There Are No Girls on the Internet - Substack has a Nazi problem; Dating apps are flopping; Ebay execs harass critics; Elon does race science, AI George Carlin – NEWS ROUNDUP

Episode Date: January 13, 2024

Happy 2024 - the internet is all scams, lies, baits, Nazis and spiders!  Substack has a Nazi problem: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/01/11/substack-platformer-nazis/ Dating apps are in their flop era: https://www.bustle.com/wellness/dating-apps-have-gotten-worse-hinge-tinder-bumble-gen-z-millennials  On Threads, users say they're flooded with pro-life and transphobic posts: https://mashable.com/article/threads-transphobia-anti-abortion-posts-hate-speech EBay to pay $3 million after employees sent live spiders, funeral wreath and fetal pig to critics: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ebay-pay-3-million-employees-234151533.html The SEC’s Official X Account Was ‘Compromised’ and Used to Post Fake Bitcoin News: https://www.wired.com/story/sec-x-account-compromise/ What!? Did Elon Musk Just Endorse Tweet Saying Students at HBCUs Have Low IQs? https://www.theroot.com/wtf-elon-musk-seems-to-endorse-tweet-saying-students-a-1851159488?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=dlvrit&utm_content=theroot Video Game Voice Actors Criticize SAG-AFTRA Over Agreement With AI Company: https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2024/01/10/video-game-voice-actors-criticize-sag-aftra-over-agreement-with-ai-company/?sh=267ac9e0374e The George Carlin AI Standup Is Worse Than You Can Imagine: https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d94xx/the-george-carlin-ai-standup-is-worse-than-you-can-imagine  Bridget’s favorite Carlin bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLacSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Joey, thank you for being here. Happy New Year, first newscast of 2024. Hey, Bridget, happy New Year. So it being the New Year, I have to start with a question. Do you have any kind of online New Year's resolutions, or maybe not even resolutions, things that you are like, I am leaving this in 2023.

This is not, I'm not bringing this with me to 2024. Ooh. one thing I definitely at the end of the year when it comes to like internet stuff I'm on I you know I was on all the social medias and everything and I was like sort of trying to like

downsize a little bit I was like I wanted to get rid of it so like I don't know I had a Snapchat account that I made in like high school that I was like I don't use this anymore I'm deleting it I deleted be real I know that that's been making a comeback like the last month but I was like I don't use this I'm so yeah

I think I'm one of my things I was like, I'm going to be online, but it's going to be with like intention. Like I'm not just going to have my like miscellaneous accounts that I don't use. We'll see how long that actually lasts. I will probably end up making some new account to something and forgetting about it. But yeah, that's the goal. What a good thing, a good way to start the new year. Like, you know how we have like spring cleaning or I'm in a, there's like a tradition where

you start the year with like cleaning out your physical space. I like applying this to the digital, just starting the year fresh, those accounts that have just been lurking on your phone that you're not really using actively or with intention, getting rid of them, and really kind of pairing down and being intentional about our digital use. I love this. Exactly. Yeah. I'm also like, I'm one of those people that my phone is just like constantly telling me that my cloud is full and I don't have any space for anything. So I'm trying to make sure I'm not just taking up space on my phone at all that. But yeah, definitely. Oh my God, I'm so bad about that. I actually pay for extra I cloud storage. I'm one of those people. So I'm like, I would rather just pay a dollar a month or whatever to not have to think about this problem and not have to get those. Because there's anything more annoying than getting those warnings. Like, oh, I've, I cloud storage is low. I never getting too because like, and then I can keep seeking pictures. Like, it never actually cuts me off and take pictures. It just keeps. Don't fully under. This is embarrassing. I don't fully understand how it works. I'm like, oh, well, I was like, it's never stopped. from doing anything, but they do send those alerts all the time. One of my, in the new year, one of my digital behaviors that I'm going to try to leave in 23 is kind of getting worked up about small things on social media. I will say making a podcast about the internet, like you really got to be tapped in.

And it can't you, I do find myself getting annoyed at behavior that is like, ultimately, if I take a step back, I'm like, is this really doing. I really need to be getting annoyed by this. The last thing I had a big B in my bonnet about was how annoying the ads on Twitter I've gotten. Have you seen this? Like, Oh my God.

They're out of control. There's this one that I was getting where it's like an ad for a bra. And I don't even wear bras. And so it's like this ad where it's like a woman cutting a bra with scissors. And it just was like an auto play video of a bra being cut with scissors. And I was seeing it every freaking day. and if I saw it one more time, I thought I was going to scream. And then oftentimes the accounts that are posting it are, like, they have a board ape or like an NFT, avie.

And so I was like, I don't want this board ape telling me what kind of brought about it. I just didn't like it. Oh, my God. Yeah. That does, I don't, yeah, I feel like that's a pretty good generalization is I'm not going to take my broad vice from somebody with the board ape profile picture. Yeah. I feel like I wouldn't take any kind of life advice from somebody. Oh, yeah.

If you got a bored ape avie on Twitter, there's nothing you can tell me that I need to know. I feel. Literally, there was some tweet. I don't even remember what the tweet was, but I, like, thought it was funny and I liked it. And then I realized that the person had like a blue check mark. I immediately unliked it because I was like, no, I feel this feels wrong. It feels like you shouldn't be funny. Like, I feel like you stole this from somebody.

You shouldn't have a blue check mark and be funny. Like, something's wrong there. Yeah, you don't get my laugh if you're also giving Elon Musk $8. I love it. Okay, well, I want to start our first newscast of the year talking about this really interesting new piece from Kate Lindsay in Bustle that I've seen a lot of people sharing online called dating apps are in their flop era. The piece posits that if you met your partner or had a good experience on a dating app like Hinge or Tinder, as the piece said, you basically caught the last chopper out of numb because apparently the dating apps are a hot. mess now. Is this, do you have any experience with dating apps? That's fascinating. This is the first that I have heard of this story. But yeah, I, I'm single. I use dating apps. I am like, staunchly at the beginning of Gen Z, I guess. But that is really interesting. I definitely have some weird dating app stories. But, you know, I think especially as like the ways people date

It's kind of been changing, but yeah, no, this is the first I'm hearing of this. That's interesting. Okay, so she writes, talk to your friends, scroll social media, or even just sit in a bar and listen, and you'll encounter a similar sentiment. Millennials are tired of dating apps, and Gen Z singles might not bother with them. A 2023 survey of college and grad students found that 79% do not use dating apps even once a month, the piece finds. So it sounds like the companies that run these dating apps are also feeling this shift.

