There Are No Girls on the Internet - LulaRoe used social media to prey on vulnerable women

Episode Date: September 28, 2021

Amazon Prime just dropped a new documentary series called LulaRich that chronicles the rise and fall of LulaRoe, the multi level marketing scheme that sold “buttery soft leggings” and dreams of entrepreneurship to thousands of women. Former LulaRoe retailer turned anti-MLM advocate, Roberta Blevins’ story is heavily featured in the film. She joins to give us the LulaRoe dirt the film left out.Life After MLM podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/life-after-mlm/id1553784236 Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm Bridget Todd. And this is there are no girls on the internet. So this month, Amazon Prime dropped a highly anticipated documentary series called Lula Rich. Breaking down Lulow, the multi-level marketing company that sold buttery soft leggings and dreams of girl boss entrepreneurship to thousands of women all over the country. Now, I don't think I need to tell you that this turned out to be kind of a huge scam. The Washington State Attorney General filed a class action lawsuit against Lulero, calling them a pyramid scheme. And in February of this year, Lul Lulero agreed to pay 4.6.

$74 million to settle. And it kind of also seems like a cult. From gas-lighty motivational seminars to Lula-Roe's founder, Dian, pressuring women to travel to Mexico for weight loss surgery to maintain a picture-perfect presence, all in the service of selling the lie that Lula Rowe was a ticket to working moms being able to live happy, fulfilled, and balanced lives. Now, what's so interesting about Lula Rowe is the women that got involved in it. And it's clear the company preys on a type, educated, ambitious moms, and it's pretty clear why. There just isn't a lot of societal support for moms who want to do wage-running work. In America, we don't have paid leave.

We don't have access to affordable child care solutions for parents who work. That creates this real vulnerability for women that can be deeply exploited. Now, if you've seen the documentary, which I definitely recommend you check out, then you probably already know Roberta Blevins. The hilariously straightforward former Lula Rowe retailer turned anti-MLM Advocate. Roberta once had 75 Lulow retailers working under her, And when she left the company, her goal was to get at least 75 people to leave. And now, on her podcast, Life After MLM, Roberta helps so many more see the ways that multi-level

marketing companies like Lula Rowe use tools like social media to prey on women who are already vulnerable. So I binge watched the Lula Rowe documentary on Amazon Prime. I watched it. It seemed like it went by in like 20 minutes, even though it was four episodes. my first question is the reaction has been so huge. You know, I was reading the piece and variety that quotes you. What is your response to seeing this huge reaction to the film, Lula Rich? Well, okay, so I was on the phone with Lechay last night,

and we were talking about this exact thing. And she's like, girl, I knew it would be number one eventually. And I said, right, but I just didn't know it would happen so fast. So that's sort of how I feel about it. Like this has been the last four years of my life. They don't really go into it in the documentary. But from the day I left Lula Ro, I started speaking out against them. I started exposing them.

I've been probably public enemy number one for the past four years. I did the vice documentary. I've talked to Bloomberg. I've helped with a lot of the, you know, sources say I'm a lot of those sources. I have a lot of sources. I've shared a lot of things. I've done a lot of stuff. So for me, like, I sort of.

kind of like expected it on in my small realm because I have been talking about this and I have been like promoting it in like the anti-MLM communities and like that small niche. Um, but like, like I said, like I didn't expect it to sort of seep out of our community quite so quickly. Um, and I'm just, I'm really excited because I just think people need to hear the story. And it's, this is just literally like the tip of the iceberg and just a little bit of a scratch. Like, there's so much more stuff. There was so much more stuff in this than there was advice, and there's so much more stuff that hasn't been uncovered yet

that I'm just really excited to see what other creators and people discover and create from this moment forward. Totally. So what are some of the things that you're thinking, like, oh, if they were to do a part two, like, and they got to mention this, I wish they mentioned that. Like, for instance, I was watching this really dark YouTube video that went into detail about the weight loss surgeries that Deanne was like prompting folks to,

And I was like, wow, they didn't really get into like how seedy and dark that is. Like, what are some of the stuff that you're like, oh, they do a part two, they got to include this? You know, that was one of the things. Like, there was not a lot of stuff about the weight loss surgery. I think it was like glazed over, which I get, you know, there's a lot there. DM has taken a lot of people down there on their website on Facebook, their Facebook page of this place.

There are so many before and after photos of women in Lulow Road. Like, it's very obvious where they're coming from. there's, sometimes there's Luloro business signs are like in the photos too and they're wearing the clothes and so it's very obvious. And Deanne has admitted to taking children as young as 13 down there to get weight loss surgery as well.

