There Are No Girls on the Internet - Pornification of women on Twitch; Baltimore bridge DEI conspiracy; Amazon just walk out stores flop; Ignore your boss’s emails – NEWS ROUNDUP

Episode Date: April 5, 2024

Latino immigrant workers died on the Baltimore bridge. More will likely rebuild it: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/04/business/immigrant-workers-baltimore-bridge/index.html Baltimore mayor faces racist attacks after bridge collapse: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/04/business/immigrant-workers-baltimore-bridge/index.html Amazon’s cashier-less technology was supposed to revolutionize grocery shopping. It’s been a flop: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/03/business/amazons-self-checkout-technology-grocery-flop/index.html California introduces 'right to disconnect' bill that would allow employees to possibly relax: https://www.engadget.com/california-introduces-right-to-disconnect-bill-that-would-allow-employees-to-possibly-relax-151705072.html Billie Eilish, Nicki Minaj, Stevie Wonder, Dozens More Call on AI Developers to Respect Artists’ Rights: https://variety.com/2024/music/news/billie-eilish-nicki-minaj-ai-respect-artists-rights-1235957451 Researchers uncover ‘pornification’ trend among female streamers on Twitch: https://www.psypost.org/researchers-uncover-pornification-trend-among-female-streamers-on-twitch/#google_vignette Twitch bans turning butts and boobs into green screens: https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/27/24113838/twitch-community-update-body-part-screens-morgpieSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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844-844-I-Hart. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Joey, welcome back to the show. It has been too long. Hey, Bridgett. So welcome to There are No Girls on the Internet, where we explore the intersection of identity, tech, social media, and the Internet. This is yet another installment of our weekly roundup of news from the Internet, y'all might have missed.

And before we get too into it, I should just say, currently I am recording from beautiful Mazatlan, Mexico, to be in the path of totality for the eclipse on April 8th. The place I'm staying in is right on the beach, which is beautiful and fantastic. But right outside my window, there is, like, fully a full band kind of roaming around playing for people on the beach. They're literally right outside of my window as we speak. And so it is a festive good time. I am the only schmuck out here trying to, like, record a podcast in the middle of it. So if you guys, so if y'all hear a little music or merriment in the background, that is what's going on. Sounds truly so awful.

and difficult for you right now. It's the worst. So I have a weird question for you. You are a little bit younger than me. So this might be something that completely your generation missed out on. Did your family ever have like a code word so that if somebody, like a friend of the family had to pick you up when you were young, you would know like, oh, mom or whoever has given this person permission to be picking me up from the mall or whatever? Is this a phenomenon that you are familiar with at all? Yes, I am familiar with it. I definitely think I was kind of the end of that phenomenon because I remember like my mom bringing it up in conversation. I don't think we ever actually came up with the word. I think it was just a thing that we were like, we should do this. That would be that would be safe to do. So I was reading about how more and more of these AI enabled scams where the scam is using AI technology, somebody is spoofing the voice or in some recent.

cases, the actual video image of a very convincing version of like your loved one and that person says they are in trouble, they've been kidnapped, they need money. And then the scam is you, you know, get a call from what you think is your loved one, your family member, your sister, your daughter, whatever. And you're so distraught that you send these strangers crypto. Meanwhile, your daughter or whatever is like perfectly safe. I have been reading about how these scams are getting more and more sophisticated. And I think it's time we bring back. the family code word. So just like when you were young and your mom would tell somebody like, oh, say blah, blah, blah. And that's going to be the phrase that indicates that this person

is safe and is authorized, actually authorized by your mom. We might need to start having family and loved one code word so that if you get that call in the middle of the night, you can say, what's our AI code word so I can make sure this is actually you? I like that. Yeah. No, I agree. That stuff's freaky. I know my mom also still, like, has all of us on the, like, find my phone thing, like, on your phone plan, which, honestly, I know there's a lot of downsides of usually against the kind of constant surveillance, but, you know, it's also nice to be able to see. Right. I mean, if your mom gets a panicked call from Joey in the middle of the night, they can be like, oh, they're not kidding. They're in Brooklyn where they always are, where they ought be.

I am a big fan of the code phrase and the code word in general. I have a secret code word for if. So one of my like very closely held values is that when you ever get a feeling that's like, I want to leave wherever I am for whatever reason, you should just leave, like no questions asked. And everybody who is in my little IRL friend circle knows this about me. And so I actually have a code word or a code phrase that if I say that, it means like, it's time to GTFO immediately. I'm a big fan of the of the pre-agreed-upon code phrase or code word. I like that too.

Yeah. I think especially, I don't know, definitely have that situation where usually I'm just like, ah. So do you think you guys want to leave soon? Like, yeah, it's like having to go through all that. there's nothing worse than really wanting to leave a situation that you're in, but not being able to speak freely about that want. And so you just have to sort of be like, yeah, well, and like do a bunch of voice inflections and hope the other person picks up on it.

Okay, so let's get into this. I wanted to talk about this, but it was a little close to home. And so I kind of like waited because I was sort of like processing my feeling. So last week, the Francis Scott Bridge in Baltimore collapsed. after a container ship collided with it. It was a huge tragedy. I live in D.C., which is a little under an hour from Baltimore. So really big news here on the Mid-Atlantic region.