Match group, which owns a bunch of them, Tinder, Hinge, Match.com, and OKCupid, saw its stock price drop 40% in the past year. Bumble, whose CEO Whitney Wolf Hurd, stepped down in November after 10 years at the app. And also, Field is struggling through a disastrous rebrand. I actually, the only dating app I have ever used with any kind of regularity is Field. It's an app that's like for queer people and like non-monogamous people and like, I guess, like kinky people. field just had a really I guess the only way I can describe it as like disastrous rebrand that sounds like a good bit to get into you on the Patreon

because like there I have a lot to say about it but all of these apps field hinge bumble Tinder are really feeling this change match groups said that they saw their paying users decline for the fourth straight quarter and a 2023 peer research study found that while 41% of online dating users age 30 or older have paid paid for the apps. Just 22% of users under 30, which is the demographic they are really looking

to court, have done the same. And yeah, I just think it sounds like younger folks are just like, I'm good on these apps. What do you think? I definitely, actually, that I agree with. I don't know anybody that, I'm in my mid-20s. I don't know anybody that pays for a dating app. Yeah, I definitely, it's interesting, too, like hearing those stats, because I do think, like, of me and my peers of people that I know that use dating apps. I don't know a lot of people that use them, like, thinking, yes, this is how I'm going to find, like, a long-term relationship. Like, to be fully honest, most people, you know, I don't know. Like, I use Hinge a lot, but that's, like, there's like a thing where you can put, like, what you're looking for. I don't think

I've seen a single person put, like, long-term relationship or whatever. It's all like, just see what happens or to relate, which is that, I don't know, I feel like that. Maybe it's also just like a, that's how we're seeing dating now. That's interesting about fields. too because I was going to say the thing that I keep seeing on dating apps is like and also like I mean whatever like I'm queer I'm only I only date other queer people um there's so many people that are like non monogamous I had to ask my little brother what E&M meant over winter break how did that conversation go um it was really funny because he was like he's like 19 he was just like it's ethical non-monogamy and I was like oh okay what

Like they already put non monogamous. Why don't we need to put that? I also think this is really funny because I'm like, does that mean like can somebody call themselves like unethically not unabrous? Like, is anybody ever done that? I know, exactly. Like I was like, did they really need to clarify ethical? Um, and then of course my dad overheard this conversation and we had to explain the concept of open relationships to him, which was just funny. But yeah, um, anyways, that's not to hand to the same. So it's definitely there's, you know, some generational thing. I don't know. I'm all for people doing the non monogamy thing. you know, there's different ways of dating, different ways.

But yeah, that's definitely, I think, the majority of what I've been seeing on there. Which I don't, again, I don't think that's a really bad thing. But I can see, like, from a, you know, the corporation's perspective, not having people paying for the app or whatever is probably not great for them. Yeah. First of all, I have to say, I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in the pet household during this conversation. Yeah, so it does sound like exactly what you're saying is happening that younger people just aren't feeling the idea of paying for this experience. And basically, you know, I guess I consider myself a millennial, like a generation older than you.

And for my generation, dating apps and hookup apps were kind of considered the norm of the millennial experience, right? Like they were part of what it meant to be a young millennial when I was coming up. And I think I kind of came up in the heyday of those apps. I didn't really use them myself, but a lot of my friends did. Like, that was the thing. And I think that for the younger generation, it's just fatigue. I think people are experiencing fatigue around these apps and just not using them the way that they used to. I also think the experience of like just swiping after swiping after swiping and then having to like go on the date and be like, oh, do you have any siblings?

Oh, what do you do? I think there might be a lot of feelings of exhaustion associated with the experience and what it feels like to be on these apps. And part of it does just sound like the experience of showing up there kind of sucks now. The most popular apps are free, but they really encourage you to pay to interact with people. And basically, it sounds like they are paywalling all the good profiles. On Hinge, you might know this because you use it. you can only interact with profiles of people who are getting lots of attention or who the algorithm thinks that you might be a good match for, things that you might like, if you send them a rose.

Users get one free rows per week to send. And in order to regularly engage with those standout profiles, you would need to buy more roses, starting at $3.99 each or limit your options to Hinge's general algorithm where it sounds like they keep all the duds, all the people that they know you're not going to like, they'll show you those people for free, but if you want to see any of the, like, good ones, you got to pay. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's interesting to it. Because again, like I said, like I, I'm on the queer side of Hinge, but like, I'll talk to my little sister about this. And, like, she, she's straight. And, like, she's only, like, it's a totally different experience. Like, Hinge is completely different

for her. I guess the one other thing, I think, for the, I don't know if this is part of the generational thing. Because I definitely do think, like, people still use it. But I think with the, especially people looking at it more casually, like, it's like playing a game. Like it's like you're playing swipes. You're like, which, um, yeah, I don't know. I feel like sometimes like a lot more people that I'll talk to you that are younger will look at it almost like a video game that you're playing where it's just like, or like you're getting like points, your likes or to, I don't know, I was talking to,

okay, now I'm terrified that somebody I match with his on hand just going to listen to this. If you are, this, I'm obviously not talking about you. They're not talking about you. but um uh like it's like it's almost like a like it's like the serotonin boost is like the appeal of it like i'm like i'm not even really looking for like any more than i am in like any other space for like dating it's more just like the like oh like you're getting points that show you you're attractive or whatever because people are liking your profile um but yeah i and i could definitely and again straight women i'm so sorry for y'all like i'm sure you have it but just

from talking to my sister. and like my handful of straight friends. It sounds rough. It sounds rough. It does. I have heard, I mean, I should say, like, I have been off the market for a very long time, so I don't really know what it's like out there. But I have heard horror stories about the kinds of things that men will say and do to

women on first dates. It, yeah, I also feel for people who are single dating, it doesn't sound like it's always very fun. And it doesn't sound like the addition of these apps, which at one time, I do think came with the promise of like, oh, you'll get to swipe through lots of people and you'll get to go on lots of dates and it will feel really good and you'll get to like have your pick. I don't know that it feels that way anymore. So yeah, I just, I feel for everybody. Yeah, definitely. And also, I will say that the rose thing, I just think the vibes might feel weird. Like, if I knew that somebody paid $4 just to talk to me, that our initial conversation,

I just, it doesn't feel like the kind of vibe that I would want to start a potential relationship with. And so I just feel like that system might already be setting folks up for an experience that just maybe feels a little bit weird. Yeah. I, because it's, I think on Hinge, you get like a free rose every day. but like I don't think I've ever used them. And like I've seen, I don't know, like, that's, people who sent me roses. But it's always like, I never know what the like, I don't know. I mean, the thing about dating apps is you're not meeting in person. So it's hard to pick up like the social cues or whatever.

