There Are No Girls on the Internet - On election day and after, disinformation is on the ballot

Episode Date: November 9, 2022

It’s election day in the United States. Bridget is sick with COVID and anxious about what is to come. We’re joined by Producer Mike to talk through common disinformation tactics we’re likely to see on and after election day.  SPEAKING OF VOTING, HAVE YOU VOTED FOR MOZILLA’S IRL PODCAST TO WIN A SHORTY AWARD?  TANGOTI.COM/IRL  Come to Bridget’s free interactive disinfo training with Women’s March! Wed 11/9 at 8pm: https://www.mobilize.us/womensmarch/event/540899/?referring_vol=3699693&rname=Bridget&timeslot=3786510&referring_participation=21991983&referring_data_signature=v1-47ada47474e7e192&share_medium=sms_copy_link&share_context=sms_registrationSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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There are no girls on the internet. So this is going to be a little bit of a weird episode. Just right off the bat, I should say I have COVID. So if I don't sound like my normal self, it's probably because I've spent the last few days in bed with a fever. And partly because I have COVID, I am joined by my producer and chief science officer, Michael, to just make sure that I don't say anything wildly out of pocket while I'm feeling so feverish. Michael, thank you so much for helping me out here. Yeah, happy to be part of it. You know, just keep a watchful eye, make sure everything stays on the right side of the science.

I mean, it's funny. We were talking earlier off Mike, and I was not planning on making an episode today. I partly because I am not feeling well, but also just because, like, there has been so much going on, you know, with Elon Musk buying Twitter, which I have really come to see as our largest. and perhaps most influential digital communication platform when it comes to getting real-time news. And so I guess I was just feeling a little bit strange. Here we are on the eve of election night. You and I are recording this on Monday evening. And I wasn't planning on doing an episode.

And, you know, we were talking about the election and sort of how we were thinking and where we were at. And I realized that I was actually feeling quite anxious and that I was feeling, I don't know, just a lot of feelings. you know, one of the ways that I process things is via podcasting, via having conversations with the listeners and helping myself sort out how I'm feeling. And we figured, why not bring it to the pod? So it's going to be a little bit of a different episode, but I did want to get on the mic on this election day eve. Yeah. And thank you for having me here. I am excited to process it with you. It's pretty understandable to imagine that you would feel a little anxious, unsure about

what's going to happen because it's a pretty big election and also other things happening. Yeah, it's a pretty big election. And I think I had a moment of really thinking about what's at stake for so many of us, particularly marginalized people. And as someone who has a background in things like disinformation, digital communication, media, I thought it might be a good opportunity to really have a conversation about the kinds of miss and dis and mal-information that I am sure we are going to be seeing tomorrow. We've already seen a lot of it up until the elections.

And what we're going to see in the aftermath of the elections. And I thought that might be a helpful, just sort of level set for folks and just generally talk through some of the ways that we know inaccurate, misleading content is going to be showing up in this election. And so before we start any of that, I do just want to level set. on terms. I realize that I tend to throw around a lot of terms that people maybe don't know. Maybe people do know these terms, and this is like old news. But so three kinds of inaccurate or misleading information we're going to be talking about today are misinformation, disinformation, and malinformation. Mike, I know that you know some of those terms from your work producing our series on disinformation called Disinformed about a year ago. Are you, like, do you,

Do you want me to give you the definitions of those terms just as we go forward in this episode? Yeah, well, I've been around for a little while while you've been, you know, producing these podcasts about these different types of inaccurate information. And I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on misinformation being information that is just not true, but somebody really doesn't have any malicious intent for spreading it. Disinformation I've heard is a damn lie. That's you, that's, you, okay, so you've been either popping into trainings I've done, because that's my little line about how to tell the difference between dis and misinformation.

Misinformation is misleading information. Disinformation, that's a damn lie. Somebody is trying to intentionally fuck with you by lying. Yeah, right. So I've heard that a couple of times now. From me. from you. Makes sense.

Nice and clear. Disinformation. It's a damn lie. Got it. Malinformation is kind of a new one for me. Oh my God. I'm so glad you asked. So malinform.

I guess you didn't really ask, but whatever. It was a question. Yeah. It was a statement. Malinformation, yes. Malinformation is really important. It's one that we, I guess for myself, I do a lot of trainings on misinformation, disinformation, how folks can combat it, all of that.

One that I've only recently started. adding more into the conversation is malinformation. Malinformation is information that is technically correct, but is taken out of context by somebody that probably has an agenda, right? And so it's videos where the videos are not doctored. The person in the video said that thing, but that thing is then taken out of context to make some larger point that is probably misleading. And so you can really think of it as like misinformation is, if you're anything like me, when your mom sends you, you know, things she saw on Facebook about how if you get into your car and somebody has put a dollar bill under your, under your wiper, don't touch it because that's how sex traffickers get you.

