There Are No Girls on the Internet - #OscarsSoWhite with April Reign and Dr. Jon Paul

Episode Date: March 17, 2023

In this bonus Twitter Spaces conversation, Bridget is joined by #OscarsSoWhite creator April Reign and Dr. Jon Paul, screenwriter and co-host of BFF: Black, Fat, Femme podcast to discuss how marginalized creators are still celebrating our creativity even within industries that don’t always see it. How #OscarsSoWhite changed the Academy Awards: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64883399 LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE TO DR. JON’S PODCAST: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bff-black-fat-femme/id1631198874 Opinion: Black Oscar Snubs Say More About the Industry Than It Does Black Creators: https://www.bet.com/article/sj85cv/black-oscar-snubs-say-more-about-the-industry-than-it-does-black-creatorsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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844-844-I-Hart. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. There are no girls on the internet. It's still on hiatus to take a little break in between seasons, but we're coming back soon. But in the meantime, I had to get on the mic to talk about the Oscars. It has been all I can talk about and think about this whole week.

Literally to the point where my friends are like, please stop talking about the Oscars. Don't you have a podcast? Couldn't you talk about it there? So that's what I'm doing. So by now, if you watch the Oscars, you probably know that Michelle Yo made history as the first Asian woman to win best actress at the Oscars. and the second woman of color to win best actress at the Oscars since Hallie Berry back in 2002. For her iconic film, everything, everywhere all at once. Now, celebrating these kinds of wins is always a little bit bittersweet for me,

because on the one hand, it's important to acknowledge these historic achievements, but on the other hand, I'm like, it's 2023. What took you all so long? You know, why are we celebrating historic firsts in 2023? It's complicated. So I joined the iconic April Rain, creator of the viral hashtag turned movement, Oscar So White, and Dr. John Paul, screenwriter, and co-host of the IHeart Radio groundbreaking podcast, BFF, Black, Fat, and Fem, for our Twitter spaces about how marginalized creators are still celebrating our brilliance and creativity, even when we're in industries that don't always recognize it with us.

Y'all, this is actually my very first ever spaces I have ever moderated. So, you know, it's going to go great. It's going to be fantastic. Thank you all for joining us today. My name is Bridget Todd. I am the director of public communications with Ultraviolet, a national gender justice organization, and the creator and host of IHeart Radio's Tech and Culture podcast. There are no girls on the internet.

And like a lot of y'all, I just watched the Oscars. I have a lot to say. This year's Oscars, you know, there were some historic wins. but unfortunately, as we're pretty used to, some pretty big snubs as well. And instead of having that same old conversation about why Hollywood keeps overlooking us, we really wanted to take this opportunity to flip the script a little bit and say, you know, we are here, we are brilliant, you make good work. And if the powers that be don't recognize that, it is on them and not us.

And to do that, I am joined by an iconic duo that I cannot wait to introduce. April Rain. You might know April Rain as the creator of the online movement, Oscar So White, and Screenwriter and All-W-W-W-W-W-W-Wood Screenwriter Badass. Dr. John Paul, thank you both so much for being here today. Thank you for having us. Very excited to be here on spaces with you. Yeah, same. I'm really happy to be in such good spaces with good people. So this is going to be a really good time. So I would love to get started by both of you just sort of quickly introducing yourself and telling us your connection to Hollywood for folks that might not know or to the entertainment industry for folks that might not know. I guess I'll go first.

As you mentioned, Bridget, I created Oscar So White in January of 2015. Before that time, I had no nexus to the entertainment industry except that I loved TV and film and stage. So I was an avid consumer of all of that. And since Oscar So White, I've become an equity and inclusion consultant in the entertainment industry and have been working in this capacity for eight years now. Awesome. I guess I'll follow that by saying kind of the same thing. I am an educator by trade. Folks see Dr. John Paul, they usually ask, are you really a doctor?

Yes, I have by Dr. Degree. I started... Let him know. Yeah, I do have a doctor's degree and educational justice. It was very, very... A lot of my work and a lot of the stuff that I started tweeting slash writing about

happened right around the time that we started seeing stuff around Oscar Grant and a lot of his... Basically anything and everything that was happening around in justice between 2014 and 2016. And so with that being said, a lot of...

