There Are No Girls on the Internet - Stuff Mom Never Told You: Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson is the first Black female SCOTUS nominee

Episode Date: March 22, 2022

Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson is the first Black woman to be nominated to the Supreme Court of the United States. And because she’s a Black woman, her nomination and confirmation process will be filled with racist, sexist, disinformation.    Bridget joined Sam and Anney at the podcast Stuff Mom Never Told You to talk through her historic nomination and why we need a digital media climate that allows for everyone to be judged by their actions, values, and merit, not racist, sexist caricatures and disinformation. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or wherever you get your podcast. There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. On March 21st, the confirmation hearing for Supreme Court Justice nominee, Judge Kintaghi Brown-Jackson, begins in the United States. Now, her nomination is historic. She's the first black woman ever nominated for the Supreme Court. And because she's a black woman, her confirmation hearing is sure to be filled with disinformation based in racist, sexist attacks on her character, not her actual record. actions, deeds, or values. And in fact, these attacks started before she was ever named as the nominee when she was just a hypothetical black woman that Biden intended to nominate to the Supreme Court.

On the morning that Judge Jackson was named as the nominee, I sat down with my friend Sam and Annie from the podcast Stuff Mom Never Told You to talk through her historic nomination and how we can fight back against the kinds of racist, sexist attacks we're sure to hear during her confirmation hearing. It is so important that we have a digital media climate that allows for everyone to be judged by their merits, values, and records, not unfair caricatures and stereotypes of who they are. Hey, this is Annie. And Samantha. And welcome to Steph I've Never Told You, a production of IHeart Radio. Today, we are once again thrilled to be joined by the amazing, award-winning, fantastic Bridget Todd, who we account ourselves so lucky to know and call our friend. Congratulations, Bridget, on your recent award for Best Technology Podcast at the IHeart Radio Podcast Awards. Well deserved. That's so awesome. Congratulations to you and your whole team. Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much. Yeah. You know what? I'm going to say it feels freaking good to win.

I was kind of like, oh, like, you know, just being nominated is nice. But I, deep down kind of, you ever have one of those times in your life where you just really need a win? I would say that's where I was at. So I have to like briefly shout out my team. Tari Harrison is my producer and engineer. She's phenomenally talented. Jonathan Strickland is our EP, phenomenally talented. Dr. Michael Amato is our chief science officer and producer. So talented.

I could not have one without them. They're so awesome. Yeah, so thank you. Yes. We love a win, especially when it's our personal friends. Yeah, I said it. I'm claiming you as a personal friend. I know Bridget.

Thank you very much. I mean, I feel the same way about you. I feel very honored to know you all in real life. Yes, yes. And in case you don't know listeners, which I'm assuming you do, this is for the podcast, there are no girls on the internet, which is you've got a new season coming, right? Yes, yeah, I probably should have said the name of my own podcast.

No, I do that all the time. I'm trying to get better at like self-promotion. Yes, the podcast is called There Are No Girls on. on the internet. We just won an I-Hard Award. And we're coming back for a brand new season on March 1st. So we've kind of been on hiatus for a bit while we've been retooling. And I'm so excited that we're finally launching. So it would mean a lot to me if y'all checked it out. Thank you for mentioning and Annie. I obviously cannot be trusted to remember to say the name of the thing I meant to be promoting. But yeah, please check it out. We have all kinds of interesting

conversations about how women and queer folks and trans folks and other marginalized voices, show up or don't show up online and in technology. So yeah, please check it out if that sounds like something you're interested in. You absolutely should. I'm still waiting for the fan fiction episode. I'm ready. Oh, yes, TBD. Also, just a fun fact about Tari, who's also a good friend of ours.

She always sings sitcom jingles at karaoke. It's a thing I adore about her. And she refuses to sing anything else. And when someone interrupts her, she gets very annoyed. rightly so because this is her thing and she wants it and has claimed it and has done well with it. How have I worked with Tari for two years

and have not, I mean, I guess COVID as hell, but I didn't know this. I need to take her out for karaoke to see this in action. Oh, you know what? What's the better? Bridget, we need you to come to Atlanta and we'll host a big karaoke night.

There's several great locations that we love, including my favorite spot towards Beechford Highway, ran by a Korean family, who was this Korean, and as you think, and we adore them, and they bring us fruit plays. It's a delight while we sing karaoke to our heart's content.

Yes, please put that on the agenda. The last time I was in Atlanta, I went to, what is that spot called? Church of ping pong? Church. Yeah. And there was some karaoke happening. It was pretty fun.

So, yeah, Atlanta karaoke date, literally any time. I am in. I need to see producer Tari in action, singing these jingles. It's the best. She pulled me up once time, and she's like, we're singing tears together. I was like, okay. I love it.

I love it. I love it. I love it. Okay, so this topic you're bringing to us today, Bridget, is extremely timely. We're very excited to talk about it. And we have a lot to get into. So let's get into it. What are we talking about today?