But I'm always like, I don't even really know what that means. Like did you just like really like my profile or were like, were you like, I guess I'm going to use my one rose today, whatever. Like, yeah. And it is a little weird. Like it is, I, yeah, I never thought about it that way too. up like, oh, if you, you're paying like $4 to see me. I don't know. That's a lot of, that feels like a lot of pressure. Yeah. Pressure. The very vibe that starts out every good

relationship, every good romantic pairing. And so in the wake of people sort of not feeling the vibes on these apps, the companies themselves are trying to pivot. Like Tinder used to be considered the hookup app, like the app that was just for like if you want, like for people who wanted a booty call. right? But since Gen Z statistically is doing the casual hookup thing a lot less, Tinder is sort of pivoting to service folks who say they are looking for love and letting people pick and describe the kind of relationships or interactions that they're looking for on the app. So they're trying to pivot away from being solely like a hookup app. I found this really funny. Tinder has also become more kind of politically and socially aware

trying to appeal to that Gen Z market that they're really going for. They know that Gen Z really cares about social and political causes, and Melissa Hobbley, the chief marketing officer at Tinder, says the LGBTQIA Plus community is the fastest growing demo on the app. And during Pride Month, Tinder helped connect eligible users with information about a study that hopes to combat the FDA's blood ban against gay donors. Tinder also launched an election center for app users to access voter registration tools and locate their polling stations and allowed users to include a pro-choice interest on their point. profile. So all of that is meant to really appeal to, like, younger folks who they're trying to get to use these apps with more regularity. Yeah, that makes sense. I remember when I, because also I, when, I don't know, I got back on dating apps like a couple months ago, probably. And I remember seeing that on Tinder. I do have a Tinder somewhere. I don't think I've used it since I downloaded

it. But I remember seeing there were, like, things you could, like, that you were interesting. and pro-choice was one of them and I was like, that's sort of a weird like interest to put. But I guess like, okay. Like, I don't know. I know Hinge also does the like you can put your, although it only gives you like liberal and like conservative, which I think is interesting. Nothing else. Yeah.

It's like radical, progressive, liberal and conservative. That's it. And I honestly think what is happening with these dating apps is like what always seems to happen with social platforms online, right? Like, part of it is that I think that Hinge was this big standout mainstream dating app for a while that made a big song and dance about how they genuinely were interested in and invested in people meeting their matches. Like their slogan was, oh, this is an app that is meant to be deleted because we want

you to find your person and then delete the app. However, like most platforms, dating platforms, they want your data. They are interested in making money from your data. And once they have gotten all they can from the data of the, like, maximum amount of users who are going to sign up, then they are pivoting to wanting your money to you. So they're not designed to be deleted. They are designed to make money off of people who use them, right? Just like, that's why these apps exist. And so if that means paywalling anybody that you might potentially be interested in, they are going to do that. I read recently that Tinder has launched this like super

lux premium package for $500 a month where they were like, oh, we'll have like super special algorithmic matching and even like humans will help match people. Listen, if I'm paying $500 a month for a dating site, the person I meet there better also be like a valet and a personal chef and all the things. But I just think that they're just trying to like throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks to set themselves apart because people, like I don't think they're offering people an experience. It always feels good. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think the other, I mean, the other thing too, I don't know if anybody who lives in New York remembers the big advertisements that were all over the Union Square subway station for, I'm blanking out what it was called, but it was some dating app that was supposed to be like people that were like elite and like had nice jobs. The league?

The league? That's what it was. Yeah. Oh my God. Like I was, I remember seeing that. I was like, what? Like, I was like, what? Like, I don't know that because that kind of, I feel like reminds me of this or it's like it's a.

There's so many, like, hyper-specific ones that I'm always like, is there really, like, enough people for this to work who, like, wanted to, I don't know. I had a friend that signed up for the league, though, and it sounded like a very interesting experience. Yeah, no, that's, that's weird. I, yeah, at that point, like, $500, like, just go back to finding a matchmaker or something, like the old, I don't know, go old school. Exactly.

I mean, I, again, I'm, I didn't really get to expect. the heyday of the apps, but everybody that I've ever had a meaningful relationship with has been through, I've met through the original OG Hinge, which is just like having pushy friends who like to set people up, who won't take no for an answer. Yeah. Oh, my God. And I guess like, I don't know. I don't think anybody should be spending $500 a month on a dating, a dating app. Absolutely not. That money can be better spent for sure. But I just really feel for people trying to meet people romantically these days. Like, it feels like what these apps are offering you. Like, there was a time where it felt like they were offering an endless supply of

potential matches. It was going to be really fun. But it seems like now it's like, hey, do you want this dud or do you want to give us $10 a month or whatever, right? And like, I don't know, dating should be fun and it should be pleasurable. And I hope that people who are looking to be romantically involved or partnered or having any kind of whatever interaction they're seeking, I hope that they are finding ways to do that that feel fulfilling and fun and gratifying, whether they're online or off because, yeah, it shouldn't just be a slog that mirrors the annoyances and exhaustion of showing up on social media platforms. Like, that's not what romantic partnership is about and, like, you deserve better than

something that feels like a fucking slog. It's supposed to be fun. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel,

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on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. At our back. Speaking of unfulfilling online experiences full of things that are bad, that was a clunky transition, but you know where I'm going with this. Let's talk about Substack.

The newsletter platform substack has a bit of a Nazi problem. This week, Substack agreed to remove five newsletters featuring Nazi content that incited violence. This comes after almost 200 writers, including Casey Newton, who runs platformer, which I love, a prominent tech publication on Substack, signed on to an open letter threatening to quit the platform if Substack took no action. So this has been an ongoing problem. the Atlantic reported that prominent white supremacists were using the platform substack not just to spread their message, but also to earn money.

The Atlantic reported that Richard Spencer, who you might remember getting punched in the face the last time he was here in my hometown of Washington, D.C., which, by the way, anybody, like, asked somebody who was in kind of, or at least at that time, sort of like, more sort of like lefty, radical protest circles, everybody that I knew, knew somebody who was claiming to be the guy who punched Richard Spencer because he was wearing a black blacker like wearing all black so like nobody knows who that person was. It was actually me.

