There Are No Girls on the Internet - Is the internet making us all lonelier? (w/ Tinder Live's Lane Moore!)

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

There’s no denying that dating apps, social media, and smartphones have changed the way platonic, romantic, and sexual relationships play out in all of our lives. But it’s more than just that! Making meaningful friend relationships can be tough because of *everything* we’re all dealing with.   Comedian and author Lane Moore explores how we all make friendships now and her new book You Will Find Your People.    CHECK OUT LANE’S NEW BOOK: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/you-will-find-your-people_9781419762567/   Wanna support the show and get AD FREE bonus content? Patreon.com/tangoti See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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business. Call 844-844-I-Hart. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. Timbo, in every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. So much stickier than most people talk about. They're just like, oh, the social media.

I'm like, oh my God. It's not that easy. It's not that simple. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

I don't think I have to tell you that social media and the Internet has changed the way our relationships work and in turn, the way we feel about those relationships. Now, if you've ever been scrolling through social media, feeling like everyone you know is out at brunch or going on a beautiful wine tour with their close-knit group of girlfriends,

while you're home alone again, then you know exactly what I mean. But it's more than that too. The rising cost of everything can leave us feeling like we spend all of our time working so that when we're not working, rather than spending time with friends, we just want to be recovering from all that work.

Not to mention the pandemic. When COVID happened, I kind of felt like I forgot how to make friends. Everything just got so much harder and on top of it, we're all exhausted. So yes, it's social media, but it's also everything. This is Lane Moore's domain. Lane is a comedian and author whose work examines how people's relationships are shaped by the internet.

Her hit show, Tinder Live, recreates the chaos and calamity of swiping on a dating app IRL in front of a live audience. Her book, How to Be Alone is a bestseller, and her new book, You Will Find Your People, examines the role meaningful relationships play in our lives. Because even though we're often told to build our whole selves and whole lives around romantic partnerships, what if we treated friendships as the center of our lives too? So, Lane, I have to sort of start by just generally where the work began for you. You make live comedy and art and you write about things like connection, particularly online. How did this come to be? How did you come to be someone who thought critically about how we are forming relationships? Well, you know, what they often say is true, which is that, you know, there's that phrase,

I don't know if you've heard it, but it's like the healer's wound is often their gift. And I feel like that's where it comes from, you know, there's no other way to sugarcoat it. It's not just like, I always, that connection was interesting. My relationships were always really easy and great. I never struggled ever. No, I was interested in it because, you know, I had a really rough time growing up. I was on my own for almost my entire life. And so, you know, I really longed for that sense of community and connection and this, like,

sense of family and friendships and all these things that I was seeing on TV that I didn't necessarily feel in my life. And I felt so alone through most of my life because I was like, oh, I'm seeing on TV and in media and all these things. Everyone has the best family ever. Everyone has the best friends ever. and, you know, everybody has the best romantic partners. Of course, I wasn't thinking about that.

Maybe it's six. But still, you know, you're seeing everybody has it but you. And, you know, I looked at it, fortunately, from a place of curiosity as a kid even, where I was just like, hmm, how do other people's families work? How do marriages work? How do other people's friendships work? I just part of it, I think, was interested in just interested in how people connect how they or they don't. And, you know, just wanting that very deeply. Also, I'm sure

that's where that curiosity came from. So now I, so much of this work that I do is because now that I'm an adult and now that I've written several books and comedy shows and all these things, I know I'm not the only one who has struggled like this and who has felt like nobody gets this. It must just be me struggle with that kind of shame. that, oh, if I'm the only one struggling with this, I'm bad, I'm unworthy, all this stuff we do to ourselves that I've done to myself. So, yeah, it really came from some real shit, essentially. Yeah, I saw a picture on your Instagram that was like the balloons and it spelled out, you've got a funny personality. Thanks, it's all the trauma. I think that's so spot on.

