There Are No Girls on the Internet - PC Gamer can’t name a woman; Is Marvel blaming Black women for bad box office performance?; New AI rules on YouTube; Nikki Haley wants you to use your real name online — NEWS ROUNDUP

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

Learn more about Joey’s new podcast with Raquel Willis Afterlives: https://www.them.us/story/afterlives-layleen-polanco-trans-incarceration-podcast?utm_source=twitter&utm_brand=them&utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=social Dear Video Game Industry, Please Name A Woman: https://kotaku.com/pc-gamer-30th-anniversary-women-games-1851021562 FCC moves to help domestic violence victims with new rules around cellphones: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/fcc-moves-help-domestic-violence-victims-new-rules-cellphones-rcna124902 Haley walks back declaration that all social media users must be verified: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/15/nikki-haley-social-media-anonymous/ YouTube will label AI-generated videos that look real: https://www.npr.org/2023/11/14/1212986395/youtube-will-label-ai-generated-videos-that-look-realSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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business. Call 844-844-I-Hart. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramo sending on to Ernie Stewart the chip. I'm Tav Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines, the biggest decisions, and the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and UnBossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Gros. girls on the internet. Joey, welcome back to the show. I've missed you. It's been a minute. Hey, Bridget,

it has. I've missed you too. How have things been in Joey land? What's new? What is up? How have you been? Things have been good. I actually had a new show launch that I worked on through IHeart. That's called Afterlives. The first episode is up now. People want to check that out. would much appreciate it. Might be having a bit of a crossover with throwing our girls on the internet in the next couple weeks. But yeah, it's been a, you know, been a busy couple of weeks with that.

I'm so excited. I think that it's going to be, it's like one of the most anticipated podcasts for a while. So people should definitely check it out. You'll hear more here about this soon, but definitely check it out. I'm really excited about it. And that's a great segue into talking about some of the news

that folks might have missed on the internet this week. We actually got a little bit of good news that will actually be a really good thing for survivors of domestic violence and their children. That's the passage of the Safe Connections Act. This will require telecommunications companies to adopt programs for people dealing with the horrors of domestic violence and other similar crimes, including removal from family billing plans within two business days upon request, low-cost emergency phone replacements for domestic violence victims, and cloaking of call and text logs to domestic

violence hotlines and shelters. Domestic violence organizations are really cheering this new legislation, and I think it really goes to show how big of a role technology can play in domestic violence and what a role it has to play in helping get people who are experiencing that into safer situations. Jessica Rosenworsal, who became the first woman to lead the FCC back in 2021, told NBC News, when I took over the Federal Communications Commission, these are not the things I thought I would be doing. But if you're trying to separate from someone who's abusing you, One of the things that you want to do is securely get out that family plan and set up your own communications. Now, this is actually kind of a common thing.

According to the National Domestic Violence Hotline, financial abuse exists in 98% of relationships where there is domestic violence. And so if you are on a shared phone plan with somebody and they have access to how and when you use your cell phone, because they are financially abusing you as well as physically abusing you, that would be a real barrier to you getting to safety. The National Domestic Violence Hotline CEO, Katie Ray Jones, said that cell phones are a frequently used tool of control and manipulation in relationships where there is domestic violence. And so, again, this is something that will really lower a barrier to folks getting safety and getting help that they need. Public knowledge, a nonprofit that promotes freedom of expression and open internet and access to affordable communications tools, said, implementing the Safe Connections Act enables safe and secure line separation processes allows for safer access to create. critical support resources by omitting calls to sensitive phone numbers from consumer facing

call records, improves protection against disconnection, and provides financial support through the Lifeline program to ensure that survivors can remain connected. So they mentioned the Lifeline program. The FCC manages the Lifeline program in partnership with cell service providers for survivors who are low income. The program offers free or reduced price phones and data plans and minutes for eligible low income individuals. So one thing to know about this, like even though I do think it's a good step in the right direction and I'm celebrating this for sure, but one thing to know is that it really depends on what state you're in. Per public knowledge, these rules only allow for survivors to self-certify their status as the survivor of domestic

violence to service providers, it explicitly allowed by a state. Public knowledge is calling upon every state to follow the examples set by New York and stand with the survivors of domestic violence by acting to swiftly enable self-certification. Yeah, that's really great to hear, honestly. Like I feel like, at least for me, like thinking about cell phones and cell phone usage is one of those things. It's like a little bit of a blind spot for me sometimes. Like it is something that is so ingrained into everything that we do and to how we communicate with people. And it's like, I don't know. I like, I don't think about my own phone plan that much.

Like I'll be honest. Like I'm still on my family's plan. And like I'm lucky where I have like, you know, a good situation with my family where I can stay on their phone plan. But yeah, it is such a, it's so important to how we communicate and how we kind of find safety. And it's, yeah, it's really great to hear that there's, at least seems to be the start of some sort of structure in place for survivors. Definitely. And to your point about not always thinking about your cell phone, do you remember last month when they did that test of the National Emergency Alert system where all the phones made a noise at the same time? they actually have to put out statements that were like, listen, if you're in a situation where you have a secret cell phone, like, for your own safety because you're being abused or you're not

in a safe situation, be sure to turn that phone off because that phone is going to emit a loud noise at this time in October. So, yeah, just be aware. Like, I think it can be, I agree that it can be difficult to remember cell phones and that folks in situations where they're not safe. For them, it is a critical lifeline. And I think it's just so important that we really, really have robust programs that take into effect the role that technology like cell phones really can play in survivors get into safety. We need to continue to fund those programs. We need to make sure they're as robust as they can be because people need them. Their lives depend on it. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember, yeah, I remember that like a month ago.