So today is Friday, February 25th, 2020. And I want to talk about the just recently announced new nominee for the Supreme Court. at Judge Katanji Brown Jackson. So I have to admit, I was putting together all my notes for this episode last night. And so the notes were all like, oh, the potential nominee. Like, when we have the nominee, it was all very, like, hypothetical. And then this morning, the news just dropped that she is indeed the White House's pick to be the first ever black woman Supreme Court justice on our Supreme Court.

So very historic, very important, very exciting. But we know that it also comes along with racist attacks. sexist attacks, mis and disinformation that women of color who are in public office, unfortunately, tend to face. And so today I really wanted to talk about how we got to this place of having this historic black woman being nominated for the Supreme Court and what kind of attack she's likely to be facing, what kind of attack she's already been facing, and how we can sort of all work together to create the conditions to have a better conversation about her nomination.

Yes. And as you said, this is very ongoing. We're trying to get this episode out as quickly as possible because things are changing very quickly. But we've already seen some of these attacks. I know we're going to get into that in a minute. But before we do that, can you give us some history and background on what's going on here? Absolutely.

So here's a little bit of background about the calls to nominate a black woman for the Supreme Court. I have to shout out the She Will Rise campaign organized by a great organization called Cistis Cotus. And their whole coalition is full of dynamic black women, women like April Rain, who created the hashtag Oscar So White, a 1619 project creator Nicole Hannah-Jones, Alencia Johnson, who I love, I used to work with her at Planned Parenthood,

Broadway multi-tony award winner, Audra McDonald. So just a huge coalition of dynamic, badass black women who have been advocating to put a black woman on the Supreme Court. And so in the over 200-year history of the Supreme Court, not one black woman has ever been confirmed or even nominated to serve on the Supreme Court. There have been 115 men and women who have served on the Supreme Court, and only three of them have been people of color. There have only been two black American members

of the Supreme Court, Justice Thurgood Marshall and Justice Clarence Thomas. And so that's obviously not a very inclusive track record in terms of representation. And, you know, this idea of, I thought this was kind of a new precedent, you know, a presidential candidate saying, like, oh, if I'm elected, I will put this kind of person

on the Supreme Court. However, there is actually a long history and precedent for presidents pledging to pick a SCOTUS nominee who represents a certain demographic of our population. So this is from a really great New York Times op-ed by Walter Dellinger, who was the acting Solicitor General of the United States under Bill Clinton. He writes, there is a long and important tradition of presidents taking into consideration the demographic characteristics of prospective justices, including geographic background, religion, race, and sex to ensure the Supreme Court is and remains a representative. representative institution in touch with the varied facets of American life. More fundamentally, our history shows the process of reaching out to expand the personal backgrounds of the justices has often produced stellar jurists who make historic contributions to our court and judicial system. So he goes on to describe how President Reagan promised to nominate a woman to the Supreme Court,

and even though a bunch of his Republican colleagues were very vocally against it and kind of forced him to add some manduish shortlist, President Reagan was really adamant about picking a woman, and eventually nominated Sandra Day O'Connor, making for the first ever female associate Supreme Court justice. And so that's some, like, history that I didn't even know about, you know, how other presidents have set this precedent to make the Supreme Court more inclusive. Yeah, and I think, I mean, it's kind of a waste of breath to call a lot of news organizations and Republicans perhaps if they're critical, but they would have you believe that this is a new thing.

Like, oh, this has never happened before and it's ridiculous. Right, and this is not just an issue of representation, correct? Absolutely. So representation is important. People often say, like, representation matters. And it absolutely does. I'm not, you know, disagreeing with that. However, it's not just a problem because representation matters.

It's also a problem because we deserve a representative democracy, a democracy where the people who are governing actually are able to meaningfully represent the people they are governing on behalf of. And you can't have that if your Supreme Court is mostly men, mostly white, because then you have a Supreme Court is not actually able to, you know, meaningfully represent the people they're meant to be advocating on behalf of or working on behalf of. A biographical database from the Federal Judicial Center shows that of the 3,843 federal judges, less than 2% have been black women. And so, again, it's not just the Supreme Court. It really does go to show that we have a long way to go in making sure that the people who are, actually representing us in the courts,

actually are able to meaningfully represent us and look like the population that they're actually meant to serve? Yes, yes. And I think right now, a lot of us, for a good reason, I would say, are on edge when it comes to the Supreme Court and decisions that they're tackling or thinking about, including abortion.

So this is very, very, very important that we are representing accurately our country, the people in our country. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

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If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and your 20s, they can feel like a lot.

On the psychology of your 20s podcast, we unpack the anxiety, the overthinking, the heartbreak, the identity crisis, all of it that comes with being in your 20s. Because if you've ever thought, is anybody else feeling this way, they definitely are. I feel like my 20s was a process of checking off everything that I was not good at to get to what I was good at. Oftentimes we take everything a little bit too seriously and we get lost in things that we later on decide weren't even important to us to begin when. There was a large chunk of my 20s that I was just so wanting to be out of that phase out of my skin. And I just like really regret not living in the present more. Each week we break down the science behind what you're going through and give you real tools to navigate it.

