There Are No Girls on the Internet - She was sexually assaulted during a Lyft ride. Now she’s fighting to make rideshares safer for everyone.

Episode Date: March 30, 2022

Alison Turkos was gang raped at gunpoint during a Lyft ride. She is suing Lyft, the New York Police Department and fighting for systemic change.   Read Alison’s open letter- My Letter to the Federal Prosecutors Who Won’t Take My Case: https://aturkos.medium.com/my-letter-to-the-federal-prosecutors-who-wont-take-my-case-774d78912578   Follow Alison: https://twitter.com/alisonturkos   Want to support the show? (thank you!) Subscribe, tell a friend, leave a review, or buy some merch at There Are No Girls on the Internet’s store: TANGOTI.COM/STORE Join our newsletter: Tangoti.com/newsletter  Say hello at [e-mail]  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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podcast. Just a heads up, this episode deals pretty heavily with sexual assault. Because right now, my question to the Eastern District is how many other sexual assault cases are sitting on your docket that you refuse to bring to trial? Why not call a grand jury? But they don't like to be asked questions. And I love to ask questions. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and UnBossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. So on the show, we talk a lot about how a often marginalized people who make technology safer for everyone, and how it comes at a huge

personal cost. But too often, we do not hear these stories. Last year, the Rideshare app Lyft released a report on the number of people sexually assaulted in Rideshares. Now, they didn't just do this out of concern for public safety. It was because of pressure generated by survivors, survivors like Allison Turcos, who was suing both Lyft and the New York Police Department. On October 14th, 2017, after a night out with friends, Allison hailed a lift to get back to her Brooklyn apartment. When she noticed the driver was taking her in the wrong direction, she thought maybe he was trying to scam her out of $20 or $30.

She tried to hop out of the car at a red light, but realized the child locks were on. And when the driver pulled out a gun, she realized this wasn't just a scam. The lift driver brought her across state lines from New York to New Jersey, where he held her at gunpoint, raped her. and stood by as two other men did too. It was the worst night of her life.

What was your life like before October 14th, 2017? I always describe October 14th, 2017, as the before times. My best friend Morgan and I, that's sort of how we, even thinking about us, like I get emotional. Morgan and I always describe it as the before times, particularly because I was with her October 13th, which was a Thursday, and there's this photo of us at this restaurant that our friend Rebecca took in the Lower East Side of Manhattan. And Morgan and I are just like radiating joy and love and we're holding each other. And usually on the anniversary in October every single year, both of us will share that on social

media and just really hold space for what we refer to as the before times. So before October 14th of 2017, I'm pausing because I want to say that I was a more joyful person, not to say that I don't have the ability to experience joy in this moment in my life. And you can like hear my voice quivering and I think just because like, I think the way that I want to answer this is the idea that, like, I mourn the person that I was in October for, I mourned for the person that I was in October 2017. Because when a person experiences any type of violence, but I think particularly for those of us who experience rape and sexual assault or the spectrum of harm, the person that we were going to become ceases to exist. And so in 2017, I had like incredible career aspirations.

I thought that I wanted to be an executive director of a nonprofit. I, you know, was casually dating a person and was in an intimate relationship. I was having sex. I was really open to pleasure. I had a dramatically different relationship with my body. And, you know, I was someone who really moved through the world freely. You know, I was someone who was not consumed with lawsuits and navigating the criminal legal system. And, you know, so right before talking to you, I was having a Zoom date with one of my best friends, Kate.

And, you know, every single time that I check in with one of my friends now so often, you know, they ask me a question. like have you talked to the FBI recently? Have you talked to your lawyers? Have you talked to federal prosecutors? In 2017, those were not questions that anyone was asking me. And so I think my life was just so much more carefree. And I wasn't carrying the weight. You know, I was a survivor. The first time that I was sexually assaulted, I was 16, and the second time that I was sexually assaulted, I was 18. And so in October of 2017, I carried the weight of being a survivor, but was really starting to unpack that identity. And I think it just, when I think about that time, and I'm, you know, working through this in therapy, it's just, I just mourn for myself because I think

about, like, what would it look like if this hadn't happened? And what would it look, what would my friendships look like? What would my potential romantic relationships look like? What would my relationship with my family look like? Because my relationship with my family has been incredibly impacted by this. My relationships with my friends has been impacted. And so I think it's just the idea of I really just try to practice so much compassion and grace and patience for myself and to always hold space for the fact that I was a different person before I got into a car in October of 2017 and something incredibly traumatic happened. And it's okay because that's what violence does to a person. And the way that I really talk about it often or think about it often is that like when a bomb goes

off inside of a room, those walls fall back and, you know, a house might crumble or, you know, the structure that scaffolding might be left. But when a person's body experiences violence, or particularly when what happened to me, you know, I have no physical scars. My body is still intact. And it's really hard because sometimes you might look at me and you might think she's fine or, you know, I might meet people today and they will have no idea unless they Google me or I decide to disclose what happened to me, they would just think that I'm a quote

unquote like normal 33 year old woman who was living her best life. And I just think that unless, you know, someone knows my story, you know, the amount of violence that I have experienced in my life, particularly in the year of 2017, like how much violence can a body withstand? And I think myself and many other survivors and victims can say, you know, sometimes our bodies know no bounds, because we are able, you know, it's why we identify as survivors. If you're in a room with five women, statistically, one of them has survived that attempted sexual assault or rape. There are so many of us,

some who speak openly about their experiences and others who don't. That was something that really helped put things in sharper focus for me. How many of us are out there and that you would just think, this is someone living their best life, it's a carefree, joyful human in the world, but we're all carrying these stories with us. It's so many of us. And I think when you really contend with the scope

