There Are No Girls on the Internet - New Taylor Swift conspiracy drops online; IRL violence from misinformation in Dublin; TikTok makes you 17% more antisemetic? Not quite, Nikki Haley – NEWS ROUNDUP

Episode Date: December 9, 2023

To skip the banter and get straight to the news, skip to 00:04:20 VOTE FOR THE IRL PODCAST TO WIN AN ANTHEM AWARD: TANGOTI.COM/IRL  During this week’s GOP debate, Nikki Haley dropped a curious stat about TikTok making users 17% more antisemitic every 30 minutes, but is that even true? Here’s the original analysis by Goldbloom but (A) Haley misstated the findings, and (B) this study wasn’t peer reviewed or published, so buyer beware:  https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1730255552738201854 Meta and TikTok explain their differing responses to Dublin riots and misinformation: https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/dublin-micheal-martin-meta-tiktok-elon-musk-b2459512.html Taylor Swift is Time’s Person of the Year and far right grifters are dropping conspiracies about why. ‘What’s happening is not organic’: Why the right thinks Taylor Swift is a government PsyOp designed to swing the 2024 election: https://www.dailydot.com/debug/taylor-swift-psyop-conspiracy-theory-2024-election/ Amazon sued for selling gross spy cams. Judge: Amazon “cannot claim shock” that bathroom spycams were used as advertised: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/amazon-faces-trial-after-selling-bathroom-spycam-used-to-abuse-minor/ Listen to Joey’s Afterlives podcast: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-afterlives-the-layleen-po-127683074/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

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Call 844-844-I-Hart. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Portia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise,

the drama, the alliances, M&T, everybody's talking about. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, Bridget here. The other podcast that I make with Mozilla about AI called IRL was nominated for an anthem award. It would mean so much to me if you could take just a few seconds and vote for IRL to win. Just go to tangoody.com slash IRL or use the link in our show notes. You can vote until December 21st. Thank you so much. It means a lot. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is their no girls on the internet. I am here with my producer Joey. Joey, it's nice to see you back. We missed you. Hi. It's nice to see you too. So as y'all know, we are trying to start every episode

with a little bit of light banter to sort of ease us into the episode. I tried my hardest to do it last week. We bannered. We bancher was head. A listener Susan actually emailed us with a great banter suggestion of using the time to sort of get to know our producer. because we hear from Joey, we hear from Mike. Listeners don't necessarily know who these folks are, even though I feel like, you know, I'm talking to them all the time. So to do that, let's play a little bit of my favorite game, Would You Rather?

Would You Rather is one of my favorite games. I play it endlessly on car trips. I've annoyed all my friends. I'll text, Would You Rather's? Okay. Would you rather be able to use the Internet only for 20 minutes every day? Or you can use it like normal, but your boss gets a detailed report

of everything you did online every day. Oh, my God. I got to think about that. Now I'm like, what do I do on the internet? What do I feel like I need to go through? Oh, okay. That's rough. Like, this is my problem.

I get way too strong. Like, I love these things, but also then I spend too much time being like, but what would I do? What if this was real? Um, I don't know. I, uh, but I think my boss is pretty chill. That's the I, so I'm thinking of like my boss currently.

Hi, Maya, if you're listening to this. Um, but like I wouldn't like I feel like that would be fine. Like I wouldn't like there's nothing. I right. Yeah. Like she would just sort of be like, all right, whatever. Like Maya wouldn't even look. I do spend like an embarrassing amount of time on like Twitter.

So like I don't like I don't really know if I want that like out into the world. Um, I'm going to say tentatively, I think my boss gets a detailed report on what I do just because I can't like the idea of only having 20 minutes on the internet. Like I'm like, that is not. I don't, beyond even just like the normal stuff, I like need to look up. Like, I don't know how to like function. Like I don't think I've ever cooked a meal without ever having to like look up. Something like really stupid. Like, I don't know. But yeah, yeah, that's my answer. What about you, Bridget? What about you?

Well, I'm my own boss. Oh, okay. Really, it's like, I will say to your point about, like, the things that I have to Google when I'm cooking, like, a tablespoon is, you know, how many cups in a tables? Like, things I feel like I should have learned in grammar school. Like, if I, if people, if another human got to see the level of inane things that I have to check via Google, I will be very embarrassed. Oh, the other one recently. I've been working on a project currently that's making me go through. through some like j-store articles and some like really academic stuff, which is super fun.

I love doing that stuff. Like honestly, like that's kind of should I like I'll nerd out over. However, it's been a minute since I've read like academic articles and I don't. There's a lot of words that I've had to Google just like that are like weird words. Like I'm like, but yeah, like I feel like my recently, it's either that or like if I'm writing something and I'll be like I keep spelling this word wrong. Those are usually like stupid ones. Like that's usually like. like, I can't remember how to spell like schedule or something. Like, I don't. Um, that might be a little embarrassing.

But you know what? Yeah, I can't. I can't, I don't know what words mean. I think, but that's, okay. So here at there are no girls on the internet, we have been watching the Republican debate so that y'all don't have to. It has been interesting and frustrating. I would say like 80% of what comes up on the,

on the Republican debate so far has been like, stunts or scams or grandstanding or conspiracy theories. And then maybe like 20% is actual policy discussions. Genuinely, when I watched it this week, I had to turn it off for a little while and like collect myself and then return to it. So technology has come up in most of these debates, specifically whether or not TikTok should be banned. Former South Carolina governor Nikki Haley has been all in on banning TikTok.

