There Are No Girls on the Internet - Target drops DEI so we're boycotting everything - STUFF MOM NEVER TOLD YOU

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

Bridget is hard at work on the new season of TANGOTI, launching in May! Stay tuned for more info, and more pre-launch drops here in the feed!   In the meantime, Bridget went on Stuff Mom Never Told You to talk about how shameless big companies like Walmart and Target abandoned their diversity and inclusion commitments in a misguided attempt to satisfy MAGA blowhards (spoiler: it will not satisfy them). Now customers are calling for a national, general, buy-nothing boycott on Friday, Feb 28. Bridget breaks it all down, and explains why she'll be joining the boycott and why she thinks you should, too.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Hello. I have missed talking to y'all so, so much. And a lot of you all have sent me very kind messages of support since I've been away. So I just wanted to say thank you.

It really, really means a lot to me. And I know that we have kind of a lot to catch up on. So we're going to be back very soon with brand new episodes. But in the meantime, have you heard about the economic blackout plan for February 28th? So it turns out everybody is just sick to death of everything, rising prices, authoritarianism. and the quickness with which some companies just abandoned any kind of commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion work, just because Trump said so. So I joined my friends Samantha and Annie over at the podcast Stuff Mom Ever Told You to get into what all of it means. So take a listen.

Hey, this is Annie. And Samantha. And welcome to Stuffin Never Told You, a production of Eye Heart Radio. And welcome to a very special Stuff Woman Never Told You. We are so excited to be joined once again by the very well-read. the very well-missed. Bridget Todd. We have missed you so much, Bridget.

We're so glad to have you. Oh, my gosh. You are very well missed. I missed you all so much. Thanks for having me here. Like, yeah, I used to kind of rely on shooting the shit with y'all. It's nice to have that outlet.

I've missed it so much. Thank you for having me here. I like that it took us 20 minutes to get to the recording part because we were in such conversation. I was like, oh, yeah. we actually need to do things, but I miss talking with Bridget. So we need to know all the details. Yes, yes.

And you, I mean, you always, there's so much going on right now and so much in the technology sector and so much in so many sectors that I just have a lot of trust in you, Bridget. So you have been very well missed, which is, yeah, I think something I just made up right then. But I know this is a loaded question. How have you been? What's been going on? If anyone watches Real Housewives of New York, there's a meme of Duranda saying, How have I been? Not well, that's why I've been answering that question. Not well. I mean, I have gone, I had the worst year of my life last year,

and I do want to say, like, a big part of that was Annie and Samantha, you both really being such good friends and good collaborators and really giving me a lot of space. And so I want to say, like, thank you for all the support. And so I've had a personally rough go. And then on top of that, everything else that's happening. It feels like I went offline and when I came back, the world was spiraling.

And so, yeah, I have been experiencing despair personally. And then I feel like everybody else kind of also met me in despair. And it's like, oh, we're all in despair together. They're welcome. We're just essentially crying in each other's arms for different reasons, but it all meshes together because the world's on fire. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And here we are like, yay, rigid, tell us about it. Richard, come talk to us about this stuff. Please help us make sense of things. Well, we were talking off Mike about how complicated it is as people who make podcasts and make content. It's like, you have to find this best. balance of like not wanting to severely bum everybody out. And, you know, we're not just people who

make podcasts. Like, I listen to podcasts for fun. And I find myself being like, you know, I can't handle anything real right now. I need to just distract myself with some fluff. I think we're all, both as content creators and as people who take in content and appreciate media, we're all trying to find this, like, sweet spot. I don't know if y'all listening can identify with this, but I've really been struggling with how much to take in to not have me completely be spiraling and how much to take in to keep me informed. It's like I'm trying to find that balance. Right. I think the big conversation is like knowing that we have a responsibility and making sure like we're not the complete like we're, we can't stop everything, but we do have a responsibility in witnessing it and

making sure we're calling it out. But at the same time, sometimes that, That means that our well-being is out the window when we see too much. What do we see? Way too much. And so having that balance of being like, yes, I'm ready to be refreshed and fight again is so hard to do when it feels like as a constant new fight. Exactly. I saw this post that I feel like really summed up where I'm at where it was like,

certainly if I read one more piece of content or one more news article, instead of going to sleep, I will feel totally in control of what. is happening. Like, yes, that could have been written by me. Oh, my goodness. Yes. Well, okay, speaking of, we were discussing a friend of mine who every day is sending me these texts where I can tell she feels she has no control. And I'm kind of like, you need to find something else. I don't, not all day, not all the time. This is not good for you. but we are going to talk about one of the things she used to do to distract herself, which was go to Target.

The store target that was like one of her favorite things, and now she's very conflicted about all of it. And I know that we're going to talk about that, Bridget, yes? Yes. And so I have to say, like, shout out to Annie's friend because her and me both. There's a target that is very close to my apartment. It's walking distance to my apartment. And I'll just like walk around Target just for like a scenery change.