And it's a new way that sex traffickers are trying to get you by putting a dollar bill on your windshield. And it also probably has fencedol on it. And if you touch that, you're definitely going to die. My mom, God lover, doesn't know if the. these things are true or not necessarily. It just comes on her Facebook page and she's sharing it just in case. She's not doing it out of malicious intent. She's doing it because, you know, let me just share this in case it's true, right? And so misinformation, somebody is not trying to,

not necessarily trying to intentionally mislead you. Disinformation, a damn lie. They are trying to intentionally lie to you knowingly to spread chaos or confusion or fear. and malinformation is technically accurate content that is taken out of context or misrepresented to make a larger point that is inaccurate or misleading. So those are the sort of terms we're going to be throwing around in this episode when we talk about some of the things that you should definitely be on the lookout for as we go into election stay tomorrow. Well, I appreciate that.

And as the chief science officer, I appreciate that we have gone from two different types of inaccurate information to three. I mean, that feels like a 50% increase in. our understanding of these lies. Yeah, I mean, I really got a shout out Dr. Joan Donovan, friend of the show. She uses the term medium manipulation, which I think is a good one because, I don't know, I feel like disinformation is almost kind of become like a buzzword a little bit, where people are just, the definition of it has become so watered down that it's become

a little bit of a cliche. And so she likes to use the term medium manipulation, which also, counts for things that you see on Twitter to sort of get back to the roots of the fact that we're talking about a citizenry being manipulated via what they see on digital media. And so whether you're talking about misinformation, malinformation, disinformation, that is really at the heart of what we're talking about. And so I really wanted to get into some of the things to look out for as we go into our election day today. And one, I guess the first bucket is just sort of general, I guess I'm calling it sort of the generalisms. Racism. Racism.

sexism, you know, homophobia, misogyny. Essentially, the idea that because of someone's identity, that is going to impact what kind of leader they can be. That's something that we've seen so much of in this election, I'm sorry to say. And it can be kind of difficult to see. Some of it is very blatant, but some of it is like a little bit more difficult to see. But some things to look out for that I'm, we've already seen in the midterms, and we're definitely, going to be seeing today on Election Day. One, things like baselessly connecting

black candidates to crime or lawlessness. I saw a pretty, I guess I'll say horrific example of this in the North Carolina, a hotly contested race in North Carolina with a Ted Bud up against Sherry Beasley. And

in an ad that Ted Bud put out, they basically all but call her a pedophile. Because Sherry Beasley struck down a bipartisan law requiring GPS tracking for child predators, a monster. I was able to hear that ad. It's horrific. She's a monster.

She wants to like rape and kill my child. I mean, that ad definitely makes it seem that way. I mean, how many people had she personally murdered? It must have been dozens of children. You would think, right? Okay, so essentially this ad kind of blames Beasley for a decision from her time on the North Carolina Supreme Court. And they blame this decision on the, you know, horrific attack by a three-time convicted sex offender named Tori Grady.

And so what actually is going on is that back in 2019, Beasley joined a four to two majority that struck down a law requiring automatic lifetime monitoring for anyone convicted at least twice for the same offense. That decision concluded that such tracking violated the Fourth Amendment and emphasized that most states do not have any. sort of lifetime tracking or monitoring. And so essentially, you know, this is from the Carolina Journal. The case was not whether or not Grady had committed the crime. It was not whether or not he deserved forgiveness. The case was about whether anyone who served his time and was no longer even on parole or probation could have their every move tracked and monitored and recorded for the rest of their life, right? And so essentially Beasley joined a majority on this decision that, no, it is not constitutional that somebody who is not on parole, not on probation, is not in the

system in any way at this point, should have their behavior monitored for the rest of their life. And the ad really misleadingly claims that GPS tracking was instituted under a bipartisan law, quote, until Cherry Beasley struck it down, and that Beasley ruled that it violated the child predator's privacy. But that's just not true, right? There is that decision made did no such thing. If you are someone who is on parole, you absolutely can be monitored and tracked by the state. Them saying that GPS tracking has been struck down is just not true. That's just a fabrication. And so it's one of those situations where it is a little bit nuance, right? I understand what they're doing. They're completely flattening out what

actually happened in this way to make it sound very scary that, oh, Cherry Beasley, decided that a child predator should have their privacy protected and that child predator went on to attack a child in a horrific way. And it's so savvy how they are able to reframe the facts and what actually happened in this way that it's just misleading. It doesn't tell the whole truth. And I feel like it doesn't actually help North Carolina voters get a better sense of what actually happened. It just completely misrepresents what happened. Yeah, that's absolutely right. That ad is really, it's like a great textbook example of logical fallacies of, I guess, deductive reasoning. I don't know. Obviously, she was weighing in on this case that had to do with general North Carolina law and affected the entire population of North Carolina law.