When Moonlight came out in 2015, I got tapped on a shoulder after writing this very long thread about the ways that black queer folks are treated in television and films and the ways our stories are not shown. And that led me to getting opportunities to write for MTV and all these other different places. The Root, Blavity, you name it. I've written there pretty much. And so now, kind of like April, I get pulled in to have very, there are a lot of companies and organizations that pull me in and say, hey, we really want to do things well in entertainment,

specifically around queer LGBTQ black stories. And usually I am the one in the room helping to make sure those stories get told. So that's me in a nutshell. I'm so grateful for both of you and your voices and your presence in the space. April, I want to come back to you. You know, back in 2015, you were calling out how white the Oscars were with the iconic tweet, quote, Oscar's So White, they asked to touch my hair and a movement was born.

I know that Spike Lee gave you a knot for creating the conditions for him doing his first Oscar with Black Klansman. What does it like to be the creator of a movement that started on social media and one that literally changed Hollywood? And I guess a follow-up question would be, how much do you think has changed since you first started Oscar So White back in 2015? That's a lot. I don't take credit for any of the things that you mentioned. And honestly, you know, I think that I was in the right place at the right time saying the right things. But I honestly wasn't saying anything new. There have been people decades before me saying the same thing in a different way that, you know, we need more representation in entertainment both in front of and behind the camera. You know, I think that now still a lot more needs to be done. You know, as you mentioned, Bridget in the opening,

that we have had some historic wins since, you know, and created Oscar So White in 2015, but there's so much work that still needs to be done. And I would honestly love to shift the conversation from the Oscars and other awards, which happened at the very end of a film's life and go back to the beginning and talk about how important it is to have, as Dr. John mentioned, the right people in the room from the very beginning. Who is telling the stories and whose stories are being told are the most important questions we can ask, not who is being nominated. Because if the right stories aren't being made,

then no, you're not going to get nominations because the work just isn't there. Dr. John, can you relate to what April is saying? Yeah, I think that that's part of the reason why, I mean, I know for me watching television and what, I mean, I always, so I tweeted this yesterday before the Oscars, the tweet, you know, that they showed Viola women the Emmy and she said basically in so, and I don't know the verbatim what she said, but she said, you can't win an Emmy for roles that are not there. And I think that's been the thing that's been so frustrating, right? So we're looking at a, we're looking at, and I say all oppression is, cyclical and it's all connected, but I think that's been my biggest frustration. We're critiqued for not, we get people, oh, well, you're mad that you didn't win. Well, no, it's more than that. It's the idea that we're not even given a chance to win. And when we do get a chance to win, there's so little room for opportunity for us to win that, you know, that it's, it's just, it's really interesting. I wrote a whole bunch of thoughts down and it's funny because I'm

trying not to like go off on this long tangent of how frustrated I am. But I think my biggest thing is with the industry, kind of going back to April's point, you know, there are so many folks that are looking at us as us being angry and saying, well, you're just upset. You should be happy that you're even recognized. And it's like, no, we shouldn't be happy for one or two pieces of breadcrums that the industry is throwing at us. That's what it feels like at this point, that folks are throwing us breadcrumbs and saying, here, just be happy you have something to eat, you know? So. Absolutely. Dr. John, I mean, this space is. kind of came from a place of frustration that I really saw beautifully echoed in your piece for a BET called Black Oscar snubs say more about the industry that does about Black creators. One of my favorite lines from that piece I'll read right now, admittedly, while much of the conversation around the Academy not nominating Black films has grown a bit stale, along with conversations about Black people needing to start their own, what folks often fail to

explore is what these snubs really say about the industry as a whole. Yes, while it might sting that we continue to be overlooked, we have to remember that our stories and creativity being overlooked has more about the academy and its voters than it would ever say about us. And I guess my first question is, what do you think it says about about the academy and the voters? And just a question for both of you, like, how do we shift the conversation? How do we have a different conversation? That's not the same conversation we have every award season that's like, oh, they're not seeing us, we're overlooked, we're being snubbed. And that is really grounded in the fact that we make dope we make dope shit. And if people can't see that, that is on them and not on us.

Yeah. If I can't before, you know, Queen April rose, I call her Queen April. Before April goes, I did want to say that one of the notes that I made last night was, and I said I was going to save it for this space because oftentimes tweets can get lost in translation. And so I wanted to be able to say what was on my mind, but also be able to kind of back it by what I mean by. And I said, you know, what I wrote down is, is I keep thinking about why blackface. films and shows never get to sweep award shows. And honestly, it's just a way to keep black creators and creatives humble and leveled. And I think that's the thing that I want us to really kind of like think about, right?