Like the same way people will be like, oh, take a walk in the park. I'm like, oh, let me see what Target has. It's a terrible habit. Y'all can call me out like totally, totally own that it's not good behavior. But I here too far have loved Target. Like there's just something about walking around. Like they really like get the people who are chopping there. And I think that's one of the reasons why the whole thing with Target.

and DEI is it feels personal to me. It feels kind of heartbreaking because, listen, Walmart, stores like that, it's like, they're not stores where I would imagine they are people who see me and, like, you know, get me as a shopper. Target feels, occupies a very different space in my consciousness. So when I hear that some effery is happening with Target, I really don't like it. Does that make sense? Yeah.

You definitely have to go through your list of like, well, that, I can't go. there anymore. And your list starts dwindling. Especially when you, like for the longest time, we kind of not champion because there's still a corporation at the end. But for a while, they were doing some things that were like, yay, finally. You're doing some good initiatives, at least bringing on great products for a diverse group of people, which is apparently the problem.

And actually standing up for it, so it seemed. So to come back and be like, what the hell? Exactly that. So I want to get into all of that. But for folks who don't know what's going on, the Trump administration kicked off with a grip of executive orders, I guess like targeting wokeness through things like overhauling DEI initiative. So this happened in the federal government, like currently right now, folks who work on anything, even tangentially DEI related within the federal government, have been placed on leave. I live in D.C. and that is like what's happening with federal workers. both in the District of Columbia and nationally is like a whole other conversation. It really is horrible. And I think it will impact all of us. I think we will all be less safe because of it. So I wanted to name that.

But when it comes to DEI, it is not just the public sector because Trump also issued executive orders meant to quash DEI programs in the private sector as well. He directed agency heads to drop lists of publicly traded companies to investigate their DEI programs. So this is not a totally new thing. I know that when I was on stuff I'm ever told you a while ago, we were talking about the Supreme Court decision back in 2023 about affirmative action. So another sort of side effect of that Supreme Court ruling was that some of these big private companies started reassessing the legality of their programs after that ruling. So it's not totally new, but Trump being in the White House and sort of starting off his administration with, you know, signaling all of

this pressure on DEI programs really has taken it to a new level. Yes. And I feel like a lot of companies have come out of the woodwork, not just companies, but other like universities and all this. And they're like, yeah, we'll just get rid of that as quickly as possible. It's so ready to be like, yep, okay, didn't want it, gone. Yes. So like, I mean, so like as somebody who covers technology, I have really, I'll say, not shocked but disappointed. When it comes to tech companies, how quickly they were like, gone, gone, gone.

After having to sit through years of listening to these companies talk about or maybe even lie about the way that they support women, LGBTQ people, black people, like, and I think with technology, they have the power to shape so much of our world and so much of our culture that what they do really can set the tone. And so, yeah, it just sucks that we spent any time at all. pretending that these companies gave a crap about any of us, and then how quickly they're like, oh, just kidding. So I'll run through a little bit of where we're at with some of these companies. So Facebook just immediately went along with Trump. Like, we'd be here all day if I listed all the

ways, but just to taste, you know, obviously they rolled back their DEI programs. They rolled back fact-checking immediately. They lifted restrictions on saying things like, quote, women are property on their platforms. And so if that is an attitude that you happen to hold that women are property, I can say that on Facebook all day long, and it is not a problem. You also saw Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg doing things like ordering the removal of tampons from all men's bathrooms and company offices. So these weird things where, as Nashville put it, this decision was not about cost cutting or efficiency. It took effort and served no practical purpose. And and sent a clear message about the company's shifting priority.

So these things that are clearly like they're not about cost cutting. They're not about, you know, making the company more efficient. They're just about making it clear where they're at, which mission accomplished because I really have a very clear understanding of where Facebook is at. Zuckerberg, of course, went on a bunch of podcasts, dressed like a recently divorced nightclub promoter and talked about how Facebook needs more, quote, masculine energy at their companies. Now, again, keep in mind, this is not a company that.

Time magazine describes their current workforce as almost 70% male. So I guess that's like not male enough. We need it to be more male. I don't know how much more male you can get other than like 100% but okay. Which is kind of like the opposite once again of been like you want to be really masculine but a part of your masculinity is like being impressive to women. So were you being so impressive towards each other like bro. Okay. Which I kind of missed the days where we were talking about him in fighting with Elon. I know. Can we go back to those days?

