There Are No Girls on the Internet - MoviePass was his idea. HBO documented the chaos, but now he’s taking it back.

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

In the 2010s, MoviePass became a cultural phenomenon, but behind the viral success was Stacy Spikes, a Black entrepreneur and visionary who co-founded the company. Then, he was pushed out. But today, he’s back in charge. Stacy joins Bridget to talk about the rise and fall of MoviePass, the power of culture and human creativity, what it was like to be sidelined from his creation, and the rare second chance to take back the company he built from the ground up. Stacy Spikes is an award-winning entrepreneur and inventor who USA Today named one of the 21 most influential Black professionals in technology. He is the co-founder and CEO of the viral phenomenon MoviePass, now the subject of the HBO documentary MoviePass, MovieCrash. He is also the founder of Urbanworld, the largest international festival dedicated to nurturing Women and Diverse filmmakers.    Stacy's critically acclaimed memoir: Black Founder, The Hidden Power of Being an Outsider On Reddit, read Stacy's forum: Ask Me Anything   If you’re listening on Spotify, you can leave a comment there or email us at [e-mail]   Follow Bridget and TANGOTI!    instagram.com/bridgetmarieindc/    tiktok.com/@bridgetmarieindc    youtube.com/@ThereAreNoGirlsOnTheInternet See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hi, everyone. I'm Cheryl Stray, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. So we, too, can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How often does a founder get to go buy their baby back and relaunch it? There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unlegged.

boss creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is there are no girls on the internet. The heyday of Movie Pass was truly one of those you had to be there moments in tech and culture. If you were swiping that iconic red movie pass card back then like I was, you probably found yourself wondering, how is this even sustainable? Turns out you weren't alone. That very question is at the heart of the HBO Max documentary, Movie Pass, Movie Crash, which just scored an Emmy nomination. In many ways, the story of movie pass is one of those classic tales of what we call insidification, right? When something good gets wrecked by private equity, relentless growth chasing, and short-term thinking. But it's also a story about race and what it means to be a creative black founder steering something huge.

There's also a different story at the heart of this, a genuine love of movies, that magic moment when the lights go down and the screen lights up. My name is Stacey Spikes, and I'm the co-founder of Movie Pass. That deep love of movies is something Stacy and I both share. And that's where our story begins. So you love movies, and I've heard you say that your favorite movie from when you were a kid is Blade Runner. What was it about Blade Runner that just did it for you? I think I was 11 years old when I saw it, and it was a rated R film, and I had to beg my parents.

And so they wouldn't let me see it alone. So my dad took me one day after work. And I remember my father falling asleep completely and snoring in the film. But there was something about it. I had already seen Star Wars. But this almost seemed like a reality you could touch that you believed was not that far away. Where I think Star Wars was so far away. It was fantasy.

but Blade Runner felt like, you know, this is, this is going to happen in a few years kind of thing. And when you're that young, you don't know the difference between reality and what's real and what's not. And I remember, I want to work in this world or in this business. I want to work in robotics. I want to do this kind of stuff that these people are talking about. And I just found it a beautiful film. And at the time, I think it touched me like a. touched a lot of people.

It wasn't a very big box office success. But it just stole my heart. There's literally on my wall in my office. I have a poster, Blade Runner still up today. Do you think your parents knew the seed that they were planting in you by exposing you to movies from such a young age?

Well, both of my parents were really big movie lovers. My dad was a really big Clint Eastwood fan. And my mom was the type that she's, a lot like me that she just goes. It's like, it's like part of your culture, right? It's just part of your life. And on Saturdays, she used to give me and my brother like, I swear, five butts each. And she would drop us off and come and pick us up in the afternoon. And she would run all of her errands. And this is how she had a Saturday babysitter for her kids. And today she would be. And today she would be,

arrested for that behavior. But true story. So every Saturday, we were, whether it was a double feature or seeing the same movie again, and the managers knew us, and we got our little hot dog and soda and popcorn. And what was quite amazing, I think after I saw Blade Runner, I told my parents I wanted to take a screenwriting class, and the only one they could find was at Rice University, which was a college course. And it was a summer course, and my mom got permission because she knew some people at Rice.