of how many people are out there that are survivors and that you would never know, it makes me, on the one hand, enraged, like how much can a body take? But on the other hand, I'm like, we are an army. It's all of us. It's so many of us. We are an army. In 2011, I helped to organize the slot walk in New York City, and I organized that as an ally. I did not identify as a survivor, and I was doing a lot of work to dismantle rape culture,

but was so distanced from the sexual assault that I had experienced in high school and the sexual assault that I experienced four years earlier in college. And was like marching in the streets, screaming about, you know, that no matter what you wear, it does not mean that you should, you know, that you are welcoming sexual assault, et cetera, and that if you decide to report to the police, police should no matter what but be treating you with dignity and respect and trust. And it wasn't until like early fall of 2017 that I really started to, with the help of an incredible therapist, realized that like deeply, deeply down in the depth of my brain and my body, because as we all know, the body keeps score, that I had experienced sexual assault earlier in my

life and had just, you know, was sort of like, this is over here, I'm not going to touch it. And the thing that I think about is that, you know, survivors look like your best friend. They look like your mom. They look like your brother, you know, your boss, you know, the elected official sitting next to you. And the thing that I think about so often is that, you know, survivors never owe you a disclosure. And I think that in a lot of the organizing work that I do, this is really important to me to always remember is that we don't owe you our stories. And that, you know, given the rates of sexual abuse in this country and the world, and the world, globally and how underreported we know that sexual assault and rape is that you very often should

assume that you are holding space and community with a survivor. And so when you, you know, you could be at a dinner party, you could be at, you know, your child's school at a school board meeting and talking about, you know, everything from dress code to, you know, like what does sexual assault reporting look like to even in your workplace and talking about workplace harassment. And you should always be operating under the assumption that there is a survivor sitting next to you or that the person in power is a survivor, no matter, in my opinion, how they might be the words that they might be choosing to use, because sometimes as we know, trauma responses can get the best of us. But just the idea that just because someone has never told you

verbatim that they are a survivor of sexual assault or harassment or rape does not mean that that is an experience that they have had. I am here today not because I want to be. I am terrified. I am here because I believe it is my civic duty to tell you what happened to me while Brett Kavanaugh and I were in high school. During the confirmation hearing of Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh back in 2018, Christine Blaisey Ford testified that Kavanaugh raped her when they were in high school.

Her story was powerful, and she talked about the personal cost to both her and her family and speaking up about it. But in the end, Kavanaugh was still confirmed. We live in a world that asks survivors to recount the stories of their trauma and their pain over and over again to get justice. Whatever that even looks like. After Allison was raped, she reported what happened to the police and to lift. Something that I feel like we tell survivors is that if you, tell your story again and again and again in the right ways to the right people, that is the way that you can sort of get justice. And we sort of say that with kind of a, I guess, callous disregard

for the fact that what we're really telling people is like relive your trauma over and over and over again. And that is a pathway to get justice. In your case, you have done that. I can only imagine what it has been like to relive this painful traumatic experience over and over again, but then not get any kind of satisfying outcome, not get any kind of, even a, even a, like, even just a reply back to an email. What has that been like for you? Excellent question. I think one of the things that I, upon like deep reflection every single time that I think about, you know, why I chose to report in the reporting process, you know, in high school, I didn't tell anyone I didn't tell my parents. I didn't tell friends. In college, same thing. My rapist in college was on an

athletic team. And so I was sort of operating under the assumption that because he was in a position of power on campus and he would be more likely to be believed. And so then in 2017, because I had had some significant memory loss and, you know, I thought, and I sort of emphasized that because I was really, there was an assumption that, you know, because this was, a Lyft driver. And because I had a copy of the map and because I had a photo of him and because I had his taxi limo, taxi limo commission license number because in New York City, in order to drive a ride, share, Uber or Lyft, you have to be licensed with the TLC commission. And I had his license plate number. And so because I had all of that information and a map of a ride that I was literally

handing the New York Police Department Special Victims Division, like an open and close case is an assumption that I was making. And, you know, when I made the difficult decision to have a rape kit done, which I had never done before, you know, and we later found out that there was DNA in my kit, once again, I was sort of operating under the assumption that, like, this was going to be easy. I'm not a police officer, nor have I ever. you know, investigated a case, but I just thought that this would be relatively easy. And then, you know, less than a month in, what I started to realize was that it was going to become my second full-time job to hold this particular detective. Her name was Maria Kinyones out of the

New York, Brooklyn Special Victims Division, to respond to an email, to return a phone call, to, you know, like should I and then it became one of those moments of you know like if I text her is that me bothering her and so then should I not text or should I only email her if I call her too many times is she going to get annoyed with me and the idea of like the like brain gains that as a rape victim mere weeks after my sexual assault and kidnapping that I had to play in order to like get my detective to like me enough to have to respond to me is just whole. horrifying. And then as weeks went on and she would do things like withhold certain information, like we got the results of my read kit in December of 2017. And she would tell me

certain information, but not tell me all information. And would withhold certain information. And then I would think, you know, like, okay, so I need to act a certain way in order for her to tell me certain things. And in March of 2018, we had a meeting on March 18th of 2018, and that was when she had disclosed the majority of my rape kit results, which had disclosed that there were multiple semen samples found in my rape kit, which had then alerted us to the fact that it was a gang rape and that there were multiple perpetrators who had assaulted me that night. And I started to cry. I started to show an emotion because I did not at that point in time remember the assault, but I was getting information and I did not have a

memory to attach to that gang rape. And the special victims detective said, this is clearly making you upset. It seems like I shouldn't tell you things about your case because I don't want to upset you. And so then what that signified to me as a victim was never show emotion to law enforcement. Because if you show emotion to law enforcement, then they're going to withhold vital information to you about your case. And so now, four years later, I have a very difficult time showing emotion. I'm like still working on this in therapy and still working this with my friends because if I show emotion, then I think that people either won't believe me. I think that people will find me to be difficult. And I think that people will never give me information that I believe is my

right. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite unhumored me with Robert Smygle and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again.