What did it happen to that? So he had a window where people didn't hate him. And what's funny is that I was just reading this study that was like, oh, remember when Mark Zuckerberg changed his look and was trying to go for like a softer, gentler approach? Turns out everybody still hates him. And I was like, oh, who even did this study? Like, what's this a study? But there is a study that apparently that little window where people didn't hate his guts

did not last and had no lasting impact. So he really squandered that tiny sliver of goodwill that he got from people from that like one week or whatever where people didn't completely hate his guts. Right. I think the whistleblowers in his life just really was not having it. So I also missed them. Me too. Frances Howgan, where are you at? We need you.

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give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Live 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Speaking of big companies, we know like there were several big CEOs and executives that were aligned and excited to do exactly what Trump has been wanted to do, including Amazon, right? Yeah, they scaled back their DEI program pretty quickly. Google.

say two companies that did not immediately scale back to EI or Apple and Microsoft, both of those companies kind of reaffirmed their commitment to DEI. Companies are so companies, so I don't want to be like giving them too much rah-rah credit. Microsoft has been very chummy with Trump, but I do want to give credit where credit is due on DEI specifically because I do think like it's a choice. You know, one of the big companies that did not scale back DEI that we'll talk more about in a bit is Costco, right? And so these companies, even despite these executive orders, these companies don't have to immediately comply. Immediately complying with these executive orders is a choice, right? And so I wouldn't even, like a lot of people have described this moment as sort

of a mask off moment, especially when it comes to tech companies. I wouldn't even say I agree with this. I don't think that these companies have like necessarily not wanted to do including work all along. I don't think that that, I think the people who run these companies will just align themselves with whoever is in power and whatever is the favorable position at the moment. And so I don't even think it's a mask off moment. Like, I don't think Mark Zuckerberg is showing his true colors. I don't think he has true colors. These are people who not, who don't have genuine values or backbone. And so if you don't really, if you don't really value anything, it's not really a mask off moment because your value is just power and money.

Right. And it's interesting because we've had so many conversations about places like Google and tech companies like them and how their initial setup was kind of like, we're the cool nerds that you want to come work for. We're the ones that's offering, you know, unlimited PTO, but we really don't think you should take it. We're the ones that's bringing in women of color to be leaders, but not really because we weren't fired them because they're talking too much and giving too many suggestions. Like it's interesting to see how quickly that they were like, oh, finally, we don't. have to pretend to be the cool nerds and just be the alpha males that we've been training to be essentially. So I actually think you're spot on. And I do think we really need to have more conversations about the cultural dynamic of some of these tech leaders and some of these tech companies, because I think it is how we sort of got into this mess in some ways. Because, you know, if you think back to like, you know, think back to the day, the early days of platforms like Instagram, the early days of iPhone technology and the people who made it occupied a very

specific place in our cultural popular imagination, right? It was Google offices that looked really cool that had pinball machines and open offices, right? Google's motto used to be don't be evil until they dropped that motto officially in 2018. I think they might have just taken off the don't, right? Maybe it's now like a little evil for a treat is fine. I think that we gave them so much space and so much runway to be these cool nerds who are going to be using technology to improve all of our lives. And we kind of trusted that that's what they were doing. And I think that because of that trust, now when we check back in and it's like, wait, are you guys actually still invested in building a better future? And they're like, now, we're invested in making money to

exploiting you, actually. I think that's where we're at. And so I think it's really, you're so right to bring up the sort of cultural dynamics that are, running some of these companies and in tune shaping our understanding and attitude around them. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to lie. One of the best almost like immediate examples was TikTok. TikTok with its like trying to fight the government. I'm here for you. We're here for your voice and we want to represent for your First Amendment rights. And then being like, oh, we love Donald Trump. He's going to save us. Let's give money to him. Like it's such a switch quick turnaround. We were all like, oh, we were rooting for you for a split second. Like, we were kind of doubting you in a few things, but now, like, oh, they were such a quick turnaround of exactly what we saw play out, except it took a little while longer.

I had the exact same feeling. Like, I remember thinking, oh, TikTok CEO is like, this young guy, he's so savvy, blah, blah, blah. How quickly he turned heel, right? So, like, don't trust any of these leaders. I don't care how savvy they look. I don't care how young they are. Like, a tech company will break your heart. A tech company will exploit you, take your money, get rich off of it,

and then expect you to champion them like a goddamn luminary because of it. Absolutely not. I mean, again, Target for a split second. I really, we really were like, oh, they're bringing in black women own products, and we want to like cheer that on. They're standing up for the LGBTQ plus community. We love that. You know, really seeming like they're paying beyond their minimum wage

and people are being like, we're excited. And then it turned to this. Yes, so let's get into it. So on January 24th, Target announced they were going to be rolling back their DEI initiatives, including programs to foster and promote black-owned businesses in its stores. This is following Trump's signing of an executive order, ending DEI programs federally. So they sent around a memo by staff member Kira Fernandez, targets chief community impact and equity officer and a black woman herself. In this memo, the company said they were going to stop conducting external diversity surveys and submitting information to the human. and rights campaign corporate equality index, which evaluates corporate policies on LGBTQ plus inclusion. The memo said, quote, throughout 2025, we'll be accelerating action in key areas and implementing changes with the goal of driving growth and staying in step with the evolving external landscape. And so just like what you were saying, Sam, this is particularly notable because Target really did seem like one of those retailers that was making and signaling investment in.