And in this week's debate, she dropped a startling statistic that just 30 minutes spent on TikTok makes people 17% more anti-Semitic. We really do need to ban TikTok once and for all. And let me tell you why. For every 30 minutes that someone watches TikTok, every day, they become 17% more anti-Semitic, more pro-Hamas based on doing that. Which is like a pretty big claim. So whenever I hear a candidate make like a clear specific claim like that,

You got to dig into it to find more, right? Because it should be pretty cut and dry, right? Like find the stat, confirm whether it's accurate or not. So I thought this is going to be a straightforward fact check for y'all. When I tell you, this was so much more complicated. So that 17% figure that Haley cited actually came from a data analysis shared on Twitter on November 30th by Anthony Goldblum. Goldblum is the former CEO of a data science platform called Kaggle. I looked into Goldblum.

He is like a macroeconomist from Australia. So first, Haley misstated what Goldblooms analysis found. Goldblooms analysis suggests that people who spend 30 minutes a day or more on TikTok are 17% more likely than others to hold anti-Semitic or anti-Israel views. We'll come back to that point in just a moment. For comparison, according to this analysis, use of Instagram for 30 minutes today was associated with a 6% increase in the likelihood of anti-Semitic views, and the use of Twitter for 30 minutes a day was associated with a 2% increase in likelihood.

Side note, when Goldblum tweeted this, you know Elon Musk was in the thread being like, interesting. This says that actually Twitter is not a big driver of anti-Semitism. You don't say that's great for me, unsurprisingly. So Haley has definitely misstated the conclusions of this analysis. She said during the debate, for every 30 minutes that somebody watched TikTok, and that's simply not what this analysis suggests. The stated conclusions of the analysis are that people who spend.

30 minutes or more on TikTok every day are 17% more likely to hold anti-Semitic attitudes. What it does not suggest is that spending 30 minutes on TikTok will bolster someone's anti-Semitic views. By 17% specifically. By 17%, which is like, oh, like that's like a real like. How does one get 17? I want to like, I would love for an interviewer to ask and Nikki Haley how exactly somebody gets seven, like what is the metric to measure that?

What is 17 more anti-Semitic? 17% more anti-Semitic than what you previously were. That's, yeah. So I think that's why what you said, I think that's exactly why people are really responding to this on Twitter. That people are like, what is the metric that you're using? Like, how are you quantifying this? Had I been the moderator of that debate, I would have definitely pressed her because it's like, you can't drop a stat like that.

And then you just like, oh, well, 17% my, my. Anyway, moving on. Like, that's really a stat that, like, she clearly got it. somewhere. And so I do think the moderators, it would have behooved them to ask a little bit more about where that stat came from. So she is just flat out misstating what that analysis actually said. But then there's the issue of the analysis itself that is a bit more complicated. So I want to be super clear that I am like no researcher. I don't have an educational background in this at all. But our producer, Mike, has a PhD and does survey research for a living. I had Mike take a look at the

analysis and he raised a few questions. First, Goldblum does not describe his methods in the survey. So we don't know a ton about how he came to these conclusions around that 17% figure. It's entirely possible that these methods are perfectly sound. But because when he shared his analysis, he did not also share his methods, we have no idea and we can't even look into it to say. This was not a study published in a scientific journal. It is just an analysis that somebody posted on Twitter and GitHub.

So definitely, like, keep that in mind when thinking about this stat. Second is the way that Goldblum framed the survey questions to determine how often the people responding to the survey use TikTok. According to his data, 90% of all respondents use TikTok at least once a day, which is certainly not representative of the larger United States population. He also did not control for age. We know that folks who use TikTok tend to skew younger, and we also know that younger people tend to be more sympathetic to Palestinians.

So in his correlational study in which he didn't control for age at all, it is possible that the entire effect is driven by the fact that the people who use TikTok tend to be younger than the people who don't. We just don't know. So another point that I wanted to make, which this is coming from noted non-researcher, me, Bridget, and not researcher, Mike, is the way that Goldblum correlates anti-Israel views with anti-Semitic views. On Twitter, Goldblum fleshed this out, saying TikTok users are more likely to believe

Jewish people are dishonest in business, are disloyal to America, and I have too much power in media. They are also more likely to disagree that Israel has a right to defend itself against those who want to destroy it. And I guess I just have questions about this framing that puts very clear anti-Semitic tropes like Jewish people have too much power

alongside specific policy opinions about the state of Israel to make the overall claim about TikTok users being anti-Semitic. I just have questions about how he, how those survey questions are being understood in this analysis. Yeah. That's definitely like the biggest red flag for me. I'm also not, I'm also not a, you know, professional researcher. I did however go to journalism school and they teach us a lot about, you know,

not asking leading questions or not how framing questions in a specific way like kind of determines how, like, I don't know. I learned that in like AP stats too. Like that's a pretty basic concept. And this is like, hey, what it, what it does, whenever you have something that's talking about anti-Semitism, and you are also roping in the most basic questions about Israel and the Israeli military and like, yeah, like this said, specific policy questions, like that's, that is so much more complicated than just simply asking about anti-Semitism. And also, then what it ends up doing is falsely equivocating any sort of criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism, which is not true.