Sadly, a group of six immigrant workers from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras fell to their deaths in this tragedy. There was a really thoughtful piece in CNN this week about how their deaths really should be sparking a conversation about the need for more protection, specifically for foreign-born construction workers, which we'll link to in the show notes. I think it's really a must-read about just how little protections and support

our country offers these people who do so much for us. And so definitely read that piece. It was really eye-opening to me. But I say this to say, I am really disgusted to see how this tragedy has become just yet another thing

to spread racist conspiracy theories about. I'm sure I've said this 100 times on the show now, But as awful as it was, Twitter before Elon Musk wasn't like all rainbows and sunshine. I don't want to make it seem like that. But it was a place where you could reasonably get updates in real time on breaking news or disasters or emergencies like this one. So living in the area, I can tell you that like Twitter was simply not a place that you could go to to figure out what was going on in real time during an emergency. And I guess I was just really feeling the loss of that place. as a way to really stay informed about things that are happening in your community, in your

neighborhood, in your neck of the woods. Yeah, definitely. I feel like with this story, the first kind of stories that I was hearing about it coming out were more like, oh, there are these conspiracy theories around this terrible thing that happened and not just like, oh my God, this terrible thing happened. Like, the rate of which the like conspiracy theories like became a part of the news cycle was very fast and very concerning. Yes, I mean, it pains me that conspiracy theories are the main thing that people are talking about, not labor protections, not the people who lost their lives, not how we can prevent it from happening again, not what's going to happen to that bridge, like the impacts.

And it just goes to show how conspiracy theories just take the oxygen out of the room. They completely shift the conversation. So the high number of things we absolutely should be talking about, we're not talking about that because we're too busy debunking all of this nonsense that people who have huge platforms are spreading. So instead of Twitter being this place where you can figure out what's going on in real time, you have instead people with verified big platforms spreading lies and hate during an active life or death emergency. You had suspected sex trafficker Andrew Tate saying that it was a cyber attack. Alex Jones, conspiracy theorist, replying to Andrew Tate saying, oh, yeah, it looks deliberate to me, despite there being no indication that that is the case. And can you guess what Utah State Rep Bill Lyman blamed this tragedy on?

I'm sure he had a very sane and normal answer that was totally, totally on track with what actually happened. Yeah, he was talking about the need for more robust infrastructure in this country. Oh, wait, no, sorry, I have that wrong. He blamed DEI, of course, black people. He took to Twitter to say, this is what happens when you have governors who prioritize diversity over the well-being and security of citizens. So this has sort of become the new party line that DEI or diversity, equity, and inclusion, can do anything. It somehow caused this bridge to collapse. I saw a thread that included seemingly just like pictures of black people and black women that they said were like loosely associated with the port of Baltimore as the sort of smoking gun that DEI was to blame because look, here are some pictures of the headshot of black people who I am saying I am making a specious link to the port of Baltimore, ergo they are to blame for this tragedy. And it also just really angers me to see how,

this has shifted on to Baltimore's mayor, Brandon Scott, who is like a young black man. This very popular extremist Twitter account clipped a video of that mayor speaking out of oppressor with this caption. This is Baltimore's DEI mayor commenting on the collapsed Francis Scott Key Bridge. How can someone be a DEI mayor? Like, again, it's like, I feel like I am voting. If not, diversity, equity, and including. and Bridgett, you know? That's what I'm saying.

It's like, do these people know how someone becomes a mayor? You are elected as the mayor. You're not appointed. You can't like, DEI your way into being mayor. Never mind the fact that this mayor of Baltimore, he was like, he won by a landslide. I think it was like 70% of the vote. And also Baltimore is like 62% black.

The residents of Baltimore are like mostly black. So like this idea that somehow it's DEI, I just, I mean, it's so obvious what they, really mean is like they're saying DEI but they mean it. What they're really saying is like it's a black mare. Look at this black mare messing everything up. So yeah, it's fairly obvious that they what they mean when they say DEI mayor is a black mare and they probably really mean a slur, but they can't come right out and say that. So they're just saying DEI instead because they can't say what they actually want to say, which I think it's fairly obvious. But I will say it is not all bad

because in true black folks on the internet fashion, we have reclaimed this and made a joke out of it. Like, if they are going to be using DEI as a pretty obvious stand-in for the racist slur they wish they could openly call us, we may as well have a little bit of fun with it, right? On Twitter, user Petty Lepone put it wonderfully, saying, black people have already reclaimed the word DEI. That's why I love us and this is why they hate us, because all jokes aside, resilience is our inheritance. retents. Stay pressed bigots. And so now you have black folks on Twitter really using the word DEI, the way that these bigots and extremists are pretty obviously using it themselves. You have

pour a little out for the DEIs who ain't here or DEIs in Paris, DEIs with attitude. And this is honestly why I love us because we will always find a way to repackage someone else's nonsense and use it against them. I love this. And not that, long ago, I was actually on a flight where we had an all black flight crew, like the captain was black. The other captain, I guess there's two, was also black. All the flight attendants were black. And the captain got on the announcements before the flight and like introduced himself. He gave like a very long introduction. He was like, I used to be in the Air Force. I'm from Texas. I love Texas. And then before our flight took off, I kid you not, he came out of the cockpit and

shook the hand of every single person who was like ready to take this flight and introduced himself. And part of me was like, this has to have been a response to all of the nonsense that people like Elon Musk are spewing about how black pilots or women pilots, they only got there because of DEI or affirmative action. And if you get on a plane and see a black pilot, you better pray to whatever your God is that you're going to make it because it's not looking good. And it just really struck me how hard it is to just try to do your job when all of, when all of this is out there in the climate, how hard it would be to be like a pilot who is a black person up against this cultural stereotype that you cannot, you cannot do your job well because of your identity. And how fucked up it is that this pilot would have to go so above and beyond. to project this, this competence and to like introduce himself and to be like, I'm a black man. I am, I've got this. I have a background. I was in the Air Force, whatever, whatever, to demonstrate that he knows what he's doing because of the bigotry and extremism of people like Elon Musk.