She got permission for this 11-year-old to sit in a movie screenwriting course. And I remember my feet couldn't really touch the floor that well. When I was young, I wanted to work in movies or something involving like culture or the arts. And I remember I would watch movies. My parents would take me to go rent a movie. And I would, but ending credits, I would pause it and look. at different jobs and be like, oh, a gaffer. Maybe I could do that. Like the idea of, you know, being able to somehow be involved in the creation of this thing that was so magical that

could transport you to a different world from your like suburban town was just all like, it really felt like something that was a far away dream. And then you get older and you're like, oh, somebody has this job. Why not me? Yeah. When you said transport you, you know, I always call it riding the light. It's like the lights go down in the theater and you have, even if you watch the trailer, you have no idea where you're about to be transported to. You can go back in time. You can go far off into the future. You can go, you know, metaphysical. It's like you have, you're, you have no idea where you're going to go. And I find that always so exciting about that experience. So I, I just,

weekend, the last three weekends, each weekend, I went to see sinners. And first time I saw it in the same weekend I went to a regular screening and then I saw it on IMAX and then I went this weekend. And each time, it's a different movie, right? There's something different. You see something else. There's an added thing. And while I've never been a filmmaker, I'm always looking at it.

where the camera sits, why did they choose to come up from below or why are they coming from on high or how are they panning and what they want you to see and how the cinematographer and different lighting, like the way Dune would change its whole color palette, depending upon what world you were on. Just all of that stuff, like my mind just geeks out on all of it. Movie Pass launched in 2011, but that shiny red car didn't hit my wallet until a few years later. By then, it was just $9.95 a month for unlimited movies. So going to see even one movie a month made it totally worth it. It kind of feels like a fever dream now, but Movie Pass made you feel like a god walking into that theater.

You could be walking down the street, spot a theater, walk in, and watch something. No planning, no hesitation. and I did that a lot. I saw movies I never would have pitt in theaters I never would have gone to otherwise. It made moviegoing feel spontaneous, accessible, and even kind of luxurious. I'm not ashamed to admit that a few times I even used a movie pass just to be able to use a bathroom in a movie theater while I was out and about. So for me, we were solidly still in the This Is Awesome era of the story. But even then, every time I swiped that movie pass card, I'd think,

how is this disdignable? Like how is this making anybody any money? It kind of felt like the money wasn't even real. And if it was, well, it wasn't my problem. I want to talk about movie pass because I remember the height of movie pass. And for people who weren't there, it's like it truly was that you had to be their moment in culture. It's kind of a joke in my house. My partner, one of our first dates, I was in a movie.

And they texted like, hey, do you want to? get a drink to want to hang out. And so I left the movie to come meet them. And they were like, wow, you must really be into me if you like left the theater. And I was like, nah, homie movie pass. I'll just go catch the end tomorrow. What was it like to be part of it in that heyday, in its height when like it was really popping? You know, one of the weirdest, our most outer body experiences that I had was I remember going to Rico Union Square. and I think it was on a Saturday. And I remember, so where you go,

and if you're getting your ticket in the theater, you walk into kind of this vestibule and there's two walls, but they kind of sit almost at an angle. You walk in this way and there's one wall here and one wall there. And I was standing at my wall, and I kid you not, everybody pulled out a movie pass. And I looked over to the other side,

and they all had movie pass. too and people were waiting and it was surreal it was like and people were looking at each other like yeah you're part of the club too and we know each other and we're you know we always had this thing movie passes for movie people right and we movie people understand what that mean and that was a very surreal moment that's when I knew we were sitting in another world then you were always on the grind for years trying to get this thing and get it up the hill and And everybody's trying to knock you down and it's not going to work and no one's going to like it. And the theaters aren't going to allow it. And then boom, it just, it's everywhere. And that was that moment. How did the idea come to be? You know, it wasn't, I don't think it's revolutionary.

It was kind of like we should make Netflix for movie theaters. It was just this idea that everyone was going in the, the direction of subscription. So you had music going subscription, you had, you know, streaming, you had everything going from your people were doing food coming to your house on a subscription. And movies just seem to make sense to a certain number of people who go often enough. And what you were doing was for the theaters, you were increasing attendance. and for the consumer, you were driving savings and reducing mental friction. Like, should I go?