things like inclusion, especially after 2020. So Target, their headquarters is based in Minneapolis where George Floyd was killed. So in 2020, Target reiterated its racial equity, action, and change initiative, which involves things like anti-racism training for employees and prioritize hiring and promoting Black staff. And they really look to grow the number of Black-owned businesses at Target. In 2021, Target pledged to invest $2 billion in Black-owned businesses by the end of 2025 as part of this program. And so here's the thing that I always like to talk about when it comes to things like DEI and inclusion.

These programs don't just exist because they're like the nice thing to do, which they are. They're good business. They make companies money. These companies exist to make money. And it turns out that inclusion is good for business. Target's chief executive officer, Brian Cornell, told Fortune's Leadership Next podcast in 2023 that all of these like inclusion and diversity-focused initiatives quote, fueled so much of our growth over the last nine years. So they are definitely cashing in and making money off of traditionally marginalized people as a consumer block.

I wonder how close to that goal were they when 2025 happened, like, to giving those billions of investments. Like, were they actually that close? Or maybe, I wonder, conspiracy theory is like they were nowhere near. So they're like, just roll it back and pretend like it never happened because we're not going to meet this. I mean, that wouldn't surprise me. So this is like a hot tip for listeners. Whenever a company is like, we pledge to do X, Y, Z thing, right?

It's always good practice to follow up because half the time they've done nothing and they're just like not counting on anybody following up. So it's like they can say anything. They could say we pledge to do whatever. And it's like if no one's following up, they can just get all the good PR and goodwill without actually doing the thing that they voluntarily said they were going to do. Right.

No one asked for these numbers. You brought this up. this, I'm sure you've run into this before Bridget as a medium that depends on advertisers. Sometimes, like, during, like, Pride Month, they'll be like, this company is going to do this and do this and do this. And I'll be like, okay, tell me how. Silence. Never hear from them again.

Like, hmm. Yeah, I wasn't expecting. I wouldn't have said that if I thought you were going to, like, ask a follow-up. They're never expecting a follow-up. people to donate to your companies that you're going to donate. Well, what are you going to do, though? What?

You? They're going to give the money to those organizations and then write it off as their taxes as if they donated the money and not the customers. Obviously, Annie, come on. So naive I am.

Honestly, like that whole rolling up of like the change and then everybody's like, don't do that because they're using this as a tax break, I was like, oh, yeah, that's all that. Oh, damn it. Why am I so evil? I mean, like, that's the thing.

Like, I want to be clear. It's not like I'm, it's not like I, like I, like, I, as someone who is very critical of things like capitalism, I didn't think Target was really my friend or really my ally, even when they did this stuff. So it's not, I'm not expecting any corporation or any company to, like, truly meaningfully be an ally. But I do think these companies that go out of their way to signal to me, you know, as a. black woman consumer that like we care about you. We, we like understand that you are fueling our profit margin. So like let's try to be aligned with like giving you the customer experience that you want. I do think that matters. And so especially a company like Target, I don't know if folks really understand the role that Target plays, especially for black women. Like, you know, back in the day,

Back in the day when I first grew my hair out natural, there were not a lot of mainstream stores where you could walk in and find a well-stocked natural hair care aisle. Target was one of the first, right? And so it really, I think, went out of their way to curry a lot of favor with black women as a consumer base because of that kind of thing being like, oh, what is it that you actually use? What is it that you're actually looking for? How can we fill the niches in your, in your, you know, shopping situation? I think Target did that very well. And I think it really positioned them as a place where they were signaling to the people who actually give them money. Like, hey, we see y'all, we know what y'all need.

We know what we're listening to you. As the cut points out, the retailer's black-owned brands span categories from home to apparel and beauty, including hair care brands, the dough, Camille Rose, and the viral meal and beauty brand, the lip bar. These brands fill a void in the market, making products for various skin, tones and hair textures available. For example, the dough has its viral curle-defining moose beloved by the natural hair community. So it really

did play a particular role, I think, in a lot of black women's shopping diets. Yeah, I mean, and it was like you said, a mainstream store to do it. And it felt, I don't know, we, like you've

said, we have said, they're companies, they're not allies, But it felt nice to be like, okay, I can go here. And this place is with me, kind of gets me. This seems like a, it doesn't feel as bad that I'm going here. You know, I don't feel the same guilt. Maybe it's going somewhere else. I think this also brings into the conversation about the fact that they need to, like,