Yeah, so that's a lot of stuff that like just was not included, but I understand like, I don't know, this thing literally could have been 10 episodes. I'm not even joking. It could have been 10 episodes and I still probably would be sitting here going and they forgot to add this too. There was one of the,

the things that bothered me, and I was already out when this happened, but there was a lot of times, and we see it with influencers too. A lot of times when you have a lot of power and a lot of influence in a company or on a platform, you can get away with murder, not technically, like actually murder, but you can get away with a lot of things. And that was happening a lot and running rampant in Lulow. And we thought that that wasn't really fair. People were being terminated for like using the wrong fonts and the wrong colors. And then somebody could go on alive and basically mock someone. with special needs and Lula Rowe would side with them and say, well, they use Lulero as the way

they feed their family and they said they were sorry. So we're not going to terminate them. There was somebody who was like telling a deaf person they should just turn it up if she can't hear them and just really just obnoxious, obnoxious stuff that made me wonder like, do you know people can see you? Like, you know this is like live and public. Like, people can see you do this. Why are you doing this? And again, Lula Rowe would always side with them. There was a huge thing with the National Down Syndrome Society,

where the National Down Syndrome Society said, you either terminate this couple that mocked special needs or we'll terminate our partnership. We'll terminate our partnership with you. And Lula Rowe said, like I said, well, he already apologized and he made them so much money. They sold hundreds of thousands. of dollars for the stuff. They made them so much money and Lula R sided with them and the National

Down syndrome society put out a statement saying that they were ending their partnership with Lulow it's all on like you can find all of this online. They were ending their partnership with Lulro because they didn't feel that Lulorow was really willing to accept that this was bad and that they were going to they were going to side with somebody that had done bad things and it was against everything that they were going because the person that he mocked had Down syndrome and or he was mocking special needs and then he used someone with Down syndrome as a prop in his apology. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. It's great. So, I know. It's just like, so Lulero sided with, or Luloros sided with this couple and the National Downs Society said,

we're going to end our partnership in this beautiful statement. And then about an hour later, Lulero came out with their statement, which was pretty much the exact opposite. And they said that the reason that Lula Rho had decided to end the partnership with the National Down Syndrome Society. Oh, interesting. Right. Was that Lulero felt that the National Down Syndrome Society's mission was too narrow because they only wanted to help people with Down syndrome and Lulero wanted to help everyone. And I feel like that's the first like example of like an all lives matter kind of thing.

Right. And I was like, oh my God, like they were the first ones. I mean, that story really does crystallize how good they are at twisting the truth to make themselves look like they're the more like noble or like the people who were like doing right. Like in that documentary, I was like they must have taken hours of like PR coaching to the way they twist words and twist stories or it's like, oh, actually I just wanted to cut these people in because it was such a good deal. like blah, blah, blah, like how they're able to twist everything so that they're so virtuous. I really, I don't have to give them props for that. It is so amazing. I mean, I will say I was sitting there watching the documentary, obviously.

I was watching it. And there was, I mean, I lived it, so there was really nothing shocking to me. The only shocking thing that I really experienced were hearing the deposition. So I had read the depositions. I was a part of that lawsuit. They also, they don't bring that up either. but I was a witness against Lillow in the Washington Pyramid Skiy lawsuit. And I helped with the investigation with the team.

Incredible team. Bob and his team are fantastic. Really, really one of the coolest experiences. And it was the very first time that their anti-Piramids skiing law had ever been tried. And it was with Leroux. And it was like a history-making case. And they'd had it on the books for like 10 plus years. And it was the first time that it had ever been tried.

So it was really, really cool. I'm really proud of that. And, you know, they settled in February for four, $1.75 million. The 0.75 went to pay for the three-year investigation. So Washington took a hit on that. They all basically just did it at cost. And then the $4 million went into a restitution fund. And checks went out, I think, in August. So everybody should have their checks right now. The most shocking thing to me in this documentary, because I had read the depositions, because I had, you know, I know what they had said, but I had never heard the tone in which it was

said. And so I knew that Deanne was like, oh, she really got. too likes, that's sad. But I thought she was saying, I thought she was saying it in like a, oh, that's like, hearing it, I was like, ooh. And then hearing other, the way that she said others, it was just so cold. And knowing her and being around her and having conversations with her, like, I never met that person. I saw the person, like, the person on the videos, but I never saw like calculated cold. And so that to me, just the way that Deanne answered questions was literally the most shocking thing for me.

Yeah, it was almost hard to watch. Also, the level to which she really is like, oh, I don't recall. I don't know. Like, I don't know what that means. It's like, wow, for somebody who was running this, like, business, you really don't know any of the specifics. What went on?