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this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and your 20s, they can feel like a lot. On the Psychology of Your 20s podcast, we unpack the anxiety, the overthinking, the heartbreak, the identity crisis, all of it that comes with being in your 20s. Because if you've ever thought, is anybody else feeling this way, they definitely are. I feel like my 20s was a process of checking off everything that I was not good at to get to what I was good at. Oftentimes we take everything a little bit too seriously and we get lost in things. that we later on decide weren't even important to us to begin when.

There was a large chunk of my 20s that I was just so wanting to be out of that phase out of my skin. And I just like really regret not living in the present more. Each week we break down the science behind what you're going through and give you real tools to navigate it. Your 20s aren't about having it all figured out. They're about understanding yourself just a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. costs. At our back. In 2006, sexual assault survivor, Tarana Burke, started the Me Too movement to lift up survivors

of sexual assault. And on October 15th, 2017, just a day after Allison's attack, actor Alyssa Milano posted on Twitter, if all the women who have been sexually harassed or assaulted wrote Me Too as a status, we might give people a sense of the magnitude of the problem. This call to action took off, with millions of people using the hashtag to share their stories online and led to the arrests of high-profile abusers like Harvey Weinstein. And it was against this backdrop that the complexities of reporting sexual assault played out in real time for Allison. In April of 2018, the New York Police Department Special Victims Division, and along with a couple of advocates in the city had an open forum in a Williamsburg Hotel. I can remember

it was the wife hotel or where it was. And it was all. And it was all. on a Thursday night and I had, it was my last session. I was in a rape survivor group therapy in a, yeah, a survivor support group. And I literally jumped in a cab from the financial district and took it to Williamsburg and walked in like an hour late to this forum. And Paul Sarasino, who was the deputy inspector of special victims at the time, was stood up and said to the group and basically said, you know, like the New York Special Victims Division is here. We are here for rape victims. We have all the resources. We want you to report. The thing I think that it's important is that in October of 2017, the Harvey Weinstein News had just broke. And so my story is parallel to the

research of Toronto Burke's Me Too movement. And so like the day that I was getting a rape kit done, October 16th of 2017, is when Alyssa Milano was literally using the hashtag Toronto Burks hashtag, me too. And so as this is happening and the world is breaking open with people's stories, I'm living that in real time. And so in April of 2017, when this is happening, Paul Saracino is on a mic and is saying, like, the New York Police Department is ready. Like, come, we are ready for you. And I, they were open, the public was allowed to ask questions. and I wrote anonymously on a index card and I submitted it. And Emily Gallagher, who at that point in time was running the Greenpoint Sexual Assault

Advocacy Organization, she's now an elected official. Thank you. Emily Gallagher read it. And she said, this is from an audience member. And she read it verbatim. And the card said, I have an open and active case with Brooklyn special victims. And I don't understand how you can stand in front of us and tell us that you are ready. to meet us with resources when I can't even get my detective to answer a fucking email or answer

my phone call. And the audience was silent for maybe like two seconds and then just like you could hear them all take a deep breath and then they just started to clap. And Paul Saracino, who's a, you know, a deputy inspector with the near police department, didn't know what to do. And basically was like, come find me afterwards. I want to talk to you. And I was like, okay, this is the next step of me doing another job. And I approached him and I said, I'm not ready to tell you my name. I'm not ready to tell you my detective's name. Like I think I know what this is going to look like, but I'm not there yet. And he gave me his card. And then two days later, I emailed him. And I was on the phone with him for 45 minutes and I filed an official complaint against Maria

Kenyonese. And then two days later, my case was transferred. And then I filed a complaint with the civilian complaint review board. And then they came back and said that they were going to put a more efficient detective on my case, which at that point in time they already had. I did not find that to be efficient and as if there had been. Because I mean, this is incredibly long-winded, but like Maria Kenyonez had lost video evidence. So like a part of my case is that I was kidnapped from Brooklyn to New Jersey. That involves going through the Holland Tunnel. New York City is a police state. There is surveillance everywhere, right? And so, like, there is video evidence of me in the hall and tunnel in the back of this man's car. There is police evidence or there's video evidence of me in Liberty State Park,

which is in New Jersey State Park. There's video evidence of me there. Maria Kenyonis neglected to do her job and lost video evidence and a slew of other things that, you know, were done. And so I filed a civilian complaint review board, a complaint with the CCRB, and, did not feel that they had done a satisfactory investigation. I then elevated that to the IAB, the Internal Affairs Bureau. I did not feel that they had done a satisfactory investigation, again, because how can police hold themselves accountable? And then I went to the Department of Investigation, and I filed a complaint against her with the DOI. And then finally, once I felt that DOI had not done a proper investigation, because again, how can police hold themselves

accountable or investigate themselves, I then made the decision to file a lawsuit against the NYPD. So why did you file that lawsuit? The reason why I wanted to file that lawsuit was because I am a white, cis, queer, but straight passing woman. And when I stand up in a room and say to Paul Saracino or when I stand up anywhere at a press conference on this podcast anywhere and I say, fuck cops, my anger is going to be valid. Because when I say those things, no one is going to take into account the color of my skin. I'm not going to fall into an angry black woman trope. The way that I was treated, when I reported, I carry all of the privileges in the world. And the amount of time and energy and mental

capacity and emotional capacity that it took for me to fight and to hold the NYPD accountable is not possible for a single mother with two children who's working multiple jobs. It's not possible for someone who is a sex worker and was sexually assaulted by a client of theirs. And I'm not going to say that it's not possible that they don't have the capacity to do that. But like the system is meant is not meant for us as survivors. The system is meant to exhaust us out of existence. And I decided to literally say, go fuck yourself and watch me. Like, try me, please. Because at every single turn, whatever you want to do, pile it the fuck on. Because there are so many people behind me who do not have the support system, because my friends

are amazing, who do not have the time. At that point in time, I was gainfully employed and I had a flexible work schedule. So I could try to file a foil for what's called my DD5, which is your case file. And I could figure out how to navigate the system, which is, literally impossible. And the final option was like, fuck it, I'm going to file a lawsuit. I want to see every single thing, every single decision-making process, how you decided to put her in a position of power, all of these things. Show me. And so I filed a lawsuit on January 31st of 2019 because I was like, we deserve better. And if this is how you're treating a college-educated white woman, how the fuck are you treating?