It is not like, look, like, we're in the middle. I mean, and I think now, especially now we're seeing this, like, there's a lot of, like, people that are Jewish that are very critical of Israel or Zionism or, like, the Israeli state. There are people I know that, like, I mean, I don't know. I have family members that aren't even, like, super, that are definitely, like, Zionists, that are definitely more pro-Israel, but they're very critical of the Israeli state because the estate is currently, like,

has a super far-rate government in charge. But yeah, no, that is a weird, like, I think that, that to me, just hearing that he put those two things together and use that as one sort of set of data and to make, like, one assumption about whether or not people are anti-Semitic and hold anti-Semitic views, that, to me, just qualifies,

the entire results of the survey, because if you're not making that distinction, you're not going to get accurate results. Yeah. And I want to be clear, like, I am fully, fully ready to believe that it's possible that TikTok drives harmful attitudes like anti-Semitism. We already know that TikTok, like, this is something that happens on social media platforms. This is not like a surprise. Media matters in an analysis that found that TikTok recommends users' content that is misogynistic and deeply transphobic and uses that kind of uses transphobia and misogyny as a entry point to lead them down far right rabbit holes. And so that is a thing, right? But I wanted to bring this up because I do think it says something about our current political and media climate right now.

It is very weird to me that someone running for office, running for president, could clearly and specifically state something as a clear fact, based on just an analysis that somebody put out there on Twitter. And that that claim would be this difficult and complicated to verify. You know, I've seen people like dismissing Haley's claims, which I also like kind of understand because it does. Like I was when I was like looking into this, I was ready to be like, what did Nikki Haley completely misunderstand or like, where did she pull this completely ridiculous stat from? I thought it was going to be like a made up stat that she just like fabricated. And I'm realizing now that like that isn't necessarily the case. And I actually do think it matters how platforms are shaping and stoking social attitudes.

But I wish that we could have that conversation in a way that doesn't misstate findings or that doesn't spotlight, you know, analysis that's just murky. Murky in the sense of like it's not clear how it was how it was gathered. Right. So like I don't think that this is actually helping us together. there. And I actually would be curious to have that conversation. Yeah. No, definitely. I think this is a weird one because I also, yeah, I think my immediate, I'd seen that, like, I saw that clip on Twitter. And my immediate response was just like, oh my God. Like, of course, Nikki Haley is saying some weird stuff. But yeah, no, it definitely is indicative of something. And I think it also, like, the way,

the fact that like something like TikTok that's just a platform has been politicized so much, that makes it so hard to actually analyze, like, what we're talking about and analyze the way that, yeah, like, what, there is a conversation to be had about these sites, like, stoking hate and, like, not just anti-Semitism, but, like, racism, but, like, racism, transphobia, homophobia, homophobia, misogyny. There is a conversation to be had there. It is important that we, like, figure out ways to address that problem. But, like, there's so many intersexing issues here. A, it's the fact that TikTok's been politicized, and it's so hard to actually do that. research when it's been politicized in this way. And then on the other hand, like, I think this is why it is so important to distinguish between what is actually anti-Semitic and what is simply criticism of Israel. That's not necessarily anti-Semitic. Because it's so, like, I feel like I'm having this. This has been a frustrating thing lately when trying to find just like statistics and info about anti-Semitism in particular. Is it so much of it is so hard to like really get real clear answers just because, yeah, so many people, whether just sort of by assumption

or like with a specific agenda have included criticism of Israel or have included criticism of Zionism within their analysis of anti-Semitism. And I'm not saying, like, again, not saying that there aren't criticisms all of Israel and Zionism are out there that turn into anti-Semitic talking points. obviously that is a thing too and that is bad but like those you should be addressing those as anti-Semitism and because of the anti-Semitism they got not because they're just

criticizing a government that is separate from just a group of people that share an identity but yeah that that is it's weird it is a weird like it's one of those I feel like this is another one of those things where like the Republican Party says something really weird

and it's like a meme for a bit and then you're like we all think about it like a week later and are like oh, oh no, this is bad. Like, these are, and again, like, this is somebody running for president of the United States. Yeah. Also, I'm sorry. I don't, like, this is the, like, the Republican Party. This is, y'all are the, like, Jewish Space Lasers party.

Like, you can't be out here being like, it's TikTok that's making people anti-Semitic. Like, I don't know. That's calls coming from inside the house. Like, yeah, it's weird. I was literally just thinking when you were saying that, I was thinking the same line. Like, that call us. might be coming from some of the houses on that one. Let's take a quick break.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. The worst singer in the group. The worst?

Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yardt. They're open.

Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny.

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcast.

Call 844-8-4-4-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-I-Hart. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the play. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that I said, you figure it up. real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. And we're back. So we got to talk about this Amazon lawsuit. Quick heads up that this conversation does involve the sexual exploitation of a minor. So two years ago, a Brazilian teenager was participating in a foreign exchange student program. So she was living with a host family in West Virginia. And while she was there, she discovered that her host. family, or someone in the host family, had put a spy camera purchased from Amazon in her

bathroom to obtain intimate footage of her in the bathroom. So now she is suing Amazon for selling a product that was advertised for potentially illicit uses and was allegedly flagged to Amazon's product safety team, which her suit says inspected the sale of that camera on their platform three times and still failed to prevent the severe foreseeable harms that still affect her today. I'm sure those harms do affect for today. That is horrible. So Amazon filed a motion to dismiss the case back in March, but this week, the judge hearing the case did not buy most of Amazon's arguments. So the case will proceed to discovery and maybe even a trial. The judge let four claims stand, negligence, product liability, torts of outrage, which is the intentional infliction

