There Are No Girls on the Internet - Kanye West's new song; Elizabeth Holmes’ husband wants your blood; Elon's AI is undressing women; Alondra Nelson will not be complicit — NEWS ROUNDUP w Cristen Conger

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

First news roundup of the new season! This week, guest co-host Cristen Conger joins us for a wild ride through this week's headlines in tech, media, and pop culture.  Distinguished Professor and Black woman Alondra Nelson resigns from the National Science Board and the Library of Congress Scholars Council. Read her inspiring resignation statement: https://time.com/7285045/resigning-national-science-foundation-library-congress/  Kanye West drops a pro-nazi song that's all over Instagram, and Meta thinks that's ok: https://www.404media.co/kanyes-nazi-song-is-all-over-instagram/ Elon Musk's X (twitter) AI is being used to create non-consensual, undressed images of women who post on the platform: https://www.pcmag.com/news/gross-elon-musks-grok-ai-will-undress-photos-of-women-on-x-if-you-ask Meanwhile, Elizabeth Holmes is back! Her husband founded a new startup that sounds an awful lot like Theranos 2.0 (now with 200% more body fluids!):  https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/10/business/elizabeth-holmes-partner-blood-testing-startup.html Senator Mike Lee (R-UT) wants to ban all porn: https://gizmodo.com/gop-senator-introduces-bill-to-make-all-porn-a-federal-crime-following-project-2025-playbook-2000600994 What’s your song of the summer? Let us know! Email us at [e-mail] https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/music/g64759704/song-of-summer-2025   Follow Cristen Conger: Instagram @cristenconger Unladylike Podcast: https://www.unladylike.co/   Follow TANGOTI:  IG @BridgetMarieInDC   TikTok @BridgetMarieInDC   YouTube: ThereAreNoGirlsOnTheInternetSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hey, it's a Shanti Plummer from Fudderound and Find out. This week, Azee Fud and I sat down with Step and Curry. Step talks pressure, confidence, and what it really? takes to stay great. There's different categories, I guess, so on like conditioning, shooting drills where you try to simulate kind of games. Look at her face. We have a love-hate relationship with those,

because you know you're getting something out of it. You don't look forward to those days. Listen to Futter Around and find out on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

Welcome to the brand new season of There Are No Girls on the Internet, where we explore the intersection of technology, social media, and identity. And this is our first iteration of our weekly news roundup of our new season. We're bringing you stories you might have missed this week. And another big first. We have our first ever guest co-host for our Roundup, the amazing, the wonderful, the like media maven. Kristen Conger of unladylike media.

Kristen, thank you so much for being here. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be the first. I think if you was kind of like a virtuoso, you are the co-author of the book Unladylike, a field guide to smashing the patriarchy and claiming your space, awesome title, the hosts of two great podcasts, conspiracy she wrote, and Unladylike. We're in the middle of a series called Gender War Games. What is that for folks who don't know? Yes. So for anyone who has missed it, we right now are kind of living. in this uncanny valley of various forms of gender panic.

And honestly, gender war games is partly like my own excuse to talk to like smart feminists about all of these, this wild gender and anti-gender discourse happening right now. So if you're feeling kind of spun out, come get some context. War Games. Come find out why. Well, speaking of finding out why, are you ready to dive into some news that folks might have missed this week? I'm so ready. Okay, so we got to start with an update on my girl. I have talked about her on the podcast a few times because I'm fascinated, but we have an Elizabeth Holmes update. Are you familiar with Elizabeth Holmes? I mean, how could I not be? I should have worn a black turtleneck in honor. And like spoken in a weird, fake, deep voice to signal that you're

like a serious tech person. That's my Elizabeth Holmes voice. It's good. It's good. Elizabeth Holmes, the disgraced CEO of the scam blood testing company Theranos, who is now in prison for defrauding investors because her blood testing was all a scam. Anyway, so we just recently found out what her husband is up to these days. And that is, you know, securing the family business.

You know, the scam family, he is securing funding for a brand new blood testing startup company that he is launching. My mouth fell on the floor when I read that. Yes, I mean, if there's one thing these people have is the audacity, you know, really it knows no bounds. So according to the New York Times, her husband, Paul Evans, is raising money for a company called Hamanthus, which means bloodflower in Greek. And apparently it's already accumulated millions of dollars in funding.

Who would give these? Like, at this point, like, if you're giving this person your money, you get what you get. Like, come on. Yeah, I think that you should be. There should be an extra tax. Like, you should have to give that money away. Totally agreed. So this company says it is the future of diagnostics and a radically new approach to health

testing. And we'll use AI to test blood and other bodily fluids like saliva and urine for diseases. So it sounds like just like Theranos, but instead of just blood, it's also other bodily fluids. Is this couple just, you know, or the body fluid? You know, are they just really into fluids? You know what? And I don't want to follow up answer. I'm so sorry I asked.