marginalized communities, folks who don't speak English, undocumented folks, sex workers, trans women of color. So I'm going to spend my privilege and do everything that I can because while I do not believe for everyone that reporting to the police or involving police in your, you know, in your sexual assault experience might not be the best option and I understand that. But for some people going to the police is going to be something that they want. And if that's what a survivor wants to do, I want them to be treated with nothing but dignity and respect and trust. I want them to walk into a police precinct and to be believed. The entire process has been dehumanizing and disrespectful. For instance, after her assault, Lyft even charged Allison for the ride. In an open

letter to the federal prosecutors who declined to take up her case, Allison recounts that they asked questions like, why was she comfortable recounting her gang rape? And they asked what, quote, sexual positions she recalled. There are no sexual positions in a rape, she wrote. It's an assault. It is brutal. It is penetration by force. It is not sex. Allison continues to fight. She's swimming lift and the New York Police Department. And she isn't just fighting for herself. She's fighting to make systemic changes so people who are more marginalized than she is. can expect better. With everything they put you through,

how do you find the strength to keep fighting? The question that I honestly, like, ask myself, like, every single day or multiple times a day, is, like, who do these broken systems benefit? Because, you know, like, how many times I have been in the streets in front of the Supreme Court, in front of, you know, the Supreme Court in D.C. or in Brooklyn or anywhere. And, you know, during a lot of, like,

NYPD protests, especially like last summer during a lot of the BLM protests, you know, is the question always like, who do you protect and who do you serve? And like that's a question that I literally have like a posted on my desk and it and it just says that because they, the system, and I literally mean like any system will always tell you that they have, you know, like we serve X community. You know, we're here to protect X. We are here, et cetera. And, um, And that is bullshit. And they are always here, I think about it sort of like an HR in any, you know, company or office space. It's like HR is not there to protect the workers.

HR is there to protect the company. And the police are there to protect themselves. Police unions are some of the most powerful unions in the country. And they are there to protect themselves. And for me, it's just the idea of like it took me a while to get here. but it was when I changed my thinking from being an individual and thinking about like this happened to me. This I am an individual.

This happened to me. And flipping that and thinking about this in terms of systems. And thinking about the fact. And again, I acknowledge that like there are community organizers. There are like black folks and organizers who have been doing this and thinking about this for years. And a lot of that like systemic work came from.

from like folks of color, black folks in my life who had been doing that for years, especially like a lot of my work come, I like started in the abortion rights world. And so in the idea of like, you know, I can think of like where I learned this, but the term of like a right doesn't mean shit if you can't access it. Your right to abortion does not mean jack shit if you cannot access an abortion. And so like that was one of the first times that I ever thought about something systemically. And so then it was just the idea of like when it came to. me attempting to do this work and thinking about, okay, so like I walked in to a hospital.

I guess it really started like when I contacted Lyft later that night. And, you know, the only thing that I could do was like open an app and like file a written complaint. And then like a couple minutes later, I was like, well, I've had vaginal bleeding and discomfort. And I'm looking at this map and I was taking to an entirely different borough and state. So none of those things sit right with me. So I'm going to call their like internal 911 customer service. And this person on the phone is just like, okay, well, we will refund you like $93 in 11 cents or whatever, but we're still going to charge you $12.81 because that's what

the ride from Crown Heights to Williamsburg would have been. That was the original ride, Crown Heights, Brooklyn to Williamsburg, Brooklyn. And in that moment, I was like, okay, sure, because I guess in reality, like, I did get picked up in Crown Heights and I did go home to Williamsburg, but there was just like, you know, 80 minutes of, you know, ride in between and 22 minutes of a stop in a park. But shore lift. You go ahead and you make that profit. Got it. Sure. And then, you know, on Monday morning, on the 16th of October in 2017, when I walked into a hospital and, you know, had a rape kit done and, you know, talk to four beat cops and then had to carry my own rape kit because the cops,

forgot it on the chair in the room and I grabbed it and then had a police escort outside of the hospital walking out of the hospital with my best friend Morgan and we're standing outside of a marked police car and Morgan and I get put into a marked police car as if we are criminals and then my rape kit sits shotgun while we ride to the Brooklyn Special Victims Division in Prospect Heights and then talk to this detective and And it's just, you know, when I think about it now, I just think of like, it's very sad when I say this, but like this happens on a daily basis. There are so many victims that this happens to. Like I was just looking at the crime stats that New York City put out. And I think it's 1,241 rates have been reported in New York City so far this year. And so that's 1,241 people who have reported to the NYPD so far. And so then when you think about it in terms like that and like a couple weeks later, I got a first, I got a bill for my rape kit.