Shouldn't I go? Then it just became a question of, do I have the time? And I know for me, with my movie pass, not only being a creator but a customer, I would be in a city somewhere. And oh, I got two hours before my next meeting and boom, I'm in a movie, you know? And it kind of changed the friction of it. While it may not be much, that $20 you make, should I spend the money on this?

It took that friction away. And that was a really big difference, you know, that I saw it happening. It's like you had to be there if you know, you know, kind of moment in culture. I have tried to describe what it was like to people who missed it. And I don't feel like I can articulate that cultural shift and like, yeah, just what a time it was in those early days. Yeah, it was a, you know, the big thing was in taking that friction away. It was about focusing on behavior and focusing on going and just, you know, being in the habit. And it's weird. Like some people might not understand it, but it was also not so much

about the money. It was about being a member of a group of people whose behavior, it was, was like, there are deadheads, right? And you would hear about deadheads saying, like, if somebody said to you, I took three months off my job to go follow the Grateful Dead around for the summer, you'd think they were crazy, right? But people do that. And you'd see white people talking about, yeah, I wouldn't follow the dead on. And, and, but I felt like movie past to movie people was not only this card carrying member that, yeah, I'm one of those people. And it was, I'm a cinephile. I love movies. Movies are a way of life. And movies are something that are so important to me that I want to make this investment in its future and my future. And that

monthly payment that I was making was also a forward looking statement of, of my commitment to this art form. And so that's what it made it really powerful to me and what we saw with other people. It had that no one had ever built a community around movie going. There was, you're a member of this theater chain or you're a member of the Disney Club or something like that, but no one had ever done it around just movie going in general.

I remember people saying, I'm going to go see every Oscar nominee on movie pass, right? And they would say, and they would post it. And that was, that was, you know, such a huge change. And I thought something great for our cinematic culture. Yeah. Like the cultural in-group building, I think is really important. Because, you know, if you're a movie, movie people are a, we are a weird type of people. It's a weird type of person who's like,

I want to see the movie. I want to read eight reviews about the movie. I want to see what they're saying on Reddit. I want to put it on the letterbox. Like that is a particular kind of person. And I think you built something that was like a way to signify that you were in this group. So I did a podcast yesterday and I asked them what movies had they seen lately. And it was very funny.

The two movies they named, I said, you saw that in theaters. They were like, no, no, no, on streaming. No, no. movie go to the movies and it's funny how you have some people who think if I watched it on my phone it's the same thing right like if you got to listen to a Prince song on your phone and you got to see Prince like those are not the same thing no and I mean not to go back to sinners but I hadn't been to the movies in a while and sinners was the first time I had been to the theater and the kind of a little bit. And we were

essentially dancing together, having this like communal experience. I forgot how fun and how special it is to go to a theater, this communal thing, the lights go down. And all of a sudden, y'all are like family. You're strangers. Especially a black movie. It's like

it is a special thing. And there is just no way I would have had as much fun watching it on my couch on TV. There's just no way. No. I think the most reason, recent most fun I had was when I went and saw Nope and it was like when Kiki's running and people are that they're like, run, bitch, run. Yes. There is like a special thing. You're not going to get that in your house. It is by yourself. I don't care how animated you are about the movie you're watching. And when I went and saw Minecraft, that was. crazy when I saw the Beyonce film and when she did Uncle Johnny, the Uncle Johnny track and

the fans came popping out. I was like, oh, shit. It's like, you know, it's like whenever somebody says I watched it at home or I watch it on my phone, I feel bad for him. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

There's the worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open.

Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Huber me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHard. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-844-I-I-Hart.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Tolodino. in our podcast point game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get to fly. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you. You get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than that. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian.

