There Are No Girls on the Internet - SignalGate Jeopardized Her Husband's Life - Her Viral Response Struck a Chord

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

When news broke that Trump’s senior military leadership had used an unsecured group chat to share sensitive information, the consequences were more than political—they were personal. For Kendall Brown, content creator, digital strategist, and a military spouse, the scandal known as SignalGate hit home: her husband’s life was directly endangered by the breach in protocol. Outraged, Kendall recorded a video of herself calling her senator’s office and demanding accountability. The clip went viral, drawing major media attention—and a wave of backlash. But while the threats and hate came in fast, Kendall, known for her sharp wit and thick skin, was more irritated by how unoriginal and not funny the trolls were. In this candid and surprisingly funny conversation with Bridget, Kendall shares what it’s like to live with the real-life consequences of political negligence. They dive into her experience as a military spouse, the realities of online activism, and what many get wrong about military families.   Follow Kendall on TikTok: @kendallybrownRead more: Military Wife Rips Hegseth for Risking ‘Husband’s Life’ in Viral Video – The Daily Beast   Follow Bridget across the internet: IG @BridgetMarieInDC   TikTok @BridgetMarieInDC   YouTube: ThereAreNoGirlsOnTheInternet See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Remember SignalGate? It's been a minute and a lot has happened, so here's a quick refresher. The president's national security team got caught using Signal, a private messaging app, to discuss sensitive military operations, top-tier secret, stuff that should only really be discussed on the Pentagon's ultra-secure billion-dollar communication systems. But instead of following protocol, Vice President J.C.

Pete Vance, Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegset, National Security Advisor Mike Walt, and others were chatting on Signal. Now, I want to be clear. Signal the app did nothing wrong. We're huge fans of the Signal app here at There Are No Girls on the Internet. It's run by a nonprofit led by Meredith Whitaker, who I deeply admire. This was user error, plain and simple. So how did we even find out? Well, it wasn't through a leak or a hack or a whistleblower. No, no, no, no. Someone accidentally added the editor-in-chief of the Atlantic, Jeffrey Goldberg, to the group chat. I have to be honest, it's the kind of bat-fingered mistake I find kind of relatable personally, but I am not handling national security. And it gets worse. After the scandal, Walt was photographed using an unofficial

signal knockoff called TM Signal, made by a company called TeleMessage, which was recently bought by, I kid you not, a company called Smarsh. That's a name that definitely inspires Congress. Now, unlike Signal, TM Signal stores messages on central servers, insecurely. Kind of the opposite of Signal's whole thing. Since this story broke, hackers have breached those servers multiple times. One hacker told 404 media that TeleMessage had not bothered to implement basic digital security practices, and that the whole thing only took about 15 minutes to break into. Now, this is not just political drama.

It's about real lives. Like those of America's 3 million service members, people like the husband of my friend, Kendall Brown, a digital strategist and content creator. Service members can't always speak out, but Kendall can. She makes it her business to use the internet to speak up for service members like her husband. Weirdly, he, in some ways, I think he lives vicariously through me online that I'm able to say all of this shit and he cannot. So I think in some way, like I've never made a video related to the military without running it by him first. And I have yet to make one that he doesn't agree with. So in some ways, I feel like I'm being his mouth for him.

Beyond the logistics of what happened with Signalgate, Kendall's reaction went deeper. She was pissed off. Here's a little of what Kendall had to say in her now viral TikTok about Signalgate. As someone whose husband is currently deployed in the Middle East, not far from Yemen, I'm going to warn you now, this is going to be the angriest fucking video I have ever made in my entire life, because there are not adequate words in the English language for me to fully fucking communicate to you right now, how fucking furious I am. I can only really describe the tone of that video as like righteous, righteous anger,

like very, I don't know, like, yeah, it lit a fire in me. do think that there's something about seeing a video like that right now where every day I am seeing content that enrages me and it's easy to sort of get numb to it. But something about your video really broke through. So what was going through your mind when you first saw this news about the signal chat? Oh, I was big mad. Like I it was the kind of mad where I feel like all thoughts left my head entirely and it was just left with this like buzzing noise. It was, you know, a lot of the content that I post online, there is at least some amount of like forethought to it. This was not one of those times. I literally just got my phone, started recording and immediately was just

honestly, practically screaming into my phone. Definitely yelling almost to the level of screaming And just, honestly, I was so mad I had to get it out there. And I knew that this is one of those topics that the people in power get away with this shit, specifically because they know the people most impacted active duty service members literally cannot say anything publicly. And so the overwhelming majority of Americans have no way, of connecting emotionally with the topic. And so, you know, most Democrats, most leftists can look at the story and be like, yeah, logically, this is bad, but they can't feel the emotion of how scary it is,

how infuriating it is. And I think it's really important for people to connect to the emotions of it. I think that's one of our biggest flaws on the left is that we get like really absorbed into the like facts and we're going to fact check you to death. And somehow if we just tell you enough facts, you're going to be on our side. And that's just not how humans work. So, yeah, I try to show up emotionally in most of my content, but especially when I'm talking about a subject that I know most people just have no. I mean, most people not only haven't served, they don't have a loved one that, like a close, immediate loved one that has served. And so there's just, there's no way to connect to that. And we live in a society where media has depicted military service as this, like, romantic, you know, oh, it's this sacrifice. and everyone that does it is so ready to lay down their lives and just, oh.

