There Are No Girls on the Internet - Leslie Jones: How Milo Yiannopoulos Weaponized A Ghostbusters Remake

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

We're joined by Prop, host of Hood Politics, to discuss the targeted Twitter hate campaign led by Milo Yiannopoulos against comedian & SNL alum Leslie Jones, that stemmed from her casting in the 2016 Ghostbusters remake.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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business. Call 844-844-I-Hart. Why are we all so obsessed with romance? On the radio 831 podcast, join us, Sanjana Basker and Tyler McCall. As we unpack all the trending tropes, fuzzy adaptations, book talk drama, and celebrity love stories with hot takes and sharp guests. Each episode digs into what these stories reveal about desire, fantasy, identity, and how we love now. Listen to the Radio 831 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to another episode of Internet Hate Machine. I am joined by my producer Sophie. Hey, Sophie. Hey, Bridgett. And we are so excited to be. And we are so excited to We're joined today by our guest, Prop.

Probably no prop from his amazing podcasthood politics or his amazing coffee company. Let's go. Let's go. Thank you so much for being here. Dog, I can't wait to do this and just be physically outraged by all the stuff y'all got to go through. Oh, you're about to be outraged. Before we get into it, I have to ask, you tweeted about losing followers since must took over Twitter. What has it been like to be on Twitter since must took over in your view?

I mean, honestly, I was like, I don't want to get involved with the like, I don't want to feed it. So I was like, I honestly pulled the like, well, let's see. You know what I'm saying? Let me see what it is. And every once in a while I kind of go through my own like sort of bot purging, whatever, right? But definitely, I first I saw a complete surge of like porn bots and then a complete surge of like these like, anybody that's got like an American flag and Patriot in their bio.

Like I just had a surge of that. And I was like, why are y'all here? Right. And then, yeah, and then I just started like just handful of day, you know what I'm saying? So I'm down like 500 followers, which is fine. But it was more like, dude, I used to lose followers because of like what I said.

Not just like out of nowhere. Like, what is this about? I wish I could earn my losing. You know what I'm saying? But definitely like I haven't seen a lot the like uptick and like hate and like vitriol I guess because I was already a public figure so I feel like I already went through my fair share of that you know I'm saying so to me I'm like like when they talk about like crime wave I'm like crime is not up I live through LA in the 90s this is

fine right so so for me I'm like oh baby this ain't nothing but I will say I have enjoyed all the like fake or the the Twitter blue stuff. Yeah. And like people like paying for their verification and creating trolls. And then realizing now you could click it and it could say like, nah, this fool's actually verified. Or be like, nah, that food paid for it. You know. But generally like it's it's kind of been, except for just the losing of followers, like for me personally, it's kind of been the same.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been, it's such a weird spot that we're in. I completely agree with you. I've been seeing an uptick in porn and crypto scams. One of my favorite podcasters, Lacey got was hit by like a crypto scamer. And I think we're in this no man's land right now where scams and pranks and trolls have, I think, really been empowered and emboldened.

Very much. And I don't necessarily see Elon Musk taking it seriously. And I think it's a real problem. I think it can really, you know, open up the platform. to be misused. He definitely has the like, the way, the way I've been looking, thinking about it is like, this fool is still a seventh grader, right? Right.

And being like, I can jump off that roof. And then like, all the homies being like, bro, you don't have to jump off the roof. All right, he's cool. Like, I don't know why you feel like you got to do that. No, I could do it. And then the homes are like, all right, do it. You know what I'm saying? Now this fool climbed on the roof and it's like, oh, shit.

Niggie, okay, do it. Like, you're going to, if you're going to do it, do it. You know what I'm saying? And him realizing, like, I immediately read it's, it's Ron Burgundy jumping into the bear trap. You know what I'm saying? Right. And being like, I immediately regret this decision. And to me, it's like, I will say my Twitter experience, maybe not my personal one, but my, like, as a user have been, the scams have been so funny to me.

Like, seeing people like all the other fake Elon Musk like accounts, the fake LeBron James account. And just, and wondering how like, I think we talked about this before on the episode. we have with a politics. Like, if you would just take like an extra second to like, once you see the name and the check and then just read the person's app mention their actual handle and you're like, oh, this is a joke. You know, and just or like it was like LeBron James with a Z at the end. So I'm like, that's clearly not LeBron James. People don't do that though. Yeah.

People don't take the time to do that. Yeah. And I think where we're at right now is the funny stories are. are what are getting press right now. Yeah. But I only know the funny ones. Right. And that's what's, you know, forward facing.

But in reality, like, clearly security and safety are not Elon's priority. And as we know from the show, the people that are going to be affected from this most are marginalized people. And that shit sucks. Yeah. And Elon sucks. Yeah. That's that intersection, man, right? Like you said, it's like, obviously the show is.

like, obviously the show is about the experience of, like, marginalized, you know, specifically women of color. And it's like, of course, I'm marginalized, but I'm also not a woman of color. So I'm going to have a different experience. And I think that, yeah, like, that it's important that, you know, that's why I'm glad this show's happening. You know what I mean? Because it's important to, like, go, yeah.

The timeliness of this show is unbelievable. Yeah. This may not be my experience. Yeah. This may not be my experience because I'm definitely like a. A lot of the stuff that I did, like, even, you know, surviving my upbringing was like, I was very good at staying out of stuff. Like, I'm like, yo, I just don't, I just stay out of it unless I need to be in it.

You know what I'm saying? Until, like, you know, somebody turns to me, like, even like, you know, to carry the metaphor, like, you know, if it's a, if it's a, if it's a woman of color, like, I'm going stay out of it until she looks at me like, hey, you going to say something? It's like, all right, I'm going to go break this niggas jaw. Like, just, you, I'm not going to. a move until you tell me. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you tell me, then let's go. But if not, I'm like, oh, she got it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm usually not worried. Like, oh, she got it.

She's going to drag y'all. And for me, it's like, I'm ready for the show, which is what, which I love about this Leslie Jones episode, because I don't know if we're not supposed to reveal that yet, but like, I was like in that whole, I remember that saga. And I was like, yeah, I was like, she dragging them. And it was funny to me. What do you remember about it? I remember. I remember how it was weird and random to me where I was like, I don't know when it started, like how all it started or why her. I was like, the fuck did she do?

Like, why are y'all? This seems so out of nowhere to me. Like, this is so random. And, but I also knew she was very funny. And for me, I was like, she, like, y'all picked on the wrong person because I'm like, she's going to drag y'all. And to me, I, I, was the fact that like she wasn't like, man, I'm so sorry.

Like, why is everybody picking on me? She was like, nigger, your mama got funny feet. You know what I'm saying? Like, and I was like, you know, fuck you, your head pointy. And I'm like, she's, I was like, to me, I was like, okay, you ought to look, y'all have poked the bull. So to me I was, you got the wrong one. She's not the one.

And to me it was funny. What was funny was her, the way that she was dragging them back. It wasn't funny what was happening to her, but her answers were like... Well, Lazy Jones is like one of the funniest people. She's hysterical. She's hysterical. And I was like, I don't understand what y'all problem with her is. She's hilarious.