of emotional distress, and civil conspiracy. But the judge did dismiss a racketeering claim against Amazon. So this case is super disturbing to me. And it also highlights that Amazon's marketplace does knowingly sell things that are pretty obviously not just used for illegal harmful behavior, but basically like advertised that they can be used for that illegal harmful behavior. The camera that her host family had bought on Amazon is called Hidden Clothes Hook Camera. It's a camera that is meant to look like a hook that you would hang a towel on in a bathroom. And in fact, images that appear in the marketing on Amazon's website advertising the camera show a bunch of bath towels and they have copy that says, quote, it won't attract any attention, underline and a very ordinary hook. Yuck. So it's pretty clear, like, but what they are advertising, right? Like, side note on this, I have seen products for sale on Amazon that could be used for other kinds of illicit purposes, but they actually are not super explicit about this. Like, When you buy a scale on Amazon that could be used to weigh drugs, for instance, on Amazon,

they'll show like a tiny piece of green lettuce being weighed on that scale, not like a piece of marijuana because they don't want to advertise that it can be used for weighing marijuana. So it's like a roundabout way of them not advertising that this can be used for illicit behavior. I'm not going to lie. I totally forgot that it's still technically illegal to buy weed in most states. So did I. I was like, what?

I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Every time I leave, like, one of the handful of cities that I spend a lot of time in, like, do you see New York City, Brooklyn, Virginia? I'm like, oh, yeah. I don't find myself in those places often, but when I am, I'm like, oh, yeah, y'all don't do that down here. Yeah, no, it's so, it is like, I don't know, a whole other tangent. Yeah, I know, I had a friend visiting recently from a state where it is not legal. they were just like, what?

Like, we could just, there's just like a store across the street we could go to? Yeah, no. It's anyways. So I do think that marketing is a pretty good argument for the fact that Amazon was well aware what this product was being used for and like how it was being, like what use case it was being advertised to be used for, which is exactly what the lawsuit argues to. The lawsuit says that Amazon's product safety team was aware that the close-hook camera was intended for unlawful purposes, citing exactly.

what I just read, the marketing that says that the hidden camera will not attract attention from the victim, who would presumably hang a towel to be used in drying her undressed body. The complaint reads, the intended use of this spy camera as explicitly portrayed on Amazon's online retail store, e.g. as a towel hook in the bathroom to secretly record undressed individuals without their consent, is a federal felony and also a crime under West Virginia law. So the judge didn't outright dismiss the case against Amazon because the judge said, quote, Amazon approved product description suggesting consumer use of the spy cam to record private moments in the bathroom. Amazon cannot claim shock when a consumer does just that. So there are plenty of like non-creepy

reasons that somebody might put a camera in their home. I have a lot of issues with it, but my mom has cameras all over her house because my dad is disabled and like might be in another room and need help. But those cameras are not disguised as bathroom hooks. Professor Eric Goldman, who runs the tech and marketing law blog, said that this ruling could potentially change the way that spy cams are sold through online retailers like Amazon. He writes, the court's analysis could indicate that all surreptitious hook cameras are categorically illegal to sell, even when buyers plan to use them completely legally. That makes this a dangerous ruling for the spy cam industry and for Amazon. At the same time, I'm curious to hear more about what Amazon's product safety team thought when it

evaluated this item, because according to the suit, they evaluated it three times and still allow that on their platform. And I do think it kind of goes back to what we were talking about when we talked about TikTok shop. Like, I don't think that platforms should just be off the hook. Like, I don't think that they should be able to knowingly profit from the sale of items that make clear that what their intended use is for is something that is illegal and super harmful. Yeah. Yeah. And like, honestly, the whole idea of having a camera that you can disguise as like a clothing hook, Like, I don't know. I can't think of any situation where you would need that, where it, like, it seems justifiable. I don't know. Like, honestly, like, I feel like that is something that you only use to, like, get footage of people without their permission. And, like, this is usually the outcome of that. Like, I don't know. I feel like, specifically just designing it as, like, a hook. Like, I can't, I don't see any argument for why that's something that somebody would need. The whole idea of, like, hidden camera, which comes up on the show. Like, surveillance and like hidden cameras.

Like, we're all way too comfortable with this idea of hidden cameras. I, like, I seriously, like, it seems really strange to me and it seems like this is just, we're going to see more and more of this happening and more like of these kind of stories. Joey, don't even get me started. You know, it's holiday season. I'm sure people are going to be buying all kinds of cameras and devices with cameras and recording devices to be given to their loved ones to like put in their home. so that Amazon can misuse, as they have done,

they settled a lawsuit about their staff using cameras to, like, peep at consumers or so that police can get your information. Like, don't do it. Take it from me. Like, like, love your loved ones more than giving them the gift of surveillance. Give them the gift of privacy instead. So we talk a lot about the IRL consequences of misinformation online on the show. And that means that we really have to take a look at what's happening in Ireland.

So last week in Dublin, social media-fueled disinformation turned into a situation with very real-world consequences. Three young children and a woman were injured in a knife attack near a school in Dublin last week. The suspect was apprehended. I think it was like a situation where like people walking by, people nearby just all helped to apprehend the suspect and help the victims. The motive was, according to police, entirely unclear. However, according to the New York Times, the police said that the attack was followed by destructive riots, that they blamed on the far right weaponizing misinformation about the knife attack. So the evening after the attack, chaotic scenes broke out in the city after a group of rioters attacked police vehicles and set fires. Videos from that scene showed like stores being broken into, police cars and buses being set on fire, people clashing with police officers, all of that.