And the reality is, like, most of the people in the military are just poor people that needed a path out of poverty or out of whatever rural hellhole they were born in. And, like, they just want to do their job and go home at the end of it. They're just normal people. So I think even for people on the left, like I said, it can just be really hard to connect to it emotionally. So there have been times where I've recorded rants where I haven't posted, because I'll watch it back and I'll be like, ooh, okay, I was a little too far on that one. I need to like bring it down a few knots. But this was not one of those times. Kendall's righteous anger struck a chord.

Her video racked up over three million views and sparked headlines across the country. Like, military wife rips haggsass for risking husband's life and viral video. So I just went ahead and I was like, let's do it. So I just went ahead and posted it. And I genuinely, I was expecting there to be people that were angry about it. I wasn't expecting there to be as much of a positive response to it that there was. What was the response like? So on Twitter, it was basically just immediately launched into like a week and a half of thousands of people calling me fat.

Essentially, like that was the primary response is, oh, well, you're a fat bitch, essentially. And then Instagram was a little bit of both. I just got to the point where I started oscillating back and forth between, I'm not going to look at any of the comments, screw them, I said what I said, and I'm just whatever, they can have their feelings and I don't have to listen to them, to then oscillating back to, no, you know what, I am going to read the comments and I'm going to be mean back to them because none of these motherfuckers know how to make a funny insult. So I really, for the first week, that's mostly what I was doing just because it was fun to me. And then weirdly on Instagram was,

First of all, Instagram was like right in the middle in terms of how people responded to it. But that was also where I started hearing from a ton of military spouses, a ton of active duty service members reaching out to me and being like, oh my God, thank you. Like we can't say this or we didn't know how to say this. And so once I started getting those messages, I didn't give a shit what they were saying on Twitter at that point. because, like, the people that responded by telling me how repulsive they thought I was, like, they clearly have no idea what it's like for military families. So who gives a shit about their opinions when the actual military families are reaching out to me and saying that they're grateful.

Military families cannot always be as outspoken as Kendall is, but sometimes they are. Take what happened back in February. Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegeseth, announced a series of hardline changes banning trans people from joining the military, halting gender-reforming care for service members and restricting certain books of the Department of Defense schools. Soon after, during a visit to a U.S. military base in Germany, he was met with unexpected pushback.

About two dozen military families, mostly young people, gathered to make their voices heard. They booed, heckled, and even chanted, D-E-I-D-E-I, you, basically saying, you, Pete Hegseth, are the DEI hire. You know, it has to be a real specific kind of dynamic where if you are a service member or somebody close to a service member, you can't always say your opinion about things. Or, you know, even if you are not a service member yourself, if you're close to one, that comes with its own kind of baggage that might be very silencing. So in ways, do you feel like you're able to sort of be the person who, you know, explains the emotionality behind this situation for folks who sometimes really can't? Yeah, I think so. But I'm also, honestly, I'm really inspired by a, so even like,

a lot of people have been saying like, oh, what you said, being willing to say that and like, take that risk is really brave. But I was actually inspired by the bravery of there was a group of middle school age kids who have a parent that is active duty military and is, uh, is stationed in, I want to say it's stuttered Germany. It's one of the German bases. And right at the very beginning of, like, right after Pete Heggseth had been confirmed, he went to this military base. And not only was he met by a couple of dozen active duty military families,

like when he was getting off the plane, they were standing there protesting him and yelling at him about how. how he has been attacking the concept of DEI, but also when he visited the middle school that's on base, there was like a fifth grader that led a walkout of all of the students in response to him. It's impressive for sure, but not without risk. For service members and their families, speaking your mind comes at a high cost.

I don't think people understand how big of a risk you're taking as a military family member, especially when you're stationed overseas. Because anything that you do on base is held against your sponsor, so your active duty service member. I have seen families get kicked off of base housing entirely because of something their kid did. So like, you know, where I'm, where we live, there was a kid. Usually it's like, you know, shitty teenagers being,

shitty teenagers and like vandalizing something. And if they figure out who did it, that whole family has to move off of base housing. So like it is very, very serious. So the fact that these kids were brave enough to do that, knowing that like the stakes are even higher when you're at a base overseas. Because if you get kicked out out of base housing on an overseas base, where the fuck are you going to live? You know? And we we already know that the, this is an administration that is willing to strand people overseas, like they did to a bunch of the USAID employees that were stationed overseas. And then they were just like,

not only were we eliminating your job, we're also not going to pay to fly you back. So have fun figuring out how to get home from Sudan or wherever. So it was a huge risk that they took. And so I, was very inspired by them. And I recognize that I'm in a very fortunate spot, this like weird intersection of, you know, I work in communication.