So the cut really called this out saying that it's basically the same company. They even had a photo of the new company's prototype, which looks suspiciously like Theronos's now defunth testing machine. They write, anyone else experiencing deja vu? So the company, here's what they had to say. They were like, we know this looks. bad, but trust us. On X, they wrote, quote, we're Hamanthus. Yes, our CEO, Billy Evans is Elizabeth Holmes partner. Skepticism is rational. We must clear a higher bar. So we will communicate

directly, the unfiltered truth, no intermediaries. We prefer to build first, talk later. The science, when ready, will stand on its own merits. But we feel compelled to introduce ourselves because of the recent media coverage. And yeah, I just really, I almost kind of have to respect it. Like I wish I had this confidence to go not just into a health testing company, but specifically going into a company that tests blood just like Theranos did. Like you almost have to respect it. So I do have a question, which is that if they are a married couple,

is it possible that Holmes could one day be profiting from this new blood testing company because, you know, it could be marital property since he started, this company after they were already married. I don't know the answer to this, but I am very curious. Like, I don't necessarily like a dynamic where she is revealed to be defrauding investors with a blood scam and then gets to make money from blood testing later on. Well, and also with the added bonus of not having to wait until she's home from prison because her husband is just at home cooking up, what's it called? Hemanthias. Hemantheus. Also, terrible name. So maybe we shouldn't be worried.

Yeah. And I mean, whenever we talk about Holmes, I do like to just remind folks that she is responsible for like actual harm. Her blood scam told a woman who was prone to miscarriage that she would never be able to have children. It told somebody that they were HIV positive. And this person could not afford to get like an actual blood test for some time.

And so like had to just wait while they accumulated enough money to like get another blood test that told them like, no, no, you actually don't have HIV. And also misdiagnosed somebody is having cancer. And so Holmes basically says that none of this should disqualify her from running similar kinds of health test in companies. In fact, to this day, she maintains her innocence and says that failure isn't fraud, even though like, yeah, she might have defrauded some people, but like, come on, it's just business. Wow.

And while Holmes might not be directly involved in her partner startup, she does say that her days working in health tech are far from over. and in fact she's already working on patents from prison. She says, There is not a day that I have not continued to work on my research and inventions. I remain completely committed to my dream of making affordable healthcare solutions available to everybody. Which is like, girl, keep them at this point. I don't think we need them.

I just have to say, bravo. That was, I mean, that was a beautiful. You put me, I felt like I was in the boardroom with Elizabeth. Oh, my gosh. I've been doing that voice for the long. longest time. When the dropout was being released on Hulu, I was like watching it, like, I was like very into it. I have been mimicking her voice for a long time. I feel like, I feel like it's like in my, in my repertoire. You drop into it seamlessly. Thank you. Thank

you. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk, to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst in the group?

The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name.

The Harvard yard, but they're open to change. Do you have a name? suggestion. We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again.

More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting.

Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-Ehart. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs. without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis. offense. And when IT's friends stopped by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. Hi, hi, everyone. I'm Cheryl Stray, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We're coming into this world fighting for our lives. All I'm going to do is pull out what you already got inside.

We're there to support and celebrate each other. And that's not like your story versus my story. You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it. Yep, yep, exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, so we have to talk about this recent news with the federal porn band. Are we at the making all pornography a federal crime stage of Project 2025? Potentially. One of the project stated goals was to permanently criminalize all pornography. And now, Mike Lee, a Republican senator from Utah, has introduced a bill that would do exactly that. Lee recently introduced the Interstate Obscenity Definition Act, or IOD, which would effectively criminalize all pornography nationwide by legally redefining what it means to be obscene in a way that virtually includes all visual representations of sex.

According to the bill, quote, a picture, image, graphic image file, film, videotape, or other visual depiction of any media that, quote, appeals to the prurient interest of in nudity, sex, or excretion would be considered criminal. So, like, people are pointing out that, like, that could mean Game of Thrones episodes, right? Yeah, I mean, also, it's been a long time since I took my mass comm law class,

but I feel like we've kind of like constitutionally, Supreme Court-wise, we've been around the block. Yeah. So Lee addresses that. He says, obscenity is not protected by the First Amendment, but hazy and unenforceable legal definitions have allowed extreme pornography to saturate American society and reach countless children. Our bill updates the legal definition of obscenity for the internet age so this content can be taken down and it's peddlers prosecuted. So one of the things that we talk about on the show a lot is like if when you hear someone using language that is like, we need to do XYZ to the internet to protect children, your spidey senses should sort of tingle because that is exactly the language that people who want to restrict the internet use before taking some like draconian action. Because what happens when the powers that be decide that content related to the existence of trans folks or queer folks or any other kind of LGBTQ person is pornographic and thus needs to be like, legend. just laid it off the internet and it's peddlers put behind bars. You know, like most rational people, I also want to keep explicit content away from kids.