You're like, what, what's the problem? Okay, this is a perfect segue. Tell us the problem. This is the per... I could not have set this segue up better. So let's get into it. Okay. So on the heels, in our last few episodes we were talking about,

Gamergate and all of these tensions around marginalized folks, I guess I would say the perception that they're invading these spaces that have been traditionally thought of as like very white and very well, right? Okay. Video games, tech and film. Yeah. So you have all of these like largely white dudes who are frustrated and angry that they feel like they're being kind of threatened in these spaces.

Just the idea of like someone who's not a white dude entering these spaces and existing in these spaces. And so, enter one of our major players for this conversation, Steve Bannon. Don, done, done. I know, right? This starts at Steve Bannon? It starts with Steve Bannon. You're probably thinking like, we're talking about Leslie Jones, where I was trying to get Steve Bannon. And it's because Steve Bannon was an early figure who really saw what a powerful force these frustrated, disaffected, you know, fragile, threatened white guys could be. And he thinks, wow, we need to harness this and weaponize and consignize and consensual. their political power.

So let's talk a little bit about why that is. It's going to get a, I'll breeze through this. It's going to get a little bit technical. I'm going to warn folks, but I found this fascinating. And if you let me talk about this. I feel like we need this part, Bridget. Like I feel like we need the entire technical timeline of this entire mess. Yeah.

Okay. So let's do it. So you might be thinking, why did Steve Bannon, like why was he mixed up with all of these male gamers? Well, it's because he saw the power of these gamers firsthand himself. Before Bannon was in the Trump White House or possibly maybe going to jail, he was a successful Wall Street dude. In 2005, Steve Bannon hooked up with a Hong Kong-based startup called Internet Gaming Entertainment or IGE.

IGEE was this company that was making millions and millions of dollars through selling virtual goods for real money within video games like Everpest or World of Warcraft. Did you ever play any of those games? Bro, once the remotes went from like four buttons to like eight, I was out. Literally, literally just assume the dad response from prop on certain things. Like, at the beginning when prop is like, yeah, I'm going to sit out of this. I was like, okay, dad. Yeah. Yeah.

But yeah, no. Yeah, no, for real. I was like, yeah, the game, like once it was like, you know, I checked out pretty early on games. Okay. Because I was like, man, it's too much. And because it was like, man, I'm already into so many niches. Like, I'm already like, you know, neck deep in coffee. I'm neck deep in hip hop.

And especially at that time, I'm like, I mean, the beat starts. I tell you what machine they used, what side chain compression, where this rapper from, you know, other side project. I was so deep into a niche already that I was like, man, I ain't got time to learn no other. Yeah, you don't need another rabbit hole to immerse yourself in. So I was like, I can't keep up, Doug. Yeah. So essentially what this company, IGE was doing is selling these like in-game capes or wands or tokens that would allow players to pay real money to immediately level up within the game

rather than having to work their way up to a certain level. So if you ever played games that involve levels, some people, you know, if you have money to spare but not a lot of time, you might pay to just like enter the game at a higher level. IGE was not the first company to do this. It's actually a common practice called gold farming where low-paid workers in places like China will play these games like World of Warcraft for hours to acquire what they call gold or currency within the game

and then sell it to other players. Got it. So the problem with this is that it's not totally, at the time it was not totally legal. It was actually prohibited by the companies that make the games. And so it was sort of in this legal gray area. And Steve Bannon came on to IGE to try to turn this from, you know, a practice that existed in a legal gray area to really legitimize it by selling the companies that made these video games on the idea that players would be willing to spend like real money to level up in their gameplay in this way. I know we're talking about like gaming and video games, but this shit was like big business.

Bannon got Goldman Sachs to invest $10 million in the company. IgE. No, I'm like, this the type of stuff that, like, also turn me off with video games. I was like,

wait, I got to, I need to buy this sword. No, I'm good. Exactly. Like, I have to spend my real money on a virtual sword. What the hell kind of game is this? The game don't come with what I need.

I got to buy this? No, I'm good. Totally. I mean, you're not alone in this. Yeah, IKEA head-ass game.

Like, like, what kind of, what other product can you buy and just comes not put together? Like, would not every, like, what? I don't have everything I need even though I bought it. No, I'm good.

Anyway, go on. When you go to the IKEA showroom and you see the dresser all put together and then you buy it and it comes in that flat box, you're like, wait a minute, wait a minute. What is this? I bought a couch. What is this box? Yeah, anyway, go on. So Steve Bannon, he was really brought on to be the adult in the room in this

video game company, right? He was going to be the money man who was going to get all this sweet, sweet Goldman Sachs financing and also get the companies that made video games on board with the idea that they should be in the business of selling this pay-to-play kind of scheme with gaming. His first big fish was Blizzard. They make the game World of Warcraft. And back in 2005, like, this was the game. I was in college in 2005. Like, I played it a little bit because my then boyfriend, a whole long story.

My then boyfriend was obsessed with it. And I was like, oh, learn to play this game so I can, you know, connect with him. I'm not surprised that of all the video game companies to come into the story that it's Blizzard. Because Blizzard has, Activision Blizzard has so many lawsuits. Oh, my God. So many lawsuits. Yeah. So many.

Like still, like still. Yeah. This is still happening. This is like where you go to like a place, you know what I'm saying, a whole bunch of laptops and your computers and your playing World of Warcraft. I remember walking in and being like, yeah, no, I'm good. I just laughed. Like, I'm just here for the coffee, but I'm not trying to hang out with you.

Yeah, y'all got. Y'all got coffee? I am sad to say that you just described an environment where I spent an inordinate amount of time in college, not because I particularly enjoyed it or wanted to be there because I thought that's how you got, like, dudes to be interested in you is to pretend. Like, I'm really enjoying being at this, like, land. party. I don't want to be home watching real world and listening to Mariah Carey. I'm having a great time.

Oh, poor college. I know, I know. It wasn't. It wasn't great. She should have hang with us, man. It wasn't great. Girl, come to this open mic with us. Yeah. Yeah. So Steve Vannon is his big fish as Blizzard. He's hoping that he can get these executives on board.

And in fact, it was quite the opposite. Blizzard executives were not on board with this idea of having users pay to level up within the games. And in May of 2006, they actually cracked down on that scheme, calling it cheating. And they put out a press release saying that they had banned over 30,000 accounts on their games who were engaging in that practice. IGE and their supplier suffered a huge loss after this crackdown. IGE was losing $500,000 a month. And so this was like a huge, like they were hemorrhging money because of this crackdown. And something to know about gamers is that they really hated this pay-to-play scheme.

Okay, good. Gamers got organized. They, you know, ended up delivering another big blow to IGE's business. World of Warcraft users actually sued IGE. In 2007, a gamer in Florida lodged a class action lawsuit against IGEE. And according to The Washington Post, the lawsuit alleged that IGEE had received tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars selling World of Warcraft virtual property or currency generated by cheap labor in third world countries. So, you know, and like, what's interesting about this is that IGE settled that lawsuit.

And as part of that settlement, they promised not to sell virtual currency in World of Warcraft for five years. Bannon then becomes the CEO of IGE in 2007. He moves the company kind of away from this gold farming scheme to focus on things like gaming chat rooms and gaming websites, some of which he had acquired during this like gold farming operation. In these chat rooms, full of gamers, full of people who were passionate about gaming, they were super, super vocal about how much they hated IGE's pay-to-play schemes. You know, they were, something to know about gamers is that they kind of consider themselves to be kind of, I guess, values-based.