Hmm, interesting. Now, one thing that really shocked me about Lula Rich were the scenes of Lula Rose founders being deposed in court. Basically, they really use the old, I don't recall, trick to avoid incriminating themselves. And it turns out, selective amnesia to avoid accountability is a big part of the brand. That even includes their founders kind of pretending to not know Jordan Brady, their own family member and a Lula Rho higher up, who was caught on camera saying the company was trying to distance itself from being a pyramid scheme.

Yeah. One of the things that we had to prove, this is so ridiculous, but one of the things that we were tasked to prove in the pyramid scheme lawsuit was that Jordan Brady actually worked at Lula Rowe because he had said, you know, you see that he had said that we need to get away from being a pyramid scheme. And so they wanted to distance themselves from him as much as possible. He is like Deanne's youngest biological son. And they were like, who's Jordan? And he was who again? Wow. I'm sorry, did he work here? I don't recall. And so some of the evidence that I sent over were like emails between Jordan and I about me getting onboarded and having questions about things.

And I was like, and then a screenshot of him and I with my old upline doing a webinar, like an official Lula Roe, Lula Famous webinar. And he and I are in that photo. And I said, is this that Jordan we're saying doesn't work here? Wow. So yeah, you know, is everybody else's fault with Lula Roe. Always. You know, I have to ask, like I made one podcast about Lulow and

MLMs years ago. And I've covered so many different things. Like, I've covered Nazis. I'm like some of the worst people on the internet. But the time that I talked negatively about Lula Rowe, I don't think I've ever gotten more hate correspondence, more emails. And I know that you, you know, people come after you as well. Like, do you ever get scared or like, what is it like to really be trying to hold folks

accountable and just tell the truth of what you've experienced and what you saw? and know that there's going to be an army of people who are very, very invested in proving you wrong. Like, what is that like? I mean, I have the receipts, so I'm not super worried, you know? It's really funny. I've seen so many things said about me that are so unbelievably not even close to being true. I was accused of running a hate-fueled hate cult. That was fun.

I know. I was like, okay. All right. That's me. I hate cult. Yeah, I hate cult. I was like, I hate cult. someone on my TikTok went after me the other night

saying that I was a liar and then I'm still a hun and then I'm still scaring people and that I'm just mad she said she's just mad that someone exposed this scam and her $60,000 checks dried up and I said one I've never had a $60,000 check and two I was the one that left and exposed it like that that was me the one. The one you're saying expose it, that's me. How can it be the same person? So it's just like ridiculous things. People don't want to listen to the truth.

She was telling my timeline was all over the place. I'm like, okay. She's like, I'm super anti-MLM and your timeline is super sus. And my followers were like, you're clearly not anti-Mil. This woman has been speaking out for four years. She has another movie. There's no way you don't know who she is if you're actually super anti-MLM like you claim. It was a brand new account.

One person following, like no pictures, no. anything. I mean, it's a hunt. It's a hunt. It's a hun getting on TikTok on my account, hoping to convince new people that don't know me, don't follow me, don't know my story, don't know my history, that I'm suspicious. Right. And that what I say in the documentary is most likely lies and that people should investigate me. And I was like, all you have to do is Google my name. Like literally everything is there. Literally. I don't, I don't hide any of the stuff that I've uncovered. And I don't just uncover Lula Roe. I uncover MLMs. Like, and so it's funny to me, I get all kinds of hate from like other MLMs. I'm talking about

black oxygen organics. I got a hate email the other day that said, we're coming for you. You should have never spoke about boo. And I was like, all right, bring it. It's just weird stuff. You know, like they went to all of the review sites, Amazon, Rotten Tomatoes and IMDP. And they all mass reported and like mass downvoted and and gave them one star, views and just said like how ridiculous it is. And I mean, it's not normal. Like, it's not. You know, you watch going clear or you watch Scientology like aftermath or you listen to a little bit culty and you listen to you listen to these podcasts and these cult shows.

There is no other industry or experience that you will experience this sort of hatred, fair gaming, like bullying and attacking except for cults. Right. It feels like you have to know when someone is responding that way that they're still in. And the fact that you are telling the truth about what they have committed their lives to probably is like very threatening to them and their whole sense of self. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I get it. I was there.

I'm sure if you go back five, six years, you can find posts on Lul Row. I mean, I'm blocked from it now, so I would never be able to see. But of me saying Lillow changed my life. It's the most amazing company. and these people are just better haters. Like, I'm sure there's at least one of those somewhere. You know, but I was in a cult and I was brainwashed like the best of us. And, you know, when you see it, you can't unsee it.

Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's, Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Wilfridell from PodMeets World. And now the PodMeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered dancing with the stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of success. survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show.

I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Like what was just because we? Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion of the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay

to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of ha, hoo. Ha ha, ha, who. Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to Podmeets Tworrell on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back.