And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike! I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant recommend some of the most legally dubious advice

known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream. Cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite,

the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrat as part of the Mike Coutura podcast network available on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. I believe movies are forever. I think that we'll still have movie theaters regardless of whatever technological advancements

or changes might happen. But when I hear about people who are, how can I put this, putting up barriers to the experience of like getting lost in a movie, like they're going to watch it on their phone or they're going to text through it. You know, they want to have another screen to occupy their mind. I just sometimes feel bad

because, you know, part of the fun is giving yourself fully over to this immersive world. And I do worry that we are in a climate where some people are not allowing themselves the beauty of that experience because it's like, oh, well, I'll get the gist of it. I'll text through it or what have you. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, you know, I, we have this saying that adventure should never come with a pause button. And, you know, the powerful thing about it is you can't pause. You don't want to run to the bathroom. You are in the middle of an experience that the roller coaster started and you do not get off until it ends. And when I'm at home or I'm not in that type of environment, I cannot help but naturally be distracted and get a diminished experience.

You know, and we talked about how cinema was going to kill Broadway. And then television was going to kill cinema. And then streaming was also going to kill cinema and DVD and VHS and Blu-ray and larger screens. And the reality is it is still the number one out-of-home entertainment activity in the world by far. People go to the movies 10 times more than all sporting events combined, no matter what part of the world you're in. Whether you're in Asia, whether you're in Africa, or whether you're in India or even in America, we go 10 times more. So I think the headlines blow it out of proportion. It's still, you know, two thirds of Americans every year go to the movies, at least once.

And that's a big music concerts, anything. Think of it like this. On one movie that breaks $100 million in a single weekend, that movie had more people go to it than all of the games of the entire NFL season come back. Wow. One movie. So when people, I think it's the king of the hill that people still like to beat up on. but I like you think that it is the cheapest experience you can for a live event.

It is accessible and it's open 365 days a year. I don't think it's going anywhere. So what exactly went wrong with movie pass? Well, it was the usual. Growth at all costs. Remember how I was describing gleefully swiping in the movie theaters, thinking, good thing this math is somebody else's problem. Yeah, there's a reason that math didn't work.

In 2017, private equity firm Heliosin Matheson bought MoviePass. Mitch Lowe, a former Netflix executive and Ted Farnsworth, who, as far as I can tell, was just basically a professional scammer, were brought in as leadership. There was absolutely a racial dynamic at play here, too. You have a service created by black people, and then you bring in two white guys who maybe look the part of what some people assume a tech CEO looks like,

just without any of the actual vision. Ted and Mitch's big idea to save Movie Pass dropped the price down to $9.95 a month for unlimited movies. And as much as my greedy ass likes that price point, Stacey warned it was unsustainable, and he was fired from the company for saying so. Sure, subscribers skyrocketed, but the service quickly became unusable.

MoviePass started blocking users from seeing movies intentionally, resetting passwords and blaming fake fraud alerts. You know, something the government kind of thinks of as a crime. According to the FTC, MoviePass did this to 75,000 users. The FTC says that Mitch and Ted knew about, ordered, and helped run this so-called password disruption program they were running on paying customers. Meanwhile, Mitch and Ted were also blowing through MoviePass's money. Like flying the rapper 50 cents to Coachella on a MoviePass branded private jet. Why? Who knows? The Justice Department says this was all a scam. They lied to investors claiming the $9.95

model was profitable. When they privately admitted it wasn't. They also hyped up some powerful AI that was meant to monetize movie pass user data. Only that AI didn't actually exist. Classic AI washing, a tech CEO vaguely claiming that AI is doing a thing it is absolutely not doing. both Mitch and Ted eventually pled guilty to securities fraud. They face actual jail time. In just eight years, movie pass went from massive growth to total collapse. And Stacey, well, he was out of the company that he founded. What did it feel like to be pushed out of something that you built, you know, that was your baby? Well, you know, you watch movies and you watch stuff.

And if you saw a biopic and, I don't know, Cinderella Man or some movie where some lead character, something goes wrong with them, you like, you shouldn't have let that happen. You should have, you know. And it's funny when you're inside of it and it's unfolding in real time. And it was very simple kind of big boy chess moves where it was like we got some investor capital. We had three board seats. That additional money asked to expand the board to five, and he had then three seats, and we had two. And then he brought Mitch in,

and the next thing you know, the dynamics of the board had changed, and they were then able to make decisions that we couldn't stop. And you kind of think, oh, we're all friends here, and we all have the same purpose, and we're rowing in the same direction. And then quickly the dynamics had shipped it, and then you realize too late, you're out.