and effect that the entire population of North Carolina and whoever created this ad has chosen the single one worst case scenario of what happened as a result of that decision. And that's just so disingenuous. And there's, like, if that's the criteria by which any policy is going to be judged, they will all fail. Everything will be horrible. Absolutely. And it's something that we've seen quite a bit of. I remember we definitely saw this when Katanji Brown Jackson was being confirmed as the first black woman Supreme Court Justice. But if you remember, I think it was Josh Hawley did almost the exact same thing where they were accusing Justice Jackson of being like soft on pedophiles or soft on crime because of one decision that she had made in her career. And it was like, you know, there was a whole thing where she was like, it's not my job to, you know, it's not my job to interpret like sentencing.

That's not what I do. But the way that they're able to create, I would argue, a really unfair playing field for women of color, people who are marginalized that they can't possibly live up to. And so this is like a very common tactic of people who are interested in kind of doing these coded attacks on marginalized people. who are running for public office. You mentioned that, you know, this is particularly, particularly weaponized against the marginalized people. Do you have other examples beyond Sherry Beasley? Yeah.

I mean, I think in the way that we've seen certain buzzwords be flung around to specifically black candidates, black women in particular, you know, buzzwords that are at this point essentially just dog whistles. Biden, Warnock, and Abrams are woke communist leftists who hate this country. Okay, so something that sticks out at me about this is the use of the word, the words communist and woke. As far as I know, I don't believe that Warnock, Stacey Abrams, or Joe Biden have officially endorsed communism, like a very specific thing. And I also think it's interesting how they say like, oh, woke gun laws. What does woke mean, right?

Like at this point, when someone says, oh, though their woke agenda, basically what they're meaning is that, like, that person is black. They don't give you any specific, you know, thing that they think is woke. It's just the woke agenda. And so we, I've definitely seen an uptick in this when it comes to black candidates where just like, oh, if you want woke policies, that's what they gave you. Yeah. It's, it was an interesting ad because I, I feel like the actual descriptions of the policies that Biden and Warnock and I guess Stacey Abrams, it's not really clear who the ad was against, but like the policies they were describing actually sounded pretty good like banning AR-15s. That kind of sounds like a good idea to me. And there was one about like red flag laws. Like, yeah, maybe some people, maybe there should be occasions where red flags disqualify someone from gun ownership in an intensely concentrated dense society.

Mike, it sounds like you're endorsing what we know are bogus mental health exams. Well, that's the thing. It's like the actual policies were totally reasonable sounding. And it was only like, they're woke, they're totally bogus,

they're communist, they're far radical left. It's like they had to just layer on these descriptors because the actual policies themselves, I believe, are actually popular among most of the American people. I guess I can't speak to the Georgia electorate, but I suspect most Georgians would be in favor of some sort of reasonable gun restrictions. I don't know.

Most people in most parts of the country are. I don't know Georgia in particular. I mean, anything sounds unreasonable if you say it like this. If you say it's communist. Okay, so I have one more example for you. And this is an example that kind of paints me because it's an issue that, boy, I hate to see how it's taken off. Under Gretchen Whitmer, the radicals want a drag queen in every classroom. So there's a lot going on in this ad.

One, they say that Gretchen Whitmer, who is running in Michigan, wants to put, quote, a drag queen in every classroom. First of all, I want to go to that. That's cool. And drag queen in every classroom. So first of all, that's not even something in that Gretchen Ritmer said. Michigan Democratic Attorney General Dana Nessel said that in a speech. And she was like, oh, and she said this was in June. She said that she was joking.

And it was a joke about her frustration with politicians who focus on these, quote, wedge issues that divide us, right? And so she was joking back to. Let's just try to get a teacher in every classroom, you know. We don't have the funding for drag queens in there. Have you seen the makeup, the outfits, the heels? Like, it's a lot of money to put a drag queen in a classroom. Yeah, we cannot afford that.