erase this as in like take this out because of why. this is obviously a bigger conversation and trying to make a publicity stunt, essentially, just like bringing off products and bringing saying like, okay, so diversity and equity and inclusion in these, what does that mean exactly? And in this conversation, it's pretty much saying, okay, we will now exclude a certain group of people that were excluded previously before this time, and by doing so, we're going to make white supremac feel more comfortable because they were uncomfortable with, I don't know, shopping with people of color, like such a conversation like they, but why? Why is this so important

that Target needs to do this? Like, they were making money off of this and they're so afraid of, or I guess maybe they are just white supremacist, one of those two things, in order to satisfy a group of people who didn't even know it was a thing for, like the longest time people were just like, oh, what is this new stuff? Okay, moved on, except where people finally said, this is Black. Oh, and they're like, oh, my God, what? Yeah, I mean, that's a really good question. I honestly think that in this moment, it's just about signaling alignment with Trump and the new administration.

I think that, like, you know, Target has been making good money off of marketing toward marginalized people, right? I mean, y'all remember when the last time that Target was in the crosshairs of a lot of extremists because they had a well-stocked, robust pride section for pride, things like that. And Target caved on that. Like, I will say like, so I think it really just illustrates that these companies, whatever is in power, whatever is the, like, they don't actually have values or backbones. and we shouldn't necessarily even be expecting them to. They'll just cave and bend to whoever is in power.

And what makes it even more frustrating is like after they will do that after they signaled that they want to be more aligned with these communities. So Chantelle Powell, who was a black entrepreneur who makes a deodorant for kids called PlayPits, which was stocked at Target, she put it really well. She said, quote, it's frustrating. Corporations jumped on the bandwagon to support black businesses when it was trendy. Now that it's easier to discard us, that's what they're doing. And so, yeah, I just don't think that these companies give a crap, really.

It's all posturing. It's all signaling. Like, they don't really have any kind of, like, values to genuinely stick to or affirm. Like, in moments of, you know, upheaval, the thing that you can always go back to as your North Star is values. Like, as a content creator, I had to have a whole conversation when Trump took power of, like, well, what are my values and what are my in this moment to actually serve the people that I want to be in community with. When you have values that is always your North Star, these companies do not have any value. So, of course, they're going to blow wherever the wind blows.

Right. They're going to do the bottom line, which there's so much, again, like in this conversation about how, who was easily discarded first? And this is all about the virtue signaling as they want to say. Because as robust as their, like, stock was, it wasn't. Like, you still had to, like, purposely find it, and it was a shock to see it. Like, I remember the many times of like, oh, that's cute. Oh, look, it's, you know, a black owner or a black creator who did this.

That's amazing because it's one out of 100. You know, like, to see, it was notable because there wasn't that many. So even the most, like, diverse products were just literally one out of 50, one out of 100. Like, it still wasn't. I remember back when extremists were targeting Target, because, of the pride stuff and the LGBTQ stuff, people would get upset because Target sold chest binders, right, for trans folk. And it's like, okay, so you don't need a chest binder. Why is it so horrible that like out of 100, like, when you go into the underpants section of Target, 99.99,999% of

garments are designed for cis people. And they have one product for trans people and it's the end of the world. Like, how is that really the biggest complaint that you could make right now? Right. I mean, our sports bras alone are just as offensive to me sometimes. But anyway, why would you? In all of those statements, it really, like, as much as we want to tell out that they were inclusive, they weren't. And the amount of hate that people will give in order to make it seem. Again, we know that haters in general want to want to create controversy. So they would go out trying to

look for anything that they're like, this is controversial, this is this, why does this have to be this? And half the time, again, it was misinformation or disinformation and being like this black product, this for the black community, was often created by white corporations. Like we saw that many a times.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So when Target announced their intention to pull back from these initiatives, people were not happy. Some, like Minneapolis council member Jason Chavez, and Strike for All, which is an advocacy organization run by former Senator Anita Turner, called for a boycott of Target in response, which is currently still going on. This was a little bit tricky in that Target backing away from DEI does not mean that, like, black and brown owned companies are going to be, you know, pulled from the shelves. And so you saw a lot of black creators and black entrepreneurs being like, well, wait, if you boycott Target and you're not going to go to Target, it will hurt us. even more because that's less people who are buying our items from the shelves.

Maya Smith, who is a black woman and the founder of the Doe, the hair care brand, shared this statement on Instagram saying, pulling black dollars from these retailers doesn't hurt the corporations as much as it hurts the brands you love. It also feeds into false narratives that were only here because of DEI initiatives, not because of the countless sacrifices and creativity we've poured into creating a lasting impact on the textured hair category through the dough. You might say like, oh, well, I'll just buy directly from this brand rather than buying it from Target. But Powell, the founder of PlayPits, that Kids Deodorant Company, said that buying directly online might not actually be so helpful for some of these Black-owned brand.