So when you were young, maybe you felt like you didn't have the family connections that you saw on TV. You know, as you got older, did you feel the same thing about kind of the friendship connections and the romantic connections that you were seeing kind of all around you that didn't match what you actually felt like you had in your life? Absolutely. For so long. I was just like, and I wanted it so deeply. I was such a empathetic, open person who just wanted these deep connections so much. you know, it was very strange for me. And especially, too, you know, one of the things that I realized as well when I would go to school and I'd be like, oh, well, I'm going to like make my chosen family here. Yeah, I've heard that's real. And then you go there and you're like, oh, no, everybody kind of needs you to act a certain way. There's all these unspoken ways that you're supposed to be a person. And I always felt like I was too, too much. I was like I was a little too much. I felt things very

deeply and I was very sensitive and very expressive and those people are not usually super popular at that age. That's not, you know, you're supposed to be kind of cool and aloof and, you know, never struggle with mental health stuff. Like that is not an age to be different or way too mature for your age. None of that stuff is appreciated. Yeah. I often think about how much time in my life I spent pretending to be like really chill or to even not have feelings, you know, both in my relationships with family and friends, and then especially in romantic relationships when you're like in your 20s, I don't know who out there is telling women, like, what men want is someone who is super aloof, doesn't make attachments, is chill,

and that's what you need to be, even if everything inside of you is screaming how you're not chill and how you do want attachments and how you do care a lot about this. And so you want it, you have expectations, you have needs. Heaven forbid you be a 20 year old woman looking for a man and have needs that you have articulated. It's like the worst, like, you may as well climb into a grave and die. Yes. No, and it's so, so I talk about this. And my first book was called How to Be Alone if you want to and even if you don't and explored so much of this. And there's a whole chapter where I literally go on a rant that is exactly in line with everything you're saying because it is so correct. And the thing that I talk about is how ridiculous that is for multiple reasons.

One, because we should be allowed to be the totality of ourselves and be lovable. That's ridiculous. And we're told that we're told that that's true, but also be smaller, be less, be less of you. But the other thing that's so crazy to me, when I was writing that rant with just as much justified passion, is I realized that we're showing women and people, all these TV shows and movies, where they're like swept away on this like romantic super over the top, you know, vacations and flowers and courting.

And yet we get to adulthood. And so many men are just like, what? I'm not going to do that stuff. You're going to come to my roof and you're going to eat an old burrito and you're going to love it. And if you don't, I'm going to break up with you. Like, what? No.

I'm going to call you crazy and knee. Yeah. I'm going to go you crazy and needy. Sorry, I've been raised to believe that there would be courting and love. Like, this is something I have been ranting about for so long because I was always a hopeless romantic. I think most people are. Like, even when you're cynical, I think a lot of people are cynical because they were really romantic and they got disappointed a lot.

That's fair. But who doesn't want love? Who doesn't want somebody to gush and be excited and try to make you feel really loved and special? Like, it's so disgusting how many men have tried to make you feel like you're a demon for wanting basic care. How much unrealistic expectation do you think that we absorb from media and the internet and, like, you know, all of that is out in the air? So much. So much. And that's, you know, that's so much of what that's so much of what I talk about. you know, in the first book, that's what, that's so much of what I talk about when it comes to your family members and also what it means to be alone, what it means to be a woman who is alone.

Because we say, you know, we say two things. We're like, oh, she's so independent. And we're also like, and a loser. Like, it's like, we're saying all these things. You can't pretend we're not saying them. And then in the second book, you know, talking about friendship and all this stuff, so much of what I learned from friendship was from pop culture. I was told that, you know, we were all going to, me and my friends were all going to meet up every single day at the latest hot restaurant at noon and we never needed a calendar like on sex in the city. I was told that, you know, we were all going to live together or at least really close by

like in living single or new girl. Like that doesn't happen. We live in different neighborhoods. It could take you an hour to get to your friends. Like there, and it's hard not to internalize that because you see that as a kid. or as an adult and you're like, I want that. I'm sure I'll get that soon. And then it doesn't happen like that.

And you're like, what did I do wrong? And I don't think we did anything wrong. I really, I really don't. I think, you know, there's always things you can do to improve that. But that's so much of, yeah, I've internalized a lot of shame about that stuff. And I would keep watching those shows. I still watch those shows. I love watching them because we love, I love watching friends.

I love, not the show friends, but like I love watching shows about friends where they're, they love each other and they support each other. Like, who doesn't love that? But it can get really hard when you're like, it's great to watch this, but I want to live this. I want to experience it for real, not just through it TV. Yeah, I mean, let's talk about that. So you will find your friends is about making friends as an adult and how fraught, hard it can be in some ways to sort of break out of that. Why do you think it can be so hard to make adult friends? I think it's a lot of reasons. You know, one of them is that it can't be denied. Like our current state of capitalism sucks. It really sucks. We're being asked to work like 60 hours a week, maybe more, just to get by. That's really leaving us very little time to take care of ourselves, to find community, to, I mean, that's supposed to be, that's supposed to be the point. of life. I really think the point of life is to have these communities to have to feel like we have backup on backup. How can you do that when you're trying to work just to survive? I think that