You know, they felt that it was unfair. Yeah. And that, like, this scheme went against what they saw as the egalitarian spirit of gameplay. Yeah. They were fervent. They used these websites that Bannon was running to organize and to pressure companies who were operating these games not to partner with IGE. And Steve Bannon, he saw all of this.

He saw the ways that these gamers hated pay to play. They were successful in rallying each other to keep gold farming out of their games. He saw firsthand that gamers were this big, powerful, passionate community that would really dig in around an issue that they felt. highlighted their shared values. In a book called The Devil's Bargain by journalist Joshua Green about the rise of Bannon and Trump's presidency, Bannon said, these guys, these rootless white males, had monster power.

So he definitely early on was like, wait, these gamers, they're serious. Yo, this is like two things I'd camp on. One is like, I still don't understand the five-year number where it's like, we'll stop selling for five years. It's like, no, bam, no, it's, you can't do this. What'd you mean? Okay, we'll chill for a little bit. Like, no, fam, you can't.

No, okay, we'll chill. No problem. So I'm like, where did this five-year number come from that you just agree to stop doing something illegal just for five years? And then secondly, it's definitely like an interesting, like, thing to witness, like, the birth of a villain. It was like, when you're like, oh, word, this was when...

This is like attack of the clones. It's like when the Sith, when the dark side switches and all the clones become evil. Like, I was like, oh my God, this is it. You just turned them into Stormtroopers. This is the moment. Oh, my God. That's such a good. Oh, so that's such a good analogy for where this conversation goes because it's so, it's so true how you can take this disaffected group and really successfully radicalize them and turn them against a common enemy, even if it's not necessarily a common enemy that they had.

before all of this. No, you just turn them in a Stormtroopers. Yeah. It's crazy. That's such a good comparison. And so Bannon takes over at Breitbart News in 2012. If you don't know what Breitbart news is, it's an extremist right wing media site that Steve Bannon himself once declared as, quote, the platform for the alt-right.

And I really have to give it to Steve Bannon here because he's very savvy. He sees the potential in building out Breitbart into this digitally savvy plugged-in outlet with a young audience base. And he also sees huge potential in marrying what he learned during his time running gaming chat rooms with IGE with this toxic white supremacist ideology. He's like, wait a minute. If I combine these things, my power, like, this will be very powerful. And he was right. Yeah.

Yeah. Another thing, like, if I'm going to give that man any credit, it's the fact that, like, he's not, he's very upfront of what he's doing. He's like, nah, these are, this is all right. He's a white boys. and I can feed them racism and they'll make us, they'll give us power. Exactly. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. Exactly.

He's very open about it. Yeah, he's like, yeah, that's what I'm doing. Yeah. So this is where another major player in the harassment of Leslie Jones emerges, Milo Yanopoulos. We've talked about this a little bit, Sophie and I. On October 27, 2015, Brightbart launches a tech vertical that will focus on internet culture and video games.

And Steve Bannon recruits Milo to run it as tech editor. Most of the articles, like, it's funny because when I was doing the research for this, I was like, what did Milo have to do with tech? But actually, I was saying correct. He actually did have a background as a tech journalist before all of this. I didn't know that. The website that Milo founded called The Kernel was actually acquired by the tech website, The Daily Dot. So he actually did have some like bona fides in actual tech journalism. However, when he got to Breitbart, I think that calling.

the stuff that he was writing tech is a little generous, because it's all kind of framed as these conversations. It's all very reactionary, right? And so all the articles that he writes on Breitbart on this tech vertical are not really about tech, inso much as they're about all of these different ways that white men are being pushed out of technology and video games and culture, which is just nonsense.

Like every article is about, you know, making fun of feminists or women or fat people. Like, it's all very reactionary. But I guess, like, that's the kind of tech storytelling that... Okay. That Milo and Steve Bannon were interested in because they know this is going to get these young white males riled up. It works. Yeah.

So Milo has a lot of appeal with exactly the kind of young men that Bannon is looking to court as a resource and weaponize. Milo is young. He's active online. And most importantly, he revels in being offensive and insulting. people. And I have to say, just like a lot of gamers. Like, if you ever played video games, I'm not saying all gamers do this by a wide margin, but that's certainly one of the cultural nuances of gaming is like, you know, calling each other slurs and talking shit, right? Like, and that's part of it. I could see, like, gamers being into him, but I don't think, like,

Milo probably doesn't give a shit about gamers. I was like, yeah, no, I can't see him. Yeah, he's like, No, you don't hear shit about these schools. Yeah. Exactly. So you are exactly right. Milo doesn't give us shit about gamers or any of this stuff. The same year that Milo starts up at Breitbart, we see the rise of another big figure who loves being online and revels in being offensive.

Oh, God. Can you guess who I'm talking about? Who is this? Donald Trump. Trump announces his bid for presidency the same year that Milo becomes tech editor. I'm good. Thanks. My socials are, you know.

You're like, I'm done. I'm done. I don't need to finish this. Yeah. So Bannon told Joshua Green, the journalist who wrote that book about his rise, quote, I realized Milo could connect with these kids right away. You can activate that army. They come in through Gamergate or whatever else,

and then they can get turned on to politics and Trump. So as Sophie said, Milo does not give a shit about gamers or video games. And actually, early on in his career, he spent a lot of time. time mocking video gamers and belittling them. But Milo does understand that gamers are an easily riled up, easily stoked audience and that he can stoke their sense of victimization around things like Gamergate or threats posed by like woke PC culture and basically get them on board or anything. I'm still trying to like figure out how they figured out to go from games to racism to

of voting Trump in the office. That thread, although it's now in hindsight, you're like, oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Totally. How did you? Because they saw white male rage in like mass. That must be it.

Because I'm just like nerds. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, you know, in the most like, you know, if I'm going to be as basic as possible. I'm like, are you thinking like, and these nerds is really riled up? I bet you they could make somebody president. Like how you... Yes. Basically, yes.

Wow, yeah. And again, I have to really give it to Steve Bannon because I don't think a lot of people saw that... I wouldn't have done that. Yeah. Like, it really does take a kind of savvy guy to see that. And so, as you said, you know, when you look at Milo's writing, it kind of becomes clear how he was doing this. Despite not really being involved in Gamergate, Milo writes about it constantly. And he really frames it as these PC leftist culture police attacking these poor, powerless gamers who don't have any social capital.

But paradoxically, his writing also really flatters gamers in these like over the top ways. He writes constantly about how they are, you know, have this unchecked, unseen power that only he sees. I went back and read a fuck ton of Milo's writing, which was not so pleasant. Not fun at all. But you really, the radicalization tactics are super clear. He speaks to their grievances of this audience and then connects those grievances to these big politicized boogeymen and tells them, oh, Trump, who Milo refers to as daddy pretty often. Oh my God. I know.

It's bad. It's bad. Okay. He tells them Trump is the answer to their disaffection. And, you know, Trump probably doesn't give a shit about gaming or game journalism. But you know what he does? I'm like, yeah, on mommas, he don't even know how this is happening either. He's just like, he's like, he doesn't know what he's doing.