Why have we like, even when Black Panther came out, even with all of the money Black Panther made, even with all that it did to kind of shake and change the way we think about television or even film, right? There were only a few awards that were given to the folks who were connected to Black Panther. And I think that there are two things that are at play. I said the industry not wanting black creators are people to feel too powerful and to make sure that we remember that what our place is is not only in just the industry, but the world, right?

The idea that if we have to acknowledge that black creators make dope shit and that it's going to make stuff that's going to be bigger than we could ever make, then you are ultimately saying that I have to show up and I actually have to, like, do the work and work harder. And to acknowledge that we are talented, even with all the hoops they put us, through means we are so remarkably powerful, something that no one, I would say no white creator ever wants to say to us. They never want to admit that black people are the shit. And so I think that that's the thing that I was really trying to get out in this piece, right? The notion is it's not just about us not winning. It's the opportunities not being given to us

to win. It's because they never want to have to acknowledge that what we could ever do was greater than what they could ever conceive. Yeah, I'm not even trying to follow, Dr. I just kept my mic on. Yeah, I think, you know, there's been a longstanding question about validation, right, and seeking validation from white sources. And so since I created Oscar so white, I've heard the pushback, why do we even care, you know? Why should we, you know, even be looking to the white folks to give us a handout or yada, yada,

and all that? And there is some truth to that. I absolutely understand that argument, which is why I think we need to remember that there are places where we are validated by our own, right? There's the Alma Awards, the GLAD Awards, the NAACP Awards, who all focus on marginalized communities and the recognition that they deserve. With respect to the Oscars, I think it can be both and, right? We want respect and validation from our peers within our community, but we also deserve validation from the industry as a whole. We can absolutely have the conversation about if the Oscars should be considered the pinnacle in film awards, in part because of who the voting membership is, in part because they haven't translated the, an award win or even a nomination isn't translatable for most, especially people of color,

into increased opportunities. There's a long list of a reason why maybe the Oscars shouldn't be seen as the end all and be all. But as of right now, for better or worse, the Oscars are considered the pinnacle, right? And regardless of whether you are a fried cook at McDonald's or a CEO of a Fortune 100 corporation, you want to be recognized by people within your industry. That matters, right? There's a reason why we talk about the fact that Beyonce still hasn't won the album of the year Grammy. It's the same type of thing. Even though we know that those particular legacy institutions don't deserve our creativity, it is more a question of being recognized by what is,

considered to be the pinnacle in your particular industry. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

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And I think that you really drill into one of the reasons why when people are like, oh, just make your own awards, it's really a yes and, right? Like, I do think that we need to, you know, be excited about all of the different awards that are out there that recognize marginalized talent. But also, it's normal to want to be recognized by industry standards. And so the conversation really could be like, well, should the Oscars be the end-all, be-all of what is considered the standard. the industry, that is, I mean, like, for better or for worse, that is what the situation is

right now. And so saying, like, oh, make your own award show, just really fall short and doesn't really capture what is actually happening and what folks are actually dealing with. Well, I think that's right. And also, the people that say that are the same folks that say that they don't see race. And why should we be so concerned? And why do we need to have Black History Month? We need to have, you know, one history. You know, we just need to celebrate our similarities and whatever. Okay. But if that's true, then why is it that when we, you know, leave you all to your own

devices, you say things like, well, I couldn't pronounce Lupida and Yongo. And so I didn't even watch 12 years a slave, much less vote for her, for, you know, best actress or best supporting actress, right? When left to their own devices, the same folks who say that they don't see race, they don't see color, and they don't understand why we need to have our own special thing, aren't interested in recognizing our excellence within their own bodies. And so that's why it's important that we ensure that we have these other organizations that are just as important that celebrate us. Yeah. And if I can add to that, I think the other thing that I really want folks to get in all that we're saying,

and I hear us kind of saying we are all on the same wavelength, but I think the bigger thing for me is it's not just about the validation. It's the idea of knowing how much it took for us to get to the Oscars. Like the thought of how much it takes for, like, even for me as a black writer, right, I'm still pre-WGA and I'm still trying to break in and I'm still trying to get an opportunity. And I've done a lot of, excuse me, I've done a lot of shit in the last eight years. And I'm still fighting to get in, right? And so for me to get to the Oscars or for me to get to the Emmys, that's validating me as a black queer creator and saying you went through all of that and you created