But research is super clear that when you restrict the internet through things like verification laws that verify your age or like laws where you have to show your government ID to access certain content, that is not effective. That does not effectively keep kids away from explicit content. So all you are really doing then is like setting the stage for extremity. to have the power to legislate anything they don't like off of the internet. Exactly. And it's fascinating that it's the same group of people who are now pushing for an extreme kind

of anti-porn ban while also celebrating social platforms removing censorship. Exactly. It doesn't make sense. It makes no sense. And it's one of those things that like, if you follow the thread, their argument completely falls apart. Mm-hmm. So speaking of platform moderation and moderation.

what is and is not allowed on platforms. I am so sorry, everybody. We have to talk about Kanye West. Folks who have been listening to the show for a while know that I had kind of a like Kanye West, like me paying attention to him funeral where I was like, I'm just, I'm leaving him in the past. I'm moving forward. But so I am like loaves to talk about this man. But what's happening with his new song really says more about the state of Facebook's moderation

than it says about Kanye himself. So if you've not checked in with Kanye in a while, he's making new music. he is hanging out with like the worst of the worst z-list extremist internet personalities they will do these like live streams from their hangout sessions and it just looks grim like it looks like something out of a David Lynch film where there'll be like in a beautiful waterfront mansion and then it's just like all these goons wearing all black like it's just as like a very weird vibe and the vibes look terrible in there I guess let's put it that way so kind of I really least a new song. The song is called, I'm going to call it Schmielschmidt. That is not what the

song is called, but what you're thinking, that is the name of the song, right? You feel me? Gotcha, gotcha. Gotcha. Taking up. So yeah, I just did, I, we, I, our producer, Mike and I had a whole conversation that was like, I don't even really feel comfortable, like, saying the name of the song on Mike. I don't want there to be, like, audio of me saying this. So, yeah, we'll call it Smell Schmittler, but you know, you know what it is. And yeah, the song, it sounds exactly like what you're thinking it is. It's all about how the trials and tribulations of Kanye West's life

have turned him into a Nazi. Now, most streaming platforms and social media platforms will not allow a song called Schmiel Schmittler, where the chorus is Schmiel Schmielmeter over and over again on their platforms, right? Except Instagram, as it turns out, because according to

reporting from 404 media, major shout out to them, they've been like really on this story. The song is all over Instagram. They write, While other social media sites and streaming services rush to scrub Kanye West's pro-Nazi song from their platforms, the curious or enthused can find memes, remixes, and unedited audio of West's new song all over Instagram. And, I mean, it's, is if that's not bad enough, this is like explicitly against Instagram's platform policies. In fact, Nazism is one of the only specific groups that Meta calls out by name in its own rules.

And the current version of its community standards policy regarding dangerous organizations and individuals, the company says it will remove any content that promotes Nazis, saying, quote, we remove content that glorify, supports, or represents ideologies that promote hate, such as Nazism and white supremacy. But 404 found that there are reels that use this song that have over one million views. There's one reel that calls it, quote, the song of the summer, which, FYI, I'm pretty sure it's not, right? Wait, well, side question, do you have any like potential candidates for the actual song in the summer? Oh my gosh. No, not off the top of my head. What about you? I had to look it up and I will admit that like in the list, I felt very old because I was like, oh, half of these songs, I don't know. I know. I was like, I need to go do my millennial homework on. I know. Trust me. If you're like me, there's no shame admit it. I can go, we'll put some lists in the show notes.

Bless me, I will be honest to say like, I was like, I don't know half of these songs. I'm going to say it's Luther by Kendrick Lamar and Siza or like Charlie XX or something like that. But like, I know one thing is for sure. It is not Schmiel Schmittler. That is not the song of the summer. Absolutely not. Well, and so you mentioned that this was getting traction on Instagram. What about Facebook or is it just limited to Instagram at this point?

That is a great question. My sense is because Instagram and this is my sense. My sense is because Instagram is much more like short form video heavy. I would imagine, I would bet it's showing up there more than Facebook. But I need to look into that. That's actually a very good question. I just assume if it's, if it's something bad, it's got to be on Facebook, do you? Oh, don't even get me started.

