what happens when the brain goes off course. Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Shanti Plummer from Fud Around and Find Out. This week, Azee Fud and I, that down with Step and Curry. Step talks pressure, confidence, and what it really takes to stay great. There's different categories, I guess, on like conditioning, shooting drills where you try

to simulate kind of games. Look at her face. We have a love-hate relationship with those because you know you're getting something out of it. You don't look forward to those days. Listen to butt around and find out on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.

Guaranteed Human. Thank you.