I was just, you know, watching that presser from the mayor of Baltimore having to deal with these people misconstrue his words simply because of his identity while he is actively dealing with a life or death crisis. in his community, it just really drove home what an unfair messed up dynamic this is. But this is what they want. I think this is like the trip of racism. You know, it reminds me of this Tony Morrison quote. The function, the very serious function of racism is distraction. It keeps you from doing your work.

It keeps you explaining over and over again your reason for being. Somebody says you have no language and you spend 20 years proving that you do. Somebody says your head isn't shaped properly. So you have scientists working on the fact that it is. Somebody says you have no art, so you dredge that up. Somebody says you have no kingdom, so you dredge that up. None of this is necessary. There will always be one more thing.

And I just thought, gee, what if this mayor who was already dealing with something pretty heavy and pretty complicated could just focus on that and not have to respond to extremists and racists and bigots and grifters who are accusing him of, it's not even clear what other than being a black person and distracting him from this very important work. that he needs to be doing, work that happens to be life or death. Yeah, definitely. It's the acronyms or the problem. I think we need to stop calling things like acronyms. Like, first it was like CRT. Yes, we need long, boring names that do not easily lend themselves to act to like snappy acrony acronyms that scare people.

That's what we need to. Any kind of initiative, this is my new plan, any kind of initiative that we push going forward, we need to have a long, boring, complicated name that does not easily lend itself to a snappy acronym. Exactly. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guide. Not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. There's that worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah.

Me. Is there anything to? The idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yardt. They're open.

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That's iHeartadvertising.com. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. At our back. Okay. talk about this Amazon update because I feel like ever since Mike and I did kind of a contentious episode on self-checkout, which I still feel very strongly about, Mike and I have kind of dropped it and come to a, I guess, a somewhat respectful mutual pause on that debate.

I guess we'll call it that. But I feel like ever since we talked about that, yeah, I still think I'm right. He still thinks he's right. We've just decided to table. it for now. Although maybe this is a good reminder. I should kick that one back up again. So ever since our somewhat contentious episode on self-checkout in retail stores, I feel like we've kind of become the shopping technology update podcast, which I'm actually okay with because you know what? It's one of those things where it's a way that everybody comes in contact with technology. I feel like retail experiences demonstrate that like technology really matters and its technology decisions and policies really shape your everyday experiences.

have another update for y'all. So you might have heard about Amazon retail grocery stores using technology that basically allows shoppers to just walk out of the store with their purchases as a kind of frictionless checkout as opposed to waiting in line. Well, now Amazon is phasing that out, though they say that it will stick around in some UK markets and in some smaller like bodega stores in favor of what they are calling dash cart, which is sort of like a self-checkout device installed on the shopping cart. So, Joey, have you ever used just walk out shopping tech or maybe at an Amazon

Fresh or a Whole Food, which we know Amazon owns Whole Foods? I have not. I'm already somebody that, you know, is anxious about whether it looks like I'm stealing things or whatever in grocery stores to begin with. So I am not somebody who does that. Yes, we got so many emails from listeners saying the exact same thing that because of some part of their identity

or some perceived part of their identity, they always are like, I know I'm going to get stopped. I know somebody's going to think. Like, I never do that because I don't want to have that interaction because of whatever thing, someone is looking at me and thinking, oh, this person's stealing.

Which, for the record, like, I'm very white. I just have bad anxiety, which makes me think that I'm about to get in trouble, like, all the time. I am on the anti-self checkout side of the debate, I will say. Welcome to the right side of history, Joey. Thank you. Thank you. Also, look at us two little anxious, anxious, anxious, that's true.

Two little anxies. Because I'm the same way. I feel, I will just be sitting there and be like, someone somewhere is upset with me. I've done something wrong to somebody. I don't know exactly what, but I just have this feeling like something is a miss. I'll just sit with this feeling forever and just quietly vibrate with anxiety here for no real reason. I saw like a tweet or something recently about like, oh yeah, I just like constantly think that like I accidentally killed someone and just forgot about it or like something. Yes.

That's how it feels. I was like, yeah. I am the same. I feel like there's a lot of us in like the podcasting world. Oh, it's why you're a podcaster probably. Yeah. Yeah. So Amazon is phasing out these frictionless checkout lines, which people like me and Joey would never even use in the first place.

If you've never used those frictionless, just walk out, checkout lines, this is how Amazon says they worked. Customers entered fresh stores using Amazon 1 palm recognition, the app or a credit card. Amazon said that sensors, cameras, and deep learning tools caught whatever items customers took off the shelf, automatically charging them. So you can just go into the store, pick up a bunch of stuff, walk out, and then you'll just be charged automatically on your credit card. So I remember, I don't like it either.

I just would never feel comfortable doing that. Also, why are they? Okay. And again, listeners, I am somebody who, like, I don't even use, like, the facial recognition on my phone to, like, open my phone. Like, I just don't. I'm like, that's too many things watching me. I don't, this is going to end badly.