this amazing thing for so many people who saw themselves. And now we want to give you the validation you deserve by saying you did that even when you had nothing. Right. And so I think that, you know, the thing that really pains me in this conversation when we talk about the Oscars, it's not about losing, right? It's really knowing that there are so many black, brown, queer, non-binary, people who are pouring their hearts into the work that they're doing. And it's basically being snubbed with a simple, it's not good enough. Or there's not that many people who can relate. And it's like, well, if you're not giving it the space or the opportunity or the grace for folks to be able to connect to it, then how is it going to ever change the system

that it's meant to live in, you know? Absolutely. And like, not to go off on a, I know I'm a moderator, but not to go off on a tangent, but I see that time and time again when black stories, brown stories, queer stories, trans stories are not really given that space to grow. Like, they'll get a season on Netflix and then they'll get pulled. And then it'll be like, Oh, well, why didn't it do better? And it's like, well, you didn't really support it. You didn't really give it a chance to grow. And when somebody else comes and wants to tell their black story or their queer story or their trend story,

they're going to look and say, oh, well, this one, it only lasted for a season, without actually including the fact that, like, well, we didn't really support it and we didn't, you know, we didn't really give a chance to breathe or grow. Yep. And that's really, that's an issue that we don't talk about enough. So a TV studio or a movie studio will put out a show that is quote unquote diverse or whatever, you know, whatever that means to them, right? And then, but they don't support the show or the film.

And then they're like, oh, we can't figure out why it didn't work, but we're never going to try that again. You know, so famously, for example, Ava DuVernay said that the distribution company for her film Selma in 2014 did not send out the screeners. to the academy members. Little inside baseball here, you know, not everybody wants to go to a theater to see a particular film. So to get those films out there

and seen by the folks who vote for them, very often they send screeners, DVD, or, you know, they send it through the laptop or whatever so that people can view them in the privacy of their own home. Well, if a distribution company decides that they're not going to send that out, then how does one see it, in order to vote for it, right?

So, yeah, you can say, oh, we made a quote-unquote black film, and that's not even a phrase that I like to use, right? Because we never say white film. You know, we never say straight film or whatever, right? So I don't like you use that film. I prefer that phrase. I prefer to say, you know, films that reflect an aspect of the black experience.

It's a lot longer. It doesn't make for a sexy hashtag, but it is more accurate. So anyway, so even when Selma came out and was a fantastic film, the distribution companies can say, oh, yeah, well, we, you know, we made a black film. It's like, but if you didn't support it, then, you know, when it doesn't do well at the box office,

when it doesn't do well during award seasons, then you can go back and say, oh, well, we tried, but we don't know what happened. And so we're not going to try and do more of that, right? And so then it becomes a vicious cycle. So they put it out there begrudgingly, but they don't support it all the way through to the very end. The other little piece of,

Inside Baseball I wanted to share is that when it comes to award season, film companies and studios have a finite marketing budget. And so if a particular company like A-24 or Paramount or whatever, MGM says that, you know, they put out eight films over the course of the year, they decide relatively early on based on everything that they're seeing, which films they think are going to do the best at award season. And then they put their marketing dollars behind those films. So if they choose two out of the eight that they had over the year and the other six actually featured marginalized

the traditionally underrepresented communities, they're going to get paid dust. And they're going to go with the war film or whatever or the back office mask because it's the same shit every single year. And those are the ones that they're going to promote during award season. And the other ones are left out to dry to, you know, to attempt to stir up award buzz all in their own. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your, your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-4-8-4-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-i-heart. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet

lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Let's get right back into it. So I want to switch gears a little bit. You know, the Oscars were not without its high points. Michelle Yo, at 60, made history by becoming the first Asian woman to win best actress and actress. Actress at the Oscars.

Her pictures with Hallie Berry were so powerful. Like, get ready to see that shit on like everything, on T-shirts, this, that, and the third. Ruth Carter became the first black woman to win two Oscars. I wonder to each of you, will this always be kind of a bittersweet thing? Because I love celebrating when we win. I love celebrating marginalized wins. But I always think, what took y'all so long? It feels in 2023, bittersweet to be celebrating these wins when I wish we were seen all the time.

I wish I didn't have to wait to celebrate these wins. I wish they were already happening. Do you ever feel that way? Yeah. You know, I think for me, and that's the hard part about, I think, about being, you know, it's funny because this conversation just reminds me so much of the con while I was having with the friend. We were talking about the crabs in the barrel mentality and the question of why are crabs in the barrel in the first place? Like, why do we should be in the ocean? No, really.