I've noticed on Instagram and TikTok, since the documentary coming out, so many other women, you know, looking back at their pictures in being like, I can't believe the things I used to say. Like, it feels like it must be incredibly cathartic for these women to speak up about their experiences and just get it off their chest of like all the things they did to try to make this scammy cult work. for them. Absolutely. So I always say on my podcast, I have a Survivor's podcast called Life After MLM and I talk to survivors from all different MLMs, not just Lulro. There are a lot of Lulro stories on there, obviously, but, you know, I have the Survivor's podcast. I talk to people from Amway. I talk to people from Mary Kay. I talk to people from everywhere, herbal life, everywhere, right? And nothing in these stories really changes except for like shocking details and the names. Pretty much it's the same. It's the same exact story of like being in an MLM being like what is going on figuring it out and like escaping

I guess people just like being like left financially devastated when I talk to these people on the podcast we have these conversations I don't want to call them interviews because they're very casual and we interrupt each other and we laugh and we make jokes and sometimes they're you know inappropriate for the time we're talking about serious things and we pop in with with something because if you don't laugh, you cry. And it's incredibly cathartic to talk to victims. And I get so many email messages from people that are like, I heard this episode, I was in Mary Kay,

thank you so much to Laura for speaking about it. I felt so connected to her. I felt so validated by her truth. She explains something that happened to me that no one has ever said, oh, that happens. And this random person that you talked to validated me. and I'm not crazy. Like there's proof that I'm not crazy.

I was gaslit in this company and they told me all these things. And I'm listening to you talk to these women. And sometimes people, I have men on there too. And sometimes people will say something and I'll stop them. And I'll say, well, that's a cult tactic that you just described. Like, it's not your fault. Like, that's a cult tactic, what you're talking about. And this is why that works and this is how it fits in the pyramid.

And this is why they will use it. And this is how it's all working together, like a bunch of cognitive machine. And I think a lot of people go, oh, my God. Oh, my God. And it clicks, right? And it doesn't click. And so I think what's happening right now, like you said, is there's all these people that watched Lula Rich.

They were like, oh, my God, I was a part of this company. It's a total garbage dump trash shape. Let's watch this movie. And they're thinking, popcorn time. And by third episode, they're in tears. And they're going, oh, my God, I can't believe I was a part of this. I didn't know it went so deep. I didn't realize I heard about this, but I heard it was a real.

where I thought this was happening, but I never had proven. Here's all the proof of everything you experienced, everything you were told, told by people who were successful, told by people who did see that there was a problem and did speak out. All of us that are in that documentary have been speaking out for a long time. I mean, not all of us. There's a couple of newbies in there I've never seen before, but the majority of the people in there have been speaking out

and helping investigate Lula Rove for a really long time. And so I love that there are complete strangers that I've never met, hearing this message, watching this film, finding the catharsis that they've never had, the validation that they never got when they were gaslit in this cult, finally years after are watching this film and going, holy shit, it's not me. And they are, they're, I call it Lula Cringe. I post it all the time, Lula Cringe. And you share your Lula Cringe, right?

And you're like, look at what I'm wearing. There's a photo of me. I'm like, look at me standing by this giant Lollipop. what the hell am I wedding? This was the worst of it, you guys. I left like a month later. What is going on? And so we think a lot of times,

and then it's really funny because former survivors and victims will come in and they'll make jokes, you know? And I go, I know that they know because they're making an inside joke that it's a dog whistle for us, right? Like they say something and I go, oh my God, you get it, girl. And we're laughing and we're having a good time and we're saying, I can't believe I did this. I'm so stupid. And I say, hey, you're not alone.

okay, you're not alone. There was 90,000 of us. I mean, I don't know how many there actually was. Those numbers have always been inflated and incorrect and I never knew the actual number ever, not even once. But, you know, if we say there were 90,000 of us, then there's, there's a lot more victims out there that probably still think it's them and are watching Lula Rich and going, oh my God, it wasn't me. So I love it. I love seeing everybody's lula cringe. I love seeing everybody's stories. I love jumping in the comments and saying, yes, I remember this thank you because it not only validates them it validates me too that have so many haters that are telling me that i'm just bitter i mean d'n literally did a live today and said not to walk

you know not to bother with lula roe or not to bother with lula rich because it's just the story of four consultants who couldn't make him work oh out of hundreds you know out of hundreds and thousands it's just four of us and i was like are you for real now it's just the four of us it's just four of us. Okay. They made a movie because there's just four of us. There was like a big lawsuit because it was just four people. Yeah, there's a billion dollar lawsuit because there's just four of us.