that can't be discounted. That is that is part of it. And also so many of us, you know, don't live as close to each other as maybe like previous generations did where you all lived in, you know, maybe a little bit closer. I know I don't live that close to a lot of my friends. A lot of my friends are long distance. That's harder. And then, you know, the other thing is a lot of us have been hurt a lot by past friends. And so when we get older, it's like, you know, when you scraped your knee as a kid, it hurt. But like, not necessarily as much as it hurts when you get older. Because like, I don't know, like your body's different, all these things. Like it just feels like that stuff hurts so much more and that

lasts so much longer. And I think that that's true for like relational pain. So like we've had so many cuts and scrapes, I guess, essentially in our friendships as well, where a lot of our past friendships have left us feeling really scared to try again and really hurt. And understandably, we're like, yeah, I don't want to do that again. Whereas I think when you're, you know, eight, 15, you're like, I'll try again. Sure, it'll get better. But then I don't know, after 20, 30 years of that, you're like, maybe I won't. Maybe this is, you know, and so it's, I think, A lot of it is our culture. I think a lot of it is, and also a lot of it is our own pain and our own healing that we have to kind of do around that and rewire how we choose people, what we allow.

It's so much stickier than most people talk about. They're just like, oh, the social media. And I'm like, oh, my God. It's not that easy. It's not that simple. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends.

me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-I-Hart. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. At our back. My parents were what you might call

keep-to-themselves types. We didn't have a house full of friends and it just wasn't something I saw a lot of growing up. You could have acquaintance. is sure, but we weren't really encouraged to really let people in, literally and metaphorically. It's something that still shapes the way I understand friendship today as an adult. There are so many things that we have to unlearn, interrogate, baggage we have to put down that kind of keeps us from showing up the way that we want.

I know for me, I kind of was one of the, like my parents, they were the kind of people who didn't have friends, they had family, and so we had family around a lot, but they didn't really have friends. They didn't really have people over that we were not blood relatives. And so I grew up in a household where the norm was keeping to yourself. It was unusual to have non-blood people in your life popping over. And so that is the default that I always find myself going back to. And I have to really work to catch myself to unlearn it and say, you know, well, if somebody wants to come over, why is my default being like, no, they can't? Or if somebody wants to get a drink, somebody they don't know very well. I just feel this, what feels familiar is saying no. And I have to really

step out of myself to interrogate why that is. And interrogate if that is getting me to what the life that I actually want or a life that just feels like what I deserve. So that's, you know, I'm so glad that you said that because there's two things about that that are so important. One is we're only, for the most part, we're only going to have friends. that are what were modeled for us. So, you know, for many of us, the only friendships we saw were on TV, which, or we saw our friends, our parents' friendships if they had them or if they didn't, if they were good or if they were bad. So we're modeling that same thing. If our, if our parents had weird friendships or didn't have a lot of friends, yeah, that's going to feel

harder for us to navigate that. You know, we talk about that a lot when it comes to romantic relationships where we're like, oh, you learn what you know about romantic relationships from watching your parents' relationship. It's the same thing from friendships. It's the exact same thing. And then the other thing about that is that, you know, it's, that's another part of those, like, old wounds. Like so much of the ways we interact with our friends are still reacting from that child's

place of, like, those wounds that we have around our attachment styles and the way that we were able to attach to our parents and the way that our parents interacted with us, we're still doing that. I wish it wasn't true because it feels rude, but it's true. It's true. I feel like such a, I'm really mad. You mentioned earlier that it's very easy to be like, oh, the problem is social media. And I completely agree with you that it's so much more complicated than that. We're all living in, we're all exhausted, we're all burnt out. There's just so much. going on. It's just so hard to be a fucking person these days. But do you think that the internet and social media complicates, you know, the way that people are building relationships or not building

relationships right now? I do. Absolutely. And so, you know, I only, I only referenced that, and you probably already, you know, knew this. But because so often when we talk about people struggling with things in our, in our world, the people who are weighing in just make it like the simplest thing. They're not looking any deeper. And then it's just like, oh, just go do this. This is really easy. And I just hate that advice so much. Because there's all these pieces. You have to look at all of all. I have to look at all them. So yeah, I mean, you know, social media is a double-edged sword for friendships, I think, because on one hand, you can make friendships of people who live far away who you might not have met, which is particularly vital for marginalized people

who might not meet a lot of other people who are like them. I mean, that's a huge, huge thing. So I can't discount that. I think that's also why I hate when people are like, social media is bad. I'm like, a lot of people don't know anyone like them in their area. This is a huge tool. You can't say that it's all bad. But on the other side of that, I know social media can also be this horrible source for comparison where we're constantly seeing people post their perfect, perfect, perfect friend group, having their perfect, perfect, perfect birthday parties and their perfect, perfect girls trips and all these things. And again, that shame comes back in and I'm like, they have it too. Everyone has it. Oh, like it's and they, the thing is, they might not even have it.