Your 20s aren't about having it all figured out. They're about understanding yourself just a little. little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So can we talk a little bit about the promise Biden made when it comes to nominating a black woman to the Supreme Court? Absolutely. So this is one of those instances where Biden made a very clear campaign promise. Certainly the administration has made other campaign promises and TBD if they will come to fruition. But this was a very very very, clear one. So this is sort of making good on a very explicit promise. You might hear black women

referred to as the backbone of the Democratic Party. And that's because we are reliable voters who tend to vote Democrat and we tend to go out there and organize our friends and our family and our communities to also vote as well. If you look at the numbers, you know, black women, I think it was like less than 1% of black women voted for Trump. So we pretty much, we are pretty reliable voters for the Democrats. I guess I'll put it that way. And an overwhelming majority of black women, I think it was 93%, supported Biden during his presidential bid in 2020. Right before voting began in South Carolina during South Carolina's primary, Biden made a very clear campaign promise to nominate a black woman to the Supreme Court. And so, yeah, this was a very clear promise that he made to a constituency that is reliable, that is really did a lot of the work and a lot of the ground game of getting out the vote and organizing our community.

to get out the vote as well. Right. And going back to what you mentioned when it comes to all of these sexist, racist attacks that a lot of women and women of color and especially black women face when it comes to elections like this or nominations like this, and then also misinformation and disinformation, it's one thing to kind of say that, like, okay, let's elect a black woman and then another to provide the necessary support. Absolutely.

So, you know, we hear, like, I have a shirt that says trust black women. You know, we hear a lot of slogans about, you know, the importance of electing black women and really amplifying our political leadership. And again, I feel like that is great. Representation is so great. However, it really does need to go along with the work of creating the conditions of these women will be supported. But they're not, it's going to be, you know, fodder for unfair, sexist, racist attacks. purely based on their identity, who they are. And so I don't want to just have black women or women or women of color.

I don't want to just have us be amplified as leaders if we're going to be set up to fail, if we're going to be set up to compete in a completely unequal playing field. I want to amplify the leadership of women, but I also want to create the conditions that we actually can thrive. And so I think that that's really what I want to get into today about some of the ways, that our media landscape are kind of set up to ensure that this person will not get a fair shake. I have to say, like, I wasn't really thrilled watching Jin Saki from the White House

kind of give this tepid acknowledgement of the kind of racism and sexism that would go along with picking a black woman for the Supreme Court nominee. She said that Biden's intention to pick a black woman for the Supreme Court presented, quote, specific challenges. But in my opinion, that really doesn't go far enough in naming and lifting up the kind of racist

sexist attacks and media climate that are setting this person up to face. And that can really be tricky because, as I'm sure a lot of people listening can probably attest to, it can be sometimes difficult to call out the kind of unfair attacks that we face as marginalized people. So if you're a woman who is facing sexism, sometimes if you are the one to vocalize that, that only kind of goes against you because then you're the complainer, you're the nag. And so if you're in a climate where you can't really call out what you're facing and the people around you aren't going to explicitly call out what you're facing, then it's just allowed to fester, like uncalled out. Yeah, I found it interesting because as you had brought this to our attention, I hadn't realized he had made an announcement. We just knew the promises that President Biden had given, finally naming a name and trying to look her up and seeing who she was.

Of course, one of the top things that I saw was a congressman going in on attacks and being repeatedly attacking them. Just obviously already ready to go. Oddly enough, the same congressman was the one that had been one of three Republicans who had voted her in her federal seat. And we were like, wait, so how is she called by then and not now? But we know the answer, obviously, of why they are very upset about this pick in general. In all of the game of politics, we understand that. But as it comes along, that is part of that conversation where I'm like, I know, I don't even want to mention who it is because I don't want to amplify that even more. Instead, let's talk about her qualifications and why she is qualified to lead us in this type of position.

Absolutely. So even before Judge Jackson was named as the nominee, people were wasting no time lobbying these completely ridiculous, unfair sexist attacks on her. Just we don't even know who she is. She was just a hypothetical person. Senator John Kennedy, he told Politico, I want a nominee who knows a law book from a J-Crew catalog. I want a nominee who's not going to try to rewrite the Constitution every other Thursday to advance a woke agenda.

And he was saying this, we didn't even know who this person was yet. And they were already lobbying these racist, sexist attacks. Like, why do you assume that she's not going to know a legal brief from a J-Crew catalog? Like, that's, like, reading between the lines that is obviously meant to be a sexist swipe because Biden had already expressed his intentions to nominate a black woman. Why do you assume this person is going to be, you know, pushing a woke agenda? And what does that even mean? I think when you really pull apart some of these dog whistles that are used, it just reveals itself as unfair attacks rooted in identity or just complete hypocrisy.