And so it's just the idea of like, the system is not seeing you as a person. They don't see you as a three-dimensional human. They don't see you as someone who like has to pay your bills, has to raise your kids, has to exist in the world. It's just like churning you through. And so when I think about it in terms of the idea of, like, I am not alone. This happened to me, but I am not alone. And in order for there to be, like, true change, it doesn't matter that, like, I called my credit card company and then they had a

contact lift and, like, get that refund. And I had a fight with Eric Schneiderman, who at that point time was the attorney general and, like, a garbage human and a serial perpetrator of, um, of abuse to get refunded for my recit. But like, if I bang on that door, and like make my voice heard and like do not shut the fuck up the next time that someone in billing sees this code whatever the code is xxx y y why why whatever it is for a rape kit it's going to be flagged because it's going to be like that motherfucking asshole allison turkos like i yep okay we don't need another person coming here and banging on our door okay nope okay flag no one's ever getting built for rape kit from New York Presbyterian ever again. Got it. And I think for me, it's like,

that's where my strength comes from is the idea of like, I have now, I just think that like, this system is fucked beyond reason. And if we can just start to make like what I refer to as like relentless incrementalism, like, I want to bulldoze everything. I want to like burn it to the ground. But like, it's not always possible. So I think it's that like really, uh, refraintless. framing my mind to think about it in terms of systems. And then I think the other thing is like, I have an incredible, I literally could cry thinking about it. I have an incredible, incredible group of friends. And like, literally just talking about it makes me, does it make me sad? I would not be able to do this work without the community that I have. My best friend Morgan was

with me the day that I reported and held my hand while I had a kit done. And, And our relationship has really struggled and fractured at points. But we have come back together and are even stronger now, which I think is like radical honesty and transparency really got us there. And just the idea that like trauma is hard and what it does to people is hard. And I went through a phase that I call like my trauma monster phase where I was not kind to myself and to my community. And my community really practiced a lot of grace and

compassion and patience with me. And friends who just like understand that it is, it is impossible. It's impossible to, to take on the largest police force in the country sometimes. It is impossible to take on a billion dollar tech company, like Lyft hired private investigators and who like stood outside my apartment and like would photograph me. And that's hard. You know, like it's impossible to be told by the FBI to grow out your hair because you will be more believable if and when your case goes to trial. And that's hard. But my friends are just so patient and so supportive. And so that's another place that I really get my strength from. I'm so glad you have this community of supportive people to pour into you and lift you up.

God knows you deserve it. And I'm so happy that you have that. My heart goes out to folks who don't feel like they have that, but my God, I'm so happy that you do. Yeah. And to piggyback off of that, it's one of the reasons why I, like, if I see someone on Twitter who shares their story, I will DM them immediately. I don't know them. They are a stranger. But because I am so, like, truly so grateful, I love the term pouring into, because I

am so grateful to have that community and I know that I would not be where I am today without it, I, if I see. folks who are sharing their story publicly or like alluding to sharing their story or people in my community, like I will get a text from, you know, friends or mutual friends and they'll say, hey, like, I know this person, Jane Doe, and she is experiencing sexual harassment or like she's going to report and she's about to walk into a police station and she doesn't know what to do. And so now, you know, I am always wanting to pay it forward because I cannot fathom what it would be like to do this alone, to report alone, to be a plaintiff in a lawsuit alone, to tell friends and family, like to just to have to like navigate anything and to not have support. And so that's one of the reasons why I'm like very open.

And I say, like, my DMs are open. There, you know, on my website, there is like a contact me page. And, like, I will respond. And just anything, I will jump on the phone with you. We can get on a Zoom. You know, anything that I can do because I truly, truly, truly would never want someone to feel alone. And being a survivor of sexual assault can feel so lonely and so isolating.

More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smite. and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More Americans listen to Then Add Supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting.

Call 844-Ehart to get started. That's 844-844-I-Hart. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and your 20s? they can feel like a lot. On the psychology of your 20s podcast, we unpack the anxiety, the overthinking, the heartbreak, the identity crisis, all of it that comes with being in your 20s. Because if you've ever thought, is anybody else feeling this way, they definitely are. I feel like my 20s was a process of checking off everything that I was not good at to get to what I was good at.

Oftentimes we take everything a little bit too seriously and we get lost. in things that we later on decide weren't even important to us to begin when. There was a large chunk of my 20s that I was just so wanting to be out of that phase out of my skin. And I just like really regret not living in the present more. Each week we break down the science behind what you're going through and give you real tools to navigate it. Your 20s aren't about having it all figured out. They're about understanding yourself just a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clear.

clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Let's get right back into it. As of right now, federal attorneys have not taken up Allison's case. And no charges have been filed against anyone for what happened to her. And she believes it has a lot to do with being a, quote, difficult victim. So to this day, the state's attorney, they have not, they have just declined to take up your case. Have they given you any kind of clear reasoning why that is? No. And so it's not even a state's attorney, it's a federal attorney. Because, no, I mean, it's, again, things that I only am slowly starting to learn, because when you kidnap someone across state lines, it becomes an automatic federal offense. And so for, my case was originally with the Southern District of New York. They declined to prosecute. It was then moved to the Eastern District of New York, which is where it's currently sitting. And federal prosecutors, it's been with federal prosecutors for over two years now. And I think they have not given

me a direct answer. And their sort of talking point in line item is that, you know, they are, quote, actively investigating it. I don't know what more you need to actively investigate. And I think for me, the way that I see it is that, you know, I am in their mind a quote, unquote difficult victim. I speak really openly about the perfect victim narrative. I speak really openly, case in point what I'm doing today. Like, I speak really openly about what it's like to navigate the system. I speak really openly about, you know, misconduct by the New York Police Department. And I speak about, you know, my struggles of, you know, what does justice look like? Do I want, is my, you know, quote unquote desired outcome of reporting? Is my perpetrator,