But, yeah. Well, speaking of too many things watching you, so I remember when Amazon first unveiled this technology and they were talking about it, like it was this cutting age, space age, AI technology. come to find out it's just humans watching humans shop. Just like in a regular grocery store, only the humans have been moved off site and they just like watch you while you shop and charge you for whatever you pick up and leave with. So as much as Amazon wanted to pretend like this was like space age, deep learning tech,

it's just humans, just like a regular store. According to a new report from the information, about 700 of every 1,000 just walkout sales had to be reviewed by Amazon. Amazon's team in India in 2022. Internally, Amazon wanted just 50 out of 1,000 sales to get a manual check. So Amazon is kind of like vaguely disputing this. It's like they still want this technology that they have obviously realized is a flop to be considered like cutting edge and effective, even as they back away from its use.

They're being a little bit cagey that the role that human workers in India played in their just walkout system, the information says very clearly that it was about a thousand workers in India who were watching people shop. But Amazon is disputing that kind of vaguely, basically saying that the human workers were part of it, but they were just sort of supporting the technology to do the work of checking people out. I don't really believe what Amazon is saying. An Amazon spokesperson confirmed that it uses human moderators, but declined to say how many people it employs in these roles according to the information. And I guess I say all of this to say that it does to me show how these technologies and these use cases for things like AI and deep learning and all of that.

A lot of it is just end up being smoke and mirrors that rely on humans, potentially humans who are like probably not very well paid at that to solve a problem that was never really a problem to begin with. It is like exploitation dressed up as tech innovation to me. Right. It's just this is like the latest symptom of us just living in this weird tech dystopia. where rather than using technology to make things easier for us, we're just going to like, I feel like the, you know, the powers that be that figure out these kind of, whatever, like the people in the corporate systems

that make the decisions to have these things happen, they like are so obsessed with this like aesthetic of having us in this like Star Trek future where everything is so automated and like whatever. But like nobody wants to think about what the root of those things are supposed to be, which is just like helping us make our lives easier. And instead we get this. And wow, I don't know. It is so, it's crazy how so many AI related stories lately too,

I feel like the kind of the twist at the end is like, oh, it's still human beings having to do most of the work or the labor or whatever. It's, you know, I hope this is the end of self-checkout. Wait, this is the other thing though, too, because like the whole thing with work or even, even if you're going at like a grocery store doing self-checkout like if you get anything with alcohol in it you need to like have somebody come over and like make sure you're able to buy that there's certain things that like I always end up having some issue where they're like no you accidentally pick something up and put it back down and now we're counting it as two different

things because it weighed different the second time like like these things don't work to begin with well I guess that's my thing is that I want to get to a place where when we are being sold some sort of AI technology or tool that we're being told is going to make our lives easier or more convenient or happier that we really do a little more work at looking behind the curtain of how we are being told that is going to work. And I'm a feeling to bet that somewhere down the line are exploited humans. You know, we get so many AI related pitches for people to come on the podcast and talk about their like AI innovation. And so many of them, I'm like, I don't know about this. Like some of them are.

so scummy. And so, yeah, I just, I want us to stop eating this up when Amazon says they're going to be unveiling some cool futuristic AI thing, really being willing to look under the hood and really see how cool or how convenient or how good this thing is actually going to be and not just like letting them sell it to us the way that they think it should be sold. Yeah. I definitely would recommend, I think like looking at AI and like how AI is being used right now as a labor issue. and looking at how human labor plays into the whole kind of system of whatever technology, you know, we're talking about at a given time. I think that kind of really like changes, like, changes the game and changes how you see

the effectiveness of this kind of technology. Because again, this is just another case of like, it's not really saving time or money or energy or anything. It's just, you know, adding more surveillance measures and then needing the same work. Exactly. And it's funny that you say this because actually just today, a bunch of artists, like 200 high-profile musicians, including Billy Elish, Stevie Wonder, REM, Mickey Minaj, all signed this letter, basically saying exactly that, this letter issued by the

Artists Rights Alliance and advocacy group, which makes the demand that technology companies pledge to not develop AI tools that replace human songwriters and artists. And so I think, like, you're exactly right. When you think about this as a labor issue or an exploitation issue, it becomes really clear. Tech companies and tech billionaires shouldn't be able to get richer from the exploitation of humans and have us all applaud it and call it visionary. Speaking of tech being used to make all of our lives just a little bit more miserable, have you ever had this experience where you're, I mean, I guess we work together,

so maybe you don't want to say. Maybe the email is coming from me. And you're like, oh, I don't want to say that Bridget actually is the person who sends me these annoying emails. But you know that feeling when you are trying to relax is after hours. you get like a slack or a work email in the evening and you feel like pressure to reply even though it's 8 p.m. 9 p.m. 10 p.m. Exactly. When it's almost 9 p.m. at a Thursday night. What are you trying to say, Joey? For listeners, we are recording at almost 9 p.m. Joey's time.