So I have the ability to put together an argument at a level that maybe not a lot of people have been trained to be able to do. I also, because I work in comms and because I work in politics, I have from the very beginning kept my digital online footprint separate from my husband. So like, I don't have to worry about, oh, God, if I say something now, I have 10 years of posting about him constantly that they could connect me to. And I'm really lucky that I have a partner that is like, yeah, girl, go get him. You know, like he understands that my career and my activism is really, important to me. And as long as I'm not just blatantly setting out to ruin his career, he is very accepting of the fact that like this is a calculated risk that I am taking.

So yeah, all that together, I think just put me in a very fortunate spot where I could be that mouse piece to try and put it in people's face. And yeah, as long as I'm in this position and I can do that, I'm going to continue to do that because I think the military industrial complex has gotten away with a lot for a really long time. And a huge part of that is because the people with with the most knowledge and ability to like push back on it are also the people who are most often silenced. That silencing that you spoke to is so real for so many issues. And I think the powers that B, kind of depend on the people who are closest to the harm, who can speak to the harm most clearly and saliently, also being silent. And then the people who can speak up, fully putting myself in this camp, are sometimes really only able to do so from this incredibly heady or logistical place.

But they're speaking about something that is deeply human and emotional at its core. Why do you think it's so easy to sort of skip over the human emotionality of these stories in favor of things like facts and figures? That's a really good question. I think it's probably a couple of factors because it's certainly not just like the things impacting military service members that we do that too, right? Like just look at like the entire conversation about Gaza, right? Like we get really focused because it's we can't understand what it's like to be living there. We can't like I have no way of even trying to put myself into that position. So it's just, I think it's partially that it's an easier leap in people's brains. I also think that again, it is partially just a democratic and leftist impulse that we always jump to the facts of the case and the logistics. Like, we want to know everything. And we're just, if we can just get you to see that you're being hypocrites, we can finally get you to stop. So I think that's partially it.

And I also think that there's some element to it that is the American people, I think, have been groomed to do that somewhat. Like, it's beneficial to the Trump administration if we skip over the emotion of it because it's a lot easier for the press secretary for the White House to get up there and be snide and dismissive and, like, mocking of reporters when they ask questions. related to the logistics, it's a lot harder for her to be dismissive and snide if the emotion of it is put in their face. And, yeah, so I think the Trump administration wants us to do that. They've been grooming us to do that. I also think that the media is kind of complicit in it.

Because when you have a media that is so overwhelmingly a certain type of person, a certain socioeconomic status of person. Like, they can only convey the emotion of the experiences that they understand themselves. And there aren't a lot of service members or military spouses that go on to become reporters. And so it's just most of the media doesn't have the ability to write about it. In the same way that, like, most of the media has, no idea about how to write about the emotion of Gaza or the emotion of being an undocumented immigrant. And so they don't. And so we get further groomed into not thinking about it or

caring about it. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriters, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. There's that worst singer in the group? The worst?

Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard.

But they're open to change. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle. A one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny.

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two. combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at IHeartadvertising.com. That's IHeartadvertising.com. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast's point game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs

without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers

why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone.

I'm Cheryl Strait, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast. called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges.

Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We're coming into this world fighting for our lives. All I'm going to do is pull out what you already got inside. we're there to support and celebrate each other. And that's not like your story versus my story. You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it.

Yep, yep, exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. The invasion of Iraq was my political awakening as a young person. My favorite cousin had enlisted. a few years earlier, and when President Bush announced that we were going to war, I honestly

thought we had to stop it so that he wouldn't be deployed. Eventually, he was deployed. But this was also the beginning of my time online. I was on message boards looking for protests trying to find folks who were organizing. Now, these days, everybody says they were against the Iraq war, but that's not how I remember it. What I remember is that if you were anti-war, like I was, people would say, oh, so you don't support the troops? Support our troops. Support our troops. troops kind of became this slogan that basically meant you could not criticize U.S. military policy, because if you did, you were somehow against the very people risking their lives. That was 2003.

Today, it feels like things have really changed. I feel like there was a time, especially for the Republican Party, where the troops were these, like, exalted people, and that you had to support the troops, you could not question the troops. Just like you were saying, this, like, massive hero narrative that these are people who are risking their lives and we have to do everything to support them, including not questioning what the government is doing with regards to service members. And today, seeing Republican leaders be so flippant about those very same service members when dismissing the fact that they needlessly

endangered their lives with Signalgate that just a few years ago we were saying were the most important people that you had to support the troops, it just really makes clear that maybe they didn't really give that much of a shit about service members and their families. Yeah, there's actually a specific moment in our history as a country that I would point to as being the moment where that shift started to happen. And it was during a Republican primary debate for the presidential race in 2008, somewhere around there. If anybody wants to watch what I'm talking about, it's literally featured in an episode, this is embarrassing to cite, but it's also featured in an episode of the newsroom.