Yeah, anyway. Exactly. So Trump, he doesn't care about ethics and gaming journalism or gaming or any of that. But he does often attack the, you know, crooked media. He does talk about jailing journalists. So you can sort of see how these grievances that these gamers had are kind of being stoked and then replaced by these other political grievances. Another podcast from some SNL late night comments.

comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined.

So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-844-I-Hart. What's up, fam?

It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this. series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. After you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court. you gonna get the bomb. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's take a look at some of Milo's writing from Breitbart.

In 2014, right after Gamergate, he wrote, quote, It's easy to mock video gamers as dorky loners in yellowing underpants. Indeed, in previous columns, I've done it myself. But the more you learn about the latest scandal in the games industry, the more you start to sympathize with the frustrated male stereotype because an army of sociopathic feminist programmers and campaigners, abetted by achingly politically correct American tech bloggers are terrorizing the entire community,

lying, bullying, and manipulating their way around the internet for profit and attention. So you can sort of see how, like, he is able to stoke these concerns and then politicize them in a very particular way. He goes on to say, quote, gamers should concentrate on the very real concerns they have had for a decade with a press that swamped with the discredited far-left ideology and unintelligent poorly trained writers refuses to tell basic truths. So you can sort of see how even if you were a video gamer who had some grievances with the gaming space, what he's saying is like, you're mad about gaming and also the far left

and also Democrats and also the media. First of all, what a great writer, which is what part is what sucks about it. It's like, damn, he's actually a good writer. But like, but yeah, that move of like, man, it's like, to me it's like, man, to me, it's like, man, I spot a hustle from a mile away when somebody's like, y'all, that's crazy, man, how they make fun of y'all. Like, you know what? Yeah, dude, they do be making fun of us. May I just think you just, you know, you just know nothing, this and this and this. And you know what you're trying to open up the book. You want to talk about the game.

They talk about something else. It's like, yeah, man, I'm more interested in the game. And it's like, yeah, it's because, you know, and we know we hate the woke left that be doing that to you. And you're like, wait. Wait a minute. Wait, that's what we mad about? Like, okay, yeah, that's what, well, what we mad about. And I guess I'm just putting myself in the shoes of a person who may have fall for this, but like that first few times you read it, you was like, what? That's what we mad about? And then after a while, you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's what we're mad about. It's that, you know what I'm saying? Because you started off with stuff that I actually am mad

about, which is like, yeah, man. Exactly. It is such an effective radicalization tactic. And honestly, Milo basically says as much, in one piece he writes, women, and you won't hear this anywhere else, are screwing up the internet for men by invading every space we have online and ruining it with their attention seeking and a needy, demanding, touchy-feely form of modern feminism that quickly comes into conflict with men's natural tendency to be boisterous, confrontational, and delightfully autistic. And so you really, exactly what you said, prop, he really is connecting these men in their feelings around gaming to these broader political grievances. So it's not just about gaming journalism.

Even that is like dubious, but it's also about, you know, hating leftists and the media and institutions and telling these people, like, you are being bullied and ignored and attacked by the culture. And it really creates the situation where these spaces,

you know, gaming, culture, film, are turned into a battlefield. Like a, whereby Milo is kind of selling these men on the idea that resisting kind of social justice warriors and taking back video games and taking back text bases and taking back film is a kind of activism in and of itself. Yeah. Yeah. You're speaking their language, but in a weird way and then twisting the same words

into mean something else. And all of a sudden, it's like now we're so far down the road. It's like, well, now I'm here. I guess I do believe this stuff. Man, yeah, this is so sinister, dude. And again, it's like, first of all, these kids ain't victims, number one. You know what I'm saying? And they are. You know what I mean? They've been weaponized. You know what I'm saying? But it's like I my my brain goes to a place to where it's like I don't know if you had the sort of like sociocultural just societal engineering and experiences to know when you being swindled you know what I'm saying to be able to step back and be like oh look man speak for yourself homie that look that's that shit you own that's not what I'm on like you know what I'm saying like I and I feel like that

whether I don't know, street smarts, whatever it is, it's just like, I know how to be like, hold up now, speak for yourself. You know what I'm saying? Like, wait, nah, homie, that's not why I'm here. You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, I like the game, but like, no, that's not why I'm here. You know what I'm saying? Like walking the club.

Hey, it's a dope club, right? Hey, you like this music? Yeah, nigga, we fin to get fucked up. You know what I'm saying? Hey, we're going to smash a thousand girls tonight. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. Whoa.

I'm just, you know what I'm saying? like, I'm gonna get a little bit of hanny and listen to some music. Like, that shit you own? That's your problem. You know what I'm saying? But like, I'm maybe it's, I'm like, and I'm trying to say like,

maybe they didn't have that experience. You know what I'm saying? To be able to like know when this is happening to you to stop and be like, hold up, because like, that way, no, that's you. You speak for yourself, homie, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's such a good point. I think it's very easy to get

sucked in when someone is like flattering you telling you that you are, you know, you have values that other people don't have. Yeah, and you don't only want getting it. Yeah. Or you don't only want saying it. Nobody else is validating you. Yeah. Exactly. And I think it speaks to the sort of intoxicating power of feeling seen. I think that Trump also utilizes us very well of when you take people who, you know, genuine or not feel unseen, feel unheard, whether or not that actually is true because I would argue that he did that with white people and it's like, well, what society are you living in

where white people are like unseen and unheard? Not the one I'm living in. I don't know what you're talking about, yeah. Right. But the power, I think that when you take people who feel unseen, whether they really are or not and make them feel seen, I think that can be a really intoxicating thing. Lots of drug, yeah.

Yeah, if you don't know what to look out for, you can really get people on board with stuff. I'm sorry to say, like, very easily. Yeah, yeah. So this is where Leslie Jones comes in. All right. You know, Milo and Steve Bannon have made it so that taking back these spaces, taking back video games and movies and all of that,

that feels like a form of activism. So if folks don't know who Leslie Jones is, first of all, you should because she's hysterical. She's hilarious. She is a comedian, probably best known for her time on Saturday Night Live. This is not really related to the story. but I just want to include it. Leslie Jonesy has a very interesting educational background.

She went to Chapman University on a basketball scholarship until the team's coach left to go to Colorado State. And she liked this coach so much that she followed him and transferred there. While, yeah, I think that's, I don't know why. I'm just like, oh, well, that's that she was like, oh, I'll just come with him. While she was at college, she worked as a DJ at our campus radio station. And side note, so did I. So I liked that. And she, you know, she bounced around majors.

And so her majors included accounting, pre-law, and computer science. And so I don't know. I wanted to include that because I think it speaks to the kind of dynamic person she is. She's interesting. Yeah. She's an interesting person. Yeah. Yeah.

Back in the like 2010s, Leslie Jones was sort of one of those kind of, I guess I'll say, good at Twitter celebrities, right? Like she was one of those celebrities that when she tweeted, people paid attention. And she generated a lot of goodwill for the platform. And really showed, like, how the platform could be used in these fun and new ways. During the 2016 Olympics, she was known for live tweeting the events and, like, posting her reactions. And everybody loved this. Huffington Post wrote an article, call it, saying, watching Leslie Jones watch the Olympics is better than the actual Olympics.