Let's just focus on teachers. So this is not even something that Gretchen Whitmer says. And yet in this attack ad, it attributes that quote that she never said to her. And even the person who did say it says they were just joking and that line was taken out of context. But even beyond that, it's clear that this ad is really trafficking and identity-based attacks, right? that a vote for Gretchen Whitmere is a vote for someone who wants to, quote, indoctrinate our kids with gender theory. And it's really just more of what we've seen of attacks and further criminalization on trans youth in schools,

which I, you know, I hate that it has become a winning strategy for extremists to further marginalize a group that is already so marginalized, our fucking babies, our youth. Yeah. And so not only does this ad include a completely incorrect attack on Gretchen Whitmer, attributing something that she never said to her, but it also was just a further attack on trans youth and anybody who would dare to support trans youth or be an ally to trans youth. And it's meant to, it's not just an attack on them. I think it's meant to scare parents.

It's meant to scare parents that people like Gretchen Whitmer who ostensibly want to be allies to trans women, you, trans youth or support trans youth in schools, are coming to pervert and attack your children and you, parents, should be afraid. And it's so clear to me who, like, what this ad is meant to do. They certainly are not talking to the parents of trans youth. You know, they are trying to hit parents of kids who are not trans against trans youth. And I think it's just disgusting. And so when we talk about sort of the kinds of isms in the attacks that I know that we're going to see more of on election day today that we've already seen in the lead up to the election. This is exactly what I mean. Yeah, it's like an ignorance-based attack, right? Like it attacks Gretchen Whitmer for

wanting to push sex and gender theory on children, but then also says boys and girls are different. I know the difference. It's like, well, how do you know? Like, right? Like, maybe there's some theory behind the difference. Like, why is it so taboo to even talk about gender? If it's, like, so crucial to you that this dichotomous gender exists, why is the very idea that somebody might, like, talk about it and, you know, apply some evidence to inform theories of what it is? Why is that so deeply threatening?

Exactly. And I mean, lady, maybe you're not a doctor and maybe you should shut the fuck up. Like, that's like, whatever, like, whatever I hear that, I'm just like, maybe you don't know anybody who is trans. Maybe you don't have any kind of educational background or expertise in this. Maybe you have no idea what you're talking about and you should just stop talking about it. Like, I'm to the point on this now where I'm like, why are you positing, like, why are you one fucking television talking about trans youth? Like, like, what do you even know about it? Right.

Like, why are you attacking the very idea of talking about it, investigating it, understanding what gender is, it's revealing. What's so funny, you're right on the money, what's so funny is that it's like in that ad, she's like, I don't think that we should be talking to our kids about gender, but I do believe that boys and girls are different, and that's very important. And that's very important to me. Yeah. So which is it?

Which is it? Right. Either gender is this important thing or it's not an important thing. It's obviously an important thing. Maybe we should teach kids about it. Exactly. Yeah. But again, we digress.

Let's stay focused on the election what we're going to be seeing on election day. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert. Smigel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and

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So another topic that, frankly, I, I, I, I, I, I, I guess I feel comfortable saying should not be, quote, divisive. I don't think that just the existence of trans youth trying to live their lives should be divisive, but here we are. Another topic that I know that we're going to be seeing a lot of disinformation and misinformation and misinformation and malinformation around is abortion. We have already seen incumbents who are up for the election really backtracking on their records on abortion. I can absolutely understand why they are very invested in misrepresenting where they actually stood when it comes to Roe and protecting abortion rights

because it's incredibly, their stances are incredibly unpopular, right? So like we've seen folks who are running for re-election talk about how like, oh, well, you know, it really just sent the issue back to the states, things like that, trying to paint people who are interested in invested in protecting abortion rights, trying to paint us as the extremists.

We've seen candidates who are supportive of abortion access being accused of, quote, partial birth abortions or, quote, late-term abortions, which I always say this. Those are not real terms. They are not medical terms. They are terms that are completely made up by anti-abortion extremists. So in Oregon, Oregon right to life sent mailers making claims about what they call, quote, late-term abortions in Oregon. There are a flyer that they sent out attacked Democratic candidate for the Senate Mark Meek,

who has been endorsed by Planned Parenthood. The flyer has a picture of a baby, and it says, babies have to watch their backs. Radical Mark Meek wants to allow late-term abortions right up until the moment of birth at taxpayer expense. Everything about that is incorrect. Like, nothing in that statement is true. Late-term abortions isn't a thing. That's not a real medical phrase.