being in prison. You know, can you be a, you know, prison abolitionist? Can you do, you know, transformative and restorative justice work and also be a victim and a witness in a federal crime? Can you hold all of those hard things and all of those truths at once? And I think I also am someone who sort of like laughs in the face of power. It's a privilege that I hold, but I'm like, great, you're a federal prosecutor. I just. don't know why you think that makes you better than me. Federal prosecutors don't really like that. Also, ask me how many fucks I give. And I think that they are used to victims who will sit across the table from them and being like, I'm so grateful to you. Thank you so much. Whereas I will sit

across the table from them and be like, you're doing your job. No one applauds for me when I do my job. And I think it's the idea of like, I believe and envision and work towards a world where, shout out Sabrina Hersa Issa, survivors are leaders. Our survivorship is what makes us leaders. And we are not charity cases. We are not numbers for your end of your report. Like, we are the people at the center of everything, including if we decide to file criminal charges. Like, we are the ones who get to decide things. Fine. The Constitution is a thing. I get it. Like, it's important. But, like, it was founded on white supremacy and we should just abolish that shit right now.

And so to me, it's just the idea of, like, federal prosecutors should be open and honest and transparent and not gatekeep information about our cases from us. We should not be, like, wandering around our apartments and wondering, like, what's the status of my case? Who are the detectives on my case? What is the statute of limitations? And what is a statute of limitations? and when is it going to run out? Like, I wonder, like, am I going to have to write a victim impact statement one day? What is the likelihood of me going to trial? Like, all of these questions survivors should be empowered with. Because we are most often, particularly in sexual assault, we are the only victims and witnesses to the crime.

And yet, we are treated and diminished so deeply within the system that by the end of it, we're like, fuck this noise. I don't want to do anything. And I think federal prosecutors are really expecting me one day to kind of. contact them and to be like, I've had enough. I'm too impatient. I can't wait. We're like every single three months, I'm going to email them and be like, hey, what's up? What are we doing? Want to jump on the phone? Do you want to tell me what's happening? I don't, you know, like, are you like, what are the key performance indicators of being a federal prosecutor? Because right now, my question to the Eastern District is how many other sexual assault cases are sitting on your docket that you refuse

to bring to trial. Why not call a grand jury? But they don't like to be asked questions. And I love to ask questions. I mean, that's something else that I am so taken by in terms of your story is how many different systems you are asking you are asking the hard questions of. Hospital systems, the NYPD, you know, Lyft, like you're actively suing Lyft right now. Like, what does it feel like to be hammering to get any kind of accountability from all of these different very powerful, very politically connected, very savvy, very moneyed systems all at once as one person. Yeah, that's an incredible question and I appreciate you asking it. I think the question that I just always want to ask is like, what is power? Who has it? What is hard power? What is soft power?

I'm always interrogating like capitalism. Let's look into it. And I think I really love to ask like generative questions. And so the idea of asking, you know, folks at Lyft and, you know, particularly the, like, folks on the board at Lyft, case in point, Valerie Jarrett came from the Obama White House, really invested. And I put your quotes, invested. And I'm not questioning her morals, but like really invested in, you know, work around women and girls and gender-based violence sits on the board of Lyft.

has remained silent for years as they have come under fire and as we have all filed lawsuits. And for me, it's just the idea of like, can you help me understand what's happening on the inside? Can you help me understand like how you can hold these many truths at once? And I think it's the idea of I'm, you know, oftentimes people will say, you know, like Alison Turcos is, you know, she's critiquing or she's bulldozing or she just wants to like burn everything to the ground. thing is, is like, Lyft has the opportunity to do incredible work. And they are. You know, people use Lyft to get to and from, you know, like, I'm sure that like people on their way to have babies are just like ordering a lift and getting to, you know, the hospital. They're, you know, taking Lyft, you know, to have their abortions. They're taking lift, you know,

they're, I'm not trying to abolish lift by any way, shape, or form. I'm just wanting to ensure that when you get into a lift, that people on both sides, both like the workers, and the drivers have access to a livable wage and benefits. And so, like, that's something that I'm trying to cognizantly be really thoughtful about. And also that if and when someone reports a sexual assault to Lyft, how are they being treated? Because when I reported mine and my last communication with Lyft was, I'm thinking about filing a police report. What does this look like in collaboration with your company? And I sent that on Sunday, October 15th, around 7 p.m. my time.

and Lyft ghosted me. And I was like, hey dude, what do I do? Like, do you want to file this report? How do I do this? Let's work together. At that point in my life, I was like, let's work together. This billion dollar tech company, the police, again, self-growth a lot since then. And Lyft could not fucking respond and refuse to respond because they're like, we're not going to do this.

But yet now publicly, they're like, we will always, you know, work with law enforcement. We're going to do great things. And I think it's just the idea that I'm not, again, this comes from an incredible place of privilege to say this. I'm not afraid because what do I have to lose? Like, what is Lyft going to do to me? Like, do you want to take my life savings? Great. It's not that much or really anything. Like, do you want to take, like, my dignity? There's not, like, I've been sexually assaulted three times in the most recent one was a gang rape. Like, what dignity do you think that I have? And it's just the idea of like what I don't have anything left to give you. Because in my opinion, I'm going to speak from an eye space. I don't want to

generalize. Like as a victim of sexual assault, as a victim of an aggravated kidnapping, of kidnapping a gunpoint, like the things that my perpetrators have said to me, the things that people who have perpetrated violence against me, the things that people on the internet, again, don't read the comments, but we'll come in and say, like, you made this up. This isn't true. You're trying to get attention, whatever. If leadership at Lyft or board members or shareholders or anyone want to push back against me, my question is, is like, who do you protect and who do you serve?

What do you want your legacy to be? Because I would think that you would want your legacy to be at an organization. Like, we helped people get from place A to place B. We're helping transportation to be safer. helping to do these things, and not during my time on the board, we were sued by thousands of women. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think I-Hart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting.