So there's a moment where they are, you know, they have questions that are being asked by general, like normal people. And they have a soldier who is currently, he was stationed, he was deployed to either Afghanistan or Iraq. Like, as he was asking this question, they were video, videoing him in. And he says, because this is when don't ask, don't tell was still a thing. And so he says, you know, I am a gay service member. And all I want to do is serve my country.

Like I, this is very important to me. I want to continue to serve. I want to continue to put my life on the line. And of course, this is when there was like active war. So putting your life on the line, like really had weight to it at the moment at that time. And, you know, I want to know, are there any anyone on the. stage, any candidate that would be willing to do away with, don't ask, don't tell. So that service members like me don't have to hide who I am in order to serve my country. And not a single

person on that stage responded with any empathy towards him, with any respect for his service, and the overwhelming majority of the audience booed him. In 2010, when I was deployed to Iraq, I had to lie about who I was because I'm a gay soldier, and I didn't want to lose my job. My question is, under one of your presidencies, do you intend to circumvent the progress that's been made for gay and lesbian soldiers in the military? Before he had even finished asking this question, the audience was booing him. And I genuinely think that's the moment when it started to shift. And I think that a huge part of that shift is because the Republican Party only wanted to be. to focus on the emotional side of things when they could be assured that military service members

and their families were a silent audience that they could tokenize without any risk of them pushing back in the same way that the conservative party still tokenize it talks about like, oh, the unborn babies and this is why we're so, you know, because they know unborn babies, like literal zygote cannot speak up and be like, hey, actually we do support women's right to choose. So I think that was part of it. Once they realize that like at any moment, if we invoke the military and try to romanticize their service, somebody in that audience could stand up and be like, you motherfucker, how dare you invoke our service when you are sending us to die?

You know, just like the guy that threw his shoes at George W. Bush. And that's why, you know, in addition to my original Signalgate video, I had, I recorded myself when I called and talked to Senator Mark Wayne Mullen's office since he's my senator. Kendall recorded herself calling her Oklahoma Senator, Senator Mullins. And let's just say her anger comes through loud and clear. Quick heads up. There is a lot. of strong language and what you're about to hear. And so help me, God, if I have to quit my fucking job to make sure that I can drive to every fucking campaign and public event that the senator has for the rest of his career, I will make it my life's work to destroy his career by making sure that every fucking

Oklahoma knows how few fucks he gave about my husband's life and the lives of other active duty service members. But I do want to make it very clear. and I hope that you will take down this message and relay it to the senator to help encourage him to actually be a man and make sure that I get a call set up when I reach out to this scheduler. I want you to let him know that if he doesn't reach out to me, I'm recording every single time that I have called his office and left a voicemail or spoke to an intern like you. I am recording all of those. And if I don't hear back from him, I will be sending them to every possible newsroom, both in Oklahoma and nationally, to let them know that the senator, is too much of a coward to call back the wife of one of the service members in his constituency

that was put at risk. And so help me, God, if I have to quit my fucking job to make sure that I can drive to every fucking campaign and public event that the senator has for the rest of his career, I will make it my life's work to destroy his career by making sure that every fucking Oklahoma knows how few fucks he gave about my husband's life and the lives of other active duty service members. If I'd known that video, it was going to go viral. Side note, I would have cursed significantly less. I'm a little embarrassed that I curse this much on the phone to a U.S. Senator's office. But I straight up said, like, I don't care if I have to quit my job and make it my life's work to destroy Senator Mullen's career.

I will do it. I will drive to every fucking campaign of it he has for the rest of his life and be in the audience and be there to remind people of how few shits he gave about my husband's life and about the lives of other service members. And I want, not even just Republicans, I want all politicians to have them. that fear at all times. I want them to know at any moment if you tokenize someone, whether it's over their military service or your tokenizing DACA recipients or whatever it is, I want them to know at any moment someone could stand up in the audience and remind everyone at your event of the

actual humans behind what you are talking about. And I think if we could get politicians to feel that fear again on every topic, I think politics in our country would look a lot different. Yes, make politicians afraid again. And this is why I love your content because as you say on your TikTok, you're telling the stories of men in power and reminding you not to respect them. And showing people the layers of ways that they have screwed people that they supposedly say they care about. They've not upheld anything looking like, accountability to the people that they have been elected to serve. I don't know. I just, I really appreciate that about your content, that it's like about shifting our understanding of like, who works

for who, who should be afraid of who. I think that's the magic of the internet, you know, like, think about how many videos we've seen over the years of constituents trying to confront their elected official in Congress on any topic, whether it's military, health care, whatever. And almost without fail, those clips end with that member of Congress, getting into the congressional member only elevator, and then the doors slowly sliding shut in front of their face and protecting them from actually having to have that hard conversation with their constituent. And I think the magic of the internet is that it can knock those sliding elevator doors down.