And yeah, I'll be honest. Like, I didn't even think about it until afterwards. I was, I think I saw something like on Twitter talking about it. And I don't know if you saw Bridget but there was like, I remember some headline that was going around that was about like Amish communities and like people's phones going off and Amish communities are like getting outed for having phones. But it was like it was so weird because that was going around as like, like, almost was kind of like a meme. And then at the same time it was like, yeah, no, there were people that were like actively put in danger because of something that seems so routine and normal to so many of us like, yeah, no, that's, it's good to hear some good news for once, I guess.

Yeah, I always like to pepper it a little good news. Sometimes the tech news can be so grim. So, you know, I always say this on the show. We've got to take our doubles or we can get them. I am a big believer in like celebrating when it feels like some progress has been made. To that point, we have rolled out some new rules around AI. So YouTube just rolled out some new rules around AI generated content on the platform. In a blog, YouTube said that creators that don't disclose whether they've used AI tools to make altered or synthetic videos

will face penalties, including having their content removed or suspension from the platform's revenue sharing program. Two spokespeople from YouTube said, this is especially important in cases where the content discussed his sensitive topics, such as elections, ongoing conflicts, and public health crises or public officials. So, yeah, that sounds great, but I will add that these are the same people who pretty recently, just back in June, said that election denialism is a-okay on their platform. You know, they announced that they were going to stop taking down content that claims the 2020 election was stolen or rigged back in June. So I guess, girl, I guess.

Like, that's it. That's what y'all are saying. Like, fine. And I guess it's one of those things where it's like, it is hard for me to take them seriously at their word when, yeah, on one hand, they're saying election denialism is okay on the platform. But they're also, when it comes to AI, saying like, oh, well, it's important that you disclose that you've used AI when you're talking about something sensitive, like an election or a public official. Which one is it, right?

It seems like those are two different lanes you're in, but whatever. So last week, Facebook also announced a new rule stipulating that political campaigns advertising on Facebook would have to disclose when they used AI in political or social issue ads to synthetically depict people or events. That seems concerning that they're letting, I mean, I guess it's hard to just be like you can't do that at all. But I don't know. I personally don't think that if you're running for office, you should be using like AI content at all. Like if you can't get real people to talk for you, maybe you should not be running for office.

Yeah. I would agree, Joey. I completely agree. I mean, like, and this is not even like a, it's not like we're talking about like a far away reality. A pro Ron DeSantis pack already used. an AI-generated version of Trump's voice in a campaign ad. So, yeah, I agree. I think that if I were making the rules,

I would say that no campaigns should be able to use AI-generated deep fakes or voice deep fakes. The Facebook rule does include carve-outs for if the AI is used for like a small cosmetic thing, right? Like you used AI to clean up a photo or to crop a photo a certain way. They do allow carve-outs for that. But I agree with you. I think that allowing that, I don't know how I don't think that's great. And I think that it really signals like where we're at on the issue of AI as it pertains to election misinformation. A recent report from the Center for Technology Innovation found that we're really not prepared for the wave of disinformation and misinformation that is AI generated.

Dorel West, a senior fellow at the Center for Technology Innovation said, there's going to be a tsunami of disinformation in the upcoming election. basically anybody can use AI to create fake videos and audio tapes and it's going to be almost impossible to distinguish the real from the fake. So it's scary and it's real and it's happening and we do a lot of talking and hand-wringing. And I will say that like we have, I am hopeful and believe that we have started to have conversations about it. You know, I think from where we were in conversations about AI today, back from like a couple of months. months ago. I think that gone are the conversations that are like just all hype. Like this is going to be so great. People are going to make so much money. Like this is going to be so exciting. It's going to change

everything. I think that we're, I think that we are maybe done with that hype cycle that just posits that AI is this new, shiny piece of digital magic that we all should be really excited about like a parlor trick. I think now we're in the part of the conversation where it's like, okay, well, how do we really need to be thinking about this in real world application? and how is this actually going to impact us? So I am hopeful that the conversation has really turned to a place where people are concerned and want to start getting some guardrails in place before it's too late. Absolutely.

Yeah, you're totally right, though. I feel like I haven't all of the kind of various news cycle things that have come out about AI like in the past month. Like, not if it's been positive. I don't think I've heard a single like positive AI story. something I remember I know there was a story I listened to that was about like the issue of

ownership of content and you know the fact that a lot of these AI technology that are out now they're relying on training models that are just sort of indiscriminately taking content from the internet and you know there's a lot of questions

about copyright and who owns you know intellectual property all of that and it was basically saying like if AI companies have to start paying for this stuff, if they need to start actually having regulations in place, like they're not going to profit.

Which is like something that seems super obvious. Like you can't just steal stuff. You actually, like, you're not going to make money if you're, I don't know, like, yeah, if your entire model is being able to like steal everything and then you're making money off of it, no shit, you're going to make a ton of money. And then if you were suddenly taken away the ability to steal things, you're not going to make as much money. But yeah, no, I think I, I, I,

want to feel positive about this. I do think that people, like, the reception of AI and the limits of AI, too, and what it can be used for is starting to change. And it's, like, good to see that. We'll see if there's actually any sort of, like, consequences, I guess, to these companies that comes out of this. Because, again, like, it does concern me that they're saying, like, you just have to label that it's using AI. And it's still sort of allowing these campaigns to use AI. And, like, you know they will. if it is something that they think is going to help them.

They're going to use it. And like you said that DeSantis campaign already has. There have been a couple notable incidents within the past month of certain groups or people using AI generated images to try to, you know, construct an image of something happening that is not accurate or is not, you know, entirely actual. We've already seen that happen. Every time it's happened, they've gotten called out. for it, but at the same time it keeps happening and it definitely impacts how people see reality.