I feel like Pete Buttigieg nailed. this when he went on TV a while ago, and he pointed out that like, when you talk about somebody who's having an abortion at that period, it's because they intended to carry it to term, and something terrible has happened. Nobody is choosing to terminate their pregnancy at a late state like that. Yeah, you are a thousand percent correct. And the fact that this mailer, frames it as if Mark Meek endorses that. He's like, oh, I think that, you know, you should be able to, yeah, it's not happening. And I understand what they're doing. It makes, it makes someone who maybe doesn't know much about, like, if you're like a low information voter on the issue,

you might not have thought about the fact that like somebody having to terminate a pregnancy at the moment of birth, like what that, what the circumstances would actually be around that? Maybe you haven't thought about it. They're making it seem as though doctors are essentially delivering babies and then killing them. Like out of the vagina into the garbage. Correct. So I think that, you know, the organ rights who put together these mailers are just banking on people not really thinking through what the circumstances would actually be for someone who would need to terminate a pregnancy right up to the moment of birth. And that they're banking on them thinking, oh, that person is, you know, they're banking on them having an intensely negative reaction.

And it just makes me sad because, like, where is the empathy? Where is the empathy for someone who would actually be in that situation? When it comes to abortion disinformation ahead of the midterms and in the midterms, the thing that gets me is that we've allowed both candidates, elected officials, and in some cases are media, not, you know, fringe media. I mean like mainstream media outlets to frame abortion as this divisive issue where, you know, oh, we have to do both sides because, you know, people disagree when the reality is that 80% of Americans are supportive of abortion access. There is not a pocket of America anywhere where the majority of people are anti-abortion, even in deep red states. It is not a divisive issue.

and the people who are against a protecting abortion access, they are the extremists. They are the ones who are widely out of step with the will of the majority of the people. And so that's why you see elected officials having to really lie about their stances on this because they know that those stances are wildly unpopular. They know that most people do not agree with those stances

and that the only way that they can even talk about them in a way that would not have them like, run out of office is to lie and to misrepresent them. And so I can understand why we see these folks backtracking on their record saying like, oh, we're just leaving up to the States. Because if they were to say the truth, which is that like we're attacking abortion access, they know that that's not what people want. That is not what Americans want. It is not a divisive issue. Whoever decided to frame it that way really pulled a snow job on all of us because it's just not. It's just not true. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. And I think the math changed

underneath them in a really big way where their position has always been unpopular, right? Like most Americans, I believe since the beginning of America until now, have been supportive of abortion rights and access to abortion. Most people support it. And so, like, people who starting in the 70s decided that it was going to be a winning wedge issue for them, they've always had that difficult challenge of trying to, sell an unpopular opinion. And it worked for them because it was intensely motivating to the subset of the population who like really intensely cared. And the majority of the voting populace

did not have the same intense feelings. And now following the Dobbs decision, they suddenly realize that they can't just continue to speak to this small group in these impassioned over-the-top ways to like rile them up because they realize that a much wider segment of the population is now listening and that wider segment of the population wants abortion access that's something that it's just always been a given in society for like thousands of years. And it's just this recent cadre of right-wing assholes who realized that they could, like, win some elections by pretending like it's some radical position, which it obviously isn't. Yeah.

People need to have abortions. It's just the, it's just, yeah. We live in a society. People need to have abortions. I'm sorry that people don't like it, but, like, that's what it is. People need to have abortions. People are going to have abortions. People been having abortions.

Just let people sort out their own shit. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.

Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast. radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartadvertising.com. That's iHeartadvertising.com. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships.

I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month,

tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Let's get right back into it. So let's talk more about some of the miss and disinformation. I know we're going to be seeing today on Election Day about voting more generally. One is just sort of spreading fear, particularly fear to black and brown folks and marginalized voters. You know, every, election year we see, you know, oh, people are being arrested at the polls. Oh, a picture that purports to show ICE agents doing arrests of undocumented folks at the polls. Oh, I always see the little thing that's like, oh, they're checking for outstanding warrants or unpaid child support payments at the polls. Clearly, these are tactics meant to scare black and brown voters. And they're so,

savvy because they're clearly tactics that play into the very rightful fear and baggage and trauma that black and brown folks have around being criminalized in the United States. And so what's so fucked up is that

oftentimes with disinformation and misinformation, it is, the reason why it works is because it, there's a grain of truth to it. There is one aspect to it that is accurate. And that one aspect is sort of blown out of proportion or like misrepresented. And so it makes me so sad because in reality,

we know there are states where black and brown voters are being criminalized, right? In Florida, folks with felonies on their records who were told that, who thought that they could vote, went to register to vote, and then the police showed up at their door for voter fraud. Right. And so we know that that happened. And we know that that is clearly meant to, to create a climate where folks who might have felonies on their records, folks who have served their time, paid their death in society, are unclear on what's happening and are maybe just afraid. And so I have to give it to DeSantis that it is such a savvy move