Like, if Facebook has zero haters, I am dead. I'll just put it that way. There are like number one worst platform around here. And so like, if folks are wondering, like, how is this song showing up on Reels? is showing up in like the grossest ways that you can imagine. One reel depicts a white dude in khaki pants dancing to the song in front of a glowing, spitting swastika. And the caption reads, White Dad's getting turned to Kanye's new song at the summer barbecue flame emoji, which I read is like a pretty clear reference to the Holocaust. And that one reel has been viewed almost a

million times. The account that shared it describes itself as a quote, race realist and meme guy in the bio. Much of the content is memed up clips of avowed white supremacist Nick Twentez. So like, it's very explicitly and overtly dealing with like Nazism, white supremacy. Like they're not taking, they're not like, they're not being like obscure about that. Like that's like very clear. And if that's not bad enough, I think to add insult to injury, Facebook when asked about this, they honestly like speak to us like we're stupid because 404 actually. reached out to Facebook and asked, like, ask, like, why is this kind of content allowed on your platform, even when it's explicitly disallowed by your policy, like called out by name?

And their response is very frustrating. They said, we recognize that users may share content that includes references to designated dangerous organizations and individuals in the context of social or political discourse. This includes contact reporting on, neutrally discussing or condemning dangerous organizations and individuals or their activities. So the kind of reels that 404 Media found, those are not neutral. They are not neutrally discussing. They certainly are not condemning the ideology being talked about in this song. If anything, like some of them are maybe making fun of that you can maybe argue that. But most of them are pretty weirdly and explicitly celebrating it. And so like, why even make a rule that explicitly names and bans the glorification

of Nazism if we're not going to actually abide by it? Right. And then come around and call it like try to twist what is obviously like a song intended to troll and like terrorize and call it like, oh, so it's reporting and discourse. Like what? Exactly. And in case anybody's wondering, um,

on Joe Rogan's podcast, he talked about the song and he said, it's kind of catchy. Stop it. I, I, yeah, so like,

yeah, that's, there's that. Of course. Okay. So. So speaking of things that are gross and horrifying, let's check in with what's going on on X slash Twitter. If you're anything like me, you're probably like not spending a lot of time there.

I do not blame you, but a little update as to what's going on on that platform. According to Kalina Kulthai, a researcher at Bellingat, users have been using GROC, which is X's like AI chatbot to undress women in the comments of their posts. And Grock is sort of doing it. according to PCMag, while the chatbot rejects prompts for completely nude images, it does fulfill remove her clothes requests with AI generated images of women in bikinis or lingerie. Grock's responses are public and appear as replies to the original prompts. Pretty gross. So like if I were to post something on X or Twitter, somebody could say, remove her clothes and Grock would serve up an image,

an AI generated image of whoever in a bikini or lingerie. It's just like, it's just really fucked. Like, there's no other way to put it. And it's like other AI chatbots don't do this, right? Like, other AI chatbots have guardrails against this that Grock does not. Yeah, it seems like Grock is, uh, is he like he, why am I gendering Grock? Oh, God. But you know Grog's a guy. He's a nasty little boy. But it's especially unhinged though, right? Because I was also seeing, I've seen headlines as well about like just wild kind of like South African, like wild racist kind of stuff being baked into GROC. Yeah. So we were talking about this. Producer Mike and I were talking about this before we got online.

I was like, oh, I was just reading about GROC. And he was like, oh, the South Africa thing. So basically, Elon Musk, who is South African, was annoyed that GROC was not. serving up like enough racially inflammatory content about how they're bringing South African, like white South Africans to the United States. So I guess they overcorrected

because now when you ask Grock anything, it's like, oh, it's just like the oppression of the white South Africans that you could be asking for a recipe and it's like, oh, are you also interested in the plight of white South Africans? They really, the pendulum has swung in the other direction.

Mike, do I, have I summarized that correctly? Yeah, I think that's right. I think they just like turned up the white Afrikaners dial, and it's like any question. I saw somebody submit a haiku that was like had nothing to do with anything. And it was like, oh, yes, this is like the blood of the white Afrikaners. Like, my God, Grock, like, settle down. Settle down, Brock. Oh, so yeah, honestly, like, I have never heard anybody.

a positive thing about Grock. Yeah, I don't think it's going well over there. So about the non-consensual like undressing of women, you know, when pointed to a post about this and asked about the guardrails that GROC has against non-censual AI generated explicit content, Grock responded with an apology and said, this incident highlights a gap in our safeguards, which failed to block a harmful prompt violating our ethical standards on consent and privacy. We recognize the need for stronger protections and are actively working to enhance our safety mechanisms, including better prompt filtering and reinforcement learning. We are also reviewing our policies to ensure clear consent protocol. So like at least Grock knows what he's doing is wrong.