In the wake of that attack, far-right figures were using social media to spread rumors about the nationality of the attacker. And one protester said that, quote, Irish people are being attacked by the scum. Drew Harris of the Dublin police suggested that they were being driven by misinformation online about the knife attack being spread for what he called malevolent purposes. Ireland's president, Michael D. Higgins, said that the idea that the attack would be used or abused by groups with an agenda attacks the principle of social and inclusion and is reprehensible, referring to these far-right protesters, and that it deserves condemnation by all who believe in the rule of law and democracy. So that happened last week. Now, this week, social media platforms were being taken to task for what happened. The Independent, which is where I get most of my news about what's happening in Ireland, had a really comprehensive

breakdown of what happened, which we'll throw on the show notes. Irish politician Tonista Michael Martin said he was concerned about the rapid mobilization of so many people via social media platforms. So Facebook, TikTok, and Google, which all have Dublin headquarters, appeared before the Irritus Media Company to discuss disinformation, media literacy, and the response to the chaos in Dublin. So guess who didn't even bother to show up to that committee to talk about what happened? Can you guess? Ooh. I am sneaking suspicion. It might be one. formerly known as Twitter. Am I right?

You are right. So that's what Elon Musk has not done now, which is that he didn't even show up to this committee. And the politicians who were running this thing were not having it. Yeah, he doesn't have to answer to the American government. Why would he have to answer the Irish government, you know? Fine Gail TD, Kieran Cannon encouraged Twitter employees to drop an email to the owner of Twitter, Elon Musk,

suggesting that he desist from commenting on affairs within Ireland, which he patently knows nothing about. He also added that Elon Musk personally served to stoke up hatred and conflict in recent times here in Ireland, and that he should be deeply ashamed of those actions. Let him know, Cannon. Yeah. I would not, I would not fuck with the Irish, like, with this sort of thing, too. Like, Elon Musk, I feel like that would also be very poetic justice if this was what led to the Elon Musk downfall.

I think that would be really funny, but probably won't, unfortunately. Yeah, you don't want this. You don't want that, you don't want smoke with the Irish. Right now, Elon Musk, this is not a fight you want to pick. They've gone through so much. So the platforms who did actually show up kind of gave the usual song and dance. I got to say, like, I was sort of heartened to hear what TikTok said that they had done in light of this incident.

So Susan Moss, they had a public policy for TikTok, Ireland. said that TikTok had activated its crisis management protocols to remove violating content and to prevent the spread of misinformation. She said, we activated our emergency fact-checking procedure in collaboration with those fact-checkers. We have a fact-checking organization here in Ireland. And what they did is that they were flagging content, not this on TikTok, but horizon-scanning across the internet and flagging to us, these individual claims that they were seeing. That helped us to stop the content spreading on TikTok.

She said that there were 25 individual claims or type of stories that she saw, moving across the platform. And she did say that she felt that TikTok's response had been very fast moving and that she was very confident in it. But then contrast that with Facebook. So Facebook said that they removed a thousand pieces of misinformation from the platform in the first half of this year, which I'm sorry, that is not a lot. Like a thousand pieces of misinformation is just not a lot. And also, it just doesn't work like that. Like, trust me, this was my flagging individual pieces of misinformation for removal was my job at one point in my life. And I can tell you that job was the equivalent of playing whackamol. Like even if it's removed, which is better than nothing, it just pops

back, it pops right back up. And so Facebook saying like, oh, this piecemeal strategy that we already know is not really that effective. That was our main line of defense. That is shocking to me. And like, almost laughable. They also said that they use debunking labels on false content, which we also know isn't always that effective. Again, it's better than nothing, but they're like using these tactics that we have known for a while are not necessarily the most effective. Lawmakers also asked specifically about the issue of a voice note

that was being shared on the Facebook-owned messaging app, WhatsApp, calling for immigrants to be killed and asked if there was a failure to curb it from spreading like wildfire. I will say that WhatsApp being a closed platform where the messages are encrypted means that like tackling harmful or inaccurate information there is like a specific unique challenge. Like that is true. But I was really surprised by just how not robust what Facebook was offering was in comparison to what TikTok was saying that they were doing. Like they're very different platforms.

But I just can't believe that like this is what Facebook brought to these lawmakers in Ireland after such a such chaos that, that these folks say was sparked by social media platforms. Well, you know, TikTok's too busy making everybody 17% more anti-Semitic for every 30 minutes you spend on TikTok. Not to go back to that, but now I'm wondering is that you get progressively more anti-Semitic, like the more 30-minute chunks go by. But yeah, see, their TikTok's too busy. They can't be spreading misinformation in Ireland.

So if you use an hour, if you use a TikTok, for an hour a day, are you, like, 34% more anti-submed? Like, how does it work? Is there, like, I'm, I want a graph. I want a chart. I want the full, again, I took AP stats. I know how this is supposed to work. Yeah.