She said, Big Box retailers are a predictable revenue stream. Online, I might make $2,000 one day and $200 the next, but with Target, I have a consistent flow of income. It's also a convenient opportunity for my customers to shop my products. For mom's convenience is key. And so I get where these creators are coming from. I do want to spotlight that one of my favorite black creators who has the brand, Oh Happy Danny, immediately announced that she was cutting ties with Target and like phasing her stuff off the shelves as soon as Target made this announcement.

But, you know, I do understand the complexities here because it is not a clear-cut situation. and I don't want to say that I have the answer. But I understand that people want solidarity from some of these black creators that they see on the shelves at Target. But I also understand that, hey, if you're a black creator and a black entrepreneur, you do have a harder time

compared to your non-black counterparts, right? And so, you know, people are basically saying, like, well, why should I be expected to miss out even more because of a decision that Target made? I can really understand both positions. Right. It's one thing to say we're going to boycott McDonald's and Starbucks and the such, but doing specific things with these creators who have brands.

It is hard. Like we talked about the fact that also it's really hard for individuals in general to try to figure out what's a good company because all these grocery stores or all these stores, they have something, whether it's anti-union, whether they don't pay their employees enough, or whether they're rolling back DEI, or whether they gave to the Republican Party.

or Donald Trump themselves. It's really hard to try to do conscientious buying when you are stuck. And again, we talked about disabilities previously about how it's also impossible to not do delivery service for a lot of disabled people, even though like corporations like Amazon is awful. However, they give access to those who can't go out. Like, it's such a hard conversation about what to do and how to truly support without hurting the people you're trying to support. Yeah, I've really been struggling with this in my personal life as well.

Like, I am trying to boycott Target and Amazon, but, you know, easy for me to say as an able-bodied person with discretionary income and no kids, right? Like, if you're a busy new parent or somebody with a disability, I don't begrudge you anything that you got to do to get through the day. But I know that I personally do have some wiggle room, right? And so what's been interesting to me is I'm, I wouldn't say I'm boycotting any particular company for any particular stance. However, I'm really just reassessing the role that these companies play in my habits more generally, right? Like Amazon is a terrible company. They are terrible for the world in so many reasons. And Amazon's owner, Jeff Bezos, is incredibly buddy-buddy with Trump.

When Trump was inaugurated, you saw the whole line of tech assholes, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos. I live in D.C. Jeff Bezos owns Amazon. Jeff Bezos owns where I get my health care, one medical. He bought that. Jeff Bezos owns my local newspaper, The Washington Post. He owns that. Jeff Bezos owns where I do my grocery shopping, Whole Foods.

He owns that. Like, how much of my life does one billionaire get to control? And so it's not even about one specific policy. It's more that I am trying to reject that entire dynamic. And one way that I'm doing that on a small personal level is just trying to buy, shop small, shop local, my local places when I can, and shop less in general.

Like, do I need to be consuming so much? Who is this supporting? Who am I empowering with my dollar when I go in and mindlessly buy something I don't even really need? And so I don't think it has to be some kind of a big boycott necessarily. You can just through small ways to decide to know, I want to participate in this kind of an economy less and less. And I just think that's true for so many people.

Right. But yeah, we still have to keep in consideration and, like, as a whole, who has the privilege to do that? You know, we talked about you and I and Annie have reliable cars that can take us places. I said Annie has a dot, dot, dot, because her car's getting there. And Annie, question marks, maybe for a couple more months? No, her Honda's still running. Not a sponsor. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guide,

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Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

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Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is kind of going off topic, and I do want to ask what your thoughts are because I've seen a few posts saying, like, February 28th is a blackout day where people being told don't buy anything. Don't consume anything. Let that be the day that no one buys things if you can. Are those things, like, are those things effective?

Does that do where one day a lot more people do not consume? And so therefore, they kind of make a dip in that day. Are things like that a viable way of protesting some of these evil corporations? Oh, I think absolutely. So it's funny. you bring this up because I was just reading a post on Reddit by that witchy lady with like three wise. And they said that the title of the post is to those saying boycotts won't work from a former retail worker. And they write, I keep seeing misinformation being spread to the tune of boycotts don't work. No one cares. You'll be back at Target in no time. I'm here to share my experience as a retail worker. I've worked retail at four different chains and I ask that other retail workers chime in. They absolutely have the ability to work because these businesses

care way more about their numbers than the average consumer who has never worked retail realizes. When I was working for corporate-owned women's clothing store, we'd get hourly updates about meeting our goals, literally piped into our ears. Numbers got reported to the team daily. Everyone knew when we were hitting our goals and when we weren't and when we were pushed to sell, sell, sell. I was just a tiny, little cog in the machine. But if that's what's being said and pressured onto me, imagine what these big wigs and their boardrooms are talking about. I think that the February 28th economic boycott has the power to scare them.