It was actually me. We are all the person that punched Richard Spencer. We are all the puncher. But Richard Spencer now is making, like, after being deplatformed from most other social media platforms, he is making at least $9,000 a year and potentially many times that from his social. Substack newsletter, and he is not alone. Because Substack, the company, takes 10% of a cut of any

money earned on the platform from subscription fees, Substance is essentially profiting from white supremacists who are also breaking their terms of service that explicitly bans attempts to publish content or fun initiatives that incite violence based on protected classes. So in the letter that these prominent writers on Substack published, they said, from our perspective as Substack publishers, it is unfathomable that someone with a swastika avatar who writes about, quote, the Jewish question, who promotes the great replacement theory, could be given the tools to succeed on your platform. And yet, you've been unable to adequately explain your position, the letter reads. Substac has always kind of had this public positioning where they were going to treat content with a

content moderation with a really light touch. However, as the letter accurately points out, that is not true. they do choose to moderate some content, including spam sites and newsletters written by sex workers. And so they can't really be like, oh, well, we just allow everybody to express themselves. Like, we don't want to pick and choose. Like anybody can show up here. Why do they not allow content written by sex workers on their platform? Hemish McKenzie, a substack co-founder, defended the company's position back in December,

saying, I just want to make it clear that we don't like Nazis either. We wish no one held those views. but some people do hold those and other extreme views, he wrote. So basically being like, oh, well, we're just publishing the views people have. But again, you might not agree that with the profession of sex work, but sex workers exist in society. So if that is your argument that we're just, you know, platforming the views that people have and we're not making any kind of like statement about those views. Why is that clearly you are picking and choosing the views that you choose the platform? Yeah, no.

I'm like honestly. and this is coming from my, again, 20-something, like, just sort of whatever experience I have. I think, like, this whole issue is something I've kind of gone back and forth about a lot, because, yeah, it is like one of those things where I'm like, yeah, free speech. But, like, also, obviously, like, I don't want neo-Nazis. I don't want, like, explicit, you know, super right-wing, racist, whatever, xenopobic people. But, yeah, but I feel like, that aside. that aside, whatever your beliefs are, if you are as a company censoring people that, yeah,

our sex workers are doing stuff that, you know, maybe not even like leftists and like political sense, but sort of on the opposite side of like whose voices are being heard, that you're censoring them, but you're not censoring. Like that's not an issue of we're censoring versus we're not censoring. That's just an issue of favoring the neo-Nazis over, you know, anybody just trying to talk about their life experience. Well, exactly that. Like, that's what these writers have said that it is not just that these, like, neo-Nazi, white supremacist folks are being allowed to write on the platform. At times, the platform has actually promoted that content. According to the Atlantic, Patrick Casey, a leader of a now defunct neo-Nazi group, who has a substack newsletter, uses a substag recommendation

feature to promote seven other extremist newsletters. And so they'd also describe how, you know, substack, if you make a certain amount of money, they give you a badge and, like, things like that. They are using those things to, I would argue, promote as a company these beliefs and make money off of these beliefs that they then say, like, oh, well, we don't support it. If you don't support it, why are you taking a 10% cut? Like, that's, but a very literal definition of supporting it. Yeah, absolutely. And that's not, you know, it's not like, oh, we just have this platform and people are writing on it and we have no say on what they're writing. Like, at that point, you're complicit.

You're literally, you're essentially what, like on the board of the, like, neo-Nazi publication, you know. Exactly. So after this outcry from these writers who submitted this letter, Substack this week did announce that they were removing five existing publications that they said were breaking the platform's rules with what they were posting. They said, if and when we become aware of other content that violates our guidelines, we will take appropriate action. They added, we are actively working on. more reporting tools that can be used to flag content that potentially violates our guidelines and who will continue working on tools for user moderation so sub-Tac users can set and refine the terms of their own experience on the platform. And yeah, I just got to say like there is an old

adage in content moderation of online spaces, which is if you don't explicitly and explicitly and specifically and loudly say that you are not a place for Nazis to gather online, that is how you get Nazis. And if you don't want Nazis, you have to say, no, Nazis. And I think this really proves it. Casey Newton, a platformer, one of the big tech outlets that was behind this letter, said, the Nazis did not commit the only atrocity in history, but a platform that declines to remove their supporters is telling you something important about itself. And I completely agree. And honestly, like, I am usually somebody who will take any excuse to frame something as a win, like even if it's a small win. Something about this doesn't smell right to me,

right, like removing five newsletters and then being like, oh, well, you know what? Years later and after outcry and being pushed by these writers who spoke up, we're finally going to do the bare minimum of enforcing our existing terms of service and removing five newsletters. They don't even say which newsletters were removed. And so it just feels so low effort to me that it's almost hard for me to call it a win. Like, I'm glad that these writers spoke up and I'm grateful for their organizing work to to push them in the right direction.

But that said, substack, like, get it together. This is such a low, it feels so low effort that it feels barely worth applauding. Yeah. Also, I don't know, the whole idea of users setting and their own terms for what their, like, users have the option to change what they want to see. It's like, okay, but then you're not really solving the problem because you're putting it on the individual to like, put what? I don't want to see Nazis, which I feel like that should be given.

And yeah, and also, I mean, going back to my statement before, like, when I say, like, whatever, pre-seege, obviously, like, Nazis are bad. That's a pretty, like, easy statement. It is really weird. A bold dance. I know. It's crazy. My Jewish self is coming out against the Nazis, I guess. Like, I don't know.

It's been so weird the last couple of years saying that has just become, like, it's like, like, that should be the bare minimum statement. And you can't be like, Nazis are bad. It's like, whoa, that's, I don't know. Anyways, yeah, like that, that, it just, it just, it seems like it's not really going to fix the problem if you're putting it on the users because, you know, when things that the OG Nazis were really good at was propaganda and, you know, sort of sanitizing their beliefs or packaging their beliefs in a way that like the average person would agree with it. And, you know, this is just giving them another avenue to do that. Yes, and I don't think that, you know, your average person who just wants to read stuff on substack or write on substack about their life or whatever should be tasked with that. Like that's a, like that is a, that is an organizational and a structural problem. And I don't think, as you said, I don't think it should be left up to people to have to filter out that level of extremist content, right? Obviously, if there's like stuff that you don't want to see, it's good for platforms to allow you customization. But this is so far beyond a. typical customization problem. Like, clearly it is a organizational, structural problem that the powers that be at Substack have to sort out. And like, if you are not being paid by