At least I really, I should not be anthropomorphizing AI, but I do it constantly in my head, even though I shouldn't. Well, in 2025, we are all at this point programmed to make a public apology, make a, make a formal apology, a note that. Yeah, Grock knows when called out, like, what the proper thing to do was just apologize very quickly via, you know, apology that sounds like very wordsmith. So, like, I, something about this story gets me because I feel like it is exactly the kind of climate that makes social media and technology more generally, like a hostile space for women. And I think, you know, in 2025, most of us are using social media. Like, it is just part of showing up in civic and public life is being online. And if anybody can use AI to undress you to sexualize you when you do show up online, we simply do not have an online landscape that allows for women to like fully and safely

participate in civic life. And so I mean, I am not showing up on X or Twitter as a platform anymore. But if I were and if other women are, I think that like I can see why that would drive women off of these platforms. And so these people who say so much they care about free speech, they care about like, you know, having a marketplace of ideas. this is anti-free speech. Women are going to not show up to these platforms and not, you know, make their, make their voices heard on them if the threat is them being like sexualized and

undressed and violated in this way. So it's not only like a gross violation. It's also in my book, like very anti-democratic. Absolutely. Well, and the, the unsettling layer of it as well that, yes, GROC is a problem, but it is also such a problem that there are, enough people wanting to train grok to essentially like assault people. Yeah. And I guess like that's my point. That's like why I don't like to anthropomorphize technology like this is because like it's learning from us. So like it's built by people. It's trained by people that learns from people. All of the biases and gross things that that we know that people have like it is it is just reflecting that back and like turbocharging it.

And so, yeah, it really does reflect the fact that, like, this technology is being trained on the worst human impulses. And that is a problem. And not only is that like a tech problem, it's like an us problem, like a people problem. If we can't figure out how to, you know, how to have a more equitable landscape, how to not use technology to just reinforce and reinforce these like patriarchal attitudes about women and violate women, we're never going to. it's like it's like both a tech problem and a like human problem i guess we got to buy grok a copy of your book come on grok get on lady like grok it's a it's a gender neutral term yeah more after a quick break another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide not quite unhumor me with robert smigle and friends me and hilarious guests from jim gaffigan to bob odenkirk to david letterman help make you funnier this week

my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group. The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard you only got in because

your parents made a huge donation to the group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard. They're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle age, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me, I need some jokes to make me seem funny.

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. bind. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-4-4-i-heart to get started. That's 844-8-4-4-I-Hart. What's up, Sam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast's Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series

because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone. I'm Cheryl Stray, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast. called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats.

I also bring a bit of advice into the mix so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We're coming into this world fighting for our lives. All I'm going to do is pull out what you already got inside. we're there to support and celebrate each other. And that's not like your story versus my story.

You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it. Yep, yep, exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. All right, so speaking of things that are infuriating me,

I also sort of inspiring me, I guess. I need to talk about Alondra Nelson. Alonelson, for folks who don't know, she is incredible. I have been lucky enough to, like, hear her speak, and she is really phenomenal. She has a very long and storied career in public service. She was the first black person and the first ever woman of color to lead the White House office on science and technology policy. She's a very accomplished scientist and professor. In 2023, she was nominated by the Biden administration to the UN high-level advisory body on AI. Her list of contributions to public interest and science, and it could go on and on and on.

I could talk about her all day. She's phenomenal. Shout out to her. Well, this week, she resigned from the National Science Board and the Library of Congress Scholars Council, citing creeping authoritarianism. And I want to talk a bit about what she said drove her to these resignations. One, because I think coming out publicly the way that she has is really brave and it comes with tons of risk, especially right now.

I haven't really seen this story talked about and the way that I wish it was being talked about because I think absolutely everybody should read what she has to say. I'll put the link to the full piece in the show notes. But I also think it highlights what we all lose when voices like Nelson's are pushed out of public service. Like we all benefit from having voices who are critical, who ask tough questions. When those voices are included in the conversation, all of our lives can improve. And when those voices are pushed out and silenced, we all lose out. And so, yeah, it's, I think that her coming out publicly with what she saw and why she's leaving is really important. So did you, do you know anything about her work or had you heard this story?