Yes. I am not in Mexico. I don't have to deal with the mariat to get behind me. You know, fortunately, I got to sit in quiet in my Brooklyn. apartment. But no, yes. I do know this feeling. Never for you, of course. But, you know, I will say I've had to deal with this a couple of times in my professional career. Thank you for saying never from me, even though I suspect that's not 100% true. Well, maybe we should live to California because California is following places like Spain and France by introducing AB 2751, which is being called the right to disconnect proposition. Basically, it's in very early stages, but if it were passed, it would require every California employer to lay out exactly what a person's hours are and make

sure that they are not required to respond to work-related communications outside of those hours while they're off the clock. So time periods in which a salaried employee might have to work longer hours would need to be like explicitly laid out in their contract. There are exceptions for like actual work emergencies. So in case you're wondering how this would all be enforced, well, this is from Engadgett, who writes, the Department of Labor would monitor adherence and find companies a minimum of $100 for wrongdoing, whether that's forcing employees to be on Zoom, their inbox, answering text, or monitoring slacks when they are not getting paid to do so. I do think it's fitting that California, which has created many of these technologies, is also the state that introduces

how we make it sustainable and update our protections for the times we live in and the world that we've created. That is from California State Assemblyman Matt Haley, who introduced this legislation. So as somebody who has been in that same position sometimes, or you have somebody who will not stop messaging you outside of work hours and just expects you to be online all the time, often unpaid. I actually like this. What do you think of this legislation? No, I agree. I think this is really great. I think especially, you know, in our current world, where like a lot of people, myself included and like YouTube Bridget like we all kind of work remotely so sometimes hours aren't as set in stone there aren't like you know people have been talking about this since the kind of beginning of the

pandemic but like the sort of blurring the lines between our work life and our home life has also led to kind of a blurring of like what is your work time what is your time that you're supposed to be doing your job what is your just like kind of normal everyday life um so yeah i definitely think this is super great and good on California for doing this. Hope it kind of spreads across the rest of the country. I mean, I think I personally am very invested in this issue in particular and I think it's super important. I'm here at I heart.

I'm a part of our podcast producers union. And one of the issues we were working on is making sure that we have some sort of like limitations, you know, boundaries in place so that people are working. within, you know, the normal workday hours and there's you compensation when people are expected to work outside that. Because that does, of course, happen in the podcast industry and a lot of other industries, specifically in media production. But yeah, I mean, a theme of this episodes of Paral has been, you know, making sure that people are compensated and respected for

their own, you know, the labor that they're providing. And I think this is another example of, like, just making sure that as kind of the nature of, you know, the nature of. of work changes, those expectations are also, like, changing with that. Yes, a hundred times yes, absolutely. There's a really good episode of the podcast you're wrong about with Anne Helen Peterson. The episode is called How Email Took Over the World. And I should say, like, I don't, I mean, this is like a peek into my own psyche, but like, I have a really hard time with professional communication.

Like, I hate email. My inbox is, like, very difficult. for me to keep up with. It's something that brings me like quite a bit of anxiety. And I could spend an hour not even replying to an email, just like stressing about it for no reason. Like if I allowed myself, I would spend hours and hours and hours a day just like thinking about my email inbox. And so that episode of You're Wrong About really was the first time that I realized like, oh, work didn't always used to be like this. There were actually very very. deliberate changes made in technology, particularly around technology like Gmail, that led us all

to be like, oh, well, you need to be answering your email as soon as it comes in no matter what time it is. Like, there was a time where that was not the case. If you were an older listener who was in the workforce before all of these tech tools were ubiquitous, you probably enjoyed a very different early work life than somebody like from my generation who, you know, pretty much always had that expectation. And it was the first time that I was like, wait, maybe this is not actually how we are supposed to work. Maybe the idea that I need to stop everything, no matter what I'm doing, whether I'm on the clock or off, and respond to somebody's email or Slack or ping that I didn't ask for, frankly, maybe that actually isn't the best way to get work done. So I definitely recommend that

episode. And I think, I think this is good. I think this legislation really does get us closer to the realities of what work looks like in 2024 and the labor protections and carveouts that need to be considered for working people in 2024. I will say one thing about this legislation that concerns me is that they say they have a carve out for emergencies. I have worked a lot of different places and I can tell you that a lot of different people have different understandings of what is or is not an emergency. And so I think that cannot be left up to workplaces or employers because I have definitely worked places where, you know, you've got that one person who like, oh, everything is an emergency.

And I'm like, baby, we work in marketing. Like, what are you talking about? I'm not an air traffic controller. I'm a podcaster. What is this emergency? Like, how big of an emergency could it be? Exactly. Like, nobody's going to die.

If the episode comes out an hour later, I hope not. I'm truly sorry if anybody's life has been severely affected by the fact that it took me a little bit longer to edit than normal. You don't know what's writing on this, Joey. People's lives are on the line. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guide, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between-songs banter.

There's that worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right?

That's the name. The Harvard Yard. But they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart

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Think podcasting can help your business. Think I-Hart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-8-4-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-I-Hart. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife. 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Let's get right back into it.

Okay, so this is really interesting. Are you on Twitch at all? I'm not on Twitch now. For listeners who use the live streaming platform Twitch, you might have noticed Twitch getting a little bit, for lack of the better word, pornier. Now a new study published in the Journal of Humanities and Social Science Communications kind of confirms that.