So yeah, it's still concerned. I'm still definitely concerned. But I guess like it's good to see that like, you know, people speaking out about this and people fighting back and people trying to just sort of like preserve the ability to speak the truth in these sort of situations is at least going somewhere. At least there seems to be some response to that. Yeah. And you bring up another good point of it's interesting to me how platforms like Facebook, YouTube, Google, they are like, oh, like, we'll just label it. Like, I don't know. I think that now is a time for platforms to really, like this should be, in my book,

this should be a come to Jesus moment where platforms are like, no, but really, how can we really keep the tsunami of misinformation at bay. I think that if platforms are allowed to be the only forces setting the agenda, I don't know how far we'll ever go, right? It's clear to me that we need some combination of platforms, but then also government, right? Because platforms are never going to swing big if they're grading their own homework, essentially.

And so, yeah, I think now is the time for platforms to really make responsible policies. I am not always very optimistic when we are, when like, the only thing standing between us and, like, a tsunami of misinformation is like whether or not Mark Zuckerberg is going to do the right thing or whether or not Elon Musk is going to do the right thing or the smart thing or whatever. But you don't think that Mark Zuckerberg cares about the integrity of whatever institution. Yeah. No. I like, it's so funny. This came up in a conversation I had the other day about platforms that I think are just like garbage. I don't think that Facebook is like redeemable.

I think that like Google, you know, I have my issues with Google, but they do provide services. It's like, oh, it's the most used search engine in the world. I get it. Like they're actually doing things. Facebook, I would argue, doesn't actually produce a product that like, actually makes anybody's lives meaningfully better, they only produce like chaos and darkness. At the very best you're going to get, it's like an update from some girl you went to high school with or something. Like they're not like they're not providing a good service. So like, yeah,

I increasingly think that Facebook, if they truly wanted to do their part to create a more robust digital landscape, they would shut down. Totally agree. I do think it is really interesting that there was a while where Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, was able to convince us that Facebook was this like super vital platform. And I mean, whatever. There's a larger conversation about social media and like the role as social media has played in the past couple like two decades. But yeah, like Facebook, I'm sorry, I've seen the social network. I know Facebook started as a way for Mark Zuckerberg to like meet girls. Like I don't. There was no they with them. There was way that was going to end up is like that was going to end well for humanity and um unfortunately

we're seeing the extreme version of how you know that's kind of played out but it's like it never started as this thing that was meant to be like for the good of humanity and it it's so clear now that it's only caused chaos and yeah and and i agree i think i am pro facebook shutting down i You know, I will say I do still have an account up there somewhere. I do not remember the last time I've opened it. It just doesn't have a purpose anymore other than just, like, creating chaos. The thing that you said about the social network, this is like a personal pet peeve of mine. A couple of years ago, Mark Zuckerberg, I don't remember where you said this, but he was like,

back when I created Facebook, it was during the invasion of Iraq. And I really wanted there to be a platform where people could engage and robust debate. about the issues. And I was like, shut the fuck up. No, you fucking liar. Like, we all saw the social network. We all know that Facebook started as a platform called Face Smash. It was all about raiding the, quote,

dogs in his dorm. That is his word. It was founded on toxicity and misogyny. And I just, I thought it was really funny how he, this people really do think they're above approach, that he thought that he was going to be able to completely rewrite history

as if he like could men in black flashy thing us all. We'd all forget. We'd all be like, oh yeah, you know how the beginning of Facebook was the Iraq War. The award-winning movie. I'm sorry, once you've had Jesse Eisenberg play you, like, there's no going back. You just, you're, which love him as an actor, but like, your image is ruined. You can. That's, yeah, that's insane. I, the audacity. Fun fact, I have seen every movie that Jesse Eisenberg is. ever been in. I love that. I did a Jesse Eisenberg film

deep dive where I was going to pick one person and I was going to watch their whole Uvra. I guess this was a couple years ago now so maybe I need to get back into it if there's any that have come out recently that I have missed. But hell of an actor, right? It was born to play Mark Zuckerberg. Fantastic. Yeah.

He was fantastic in that movie. Andrew Garfield, too. Oh, yeah. I could still quote the whole goofy flip-flop. seen, but I love that. That's so funny. God, I need to watch more of his movies. Last one I can think of is the bad

Superman movie that he was in. Oh, it's bad. It's bad. Yeah, I haven't seen it. I don't plan on watching it, but him as Lex Luthor's kind of, but I guess he plays Mark Zuckerberg and he plays Lex Luthor. There's like a... He has a type. He has a type. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from

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That's iHeartadvertising.com. What's up, fam? This Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. podcast point game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nasree. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get to fly. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you. you get your podcasts. And we're back.

So in other election news, former South Carolina governor, Nikki Haley, announced and quickly walked back my least favorite social media policy that people float. She promised that if she was elected, social media companies would be required to authenticate people's identity before allowing them to comment. So everything that you post on social media would be attached to your real government name and identity. What could go wrong, right? That's horrible.

That's a horrible idea. As somebody, again, as somebody who is a teenager on the internet, too, like, I don't think I ever used my real name. But my Tumblr never had my real name attached to that. I am grateful for the fact that I never had my real name attached to that. Oh my God, same. And also, I was like, when I was, like, first exploring the internet, I guess I was a scene kid or an emo kid or whatever you want to say it.

So it was always like lowercase X, uppercase X. And then like maybe like an a like an asterisk. And then like the name like it was always the wildest, most cumbersome elaborate names. And that was and that was how you showed up on social media back, you know, back in my day, we were a proper country. When we were proper country when the scene kids ran. Exactly. Social media. That was that was the peak. Oh my God. There would be you would go to you would go to my. I had my my space all tricked out so that when you went to it. First of all, it would definitely crash whatever browser you were using. But it would be like. falling stars and then panic at the disco but then the button deposit will be hidden so you had to listen to it. It was very important to me that you listened to this whole panic at the disco song while looking at my profile.