So, like, she was beloved. Yeah. Yeah. I followed her because she was, yeah, because of that, I was like, that was when live tweeting was something that we enjoyed. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, dude, she's the best at it. I'd be like, yeah, I'm watching. It felt like he was like at a barbecue with her.

You know, it was so fun. Yeah. So in short, Leslie is just doing her thing, minding her business. Mining her own damn business. And everyone loves her, right? Everyone loves her. So it's not like she's like doing anything wrong other than existing and minding her business. In 2016, director Paul Fagg announced that he's going to be directing a reboot of the movie Ghostbusters.

Oh, yeah. Soney initially wanted to do a sequel. Bill Murray wasn't interested, and Harold Rames had passed away. So they ended up doing a reboot with four female leads, Kristen Wigg, Melissa McCarthy, Kate McKinnon, and Leslie Jones. Now, almost as soon as this is announced, there is backlash. The trailer for Ghostbusters reboot became the most disliked trailer in the history of YouTube. The rate of dislike is remarkable.

An article on Screen Crush breaks it down, how it ranked among other hated videos on YouTube. The number one hated video on YouTube at the time was Justin Bieber's video for the song, Baby, which had 6 million thumbs down. Yes. And the Ghostbusters trailer, when you compare it to other disliked videos on the platform, it's remarkable in that it has a high ratio of dislikes. The trailer had 507,610 dislikes on just 28.7 million views. So that's a staggering 56 to 1 ratio in terms of dislikes per view. So you kind of get a sense that like it's not just that people are disliking it.

They are disliking it at a highly disproportionate rate compared to other videos that people don't like. This is not an organic thing. People are definitely gamifying, hate watching the trailer by vote-forgating. This could honestly be its own episode, but PBS that are really interesting interview with the Daily Dots managing editor, Austin Powell, who describes vote-brigating as overwhelming and manipulating rather rudimentary online systems to influence, or disrupt public perception. So basically, places like Reddit and 4chan and other alt-right circles

that are aggressively masculine were really downvoting anything that had a viewpoint that could be linked to, like, their ideology. And so because of the way that these platforms exist, it's not always easy to say, you know, where is this inorganic hate coming from? You can't always tell the source,

but the numbers make it clear that this is not, you know, less, more people are. disliking this video than are watching the video. So something weird is going on with how people are responding to it. Yeah. There's definitely like the knee jerk like where all these weirdos come in of like when you just slightly change something that doesn't remind them of the nostalgia that they're from. It's like, oh, it's like, oh, sucks. You ruined it. You know, so like, yeah, people arguing that like middle earth shouldn't have black people. Like what the, middle earth's not a real place,

number one. You know what I'm saying? And then who I forget Homeboy, but he's the, he's the one that like makes me laugh the most. Homies like, well, scientifically speaking, you know, a mermaid would not have black skin because she'd live on the bottom of them. I was like, Nikki, did you just start this sentence about a mermaid with scientifically speaking? I believe that was Ben Shapiro who was really, you know, it's so funny. These people are like, like, oh, snowflakes, blah, blah, blah. And then it's like, a black mermaid.

And then they lose their mind. It is so funny. But we're the ones, but we're the ones fragile, right? Like, we don't want, okay, word. Yeah, we're the snowflakes. Yeah, you mad, okay, you mad that Game of Thrones got black people, but I'm like, and that's unrealistic, like the dragons. Matt Walsh.

Matt Walsh. Oh, was it, Matt Walsh. Matt Walsh. Oh, was it, Matt Walsh. That did the, like, scientifically speaking. I was like, bro, I was supposed to take you serious. How could anyone take you serious after this? What is you mad about?

So, like, so I say that to say, okay, you've turned the Ghostbusters into girls. Well, it sucks. They're supposed to be. It's like, all right. You're all right. All right, let it go. Okay, stupid.

Now go watch the movie because it's actually very funny. And all four of those women are hilarious. And you know they hilarious. Like, so like, relax. Okay, you got it out. You good?

It's not exactly what you remember. Sorry. You know what I'm saying? Now, let's enjoy it. That's what I thought was going to happen. You know? I will never understand. And so like with any reboot, really,

it's not like they're making it illegal to own the original. So if you're like, oh, I was like very into the original, I don't like this reboot, that's fine. They're not, you can still just watch the original. It's not going anywhere. Just because they've added a reboot or a remake or they've made a black mermaid or whatever. Nobody is forcing you to watch it. And the thing that you love isn't going anywhere.

Like, what are you so upset about? Yeah. What's the, and it's like, okay, what's your percentage of the shareholding of that movie? Right. Is it 0.00%? What the hell you care? What's this doing for you? Do you what I'm saying?

Are you serious, fam? You just riled up over something you on own. All right. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Dave and head writer Streeter Seidel

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Yeah, and Bridgett Breesue enters the chat next on this. Oh, my God. I hate to say, You did not just put this man on my screen right now. Even Trump got in the mix. This is the weirdest video. Yeah, play this. It's the weirdest thing.

Oh, I see the hashtags already. Okay. They're remaking Indiana Jones without Harrison Ford. You can't do that. And now they're making Ghostbusters with only women. What's going on? It looked like somebody told him to say that. Why is he yelling?

Why is he yelling? It's so weird. And the way that the video stops where he's just like, what's going on? One more time. Hold on. One more time. One more time.

They're remaking Indiana Jones without Harrison Ford. You can't do that. And now they're making Ghostbusters with only women. What's going on? Oh, my God. That's so weird. So, like... Man, what the hell are you taught?

What? Look, it's that same energy that, like, I mean, it's not the same, but it's like, you go to, like, Budapest, Hawaii and be like, hey, where can we get a hot dog? This place sucks. You're hot dogs. It's like, I'm sorry it's not exactly like the place you left.

The hell are you talking about, fam? It's a different... It's so strange. What percentage of Indiana Jones do you own? It's so strange. So obviously, Ghostbusters, the reboot really tapped into all of these hot button issues around race and gender

that movements like Gamergate had exposed and inflamed. And what's interesting is that not everybody didn't like the reboot of Ghostbusters because it was like they were being anti-woke. Some people thought the jokes were bad.