Researchers analyzed 2,000 live streams and found a pretty concerning trend that women are more frequently and intensely self-sexualizing than men live streamers on Twitch, hinting on a broader pattern that they call pornification in digital content to lure audiences. The authors of the study told Syke Post, quote, this topic intrigued us due to the growing popularity of live streaming platforms like Twitch TV and the public concern regarding the sexualized culture that may arise in these environments, we wanted to explore how this culture specifically manifest based on the gender of the streamers. Our study aimed to shed light on the nature and extent of sexualized culture in deeply

masculized environments, such as live-streaming platforms. We examined how some streamers resort to the pornification of their content to attract audiences and the potential implications for the perception and behavior of users, especially teenagers who have yet to internalize their beliefs about sexuality. So basically, these researchers evaluated live streams based on a combination of of factors, including clothing, exposed body parts, the focus of the image, posture, and behaviors that imply sexualization. It sounds like their results were pretty clear. The results showed a clear gender disparity in self-sexualization. While the platform boasted a number of male streamers overall, female streamers were found to engage in self-sexualization to a much greater extent and

intensity. Only two male streamers out of the entire sample were categorized as hypersexual, compared to 389 female streamers. Similarly, only five male streamers out of the entire sample were categorized as sexual compared to 190 female streamers. So what does this look like? How is it manifesting for these streamers? Well, the researchers found that women streamers were more likely to wear revealing clothing, focus the camera on their entire bodies as opposed to just their face, exhibit behaviors or postures considered seductive or sexually explicit. And in their findings, they underscore a notable difference in content presentation with female streamers leveraging their physical appearance and sexuality to attract viewership. In contrast, male streamers typically focus their

streams on gaming prowess or conversations or other non-sexualized content, seldom employing their physical appearance as the primary means of engagement. Quote, while men focus their content on talking or playing video games, it was found that the majority of streamers who use less clothing, Simulated sexual acts or displayed suggestive poses were women. So I don't spend a ton of time on Twitch. I'm there a little bit, but not a lot. But it is something that I guess I would say that I've noticed a bit. And I want to be clear that I think that everybody should be able to decide and be in control of how they show up online and off.

I also think that it's worth noting that I think that historically, different kinds of traditionally marginalized people have been sort of labeled sexualized or hypersexual just by showing up, whether they're doing something sexual or not. Like, I've heard on Instagram a lot of people who have bigger bodies are consistently having their content moderated as being sexually explicit, even if it's just like them in a swimsuit, them existing, right? There's something about their body where Instagram moderation has decided like, oh, this is hypersexual or this is sexually explicit. That said, I think we have to be honest that we're in a digital climate where, you know,

things are really engagement-based, right? And so, like, getting eyeballs, getting clicks, getting more subscribers, getting more listeners, getting more viewers, whatever, that can be the difference between succeeding or not and financially succeeding or not, right? And so it makes me wonder if it is really possible for women to be deciding for themselves in a meaningful way how they want to show up on these platforms, right? Like, if the main way to compete, if you were a woman on Twitch, is self-sexualization, how much agency can these women streamers really be exercising in that dynamic?

Yeah, I totally agree. I think also, and like I said, like I personally, like I'm not on Twitch a lot. I have some friends that use it more. I'm just not a big video game person. But like I have seen on TikTok and Instagram and like a lot of these other social media apps where the same sort of thing is happening, particularly TikTok since it's such a visual app and there are these also like streaming like the lines. lives are kind of essentially, like lives are essentially the same as like streaming.

Like I feel like I'm seeing that happen on there too. And I'm seeing more of this conversation about, I don't know, something that I see that I think always sort of concerns me is sometimes there's certain trends or, you know, things that come across is kind of suggestive or like openly explicit. And I'll see like teenagers doing those trends. And it's rough because on one hand, yeah, I, I, I do think, like, people should be allowed to show up online how they want to. And I think in a lot of cases, like, a lot of these people don't even necessarily realize,

like, what if there's, like, an implication or, like, yeah, or the really thinking through the whole, like, this is going to be online now. Like, I don't know. I've put stuff online that I've later regretted because I've been like, oh, maybe that was it, like, whatever. I don't know. But, yeah, it's definitely, I think there is this pressure on particularly young women. to, yeah, to come across a certain way to do things that are like a little bit more like,

yeah, like in that kind of portification category. And I wish there was a way to have a conversation about that without demonizing the people who are doing it and also like acknowledging that maybe it's not great for us, like as a whole, not great for like the people doing it for the people like that are being pressured to act a certain way or dress a certain way or whatever online. all the time. You really nailed how complex this issue is. Your comments about TikTok remind me a couple months ago about the conversation around women, adult women on TikTok who were making non-player content. Oh my God. That NPC. Do you remember that? Yes. That was like through all of these

lives. And again, I think like some of the people, a lot of people doing this were like adult women. Some people, I think just because of the nature of TikTok, like a lot of teenagers end up getting a lot of followings on them. Sometimes it's like people that I'm like, I don't know if you used to be doing that. Like I think you're going to, I don't know, like it'll be younger people that'll come on and make certain MPC content or whatever or whatever sort of like trend it's hidden under it that a lot of times also just happen to be related to like porn stuff or like weird fetish. There's always, it is the, you know, the catch 22 of being like a woman or somebody who's seen as a woman on the internet is like anything you do is going to be seen as pornographic.

Who is the other kind of side of it? We're like, you know, I feel like you always, like I'm always finding out about like, oh, actually this trend was a fetish thing or this, whatever, this was a fetish thing, whatever. And it's like, it's impossible to exist online. But yeah, but at the same time, there is definitely a pressure to to kind of fall into this, this pornification, this sexualization or whatever. Yeah. Exactly.

So for folks who don't know what the NPC non-player character stuff is, basically you had these people, mostly adults, acting like the non-player characters in video games. And so they would be doing these repetitive motions and saying these repetitive things. Like there's one woman who would say like, oh, oh, ice cream, yum, yum, things like that. People, I think rightly realize, like, oh, this has like fetish content. It's like sexual content. The people who are engaging in this were adults. But as you said, when you are sharing an internet landscape with children, when you have children and young people and adults all in one mixed bag of internet landscape community, you have adults who are consensually engaging in what is kind of fetish content. You know, consensually, you have that becoming a trend.