They can't run from their constituents in the same way that they can in real life. And obviously, you know, there's other ways that they can dodge that when it's the internet, right? They can just pretend that they don't see it or whatever. But I think that's where I'm trying to utilize my content to prevent them from even being able to do that. Like, Mark Wayne Mullen cannot fucking pretend that he has not seen my videos. And I know he can't pretend that because there have been national reporters that have called his office and asked him for comment on them. There's not a chance in hell that man has not seen every video I have ever made about him. And I just, I, if I could like snap my fingers and have any wish come.

true, I would love to be able to, like, dedicate significant portions of my time and of my life, to being able to train other people on how to do what I'm doing right now. Like, I don't want to be the one person that's, like, seen as like, ooh, she's doing this thing, you know, like, I want there to be so many people doing the same exact thing that no one ever again thinks that, like, what I'm doing is special. or remarkable. Like, if I could completely drive myself out of a job as a content creator by getting enough people, other people to be doing the same thing, I would.

Because I really think that the internet is our best shot at holding these cowards accountable. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygle and friends. me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group. The worst?

Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yarn herds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard. They're open.

Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Huber me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartadvertising.com. That's iHeartadvertising.com.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toladano, and our podcast's point game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without. Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on all offense. And when IT's friends stopped by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court,

licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Cheryl Stray, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful things, I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable

challenges. Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We're coming into this world fighting for our lives. All I'm going to do is pull out what you already got inside. We're there to support and celebrate each other. And that's not like your story versus my story. You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it. Yep. Yep, exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. Rather than just preaching to the choir, Kendall has a

an entire series on how to talk to conservatives. In a digital climate that often prioritizes dunks and clapbacks, Kendall's taking a different approach, using the internet to have the kinds of conversations that might actually change hearts and minds. It's not about giving someone like me a quick dopamine fix or a smug sense of superiority. For her, it's about connection, persuasion,

and doing the harder work of actually reaching across divides. I feel like you're able to occupy this very specific lane where you're able to speak to people that might not be there yet and train other people on how they can do the same. Is that intentional with your sort of content strategy here? Yes, very much so. So first of all, okay, so this gets this gets dangerously close to a topic that I could rant about for hours. But I think genuinely one of the most destructive things that has happened in content creation rent large over the last. last several years and one of the most destructive things that TikTok specifically has groomed people

into doing is is viewing political content as solely through the lens of those like clapback videos that lots of people do right like I'm going to find a conservative doing the dumbest fucking video I can and then I'm going to take it and I'm going to respond to them I'm going to be smug and snide and I'm going to tell you why they are the dumbest piece of shit ever and then I'm going to get a hundred thousand likes on it. I'm going to make thousands of dollars, but have I moved to the needle in any way on any issue? No, absolutely not. So, I have to tell you, this comes up on the show. Like this, I, I am right there with you. I feel like that kind of content has made our entire discourse, especially online, so much worse. It's so harmful. And the thing that gets me about,

it is that like it is so like it's like when you eat a bunch of McDonald's and it tastes so good and then it's so empty in the end like it is so hollow and shallow but it's so like it scratches an itch I wish I didn't have and I think I'm seeing the results of that writ large on our on our social media discourse do you know what I mean like I'll just say yes I agree with you 100%. Yeah yeah I mean and that's the thing like when I say this about this content I I am not in any way judging people that consume that content because, hell, I consume that content. There are times where I really enjoy that content, you know, especially when we're in a society where it can feel like you are just like screaming into a void and being like, how are there so many people that think this is normal in any way? So like watching somebody get put in their place can feel satisfying.

But first of all, those people are not getting put in their place. Most of the people being featured in those videos are thrilled when they get featured in a leftist clapback video. Because all it does is drive up their engagement. These are just dollar tree, like store brand Tommy Lawrence. In the same way that Tommy Lauren used to intentionally piss people off in order to increase her stardom, at least she was like actually trying to reach like you know actually being on television these people are settling for like I just want to get 10,000 views on my TikTok video and make $100 off of it. But like it's the same general process, right? And like they just the two sides feed off of one another.

And it's just this like circular. I mean it's honestly. it's just a digital and political human centipede. They're just regurgitating the same shit into each other's mouth over and over and over again. Like not to be too graphic, but like that's what's happening. And so not only does that content not move the needle, I genuinely believe it pushes us further apart. It like increases the divide. And then politicians. Responditions respond to that widening divide by panicking and being like, oh, well, now we have to compromise on our values so that we can like chase after that other side that's moving further away from us. And then, you know, that's how you get politicians like John Federman just out there calling himself a Democrat and doing all the Republican things.