Some people thought it was, you know, they didn't like that it was a remake. Some people didn't like Leslie Jones's character. Some people just don't like reboots, whatever. But the issue is that when bad actors and extremists hijack these conversations because they want to grind a political axe, it creates a situation where

wading into it at all makes people feel like they have to pick sides because it becomes so charged, right? And so you either have to hate the movie for being like a woke PC remake or you feel like you need to defend it up against these racist, sexist, sexist attacks. And so folks who are, you know,

maybe just want to like watch the movie and not necessarily have this kind of like a weighty opinion about it, they're completely drowned out. And people who, you know, just want to talk about this movie on its merits, they are also drowned out. And, you know, it creates this thing.

where the conversation turns into this highly charged proxy for culture wars. I think I remember, I think it was Roxanne Gay tweeted like, I'm going to buy a hundred tickets to this movie because just to support it because it's being attacked. And it creates a situation where just supporting or not supporting a movie is seen as a kind of activism or a statement, which I just hate so much. Yeah, that's the, yeah, so like, yeah, getting it, I remember, I remember all this happening. And I remember being like, again, like, bam, it's, it's, it's a. a movie. Like, it's a movie about catching ghosts with, like, ecoplasm. Like, y'all, like, we, what are we talking about? Like, and it, okay. Like, I'm just like, yeah, I'm like, I just want to see

it because I think they, I think they funny. Like, I think all four of those women are funny. You know what I'm saying? And Ghostbusters was funny because all four of those dudes were funny. That's the only reason, like, I'm, and I was a baby. And Bobby Brown was in, Ghostbusters too. So I wanted to Zee because Bobby Brown was in it. So I'm like, I don't understand this, when the last time you talked about Ghostbusters before you heard that this was coming? Like you don't, well, you got paraphernalia. You got some, you got some like hidden room in here where you got where's the shit mean that much. You like, you don't even care that much, right? And it to me, it was like, what you're probably going to get to is like, and why y'all

singling out Leslie so much? Like, I bet you can guess why. You know exactly why. You know what I'm saying. And it's like, and even on top of that, I'm like, because, okay, not only do she, like, you know, she's a, you know, she's a part of the season their food club, you know what I'm saying, who actually wash their legs, you know what I'm saying? Like, not only is she a part of that, but at the same time, like, okay, I'm sorry she don't look like Carrie Washington. Right. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? So she don't look like Beyonce. Because I'm like, okay, she looked like Beyonce. Would this be a whole different situation? You feel me. And that to me was like even more infuriating as to like why y'all going after her.

Because it's like I already know why you're going after her. But now I now really know why you going after her. Yeah. You put that so well. And she we'll get to it later. But like she acknowledges this. Like I feel like when these attacks happened, because when you attack black women, you don't want to be the person who is talking about it, what is happening publicly or loudly or vocally, right? And so because that creates a situation where it's like, oh, well, maybe she was being aggressive. Like, maybe she, like, it's just so hard to talk about these things.

And so often, like, I think that as a society, we're more comfortable talking about racism against black folks. I think the conversation that can be, we're not super comfortable with it. But, like, I think that we're more comfortable with that than the conversation of, like, it's also because I'm a black woman who has dark skin. So I think it's not just racism, it's colorism as well.

And I think that that conversation is like harder to have and people are less willing to have that conversation openly. Absolutely. And just doesn't fit like traditional beauty standards. Exactly. Because like Lupita's dark. You know what I'm saying? She's gorgeous. You know what I mean?

So I'm like, okay, so there's a lot going on here that you're not willing to say. You feel me? Yeah. It's a lot of unsaid stuff happening that we're. really invested in just pretending is not happening while we can all see it and feel it happening. Absolutely. So on Breitbart,

Milo published a review of Ghostbusters and I don't think it's a surprise to anyone that it's clear that this review is not just interested in getting into the merits of the film. A couple of standout lines. He writes, The spattering of negative and lukewarm reviews that are now piling up is brave for the leftist

establishment media. These writers are risking being labeled as sexist bigots a fate worse for a liberal than running out of quinoa and hummus while your vegan boyfriend is staying over. I used to think he was a good writer 10 minutes ago. I mean, this review, even for him, a little phoned in, a little phoned in. Yeah, that's corny, bro. Yeah.

He goes on to say, but most of the press realizes that whatever shreds of credibility it has left would be utterly lost by giving this film an unqualifiedly positive review. He singles out Leslie Jones's character, Patty. He says, Patty is the worst of the lot. The actress is spectacularly unappealing. even relative to the rest of the odious cast. But it's her flight as a pancake black styling that ought to have irritated the social justice warriors.

I don't get offended by such things, but they should. And so all of the hate that is being directed at the film to all of the leads, it's so much worse for Leslie. And that is to be expected. The research is super clear that black women disproportionately are targeted for abuse online when compared to their white counterparts. And Leslie is really,

getting it. Like she's like the rest of the folks in the film are not getting it as vocally as she is. Yeah. And so Leslie Jones, you know, she is a Twitter super user. And so she, that part of that is like replying to tweets, engaging with tweets. Yeah. I remember seeing this unfold. She got like a few critical tweets about Ghostbusters that were pretty run of the mill. People saying like, oh, I didn't like this movie. I didn't think you were funny. There's a black woman who tells her, I thought that Sherry Shepherd or Lonnie Love would have been better at this movie than you were. So like not nice, but they're not, you know, it's just like to be expected. Yeah, it's public figure shit.

Yeah, you're going to get those. Yeah. Exactly. So like they're all within the scope of like what you would expect if you're a public figure who's put out a movie. And it's not like Leslie Jones is falling apart and wizarding at this criticism. She's engaging with it. She's replying. Like she's, it's fine.

And then Milo retweets Leslie complaining about people not liking the movie. He retweets it with, if at first you don't succeed because your work is terrible, play the victim. Everyone gets hate mail for fuck's sake. He follows it up with Ghostbusters is doing so badly that they've employed Leslie Jones to play the victim on Twitter. And this is all a real callback to his style of writing on Breitbart that he spent years beating the drum around this idea that it is men who are being oppressed by women and that women play the victim for attention or for clout. and when they do, the corrupt, biased media rewards them from it. And he's been spending all of his time, like, beating that drum and seating that as a narrative in his writing to these, like,

disaffected men that he's been courting. And talking about how this sort of goes against the idea of, quote, meritocracy that Milo has spent so long telling gamers that they value more than others. Oh, my God, dude. I hate this guy. So it gets worse. Yeah. Milo then retweets completely fake doctored tweets that appear to show Leslie saying racist and anti-Semitic things.

These are not her. Like, this is like just several fake tweets. Then she blocks him. When she blocks him, Milo tweets rejected by another black dude and shows the screenshot of the block screen. So at this point, the tenor of the criticism clearly changes. It goes from run of the mill. like I don't like this movie, to things like her website being hacked

and having pictures of her driver's license and passports published to her website. Yeah. Exhiblicit personal photos of her that were stolen posted to her website, which by the way is a sex crime. Yes. And then pictures of her on her website being,

like her head being replaced with the gorilla harambe. Yeah. And so this is not criticism. Now you've gone too far. Yeah. It's way too far. So she tweets,

I have been. called apes, sent pictures of asses, even got a picture with semen on my face. I'm trying to figure out what human means. I'm out. I feel like I'm in a personal hell. I didn't do anything to deserve this. It's just too much. It shouldn't be like this. So hurt right now. And so it's clear that when this was just run-of-the-mill movie criticism, Leslie probably didn't like it, but she was engaging with it. And then Milo completely changed the tenor of those interactions by introducing these inflammatory racist fake tweets and racializing the conversation. Yeah. See, See, this is the part that, like, that's why maybe in the beginning I may have spoke out of turn because I didn't know the rest of this.

I just saw her cracking jokes with people. You know what I'm saying? And I was like, oh, she's funny, dude. She got it. Like, I don't remember the rest of all this. I didn't realize all this other stuff happened. Dang. Okay.