to put fear in the hearts of people who are just trying to exercise their civic duty of voting. And I mean, if you were someone who had a felony on your record and you weren't sure whether or not. not you could vote, you've seen these viral videos of folks, black and brown folks who thought they could vote, were told they could vote, were given the paperwork to vote, and then we're arrested. I could understand why that would keep you from voting. I could understand why that would keep you from the polls. And it's sad to me that when I talk about sort of the lies around black voters being criminalized, that folks like DeSantis have gone out of their way to make sure

that that continues to be based in reality, to make sure that that continues to have that bit of truth. And we really deserve so much better than leaders who are going to exploit our traumas and baggage and anxieties as marginalized people living in this country that are so real for us. But this is what we have. Yeah, it's so disgusting. thing and

sad to see people's right to vote attacked and like you said there's like a germ of truth in all successful disinformation

campaigns and there's more than a germ of truth in the idea that like black and brown people have not had the easiest time voting in the United States right? Like there's definitely like the right to vote was just categorically denied to black people

for the first hundred so years of the United States and ever since then it's been a fight it's a constant fight it's a fight in this election in 2022 and it's just so dispiriting to me and I can only imagine it's even more dispiriting into others but it's like this is the core part of what it means to be like a participating citizen in a republic is like you get to vote.

You get to have a say in who leads the county highway department or like the state DOT or like whatever or like the governorship or the presidency or like passes the laws in Congress. You get to have a say. All the citizens get to have a vote. And to attack that and undermine it is so. antithetical to the the whole enterprise. And I guess it's like not surprising because they're so disingenuous and so hypocritical. But it, and it's almost like it feels expected at this point.

Like, oh, well, of course Republicans are going to try to suppress the vote of like black and brown people and young people. Like that's just like what they do. But like it's really like. cuts to the core of American democracy being at risk. Well, that's, I, that's one of the reasons why I even wanted to have, do this episode tonight, because I think I was just coming to terms with the weight of that feeling, of that, it feels, I don't, and maybe this is going to sound Pollyanna-ish, only in the last few, years have I come to realize how tenuous and fragile democracy is. And, you know, seeing these,

polls about how little, and who knows about polls, but I saw a couple of polls that were like, people are interested in economic issues and they're not interested in, like, protecting our democracy. And speaking just for myself, I don't know how anybody doesn't see those two things as linked. I don't know how anybody doesn't see, like, just the ability to, you know, to be a person who is free to try to make a better life for themselves, free to try to start a family on their terms when they say, how they say, free to raise that family safely in a safe community with access to, you know, accessible health care and food.

Like, I don't see how, like, to me, those things are, the Venn diagram is a circle, that democracy in living in a, and living in a democratic state also means, is also connected to being able to be free to exercise your democratic will and fucking raise your family without fear of, yeah, just being able to raise your family. I see those things, I mean, like, I feel like I'm like spitting out talking about it,

but reading polls that are like, oh, people don't care about abortion. They care about putting food on the table, and economic issues. People don't care about democracy. They care about putting gas in their car. I see those things as all the same to me. If I don't embody autonomy and people don't see that as part and parcel to economic freedom, what are we doing? If I'm not able to go vote free of lies and legit violence, political violence, what are we doing? And so I see that like all these ways that the fabric of what it means to live in a healthy functioning democracy is being so pulled apart.

And I see all the little threads. And it scares me. I'm scared. I mean, I'm usually, I usually try to be like optimistic and hopeful on the show. And generally I am, but I am scared. And I hate that, I mean, I'm, you know me. I'm not someone who is like very interested in electoral politics as the end all be all. But I mean, I'm, I'm, you know me. I'm, I'm not someone who is like, very interested in electoral politics as the end-all be-all. But how the fuck did we get here where the only path to liberation is like, at this point,

all we can do is fucking vote. Like, if it's voting for the lesser of two evils, do what you got to do? I want so much better for us. But it's, do you know what I'm saying? Like, it feels scary. It feels like we are, it feels like something has been pulled apart

and we're trying to scotch tape it back together. It is scary times. I wish I had some nice words to make it less scary. Yeah, it's tenuous. It's weird. Make it all better, Mike. You know, and on the eve of this election, you know, I just like, there's a Winston Churchill quote that I think about all the time about how democracy is the absolute worst form of government except for all the other. And it's actually pretty good. It's pretty good. And I think it's accurate.

It's so stupid. We're stuck in this union with all these imbeciles who hate the idea of unionism. And yet here we are. It's difficult. I don't know that there's an answer. I think we're all just like trying to get through it as best we can. People listening are like, Why did I tune into this?

Now I'm bummed out. Hey, you asked me to be on this episode. You knew the risks. I know. I know. I know. If I want to bum everybody out, let's bring Michael Amato onto the podcast.