And like, I genuinely believe we don't have to compromise on any of our values. We just have to figure out how to talk about our values in a way that appeals to a conservative morality system. And so that's what I'm now focusing a lot of my content on doing is trying to help people learn that, like, you know, I use the moral foundation theory that Jonathan Haight came up with where he said, like, there's six different foundational blocks that people build their morality. off of. And people on the left tend to focus on two of those six. People on the right tend to focus on three of the six, and then the sixth one, both sides like. And so I think the biggest issue we have with leftist messaging right now is we're talking about these values in a way that appeals to our morality system, not theirs. And we can talk about it in a way that appeals to, I mean, like, for example, immigration. Like, we're talking about it from the perspective of, like, this, you know,

you have to be fair. It is, like, horrific and unfair to think about deporting a DACA recipient to a country that they have never called home. They might not even speak about the, speak that language, you know, all of that's true. All of that's true. And in a perfect world, at least in my opinion, that would be enough to convince people. But the reality is we don't live in a perfect world. and there's 50% of the country that doesn't give a shit that it's not fair. But if we can talk about it from the perspective of what that DACA recipient means to our country, like, you know, they're big into patriotism. And if we can talk about immigration from the perspective of like,

we are this incredible nation that is welcoming these people in. Like, these are people that believe in our way of life so strongly. that they just want to be a part of it, you know? And if we can talk about those values in that way, then we can actually start to like narrow that divide a little bit and hopefully win some of those people over. Because unfortunately, talking at them endlessly from our perspective and especially creating videos where we're making fun of them

and like, you know, making money off of being snagged towards them, that's not going to pull them in. That is not going to get them to change their mind on anything. Okay, if you're like me, this might be the moment where you're thinking, why is it on me to change these people's minds? Pendle gets that. She really does. I understand the criticism that probably a lot of people would have for my strategy by saying like, you know, these are people that have been super bigoted.

They've been so racist. They've been so homophobic and transphobic and all of the phobics. Like, I don't want to have to be nice to them. I don't want to have to do that labor. And I think that's totally fair for people to say, particularly more than any other group of people, I think black women, 100% get to say like, you know what, motherfuckers? The 92% is tired. So, like, you do your jobs.

we're going to be doing our thing. Fuck you. So like, I get that. But any person on the left that has a skin tone like mine, absolutely the fuck not. Like, you don't get to do what is fun or easy right now. We have work to do to repair the shit that we stood by as it got broken. And so I just, I want more people to start looking at their content,

more content creators in particular to start looking at their content from the perspective of what impact is this actually having beyond the check that I get from TikTok on the 15th of every month. And I'm really, really worried about what's going to happen if more content creators don't start doing that because I get why they don't, right? Like my content where I'm talking about here's how to talk to a conservative. universal health care or immigration or whatever, it doesn't perform anywhere nearly as well as, you know, these clapback videos. It also doesn't perform nearly as well as like my emotional videos that have gone viral. And so to use your metaphor of the McDonald's, right, that you eat

it and you don't feel satisfied, it is a little bit of a chicken and egg situation where it's like, okay, we can keep telling these content creators to create more useful content. We can keep telling McDonald's, you need to sell more vegetables. But if people keep going into McDonald's and only buying the french fries, eventually McDonald's is going to be like,

we can't do it. You motherfucker said you wanted vegetables and then none of you bought vegetables. And so we're going back to just selling french fries. And I think that there is a responsibility on the side of people who are consuming content to start really trying to work against our own impulses that we've been groomed to have to where like,

you know, hell, I have ADHD. Anytime I see like a 10-minute-long video on TikTok, I'm like, oh, my God, why are you lecturing? 10 minutes! Shut up! Can you not tell me in like 45 seconds? Come on, guys. But like, I'm really trying to fight that impulse

more often now because I recognize if I just scroll on I'm doing I'm being the person standing outside of McDonald's yelling at them for not selling me vegetables when I wasn't buying vegetables and so

I think it has to be an effort on both sides of the process both the creation and the consumption and I think if we don't fix it I don't know where we'll be in a few years in our country because right now the right is kicking our ass online and we have to figure out a way to fix it. I've had a personal sort of quandary, you know, after Trump was elected,

I was really getting a lot of shot in Freud. I would say that word wrong. From like, oh no, like I never thought the leopard was going to eat my face. And something about that, those, that content was like clearly feeling a need for me. And then someone was like, you know, you know, so I live in D.C. And when all when federal workers were all being fired and like targeted, people were saying like, oh, a lot of those federal workers were Trump voters. And so they're getting what they asked for.

Maybe they didn't think it was going to be them. And someone was like, you know, we kind of need these people. Like the people who are speaking up and being like, dang, I feel like I got, you know, taken for a ride by Trump, somebody that I put my faith in and I trusted and he turned on me. I understand. And nobody understands the impulse to laugh at those people more than me. And I'm sad to say that I have. But at a certain point, don't we want people who are able to see that they made a mistake and are able to call out that they were misled?