Such a good point. Such a good point. Like, why aren't crabs in the ocean? But not to divert from your question, I think the biggest thing for me is. is that when we're so marginalized and when marginalized people have only been given scraps, right, they feel like they should celebrate whatever they can get. And I think that that's the thing that I think is so frustrating, right? Because it should not be in a situation where we have to pick and choose between whether we celebrate Angela Bassett winning versus Jamie Lee Curtis, right?

It needs to be like we're looking at this notion of the reason why people are so upset that Angela didn't win is because for years Angela has shown up. and has done the work and has fought and has continued to keep showing up and is still not getting what she deserves, right? So I think that's the frustrating part. For me, it's like, while I really want to be happy and I want to be excited about the wins for other people, there's this long history that continues to keep telling us, we've had 95 years with the Oscars telling us, we don't give two shits about black people when only a black woman has only one two. when how many other people have one. So it's just, you know, I don't know if I'm making sense, but I guess for me, it's frustrating that we have to constantly celebrate the little bit that we get when there should be so much more progression. I guess that's the bigger point I'm trying to make. It's always going to be bittersweet for me because, as Dr. John Paul said, we shouldn't still be celebrating first in 2023.

You know, and so that's the really frustrating part. Every time someone from a traditionally underrepresented community wins, yes, we're excited, but it's like, damn, why did it take all this? And part of that is because as talented as that person was, we know that there was someone before them that should have won, right? Angela Bassett, this should be at least her second Oscar win. You know, starting back with what's love got to do with it, and you can choose whatever else you want to put in there. Let them know. Right. Right.

Right. And so for her to still be zero for two nominations is disrespectful at this point. And, you know, there was a whole bunch of talk about, oh, she, you know, she didn't, whatever. She didn't clap loud and laugh or whatever. And it's like, listen, she displayed a very human response, right? in that moment, after all that she has given this industry, to be looked over again, has to be heartbreaking. It takes nothing away from Jamie Lee Curtis. You know, there's a reason why I don't talk about snubs because when you say that someone has been snubbed, then the follow-up question

always is, well, you know, if they should have been nominated, then who would you take out? And that's not fair, right? Because all of the performances were great. But we know that some rise to the challenge more than others. And we also know that Academy voters vote sometimes based on legacy, history of work, right? Because, for example, you can't tell me that Al Pacino winning the Oscar for Hua, what, scent of a woman, was better than him winning for Godfather 2, for Serpico, for Dog Day Afternoon, like, you name it. But in my mind, you know, nobody will ever say it out loud.

But in my mind, he won for sense of a woman because it was based on a body of work. You know, we don't know how much longer Al is going to be acting. Overall, he's a fantastic actor. Perhaps this wasn't his best performance, but let's go ahead and give it to him. Right. And that's not the way things should be. believe, because I get this allowed, oh, well, you just want the black people to win or the queer people or whatever. It's like, no, I believe that movie awards, nominations and wins and all

awards shouldn't be, you know, participation trophies. They should be based on merit. But the Academy voters are not required to view the films before they vote. I want to like... Thank you. Like, like, underline that three times. I feel like... You might not know this. So that means that they're voting because, you know, they know the director or like the director. Or again, as I said, maybe it's a legacy win. Or they didn't vote at all. It was their manager slash agent slash publicist who filled out the ballot.

It's all of these things other than, yes, I watched all of the nominees in this category. And I believe this was the best of the five or the 10, right? And that is it. That means because the academy. voting members are still overwhelmingly white and overwhelmingly male, then that means what we really have here is a popularity contest amongst older white men. Exactly. And I guess, I guess, oh, sorry, Dr. John.

I was just going to say, that old boys club is go all way strike, honey. Yes. And I guess sort of like, against the backdrop of this being the sort of like industry, voting body and how it works, as creative and industry. professionals in this space. Like, what fills your cup? How do you both of you say tapped into your black brilliance against this backdrop that we know can be so, that just can be so bad at seeing y'all? April, I don't know if you want to take it first, but I was going to say, I think, you ask a really interesting question. And it's funny because I get people who reach out to me a lot

and say, you know, we follow you on social. We see you winning over here, especially like now my podcast is taking off. And now I'm doing all of these little things. And I have so many people reaching out and saying, you inspire me. How do you stay inspired? And I think it's really looking at other creators who, you know, like, I know, I know for me, like, I know that smile that Angela Bassett had last night was a pain smile. But there was an element to me when I looked at, when I looked at that clip again and seeing in her face, it was like, I know I did the best that I could do. And that's got to be enough. And I think that that's what's been holding me these last couple of months slash years as I've been in the industry is knowing that my good enough is going to have to be good enough and that I'm not going to constantly keep equating it to what my white colleagues are doing in their lane.