All I see are risks. No, it'll be fine. Everything's going to be fine. Well, let's, I do want to talk about, so it's election day. I do want to just sort of talk about what we are likely to see on election day and beyond. That's why people tuned into this. episode. Let's get to that. I know. I'm so, y'all, I have COVID. I'm sorry. Let's take a quick break.

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You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life. makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to

change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected.

We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown. from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So if you've been listening to There No Girls on the Internet for a while,

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And we are back just talking about some things to look out for in terms of dis and miss and malinformation on and after election day. And a big thing that we really have to talk about on election day and after election day is people saying that because it's taking a long time to count votes, that that is somehow evidence of voter fraud or a stolen election. Now, I've already seen a lot of this happening so far. And I need to be really clear, it has always taken. a long time to count votes in elections.

Because of things like the increased use of mail-in ballots and early voting, in some places, counting votes cannot even start before polls close thanks to Republican legislation. So in a lot of legislatures, it is very much by design that it takes a little bit of time to count the votes. And people who say this, I would argue that they're actually just lying. Because anybody who has worked in politics, political media, news media for a few years, they know that it is totally normal for it to take a while for all the ballots to be counted and to have a definitive winner.

That is not a surprise. If you're somebody who hasn't followed a lot of elections or hasn't followed a lot of this very closely, that's completely fine. You might not know. But the people who go on Fox News and say that it's out of the ordinary, that it takes a little while to count votes, they know that's not true and they're deliberately lying. In this election, we already know that we're going to see contested elections and contested races, we are going to see it taking a little bit of time to count

votes in certain places in certain races because of things like mail-in ballots. Because of that, like, weird nebulous time, that is the kind of time where, like, bad actors can really run wild. You're going to see a lot of claims about voter fraud or election fraud. And I just need to be, like super clear, there is no widespread voter fraud in the United States. End of sentence. There might be voting irregularities. Sure, perhaps. Those are never to the scale to actually impact an election. It just does not happen. And so I hate, as much as I hate Trump and his presidency, something that I cannot believe that he actually got into the lexicon that stuck was this idea of like, oh, count every legal vote. Like I remember when Ivanka Trump tweeted that like, this shouldn't be controversial.

Count every legal vote. It's so insidious how it makes it seem as though there are lots of. So if you're saying count every legal vote, yeah, it sounds totally reasonable when you first say it or when you first hear it. but you're making it seem like there are lots of illegal votes. And that's not true. So it's already kind of grounded in a situation that is not happening. And so I know that we're going to see, we've already seen so many claims about like, oh, it doesn't take a long time to count votes. Like there are something funny is going around.

Don't, I know that you're going to see it. I've already seen some of it. I hate that this has become part of it. our national understanding of the voting process because it's just not, it's just not reflective of reality. There is no widespread voter fraud

in the United States. If anybody was going to find it, it would have been Trump in fucking 2020 and he didn't fucking find it. So there's just not any there. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. We're going to see so many claims

about voter fraud, uh, people, like making cases to various courts. It's just these people have had the past two years to just be like stroking their hard-ons and thinking about how they're going to like yell voter fraud this time around.

And so they're going to be out there. They're going to be doing it. Yeah, they're going to be doing it everywhere that they possibly can. They're probably going to burn Arizona to the ground and it'll immediately burn because they have no water anymore. It's going to be everywhere, though. It's going to be everywhere.

And that's kind of my point of making this episode is that you were talking about burning Arizona to the ground. And I know you're kidding, but... Well, to be clear, I suggested that the Arizonans were going to burn it to the ground. I was not suggesting that anyone else go there and burn it to the ground. It was a lament, not a threat. Oh, I shouldn't go to Arizona and burn a town. You should not. No, there are no threats. I'm not making any threats to Arizona.

Let me cancel my flight here. You know, I'm kidding. I'm just concerned for their well-being based on some of the people inside the house. Well, so, you know, we're kidding, but we are in this very weird time where shit is just weird. You know, election officials have been warning for the last few days of election-related violence on election day and after. which is scary and makes me so sad that that's just where we're at. Conspiracy theories about stolen elections and voter fraud have translated to extremist groups getting trained to become, quote, poll watchers, which basically means they just harass and intimidate voters and poll workers at the polls. Elon Musk owns Twitter. They've got a new pay $8 to get verified verification process rolling out. stuff is just weird.

And so I think in this moment where things feel weird, tenuous, scary, like, all of the things, the question is like, what can we do? And I would say, I mean, this is the spiel I always give, but one, whatever you do, don't share or amplify misinformation, even if you're trying to like debunk it, make a joke of it, point out, like, look at this incorrect information. If you're on a platform where you can report it, report it. But nine times out of ten, if you engage with incorrect information, you're just going to help it spread. That's true for pretty much anything.