Like just like what you were saying, were you referencing Lindsey Graham who was, you know, I think it was literal. So I've been up working on this since like all day, right? I watched the announcement come in. I watched all the responses. Lindsay Graham tweeted literal minutes after she was announced saying, quote, the radical left had won over Biden. Yet Graham also voted to confirm Judge Jackson to the D.C. federal appeals court, which is the second most important court in the country just eight months ago this past summer.

So which is it? Is this a win for the woke left? And like what was different eight months earlier when you voted to confirm her? So it's just very interesting. At this point, I wouldn't even like, the hypocrisy is so clear, but it's almost sort of like not worth pointing out. It's like, of course, you are only interested in a bad faith assessment. You don't even expect people to look back at your own voting record to see where you actually stand on this issue.

You're just counting on people not actually spending a little bit of time and thinking about what you're saying. Right. Yeah. We're both shaking our head with frowns. It's true, though. It's so frustrating because it's like every time I point out something that's hypocritical, it doesn't matter anymore. They're like, yeah, of course it is.

I mean, essentially, it's kind of what we were talking about when Amy Barrett Cohen was confirmed as well as Kavanaugh about the ridiculous hypocrisy that happened between Obama administration and the Trump administration. And now we're back again. Now we're here again to the same conversation. And literally half of the Republican candidates or the conservative. politicians will agree, yeah, this is hypocritical. This is what we do. And they kind of just leave it at that and assume that nobody will notice. And typically people who are already dug their hills in don't notice, won't notice because they want what they want in whatever agenda it is they have planted themselves firmly in. But yeah, let's talk about the fact, this is a whole different conversation, but that we have different types of terms and words like woke that have been used as a positive has now flipped so hard to a negative that every, is automatically like, oh, he said it, he's right, it's bad. Oh, my gosh.

I could talk all day. I'll just say, so I have two things to say about this. One is that you are so right. There are so many words that have just become meaningless, right? So if you're talking about a hypothetical Supreme Court nominee and you're like, oh, we don't want somebody who's woke, you don't know any, this person is a hypothetical person, so you're not, you don't know anything about their record. You don't know anything about like where they stand on the issues.

So saying woke, it almost just, the only thing we know about this person is that she's going to be a black woman. So saying you don't want someone who is woke, reading between the lines, you're using that as a stand-in for the word black, right? And so I think that we see that time and time again where these words become stand-ins for identity and they also kind of become meaningless, right? Like, cancel culture is another one. I remember reading, this is sort of silly, but there was a little. this story a while ago where this guy who had been running a racehorse in the Kentucky Derby, his racehorse had been

I don't know, I'm sure there's more details to it, but essentially his racehorse had been drug tested and he had been like found to have drugs in a system so he was disqualified. And in an interview he was like, oh, this is cancel culture strikes again. And I was like, what are you even talking about? How are this cancel culture? Like, in what way?

You got caught. Yeah, you got caught. doping your horse and your horse was disqualified, that's not cancel culture. Even, like, I just have a lot of questions about the way that these words are being used. But I think, and that's kind of the second point that I want to make about this, is that one of the reasons why I am so adamant about things like disinformation, misinformation, and just having a healthier, more honest conversation

and a media landscape that facilitates those kinds of conversations is that we are no longer able to have substantive, thoughtful conversations about the issue when our ecosystem is flooded with bad faith, clearly hypocritical rhetoric and discourse. And so, you know, even if you're someone, let's say that you're listening and you are very conservative, you know, you probably have hated this conversation that we've been having. But, you know, like, even if you're someone who is very conservative, you deserve to be able to, you know, talk about your issues, talk, have a substantive conversation and a substantive debate about where you stand on the issues. And so I believe that when the discourse and the space is just flooded with, you know, charged rhetoric where we're talking

about race or identity, but using different words, everybody loses because you're not able to have a substantive conversation about where you might agree or disagree with the Supreme Court nominee, right? And so I think that that's my biggest issue is that we have a media ecosystem that really amplifies the most extreme, the most over-the-top statements, or the most nonsense statements. And so everybody loses, Democrat, Republican, conservative, lefty, whoever, everybody loses when we have an ecosystem that amplifies the least substantive takes because that takes away from the ability to have an actual substantive, thoughtful, debate, or conversation about the actual issues. And so I don't want to create the conditions

for Judge Jackson to only be judged by racist, sexist, tropes or caricatures or unfair attacks, because I want to talk about her actual credentials. I want to talk about her actual record. I want to talk about her actual character. But disinformation and misinformation does not allow for the actual issues to take the center stage that they should. Right.

You just kind of explained my whole conversation with my parents over the holidays. But we won't get into that right now. I'm just going to put that there. It was interesting. But, you know, and I'm thinking about this, because when we talk about these terms and automatically just becoming used by media as an ecosystem

to bring in the shock value, it makes me also realize that in terms of what they're talking about in woke, it is a black term that was created by the black community to kind of gift non-black people with, hey, you woke up, congratulations. You're finally seeing what we have been going through, all of our generations. Welcome, you have woke.