I was not familiar with her, but it's, it's tragic to lose someone like that who also, I mean, just the amount of knowledge, like institutional knowledge that she possesses, like when that one person just walks out the door. like that. It's, I mean, yeah, it's gross. How many people are being forced to, yeah, just walk away. Yeah. And I mean, I live in Washington, D.C., where a lot of federal workers live, not all, but a lot of federal workers live in this area. And I have been covering it for another podcast I work on called CityCast, D.C. It's just, we all lose out. Like, it really is, we all lose out for no, reason. It's not saving any money. We could do a whole episode on this, but like for all of the like puffery that Elon Musk talked about, like fraud and waste, it we have, we, the deficit is up. And when you fire somebody illegally and you have to pay them severance that you didn't think you were

going to have to pay or you have to like fund a lawsuit or something, we have not saved any money. Right. So like, it's like we're shooting ourselves in the foot for no reason. So first, what is the National Science Board, the entity that she was one of the entities she was resigning from? So the National Science Board of the United States establishes policies of the National Science Foundation, which is one of the biggest and most important funders of scientific research in our country. The National Science Board also serves as an independent policy advisory body to the president and Congress on science and engineering research and education issues. Basically, it supports all non-medical science research in the United States.

So kind of like NIH, the National Institute of Health, that is the health and medical counterpart of the National Science Foundation. And basically, like, it is why I am talking to you about technology and the internet on a podcast, because if it was not for this board, we would not have the internet. Like, it is important. So her peace in time explaining her decision to resign isn't just maddening because this, like, accomplished person is being pushed out of government, although, yes, that. It's also maddening because it shows how much the Trump administration is attacking and gutting

these organizations that technology and scientific advancement really rely on. I was watching this, this is like a side frustration. I was watching this podcast with Pete Buttigieg. And he's been on these like podcast bro type podcast recently. And there was one where he was basically explaining to the world's stupidest podcast bro that the internet would not exist and like the iPhone would not exist without the government because it was essentially a project of the government in collaboration with researchers and universities, why we have the internet at all.

And it really, him having to explain that really revealed that like some people just don't know or don't think about or have not been taught about where research and scientific and technological advances come from in this country. And that if we didn't have research, like funded research, we didn't have universities, if we didn't have government, these things that we take for granted like the internet would not exist. We would not be, like, we would be a completely different country. And I would argue a worse country, if not for these things. For so long, the U.S. has led the world in scientific discovery and technological innovation and, like, improved our lives and drove economic prosperity.

And it is just depressing as hell to watch Trump from all of this away because it's woke or whatever. And then watch people who do not really get it, cheer it on and not realize that you are cheering on. something that is going to make all of our lives so much worse. So I think everybody should read her piece in time explaining her decision to resign, but I want to share a couple of pieces of it because it really, I thought, was so perfectly put. So she says that initially she planned to stay in government, but at a certain point, that kind of just became impossible. She writes, perseverance has its limits, the erosion of these institutions' integrity, and the growing realization that it is impossible to fulfill their missions in good faith has made the cost of

continuing untenable. That is why I'm a step away from my work with two federal institutions that I care deeply about. In both of these roles, over the past few years, I've been asked to serve on diverse bodies that offer guidance about how the executive and legislative branches can be stewards of knowledge and create structure to enable discovery, innovation, and ingenuity. In the case of the National Science Board, this ideal has dissolved so gradually, yet so completely, that I barely noticed its absence until confronted with its hollow simulacrum. And yeah, that really, that really I feel like that really just packs a punch of how difficult it would be. Because when all of this started happening, I was someone who was like,

federal worker should just stick it out. We need their voices like make them fire you, blah, blah, blah. And I still sort of feel that way. But I had never really thought about what it would be like to continue to have your name as the overseer of a board that its mission had been so hollowed that it. it was just like fake, like how difficult that would be. Yeah, yeah. Once your job becomes like enacting the kinds of draconian policies as well, like, yeah,

it's, it's enraging. It is. And she calls out like just the general attacks on knowledge that this administration has pushed forth writing this hollowing out is not just about governance in the abstract. It has material consequences for which research questions get asked. which data sets get produced, which knowledge gets produced, and which perspectives shape our understanding of pressing societal challenges. It has consequences for the integrity of knowledge itself. And I think that is so true that, you know, again, I feel like it's

easy to take for granted that there are smart people asking the questions that are going to lead to scientific advancements, right? Like, there are people who are solving problems and challenges that somebody like me might not, that have not even been revealed to somebody like me and thank God somebody's working on it. Like, what do we get when those people are attacked and pushed out of the important work they've been doing? Right. And all of their research funding drained.

Like, it also seems like part of this, an extension of the whole, like, Trumpian mentality and like conservative mentality of running the business, running the government like it's a business, like it's a corporation. So if something is not immediately turning you a profit, then it's, out the door. It's just like, no, things don't. It doesn't work that way. And that's just not, I mean, like, that's just not how we get innovation.