It's insane. I have four separate interviews on my podcast with four separate Lularo Consultants. So there's at least eight of us. I mean, that's something that I think the documentary really does a nice job of touching on is that when

women started going to the defector Facebook groups and sharing their story, and getting that validation that, like, that's the power of hearing that you're not alone, hearing that you're not crazy. Like, after you've been legit, no shit gaslit for so long, like, going back and watching some of those motivational speaker-style conferences, I was like, this is gas-witing.

Like, this is like brainwashing indoctrination. The power of hearing someone say, no, you're right. Even for little things of like, yeah, you're right, my leggings did smell like a dead fart. You're right. They did arrive wet. Like things like things that they have been told from, you know, the Lulow higher ups that are not happening, right? Like the power of that validation, someone saying, no, trust what you see with your own eyes, what you feel in your gut.

Like you're, you know, you're right. You know, you know your experience. Like that's so powerful. You know, I even got some validation today. I don't know if it was, I think it was on Instagram. Somebody commented on one of my posts on Instagram and said, I used to work at Lulro. the reason that your leggings smelled so bad is because when they were outside and those big metal crates are called gaylords.

Go out in these big metal gaylords out in the middle of this parking lot for months on in under blue tarps. They said, well, they had like a team because what would happen is rats and possums would sleep in them. And sometimes they'd get stuck and die. And so they'd have to go and fish out the dead rats and possums. And then they would throw away the garment that was touching it, but none of the existing garments around it.

He's like, so that might have been or she. don't remember it was the username. I didn't check. But that they were like, that might be why that your leggings smelled like dead rats. And I was like, oh my God, I've literally called them dead rat leggings before. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? There was literally dead rats in them like three years ago. I mean, listen, Roberta, you know a dead rat when you smell one. I do.

I live in the country, y'all. I know a dead rat when I smell one. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygill and Friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting.

Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-8-4-I-Hart. Hey, everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Will Ferdell from PodMeets World. And now the Pod Meets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So, yeah, now we're experts.

I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Yeah. Just because we...

Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion in the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of ha, ooh, ha, ha, ooh. Again, we are experts.

So make sure to tune in a Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to Pod Meets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live.

This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast, and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we're dedicating a series to understanding the mind when it struggles. I'm joined by doctors, researchers, and those with lived experience. We'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel about anxiety. I started living in my car,

and then my car got stolen. I was shoplifting, I was having panic attacks, I was agoraphobic. And making it through hardship. To be present is a learned skill, and it's hard to be present. We'll talk with John Nelson about clinical depression and the brain implant that saved his life. What I learned is that procedure made me happy because I'm disease-free. And we'll talk with leading experts like Judd Brewer about anxiety, and John Hirschfield about obsessive-compulsive disorder.

and the science of how the brain can change. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course and what we can do about it. Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. There just is not a ton of societal support for moms in America.

And if someone comes along and tells a mom that she can make good money, making her own schedule and still be able to be a present figure in the lives of her family and kids, it's really not surprising that so many of them would jump on that opportunity, even if it seems too good to be true. The vulnerability baked into the experience of being a mom leaves women open to being preyed on by MLMs. I have my own thoughts about why smart, ambitious, educated women got involved with, and not just Lularo, but MLMs in general, I think that, you know, it's very enticing to be told that you can be there for your kids if you're a mom,

make good money, you know, really be a present figure in your parents and your kid's life. We just don't live in a place that really has a lot of options for a lot for like moms, if you're trying to work and raise your kids. And so I think that my sense is that these companies prey on women, and a lot of times moms who don't really have a lot of options. And I just wonder, like, what are your thoughts on why so many women get mixed up in MLMs? So I think the main component to getting lured in, like Robert's size, I love that quote in the movie. Robert is fantastic.

If you guys don't know who Robert Fitzpatrick is, by his book Ponziomics, it is amazing. If you are anti-MLM or want to be, it is the complete, like, history of MLM. It is one of the best books I've ever read, which is just fascinating. But the way that people get lured in, because that's what it is, right? Nobody really thinks like, this is amazing. Like, I need to do this. It's always like, girl, you would be so good at it. And you're just like, and it really is a lure.

It really is a lure. The number one thing is vulnerability. The number one thing. And the more vulnerabilities you have, the more likely you will get sucked in. You know, people have hardships and they think if I could just win the lotto, if I could just make an extra $100 a week. If I could just like get some money or like get like a really good deal or like something like it could change everything.

If I could just go on a game show and win $10,000, I could pay all my bills. I'd be back in the green and it wouldn't be a problem. And so there's this whole like if I could just do this, if I could just be that person to just beat all the odds, right? I'm going to beat all the odds. It's going to be me. I believe in myself. These boss babes believe in me too.