I feel angry that these people abdicated their responsibility to put effort into who they voted for and be a thoughtful consumer of, you know, American democracy. but sort of just stroking my rage boner when they speak up about it isn't getting us anywhere. Don't we kind of like, isn't it sort of what we want for them to be talking about? Like, oh yeah, I was misled. I got it wrong. Right. Yeah. Well, and the weird thing is, is honestly, I hate to break it to other people on the left.

We're not always great at guessing which people were Trump supporters. I can't even tell you how many leftists I've had coming. into my comments, especially on Instagram and be like, well, you got what you wanted. You got what you voted for. So fuck you. And I'm like, uh, my friend, I not only voted for Kamala Harris.

I literally worked for her campaign. I could not have been more like pro Kamala in this election cycle if I tried, right? But like all they see is you're talking about the military. You're married to somebody in the military. Obviously, you

must be on the right. And like, that's bad because like if you're being like if you're pushing me away as somebody that's like dedicating my life to trying to win things for our side of the aisle how are people that are actually on the right that are like conceding that they messed up how are they going to respond to those kind of comments you're only going to push them back into the cult but I will also say I do understand like the need for that like I can't like I can't even tell you how many Francesca Ramsey videos I've watched of her with her ukulele singing about the leopards eating their face. And so I get it. And I think we can still have that content.

It's just a matter of making sure it's targeting the people that actually deserve it and that aren't just everyday people. So like, I will watch every possible video of Dave Portnoy being sad about losing $20 million. Like fuck that guy. Fuck you Dave Fortnoy. Like, I don't feel sorry for him. He deserves it and like everyone should laugh at him.

In the same way that like there is not a song in the world that you could set that video of Richard Spencer getting punched in the head to that I wouldn't stop and watch it like four times in a row. Every time. Forever my favorite video. But there's a difference

between Dave Portnoy and Richard Spencer and like random single mom of three working, you know, as a assistant manager at a Ross dress for less and living in a prefab trailer park, you know, like she doesn't need to be mocked because ultimately she got tricked. She got hoodwinked. That does not excuse whatever horrible shit she has said or even continues to say to other people online, particularly marginalized communities. But if she is coming out and saying, hey, I screwed up. I realized I screwed up when I went to get my groceries and I found out my food stamps got cut off or whatever. Like, we can have discussions with her later about her other problematic shit that she's doing.

but when she first says, hey guys, I think we screwed up, I think our response should be, yes, welcome, welcome to our side. Now how can we help you go convince 10 of your friends that they also screwed up? Because it's not just about making sure we don't push her back into the cult. It's about recognizing that the people that are in her life are going to listen. to her all day long and like take that that is going to mean more to them than you could show them every single video I have ever made and it's not going to convince them as much as her talking to them. And so we need to stop pushing people back into the cult and we need to start

giving them the tools necessary and empowering them to start being the pipeline out of that for the people in their life. Like, there's a reason why the alt-right pipeline is so attractive to people. It's because it's easy to go down, and everyone's nice to you along the way, and everyone, like, tells you how smart you are for, like, getting into the pipeline in the first place. So, like, we need to start building the pipeline going the opposite direction. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group. The worst?

Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, uh, You only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard herds, right? That's the name.

The Harvard Yardt, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Human me.

I need some jokes to make me. See funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business.

Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartadvertising.com. That's iHeartadvertising.com. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series. because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get to fly. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the bar like,

after you go through a training camp with that, I say, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the balls. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone. I'm Cheryl Strayed, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things.

I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix. So we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside.

We're coming into this world, fighting for our lives. All I'm going to do is pull out what you already got inside. We're there to support and celebrate each other. And that's not like your story versus my story. You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it. Yep, yep, exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it.

Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. As someone who is so good at putting your opinions out into the world using social media, even when there's this like chilling effect to do so, even when you're like, you know, dog-biled for doing so, what keeps you doing it? Like, what keeps you logging on and continuing to put your ideas out there? I mean, part of it is, okay, this is going to sound really weird, but I weirdly think having depression has made it a lot easier to do this and survive it because I know I am at the end of the day, if I have to lay down and close my eyes to go to sleep and my options are either I'm going to be thinking about the fact that I'm, I said nothing, I did nothing. Our democracy is sliding further into fascism. More people are being hurt.

More innocent people are being deported to an El Salvadorian concentration camp because I said nothing. That is a lot harder for me to live with than if I do say stuff and when I lay down at night and I close my eyes, the last thing that I'm thinking about is how, you know, Steve 047.4.7. on Twitter thinks that I'm a fat bitch. Like, I will sleep soundly knowing that Steve thinks I'm a fat bitch. I will not sleep soundly knowing that I did nothing and I said nothing and things got worse. When you go to sleep that night, what will prevent you from getting a good night's sleep? And it's not like riling up shithead Steve 0556 on Twitter. It's actually doing something, saying something, speaking up.