No, but there definitely is something. I mean, like, and not, not to give TikTok too much credit, because, again, they're a big social media company that, you know, deserve. much of the criticism it gets, but like it really is, says something I feel like that TikTok is under fire so much, like, in the news cycle and it's like, and yet they seem to be the only platform that's like responding to these kind of things. Um, you know, I guess everybody makes fun of the fact you can't say like, there are certain words you can't say on TikTok, like, people started saying like unalived instead of killed and stuff like that, but like it's, I don't know,

it's something to me said about the fact that I'm like, TikTok at least has that in place, but like, no other social media company apparently has any interest in doing anything to moderate its content, I guess. I agree. And I think it really demonstrates how it really isn't about one specific platform. And so conversations like the one that happened on the GOP debate stage this week that make it about one singular platform are like are just deeply missing the point, right? It is about having a safer, robust digital landscape. And that is, that is a, that is a. a conversation that involves lots of platforms and a lot more, but just making it about one,

making one singular platform, the boogeyman, it's just like not how we get to a safer media landscape where the kind of thing that happened in Dublin does not happen anywhere else, which should be the goal. Exactly, yeah. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to, David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group.

The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name.

The Harvard yard, but they're open to change. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. since you guys are middle-aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny.

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Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-I-Hart. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. and finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's first, friends stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball like, you go through a training camp with that

Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Let's get right back into it. So as you probably know, Time Magazine released their person of the year and it's Taylor Swift. I've seen a lot of conversation about whether she deserved it or not. I will say people forget that it's, I think it's not supposed to be like the best person of the year. It's like the most impactful or important or like meaningful person of the year. A lot of folks have said like, oh, it should be like Palestinian journalists or activists. Someone else I really respect said that it should be the concept of like disruptors or like resistors.

So people who are, you know, challenging power structures and technology, challenging state power structures, which I thought was cool. Remember that year when it was just like you? So it was you, Joe. It was me, Bridget. It was every listener listening. It was all of us. Was that? That was like in the middle of like lockdown, right?

Like, wasn't it? When was that? Oh, Mike just chimed in. Did you hear that? It was 2006. Okay. that I don't remember it because I was five years old. Or six years old, sorry, I was six years old.

At six years old, you were Time Magazine's person in the year. Wow, successful. Yeah, me and Taylor Swift. Yeah, no, there's always weird discourse about it. Like, I, people love to bring up one of the people always bring up is that like in the 1930s, they made like Hitler personally year one time and they were like, see guys. Like, people always use that as, like, the, see, they're bad and they, they keep picking. And it's like, no, like, that was the person in current events at that time that was causing the most weird shit going on.

So, like, yeah, I guess in that sense, like, it makes, you know, Taylor Swift has a lot of power, has a lot of cultural power, has done a lot. But, yeah, I don't know. I definitely agree. I think, like, I'm not surprised that the time is like. magazine didn't do this, but, like, it would have, like, there definitely are, like, Palestinian journalists that I think have really, like, changed just so much of, like, how we've been talking about Palestine. I don't know.

Like, it definitely, I think it would have been a much more deserved to maybe give it to one of them. No disrespect to Taylor Swift. But, yeah, it definitely, it feels like there's been a lot of big things that have happened this year. Maybe, maybe some other people should have been considered. But yeah. Yeah. That's kind of what people are saying. So because she was named Time Magazine's Person of the Year, she did this wide-ranging interview in the magazine and posed on a cover with her cat.

So I have not actually read this interview. But I do know that Taylor has had, you know, a pretty big year with her Erez tour, which I did not know this, the highest grossing tour ever by a woman and the second highest grossing overall tour. You know, she's got this high-profile romantic relationship with an NFL player. People obviously had a lot of a opinions about whether or not Taylor deserved or should have been the person of the year. And if folks listening have opinions, I want to hear them, please let me know. However, it also seems like there is a new conspiracy theory emerging from right-wing pockets of the internet. Some of the biggest names on the far right are suggesting that Taylor Swift is

being promoted right now as some kind of like, sigh-up campaign to get people to vote for Democrats, question mark. Conspiracy theorist Laura Lumer, who, who, I was going to say who she is. And I was like, oh, she's not like a very important person. But I actually did not know this, that just last year, Laura Lumer narrowly lost a bid to represent Florida's 11th congressional district. Well, she tweeted, Taylor Swift has been named Times 2023 person of the year. This isn't shocking since she's who the Democrats are counting on to interfere in the 2024 election. What would Democrats do without their idol who runs through men like water and spews anti-Trump dribble every chance she gets?

gets, her entire world tour has become a Democrat Party voter registration drive. You might be asking, why would Taylor Swift architect a global tour across Latin America, Australia, Asia, and Europe specifically to register voters in the United States presidential election? Unclear how that would work, but that is what Laura Lumer says is going on. I think it is really funny that everybody, like, listen, I'm a Taylor Swift, and I will say, I love her music. I did go to the Ares Tour. I've been following her for a while. Like people really from all sides like try to attach some sort of like political bookie man thing to her, I think.

Which is weird because she's like, when I say apolitical, not in the like, oh, I don't want to like, oh, she just like doesn't want to talk about. Like she just doesn't, I don't think I've ever seen her say anything that's like remotely like political. Like the, I don't know, the most, she's spoken up a little bit about like feminism and stuff like that. But it's never like super in depth. Like I've never seen her like comment on like a specific sort of issue that's happening, which I think is interesting. I think it like mostly is just the fact that she has such a big platform and she has such a big platform that's like mostly young women. But then yeah, the other side is crazy. because if she wanted, she has so much power.