They're telling me how great I am. I know I'm great. I wasn't feeling how great I am, but now I'm really feeling how great because these women are reinforcing what a rock star I'm going to be. And I already believe I'm a rock star. And now someone I don't even know sees it in me,

oh my God, it must be true. So you're already vulnerable. And what they're promising you ultimately, because you hear it all the time. It's not about the product. It's about the opportunity. It's not about the shampoo. It's about the sisterhood.

It's not about the weight loss. It's about the accountability. it's not about the product, it's about the opportunity, right? It just, it, it doesn't matter because what they're truly selling you is a dream. They're selling you on the opportunity to possibly maybe, if you're lucky enough, have the ability to possibly get to the top of the pyramid and all of your dreams will come true. So dream big. Keep that dopamine rushing through your veins because as long as you're continually like basically lying to yourself and living this fake it to your make it lifestyle where the dopamine

is just coming in. You're like, it feels so good. I'm just going to keep doing this because it seems to be working. It's a dream. It doesn't exist. Robert says it if you were to invite five friends and tell them to invite five friends after 13 levels, you exceed the population of Earth. It's not possible. 99.7% of people across the board lose an MLM. So what are we actually selling here? It's a farce. It's a dream. It's the possibility that you might maybe one day

get the ability to kind of awesome, like maybe, maybe make it if you work really hard. But if you don't work really hard, that's on you. If you don't make it, it's because you just work cut out for this. And I can't help, but I know they touch on this in the film, I can't help but see the ways that like our sort of social media landscape really feeds that. Like you mentioned in the film that they wanted you to take pictures of yourself making a big messy breakfast with your kids.

Or like, you know, they wanted people to have these very curated picture perfect Instagram feeds and hashtag everything because Lula Rowe. You know, I wonder what role do you think that things like Instagram and Facebook and Facebook Live? Like what role do you think that played in making Lula Rowe sort of like what it was? It was instrumental. It was absolutely instrumental. Before Lula Roe, I had been a professional blogger. And I had a decent little following. It's all defunct now, but I had a decent little following. And so I understood algorithms. I understood how to grow on social media authentically. I knew how to brand myself. And when they heard that I knew how to do that stuff, they're like, oh my God, you have to teach a class. Like, you're a social media, a queen. Like, you're so amazing.

Like, you have to teach all of us how to do that. And so it was a lot of, like me trying to, it's, it's, I don't even know if you can teach it to be perfectly honest. Some of it is just like, just inherent. I would say, you have to have pretty pictures. And then someone's like, could you look at my feet and tell me what you think? And I'm just like, what? Did you not even listen to what I said? Um, so, you know, I really didn't like as I was teaching people how to grow authentically, uh, and to create, you know, authentic curated posts about your life. Nothing over the top and ridiculous, but real. Um, like a normal social media. influence overdo.

It was like, well, you should be talking more about Lularo and like, oh, you went to Disneyland. Did you put because of Lulau? I'm like, well, I mean, is it because of Lulor? Well, you got to go because you're not working because of Lulro. And you had money to buy churros because of Lulro. And I was like, but isn't it? I mean, we hear in the documentary that because of Lulorow isn't actually even a hashtag

at all. And D.N. doesn't even know it. She doesn't even know what it means. She's never seen it before. Right. She's never seen it before. I will tell you, though, there's another hashtag they didn't mention that Dian will probably also deny knowing about. And that's the hashtag because of Dian.

Ooh, I'm sure she loved that one. Yeah. But has never seen it. Right. Anytime Dian had a bad day and, like, social media people were being mean to her. We had to make posts of appreciation for Dian and tag it because of Dian. Wow. I mean, that's a cult.

That's a cult. Absolutely. It's a cult. Yeah. I mean, I figured out I was on a cult because I was watching. Leo Romani's Scientology Aftermath, and I'm sitting there, and I burst into tears. And my husband at the time, we are divorced, but it's not because of Lulau. He was like, are you okay?

And I was like, oh, my God, I just knew. I just knew. God, something was weird, but I just knew. I saw, like, the Scientology survivors and they were saying things. And I had an example for everything, like a Lulow example for everything. they were saying. I was like, that happened to me in this way. And it just, I was like, oh my God, I meant a cult. Me, so smart and educated, vulnerable. I joined a cult. It was so easy. It was the easiest thing I've ever done joining that cult, really. In terms of joining at

these, not maintaining, but joining. Right. I think it's exactly what you said, vulnerability, precarity, like, scarcity, like, that will drive otherwise. you know, like reasonable, rational, intelligent people to do things that like, one, like, you know, incrementally, they're like, wait a minute, like, what am I actually doing here? Like, how did I found myself so deep into this? And I think you're exactly right. But it's not, it's luring. It's luring them in, you know. First you think it's just a lifestyle. Take it to you make it. Yeah. You look at those posts on social media. You look at like actual influencers, right? And they post things. And I think there's this, this need and,