Like, that's kind of that term. And I hate that it has been weaponized to this point of being used against people. And when they're using it, when Kennedy used this, he was weaponizing this terms to a woman, to an official, to a judge, to a professional who didn't need to be woke. She was already there. This was her life. And not only that, if we do look at her backgrounds and credentials, she has been doing this. work. There's no conversation of her being woke. She just is. So with that, because I'm angry about this, can we talk about some of those qualifications? Oh, absolutely. So one of the best ways to counter

all the kinds of BS racist, sexist attacks that you're definitely going to hear about, Judge Jackson, is to flood the space to counter that with accurate information. So I'm super excited to talk about her actual qualifications. So a little bit of background information about Judge Jackson. She was born in Washington, D.C. Shout out to D.C. where I am also from. She grew up in Miami, Florida. Her parents started their career as public school teachers and then later became administrators in the Miami-Dade County public school system.

I love this little fun fact about her. Judge Jackson was a star student, but she was told not to set her sights too high by a guidance counselor when she told that guidance counselor that she wanted to go to Harvard. And guess where she ended up going to college? Harvard.

Harvard. Harvard. Oh, it's just guess. That's right. So she definitely like shut that. guidance counselor right up. She studied government at Harvard University and attended Harvard Law School where she was the supervising editor of the Harvard Law Review. So her educational credentials are pretty solid. Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. I love that too. I hope that the

guidance counselor knows. Oh, he knows now. Obviously. So something else about her is that she is absurdly qualified in experience. So this is from Steve Ladek. Judge Jackson has 8.9 years of prior judicial experience. That's more than four of our current justices, Thomas, Roberts, Kagan, and Barrett had combined. It's also more than four of the last 10 justices had at their confirmations, nine of the last 17, and 43 of 58 appointed since 1900. So anybody who tells you she is not experienced, anybody that tells you that she's not qualified, anybody that tells you that she only got this position because she's a black woman is just misinformed and they're spreading misinformation because, as we can see, she's very qualified, more qualified than, you know, some of the current Supreme Court justices. Right. Which is infuriating. But yes. Also, as you mentioned, she's already gone through a lot of vetting, right?

Absolutely. So this is something else that I think people really need to understand. She has been vetted a ton. She has a proven track record. of attracting bipartisan support in the Senate. She's already been confirmed three times on a bipartisan vote, so there is no reason to not expect the same now that she's being considered for the Supreme Court. Again, Lindsay Graham voted to confirm her, Murkowski voted to confirm her, and Collins voted to confirm her, right?

So these are Republicans who broke ranks with their party to side with Democrats to vote to confirm her. And so having already gone through this process, I would really want, you know, someone like Lindsay Graham to sit down with me and explain what changed or something. the last eight months when he voted to confirm her to the second most important court in the country to now if he is saying that she is not an appropriate choice.

The same with Collins and Murkowski. There's no reason to expect that she should not be able to be confirmed by the Senate, considering she's been vetted and gone through this process three different times before. There are certain people that, like, thinking about talking to them makes my skin crawl. Likram is one of them. But yes. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.

Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-844-Eyeheart. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month,

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I do find it interesting, and this is a whole different conversation again. You know how I'll have to sidetrack. That it is an interesting strategy that Biden and his administration has pulled, not only because this is obviously telling is like, okay, this is one of the most qualified people that we could find that we think is deserving and has earned a place in this position. if you who oppose everything we do are starting to start arguing, it's going to be a telltale sign of who you are and what you're doing. So it's an interesting turn. Again, that's a whole different conversation because I've always interested in good political thriller.

And this feels like, you know, I have to do everything a little fictional or movie-esque. Yeah. It's so true. Because like, you know, I was thinking about that this morning. I do think it's clear to me that the administration picked someone who had already been like, gone through this process a few times just so that it would be, you know, to sort of shut down any kind of, you know, consternation there might be in terms of like, you know, like vetting her and all of that. And I think it really demonstrates something. I'm not totally sure,

this is not a completely fleshed out thought, and I'm not totally sure how it fits into this conversation. But I do think there is this standard for women, women of color, and black women, where we have to be extra special qualified. Kind of that standard of women have to do 130, 40, 50 percent more than men in general. And then when you're a part of the marginalized community, add on another 20 percent. And then if you're a black woman, add on another 30 percent of exceeding the standard, exceeding the qualifications, because for some reason, you have to be on that level in order to be seen as serious. So that's just in general.

So let's put that in this federal level where they are putting her under a microscope in every way. And not only putting her under a microscope to twist and turn truths, they're going to tell flat out lies. We know this. It's already happening. That's what they're doing. And we saw this with Kamala Harris, which I really found fascinating because Kamala Harris has a track record as the attorney general. They blasted her, rightfully so, for her track record in criminalizing people in general. And when I found out Judge Jackson comes from the public defender filled, correct?