But people say, what would you have done differently? And I said, I honestly don't know because you're out raising capital. And there are some businesses you can go make a little hair salon or a pizza shop. And you have your initial startup capital. And you work your way up over many years. but when you're building something that is like a national theater subscription circuit, you can't do a little at a time. You kind of have to do it all.

And so you have that build cost. And so you have to build fast and someone else is going to build it and beat you to the race. Like Netflix, if you can get there and you can get there first and establish dominance, you can withstand the storm because you were first to the party. and even when people cut away like they're starting to do with streaming services, they're still going to keep the one. Back in the day, nobody would cancel HBO, right?

It was like you had your HBO. So it's similar to that. And having gone through that experience, you realize how many, you know, a lot of diverse founders or artists woke up, whether was Sammy Davis Jr. you're a Red Fox or Richard Pryor, and they woke up and they were broke. And they were like, how am I broke? You got to walk through something similar and you realize it can happen to you too, no matter how smart you are.

So I remember watching the girl group TLC give one of the most honest interviews I have ever seen after winning a Grammy for their breakout album Crazy Sexy Cool. When asked, how can you sell 10 million records and Sylby Broke? Their answer was a sobering reminder. Trust me, you can sell $10 million now and be broke if you have greedy people behind you. It's kind of a warning. No matter how talented, successful, or smart you are, you can still end up on the outs, especially if you're a black creative.

Stacey's story is ultimately about what it means to navigate this kind of dynamic. Getting pushed out of the very community that you built and being left to feel like you have nothing on the other end of it is a story far too many of us know all too well. Stacey writes about this in his book, Black Founder, The Hidden Power of Being an Outsider. Watching the documentary, I was really struck by the ways that it was a story about race,

and, you know, the reality is not great for, you know, folks of, like, entrepreneurs of color, I think it was like, what, like less than 1% of funding goes to us. And so is there a negative perception that comes with funders handing over a big check and a lot of trust over to a black founder? Do they feel more comfortable handing over that trust and handing over that money to somebody who looks like Mitch and Ted versus somebody that looks like me or you? Yeah, I mean, I definitely think there is a black tax that you have to pay. And I think that, you know, people, well, let me, I'm going to say something that, It's my experience, but it may, it may sound funny the way it's going to come out.

I think we are creatures of habits and we follow pattern recognition. And I'll give you a thought experiment and what I mean. So I was being interviewed by, I think it was in New York Times and it was a woman writer. And she asked me a similar question. And I said, you know, if we go outside, we were at the Angeleta. and I said, if we walk outside onto Houses and Street and we start asking people, close your eyes and tell me what a tech founder looks like, right? They're going to describe or give me a name or tell me what you think of tech founder. I told her, they're not going to describe someone who looks like me and they're not going to describe someone who looks like you.

But I said, tell me what a star basketball player looks like or tell me what a star athlete looks like or or even. Give me a star player in golf or even tennis or even gymnastics or any of those things. Well, they may describe someone who looks like me when it comes to that. And again, that's that thing about pattern recognition. And I think when I was working on my book and we were deciding what the cover was going to be, we talked about Black Founder and it was like, I wanted to put my face on the cover so that more and more you're going to see this is what founders look like too, right? And once upon a time, we were not in any sports. And so we had Negro leagues, but we weren't on the main field.

So over time, I think it can change, but there needs to be more of us who are out there making it happen and that they get to see us and they start to realize, okay, this is acceptable. I don't think it's like racism like they're not as good. I think it's a categorizing in a way to say, because I don't see this that often, I'm going to trust it less or I need more to be convinced that it works. I was reading an interview before we got on. I think it was with the, make the director of the film, one of the instances that did not make it into the film was that folks would come into the room and automatically assume bypass you and automatically assume like, well, certainly this white person is the founder. And I think that speaks to what you're talking about. It's not a question of

ability. If every time you walk into a room like that, the white guy is the founder, I can understand how we need to see more and more founders that look like you, founders look like me, so that folks break those patterns. 100%. It's just pattern recognition. Once you start changing the pattern enough, People become fine with it. I think, you know, with pattern recognition and being able to see how things can change over time, like first, black love on screen was crazy. You didn't see that. Interracial love on screen was, you remember with jungle fever, right? That was so taboo.