They might not. Their friendships might be full of resentment and gossip and backbiting and and unsaid things, it's very likely that they are, but if you're just scrolling through your phone, you're like, another reminder of what I want to have that I don't have, and they have it, it exists, you know? Yeah, I think, I hadn't really even thought about that of the way that that comparison aspect of social media really can make you feel more dug into your shame

because you feel like you're alone. You feel like everybody else is hanging out without me, having brunch, or on a girl's trip to Rome or whatever, they're all on a boat. And I'm in my apartment. And, yeah, it really keeps us dug into the experience that we are the only people experiencing these painful feelings when everybody, it doesn't matter who you are. Everybody feels alone sometimes.

Everybody feels disconnected and disengaged sometimes. It's true. It's true. And it's also like, you know, the people who don't have that aren't going to post that. like I'm not going to you know post a photo of me with you know the friends I wish I was hanging at with their just dead space I'm like me with my best friends on this boat is just like me alone like like people who struggle with that aren't going to do that because there's no way to really effectively do that and also you know some people feel their own shame from not having that

that they don't want to necessarily broadcast it but I think that's it too you know I always know that's the hardest thing right it's like the people who don't have to be have something are not going to post it they don't have it. But I think the other thing that's tough about it too is that so many people are posting it as sort of like a keeping up with the Joneses thing where they're like, I have to post that I have really great friends. I have to do this. And it's so funny because when I did a TV appearance for this book and my book publisher was like, was like, hey, like the, this like morning show wants you to give us some photos of you and your friends so that we can put them up there. And I was like, fun fact, I have no photos of me with my

friends. I don't even know where I would. Like, I maybe have some like after comedy shows or something like that. But when I'm hanging out with my friends, we don't take photos. I don't really do that. And so some people like to do it. I'm not saying that people who do that are, it's like put upon, but I don't think to do that when I'm hanging out with a group of people. I'm like, all right, photo to prove, this happened. Like, I don't, but then when you don't have those photos and you don't have those posts, you're like, and I don't know if that one is, if other people feel like that. But then you're like, oh, I don't have those photos. Are those friendships real? And it's like, of course they are. You're just not, do you know what I mean? It's a, it's a

Absolutely. Yeah. I know for, and again, I'm not knocking anybody who is someone who likes to document their social. Yeah, it's fine. It's just not what I do. And I'm like, why don't I do that? And why don't I have those? Why don't I have proof? Why can't I show this proof that I have friends? Yeah, if I'm having a truly good time with friends, I'm probably, my phone is probably deep in my bag and I'm not thinking about it. Like, to me, that is the marker of me that I'm really engaged is that I wasn't even thinking about. be at the document this. I'm just like fully present. And so if there's ever an event where there's tons of photos taken by me, that's probably a signal that I maybe wasn't as engaged to rest present as I otherwise could have been. Yeah, no, absolutely. But again, it's like, that's why I love talking about things like this, because I think there are a lot of us out there who feel like that. But if nobody talks about it, then you're just sitting there being like, everyone's having fun with their

friends. Everyone remembers take photos. Everyone's having so much fun. They can't help but take photos. Like you tell yourself these stories and you're like, well, I had a lot of fun and I was very present and I didn't take photos or I felt like it'd be awkward to take a photo or I don't know. I overthought it in some way. And then you're like, was I not having enough fun to necessitate photos? And why did that like you, again, just this like trying to be this version of normal that doesn't really exist because you feel this way. I feel this way. Other people feel this, but we're still holding ourselves up to, like, what we see. Everyone feels lonely sometimes. And according to a 2020 survey from the insurance company Cigna, Gen Z is lonelier than older generations, with 73% of Gen Z respondents reporting that they feel

alone either sometimes or always, the highest level of any generation. Now, it's easy to blame smartphones and social media, and that might be part of it. But Lane says it's more complicated than that. Your book is about making friends as an adult, but I often wonder the younger generation, like teenagers, how are they navigating this incredibly fraught dynamic that we navigate, I mean, I'll speak for myself, I navigate poorly as an adult.