That's right. So super, super exciting. Not only would she be historic as the first black woman on the Supreme Court, but also the first public defender to serve on the court, which is a big deal. She has a long personal history of working as a public defender while she was at Harvard, a relative was sentenced to life in prison for a nonviolent drug offense. And she helped convince a law firm to take his case pro bono, eventually leading to having President Obama commute his sentence. And so it is a big deal to have somebody on the Supreme Court who has this legacy of public service in this way. My brother's a lawyer. He got his start as a public defender in Durham, North Carolina. I just love the idea of having someone who has this history because it's important.

You know, I think that it's often easy to forget that public service should be a pipeline into bigger things. You know, like I want to see more teachers, public educators, public servants be elevated on a national way like this. So I love that aspect of her. Amen. Former social worker. Yes. You know. Amen. Amen. It's like we have this attitude where it's like if you choose to serve the public, you're some kind of a like, I don't know. I don't think we give people who serve the public the like prompts they deserve and they deserve a lot. And you know what? I have been feeling some emotions for our people in Texas who are social workers that we know what's happening there. Most people do, I think, especially our listeners. And my heart has been breaking because I already

know how divisive that type of conversation is. But going back to Judge Jackson and her public defense, like, yeah, I have worked with many of public defenders and a good public defender is invaluable in the way that they have to advocate and push for truth, injustice, true justice, meaning that we are hearing the side and that they are not guilty till proven otherwise. And how oftentimes, especially in, I'm assuming D.C. Atlanta is very similar. How often that that gets wrong? And that when we would find as a social worker who worked in the judicial system, when I found a good defender, I went and talked to them personally to try to get them onto cases for my kids,

specifically to make sure that they got what was fair. And that is so huge. So my heart is soaring to know that we have someone in that field coming to this point. Yeah, it's a pretty historic thing. And yeah, people who serve the public, like, thoughtfully and meaningfully, they really care about people. And so I applaud you for going the extra mile to create the conditions for your kids to get real justice and to have a real advocate because not everybody is like that. That's like a special thing. Yeah.

this is something that's been on my mind and I think a lot of our minds lately which is a separate podcast but I'll mention it here is like I feel in this country we have a real problem with glorifying like male ass-hullery as being successful like oh you manage the system

get your money like it doesn't matter kind of like what we're talking about here with the hypocritical nature of all these arguments being made and it's more to me it feels more about the show and like I'm a politician I'm on TV and like it's glorified whereas we have people who are working for the public, and in a lot of ways, these are kind of more gendered as feminine,

and therefore lesser in nature, like not worth the attention, not worth the accolades, not worth the money, even though it's so critical to a functioning society. But yeah. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I could talk all day. The way that we have harmed everyone,

A deep, deep societal harm is our legacy of not respecting jobs that we code as feminine, like traditionally feminine. So care work, you know, social work, education, all of these things that we have coded as feminine, the deprioritization and just like outright degradation and disrespect of those, I think that the ramifications we will never fully be able to contend with as a society, how much that has harmed us. the way that, you know, people who do care work are underpaid, if they're paid at all. Just the way that we don't even factor it in and it just falls on unpaid women, right?

Like, this is what I mean when I say, women are the backbone of our country and our society. And oftentimes that work is just completely not just unpaid, but unseen, unacknowledged. It's just like the cost of society functioning. And so I think that this country, sometimes the only thing that is standing between, our country and like complete collapse is the effort and labor of some exhausted women. I'll just put it that way. And let's be honest at this point in time is black women.

Like that I just think like when we talked about the elections before Biden, the Biden administration, the amount of work that has to be done. When we talked about cases like Aubrey Ahmed and all of those, how women have been forefront in protesting and bringing up all of these conversations and the continued work that they have to do. but not only that, like not only are they working to do good, but they're often having to combat all of the disinformation and harmful things that are being said about them

because they are doing the hard work. Exactly. I mean, that really leads us back to, you know, Judge Jackson. Just so, Judge Jackson, I think I got the email that she was going to be the pick at like 8.30 this morning. And so we're talking at 2 p.m. And so already just in a couple of hours, here are some of the unfair or just completely misleading attacks I've seen on her. One is that her decisions have been overturned,

when in reality, of her roughly 600 decisions that she has authored, she has been overruled just 2% of the time, right? And so if someone is telling you that in her career as a judge, her decisions have been routinely overruled or overturned, that's just not true. It's less than 2% of the time. The idea that she's an affirmative action hire that she only got the job because she's a black woman,

when in reality she is clearly absurdly qualified to the point where even talking about it seems ridiculous. This idea that she's too woke or too radical, one thing I would say is really be wary of people throwing things like that around without being able to point to a specific ruling or policy or argument that she makes, right? So just saying somebody, so-and-so is too radical and then not having it be attached to any kind of actual policy that you think demonstrates that, be wary of. of people who are saying that because, in my opinion, nine times out of ten when someone is saying

that what they actually mean is this person is a black woman. And then this idea of just sort of kind of connecting her to things for no real reason with no real explanation as to like why you are connecting her to these things. And so earlier today, Mitch McConnell tweeted, the Senate must conduct a rigorous, exhaustive review of Judge Jackson's nomination to the Supreme Court. This is especially crucial as American families face major crises. that connect directly to our legal system, such as skyrocketing violent crime and open borders. So what does Judge Jackson have to do with open borders exactly?