substack, it should not be your responsibility to figure out how to keep Nazi content off of the platform. Like, that is a, that is, that is, that burden should not be on us as the user. Like, that should not be on the user end. And speaking of hate speech on these platforms, so one of my New Year's resolutions was to stop using Twitter so much. much. TBD on how it is going. So far not well. But that will probably mean spending more time on alternatives like threads. When we first checked in on threads when it launched, it felt like very brand safe to me and just like didn't feel like a cool platform. I haven't spent a lot of time there yet. So like maybe that has changed. But one thing that has changed on threads is that people

are reporting the platform is flooded with more transphobic, pro-life, anti-porn, and Islamophobic posts. So hearing this, I logged in for the first time in ages, and it didn't take long for me to see this post from a user that I did not follow. And certainly, like, don't follow any accounts that would have, like, recommended this to me. It was a tweet that just said, it's okay to be white. It's okay to be white. Like, how in-paced it a bunch? Did you see that? Oh, my God. Yeah. I did. So just a really weird post, right? Yeah, no. This is, I've been having the same experience of like, I, the only time, because I also, like, I think. feel like I got the same sort of thing with threads where like I made it when I made a threads account when it came out. It's connected to my Instagram and everything. But I am not. The only times I've opened it is when I get in the Instagram feed, I'll get like baited into clicking on like hate clicking on stuff because yeah, I'll get like all the, there's that thing now where it shows you like recommended threads. And they're always like the most like inflammatory.

Like there's been a lot of Islamophobic stuff or like very racist stuff that I've seen them and like that can't be real. And then I'll click on it to like see the whole thing. and whatever. It's very like rage baity kind of stuff. But yeah, no, that's the only times I've opened brides have been to see those, see those tweets in full and be like, is this really something? Somebody else. Joey, oh my God.

I will, this would be the rest of the episode. But when I told, when I said up top that one of my plans for the new year was to spend less time getting bent out of shape about content like this, it is, it was inspired in part by that. I know exactly what you're talking about on Instagram where you're like, who is saying what now? Then you click in. And if you're me, then you spend your whole day being like, well, this can't possibly. Like I need to research this.

Like, what's going on here? Before you know what, you're knee deep in some weird ass profile being like, like, what is this ridiculous that I'm looking at? On winter break, when we were off, I spent an entire half of day. I lost a whole half a day to that process. And I was like, they got me. It's total engagement rage bait. They want you to click. Maybe they want you to click my accident.

And yeah, it just, it doesn't feel good. It's like a crappy, it feels crappy to have that experience online. And it feels like more and more, like that's what platforms have to offer you is engagement farming and rage baiting. And then like exploiting your accidental click into something with shocking inflammatory content. It is infuriating. But I will say that Facebook, meta, they are aware of this problem. So in a statement to Mashable, Facebook acknowledged that some users are being shown this type of repetitive, low-quality content, saying, we want people to have a positive experience on threads, and we're continually making improvements to what people see on the app.

In addition to removing content, that violates our community guidelines, we're aware that some people are seeing this repetitive, low-quality content. They may not be interested in. We're taking steps to address it. So I've read a few responses on this from Adam Mosaheri, comma, who some listeners might remember is one of my personal enemies. But all of his comments about it are like so general. They're kind of like, oh, we're doing our best to get it off the platform, yada, yada, yada. But it is clear that you need to have very clear rules, very clear enforcement of those rules and a way to find it when those pieces of content are breaking the rules when users are doing it in a repetitive way. Like, it is not easy to run a text-based social media platform.

I'll be the first person to admit it. It is a pay grade far above me. However, it just, yeah, they've got to get it together because nobody wants to have social platforms where it just feels scammy or baity. And I just think that most people have had their fill of experiences that feel that way online right now. Yeah, no, absolutely. Because, like, especially looking at, like, yeah, the threads that would pop up on my fee

that would get recommended to me. There were always things that I was like, if you're taking my data and you're like understanding the type of person that I am and things I'm interested in and what my political beliefs are, like this is very clearly the opposite of that, like, is the point of these just to get me to like click on it

because I'm, yeah, like rage bait or like confused bait into clicking on something I look, which you know, as a marketing strategy to get people to use your app works. that being said it's not very ethical. Yeah, I definitely, like, every time, like, that happens, I'll take a second and, like, scroll start scrolling through threads and be like, and it's not first, I don't know, it is, like,

the same realm. I'm, like, I still feel like it's, like, the social media platform itself hasn't really, like, there's no real reason for me to go on it otherwise. So it's weird, it's a weird situation. Yeah, I've come to see myself as someone who has gotten more susceptible to, the kind of rage, confusion, engagement bait that you just described,

I know, like, I know it when I see it. And I almost feel like the more learned I am about that kind of content, somehow the more it gets me. On Twitter,

like if you are a black person, a young black person who is on Twitter, you probably are familiar with a certain kind of post that you know, it's just like, I can't describe it, but you know it when you see it,

where it'll be like, There was a video recently of three black women knocking on a door, like knocking on a door of an apartment. And the caption on Twitter was like, this girl was out until 5 a.m. and her man changed the locks on her. What do you all think about this? And everybody is like, oh, like, why is it bad to go out at 5 a.m.? And then people are being like, yeah, like she deserves it. And something about those kinds of posts where it's always something like very inflammatory. It might not even be true. It might be like a skit that people are doing. That's a whole other episode about how people are making skits, putting them online as if they have been filmed, and then raking in that sweet, sweet engagement when people react to it.

I mean, we should do a whole episode on it because it's a common thing. But for whatever reason, I am susceptible to that. Like, I am not above that. I find myself, like, scrolling the comments. And I'm like, why am I getting angry about this probably fake scenario? that has something to do with me. Like, there's enough stuff in the world for me to be reacting to in my own life. Like, why am I exposing myself and getting myself bent out of shape about things that are being presented to me specifically to react to?

I don't know. It's just, I'm going off on a tangent here, but it's a problem and it doesn't feel good. And I agree with you. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk, to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group. The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation.

The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open to change. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. since you guys are middle-aged. One erection.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as a podcaster. large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.