That was such an era. That was such an era. I'm sure if I came across your MySpace page, I would have been like this person who is so cool. I would say that 100% genuine, that it's not sarcasm. That was like I always wanted to be one of those people that could like totally like

redo like their Tumblr or like coding and I'm terrible when it comes to like technology. Ironically, as I say on this tech podcast. But I can't like, I do not know how to code anything. But I always thought these were like the coolest blogs ever when you'd go to somebody's page. And it was like I was, you know, the big big when I was on Tumblr was like Doctor Who. And it was always like the little like button that looked like the TARDIS. Or yeah, like, panicked at the disco playing. that was so fun.

That is how I learned how to code. And actually there's an entire generation of people that customizing profiles like MySpace is why they are coders now, why they work in tech now. Like it really was a crash course. Expressing yourself online was like an early tech crash course for, I think, an entire generation of us. Oh, yeah. Nikki Haley said, we're going to say that they have to make sure that every person on social media is verified. Everybody gets a verified sign so we know exactly who.

who they are. Haley said during a town hall with Iowa caucus goers. What that will do is eliminate every Russian bot, Iranian bot, and Chinese bot that's spreading all of this misinformation because it's the cheapest form of warfare for them. They're going to start to be more accountable because they know their family and their pastor is going to see it. It's going to get more civilized, Haley said. So none of this went over well. It didn't go over well with really anybody, right? like folks on the right, folks on the left. DeSantis told conservative political commentator Glenn Beck that he thought that her plan would pave the way

for a social credit system akin to one in China. So eventually, Nikki Haley kind of dialed back her remarks. On CNBC, she said that she thinks that life would be more civil if people were prohibited from posting anonymously, but that anonymous accounts would still be allowed for American citizens. She said, I don't mind anonymous American people having free speech. What I don't like is anonymous rights. or Chinese or Iranians having free speech.

So, we're here. You sent the quiet part out loud. No. If you're in Iran, you can just, yeah, like, you don't even deserve free speech. So here's my thing about this. This idea that everybody needs to be verified with their real government name is not new. Trump floated it back when he was president, even though he also had not no problem boosting anonymous accounts that he agreed with, but also at some point floated

the idea that there should be no anonymous accounts on social media. It comes up all the time. And it's one of those policies that maybe sounds good when you first hear it. You're like, oh, yeah, why not? But then when you actually think about it and think about the way the internet works, you start to realize truly what a dangerous disaster it would be if everything that you've ever said on the internet had to be associated with your first and last government name. And And it would absolutely harm and silence and criminalize the most marginalized among us, people who are already harmed and criminalized in silence on social media platforms or face harsh consequences for speaking of, folks like whistleblowers, activists, survivors of violence, dissidents,

sex reverse. The list goes on and on. David Green, director of civil liberties at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, put it really well, saying, for these individuals and the organizations that support them, secure anonymity is critical. It may literally save lives. Anonymous communications have an important place in our political and social discourse. Yeah, I just think that if it wasn't for anonymous accounts online, we would never have things like the Me Too movement. We would probably never have things like filming police and posting it on social media. Think of all of the ways that anonymous accounts on social media have really pushed our social and political discourse farther. And I just think that, again, it might seem like the kind of thing

that sounds like it would work when you first hear it, but it would absolutely harm people who are marginalized. Yeah. I mean, even going back to the story up at the top about the FCC and, you know, talking about cell phones and survivors of domestic assault and our domestic abuse, yeah, social media has been another tool where people can talk anonymously about their experiences. You know, like you said, there is a hypocrisy.

that like he had Trump was one of these people that floated this idea in the same time he's happy to uplift anonymous accounts when it serves his narrative but i think like especially from the right right now there's this weird like fixation on anonymity and the way that anonymity is used uh yeah oftentimes as a tool for political activism and for social movements but it's like at the same time it's just kind of a normal part of like online discourse. I mean, just think about how many, like, really big, like, Twitter accounts that are, like, comedy accounts that are, like, totally anonymous. Like, like, drill. Like, I feel like it would break the whole, like, kind of character if I knew who that person was in real life. Like, I don't

want to know their name. They're just this faceless, like, Twitter account that I see that always puts out, like, weird things that are, like, kind of funny. I, like, I don't know. I don't know. I Yeah, I don't know. It's just such a like normal part of the internet landscape that, yes, can be used for a tool for political activism. It is important in that sense. But at the same time, it's just a part of the way that people communicate. Yeah. Imagine if instead of drill, it was Colin James in Richmond, Virginia. It's like these, like, anonymity has been part of the internet for as long as the internet has been a thing. I think that it's one of those things where people try to. to reverse that, they might not really be thinking about the ways that would not just harm people, but also break our understanding of the internet. Like it is a foundational part of how we communicate online and certainly has a place in online discourse. The internet would not be what it is today, if not for anonymity. So speaking of online discourse, the gaming publication PC Gamer put out a roundup for their 30th anniversary, rounding up influential voices who worked on a PC gamer in the last 30 years.

And guess what? They did not include a single woman. People were calling out influential women in the space, women like Roberta Williams, who co-founded Sierra Online, who was sometimes called the Queen of Adventure Games, and Mabel Addis, who was the first video game writer. People were seriously pissed. Like, I don't think I've ever seen such clear and quick condemnation

of a piece of magazine writing in a long time. People were referencing that Billy on the street joke, like, Name a woman. For a dollar. Miss, miss, for a dollar. Name a woman. Also, side note, if somebody with a microphone came up to me and asked me that,

I don't think, I think I would be like, um, bread pit. Oh, wait. Like, I don't think I would totally be flustered. Same. Absolutely. It is a great clip, though. I love it.