You have young people who might not realize the implications of what they're doing or might not even recognize it as sexualized or fetish content because a lot of that fetish content, because a lot of that fetish content, on social media is like, if I didn't, if I didn't really know, I maybe wouldn't know it's fetish content. And then you have young people sometimes unwittingly engaging in what is fetish content on social media because of the adults who were doing it consensually. And that's not a good dynamic either. And so it is, it is very complicated. But I agree, we need to start by asking the question about how we're all sharing an internet together in a way that is not going to be harmful, in a way that is not going to lead to people, particularly young people, feeling pressured into sexualizing themselves online because, like, that's what they have been told is, like,

what they should be doing. And, you know, it is really tough, though. Like, I was having in conversation about this with another podcaster about just how different it is being on video versus being a podcaster, being mostly audio. Like, it's a totally different beast. I hate being on video. I hate video content because showing up, like, visually is so different for me. You know, I'm really comfortable being a disembodied voice in somebody's head or somebody's ears. But when I'm on video, I just find myself thinking, like, am I pretty? Do I look like I'm trying too hard? Am I not trying hard enough? Like, I find it really distracting. I've also found that pretty much, like, no matter what you do, how you show up, somebody's going to find fault with it.

So just like do whatever you want because like either either way someone's going to have a problem with it. So who cares? Yeah. Quick call out to whoever on TikTok left a comment on one of my videos one time saying that my voice was annoying. I think about that all the time because again I have a wonderful voice. I talk for a living. Thank you, Bridget. Thank you.

I've had enough people tell me that I have a nice voice. So I, you know, but it, you know what? But I totally get that. I think, like, especially I am somebody who uses TikTok a lot and uses like social, uh, visual social media platforms a lot. And honestly, it is something I think about a lot. And I think especially as somebody who like exists in the weird gender gray area of a lot of people see my videos without context and like assume I'm a woman. I still have that kind of attachment with that identity in some way. This is disclaimer. I have to say.

say every time I talk about gender. I'm talking about how I see my own gender. Obviously, this is not the same for like every trans person. But I am constantly thinking about my appearance and how I'm seen. And I know that like certain things that I'll talk about, people aren't going to take it as seriously. If I don't look very well put together or like conventionally attractive, I think especially because somebody who's like not traditionally feminine, I especially know that. But yeah, no, it's, it's, it is stressful. I think like, again, like I, I, I, I love TikTok. I love making social media, like, video content. Like, that's just kind of a thing that I do is a hobby. But also, like, I've had to take breaks before just because, like, the stress of it has like,

like, I've talked to my therapist about this, like, where it's like, I think just showing up online and realizing how many eyes are on you and sometimes seeing just the, like, the number of people that have seen a certain video or seen a post or whatever. realizing like you're a public-facing person without really being a public figure or whatever. And that could be really, really stressful. Because, yeah, I mean, we all, like, everybody deals with body image issues and whatever. And, like, I'm no different. Yeah.

And I think that you're so right that basically if you are someone other than a cisgender man, people on the internet feel very comfortable policing how you look, policing your voice, policing really everything about your physical presentation. And it is exhausting. Like you just wanted to make a stupid TikTok video and here you are thinking like, oh, is my voice this way? Is my hair this way? And was my makeup this way?

Like, it just is a lot. And like, it's a lot to deal with just to want to have a platform or build a platform or put your thoughts out into the world, you know? Definitely. So it sounds like Twitch might actually be trying to do something to combat this pornification that these researchers found because in late March, Twitch actually released a new rule banning, quote, content that focuses on intimate body parts for a prolonged period of time. Verge reported that this move is, without a doubt, a targeted response to a new Twitch trend

wherein streamers project gameplay onto green screened parts of their body, specifically their breasts or their booty. So I checked out one of these streams and literally like it'll be a video game green screen projected onto a close-up of somebody's booty cheeks. Verge reports that this specific trend was popularized by MorgPai, a creator known for pushing the boundaries of Twitch's streaming policies. She does pretty wild stuff. Like, she wore a green screen cutout shirt, making her head and her chest the only part of her body that a viewer could see.

This behavior would now be a bannable offense. I don't know, maybe this is me being immature, but I actually kind of loved this content. Like it feels like it felt like camp to me, which I liked. And part of me is like if Twitch is already full of horny dues who only want to like objectify you and look at your body, you may as well own it and have it be like funny and kind of cheeky, you know? Yeah, no. I, that sounds really funny actually. See, this is, and then that's that's the like double edge sort of all this is like, I don't know.

I don't feel like the solution should be let's police people's bodies further. Like this doesn't really seem to, I don't know, I'm not sure what the right answer is here though. But yeah, that is kind of funny. I feel like there should be like a joke there about, you know, the whole meme about like Gen Z can't watch like TV shows. There has to be, like people will make fun of the like TikToks where like half the screen is a video game. And then it's somebody and that is a clip from a TV show and there people will be like, oh, like I'm having like we're breaking up. But we're Gen Z and they'll be holding up a phone that's playing. a video game and then be talking over it.