I wonder how the younger generation, who has grown up seeped in this, this has been their reality for most of their lives, how are they navigating it, do you think? I think it's one of those things, like from people that I've talked to, um, even just like on this book tour like,

you know, having people's parents be like, hey, can you, uh, I bought this book for my daughter or my son who's really struggling with their friendships right now. Can you sign it to them?

And I was like, oh God, yes. Like, can I send a hug with this? Because I just, I think some things change. And something stay very much the same. You know,

where it's like they're still bullying. There's still, uh, people being too weird to have friends, too different to have friends. There's still, and then I think you have the added thing that I truly can't imagine, which is social media of that. I can't imagine being a teenager or around that age and feeling like I had to follow all the popular kids on social media.

Like when I think about it, I'm just like, I would. And then like, if one of your friends unfollowed you, like, that feels bad now as an adult. but at 15, I think I would have lost it. Like, you know, we had our own versions of this stuff, but I think it's so added it and also, you know, filters. Like, there's so many things that I just feel like can warp, you know, and there's, it's, I'm not, it's not being like, oh, you're grasping at straws to say that filters are really affecting children.

Like, you know, we know that there are like more and more like, kids like people under 18 or like getting plastic surgery and stuff there's no way that's not because they're like oh i look better with this filter like you know there's just i feel like it's got it's got to be really rough but you know i i don't i still feel like i understand it like as much as it's easy to be like oh it's probably so different from when we were kids i don't know i've i've I've talked to teenagers and kids and stuff about their friendships and things like that. And a lot of the stuff, that's not really what they necessarily bring up the most. I think a lot of the stuff just stays the same where it's like, you know, their friends were

their friends. And then they suddenly all turned on them and started bullying them. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I've been through that. Like, you know, a lot of the stuff stays the same. you wish it didn't, you wish it would get better, but I don't know. So I feel like, yeah, if that makes sense. Like I feel like a lot of ways it's the same stuff that happened. It speaks back to your point about how it's easy to cling to the simplistic answer of like, it's social media.

That's what's doing it. Right, yeah. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite, unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.

Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-I-Hart. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls,

we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Let's get right back into it. I was thinking back to a memory when I was in junior high at camp. The our version of following the popular people on social media was after somebody had a wild weekend out, they would bring like a stack of physical photos of like all the memories. And I remember being at a lunch table and there was a girl doing that and she had like a stack of photos.

And all of her friends were sitting around her looking through these photos laughing thinking, aha, so great. And I was like, oh, can I see? And she said to me, if I wanted everybody to see, I would be passing them around. And so like, it, like that, I think kids are probably having that same vibe on social media. And it probably feels inflamed or heightened. But it's not new. You know, everybody's experienced that. It's just like social media makes you so much more hyper aware of it.

Yes. That's really all it is. You can see more tangible stuff because, you know, when I was a kid and someone was like not talking to me or giving me the cold shoulder or whatever, like, I didn't need to see that they'd like unfollowed me or whatever. it was like, oh, you could feel that they'd unfollow you in real life. Yeah. You're like, oh, you've, this is wild. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. The IRL unfollow. Yeah, like, you knew. You knew when you'd been unfollowed. And you're like, what did I? And you really can't, you want to ask what you did, but you can't. And it's like, you know, when you look at it that way, you're like, you know, stuff at a basic human level stuff hasn't changed that much. And, you know, it's all the same,

it's all the same stuff that it was where it's like, those are people who have their own pain and they're trying to have power over somebody else and, you know, whatever it is. And it's boringly human. Yeah. You know, you touch on this in the book, but one of the things that I find so interesting is the ways that the way that we build friendships is really gendered. And so I think, you know, women are sort of told you can make friends, but this is just like a placeholder. You'll meet, then you'll meet your romantic partner. Y'all will get married. And that's a real prize. You know, in what ways do you think that the way that, the way that, like,

we, that different genders are told to think about friendships in their life? How do you see this as all a gendered thing that's playing out? Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's just the way that we're, we're socialized, you know? I know there are so many men out there who, men, men, when it comes to their friendships, like, they're told that, like, you know, it can't be that emotional. It has to just be like watching the game together and all of that stuff and this like, you know, you don't hug and you don't cry and you don't, we don't talk about our feelings. Oh, like we don't do any of that stuff. And so where, what are men doing with those feelings? Because men have feelings. All genders experience emotion. Like it's just so, so harmful, so unnecessary,