So this was going around on social media with people somewhat confusing the issue, saying that that particular 30th anniversary PC gamer issue was meant to be celebrating the people who worked for the magazine PC Gamer, not the gaming industry in general. But here's my thing. I still feel like that is still not great. Like, I don't know that PC Gamer should be celebrating how not diverse and how not inclusive their coverage has been for the last 30 years in 2023. Andrea Renee, founder of What's Good Games, tweeted, feels like an intentional troll to not include any women in their list of influential voices over the last 30 years. It isn't possible they just truly did not notice, right?

Is there not a single woman on the team responsible for the celebration issue and did not even one man on the team notice and say something? This is what backsliding and plain sight looks like. And I also just think overall it just does not represent where the gaming space is and is headed. There are tons of LGBTQ folks, women, people of color in the gaming space right now. These people have been making games, but also writing about games, streaming about games, you know, taking on serious issues in the space, like that deep fake scandal where popular women video game streamers were ridiculed with non-consensual deep fakes of them. I just don't think that in this moment, what we need is a celebration of homogene in this moment. In a really thoughtful piece called

Dear Video Game Industry, please name a woman, Alyssa Mercante writes, Though the Gamergate trolls have lessened in numbers since 2014, or perhaps many of them have slunk back to their dank caves to hit their jewels, wank, and blow the embedded food crumbs out of the crannies of their keyboard, the harassment that women in gaming experience is no less intense than it was nine years ago. The only way to stop that harassment is to make the existence of women and Bipot and LGBTQI plus people so normal, so obvious, so in your face, that objecting to it would be like fighting against a rip current.

The phrase that we repeat, add infinitum, until we're blue in the face, representation matters. That means that the game award shouldn't just try out the same well-known male developers it does every year, or relegate co-hosts Sydney Goodman to a side stage when she hands out the small awards like best e-sports coach or favorite community. It means that IGN's Summer of Gaming livestream deck shouldn't feature four white men and PC gamers exhaustive lookback on its 30-year history shouldn't be devoid of women contributors. It means that there should be more female voices elevated on Twitch at industry events

in developer meetings and at conventions. And just yes to everything, we'll put the link to the piece in the show notes. It is definitely worth a read. But I think that the issue that people are screaming about here is cultural. It's like, you can't just tell me that this is the face of the space right now. I understand that this was just meant to be people who worked on this particular magazine. But even that doesn't feel good to be like, oh, well, we're celebrating ourselves and how are all white men? Like, no, I don't think that in 2023, that is an accurate representation of where the space is.

And I just think that, you know, big institutions like PC Gamer, we ought to be able to expect better from them by now. Yeah. I mean, PC Gamer, it's a big publication. It's not like this is some small company coming out and just being like, we're going to celebrate our team. Like, they have, it's not like there aren't women for them to choose from to elevate. the women are there.

I think, again, trying to, you know, see a hopeful kind of spin on this. Obviously, like, GamerGate came up in that quote and GamerGate comes up a lot in this podcast. I think, like, the seeing the change from just everything that happened with GamerGate

to this article coming out now and the backlash that it's facing, that feels positive to me. Like, that feels like some positive change, the fact that I think women, people of color, LGBTQ plus people, like, we were able to band together a little bit more and actually like stand up for ourselves and that, that structure is there and that support is there. And we know that that kind of like, you know, we're all kind of in the same vote here.

We're all going to kind of support each other against this really cis white male homogenous narrative that is, they're attempting to crap here. So, yeah, again, I mean, this is a good, like, it's good to see that that backlash is happening. But yeah, it is, again, it's 2023. Like, I feel like we are well past the whole, like, gamer bro stereotype idea of, like, who plays video games. At least I thought we were kind of past that. Clearly, like, I mean, you know, harassment is going to continue to happen because, unfortunately, like, that was just kind of the world we live in. That shouldn't be the norm.

and I do think we should continue to bite back against that. But like, you know, but yeah, it is like, this just seems like such an obvious, like, blind spot for them. And, and, yeah, like, again, glad to hear that people are speaking out. And I really hope that something changes because of this. Yeah, and it's so important because I just moderated a panel at the Family Online Safety Institute's gathering. And this came up again and again, this idea that more and more people of all identities

are showing up in the gaming space, especially since the pandemic. And so it's why making sure that these spaces are spaces where everybody is represented, everybody can show up safely, truly does matter so much. And I think that institutions like PC Gamer need to just be better about representing that and representing where we really are. Like, imagine if they had taken this time to look back on the legacy of the space being treated like a white cis boys club, right, and the harm that that it's caused and how they were planning to do better going forward or something.

I just think that they have such a responsibility and also a power to really make sure that the space is being shaped in a way where folks can really be represented for who they are showing up to the space. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it is really interesting, like, video games. And you mentioned, like, post-beginning of the pandemic. I don't like saying post-pandemic, because I don't think it is fair to say that. But, you know, post the beginning of shutdown, beginning of lockdown, a lot more people have. found solace in video games and have kind of become more involved in like, you know, video game spaces and communities. And I think like that whole idea of shattering who the gamer

bro is and all that who's playing video games. Like that's something that we're seeing kind of across a lot of entertainment sort of things right now. I think it is just, it's the, yeah, the whole conversation about representation. It is why it is important when it comes to movies. It is important when it comes to, I don't know, I always, I always, I always, because, I feel like a big issue for me is always a representation of movies. And when it comes to queer people, both color, women, whatever. And it feels like such a silly thing on top of like all of the various terrible things happening in the world. But it really does like impact how we see each other and how we see like, you know, movies, video games, all this.

It's part of our culture. It's part of like how we, it is part of how we see each other. And it is important to see ourselves reflected. It is important to see people with other experiences reflected. otherwise you're going to sort of create these weird bubbles for people where all they're seeing is cis white straight men and that's not the reality of the world. So yeah, it's nice to see that we're kind of, there has been a change since this sort of like GamerGate thing that happened like what?