Like, like, so many innovations take a long time to reveal themselves or, like, take some collaboration or like, yeah, they're slow burns. And like, thank God somebody stuck it out to see them to the end. Because it's like, there was this great thing or this great development that helped everybody. Like, it's just, it's just not how, it's just not how any of this works. So in addition to resigning from her position at the National Science Board, she's also resigning from her position on the Library of Congress Scholars Council, which is like a body of distinguished individuals convened by the Librarian of Congress

to advise on matters related to scholarship at the Library of Congress. So y'all might have seen recently that the librarian of Congress, Dr. Carla Hayden, was recently fired really for no good reason. That's, okay, I had missed that news. And I mean, I'm not shocked because she is a black woman. And it seems like every black woman in the federal government, you know, has a target on her back. So exactly that. Nelson points out that in the email dismissing her, she was.

So this is someone with a PhD, right? She's Dr. Carla Hayden. The email dismissing her was addressed to Carla, just her first name, not Dr. Hayden, which is like insult to injury. And importantly, it sounds like Trump just like, fired this woman on his own. He was not acting on behalf of the lawmakers who oversee the Library of Congress. And the White House press secretary said that she was being fired, quote, for things she had done at the Library of Congress in the pursuit of DEI and putting inappropriate books in the library for children. So I want to play just a quick bit of audio of that press

conference. Question. The president fired the librarian of Congress. Why do you choose to do that? We felt she did not fit the means of the American people. There were quite concerning things. that she had done at the Library of Congress in the pursuit of DEI and putting inappropriate books in the library for children. And we don't believe that she was serving the interests of the American taxpayer well. So she has been removed from her position and the president is well within his rights to do that. Has she visited the Library of Congress? That's what I'm saying.

Like, think about this for one second. Does she think that the Library of Congress lends out books to kids? Like, genuinely does she think that it doesn't lend out books to anyone? Like its job is to house all the published books in the United States. So like, first of all, the way that I could never, obviously this would never happen, but like, I just cannot imagine sitting in a press conference and hearing somebody say that and not being like a bullshit or even just asking a follow up. But I guess like, who would be asking the follow up at this point? Like, one American news.

They're like, sure, yeah, that's right. She was lending out books to kids that were inappropriate. It's like, sure. And I think you're exactly right that like, and, and. Nelson clocks this in her piece. She says that like the reason why they pushed her out is because they are just like pushing out black women in public service under whatever pretence they invent and that's that. Like they don't even have to have a real answer that makes any sense in reality whatsoever.

Nelson writes, the ouster of Hayden is part of a broader pattern of political targeting of women and black public servants across the federal government. So exactly what you said, right? And I wonder too if part of Trump taking. it like firing her himself and the way it sounds like it went down it seems like there's also like a real distaste for anyone who was the first in their position too which I believe Carla Harden was she was sorry yeah I completely agree and it's like it just really crystallizes the way that they are being so explicit about rolling back any progress right like

And I guess that's the thing is like it does feel, I really work hard to not feel defeated in this moment when things feel so bad. But like that's what it feels like. It feels like what they're trying to do is be like any gains that women or, you know, historically marginalized folks have made. We want to make it. We want to like to spell it out that those are being erased. And I guess now that I'm saying it out loud, they can take it off the website, they can fire people. I wish they wouldn't, but they can. But we know, right? Like, they can't take away the gains that we have made. They can try, they can pull their little bullshit and their little scams, but like they can't take being the first black anything away from anybody, even if they do delete it from the website.

And I mean, unless I misunderstand completely how the Library of Congress works, which is possible, even if, let's say, the former librarian of Congress did put out some books for the children. Even if that did happen, guess what? Those books are still cataloged at the Library of Congress. Like those books are still not going anywhere. Yeah, exactly. Like, the point of the Library of Congress is that it holds all the books. So, like, if this book was published, you don't have to like it, but you can't take it

out of the Library of Congress. Like, that's not how it works. So I feel like Nelson really is speaking so powerfully to this moment that we're in. She writes, to watch these changes unfold without naming them for what they are is to participate in a collective amnesia about how knowledge infrastructures shape power relations. Like the shopkeeper in an authoritarian society described by Vaclav Havel in his essay, the power of powerlessness, who participates in his own oppression through small daily acts of complicity, placing a party slogan in his window, not out of conviction, but out of habit. To remain on advisory boards that have been stripped of meaningful advisory function is to become that shopkeeper, to lend, legitimacy to a process that has been systematically delegitimized. And yeah, I mean, I really appreciate that she is not just leaving quietly, that she is leaving with such a resounding,

clear warning to all of us about what happens when you do become complicit, not out of conviction, but out of habit. When you do say, like, oh, yeah, like, they deleted all this stuff from the website. I guess it never happened. Like, when you allow for this to become, become legitimized. And I just, it would have been so easy and probably like, advisable in some ways for her to leave quietly. But I'm so glad she chose to leave loudly. And I think everybody should read her parting words. It is like a warning to us all. Okay. So real quick, last story. I think it's, I can do it very quickly, actually, because to remember back in 2023, when HBO became just Max and everybody hated it.