Call 844-8-4-4-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-I-Hart. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and your 20s, they can feel like a lot. On the psychology of your 20s podcast, we unpack the anxiety, the overthinking, the heartbreak, the identity crisis, all of it that comes with being in your 20s.

Because if you've ever thought, Is anybody else feeling this way? They definitely are. I feel like my 20s was a process of checking off everything that I was not good at to get to what I was good at. Oftentimes we take everything a little bit too seriously and we get lost in things that we later on decide weren't even important to us to begin when. There was a large chunk of my 20s that I was just so wanting to be out of that phase out of my skin. And I just like really regret not living in the present more. Each week we break down the science behind what you're going through and give you real tools to navigate it.

Your 20s aren't about having it all figured out. They're about understanding yourself just a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior. And that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of. This mental health awareness month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world

that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Let's get right back into it. In 2018, after an investigative piece about sexual assault by drivers pointed out that there was no publicly available data about assaults in ride shares, Lyft and Uber both promised to deliver a report on those numbers. Now, Uber actually did release their

report the following year. Lyft didn't. And by the time they finally published their report, showing that 4,158 reports of sexual assault by drivers and riders between the beginning of 2017 and the end of 2019, it was a full three years after the deadline they had set. I hate that we live in this world where you as someone who has already been through so much, have been harmed, is doing this kind of unpaid, incredibly heavy, thankless work to make lift a safer platform for everybody kind of against their will.

You're doing this work of dragging them, kicking and screaming to making their platform safer. And they're a billion-dollar tech company, and you're just you. And I just, it just, it's, I almost kind of can't wrap my head around it and seeing the, seeing Lyft's posture in public, like when they finally released their, you know, very late report on sexual assaults reported that happened in Lyfts, you know, being like, oh, well, you know, of course you want to have transparency and we care about safe writers. And it just kind of erased the fact that it was people like you, Allison, who had to force them to put this report out late, might I add. Like, it just erased. races, or I feel like it's an attempt to erase your voice and all that you've been through because it makes their company look like woke and good and helpful. That's completely it.

And I think also they will never, outside of what I assume is like in private Slack messages where, you know, I always like make a joke to my friends that I assume that, you know, if we did like a Control F in their Slack messages for my name, it would just be, you know, a party. But I think Lyft will never ever give credit where credit is due. And I don't need credit from Lyft. Like that's not what I want because the thing is, is that so much of the work that I do is just the idea of like, you know, it's not going to make my life better. You know, I don't file a lawsuit to make my life better because I know particularly, you know, in putting my name on a lawsuit and being public, I knew.

that it was for me an easy decision because in putting a name and a face to my trauma, it was going to be harder for a billion-dollar tech company to ignore me. But for so many other people, you know, being that public is not a decision, you know, it's not an easy decision. And I think it's just the idea that like, you know, I'm suing them. They can't be like, oh, Alison Turcos, thank you so much for all this work that you've done. But I think it's the idea of like they can never acknowledge outside of saying, you know, we had 4,000 sexual assault between 2017 and 2019, but they will never call that. They're going to always refer to them as safety incidents, which I think is, in my opinion, like really diminishing. And it's really hard

because like I get really emotional when I talk about the report because I worked so hard for that accountability. And yet it feels really hard to see, to have a company who at first told you that what happened to you didn't happen. Lyft at first told me that there was an error and that either the driver picked me up and dropped me off and then forgot to end the ride.

So then he went to New Jersey on a second ride, which the map will clearly show that did not happen. And then when I told them that, they were like, well, it must be a glitch and you either didn't update your phone. So it's an iOS error. So then they tried to blame it on Apple. I have an iPhone. They tried to blame it on Apple. And then they said that like there must be some connectivity error. So they just attempted to really like gaslight me. Gaslight me within 24 hours of being kidnapped, trafficked, sexually assaulted, and basically say like this didn't happen. And like documented. I have emails that say like

Lyft saying like this never happened. This is a tech error on your end. And then fighting relentlessly to have them release a report. And then seeing a report come out on a Friday, Thursday night, late Thursday night, Friday morning. And seeing that one of those numbers from 2017, I am one of those numbers. And it goes back to the reason why, like, I will fight relentlessly is because it just goes to show like I am one of many. and like we have to fight or I, we are fighting against a behemoth of a system. And the idea for them to say that this is a safety report and that these are safety incidents, to me, and I have said this before and I will say it again, like this is not a safety report.

This is a harm report. They are reporting on harm and harm that they are actively complicit in and hiding. And yes, they could say, like, we're not hiding it. this is a transparency report, but it's not hiding in the sense that, like, if I had not filed my lawsuit, my number would not have been there. And so how many people have contacted Lyft, either through a written complaint or a phone call? And then Lyft said to them, I don't think that happened. I think that what happened is that it's probably your iOS system has to be updated. Or like, I'm really sorry that this happened to you. We're going to offer you a $5 credit, maybe a $50

credit so it never actually gets reported. And so that is one of the reasons why I will like, again, relentlessly fight to see real numbers and to see, you know, what, what, you know, yes, they'll show us the taxonomy, but like what happens when someone calls and said, I think I was just sexually assaulted by a driver? And what is the back end? What is the script that you have someone read. And the thing that feels a little bit not great to me is that you have these sexual assault advocacy organizations like Rain and like it's on us who partner with Lyft. And sometimes it feels like you have these organizations that are allowing Lyft to use them to rehab their brand. And I really struggle with that because I just wish I'm like,

who is truly holding them accountable? It's not Valerie Jarrett. because she's sitting on their board and most likely getting paid to be on that board. And like, good for you, girl. Make all your money. But, like, maybe let's just, like, think of a different way to do it. And it doesn't feel like the folks on the safety advisory council at Lyft, which is, like, it's on us and a couple of other folks and reliance and others. Like, who is doing it?