Like I think it was 10 years ago, like almost exactly. Yeah. And the way that conversation has changed, it's disappointing to see how much work they're still needs to be, like, needs to happen, especially, like, from an institutional level. I think, like, you know, the fans have changed, but that doesn't necessarily mean that, like, these institutions, these companies have changed. And I think that's kind of the next, uh, sort of phase of that. But yeah, it's, yeah. More after a quick break.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odin-Kirk, to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. There's that worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard herds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways. to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted

this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night to night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by,

Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah. You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's get right back into it. Well, to that end, I have to talk about what's going on. with this new movie, The Marvels. I kind of saved this topic until you were here. I was like, I want to talk about this with them. I have a feeling that you'll have thoughts. Have you heard about this new movie? Have you seen it?

I have heard of it. I will be honest. I haven't seen it. Thank you, Virgin, for shaving your fee. As I'm a big superhero fan. I'm a big Marvel fan. I have a lot of thoughts on this. To be totally honest, I have not watched a lot of the most recent MCU stuff.

I'm sure we're going to get into it, and I do think it is really interesting that like Marvel obviously had a really big moment in pop culture. And I think there was a point where it was, it was really popular. And it was really resonated with a lot of people. I think we have seen the past like year or so. That's kind of fallen off. I assume that Disney was at least somewhat aware of that, the fact that people were kind of losing interest. I think there definitely are things they could do to get audiences to come back.

I don't think they're doing that. And I think they are unfairly putting a lot of the. blame on a lot of the women and people of color that have kind of, they've pseudo-elevated within these companies. But yeah, I'm sure we're going to get into that. But yeah, I haven't seen it. I probably will at some point. But yeah, I don't know. I haven't really had an interest in going to sit through another MCU movie lately. And see a movie lately. Yeah. So I should say, full disclosure, I have also not seen it. And I also just generally don't watch a lot of movies like this.

Although I am, I watched Wanda Vision, so I like it a little bit. I'm not like, I'm not like opposed to it. But so if for folks who don't know, the Marvel's stars Brie Larson as Captain Marvel and Tiana Paris as astronaut Monica Rambo, who we saw in Wanda Vision, the movie is like not doing great at the box office. On opening weekend, the movie generated around $47 million, which Rebecca Rubin at Variety said. is the worst debut in the MCU history.

I was under the impression that the film must be getting terrible reviews. I was like, oh, it must be a bad movie. But I checked it out on Rotten Tomatoes, which I will say caveat, we talked about that maybe people can gamify that. So keep that in mind. But the reviews actually look fair to mix to me. It's 62% fresh for critics, 84% fresh for audience. So it doesn't look like it's like the reviews are terrible.

It's not being panned. Yeah. I will say, also, I have heard, I haven't seen it, but I have a couple of friends that did, and I all thought it was, like, good, you know. It's a Marvel movie. Yeah. But, yeah, it's, I mean, I've heard good things about it. Same.

So, you know, I have not seen this movie, but social media was social mediaing and was quick to blame the poor performance on wokeness, which is a claim that is, like, so silly that it's not even worth disputing here. But then those conversations took another turn, namely blaming the box office failure on the director, Mia Costa. Mia Costa as a black woman, she's actually the first black woman to ever direct a Marvel movie. On Twitter, critics were basically not movie critics like social media critics, we're basically trying to make it seem like she is the reason the movie is not performing well. One tweet that was viewed almost five million times claimed, quote,

The Director of the Marvels had only directed one feature before. It was the failed retelling of Candyman. They're letting people with barely any experience direct $250 million films based on their race and gender. Be as critical of it as you want. It's all rigged. I have so many problems with that. My first problem is that it's not even true.

A community note was added to that tweet saying that Nia Dacosta wrote and directed the crime thriller Little Woods back in 2018, winning the Nora Ephron Prize at the Trebekah film festival before directing Candyman and then directing Marvels. So that resume puts her squarely in line with previous MCU directors like John Watts, who had a very similar resume before directing their first Marvel film, right? And so that's one.

Two, is this idea that I absolutely cannot stand, which is like, oh, she only got what she got for being a black woman. They don't give black women anything. I can tell you that. So if you are a black woman and you got something, you got somewhere, you got an honor and an accolade, you earned that shit, right? Like they're not this giving away. Like if you are in these rooms and getting these things, you got them because you earned them.

They don't give us anything. So that claim in and of itself is, it just makes me laugh. It just makes me laugh. Right. And okay. Also, the MCU, like what Iron Man came out in like 2008, I think. Like it's been around for a while. The fact that it's been over 10 years and this is their first black woman that they have directing a film.

I think maybe just there's. second black director period. I might be wrong with that. I'll double check, but that's not good for them. Not really is that good. Like, I have a whole,

but yeah, no, the whole thing, especially about like other directors too. I mean, like none of the directors of Marvel movies really had like super critically acclaimed stuff beforehand. And the ones that did it, usually was like

specifically because they, okay, like, the Russo brothers did like community before they did all the Marvel which I love community. It's a great show. But it's like, that's like a, it's a sitcom. It's not like an action movie. And then they got this huge action movie deal. And like the movies did well and they kept getting more movies because of that. But it's like, they started in the same place. Um, yeah. And I mean, other, like, a lot of, yeah, a lot of their director. Yeah. A lot of their director.

came from very, like, sort of smaller film backgrounds before they did Marvel movies, like saying that, oh, it's this one person's, like, they were the exception. No, she wasn't. Like, this has just kind of been their formula. I also, I have a whole theory about this. I think the fact that, like I kind of mentioned before, I think Disney is somewhat aware of the fact that people are losing interest in superhero movies.