Yeah, and on top of that, you know, like just as a little added bonus for myself, like, you know, as I'm doing this content, like the main videos, that's for everyone. The part I'm doing for me is when I'm responding to those insults and being funnier than they could ever possibly hope. That's the part. That's just for me. That's my little treat. And so the fact that I get to go to sleep at night knowing that I did something. I said something. And yeah, Steve thinks I'm a fat bitch, but also Steve's going to sleep tonight, knowing that I made a very funny joke about his bald spot. And that's going to eat at him. That's the, like, oh, I sleep very well when I get to know. Because like, oh, my God, I think the thing that blew my mind the most, this entire experience has been, you know, tens of thousands of insults later.

not a single one of them has been funny. I'm a deeply insultable person. I mean, Jesus Christ, I cut my own bangs, y'all. My bangs look like shit 100% of the time. They are uneven and janky. Like, you could make a hundred jokes about that. That would be so much funnier than just calling me a cow. So I just, in the same way that I want the left to get better at talking about our values and winning people over, I just want conservatives to get funnier.

Because Jesus Christ, if I'm going to have to interact with you, I at least want it to be funny. And I can take a good insult as long as it's funny. So please, please just learn from me. Develop the ability to insult someone in a way that's funny. Step your game up, Steve. 0564 on Twitter, or if they really wanted to be smart, they could hire you as a digital strategist.

You would write for them. The money would go right into your pocket and then the insults would improve. Yeah. I mean, I've thought about creating a TikTok series that's like, Comedy 101 for conservatives because, like, I mean, it's not even their fault.

Like, when the best example of conservative comedy that you have is like Stephen Crowder and Greg Gutfeld, No wonder you're not funny. Come on. Jesus. So they're just regurgitating the things that those two say. And it's like, it wasn't funny when they said it. It's extra not funny when y'all are repeating it. So just conservatives, if you're listening to this, please for the love of God. Just please, please get better at comedy. Speaking from the perspective of someone that's not only a content creator but is also a digital strategist, I think one of the things that the right did during this last election cycle that the left did not do enough of and also did not do nearly as well as the right is having a strategy. where non-political content creators were getting content out to their audiences about politics, whether that was them talking about it themselves or them just quietly reposting stuff from other people. And I think that we need to accept, like, the party as a whole needs to accept,

but also like anyone that cares about the direction of our country needs to accept. There are only so many people who are going to willingly watch explicitly political content. The reality is the majority of people do not give a shit about political content, will never watch it. And I think simultaneously, while, yes, the piece of the puzzle that I am doing, I think is very important. and training people to talk to conservatives, I think equally important is empowering content creators in radically different spaces,

whether it's true crime or makeup tutorials or muckbangs or whatever. I think that the obstacles that we are facing are monumental enough that just getting political content creators to do the right thing and to say the right things and, like, do our part is not going to be enough. So if you are a content creator of any type at all, I would very much encourage you to try and figure out what is the piece of this puzzle that I can be playing. It doesn't have to look like creating political content.

And I would be happy if there's any content creator that hears this, that wants to do that and isn't sure how to please reach out to me. I will help you figure out a way. And oh my God, if you work for any political campaign on the left at all, please make that a part of your strategy. And if you need help figuring out how to make that a part of your strategy, please reach out to me because, like, I mean, as stupid as it was, Trump's strategy of talking to like Aidan Ross and the Paul brothers and all of that.

That was a hugely influential into his win. And we have to do that or we are going to keep losing. So I can't tell you how many people that I've interviewed from all different spectrums of like content or digital strategy who are all saying the left needs to be making huge investments with content creators, podcasters. I firmly, like I mean this like literally, I think we have Trump in office again because of podcasters. Like I think that podcasters shifted the landscape of our political fabric. And we need to just like understand that and get on board. It's not too late, but we have a lot of

ground to make up for and now is the time. Yes. Oh yeah. We coasted for so long. And this is not even the only time that we've done this. Like, I mean, I've been doing digital strategy for long enough that, and I know you were also around in seeing this like when digital first became a thing. ooh, we were like, we were confident. We were like, the Republicans are never going to catch up with us. We are so much better at the internet than they are. What a time to be alive. That was a great feeling, but it was not an impulse that we should have listened to because, oh, no.

We were so confident that we were at the, you know, front of the pack that we just slowed down to a leisurely stroll. and they just ran right past us. And we caught up and then the same thing is happening now with like podcasts and things like that. So yeah, I think you are right about podcasts. We have to, we just have to stop congratulating ourselves on how good we are at certain things and start focusing on getting better at the stuff

that they are clearly kicking our ass on. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoati.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.

Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guide. Quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam, Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Tolodano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was finally. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

Then after that game seven, Marquis come in, he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's a Shanti Plummer from Futterout and Find out. week, AZ Fudd and I sat down with Step and Curry. Step talks pressure,

confidence, and what it really takes to stay great. There's different categories, I guess, on, like, conditioning, shooting drills where you try to simulate kind of games. Look at her face. We have a love-hate relationship with those, because you know you're getting something out of it. You don't look forward to those days.

Listen to Fud around and find out on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move, and he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him. Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. guaranteed human.