I recognize that the fields are greener with pasture for them. But I know for me what I'm going to do over here is my best and I'm going to do my best to make sure that I encourage those who are around me. So I think that that's really what holds me in this space is just saying, you know, like what Mariah say, I'm going to do the best I can with what I got. That's it. That's it. If you hear snaps over here, that's just me snapping along. Yeah. That is beautiful.

That is beautiful. I think for me, it's those glimmers of hope that I see every now and again. For example, Melvin Van Peebles and Julie Dash are now members of. of the Academy since Oscar so white. In my mind, they should have been members decades ago because of their seminal work, but because of the way the Oscars used to be with respect to inducting members,

they had not been invited. So there's that. If watching Ava DuVernay do, what, seven years, seven seasons of clean sugar and have nothing but female directors, That, you know, gives me hope and keeps me energized. Because what folks don't realize is you can do a full feature two-hour film and still not be able to get a job to, you know, direct or show run a 30-minute show on TV.

You would think that things would, you know, that the skills are transferable. But, again, it's all about the opportunities. Seeing Marseille Martin be the youngest person to ever produce a film that did really well at the box office, things like that give me hope and energy. You know, it's finally seeing Key and Michelle, yo, win last night. And the way that Asian and AAPI folks are finally, you know, getting a little bit of the spotlight. in the entertainment industry despite decades and decades of phenomenal work.

Those things all make me very happy to see, but it's obvious that we have so much more to go. We have so much more work to do. Before I let you go, April, I have one curveball question for you. I know you were the co-founder of Sister Scotis, a campaign

to advocate for getting a black woman on the Supreme Court, and you did that shit. How does that feel? Amen. Thank you for that. It feels amazing. You know, it was me and three other black women who assembled like Voltron and knew that we couldn't start the campaign once President Biden, once there was a vacancy on the Supreme Court, right? Because people don't really think about or care about judicial nominations in the same way that they do, you know, for example, presidential campaigns. And so we started work in 2020 when Biden at still.

nominee Biden, you know, Senator Biden, campaign frontrunner Biden, promised to nominate a black woman to the Supreme Court. And so now seeing her up there, it's fantastic because we know slowly but surely, again, nothing happens overnight, but slowly but surely she is going to have an impact that will last generations. And now that she is there, that ceiling is broken, and it's time to get even, you know, more people from martial, communities on the court because I think that people don't realize how important the Supreme Court is with respect to the changes that can be made and only now that Roe v. Wade has been overturned and other things are happening with respect to affirmative action and voting rights and all of that people are really starting to wake up perhaps in a way that they weren't before about how important the Supreme Court and judicial nominations and confirmations are throughout

the country, not just so the Supreme Court. Supreme Court level, but even at the local and judicial level. I am so grateful for your work in the space, both of you. Thank you so much for being here. And thank you for the lasting impact that I know that your work will make. You all are creating legacies that I know will reverberate for years to come. Where can folks follow all the work you're doing? What are you working on?

What do you want a shout out? We love you both. What do you all got? Okay, well, I'll start here. You can listen every Tuesday to a brand new episode of the Black Fat Fem podcast hosted by IHeartMedia and now on the outspoken network. And you can also find me here. You can all over the place.

I have articles coming out that are like pending. But my latest is with BET. And yeah, you can also go to my website at www. www.johnpaul.com. Fantastic. April? Yeah, this is a part I hate. You know, I'm reign of April across the board on all the social media platforms.

I will be on Spill as soon as it drops. It is going to be a culture forward app, getting back to the fun, the gifts, the memes. What's like to be? Five or ten years ago. I cannot wait. I will be there. So definitely you can go to spill dash app. com, spill dash app.com to reserve your handle because we're coming out very soon.

We just had an activation at Southby. And things are going great. I know that we have like 60,000 people waiting to get in this app so you're not going to be alone. And that's one of the major things I've got going on right now. Thanks for asking. And thank you so much for hosting, Bridget. This has been great. Thank you both for being here.

Thank you, John and April. And thanks to all of you for listening. For everything at the excess of culture, gender, race, identity. Keep following ultraviolet. And thanks so much for being here. Have a great guest night, everybody. All right. Thank you, everybody.

Have a good one. Thank you. Bye, bye, bye. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoody.com slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com.

You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoity.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and unbossed creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

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