another reason why social media fueled this so much was you look at actual influencers and you go, they're just sharing like pictures of like Pepsi. They're making all this money. Like I can do that. And it's coming from someone that did it, it's way more than that. But, you know, it's tough. And people think they can buy this $99 kit in a box and become a social media influencer who sells shakes on social media. And they're using, you know, they're basically just free advertising for these MLMs and they're they're selling product that nobody really wants and, you know, a couple friends will help you out. But for the most part, the statistic for MLM sales is 90% of MLM stuff stays within the MLM. It's just MLM Hunts shopping from MLM Hans.

Like, oh, my God, I didn't get that next because it was sold out. Well, I got five. Did you want to buy one for me? Oh, my God. Well, full price. Well, of course. So you're buying in between. And it's sitting in your garage.

10%, 10% makes it outside the MLM. 10. Wow. 10%. That is nothing. 10%. 90 stays in. It's in people's garages. It's in people's, like, closets or their jewelry boxes. They just have to have it. Because the true customers are the consultants.

True customers are consultants in every single MLM. I'll get hate for that, too, but that's true. People go, you were just bitter. Like, you just were in the wrong MLM. I said, no, I wasn't. I've tried multiple in there all the same. I talk to victims and they're all the same. They're all the same. I challenge anybody that's listening to this,

the things they have an MLM that is not the same, to email me and let me know. And I will prove you wrong. It'll probably take me about five minutes. So make sure it's a good one. So I have to ask, so one of my last questions for you is, I know in the film that you said that your goal,

ultimately when you left Lula Rowe, was to get 75 people out because that's how many people you had in your downline. Yeah. And, you know, through your podcast, through your work building communities with people who are involved with MLMs and reducing stigma and getting folks to talk honestly about it, you'd probably helped like that number times 100. How does that feel for you that you once were someone who were recruiting people to be involved in this? And now you have kind of gotten so many people out of it and reduced that stigma for so many people.

Like, what does that like for you on a personal level? Oh, man, that's a good question. You know, it's true. I wanted to get out because I had, at my height, I had 75 women in. Only a few of them I knew. You know, I talked about that too, being stacked. So there was a lot of people. So I really, I mean, I feel responsible for all 75, but I feel deeply responsible for maybe about 20 of them, even more so.

And I just knew. And a lot of them left before me and they were like, Roberta. And I was like, it's weird, right? And they're like, it's super weird. And, you know, they also help me get out. And I appreciate them. And I love them for that as well because they helped me sort of see it when I couldn't see it. And I needed that outside perspective.

Because if you're in an MLM and you're only asking inside perspective, you will never get out of your MLM. You have to reach out of the organization. You will never find truth where it is being suppressed. And so I knew that getting out was like something I had to do. And I grappled with it. I grappled the struggle. I cried. I felt like the biggest piece of shit in the whole entire world.

But I had trusted the wrong people and had gotten people that I loved and trusted in it to it. And I first turned my shopping group into a goob mall. So Goob stands for going out of business. And we called, we called us, we called ourselves Goobers, which is that in the group, it says like Roberta's goobo. Goobin with Roberta and friends or something, I forget. And I turned it into a goob mall and I said, you guys can use my group and you can sell your stuff. And we helped a lot of people liquidate their inventory in the beginning because I didn't

really know how to help people. I wasn't so versed on MLM and I hadn't found my voice and I didn't really have a platform yet. I just knew that I was helping people out. And I helped a couple people out that way. And then, you know, when when the media came and they asked me to speak and my team and defective were like, yeah, Roberta, you do it because you talk to people better. I was like, okay, I'll be the face. All right, let's do this. And it was kind of reluctant, but also at the same time, I was like, whatever, let's do this. You know, someone has to be the one to talk to media. It'll be me. And ever since from like that first, the first thing I ever did, I started getting messages from people saying, I read this and you confirmed some things. And I joined

effective and I'm leaving. Or, you know, something you said about this remind me about my time in Meliluca. I looked into it and it's an MLM, right? I said, yeah. And they're like, I got to leave. And so all of a sudden, these people started coming to me and it wasn't just 75 women in Leroux anymore. It was like thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of people across MLM. Like, I get emails, messages.

My inboxes are so full, I can't even get through them. I mean, it's, it's incredible. People want to tell their story. People want to come on my podcast and tell their story. And, you know, I was given that platform. to tell my story when I did the vice documentary. And to me, it was the best therapy I could have ever gotten because I was given a platform to tell my story and have somebody say, you're not crazy.