And then I remember Denzel doing, people were saying, why don't you ever kiss anybody in a movie, right? But he would have Julia Roberts or some lead across him, and they never touched each other. And then when I saw Moonlight, I was like, that's a huge accomplishment. You saw Black Love, you saw Same Sex Black Love, and it wasn't even broke back Mountain Violent in the tent. I'm taking this shit Black Love. It was beautiful. And that's what I mean by now you can see people moving around in the world. And it's fine.

It's like Pratton recognition. It's one of those strange things about our time, how people are trying to roll back things that are now commonplace and trying to roll history back to the 1950s as if that's something more sacred. But interesting. More after a quick break. other podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman,

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. The worst singer in the group. The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard,

uh, you only got in because your parents made a huge. donation. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yardt. They're open. Do you have a name suggestion?

We're open. Since you guys are middle age, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not. Thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to point game. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Joe Dono. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently,

I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian! I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice.

One ring is too scary. Oh, cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrat as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it.

In Stacey's book, Black Founder, The Hidden Power of Being an Outsider, Stacey says that being traditionally marginalized as an entrepreneur does come with challenges, but it's not always a bad thing. Sometimes it gives you the perspective to see needs others might overlook. That outsider's insight is what led Stacey to create urban world. now the largest Academy Award qualifying Black and Multicultural Film Festival in the world. And nearly three decades later, it's still going strong in its 29th year. The subtitle of your book, The Hidden Power of Being an Outsider, I've always thought this that, you know, being at the margins or being someone who's like traditionally marginalized,

it can actually be a place of power for folks who want to build something sometimes. Like, for instance, with Urban World, you saw an overlooked need in your own people in the community and we're able to build something that spoke to this need that existed, right? And so I feel like some of what you're trying to do is like reframe this thing that is so often, we're told as like a negative as like a kind of a source of strength. It's like, yeah, I bring a different perspective. I can see things that maybe other folks can't see. And that is a, that is a, in some ways, a gift. That's right. So when we started Urban World, it was like you had John Singleton, you had Spike Lee,

and you occasionally had another director who would pop up and do something. But there was so many other directors trying to break in and trying to get on the scene. And it's kind of like, you know, if we get to play, we're going to rock this. And the fact that the gatekeepers, there was a very systematic, type of gatekeeping. And what I struggled with was, I'm not, don't want to get on my soap bots too much,

but what I struggled with was the well-intentioned gatekeepers, often white, their version of what they like to see was black pain. And sometimes those of us who are coming from the experience don't just want to see that.

We want to see us having fun. We want to see us being the Cosby's. We want to see us making money. We want to see us in love. We don't just want to see that, oh, I feel so bad about what happened during slavery or during civil rights and the black pain experience. What about the black beautiful fun experience, right? And so the things that were bubbling through.

to the top were still those same experiences, but regular black life or fun black life wasn't getting seen because it wasn't critically acclaimed. And we felt that all of it needed to be seen. And at some point, someone said, urban world became to cinema what Showtime at the Apollo became to music. It became this curation place. And if you made it here, you can make it anywhere kind of thing. think. If we say it's great and we think you're great, then you're great. And that was like,

if you rub the stone at the Apollo and you made it there, forget about it. We don't care what the rest of the world says. We know you're the best because we are tough critics. And I remember when Ava DuVernay was our publicist. And I remember Ava sitting in the theater. We were watching Dream girls. Her mom's next turn. She goes, you know, I really want to make a movie. I go, well, Ava, we got Urban World, make it, we'll premiere it. And she made her first short film. And almost every film Ava's ever made, she's come back to Urban World and showcase. So it was our moment to move civil rights from music to film.

And Urban World was that thing to help make that happen. That's so beautiful. And I don't know, I mean, I think those investments that you make in people and their stories and their vision, They really come back. It says something that she continues to come back. Of course. Yeah. And I think it's great to have a home base.