So in the beginning when it was just, you know, I think Lonnie Love would be fun. Like, she was, like, clapping back. Yeah. It seemed like it was all in good fun. But the way that Milo entered the conversation and changed the tenor and, like, turned the temperature up and made it so racialized, all of that, like, back and forth that she was engaging in took a very different turn. And this is all outlined in a piece that Milo wrote on Breitbart where he essentially blames Leslie for her own harassment because she responded to it. And he frames what is happening as regular people not being able to criticize the elites. He writes, in the words of a man who thoroughly triggered Leslie Jones,

to express different opinions from the elite is the real sin in this story. But when you look back at his tweets, he's not expressing a different opinion than Leslie Jones. He's not, like, criticizing her skills as an actor. He's calling her a man and spreading doctored tweets that one of which purports to show her calling the executives at Sony, the company that she had just made a movie for, a slur for Jewish people. Like, that's not a difference of opinion.

And that's a very different thing. And, you know, what's funny is that even per Milo's own rundown of the situation, he himself points out that Leslie was just fine when the conversation was just legitimately criticism. When the tenor of the conversation changed, she obviously, like, that was a different situation. And so for all of his, you know, going on and on about free speech, it was Milo who came in and stifled the legitimate criticism of the film. Leslie Jones had to pull down her website after it was hacked. She stopped tweeting after being harassed.

And, you know, the actual critique that she had been engaging in was silenced because of it. So if anybody was, like, stifling this speech, it was Milo. Here is Leslie talking about it to Laverne Cox. What a blessing to have it come later in life. Because I think about me, when I think I wasn't ready, because I thought, you know, when I moved to New York in 1993, that in a few years I would be. be a super star. Oh, yeah. And what I understand about not having been ready is not even just doing the work of being an actor, but the fame part, just dealing with the fame. And for you, when

Ghostbusters happened and the trolling and... People have to really know how specific that sh** is. Yeah. None of the other girls got trolled like I did. And I hate to say it like this, but it is because I was a black woman. And I hate to say that. I think it's also that you're a dark-skinned black woman. Yeah, I really hate to say that because it's like, it's the truth, though. It's like, I wanted to be like, I don't want this to be about that, but it was. Yeah. And it was a shame. And the reason I say it all the time is because I think people need to hear this shit. I was getting videos of white people spitting on my picture, hanging me, hanging my doll.

They're going to kill me. They're going to find out where my family, they're going to kill me and my family. They were spitting. They would send my pictures where they jacked off on it. Like, it was just horrible shit. Horrible shit for a movie. And the reason that...

Because you had the audacity to get cast in a movie. That I got cast. I'm so sorry. So my important thing was, like, everybody was like, well, you know, ignore it. No, fuck that. I'm not going to ignore. Accountability is what needs to be set in this society right now.

Y'all can't just do shit to people and think you could just get away with it. Because you wouldn't say that shit in my face. You would not say that shit in my face. And I know you wouldn't because your fucking profile don't even have your picture on it. Has a cartoon. So you're a fucking coward and I'm going to call you out. So I would take screenshots of everything that was sent to me. And I would post it.

And I'd be like, yeah, this is the type of shit that's coming to me. this is the type of community that y'all f***ing. Like, what's wrong with y'all? That's why I ride for her. That's exactly it. She's like, nah, homie, you a coward. Like, I'm going to call you on it. Again, I saw it like, you mess with the wrong one.

That's what I thought about her. I'm like, no, you mess with the wrong one. She ain't going to let y'all, like, do her like this. Yeah. And listening to her talk about it, I'm, on the one hand, she should not have to go through that. At all. At all.

But on the other hand, I'm happy that she, like, the advice of like just ignore it, don't pay attention to them. I'm glad that she did not take that advice because there has to be accountability. There has to be accountability. And so one of the questions that people ask a lot in this conversation was, did Milo actually lead the charge of harassment against Jones? And this is a little bit of a tricky situation because it's another hallmark of online harassment where users that have these big platforms, they don't come right out and say, attack this person, because that would clearly violate Twitter's rules against coordinated harassment. So it's very like wink, wink, nudge. Trump was also very good at this.

You know, Milo writes a scathing review about Ghostbusters where he singles out Leslie Jones specifically. He introduces racist, inflammatory attacks on her. He quote tweets her to his followers and says, this person is playing the victim for clout. And then he demonstrates that she blocked him so that he cannot continue harassing her. And he says this to his millions of followers who he has whipped up into a frenzy. I would argue knowing that they will understand what they are being called to do. Of course. But it's so savvy because when people point out his role in this, he's able to be like, oh, they're lying about me.

It's just another piece of evidence of this biased media. And I believe people like Milo, they know exactly what they are doing. They are purposely amassing a following of a grieved sycophants that they have inflamed and then they point them at a specific target, step back, let them attack this person, and then they say, I had nothing to do with it. Prove I had it. Where's the tweet or I told them to do this? I had nothing to do with it.

God, dog. Yeah. That's the worst type, man. Where you could be like, what are you talking about? What did I do? Okay, what did I do? You're like, bro. Yeah, that kind of goes back to what we was talking about before we started filming about, oh, boy.

Yeah. And also, I mean, it's just cowardly. Yeah. Like, it's like a, like a, I would have respected so much more of, like, if you're going to be about it, be about it. Don't be about it. And then when you're called out, I'd be like, I just know such thing. You know, it's so cowardly. She's exactly right that it's so cowardly.

Yeah. And she was like, y'all even got photos on your profile. I was like, yeah, she, yes, that's, during that season, yeah, when you just had the little black and white circle shadow, that was definitely this situation when like, man, you didn't even got, you ain't even got an avie, bro. Like, I'm good. So eventually, Leslie Jones takes a pause from Twitter. She says, I leave Twitter tonight with tears and a very sad heart. All of this because I did a movie. You can hate the movie, but the shit I got today is wrong.

And eventually Jack Dorsey, who then was the CEO of Twitter, personally got involved. He met with Leslie about the harassment, and Twitter permanently banned Milo from the platform as a result. In a statement, Twitter said, people should be able to express diverse opinions and beliefs on Twitter, but no one deserves to be subjected to targeted abuse online. and our rules prohibit inciting or engaging in targeted harassment or abuse of others. This actually ended up kick-starting a wave of Twitter sort of cracking down on, like, white supremacist alt-right Twitter users in November of 2016. They suspend Richard Spencer and other white supremacist figures,

and they roll out a series of actions to curb hate speech and abuse on the platform. Here's Leslie talking about the aftermath of how this all ended up. What's scary about the whole thing is that the insults didn't. hurt me. Unfortunately, I'm used to the insults. That's unfortunate. But what scared me was the injustice of a gang of people jumping against you for such a sick cause. Yeah. I mean, it was like, like, I mean, they, just like everybody has an opinion and it all comes at you at one time. And they're state, they really believe in what they believe in. Yeah. And it's so mean. Like, it's so gross and mean and unnecessary.

So it was just like one of those things of like, okay, so if I hadn't said anything, nobody would ever knew about this. And it was one of those things of like, hey, you know, when I approached Facebook, they was on it. Twitter, I was on them. I was like, yo, okay, it's like, that's my favorite restaurant. I love the food there.

Three people just got shot in front of me. Y'all need to get some security. Well, you know, there's a lot of really smart people at that company, and they really need to try to start sorting out, not just how to protect people like you, but the people that don't have this public forum, because I think it happens to so many people. So it's definitely a good thing that Milo was kicked off the platform.