Because right now it feels like I'm on an island of my own. and it is hard sometimes. But yet it's like we got a report. They haven't agreed to release another one. But I'm grateful that they have a report. Uber is going to release another report at the end of the year. But I just, you know, when you get into a ride share, there is an assumption of safety.

and I never want someone to go through what I went through. And I will never stop talking about it. And I will never stop holding institutions accountable because I think particularly as women, as femme-identified folks, as queer folks, particularly for communities of color, again, I am not, I am white. But like when you move through the world, we are not safe. and I think that ride share companies and particularly lift in 2017, when I got into that car, because what was happening is that the Muslim ban had just passed and they were donating a million

dollars to ACLU. They were doing campaigns of like, where you're better boyfriend. And to me, it's just the idea of like, I need you to just be a little bit more honest. I need you to just be a little bit more transparent. and I need you to actually put the people who are being harmed at the center. And that means ride share sexual assault survivors. And we are, more of us are starting to speak out. More of us are starting to be public. And you cannot put a value on our trauma.

But it would be really helpful if you would not just erase what happened to me to a safety incident. Alison, I have to tell, I mean, I am like on the verge of tears. I want you to know that you're not alone and that so many people are advocating for you, people that you'll never meet, never hear from, are listening to your story and thinking, fuck, yes. You know, where, how can people,

what can people do to support you? What can people do to make sure that what, what you just described, that that is a change that we're able to create together? Yeah, it's a great question. I think, you know, sometimes people are like, we're going to cancel lift. And I'm like, I don't think that's the answer. I appreciate that. But I don't think that's the answer. I think it's, to be honest, the best way to do it is like support survivors in your life.

Like the lift fight is, you know, is sort of over here and is like a bucket of work. But I think like truly, genuinely and honestly is like support survivors in your life. And like similar to what I had said earlier in the sense of like, excuse me, if you're in a work meeting, if you're, you know, at a sleepover with your friends, if you're on a call, anything, be aware that there is most likely a survivor sitting next to you. Be aware that you were holding space with a survivor. Be aware of the language that you use and, you know, don't use victim blaming language, you know. And the thing that I always think about is if someone comes to you and shares a story with you, and that is a story of sexual assault, workplace harassment, anything, there is a very likely

chance that you might be the first person that they tell. And if you were the first person, how you receive that and hold space for their harm is going to dramatically impact literally the rest of their life and how they choose to heal from that or tell other people or seek care. And I think one of the best questions to ask people is both how can I support you? And is this a feelings moment or a fixing moment? Because sometimes we have a tendency to go into fixing mode. And it's just like, holy shit, a person that I love was just harmed. I want to murder this person. I'm going to go do this thing. I'm going to whatever. Like we should get you a therapist. We should, you know, do you want to go to this like silent retreat, whatever? And instead of being like,

I'm really sorry that happened. How can I support you in this moment? Provide all of the space for that person to just like be. And that might be hard and it might be difficult and it might bring up shit for you, but that moment is not about you. That moment is about the person who just experienced something horrible and traumatic. And then like the next. words out of your mouth might be, is this a feeling moment or a fixing moment? Are you looking for me to just listen while you vent and cry and just open yourself up? Or do you want me to problem solve with you? And allow that person to tell you what they need because that is going to be instrumental. And like, honestly, that is what people can do for me. Because I think for me it was,

and my mom and I've talked about this before, but like the first time that I told my mom about what happened in college, her response was like, why did you wait so long to tell me? And I was like, ooh, thank the mom, love you. And that it just wasn't what I needed in that moment. And shout out to Susan, who has really done the work and started seeing a therapist,

and it was great. But now it's just the idea of when we hold space for, survivors to be like true and authentic and their most three-dimensional selves instead of being like, well, how much did you drink that night? Well, like you had sex with him before. I don't know. Mm-mm. Consent is fluid. It must be enthusiastic. It can be withdrawn at any point in time. And I think the other way that folks can support me and what I mean is like support the world at large is like read survivor stories. Read survivor stories, listen to survivor podcasts. you know, like Roxanne Gay has an incredible anthology called Not That Bad,

reading Chanel Miller's book. You know, there's an incredible podcast from NPR called Believed. And like sitting with that and just really understanding and acknowledging that like there are a plethora of stories. And as I said at the beginning, like there's no repeat experience. No survivor experience is ever going to be the same. And also acknowledging that like it's complicated. The survivor experience is complicated.

It is never cut and dry. It is never black and white. And once you allow yourself to just hold space and sit in the muck with someone and like you are able to see them and to just acknowledge like this is hard and I am sorry. And I'm uncomfortable right now, but I don't need to tell the survivor that. And I'm just going to be here for you. And I'm going to be a safer and supportive space and anything that I can do for you. And sometimes that might be like, my best friend Morgan and I watch a lot of Grey's Anatomy together. Like, all I'm going to do sometimes is just sit underneath the weighted blanket and watch Grey's Anatomy.

And that's it. My best friend Kate and I watch a lot of Real Housewives. Like, sometimes I just want to sit and like, you know, drink some wine and do that and whatever. And I think it's just the idea of like, how are you showing up for survivors? Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoati.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative.

Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guide. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Hot Vice of Atlanta, you already know, there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows,

including the Real House Wise franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the T, everybody's talking about. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Why are we all so obsessed with romance? On the Radio 831 podcast, join us, Sanjana Basker and Tyler McCall,

as we unpack all the trending tropes, fuzzy adaptations, book talk drama, and celebrity love stories with hot takes and sharp guests. Each episode digs into what these stories reveal about desire, fantasy, identity, and how we love now. Listen to the Radio 831 podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown if you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole.

This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown. Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.