You know, it was a big, trends and trends fall off. And I think people are always going to love like Spider-Man and like, you know, the big ones. Like those are always going to get big audiences. But the MCU just doesn't have the same kind of like cultural power that it did like a couple years ago. I think they know that. I think the fact that all of a sudden they suddenly seem super interested in putting women and people of color and queer people in their movies. I think it's almost sort of like a weird like latch, like they're sort of using it as a, like, great. Now we can just sort of like turn the

blame on them. Like, um, the first one I can remember that was sort of like a big thing that it like didn't do very well. And it was was, was, was internals, which Chloe Dow directed, who's a fantastic director. And that also was a movie where they intentionally included a lot of actors of color. Um, I think they changed one of the characters to be a woman instead of a man and they like included a queer couple. And then the movie didn't do very well. well. And I think it was very, like, the company didn't outright say anything, but they were sort of, like, they let the discourse go in the direction of like, oh, well, it didn't, same thing. Like, it didn't do well because of wokeness. Like, it gives them sort of a weird, like, it is sort of, it is really messed up that they're like, kind of now positioning themselves. And I think that kind of has what they've been doing for like the past year is when they've been positioning themselves. It's like, we're putting out the marvels, which is this movie with like all of these women and directed by a woman of color. But then they're not like, they're not putting the same after. it into marketing that they did with their other movies and they're allowing it, like, when it doesn't do well instead of being like, yeah, we recognize that that was on us or like,

we just recognize that kind of the market's changing. They're letting the blame fall on women like Nia Costa and just the fact that this is like a female led movie. And again, personally, I'm personally not a big Captain Marvel fan. Like, I don't think she's that interesting of a character. But I think like everything that Brie Larson has gone through because of like, the stuff that she's done with Marvel is so, like, it's so disappointing, just like the level of, like, harassment that she's, yeah, kind of faced. And, um, this is just such a clear example of that happening. And it, it is, it is really weird that they're, yeah, again, like, the fact that they're kind of, first of all, positioning themselves is, like, look how progressive

we are. We are putting out this movie with all these women of color and putting out all these TV shows. We're having, like, more diversity. But then they're not owning up to the fact. that they're setting a lot of these women up to be harassed and to face that kind of backlash in people. That is an interesting theory. And I tell you, I mean, the studio could put out statements talking about how proud they are to have their first black female Marvel director or like really advocating and supporting the people who are in this movie.

They could make it clear that they are sticking by them and that they're championing them. And as far as I know, and if anybody know is like, let me know, but as far as I know, they're not really doing that. Like, you could loudly affirm, like, we stick by your talent. I don't think they have, but I do know in the past they haven't because, and this isn't just more, I mean, it is like Disney is the parent company. Like, I know when the last kind of set of like Star Wars movies came out, that was a whole thing where Kelly Marie Tran is, you know, a woman of color was elite.

in the second of the sequel, or the sequel movies, I think. She was fan. I thought she was great in that movie. She received so much harassment just for being in that movie. John Boyega also received a ton of harassment for being a black man in those movies.

And, I mean, not Marvel. Disney did not stick up for them at all, so I'm not surprised to see that the same thing is now happening with, again, their other property. What do you think it's going on there? I mean, I honestly think it is like the sort of weird combination of them wanting to have this facade of being like, look, we are

elevating people of color, we're elevating women, but then when push comes to shove, not standing up for them and not, you know, I, wasn't it like, because there was a whole thing a couple years ago, too, with, like, Chris Pratt was getting a bunch of hate online. I would argue rightfully so because he does not seem to be a good person. But, like, the way that all the way that all of the other, like, barbell actors, like, jumped to support him was, like, weird. It was so, especially, like, that happening after all the stuff with Brie Larson originally, and, yeah, all the stuff that happened on, like, the Star Wars side of, like, Disney's kind of various things that they own. Yeah, it really, like, there definitely is, like, a double standard there.

I'm not sure what the internal dealings are from Disney's side. This is not me trying to, like, start conspiracies about Disney's. Disney. But yeah, no, there definitely is a discremency with how they treat their white male actors and how they treat the women that work for them and the people of color and the queer people that work for them. So there's something's up. Something's up. Also, side note, imagine if you were a woman of color who had faced harassment because you dared to be in a Disney property and then you got the call where it's like, we need everybody to publicly tweet support of Chris Pratt right now. Oh, my God. That would be a...

Sheapped my ass. I honestly, I can't remember if ReLerson ever, like, released a statement around that, but I don't think she did, which I also, I totally supported her if she did not. That was, but yeah, that's, that is, I would, I would be so mad. I would be so mad. I completely agree with your point about institutions wanting the accolades that come with the appearance of like, we have an inclusive cast, an inclusive director,

but then not actually doing the things that it takes to support those people, right? Like it's not just about hiring marginalized people. It is about also creating the conditions that allow those people to do their jobs and thrive. And so if you're just going to hire them and then be quiet when they face unfair, gendered, or racialized harassment, you're not actually doing anything to get accolades for. You're just like setting them up to become punching bags so that you can look more, you know, I don't know, with it or whatever. Like, like I really take issue with that. And I think another point to this that really, I think I've made this point on that show before, but when you have these films that are being unfairly and harshly critiqued for things about like the race or the gender or the people who are in them or the director or whatever,

it does create this situation that I hate where people, well, like well-meaning people feel the need to really go overboard to defend these movies to be like, oh, I'm going to, like this movie is getting all this unfair, racist, sexist hate. So then I'm going to be the champion of that movie. But I don't like that either. I want to be able to just watch the movie and judge it or critique it on its merits. I understand that, but like it is just not the climate in which I want to see a movie. I want to watch a movie and be like, here's what I liked about it. Here's where it fell short and not feel like I'm having to do some kind of like weird activism by tweeting about how much I like it to defend it from these racist, sexist attacks.

Right. Yeah, because of the other side of it is like it's still like, it's still a Marvel movie. still Disney movie. It is still like a movie that is being produced by this like multi-billion dollar company. There's nothing really particularly progressive about like going out and supporting this movie.