you know and so then a lot of those men are going and they're they're trying to do that with their female partners because that's the only they know women understand that but that's a lot of pressure to put on the women in your life and then they don't really know how to be friends with a woman because they're told that women are not your friends they are supposed to be sex objects in this way or romantic objects all these things you can't women can't be people people. So, you know, there's all these conflicting messages that they're given. And I really, I really empathize with that because I empathize with the, with the men who are doing their best to unlearn that shit. Because it's not, it's not anyone's fault that these ideas have been placed in the

world, but it is our responsibility to unlearn them. That's just the way it is. So, you know, I have, I have a lot of empathy for men who are like, this is a really lonely, existence. I want to have close friendships. I want to have friendships like women are allowed to have friendships. And it's like, yeah, this kind of thinking limits everybody. And then, you know, women again, yeah, exactly, are told the same thing in a different way where it's like, oh yeah, you can be like close and intimate, but like really your partner should be your whole world. And like he should get, which if you think about what those two genders are being told, So like, we're supposed to save all our energy for our male partner who doesn't know how to talk about his feelings.

So, like, what is this? Who doesn't know how to have a friendship outside of chest bumps? Like, and, you know, like, what? It's just all, it's not working for us. And, you know, that's why it was important for me to talk about things like this in the book, because to take it from this personal, you know, this personal thing that we're making that. choices, this personal shame. And it's like, no, no, we have a bunch of things constructed here that are really flawed and difficult to navigate. It makes sense that people are struggling. In my other life, I do a lot of work around combating extremism and how people kind of like fall down dangerous rabbit holes online. And like that is definitely, if you're an adult, like, it is your responsibility to not to like not do that. But time and time again, the research indicates that loneliness, when you combine men who are, or even anybody, really, but people who are lonely with the internet, people who don't have strong connections in their lives, that is like a recipe for people falling down dangerous ideologies online. And so all of this is important, not just for the people that you, you know, want to have fulfilling, meaningful relationships and full lives, but it's important to all of us. Like it makes us less safe as a culture when,

people are social, when men especially are socialized to not have those connections because the research is just very clear that it opens up a pathway to much more dangerous and potentially harmful, violent ways of thinking and being in the world. Yes. No, absolutely. I mean, I think that's why, like, we have to stop looking at it like, you know, it's everyone for themselves. I mean, and I, that was something that had frustrated me my whole life, because, I think I just I as this like very soft-hearted little kid I was like but aren't we like all supposed to like help each other and like I look back at that I'm like oh you're in for a rough row and then you're thinking like that at like seven that's not how people are thinking but there is

this idea of like that's your business and this is my business and well I don't know if he doesn't you know have any help that's not my problem and it's like if we had a sense of community no one would be left behind. No one would be ostracized. No one would be like, you're different from me. You're bad. We wouldn't see each other as a competition. We would see each other as, you know, it, it sounds kind of hippie, but does it sound kind of, you know, hippies had a lot of good points. I mean, it's like, it's, I'm not trying to sound too like woo, but I think it's, it's really true. I think if we had more compassion and less limits and we know why those limits were put there, they were put there.

I think that's something I have to remind myself of. I'm like, we know that, you know, all of these like, well, I'm different from this person and this person's different and they're bad and both. Like all this stuff was not created by us and was created, you know, to sell us stuff, to make people mad, to distract people from other issues. It's like, you know, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole either, but it's it's something that helps me when I think about it. Because I'm just like, how did we get these ideas that like each other are the problem? You know what I mean? And it's like the men you're talking about who go down this extremist place.

I'm like, ugh, what if you could be angry at the systems that created this? How much more productive would that be? And how much more community, positive community, would you have? like the men who are like women are the problem. I hate this. Blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, oh my God, if you could see that like the ways that you have been socialized that think that men have to be this way, women have to be like, that, that's the problem. You're putting it on the wrong person, man, you know? It's, it's, it's tough because we can't, you know, we can only do so much work on that. And again, that really is when it's like, hopefully everybody's doing that own work

and gets to that realization as soon as they can because, like, more divisiveness, more hatred, more rage, more violence. It's never going to bring you more joy. It's never going to bring you more community. Not in a good way. So what tips do you have for folks listening on how to make friends as an adult? Yeah. So one of the things that I talk a lot about, in the book is things like attachment styles and love languages, which we talk so much about in romantic relationships, but we don't talk about it when it comes to our friendships. Because again, we have this idea that your romantic relationships should take work and your friendship should