Like, she could, like, literally, I remember seeing something about, it was after the whole, like, ticket master thing, like, somebody was like, somebody, like, needs to get her to just, like, say something offhandedly about, like, student loans or something so that people, like, start, like, they're, like, whatever, they're gains the sort of political momentum from the Swifties that we need to, but yeah, no, exactly. That is kind of crazy that she would have this whole global tour.

when like all, yeah, again, all she would need to do is make an Instagram post being like, I think you should vote for this person. And people, I mean, I think she could do it. I think if she wanted to, but like she's not going to and she's never. I don't know. Yeah. And like she did post on Instagram for National Voter Registration Day. And like that single Instagram post did drive like, I think it was 35,000 new people to register to vote. But registering voters is not the same thing as. like taking a stand like on an issue. Taking a stand or like it's not like she said register and vote for Biden or like vote for a specific person.

So it's like just just driving registrations is nonpartisan or it certainly should be nonpartisan. Right. And so like this idea that like she's a shill for the Democratic Party is so curious to me. It makes me think like if you feel that Taylor Swift driving people to register to vote in general is automatically her being in hands for the Democratic Party. It really tells me a lot about what you think that, you know, people who are not Democrats have to offer young women voters, which is maybe not a lot. So former Trump White House advisor, Stephen Miller, tweeted, what's happening with Taylor Swift is not organic, which is like the weirdest sentence I've ever seen someone tweet. Like, first of all, weird thing to say to begin with. We're a way to praise that. Also, it's like,

Taylor Swift has been a huge pop star for a while. And like, yeah, that is so, that is so weird. That is the, yeah, it's the kids these days. It's their fault. Rock and roll and Taylor Swift. That's exactly it. Jack Prosbyek tweeted, The Taylor Swift Girl Boss Siop has been fully activated

from her hand-selected vaccine shill boyfriend to her Dink lifestyle. If you don't know what Dink is, it's dual income, no kids. to her upcoming 24 voter operation for Democrats on abortion rights, it's all coming. I do find it interesting

that they're calling her out for being, like having a dink lifestyle, as if just like not having children as some sort of like morally deviant way to live. Yeah, that's so weird. Like,

she's not, she's also like, what, like 33, 34, like she's not. I don't know. I guess that's like 33. Yeah. Which I guess, yeah, I guess that's a normal age to whatever to get married and have kids. But like, I don't know. I know plenty of people that are like in that age or age who aren't.

And that's such a weird like. I think I've never heard that phrase before. But that is that's weird. Her vaccine chill boyfriend too. Honestly, I think Travis Kelsey, you know, this is my controversial opinion. Travis Kelsey should have been a time person of the year. His tweet. So funny.

Like his tweets have been like the light in my newsfeed lately. So. Joey coming in with a hot take. Her box scene show boyfriend. That's so insane though. They really like it is again, this is why I like, I think it is so weird that they found her to be a target of all of this.

Because again, she is like the most mild like, un, like doesn't really, has not said anything particularly controversial. that is so weird. Yeah, and I talked about this in an episode years ago, but only recently has she been somebody who publicly identifies as a feminist.

Like she was on record in the early days of her fame being like, I'm on a feminist. I don't believe in men versus women, yada, yada, yada. And it wasn't until kind of later in the game that she was like, oh no, I'm a totally a feminist. And so it's curious to me that these people are criticizing her for it. And I also think like the whole thing is really like gendered and racialized. Like I think I don't think any of these people would ever say that part out loud.

But like they're giving her crap for not having children being somebody who is in a relationship with another person who earns income outside of the home and not having kids a dink. And, you know, certainly they would not be clamoring for me a black woman to have kids or I'd be a welfare queen. And they wouldn't be clamoring for people who aren't cis women to have kids. kids because they might be like threats to children, right? And so like it's very interesting who gets kind of smeared as doing something wrong just by virtue of them not having a child. And I guess I feel like you can't really talk about the kind of hate that she is receiving from these people without talking about like race and gender and sexuality. I did see this one kind of like men's rights influence her tweet, quote, it's shameful and sad that a hyper-promiscuous

childless woman, aging and alone with a cat has become the heroin of a feminist age. And part of me is like, side note, this person runs an organization for what they're calling hard men, like masculine, manly men. I mean, because what is, what is harder for a man to do than obsess over the dating life of a pop star on Twitter, right? Like, it's like they can't even keep their own ridiculous gender binary nonsense straight. Like, if you were, like, I don't, I don't think like. that is a paragon of traditional masculinity

caring who tailored us with this dating and here you are making you big stink about it on Twitter, you know? Right. Also, first of all, hard men. If you're going to call yourself hard men, the peak of heterosexuality. Okay. Also, okay, hyper promiscuous. Like, I'm sorry.

I remember, like, when she brought up sex for, like, the first time in one of her albums. And it was like, I think it was refugee. Like it was like way down the line like she was like again very much the face of like respectable nice white girl with her guitar you know for the longest time and it's it's weird because again she really with the feminism thing she's done like the bare minimum to you know stand up for human rights or whatever and that apparently is too much but um yeah no i that's just it's just such a weird quote i i It's such a weird quote, but like, not surprised. I also like remember, wasn't there, because I was going back to about like, I feel like people turn her and her image into like a lot, like the symbol of a lot of political stuff without it really, really doing anything. And I don't think this one I don't think was necessarily wrong, but I remember like a couple of years ago there was a lot of stuff that was coming out about people talking about her music and her sort of persona that she's created and how that relates to like white supremacy and how like she kind of inadvertently has become this symbol of white supremacy. and like there I again it's been a minute since I but I like it's really interesting to see that