What does she have to do with violent crime exactly? You know, the fact that he's just throwing her in, you know, connecting her to these things, I think really, I think this is a moment where we will really be rewarded by really thinking critically about what people are saying and what they're saying in between the lines. And I think that really, to me,

demonstrates a tricky truth about the nature, of racialized and gender disinformation. I think most people can tell you that there is misleading or inaccurate information out there about like COVID or vaccines, but misinformation can be a lot trickier to spot and talk about when it relies on dog whistles, you know, the same way that someone might say like, oh, a woman is too emotional to lead,

and that's just code for being a woman. Oftentimes people are using dog whistles or coded language to attack women, women of color, and other marginalized folks, with this kind of like highly coded language that can be so tough to really call out and talk about for what it is. Yeah. And it's such a, again, it's one of those things.

It's such a double standard and it's so hypocritical. But I think back to Kavanaugh and he's like crying these angry tears. He's like confirmation. Wait, this is what you're not going to call him emotional. No, it's he's being awarded for being emotional as a man because that's difficult for them. He's probably because he's being the keys of sexual assault. Right.

Hey, no one really cares. Right. Yes. Isn't it funny how like we've branded anger as not an emotion? So like, oh, women are too emotional. It's like, well, men, if men get angry in public, is that not an emotion? And how come the too emotional, you know, banner is not used to identify that as an emotion? Yes.

Oh, I could talk about that forever. I guess so many thoughts about that. What is that cartoon with all the emotions? Oh, Inside Out. Inside Out. Well, Inside Out taught me different. Anger is emotion. I saw it.

I'm surprised you saw that. You avoid those sad children. I cried. Well, he cried a lot. Again, I was sad last night. My partner tried to make me watch Paddington again. I was like, how dare you? I cried.

Again. No, it was Paddington, too. I didn't trust them after the first one. That's fair. That's fair. something else that I has been on my mind and has been a source of frustration for a lot of us and that we've talked about on your segments

when you come on Bridgett is this kind of what you mentioned is like not only is Judge Jackson facing all of this like job interview that's very intensive but then there's all of these attacks online that are racist and sexist. And we've talked about it. It's not unique to this area

because we've talked about it in terms of video games. We've talked about it in terms of entertainment. But I feel like that's already a term of gatekeeping. That's already an extra thing you're asking people and the people that know them, like their families and friends, to deal with. And we just seem to accept that as the status quo of being a marginalized person that exists in our media landscape.

Absolutely. You know, I'm so glad that you put it that way because I think that we have this understanding that it's just the cost of doing business as a marginalized person and if you don't want this kind of thing to happen to you, then just don't speak and don't express opinions and don't strive and don't put yourself out there and don't become a public figure and don't serve your public

and don't, like, it's just a whole list of don't. And so I really want to urge people to have a shift around their understanding of that and say, like, we deserve to have a media landscape where everybody can speak up, everybody can participate, and that you're not going to be attacked unfairly, based on your identity, just for putting yourself out there. And so I want to quickly talk about some research

from the Institute for Strategic Dialogue. They analyzed social media abuse of candidates and found that women of color candidates are targeted on social media at alarming rates. They analyzed all these different messages that these candidates were getting, and they found that abusive messages accounted for more than 15% of those directed at every female lawmaker they analyze,

compared with around five, to 10% of the male candidates. Women of color were particularly likely to be targeted. Representative Ilhan Omar got the highest proportion, 39% of abusive messages of all the candidates. And AOC got the highest ratio of abusive comments on Facebook. And when you're talking about women, the abuse directed towards women is much more likely

to be about their gender than the abuse that's targeting men. Abuse targeting men was much more generalized and focused on their political stances, while messages directed at women were much more likely to focus on either a pure or general competence. And so, yeah, I mean, you, if you are a woman or a marginalized person who is putting yourself out there in this way, you deserve to be judged on your merits, your record, your words, your deeds, your values, not your identity, not racist, sexist tropes,

not, you know, nonsense about women or women of color, not being good leaders or being unqualified. You deserve to really have your record speak for itself. And I have to say, it's not just sort of, I talk a lot about, you know, online, bad actors, it's not just fringe extremists. We also see mainstream media outlets playing a huge role in legitimizing and mainstreaming racist, sexist attacks on women of color in public office. And so, you know, you might see things like an article about some complete racist nonsense or a complete racist attack being quoted in the headline of an article so that when people

share it on social media, it provides the impression that this is a legitimate grievance that somebody might have instead of just a racist attack. And so we are really calling on media to not create the conditions for these kind of racist, sexist, sexist attacks to fester and spread. Right. I think that this is a time that really requires everybody, whether you are a journalist or an editor or just a regular person on social media, to really be careful and thoughtful about how you are talking about this very visible black woman who is going up for this very visible position in the Supreme Court. Okay. I feel like you just led us into this. So tell us the listeners and us voters and constituents who are here to not only look and see and view and be the audience, but participate in help stopping this harmful disinformation. What do we need to do to make sure that we are not only engaging in that but not being a part of that but not spreading that? I'm so wedged you ask. So first is just, you know, if you see like a harmful, racist, sexist attack or a conspiracy theory, first and foremost, don't spread it. Nine times out of ten, if you see this kind of thing, if you retweet it or like comment on it,