I took a very long time to explain a TikTok trend. But I feel like there's some joke there about this. Totally. I love those videos. You know, so I'm with, I'm with you. Like, I don't want to shame anybody. And also, Morg Pai's video content seems hilarious to me. So if you are an adult and you want to be self-sexualizing yourself, even if you want to be

doing that because you're going to get more money or more streams or more clicks or more engagement, I say more power. to you. Like, I am not someone who thinks that just because somebody is deciding to self-sexualize online, that person can't also have interesting or smart things to say, not at all. I just don't want there to be a dynamic where self-sexualization is the only way to get people to pay attention to what you're saying, especially given how young Twitch's user base is. In 2022, almost half, 41% of pitches users were age 16 to 24. So it is like a very young user base. So like you, I do think this is an important conversation and like a complicated one. But I think that we got to get to a

place where we're having conversations about what true body autonomy looks like online outside of this like outside pressure to generate engagement. What that truly looks like in spaces like Twitch. Definitely. So before we end, I did want to give a little Andrew Huberman update. We did a two-part deep dive into Dr. Andrew Huberman podcaster, neuroscientist. I won't say disgraced neuroscientist, but like slightly besmirched neuroscientist, I guess I will say. Thanks to everybody who listened and wrote in. I don't know why this continues to be something I am fixated on. Honestly, we did two parts, two episodes on Huberman.

I can honestly do three more. I will not subject you listeners to that unless you're someone who, who's listening, who wants to talk more about it, in which case, let me know, email me. I have a ton more to say. But in case you were wondering, Huberman has not really said anything about that bombshell New York mag piece. However, I did notice that he has continued to post his content as normal. I guess dude is going to be posting through it.

I understand. I get it. However, I did notice that he's been sneaking a like on comments on Instagram that say some version of like, just ignore the haters. Who cares what they say? So he's lurking. He's out there. We've seen it, Andrew. We know you're in the comments lurking, getting your little social media dopamine via Instagram comments. I mean, yeah, been there, man. Who among us? Who among us? Who among us?

So we asked for folks who listened to Huberman's podcast or were fans of him in some iteration to write in and let us know what they thought. And we got some very interesting responses. I think this email really summed up nicely the experience of sort of being taken by Huberman's work at first and sort of getting value out of it and then maybe realizing like maybe this isn't on the F and up. This listener writes, I got into Huberman after he was a guest on a skateboarding podcast in 2021. I really identified with having a similar background, getting into trouble as a kid, having a rough family life at home, getting into skating and eventually finding healthy positive outlets. Hube was my guy, right? I got a lot out of the deep dive episodes about ADHD, sleep and alcohol. It played a large part in cutting back excessive drinking I redeveloped mid-pandemic. But I couldn't shake the ick feeling I got as the supplement ads became more prevalent,

bleeding into the conversations with his guest. Curie is talking for three hours about peer-reviewed research and experts and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But its number one sponsor is a supplement company he consults for. While I do take some supplements, I know full well they're an unregulated industry. And whatever the label says, it's only a suggestion. So that was a whack red flag. I was also noticing he didn't have many women on as guests, weird since the image he pushes is educating people on holistic health while nearly ignoring half of the population. My skepticism spiked when I saw he was on Joe Rogan and then peaked when I saw

saw he was on Jordan Peterson. I thought Hughes was my guy, but it turns out he was just another Manosphere grifter D-bag who's just climbing the grift ladder. I really butt into his whole not like other boys vibe at first. It's satisfying as E. to see my suspicions confirmed. Fuck these grifters forever. All the same always have been. And to this person, thank you for writing this email. I feel like this listener really said what I was trying to say in two very long-winded podcast episodes in like a paragraph.

Yeah, no, definitely. I totally agree with everything I've said. And like I think this gets into like a really big part of it too, which was what you were talking about. Like a lot of people. And it sounds like the listener that wrote in this email. talked about, like a lot of us, especially during, you know, the, the heights of the pandemic and lockdown, like, really got into these sort of content creators. I watched a lot of, like, you know, I got really into, like, a lot of like tarot TikTok and stuff like that, like over

the, like in the middle of lockdown. A lot of that, too, like, you know, I'm not going to get into the whole, like, you know, new age, all right pipeline stuff. But, you know, I think we, we keep seeing more and more of these people that I've gained these huge followings from things that seem innocent and and like they're trying to help people live like more relaxed, fuller, healthier lives. Like we're seeing these people sort of show their true colors now like over the past couple years and it can be really like disappointing, especially if like, you know, like the world is a fucking hard place to deal with. And a lot of us are just kind of looking for whatever help we can and it sucks to see somebody like this take advantage of the fact that like so many of us

are just like there's so much bullshit out there we have to deal with on a day to day basis and yeah it's disappointing but yeah fuck these grifters yes as this listener put it fuck these grifters all the same always has been well joey thank you so much for helping us make sense of this news as always where can folks keep up with all the cool non-grift stuff that you are up to I mean, there might be some grifts in there. I don't know. No promises. But I do try to avoid grifting when I can. You can follow me on Instagram slash what remains of Twitter at Pat Not Pratt. That's P-A-T-N-O-T-R-A-T-T. I still have yet to make the idea of the other Twitter replacement things that have come up yet.

But TBD, we'll be there soon. Yeah, as always, Bridgett. It's been a pleasure. The pleasure is all mine. And thanks to all of you for listening. I will see you on the internet. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoody.com slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi?

You can reach us at hello at tangoati.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeart Radio and Unboss creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato

is our contributing producer. I'm your host Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite

on humor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with

the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source,

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