that switch within a couple of years because she's dating somebody who's vaccinated I guess I don't know yeah I remember this very clearly there was a time where in white supremacist corners of the internet she was sort of the poster girl for like Naziism essentially and at the time this was like going back like several years now. At the time, she, I remember doing an episode of stuff mom never told you, talk about like blast in the past,

back when I was the host of that show with my friend Emily. And at the time, I did not, you could probably go back to the old Smenti archives and find it. I did not feel that she had done enough to like denounce that

and be like, no, sorry, Nazis. I'm not your poster girl. But I do think it speaks to what you're talking about, that she is someone that I think people project a lot of stuff onto and around. And I think that all of this like, all of these weird tweets about her being on the cover of time, I really think is an anxiety about the rise of single women voters because like a lot of her listenership and fan base is younger women. And I think that it's about anxiety around how government has failed single women voters

and what that means for the 2024 election. So we know that a lot of, of white women voted for Trump. But it's a little more complicated than that because it's really married white women specifically. Married white women are more likely to vote conservative than their single white counterparts. So I think after the last few years with like big Supreme Court decisions on things like abortion, I think that folks are rightfully starting to worry about single women as a voting bloc and what this means. But here's my thing. It really kind of goes back to the episode that we did with Julia Mazur, who was like shamed by Tucker Carlson. for just existing on the internet as a woman who is not married,

I think that all that these people have to offer younger, single women is shame and making fun of us and like the most tired jokes about cats and being alone and this and that. And like trying to scare us into marriage or invalidating our choices. Like not everybody wants to be married or partnered. And there are so many ways to have a full life that doesn't include being married. And I just think that they don't have any. to really offer younger single women. So the best they can do is try to scare them into heterosexual marriages and then hope that that proximity to men will make them vote more

conservatively. Like I don't think they have anything real to offer. It's just like, all they can do is shame you and hopefully effectively scare you into marriage, which hopefully will make you vote more conservatively. And I think Taylor Swift, particularly how popular she's been this year, I think reiterates that anxiety that like, oh, no, we really don't have anything to offer a pretty big section of the voting public. This might come back to bite us in the ass. Yeah.

Which is so funny because it's like, you just sat, like, clearly you don't understand how Swifties work because you didn't even, again, she gave you, she were in the clear. She wasn't telling anybody to go vote. Biden or do anything. Like she was doing the bare minimum telling people to go vote. Maybe not even doing that again this year. I think she like literally did it one time. But like she would have been fine. But it's like no, now you've attacked Taylor Swift. The Swifties like they don't care who you are. They're going to learn who you are now. And like they're going to start targeting you.

And the Swifties are fucking terrifying. So I would not like I do think it would be really funny if like this was what led to the downfall of like some one of at least one of these people if the swifties could do that I think that would be really beautiful and really uh poetic justice but yeah no that's that's so weird why you got to go after the cats like she has a cat I know I love cats they're great cats are great like who doesn't enjoy a cat exactly Joey thank you so much for waiting through all of this ridiculous tech news. You know, at the top of the episode, we got to know you a little bit better.

What else are you working on? What have you got going on these days? I'm so glad you asked. I recently have a show that is in the middle of coming out, what you just had episode four, released. It's called After Lives, the Lailene Flonco story. I worked with Raquel Willis,

who I think will be on the show soon. Yes. little teaser there. But it was based on her incredible reporting on transphobic violence and the epidemic of violence against trans women of color in particular. In this season, we are talking about Lately Mclonco, who was a woman who died at Rikers Island prison a couple of years back. But yeah, you should definitely check out that show.

I think it's a super important conversation to be having. I'm biased. I worked on it, but also, yes, you should definitely check that out. Episode 4 just came out. Episode 5 is coming out next week. Again, it's called Afterlives, the Laly and Planco story. And of course, as always, if you want to follow me on social media, you can find me at Pat Not Pratt.

That's P-A-T, N-O-T, P-R-A-T, Twitter, Instagram. Yeah, you should definitely check out that show. Find me on social media. And we'll throw a link to Afterlives in the show notes. Folks should definitely listen. It is such an important conversation. And thank you for bringing it to us because it's really special. And I actually have a little bit of news, which is that the other podcast that I host, IRL Online Life is Real Life, which is an original podcast for Mozilla. Yep, the Mozilla that makes the browser that we all love, Firefox. Well, we have been nominated for an Anthem Award for Responsible Technology. And it would mean, so much if folks could vote for us. If you could help celebrate this nomination by voting for IRL to win, you can go to tangoity.com slash IRL. That's t-a-n-g-O-T-I-R-L. That link will be in the show notes. Please vote for us. I don't want to get into it, but it would be really cool to win,

and then maybe Mozilla will have me back to host it again. Who knows? Would love that. So please, please, please vote for us. It means the world to meet a spotlight the voices and the stories of folks who are making technology like AI more trustworthy. And it's really also important to me to see those voices celebrated through winning an award like this. So please vote for us. Again, tangoity.com slash IRL. Thank you so much. And thank you, Joy, for being here. Thank you, listeners, for listening. Yeah, be well, and I will talk to you soon. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoody.com slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at

hello at tangoity.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoity. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tarry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why are we all so obsessed with romance? On the Radio 831 podcast, join us, Sanjana Basker and Tyler McCall, as we unpack all the trending tropes, fuzzy adaptations, book talk drama, and celebrity love stories with hot takes and sharp guests. Each episode digs into what these stories reveal about desire, fantasy, identity, and how we love now.

Listen to the Radio 831 podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA.

Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.