I mentioned this earlier. I'm not a big fan of Captain Marvel. I didn't really think that was a good movie. I haven't seen this one yet. I don't, I really love the Miss Marvel show. I thought that was great. I'm excited to see like, you know, that actress was fantastic. I think like I'll probably see the movie because I do want to see her again. but it's like, yeah, I don't want to have to feel like I have to defend this movie somehow

because this is going to be the epitome of feminism in film for the next couple. Which is another weird thing I think like Marvel and Disney has done is they've, because they've kind of taken over the market so much, it's like every time, like everything they do within movie, like that is the standard. So it's like when they put a woman in a movie, you have to go support it. You have to go watch it. Otherwise, you're not supporting women in film. And it's like, no, you could go watch another movie made by a woman that probably has a more feminist, you know, message or whatever.

Like, I haven't seen this movie, but like the message of the last Captain Marvel movie was sort of like, yay, we love the military, which I don't think is like the best thing to be putting out there. But yeah, I don't know. It is really weird. same with, yeah, like the, I think they've kind of done the same thing when it comes to, narratives about people of color, narratives about women. They probably have not had that many queer characters yet, but it is sort of weird to be saying, like, like they had the like Doctor Strange movie that was a queer character. The only reason you would know that she was queer is because she has a tiny pride flag pin on her jacket, and they acted like, they were like, they were like, yes,

diversity win for us. We did such a good job. And it was like, no, I, like, 99% of the people that watched that didn't pick up on that. That is not like, if that is the standard of your setting for queer representation, we are fucked. Like it's. God. Did you ever watch that show on HBO the other two? I haven't.

I've been meaning to, though. Okay. I don't want to spoil it. There's a plot line where somebody is in, I think, a Disney movie. And it's like, oh, it's the first openly gay blob in a movie. How do you know he's gay? Because he sleeps with women. not other blobs.

And this, you know, it's like, the levels that they will go through to be like, see, we did it. She's wearing a pin. Like, my favorite, somebody made a collage one time of all the articles of the different, like, first gay character in Disney movie, which they were, like,

and all of them were like, we made a, we made a slight comment that could have been interpreted as a character coming out. But you know what? We left it ambiguous enough that, like, the right wing won't care. It's so weird.

They love patting themselves on the back for the bare minimum. Yeah, like a character, their, their, their gaze lingered a little bit. And that's how you're supposed to know. Like, that was supposed to be the coming out scene, y'all. So for all of this, I will, I do have to say that it does sound like the director, DeCosta, is not sweating it. In an interview with Varieties, Angelique Jackson, she said, there are pockets where you go because you're like, I'm a super fan. I want to exist in the space of just adoration, which includes civilized critique. Then there are pockets that are really virulent and violent and racist and sexist and homophobic. and all those awful things.

And I choose a side of the light. That is the part of the fandom that I'm most attracted to. And I really liked that of like not focusing on the hatred, the racism, the homophobia, all of that, but focusing on the light because she's got a great career ahead of her. She's already hit a lot of like really dynamic and exciting career milestones. So I was happy to read that she is not letting this get to her that she is focused on the light. Yeah. That's good to hear. And that's really interesting too because, I mean, you brought up her other, her last full.

that she did was Candyman, which I remember was another one where there was a poll, like, it wasn't as big as this, obviously, but there was a whole, like, it came out right before the lockdown started. There was a whole thing about, like, marketing and how that, and that conversation too. And, and, um, yeah, and again, it came out like right before everything shut down. So it was sort of hard to, you know, hold that up to the same standards. But yeah, I, I mean, she seems like she's a super talented individual and I hope the best for her. And, you know, unfortunate that this has kind of been the the experience that she's had with Marvel

and with Disney, but I do truly hope the best for her. And again, I do think that, you know, the future of cinema, the future of storytelling, especially storytelling that is aimed at marginalized folks, it's not going to come from Disney. It's not going to come from these big companies. It's going to come from these

really talented individuals that are making art that really reflects what they want to see in the world. So I, yeah, I truly hope the best for her and for all of the, you know, swept aside women, people of color, queer people of the Disney machine. Maybe they can all come together and do their own thing and it'll be way better than anything Disney's made in the past 10 years anyways. So, yeah. Well, speaking of very talented individuals, Joey, thank you so much for being here and talking through all these stories with me. Anytime. Love being on. Always down to, you know,

talk shit about Disney and Marvel. And just in case folks missed it, tell us again about the new pod. Yes. Thank you for reminding me. You all should go check out. It's called After Lives, the Laly and Polanco Story. It is available. The first episode is out wherever you listen to podcasts.

Our host is Trapal Willis, who's a super awesome journalist, activist. She's done a lot of really amazing work within the trans community. in trans storytelling. She also has a memoir that's coming out, I think next week. But yeah, you should check it out. It's afterlives. It is a heavy one.

We do have our trigger warnings and everything up top, so definitely pay attention to those, take care of yourself. I do think it is a really important story to get out there. It's important just in the conversation about trans folks and the violence that we face, you know,

from both interpersonally and from a state level. This is a story that talks about state violence. And particularly for those of you that also kind of live in New York, it talks a lot about Rikers Island and that is an institution, which I think is just a really important conversation to be having right now. Yeah, go check that out. Afterlives, wherever you get your podcast, first episodes out now. Definitely check it out. Check out Raquel's new memoir, The Risk It Takes to Bloom. Joey, thanks for all the amazing work you're doing. It is you are such a force. Of course. Thanks, thanks, Bridget. And thanks to all of you for listening. If you want more ad-free content,

check out our Patreon at tangoody.com slash Patreon. We'll talk to you soon. Be well. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangooty.com slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangooty.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangooty.com.

There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.

For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest,

SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed.

You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva. And on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be? I call on my Gen X squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic B-S. Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to fupas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex sometimes? They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

Thank you.