just be easy and have no communication. And that is garbage. So really looking at the ways that you give and receive love and the ways that your friends give and receive love, really just trying to understand people a little bit more because your friendships are relationships. I know it's really easy to want that friend who just gets you and you never have to explain it. I've wanted that my whole life where I'm like, I want everyone to know what I need and I never want to talk about it ever. But, you know, part of growth is realizing like I could keep doing that and expecting that or like what are the ways I need to communicate a little bit more? What are the ways I need to say even if it sucks, even if I've done it before and it didn't go

well? I think a lot of it is trying things in new ways, trying to relate to people in new ways, trying to relate to the current people in your life in new ways, trying to, you know, maybe meet different kinds of people than the ones that going back to what we were talking about earlier, so many of us have this set pattern where we're like, oh, I'm always this friend and like, you know, I'm always the one who gives more. I'm always the one who like takes care of them and they don't take care of me. And then we repeat these patterns to like prove it's true. It's not conscious. I've done it. It's it's not coming from a place of like, oh, you stupid unhealed people do this. No, no, no. It's like it's extremely because that's how people talk about it. You know,

like a lot of experts are like, well, if you're an idiot, then you're doing this. And I'm like, like, be quiet, Beth. I don't want to hear it. But like, it's just so it lacks any empathy. Like, you know, everything I'm talking about is something I've like lived and struggled with and had to learn because I've done it. So it's, you know, but we have to take a look at that and say, oh, okay, maybe there's more work that I have to do on myself. Maybe there's more boundaries that I have to set up. So I think that, you know, obviously I could give the advice, like people love to give the throwaway advice of like, go to a bar, talk to somebody. I don't think the, the reason I don't give that advice other than I just think it's oversimplified and kind of worthless is that is that I don't

think people's problem is meeting people. I don't think that's it. I don't think the hard thing about making friends is that you're not meeting someone. I think that. I think that. I think that. The hard thing often comes with finding people who are compatible. You want to be their friend. Maybe they don't want to be yours, whatever. Having better dynamics in that friendship, having like communicating better, having somebody who can meet your needs. I think it's all these things.

And then growing and changing with that friend, knowing how to let it go when it happens. So I think it really is just a lot of work that you're doing on yourself. and then a lot of work you're doing with that other person, not necessarily bad work, but I just, again, I don't think it stops as like, oh, you need to meet people. It's like, well, yes, but what do you do when you meet people? How do you change what you do when you meet people? Because we all have our own little patterns that, like, we can meet someone and then we still do the little thing that we do with them that might not be good for us, you know? Yeah. It really comes back to like being curious and introspective about your patterns, how you show up,

if that's working for you, I think. Yes, I think that's so much of it. And it's like, it sounds like we want the easy answer. I think that that is why so many of those experts who are like, oh, I'll tell you right now, go to a bar, go to this specific bar. That's why people love stuff like that because people, so many people have been conditioned, because I don't blame them, have been conditioned to want the like cheapest, simplest answer because we want something that's like, you know, we want to be able to say, I'm lonely.

I want to be able to take something right now that'll make me stop being lonely. We want something that's easy. And, you know, that's it. And so, but that's not true. That's not real. And the real truth of it is that it's messier than that. It's more personal than that. And it's harder than that.

But I'd rather do the real true. healing around that, to have better friendships, than to do kind of like a band-aid that covers up the wound and you just have to keep getting more band-aids. Speaking of wounds, I have to ask you about Tinder Live. Yes. That was my first foray into your work. Nice. I am obsessed with it. Yeah, thanks.

So here's my question. For people who are on the apps, like Tinder Live, it really shows you how. horrible online dating can be. I mentioned a piece about going on Tinder in San Francisco, especially. I was like, ooh, I lived there for a while. I know exactly that. You know, like, I own a tech company, but I also go hiking. Yes. I'm unique.

Yes. I'm not like the other men. Yeah. I'm out in nature, honey. Yeah. Yeah. What advice do you have for someone who just like cannot swipe past another bad Tinder or Hinge profile.

They're just fucking done. I know somebody out there is like, that is me. What should that person do? You don't have to. You don't have to. I mean, I think that's really so much of it. Like, you know, I love doing Tinder Live because it makes people feel less alone in that. It makes people realize they're not the only one getting the bad messages.

They're not the only one doing these things. but if someone's not getting something out of that, they're allowed to stop. Like there's this idea that we have. And this is put on everybody, but it's put on women especially. We're like, you have to keep trying. If you stop, if you stop trying,

you're never going to find, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? And it's like there's so many of us out there. I've been there many times myself where, you know, I mean, it's funny. it's funny to say, but like, I'm only on those apps for work. I'm only on those apps for Tinder Live.