But here's the thing. Leslie Jones is a wealthy celebrity. She was also like a Twitter super user. So it's not surprising that Jack Dorsey would step in and personally meet with her about these experiences. But what about all the black women and girls who are not celebrities, right? Who have not personally been involved in, like, high engagement for the platform, who don't have the money to hire a digital security person to take down intimate photos if they're posted.

I think that because people who are marginalized are the ones who are often targeted on social media platforms, they shouldn't have to be, like, rich or famous or well-connected to show up on these platforms. all different kinds of people who are attacked and harassed on social media platforms, black folks, trans folks, queer folks, sex workers, activists, doctors who perform abortions. These are the people who are being attacked and they deserve safety on these platforms, even if they are not celebrities. And that really brings us to today. You know, Elon Musk is already publicly signaling that these are the kinds of people

responsible for these kinds of attacks. He wants to bring back to the platforms. Last month, Jordan Peterson, which if you don't know who that is, Listen to Behind the Bastards. Yeah, good for you, but listen to Behind the Bastards. He was kicked off of Twitter for intentionally misgendering the actor Elliot Page, which is against Twitter's terms of service. His daughter tweeted last month to Elon Musk, will you bring my dad back to the platform? Elon Musk replied, anyone suspended for minor and dubious reasons will be freed from Twitter jail.

And so think about all the people that represents, Milo, Peterson, folks like Gavin McKinnis, who was the founder of the proud boys, Alex Jones, Marjorie Taylor Green. all of these people who were kicked off the platform, Musk is signaling that he might reinstate them. He very well might reinstate Donald Trump in a text exchange between him and Twitter's former CEO, Musk says, oh, it will be great to unwind permanent bans except for spam accounts and those that advocate for violence. And at a conference, Musk said that he thought

that banning Donald Trump was a mistake. Yeah, but it's so, like, it's so stupid, like out of his own mouth, except for bots and, like, people that stope violence. I'm like literally everybody that they banned were stoking violence. Like, what is you talking about? Like, I don't understand. And that's what I mean by like, again earlier, oh, I could jump off this roof. It's like, okay, go ahead and do it.

Now you see why none of us are jumping off this roof? Now you see why what happened, why we all climbed down the second time? Because we realize when you up there, oh, it's not what you thought it was. So you're going to have to walk all this shit back. Everything you're saying you're going to do. And it's funny to watch that happen in real time. You know what I'm saying? like you got to walk all this shit back.

So like, and fam, we try to tell you like, nah, bro, you don't want this smoke, dog. You don't have to do it. You don't have to do it. Okay, go ahead then. You know? Yeah. Jump off the roof.

Jump off then. It's such a good analogy. And I think we're seeing Elon Musk grapple with exactly those questions. You know, he called himself a free speech absolutist. And it's coming to see what pretty much every person who has ever run any social media platform has seen is that it's really fucking hard and it's involved and you have to like consider a lot of stuff and you can't just do it on a whim and so it's interesting to watch him realize this in real time. Free speed astolutus. We'll accept for and then also and then maybe

if y'all was doing it. But then if we want advertisers then yeah it's going to be space so you can't really say and then so yeah but I'm an absolutist though. Okay fam. Exactly. And so here's where we are now. You know, the question really becomes, what are you going to allow on these platforms? Who is served when extremists are welcomed onto platforms that are allowed to harass and attack people who are just minding their business

like Milo and his supporters did? And, you know, I think for a lot of these people in prop, I think that you really clocked this, it's a grift. It is an engagement strategy. It is, I am going to harass people on Twitter, get lots of engagement, and that is going to be lucrative for me.

And I don't think that platform should be incentivizing that kind of a dangerous grift. Yeah. Yeah. I have to end by saying you might be wondering, well, where is Milo now? Well, after being kicked off of Twitter, that was only one part of his downfall.

It was not the Leslie Jones harassment campaign that killed off his career. He kind of maintained golden boy status within the right until 2017, where he was slated to speak at CPAC and that a video surfaced of him, I guess, like kind of endorsing pedophilia. this was a bridge too far for the right.

He was booted from the CPAC lineup. He lost a lucrative book deal. He resigned from Breitbart. And today, he's broke. He doesn't have anywhere near the platform he used to have. And go to riddance. Listen, when I, look, when you send us this script and I scrolled down to the bottom and it said, today, Milo is broke.

I was like, this is the greatest. This is the dopest last bullet point I ever seen a month. Because it rarely happens. It never happens. Yeah, it rarely happens. somebody finally like finally hits their downfall and you're like, all of my good home training says, I shouldn't revel in your loss. However, you know what I'm saying? Revelling this loss. This one like, nah, homie, you earn that. You know what I'm saying? That's

that you earn that, brother. You know what I'm saying? That's your shit sandwich that you put together yourself. So enjoy your shit sandwich, my love. Enjoy it, bro. So, pop, thank you for being here today. It was a pleasure getting into this infuriating but enlightening conversation. Tell us about hood politics. And do you know anywhere where I can get a good cup of coffee? Ooh, I know a bunch of coffee. So, hood politics with prop, also on Cool Zone Media. It's essentially like, it's kind of evolved. I kind of like the way it's evolved. It started off as just like, oh, like there's these weird headlines, hot takes, like what are these people talking about? How do I make sense to this and just really wanting to help people tap into like their street knowledge to understand

that that's just as legitimate as their book knowledge. You know what I'm saying? So just really helping you understand just the political landscape. But it's really evolved into like more than just politics. It's like sociology, cultural studies, history, economics, just essentially like I just want people to understand that, you know, you're smarter than you think you are. And these people are not smarter than you. You know what I'm saying? So you had a very relevant tweet that you posted in the last week where you talked about how people voted for things that they thought they, that they didn't think they were voting for because they, they purposely try to confuse us.

Yeah. So that's, yeah, like that is that type of, like, I'm trying to give y'all game where it's like, you know, whether the tweet was like, hey, you know, a lot of y'all voted yes on stuff that you meant no and voted no on stuff that you thought meant yes. And it's because they worded it wrong. So what I want to do with come in with her politics is be like, hey, honey, you're trying to hustle you. That mean yes.

You know, and just being like, hey, think about it like, you know, when somebody was like, hey, you don't want dinner tonight? Fools being like, no. Wait, yes, I do want dinner. Wait, no, I do want dinner. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like, look, they're not smarter than you. It's a hustle.

You just got to like pay attention to the hustle. So yeah, I have politics with prop. Also, I do have my own cold brew. It's called Terraform Cold Brew. You go to terraform coldbrew.com. It's can. It's self-stable. You ain't got to keep it in a fridge,

although it takes better if you keep it in a fridge. But yeah, terraformcoldbrew.com. Gets you get you some of that good. And your book. And the book is also called Terraform, collection of poetry and short story. With the holidays coming up, I can't think of a better gift.

You need to get this book. Than Terraform coffee and Terraform book. That's going to pair so nicely. It's a good pairing. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks for being here. I appreciate it.

This was dope. Internet hate machine is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, check out our website, coolzonemedia.com, or find us on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends.

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