you're actually just helping it grow and spread because of the algorithmic nature of most of our social media platforms. And so the platform is going to think like, oh, this person is engaging with this. It must be good content. I'm going to surface it for more people. So don't do that. Focus instead on sharing accurate, timely information about the issues and the candidates. So talk to people about Judge Jackson's actual record. Talk to people about her actual positions and where she actually stands.

That will kind of provide a little bit of taking the oxygen out of the kinds of racist, sexist, gendered attacks we are short to see. You can go to we are ultraviolet.org and check out our media kit really asking for the media to create the conditions for this person to be fairly judged and fairly talked about and fairly assessed by the American public. And also the last one I would say is like just really ask questions and be, I think this is a time where we will really be rewarded if we are interested in being critical thinkers, right? So when someone says like, oh, she's too radical, but can't give you a single thing that backs up what they're saying. Or when someone says like, oh, she's just going to be really woke, you know, really being able to ask, you know, what do you mean by that? What is what, when you say woke, like, what does that mean? What are you trying to say? I have found that to be really useful when I'm having conversations, particularly with people.

that may not be aligned with me politically, you know, really getting down to what is the substantive thing that you are trying to say? And if the answer is, well, I just don't like her because she's a black woman and I don't like black women, then say that so we can, so we can, you know, address that for what it is. Be loud about it because, you know, you're already pretty much saying it. Right. Like, say it with your chest if you're going to say it. Right. Like, just do it. You're already doing it. It feels hypocritical for me to ask this, so I apologize from the jump.

but as non-black women and for our male identifying listeners, what can we do to make sure, because we know, we already know black women are stressed the fuck out, but the fact of the matter is with this is going to come on to so many more attacks. It's visceral. We know what's going to happen. We know it and it's going to be harmful and it's going to be gross. And not only should we do all the things that you told us to do, but what can we do to ease load a but help fight for y'all in general?

I love this question. I would say, first of all, it's probably a tall order, but I would love to see a shift where we understand that this fight is all of our fight. Like, we are that, you know, the more marginalized you are, the more you are a target. But this kind of thing really harms us all. And so I think seeing this work as all of our work to create a healthy democracy is really key. And so these kinds of attacks, they don't just hurt the women that are subjected to them. They really have a meaningful impact on the health and well-being of our democracy.

Because we can't have a fully functioning representative democracy if everybody is not able to use their voice, if everybody is not able to participate. And so step one of that really comes with having a healthy, media ecosystem and a healthy climate for everybody to be able to participate. And so I would say really working to see these attacks on marginalized people as all of our fight because all of us are invested in having a healthy democracy, whether you are a man, a woman, black, white, like, it is all of our fight. And so really being able to see this as something that you're meaningfully invested in, not just because it's the right thing to do, which it is, but because we all deserve to

have a functioning democracy. Yes. I love it. Well set, as always, Bridget. Any other resources you want to shout out? Any final thoughts? Yeah, I have to just, again, shout out the work of Sistisodas. They have been really doing a lot of the work of building this infrastructure to hold Biden accountable for this campaign promise that he made. So their website is awesome. The women who run it are awesome. So definitely check them out. You can check out ultraviolet's work. We are doing a lot of the work of trying to enoculate. folks against disinformation and help people spot it when they see it and identify it. So you can check us out at we are ultraviolet.org. And of course, you can always check out my podcast. There are no girls on the internet. Check out our new season, which is dropping March 1st.

And yeah, we would love to have you there. Yes, yes. Award winning podcast. Yes. You haven't hit that subscribe button already. Why? Yes. Yes, I agree.

Why? What are you waiting for? What are you doing? What are you doing with your life? Yes, which as this episode releases, that should just be airing. So perfectly timely, very exciting. And we can't wait to talk to you again, Bridget. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much, as always, for being here.

You are the best we love you. Thank you so much for having me. It's been kind of fun talking about this very timely issue that it's like happening today as opposed to looking back on it. So thank you for giving me the space to do that. Yes, absolutely. anytime. And thank you listeners for listening. If you would like to contact us, you can, or email us, Stephanie at MomStuff.com. You can find us on Twitter at MomStub Podcast or on Instagram at Stuff. I've

Never Told You. Thanks, as always, to our super producer, Christina. We love you to Christina. Yes, you're the best. We love you. And thanks to you for listening. Stuff One Ever Told Your Projection of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio, visit the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts where we listen to your favorite shows. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smyl and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are

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Listen to the Radio 831 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know, there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. On the podcast, Reality with the King,

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Hi, everyone. I'm Cheryl Stray, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. So we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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