Why? Because I saw my direct managers obsessed over these numbers on an hourly basis. Please join the economic boycott on W.A. 28th. You know money talks, which is why they are trying so hard to tell you that it doesn't matter. They're doing it because it does matter. So that's just one retail workers' opinion, but I got to think that they're on the money with something

because, you know, especially in a time where we don't feel like we have a lot of power or a lot of agency or a lot of voice, our money, our spending power, our economic power really does have weight. Like, that is power. Right. I'm glad you read that because I go back and forth on, again,

understanding what is effective and what isn't, whether a boycott is or isn't effective, who is able to do what and participate and who is being hurt by some of these protests. Of course, I don't give a shit about the corporations. We know they're evil. I'm not talking about them in general. But, again, like the entrepreneurs who have products

in these different companies that I've also seen them talk about Amazon. That like that does help with sales. It gives me money. Like it gives us whatever ratings or whatnot, which again, I am not touting Amazon. I pause my membership and all of that. I've done it. I'm like, I feel too dirty because I was depending on it so much because I didn't want to go out to Target and actually walk about and see people. But all of that in conversation of like if this does work, then we need to be shouting it louder. Because yeah, we want to at least be effective and doing the things as effectively as possible. if we were able to do so

and being prepared for it. And honestly, outside of a couple of TikTok posts, I haven't seen much about it. Have you all? The economic blackout? Yeah. I have, but I am like pretty deep into a lot of like,

buy nothing, jam the cogs of capitalism in these small ways online spaces. But I guess I'm curious if my friends who were like not in those spaces if they're seeing any of it at all. People listening might be like, there's an economic boycott on February 28th being planned? I've never heard of it.

You haven't. So that's the question. It's like how widely is it being spread? Hey, y'all, there's an economic blackout on the 28th of February. If you're listening to this on the day, it's released. That's the other part. We're podcasts. I don't know when this is going to be.

So here's a little bit of information I just found. So according to CBS, behind the boycott is a group called the People's Union, USA, a self-described grassroot organizations. founded by John Schwartz, a 57-year-old dad from Queens, New York, who said that he's been promoting the consumer blackout for weeks on social media. The People's Union says it has no political affiliation but focuses on, quote, fairness, economic justice and real systemic change. So the call to action, or rather inaction, is asking that American consumers refrain from making any purchases at major retailers on Friday, February 28th. The protest comes as people continue to endure rising prices on everything from food to gas to housing and utilities,

epitomized by the soaring cost of eggs, which in January averaged $4.95 a dozen. So, yeah, that is the information. If you're interested in participating, you can go online and find out more. But I understand because, like, again, like, for me, it's really not about any one policy or store. It's like, I do not want to continue to participate in an economic system that just continues to exploit me. And I understand that, like, we're in capitalism, so what am I going to do? But like, I can do, in small ways, I can opt out of that system more and more. Like, I've been really, you know, it sounds so small and stupid and in some ways I understand that it is, but like, I've been growing herbs on my balcony. So when I need fresh herbs, I'm not running to

Target. I just have them on my balcony. I've been cooking more at home. I've been like, rather than going on and buying new stuff, I'm like using free groups and like, you know, things like that of like, I just want to participate in. this economy less and less because it is just so exploitative. Right. And just coming back on track onto all the information that you are bringing us, this is that conversation once again when I come back in the confused era of like DEI and why it's so offensive to people and why they think is so harmful when in actuality it's not.

Well, you know who definitely doesn't find it harmful and that's Costco. So the same climate that had companies like Target abandoning their DEI initiatives and their inclusion work so quickly, Costco exists in that same environment. And guess what? They didn't cave on anything. So to be super clear, I know I've said this before, but DEI and inclusion is not just like the right thing to do. It is profitable. It makes companies money.

You know, just like that Target executive saying that supporting inclusion in 2020 made the company money, being able to cast a wide net when you're doing things like hiring and, being able to attract all different kinds of people who want to spend money with your brand is good business. So Costco got approached by the Trump administration and was trying to be, they were trying to pressure Costco into dropping their DEI programs. And Costco basically was like, no, our programs are fine. Y'all can kick rocks. Nineteen attorneys general led by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, which by the way, he's a real piece of work. Google him if you've got a bear a minute because these are a real piece of work. And Iowa Attorney General Brenna Burtair are

currently trying to pressure Costco into abandoning their DEI initiatives. They sent Costco a letter saying, with 300,000 employees, Costco likely has at least 200,000 employees who are potentially victims of illegal discrimination because they are white, Asian, male, or straight, even if only a fraction of those employees were to file suit and only some of these prove successful, the cost to Costco could be tens of billions of dollars. So that's like pretty clearly a threat. And to essentially extort Costco. Costco's board's response was, our board has considered this proposal and believes that our commitment to an enterprise rooted in respect and inclusion is appropriate and necessary.