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on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. Let's get right back into it. So speaking of scams and bait on social media and on Twitter, no, the SEC did not register Bitcoin on securities exchanges. Thank you to listener Trisha Friedman for flagging this for us to talk about. And if folks have stories, they want us to talk about. You can always find them to us. So the official Twitter account of the United States Securities and Exchange Commission, SECGov, was compromised this week and sent out

an unauthorized tweet. This is a pretty big deal. Twitter officially says that they investigated and determined that it was not a breach of their systems, but that somebody got a hold of somebody from the SEC's phone, which did not have two-factor authentication enabled, and that's how they posted the fake tweet. The tweet said it does look like a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission tweet. The tweet says, Today the SEC grants approval for Bitcoin ETFs for listing on all registered national securities exchanges. The approved Bitcoin ETFs will be subject to ongoing surveillance and compliance measures to ensure continued investor protection. So this would be a big deal, had it been true,

which it's not, but that fake tweet did cause a brief spike in Bitcoin's value of around 2.5% to nearly $47,870 before Congress. crashing around 3.2% from its original price. So Twitter, you know, they denied any responsibility for this incident, so they say, I don't know. But what is clear is that since Musk took over at Twitter, Twitter has gotten a lot less secure. This piece in Wired puts it really well. They say Elon Musk's aggressive slashing of the company's staff over the past year raised fears that the cuts would leave Twitter unable to secure a platform depended on by users that include high profile figures and government agencies worldwide.

One former Twitter information official sued Musk and others for alleged wrongful termination after he was fired for he claims in the lawsuit, arguing that the staff cuts would interfere with Twitter's ability to comply with a 2011 consent degree with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission to protect users' personal information. And yeah, I got to say, like, one of the reasons I want to use Twitter less is that I don't trust that somebody like Elon Musk would keep my personal information secure and safe. and it makes sense considering how he is, how he acts, how he shows up. Wired spoke to Allison Nixon, the chief research officer for cybersecurity firm Unit 221B,

which frequently deals with hackers' accounts takeovers. She puts it really well. She says, people put a lot of trust into an entity that has stopped being a serious company. If a government wants to be able to make statements that people can rely on, they can't do that on a platform that has a targeted account takeover problem. And yeah, like even if Musk is denying any kind of responsibility for this, which he is, he certainly is not signaling that he is taking it very seriously. Right after the news of the SEC's Twitter account being compromised broke,

Musk was joking around about it on Twitter, responding to a post jokingly being like, oh, what's the SEC's password, wrong answers only? Musk responds, LFG, Doge to the Moon, which is like, let's fucking go a joke about Doge coin. The jokes, I mean, like, side note, the jokes aren't even ever funny with him. It's always some, like, stupid little meme that was, like, cool five years ago. He gets on everything very late. That's another thing about Elon Musk, I can't stand. It's the whole Doge coin. Like, Doge is such an old me. It's so old. Oh, my God. I'm sure it makes, like, teenagers that have, like, no idea without even fucking me.

Like, it's so old. That is so ridiculous. Oh, my God. Update your references. And Trisha, the listener who flagged this story for us, really made a good point, which is that for all the hand-wringing that elected officials do about TikTok, it's such a good reminder that TikTok is not the only platform out there that folks seem to be thinking about when it comes to our digital security. You know, there was a time where elected officials, campaigns, governments, et cetera, when they needed to communicate quickly with us, the public, it was Twitter that they used, right? And so I don't know if that's going to be the case going forward with Musk at the helm. But yeah, so it really does matter that it is a secure platform. And speaking of Elon Musk, Joey, is there anything that you want to ask me about Elon Musk? Ooh, let's see, we're what, like on the second week to 2024. But still, so excited to hear.

What has Elon done now? Well, Elon Musk is on Twitter dipping into straight race science. Oh, no. No, it's bad. It's one of those things that I almost didn't want to talk about because I'm like, oh, I can't stand this guy. But it does connect to a lot of the conversation that's going on right now. You know, we've done a few episodes on Bill Ackman and Christopher Rufo and their attempts to really create a moral panic around DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives and have had success in getting Dr. Claudine Gay ousted from her position at Harvard. Well, as you all know, if it is despicable people doing despicable stuff, you already know Elon Musk is going to be involved in it in the mix somehow. So yesterday, he was engaging with a tweet suggesting that historically black college graduates have, quote, borderline intellectual impairment. So this pretty big account on Twitter, eyelash ho, which is a account that like really spreads a lot of junk race science,

this account was talking about this program from United Airlines that gives HVCU, historically college students, opportunities to interview with the company's career development program to be pilots. I Lash Ho says, the mean IQ of grads from two of those United Airlines HBCU partners is about 85 to 90 based on the average SATs at those schools. Side note, that's just not true. That's made up. He says, the SAT correlates reasonably well with IQ. The HBCU IQ averages are within 10 points of the threshold for what's considered borderline intellectual impairment. I'll add that IQ is a well studied and well-known predictor of job performance, especially for quick processing and mentally demanding occupations like major airline pilot. So none of that is correct. Yeah, that is not true.

Yeah, first of all, IQ is a totally like arbitrary system and measuring intelligence. Like, we've known this for a while. People still latch on to it. It's like, this is how you know, brain smart. But, you know, I, yeah, no, I. So even. So even. for as wrong and incorrect and silly and junkie and bad science and all the other things as that tweet is, Elon Musk basically co-signed that tweet. He replied saying, it will take an airplane crashing and killing hundreds of people for them to change this crazy policy of D-I-E. Did you catch what he did there? The policy is D-E-I-I. But he mixed, he mixed the letters around so it spells D-I-E. Die. I don't know. Also, I'm sorry, Elon, like,

don't throw stones in glass houses or whatever. Like, that is, you should not be the one talking about people crashing and dying with their... Oh, I mean, yes. Thank you. Yeah. We're talking about crashing and dying, homie. Let's look at your own cars. That is such a good point.

Also, it's wild to me that they would be like, we broke it. Like, here's the pithy slogan. If you mix the letters around, it smells die. Like, get it on a billboard. It's the most... It's like in Harry Potter when they, when like, Voldemort's name, like, they turn it around and it's whatever. Like, it actually says die.

Oh, my God. And I just like, this whole idea is just so silly, right? Like, this idea that because you have DEI initiatives, side note, like, I feel like I have in a position of defending DEI the last few weeks because of what's going on. But like, DEI initiatives are basically toothless. They're basically like meaningless. They're basically like, they don't really, they have not really accomplished a lot. I was listening to the podcast if books could kill.

They don't do much. I was listening to the podcast if books could kill. And one of the points that they made, which is a really good one, which is that if you were a racist in 2024 and you really wanted your spaces to be all mostly white men and have like white, straight cis men and power, you should like DEI initiatives because they have been so ineffective at actually making things more diverse and inclusive that you should be like, wow, this is going great. Like, I'm going to keep endorsing this. Yeah, right. But however, this idea that like DEI initiatives mean that you have armies of black folks and brown folks and other represented identities working in these places, it's just a fiction.