Oh my. Yeah. How could I? Where were you? You know? It's one of those. It is. You're joking.

But yo, I remember being like, why would they take away the HBO? Like I was so like angry because like HBO was this like, what do you think of HBO? You think of like soprano, sex in the city, like these like iconic shows. And it's like, yeah, let's just be Max.

Like what is that? Yeah, I was unnecessary. stubborn about it in the way of like, I'm not going to call it X. It's the story. It's very much like, it's not max. Well, don't worry because they're going back to HBO Max now. That's it. That's the story. They've, they're back to it. They've heard our complaints. I would love to see. I want to see a spreadsheet of a breakdown of how much that circular decision cost. I'm so, I've, I had the same, I had the same question like, how much money did an executive get paid to make the initial choice? How much money went to change the branding? I have so many questions. Oh, my God.

And you know that there were so many like brainstorm sessions and, oh, wow, that's incredible. Let me ask you this. When you hear the like HBO like static, like, what's the, what is the like theme song? This is the question I ask everybody. What is the like theme song that you're like, oh, when you hear that HBO, intro noise, you know it's going to be this show. It's either Sex in the City or Sopranos. Okay. I think those are the only two acceptable answers. Producer mics.

You want to chime in and tell us what it is because I make fun of you all the time. There's a period when I was watching a lot of true blood. And I was just powering through one episode after another. And yeah, that was really my, my, I didn't grow up with HBO. You know, I came from a family where we just had three channels. So this was the period when I had access to like an unlimited set of all of the shows. And it was just like static sound show. Static sound show.

It like trained my brain. So yeah, I'm not going to apologize. What a weird answer. Very unexpected. I have it. Now you've got me wanting to ask. I have one friend who was a true bloodhead. And now I want to ask her the same question.

Did you just make that? Did you make up, is true blood had what they call themselves? Is that like? No, I don't know. Mike, Mike would know. As a member of the true blood fan community, that's not a term that we use to identify ourselves. It's not, it's not canon.

Good to know, good to know. Well, Kristen, this has been incredible. Where can folks hear the podcast, the multiple podcasts, where can folks keep up with you? How can they get the book? Tell us all the things. Well, thank you so much for having me. Again, this was so fun. Folks can listen to Unladylike podcast and the Gender War Games miniseries, all four episodes of that are out now.

Just search Unladylike or if you want something a little weirder. Just look for a conspiracy, she wrote. I just started a new mini-series on that today, actually. What is the mini-series exploring? Well, the Earth is such a dumpster fire, which is taking a quick break to aliens and UFO. Oh, my God. So, like, I am also in, like, the conspiracy world, but so often they're, like, QAnon. It's, like, nice to take a little break with, like, oh, aliens.

Yes. I mean, all roads will eventually lead back to Q&O. And, like, you know, I mean, they all route the same place. But, and I didn't even think about beforehand, like, how much, like, UFOs and aliens are just, it's all like anti-government stuff that takes me right back down to earth, which is where I wanted to leave. But yeah, it's been a fun kind of mental break. But it's fascinating. I never really like spent a ton of time thinking about UFOs. And now I think I've spent too much time. So come listen to conspiracy, she wrote. The truth is out there and you're

going to find it. Kristen, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for being here. our inaugural guest co-host on There Are No Girls on the Internet. Y'all can follow me on Instagram at Bridgett, Marie, D.C. on TikTok at Bridgett Marie, D.C. On YouTube, there are no girls on the internet.

I know that sounds very awkward. I just started doing more social media, so don't make fun of me. I'm being perceived there, and it's fine. Thanks so much for listening. I will see you soon. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoody.com

Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoity.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts, from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert. smiglin friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ashanti Plummer from Fud Around and Find Out.

This week, Aizzie Fudd and I sat down with Step and Curry. Step talks pressure, confidence, and what it really takes to stay great. There's different categories, I guess, so I'm like conditioning, shooting drills where you try to simulate kind of games. Look at her face. We have a love-hate relationship with those because you know you're getting something out of it. You don't look forward to those days. Listen to Futter Around and Find out on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is.

Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.