The report requested by this proposal would not provide meaningful additional information to our shareholders, and the board thus unanimously recommends a vote against this proposal. First of all, I hate that they include an Asian, but I know that they do. But like, I'm still like, ah, stop that. But all these things, I will say on a good note, because there was a moment where I was iffy with Costco for a split second. I was like, I can't go nowhere because they had an almost union strike. However, before it could go down, Costco followed the lead and actually worked with the unionized

members and gave them the raises that they deserved. So kudos. It worked out. It took a little pressuring. But I'm glad to know that they're not anti-union. So that is a plus BTDubs because that's one of the big questions. Like the last five years, I feel like I've just seen more and more conversations about whether it's DEI or it's anti-union. And I'm like, why do you have to be so mean to your peoples?

But like seeing that they were able to actually be on top of it is nice. Nice. It's not on top of it, but finally like understanding everything from every aspect, it felt like, okay, maybe I need to buy a freezer from them so I can store the large amounts of food. that they sell. I mean, I find their $1.50 cents hot dogs delightful. And my late father, rest his soul, he loved to brag about how you could return anything to Costco for cash no matter what. He was like a real abuser of that policy.

You know what? You know, I'm not saying this because I think that, like, Costco is some, like, idealist crusader ally. I'm sure they're terrible in a million other ways. But I think that they are a kind of. company that likes making money and they have done the math and they have probably realized that their DEI and inclusion policies help them make money. And it seems like, honestly, I have to say, like it does seem like Target is experiencing some financial consequences here.

To be clear, retail shopping is down generally in part, I think because of things like inflation and rising prices and economic uncertainty and, like, changing consumer habits. But Target and Walmart both saw their retail numbers fall in the the wake of pulling their DEI initiatives, while Costco did not. Again, I don't specifically know if this is because of the boycott or because of DEI, but this is according to Retail Brew. Foot traffic is down at Target stores, according to data from Placer AI prepared exclusively for Retail Brew. In the week that began January 27th, foot traffic fell 4%, then fell 8.6% the week beginning February 3rd and 3.9% the week beginning February 10th. This was the first drop in traffic

this year for Target, with foot traffic for the first four weeks of 2025 up between 5% and 11.8%. Walmart was the same. Meanwhile, Costco has seen traffic rise for the same three-week period, up by 5.8% on the week beginning January 27th, 5.7% on the week beginning February 3rd, and 4.6% on the week beginning February 10th. So is this the result of like people boycotting Target, not going to target, you know, not wanting to shop at places that have these kinds of policies? I don't know. But what I do know is that women have money. In fact, most financial decisions being made in households are being made by women. Black people have money. Queer people have money. Trans people have money. We spend money. We have real economic power. And I think all of us really

have to understand that and like understand what that means that it matters where we put our money. it matters who we choose to financially support. And I agree with that person's comment on Reddit that the fact that they keep trying to convince us that it's not powerful, it doesn't matter, should be a signal to all of us that it actually does. Yeah, you're right. Without all the misinformation and disinformation that we get,

it wouldn't be surprising that corporate people would want us to think this doesn't work so that we would stop doing it. Exactly. Yeah, like, no, I, you know, You haven't hurt me at all. And secretly they're getting those numbers. Oh, no.

That hurts. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what happens. And I know, I know for a lot of us, us and our listeners, it is something that we're all wrestling with these ways. We can make these changes in this system. And there's so many different factors to it. But yeah, definitely where you put your money and who you choose.

to support with your money. That's a big one. That's a big one. Very important. Especially now. Like, this is the time. And again, just, I think I've said this, but I want to say it clearly, like, easy for me to say, I am a parent. I live in an easily walkable community.

You know, I am able-bodied, like, easy for me to say. But, like, if you're someone for whom that is the case, you can, you know, be choosy about how and where you spend your money. Not everybody has that luxury. And if you are somebody who's listening who does, that's great. Like, we should be the people who are making those kinds of decisions. Yes. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Bridget. We are so happy to have you back on.

It was so good to talk with you. Where can the good listeners find you? This has been a pleasure. I miss shooting the S with you all. And if you want to shoot the S with me, you can listen to my podcast or Arner Girls on the Internet or follow me on Instagram at Bridgett Marie in DC. Yes, yes.

And go do that, listeners. And if you would like to contact us, you can. You can email us at hello at stuff whenever told you. You can find us on Blue Sky at MomStuff Podcasts or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff Whenever Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have a T. Public Store and we have a book. You can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as always to our Super Producer Christina,

executive producer Maya and a contributor, Joey. Thank you. Thanks to you for listening. Step One Never Told You's projection by Heart Radio. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, you can check out the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to your favoriteship. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

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Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman.

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Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline.

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