And so if you see something that is extremist or like a really bad tweet, don't engage with it. Don't share things just in case. We had an interesting situation during early vote where somebody shared that, like, oh, I heard from a friend that if you were ballot has writing on it, then like a signature on it, then it's going to be voided. And the election, that the county election official had to post on Facebook saying, actually, we are legally required to sign each ballot. And so, like, if we sign it, that's, like, that's actually required of us. And so don't share things, even if you're sharing them just in case, if you cannot verify that they're correct. And instead, focus on sharing positive, accurate content about

the election, the candidates, the, you know, issues and the causes that you're that are motivating you to vote, it is going to be so much better if you focus your time on spreading that kind of information that is accurate and timely and positive and helpful rather than engaging with information that is not true. And also, if you want a little extra, you can come to a training that I am doing with the organization Women's March. It is virtual. It is on Zoom. It is the Wednesday after election day. It is free. I would love to hang out with y'all there and talk disinformation and the election.

I will put the information to join in the show notes. But yeah, you want a little, if you're going to be like me on Wednesday, probably feeling a little anxious, come hang out with me on Zoom on Wednesday evening. Hopefully we're feeling good on Wednesday. I mean, hopefully I won't be feeling like feverish with COVID, but also hopefully I'll be feeling better. And then just a couple of like random things I want to throw out there. As our digital communications platforms like Twitter become more and more interesting, we'll say. Now, and given that like all the stuff is happening with Twitter, while an election is happening, digital hygiene is going to be more important than ever. So if you're listening to this, please, please, please turn on two-factories.

identification. It is a small step that you can take to protect yourself as this like verification stuff rolls out. We don't know how it's going to be. I don't really have any insight on how it's going to work. All I know is I would not be tweeting if I did not have two-factor authentication. So please enable it. It's such a weird. It's so weird to even talk about it because this is such uncharted territory. Usually I would say like, oh, check to see if there's a verified checkmark, but I don't know if that's great advice anymore for Twitter. So just do, if you're going to be sharing stuff on social media about the election, in terms of results and races, just check before you share.

I have been fooled before and I do this for a living. They get the best of us. Just make sure that you're checking. And just generally, stay calm. You know, like, let's take comfort in each other. I know things are weird right now. You might be feeling it. I'm definitely feeling it.

You know, rushing to share things on social media doesn't help anybody take a minute, take a beat, check your sources. Let's just try to lean into the comfort of the collective that we all have together. And I guess I would end by saying, like, this episode is weird. I feel weird. I have COVID also. But, you know, I just want to say, like, we deserve a functioning, healthy democracy. We deserve a healthy media ecosystem.

We deserve to have platforms that amplify accurate, honest, timely, helpful information and not extremism and lies. We deserve to have leaders running those platforms who are not complete man-children who are transparently looking for sycophants and adoration and lashing out at any criticism they get, even though they're really embarrassing and super easy to make fun of. and they let Azealia Banks live in their house for a while, and that didn't turn out well because they're not smart people, and they are really invested in people thinking and they're really smart, even though they're not. Talking about Elon Musk. We deserve better.

We deserve better. It's all I'm saying is like, I hate that we're in a situation where we have to, like, be working so hard at creating things that we deserve for ourselves, frankly. You know, we deserve better, and I want better for us. but I guess this is my plea for voting, you know, please vote. Why would people not vote? Like, why would somebody not vote?

Because there is an entire well-moneyed, effective machine invested in telling people that all parties are the same. Your vote doesn't matter. No parties looking out for you. They are invested in having everybody just check out of, of the democratic system, just check out of voting. And so I don't shame people who don't vote because I know there is like an entire well-moneyed system

invested in you being like, it doesn't matter, both parties are the same, it's so much noise, I say out of politics, who gives a shit? But there's so much at stake that even if you feel that way, just do it as a personal favor for me, please, at this point. Fair. All right, well, thank you, Bridget, for taking the time to take us all, through this little list of what to expect from the election returns tomorrow.

I know you got COVID. I hope you rest up after recording this. I know that I fought tooth and nail to prevent you from having to record this, but the executives at Iheart were like, we need Richard to record an episode for the election. So thank you for doing it. No, this was all voluntary. And we're going to have to do a heavy edit on this because I feel like I sound ridiculous.

No. Well, thanks for inviting me on. Thank you listeners for listening. Yeah, Bridget, thanks for doing the thing. Take us out. Thanks for being here, Mike. And thanks to all of you for listening. Oh, I hope this episode doesn't sound awful.

I'm sorry in advance. Sorry for making you listen to this. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.

Tarry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, write and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends.

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