But that's what they're basically creating a fiction and then turning that fiction into a book. boogeyman and then being like, ooh, I'm scared. I watched this Fox News report about the Alaska Airlines flight where the door came off. Did you see that? I did. Terrifying. But in the report on Fox News, they were like, oh, well, diversity in pilots is to blame for this. Like, it's DEI.

That's what the problem is here. And it's like, damn, y'all will really blame us for anything. Now we're causing plane problems. Like, you will blame us for anything. Hi, okay, future Bridget here popping in solo without Joey because we just got an update on a story that I was obsessed with even before I ever started doing these News Roundup episodes. So I had to talk about it with y'all. I don't think we ever actually talked about this story on the newscast, but it's one of the more bizarre, not to mention gruesome tech stories that I have heard in a long, long time. Today, the online auction site eBay has been ordered by a Massachusetts court to pay three million dollars in damages after their employees and contractors waged what I can only describe as all-out psychological warfare on a Boston couple. That $3 million is the statutory maximum fine for eBay's charges, and in my book, the couple they harassed deserves every penny of it. So back in

2019, eBay senior executives were annoyed at this couple, the Steiner's, were running a newsletter called e-commerce bites about eBay that was meant to give people who sell stuff on eBay and auction sites, information about the site, happenings with it, news, all of that kind of stuff. According to Yahoo, this harassment campaign began after Ina Steiner wrote a story in her newsletter about a lawsuit brought by eBay that accused Amazon of poaching its sellers according to court records. About a half an hour after Ina Steiner published this article, eBay's then CEO, Devin Wenning, sent another top executive a message saying, quote, if you are ever going to take her down, now is the time.

That executive then sent his message to James Baugh, who was eBay's Senior Director of Safety and Security, and he called Ina Steiner a, quote, biased troll who needs to get burned down. After that, I guess Baugh was like, I am on it because he became the ringleader of this harassment and intimidation campaign against the Steiner's. Side note, also, don't put stuff like this in an email. Like if you're ever going to do something like this, hopefully you're never waging a crazy campaign. of harassment and intimidation against anybody. But if you're ever doing something where you're like, oh, it might be bad if someone were to read these emails, discuss it in person. Your next email should be like, let's talk about it in person. So eBay's head of security basically had other staffers send disturbing packages to this couple's home,

including a bloody pig mask, an actual fetal pig, a box of live spiders, a box of live cockroaches, pornography, and a funeral wreath, along with a book called How to grieve the death of a spouse. So like pretty obviously meant to be a threat or a way to intimidate them. Horrifying. The staffers also traveled to their home. They apparently had a plan when they found that their home was locked. They had a plan and tools to break into their home to install a GPS tracking device on their car. They posted the couple's home address on Craigslist, inviting randos to come to their house for sex parties. These were senior level executives at eBay.

Jim Baugh, eBay Senior Director of Safety and Security, was the ringleader, and he was sentenced to 57 months in prison back in September of 2022 for his role in all of this. Six other employees also face felony convictions for their involvement in this, which include charges of stalking, witness tampering, and obstruction of justice. Acting U.S. attorney from Massachusetts, Joseph S. Levy said eBay engaged in absolutely horrific criminal conduct and that the company's employees and contractors put victims through pure hell in a a petrifying campaign aimed at silencing their reporting and protecting the eBay brand. Imagine doing serious federal jail time because you wanted to protect the brand eBay. So get this, eBay's then CEO, Devin Wenning, the one who was sending those emails about this couple who was harassed, was not criminally charged with anything related to this. But he did step down from eBay in 2019 after it all came to light.

But James Baugh, the ringleader, his lawyers have said that he faced relentless press. from Wenning and other top executives to do something about this couple. He alleged that he was then pushed out by the company when, quote, an army of outside lawyers descended to conduct an internal investigation aimed at saving the company and its top executives from prosecution. It really does sound like this started at the very tippy top, like he, like the former CEO Wenning was on those emails. So it does sound like this started at the very, very tippy top and that this behavior was not just tolerated, but expected, but invited, but like, all but asked to happen. And guess what? That former eBay executive wedding, even though he has not been charged with a crime,

it is not like he is laying low after overseeing a company where this kind of criminal behavior happened. Today, he is the CEO of symbolically AI, a company that he co-founded that is supposed to use AI to help writers and publishers. On his website, he lists all the great accomplishments that he oversaw when he was at eBay, but conveniently does not list overseeing a criminal harassment campaign. Okay, so we got to talk about this new SAG agreement. This summer, actors and screenwriters were in a big standoff of studios in part over AI in what folks like me called Hot Labor Summer. Basically, the question was, could studios use the likeness of actors without their consent to make AI versions of them

that they could use forever and ever and ever without paying up. Well, this week, SAGAFTRA, the union representing more than 150,000 film and TV performers, announced a deal that sets terms for the use of AI voices in video games. So the deal is with Replica Studios, an AI voice technology company, and it establishes protections around the licensing of digitally replicated voices. Duncan Crabtree, Ireland, who is SAGAFTRA's national executive director, told NBC News, I think what's really important about this agreement is the fact that it provides protection for all performers at all levels in the industry. And the fact is, a lot of times performers who may not be famous names really need that protection even more because their bargaining leverage to negotiate those kinds of things individually is not as great.

So one of the big pieces of how performers are thinking about the use of AI is whether or not their voices and likenesses can be used after they die, which is like pretty creepy. Crabtree Ireland said that posthumist deals are possible with the consent of whoever the estate has designated to act on the deceased performers behalf. So I was sort of like set to be like, oh, that's great, that's good. Like I'm so happy they have a deal in place. However, after doing a little more research, I came to find that a lot of performers are either A, angry about this deal or be skeptical of this deal and still have more questions. Like I went to the social media posts that were announcing this agreement and several people were expressing frustration with this agreement and the announcement saying that they did not feel like the union had done a good enough job of representing their interests as it pertains to AI or even just like

educating them on what they need to know about this agreement. And I don't know, I think it's one of those stories where we'll definitely keep an eye on it and give updates where there are updates. But yeah, it sounds like maybe the folks who are being represented here and the folks who are doing the negotiating, there might be a little bit of daylight in between what what both of those parties see as their best interests and whether or not they're being represented. Definitely, yeah. I have a lot of friends who are actors in my life.

So this is something I've been like hearing about from them. People are not happy with this agreement. And like I totally understand it. And it's interesting because I, so like I as an eye heart employee, like I'm part of the Writers Guild. And we weren't on strike. It was just the film and television division. and we were in a different division.