And it just feels good to have a home, have a people that are supporting you and rooting you and watching you go out around the world, changing the world. And our stories, you know, our experience and our struggle, I travel all over the world. And what's really funny about these times we're walking through. America's greatest export is us. When you go to France, or you go to England, or you go to Hong Kong, those kids are wearing Jordans, they're wearing Kobe's shirt, they're watching Black Panther. It's like we are what they are most proud of. And when you think of the possibilities of America, the black experience is the one

that everyone holds up as, oh, that's why I want to go there. Sure, you can be a doctor or a lawyer or whatever, but we have such a unique experience about coming from the bottom up that that is one of America's greatest exports. And yet, why would you want to kill that? People love the idea of coming here because of those possibilities. And they see it in music and film. They love walking around Brooklyn knowing the streets where

so much of hip hop and coming to the blue note and seeing jazz and seeing all of these things where constant waves of our experience dominate the world culture. So I just, I think it's really important about that's what God gave to us to share to the world. You did a TED talk about the use of AI in filmmaking and you sounded like you really do think that film and music and culture and stories have the ability to literally change the world. And that if more people have the ability to make projects like this, that power only grows. I'm going to tell you a quick little story. So back in Warner Brothers music history, and I know this from the music industry because I was

there before I came into film, when you take, you used to have to go into a recording studio and you had to record stuff and it was very expensive. And the first person to really do that in our community was Barry Gordy with Motown. Now here comes MIDI recording where you can do a drum machine and you can do all this stuff. And this 17, 18 year old kid has a demo and the head of music at Warner Brothers went to see him. And it's Prince. and he asked Prince, who played on your album? And he said, I played all the instruments.

Okay? But he had the drum machine. He had the TASCAM 4 track. He had the synthesizers. He had the guitar. And he sang, and you could now go and make an album or at least a demo in your bedroom. Okay. keyboard, exploded music.

So what do you think's going to happen when filmmaking gets affordable that kids in bedrooms can now make movies? The same thing that happened with hip hop is about to happen with the longer visual form of storytelling and you can't stop it. And that's what I talked about during my TED AI talk. We've seen this before in technology with music industry. you can make a full album off of your iPhone right now. So the distance between what you imagine

and what you believe to happen, the distance between those two gets shorter and shorter and shorter. And AI is going to make that and it's going to bring the cost way down. Movie making is a very rich person's game. You're about to make it that kids are going to blow our minds with the place that they're going to take us now. It's a very, I mean, I love to hear an optimistic vision for the future for once. 100%.

But what do you say to people who say the opposite, that AI is simply going to kill creativity and film? You have people on both sides of the argument, kind of promoting doomsday scenarios on either side. Filmmaking's going to become so expensive it's going to die or filmmaking is going to become so cheap, no one's going to make it anymore. Well, it never has. happens that way because as artists mature up,

Prince didn't just stay recording in his bedroom, right? And when you saw many synthesizer bands, the ones who survived, they all went to real instruments. And you saw bands who hadn't used synthesizer pre-recorded stuff go the other way. So why do you see Christopher Nolan and others shooting on IMAX and shooting on film stock? Why do you see that? Because they look at the masters that came before them and there's stuff that they want to do.

And they play with the technology and they go forward and backwards in time. And that's how all art is. And so I'm not worried about it. Artists, artists tools change and change and change. But we are still connected to the artist and their journey and experience. and a robot or an AI system still needs to run through the human, you know, vessel that we as people will care about, right?

We want to know where you're from, what block you grew up on, what trials and tribulations you went through to make this piece of content. And that's when the audience will care. If you, if it's just I spit it out on my computer, no one's going to care. You know, we don't, we didn't care if Whitney Houston are, what do you call, Dolly Pardon wrote, I will always love you. But when that song came out through Whitney, we heard, we heard her mother, we heard Dionne Warwick, her aunt, we heard her church upbringing. We heard all of that come through Whitney. And you can't replace that. You know, that's the part that I think is very special.

So it sounds like you're saying that even if creators are finding ways to use tech and their work, it really all comes down to whether or not they're doing so in service of creating something authentic, you know, something new, something real, because if it's not authentic, your audience is really going to be able to sniff it out. Like, we'll know. Yeah, we've had, do you remember milly-binilly and sampling and people not singing on their own albums, whether it was AI or something else? We still crave authenticity. And authenticity will always trump that which someone didn't do.