I don't, you know. I'm like, I do my comedy show. That's it. But it is funny because, like, when I go on tour with Tinder Live, I'll be in, like, a coffee shop in, like, Chicago, and I'm, like, swiping ferociously. And I feel like there's probably someone behind me being like, wow, she's just, like, really horny this morning.

And I'm like, no, I'm here. This is for work. I'm in, like, how would I even explain what that work is with that, like, I don't even know. but, you know, it's okay to be like, maybe this isn't for me. This doesn't feel good. I'm going to stop doing it. I can, it's, it sounds simple.

And it doesn't mean it is simple to do. But yeah, I don't, I don't agree with that like hustle harder mindset of like, I don't know, just do it twice as much. It's like, what? No, it's someone doesn't feel good. So you should stop. You're allowed. I think.

knowing you're allowed to stop. And it doesn't mean you're going to definitely die alone now because you stop doing something that didn't feel good for you. I think that's such a toxic notion. And also, you know, if you're romantic at all or you believe in fate at all, which, you know, I do to some extent, like, I don't know. My stomach can find me some other way then. Like, figure something out, babe, I've taken a break. Maybe at a coffee shop. I don't know. We are in what feels like a very weird time when it comes to the internet, technology, social media, apps, dating. What do you see as the future of connection as it pertains online, especially? Like, we're in this weird moment.

How do you think that's going to affect the way that people connect or don't connect? I really don't know. I really don't know because, you know, I talk to a lot of GenX people, especially who have. haven't like been on dating apps and stuff. A lot, you know, a lot of them have, but people who've like never been on dating apps and only knew what it was like. Because like, you know, I've, I've been on like, I've had the internet my whole life. So it's like to me, like that's not that strange. But if you didn't have the internet your whole life and you only met people in person ever, like I've had long distance friends as a child. So to me it's not that weird. But when I talk to

them, they're like, I don't understand. Why can't you just go talk someone at a bar? If you see someone hot, just go up to them. And as someone who's grown up so much on the internet, I'm like, ugh. And I'm sure that's going to be the future generation as well. It's just like, are you kidding me? No. You know, when you've grown up with that. So I don't know where it's going because do I think that they're right in that it is better to meet people in person? Of course. But like, I don't know, social anxiety, being tired. Again, the same kinds of problems. So I don't know. I really don't know where it's going to go. I hope it goes somewhere good. It probably will be some kind of return to something in person because I don't know. Technology has made our lives

better in a lot of ways. But it's also just like I think it makes it worse in others. It just does. It's like you can't, I don't know that you can. Yeah, I don't know that you can make it easier necessarily. And I think even the ones that, like, promise to do that, it still just feels exhausting to so many of us. So it's like, oh, no, this makes it better. And I'm like, not if me and everyone I know feels really tired when they use it. Yeah. Everyone is so exhausted. Yeah.

I don't think another app is it. I don't think that's like it. I don't know. And also, you know, if it was, it wouldn't make any money because people would be like, I found a friend. I'm good. I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. So it would have to be like some billionaire philanthropist who like made a really good app he didn't need to make money on. And I don't know that we're going to get that anytime soon. But yeah. The book is you will find your people. Where can folks pick it up and learn more? Yeah. So you can get it at any local bookstore. I have links on my website lane more.org and in all my social media links to at hello lane more. And then it's available on.

hardcover and also there's an audio book that I read as well. So you can with great like impressions and stuff like a lot of good vocal flourishes in the audio. Thank you. Yes. I love I love doing those little impressions of like being able to you know if I had someone my past it was like kind of a dick be like oh and then this is how his voice sounded. Feels like a little win. You're like that is how you sounded to me. I love it. Lane, is there anything that I did not. ask that you want to make sure it gets included? I'll tell people because I always, I was always forgetting to say this. And I'm like, no, remember to say this.

I have a podcast I do on Patreon called I Thought It Was Just Me, where people can call in and ask questions and we answer them on the show. I do bits of Tinder Live where I review chaotic profiles. And we do a really cool segment called What Are We, where people can call in and tell me about all their weird situationships, and I give you a very legally binding judge's ruling about what you are. Just so fun. And I started it recently, and I was like, you need to be telling people about this more

because it's so great. And there's a really great community of people on there. And we just like, yeah, it's really wonderful. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative.

Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy. Not quite.

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