But it was interesting because I feel like with the writer's strike, there was a lot more like transparency about what was happening. Obviously, it's not perfect. But like, you know, I felt like at least like even as somebody who is not in the division that was on strike, like I had kind of an idea what was happening and like what the deal was and like what the like kind of negotiation, how that was going. And I feel like there has there was a lot of like muddiness about around the negotiations. and yeah, again, like, just from

from my friends that are dealing with this because it's their careers, they don't seem to be happy. And I also remember, like, looking at the SAG Instagram posts and, like, opening in the comments and think a bunch of people that are like, especially even when, like, the contract was announced, there were a bunch of videos that were going around

from, like, really prominent actors being like, oh, yes on this. And it was like, why do you have to advertise to people to vote yes? Like, it should be a thing where it's just like, yeah. look, we have a good deal. Do you support it or not? I don't know. Yeah, so this whole thing, I wish the best to sag

and, like, all of the actors everywhere that I have to deal with all of this solidarity. Again, it's rough out here. Yeah, I'm with you. And honestly, like, these performers who are worried about things like their likeness being used via AI, after they're dead. That sounds very creepy and futuristic, but they're not, that's not an outfair concern because just this week, comedy icon, stand-up legend, George Carlin, released a

new comedy special, which is very impressive considering he's been dead since 2008. And the special is called I'm Glad I'm Dead. It is from Dootsey. I'm getting this from variety. I'm about to say this, but I'm not totally sure what it means. Dootcy, comma, a comedy AI that hosts a podcast and YouTube show with MadTV alum Will Sassau and podcaster Chad Kultkin. I don't know what that means. So, like, is Dudescy AI? Like, what is the AI entity in this? It sounds like an onion article, like that, I don't know, that George Carlin specifically.

Like, I cannot think of somebody who would probably be, like, more angry at the fact that his image is being used for, like, an AI. Totally. Like, this is how you get haunted by, like, a spirit that anytime you're trying to concentrate, like, whispers, pithy little observations about society in your ear. Like, you want to be haunted by the ghost of George Carlin? Like, this is how you get haunted by the ghost of George Carlin. Which I would love to be haunted by the ghost of George Carlin. But, like, in a fun way. Like, it's like my little buddy that's just giving me life advice, not in whatever is going to come to these guys. Like, that's going to be something different. Okay, so I'm so confused about what this entity, dudesy is. This is from their website. Will Sassau and Chad Coltkin have been selected by a state-of-the-art entertainment AI to host this first-of-its-kind comedy podcast. Wait, so they were selected by the AI. I don't know if that's a joke or not. I don't know what I'm reading.

It goes on to say, our hosts have been convinced to grant the dudesy AI access to all of their personal emails, text messages, social media accounts, purchases, and browsing histories so that it can tailor the show to their specific personalities and entertain you at the highest level possible. I don't, like, I don't understand what I'm reading. This whole thing, like this sounds like it's a George Carlin. Yes, it sure does. They've been granted permission by like the AI. I don't know. Like, that's how. I am, I am confused. So I'll go on. So Dudescy starts off the comedy special with this. I want to let you know very clearly that what you're about to hear is not George Carlin. And it's my impersonation of George Carlin that I developed in the same way that a human

impressionist would. I listened to all of George Carlin's material and did my best to imitate his voice, cadence, and attitude as well as subject matter I think that would have interests him today. So think of it like Andy Coffin impersonating Elvis or like Will Ferrell impersonating George W. Bush. So I see what Dudescy is doing there. But like he's trying to make us be like, oh, well, this is a more common thing for comedians than you think. But he's naming comedians who impersonate non-comedians. Like, it's not like Will Ferrell impersonating George W. Bush. It's more like Dave Chappelle impersonating Richard Pryor.

Like, it's like a comedian impersonating another comedian. This just sounds like the most annoying dude at the party. Oh, my God. Like, do you want to hear my George Carlin impression? Like, whatever? Like, yeah, oh, my God. Yes. And I'm not even sure if that dude is a dude or AI.

Like, again, I'm not. I am not sure what they're trying to tell me here. So, but I can confirm to you per variety that it is an AI generated impression of Carlin. I don't know in what way this traditionally counts as an impersonation, but there you have it. So this special has Carlin commenting on things in tech that he never got to see because he died in 2008, like Elon Musk buying Twitter and Jeff Bezos's rocket launch into space in 2022. You know what they did forget to do, though, is get any kind of permission. from George Carlin's very much still alive family member.

His daughter, Kelly Carlin, posted on Twitter saying, my dad spent a lifetime perfecting his craft from his very human life, brain, and imagination. No machine will ever replace his genius. These AI-generated products are clever attempts at trying to recreate a mind that will never exist again. Let the artist's work speak for itself. Humans are so afraid of the void that we can't let what has fallen into it, stay there. Here's an idea. how about we give some actual living human comedians a listen to?

But if you want to listen to the genuine George Carlin, he has 14 specials that you can find anywhere. So I hate that she has to make that statement, but I really appreciated it. And yeah, like you were saying, of all the comedians that I feel like would not have rocked with this, I feel like George Carlin especially would not have rocked with this. Yeah, yeah.

And I love George Carlin. And there is a bit. Like I actually just finished edits on an op-ed that opens with a George Carlin bit. I reference it on the show like all the time. You'll probably are sick of me saying it. But I have gotten more wisdom and use out of this one George Carlin bit than I have gotten from anything I've ever encountered in a philosophy book or a college course. And that is his shit versus stuff bit.

You ever notice how your stuff is stuff and everybody else's stuff is shit? But this is not me trying to do an impersonation of him. I literally quote it all the time. But that one, I feel like there is more insight into the human condition and how we all live in a society together in that bit than anything else I've ever read. And it bums me out, like the idea of comedians or podcasters trying to recreate that using AI. It's like, yeah, let the work stand for itself. Not everything needs to be a AI generated copy of something. that was good, that copy probably wouldn't even be good. And his daughter's not into it.

So don't do this. I just really hate this. Thanks so much for being here, Joey. Where can folks keep up with all your awesome work? You can find me on social media at Potnaut Pratt. That's P-A-T-N-O-T-R-A-T-T. And if you want to listen to my other work, you can check out After Lives, the Lailene Falunco story. We just finished up. the kind of main arc, we're posting some sort of bonus content, longer interviews at the moment. But you should definitely check that out. Super important story. But yeah.

Thanks so much for being here. Thanks so much for all your great work. And thanks to all of you for listening. You can find me on social media. You can hit me up on email at hello at tangoiti.com. And you can check out more and free content at our Patreon at tangoity.com slash Patreon. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoody.com slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi?

You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoity. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer.

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