It happened to me too. And so in February, I started my own podcast because I thought, hey, that's a great way to help even more people. And just started. I told my story. That was the first episode. I told my story. I think it has 20,000 downloads that first pilot episode.

It's so good. It's so good. And, you know, I just sort of sat there on Valentine's Day. It was my first Valentine's Day single in a long time. And I just sat there and told my story and uploaded it that same day. And I was like, well, I guess I just started a podcast. And so many people were like, oh, my God, thank God, you finally started this podcast. When can I be on it?

And the response has been overwhelming. I can't even keep up with it. I probably meet like a producer or a helper of some sort. But, you know, baby steps day by day. We'll see where it goes from here. But to me, like everything I've done. has helped more people each time I do it. And so I love that I've helped so many people.

It makes me feel like all of this was worth it. You know, like the butterfly effect of me saying, hmm, maybe I should join these buttery crotch pant company and like ruining, I didn't ruin my life. I don't want to use the term ruined my life. I don't think I'm ruined. I do know that there were people that were ruined. I could have been.

ruined but I wasn't and I think I've used my strength my dad who passed away in 2013 is a huge influence and like just a strong force he's with me all the time he's probably disappointed that I even joined lulorone the first place but he's really really proud of me that I'm fighting against them now and you know for me it's just he taught me to do what's right and when I see something to say something and that's something that we're doing now, you know? There are so many different social justice issues that there are, there's so many different social justice issues and so many different movements. And it is so incredible that the internet has given us a giant platform to be able to talk to people, be able to share our stories and

be able to corroborate experiences in any of these movements. And I'm just so happy that I get to be a part of this movement and I get to be a part of helping people learn that like MLMs are nasty and not worth it. And you know, I love to educate that on TikTok. We educate all day when I'm not banned on TikTok about why MLMs are bad. If you have questions, I will answer them. And we break it down. We break down the stigma and we we take this really giant, complicated, confusing topic and we break it down into much easier consumable things. And I was talking to my friend the other night because he's like, this anti-Amalin thing is so confusing.

I don't understand it. And I said, it's like math, right? You don't start with calculus on day one. So you learn the basic principles of why MLM is bad. And then you work your way up to the government collusion. We don't start there. There are so many people are like, why are these companies still legal?

And I said, the government protects them. They're like, what? I said, that's calculus. You're still in basic middle school algebra. So let's start there. And, you know, I know this is like all chicken walked everywhere. And I talk a lot. But that's why I have a podcast.

But yeah, you know, it's, I just feel like it's a big joggernaut. And it's like just getting bigger. And it's just rolling. And I've been talking with the producers because everybody is like, we need a second season and talking with them about, you know, what the future looks like. And we've been on the phone and in texts for the past couple days. So I can't really say anything yet, but there are definitely things moving forward and new projects being talked about because people are so enthusiastic.

So keep commenting, keep telling us that you want more episodes that you want more MLNs to be exposed, that you want more dirt and more big baddies to be taken down. and I will do my best to, you know, get it to the right people's hands. Hell yeah. We need a Going Clear style docu series starring Roberta, taking down MLMs. Like, where is the series if we need it now? I know. I want that.

Let's do that. That's amazing. I've got all kinds of contacts. Like, we could, we could make that. We could make that. It would be amazing. I love it. Roberta, where can folks keep up with you, your podcast,

your work. Okay, so you can find me on Instagram. I have two different Instagrams. I have the real Roberta Blevins where I do advocacy stuff and I'll share TikTok videos there when I'm banned. That's where you find me when TikTok's down. And then my podcast has an Instagram as well called Life After MLM Podcast. And then you can find me on TikTok at Bert-a-like Woe or Bertilike Woe 2.0 if I'm blocked. Currently, they're both blocked. So when you go to follow me, it will tell you that I do have community violations and they're going to ask if you're sure and you're just going to want to say yes I am. Only the best of us get those warnings. And then you can find me on Twitter, which I just started doing and that's Brita like

Whoa too. And then Facebook is Roberta Blevins. You can find me there. And I believe the podcast has a Facebook page too, but I'm very bad at updating things. I love it. Well, Roberta, I cannot tell you how grateful I am for you sharing your story in the film. You're probably my favorite part of the film. And honestly, as soon as I saw it, I was like, I have to talk to her.

She is amazing. Thank you so much for all your work, helping people, you know, talk about this and all your honesty and sharing your experiences. And just for who you are, like you really, I can listen to you talk all day. You really have a lightness and an energy to you that I think really bring. You bring so much of yourself to this. So thank you. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoati.com.

You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoity.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, write and review us on Apple Podcasts.

For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David. Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or where. you get your podcast. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.