Even when it came to sampling, we wanted to know where did that sample come from? Oh, that's Frank Sinatra or it's a hard knock life, right? We wanted to know. And then the sample wasn't cheating. The sample was, I'm going to bring another world of this white experience into our black experience and show you how they're the same. I'm going to have Annie tell you it's a hard knock life. And then I'm going to pull Brooklyn in here, right? Well, that's a, that, that pollinization is so beautiful and we've been doing it forever.

So I'm, again, I'm not overly worried or concerned about it. We love authenticity and artists are going to have to be authentic in their own way, whether you're using voice samples or whatever. And we, we know the real deal in what we want because we get goosebumps when it happens. And you can't deny it. Like, real, recognize real. You know something when it's authentic and it's grounded in that experience.

You can tell. That's right. 100%. In 2022, Stacey was able to repurchase movie pass. He still runs it today, along with Muggle, a brand new platform that lets movie fans compete in fantasy-style tournaments

based on their favorite entertainment. When Stacey relaunched movie pass, nearly one million people were waiting to sign up. I asked Stacey if it felt like he was recapt some of the magic of the old days. It was crazy. So in four days, we had 800,000 people sign up for the wait list. And people joined and it went, you know, instantly.

It was back. And so we were very excited about that. And, you know, we were catching back up. When we first were born, we were the first to the party. And then afterwards, it's been now that, You have, 60% of theaters have some form of movie pass, right? They have a subscription of their own. So now with Mogul and other things, we're even changing the space more.

But it was such a, how often does a founder get to go buy their baby back and relaunch it? You know, it just rarely happens. You know, that's like Steve Jobs and Michael Bell, Michael Dell from Dell computers, have gotten to go back and do that. That is a very rare thing. So I know how lucky we were to be able to do it. And it just meant so much of the fans that were so excited and were posting, like, I want my movie pass back. And that they were there when we were ready to bring it back.

They were there. They were like, I'm down. They love the idea that you can just go to any theater, to anywhere you want, and just boom, here's my movie pass. Let's go. You know, and that's what's really exciting where. All of the others, you can only go to just that theater, that theater chain, but movie pass you go wherever you want.

So it's still a beautiful thing, and we're continuing to grow it and love being that epicenter for fans and fandom, if you will, and being able to have that voice for so many people. Stacey, I could talk to you all day. Thank you so much for, like, honestly, just the fact that you have built such a great career and presence out of like nerdy black nerd shit. I really like yeah I it it really warms my heart and you you have such a passion for filmmaking and a passion for film it really is beautiful so thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. Bridget thank you so much and I'm actually working on a

book called How to Watch Movies and I there's so many times I was talking to people and I would say like going see a kid's film Don't go see it at night. Go see it early in the afternoon when the theaters pack the kids. Like you get a different experience. Like telling people how to go see movies can give you a different experience and just thinking, oh, I'm going to just go at 8 o'clock at night or 6 o'clock at night. Or where to go see a movie.

You go see a horror film. Go see it uptown. Yes. Right? Right? It's like there's places that you're going to get a whole different experience if you go do things. things in different ways and help educate people on how to how to watch movies is a whole different thing. I cannot wait for this book. When it comes back, when it comes out, please come back to the show.

This is, you have no idea you are like very much speaking of my language. I have a whole thing about how I go see a movie, where I go see a movie, who I see it with, who I don't see it with. I have a whole philosophy. Yep. It's a bad experience if you pick the wrong person to go see a movie. Oh my gosh. I'll go by myself. before I'll take the wrong person. Same, same, same. Oh, I love movies for myself. That's like my, like, special plays. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

Bridget, thank you so much. This was so awesome and wonderful. Oh, the pleasure was all mine. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.

It's a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone. I'm Cheryl Stray, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain.

In each episode, I interview athletes, adventure. and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. So we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed.

You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, everyone. It's Ryder Strong and Wilfredell from PodMeets World. And now the PodMeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely. clueless to reality TV. And we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. Again, we are experts. Listen to PodMeets Tworl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.