There Are No Girls on the Internet - Taylor Swift fans prompt IRS scrutiny on ticket resellers; Linda Yaccarino’s cringey Code interview; Yelp versus Crisis Pregnancy Centers; New Deep Fake legislation – NEWS ROUNDUP

Episode Date: September 29, 2023

Bridget’s other podcast BEEF is nominated for 3 Signal Awards! Can you vote for BEEF to win? Just go to https://ncpodcasts.com/signal Apple removes app created by Andrew Tate: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/sep/22/apple-criticised-for-hosting-app-created-by-andrew-tate Why We’re Pulling Our Recommendation of Wyze Security Cameras: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/wyze-security-breach/ The EU says Twitter/X is the worst platform for disinformation: https://www.techspot.com/news/100297-eu-former-twitter-platform-x-worst-disinformation.html ​​Bill would criminalize 'extremely harmful' online 'deepfakes’: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bill-criminalize-extremely-harmful-online-deepfakes/story?id=103286802&cid=social_twitter_abcnp If You Resold Taylor Swift Eras Tour Tickets, the IRS Is Watching: https://gizmodo.com/irs-begins-taxing-concert-ticket-resale-taylor-swift-1850865265See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Learn how podcasting can help your business. Call 844-844-I-Hart. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.

And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Bridget. So when I'm not making There Are No Girls on the Internet, I'm also the host of a podcast called Beef, where we're serving up the juiciest historical rivalries that you've never heard of. And I'm so pleased to share that Beef is a finalist for three Signal Awards. So could you do me a huge favor and vote for Beef to win best writing, best emerging podcast, and best host?

Just go to NC Podcasts.com slash Signal. Voting is open until October 5th. Thank you so much. It really means a lot. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. I am here with my producer Joey. Joey, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome back.

Hey, Bridget. Thanks for having me. So I think we should just get right into it because everybody on Twitter is talking about Linda Yaccarino's performance at the big tech conference code. Oh, my gosh. Have you seen or heard anything about this? I have not. So usually we do a segment about like, oh, what's Elon Musk done now? What's Elon up to?

this is really what's Linda Yaccarino up to. So Linda Yacarino, for folks who don't know, was named as the new CEO of Twitter a while ago. I would say it kind of seems like Linda is not as publicly involved as you might expect a CEO to be. Like, it seems like Elon Musk will say something and she announced a big change

and she won't even like acknowledge it or anything like that. So like the vibe has been like, is she really in charge? Is she really the CEO? When she came on board, she definitely was getting that treatment where she was talking about how she really loves a challenge. Like, she's the person that you call when you want someone who was like really going to turn a ship around.

And she was using a lot of language that I really quickly recognize as setting up a woman to come in and like clean up the mess of a male CEO, a male leader. Like I heard a lot of like, this is someone who really wants to be seen as someone who is really like capable and going to come in and do a good job. Well, her performance at the Tech Conference Code did not go well and is not really doing a good job of aligning with what I think is her like public myth making around herself. So first, Kara Swisher interviewed Yuel Roth, former head of trust and safety at Twitter. Roth is someone who I've seen talked about in some ways that I would say are not exactly accurate.

You might remember that Roth was working at Twitter in the pre-Elon Musk days and then stuck around once Elon Musk took over. I've seen him described as a whistleblower, but I really push back against that framing because when Elon Musk took over Twitter, he was fine to go along with all the practices that Elon Musk was putting forth. There are other folks who left Twitter

when Elon Musk took over, who I would say, like, were actual genuine whistleblowers who were blowing the whistle on Twitter's internal practices once Elon Musk took over. I would not put Yoel Roth in that camp. You might remember that Yowell Roth was like on board until Musk very publicly turned on him. Musk kind of publicly insinuated that Roth, who is openly gay, is a sexual threat to children. And after this happened, Roth and his family had to flee their home for their own safety.

So I will say this, had that been me, had Elon Musk taken over my company and then publicly smeared me as a threat to children and that I had to leave my home. and I was invited on a big platform to talk about Twitter. I can just imagine what I would have said. Like, it would have come up. I probably would have had a lot to say. However, Roth really just kept it professional. He talked about how there had been a rise in hate speech on Twitter since Elon Musk took over, saying, by any measure, it is worse, except by Twitter's own measure, which is basically

what we've all been saying all along. So even though Roth just stuck to like clear stats about Twitter, like talking about the platform. Linda Yacarino seemed very rattled by him being there. Linda was interviewed right after Roth and to be honest just came off really unprepared and it didn't do a ton to, you know, address concerns that like Elon Musk is still running the show and like, you know, running Twitter off of his whims without really consulting her. Listen for yourself. Elon Musk just announced a new monthly fee for users. Yeah. And my question for you is, do you want to start charging? all users of X, as he said,

and how many users do you think you will lose as a result? Can you repeat? Elon Musk announced you're moving to an entirely subscription-based service. Nothing free about using X. Did he say we were moving to it specifically or is thinking about it? He said that's the plan.

Yeah. So did he consult you before he announced that? We talk about everything. I guess she sounds very PR-trained. sounds like the, like, if I were the PR person for Twitter slash X, whatever you want to call it right now, I would be like, yeah, let's, let's, you know, do you say it or is it just like an idea that's out there or thinking about it? Like, I, yeah, that's so PR speak. So, Yacarino then tried to give some big, impressive number about how advertisers were returning to the platform, but then those numbers were refuted by external analysis.

Then, when asked about the current rise and anti-Semitic content on Twitter, including from her boss, Elon Musk, according to business insiders Ben Bergman, she apparently looked down at her watch and said, I need to leave to catch a flight. And that's just like,

I can't imagine a more awkward thing to say. Like, I think someone's calling me in the other room. I gotta go. Yeah, no, that's like, like, oh, look at my wrist. I gotta go. That is, there's no way. that's a real excuse. Yeah.

So of all the things that you could say, I feel like that's the most awkward. Like, you know that emoji, that awkward emoji that has the curly mouth that just like, oh, that was basically everybody's face in the audience because it was so awkward. People have described this as like a scene

from a rested development because that's how awkward it was. Now, I think this is really just an instance of like, you work for a company. You have fired or let go most, if not all, of your comm staff. the person who, like, is at the very top of the company, the owner, Elon Musk, is someone who is very erratic. I think that like this is what you get when all of those conditions are met.

And so some folks, some like pretty big name tech folks accused tech journalist Kara Swisher, you know, the organizer of the conference of sandbagging Yacarino by booking Roth as a surprise guest. But this is not really what happened. Swisher confirmed that Yaccarino knew that Roth would be speaking and was even given the option to pick whether she wanted to speak before him or after him. And that apparently Twitter, like, decided that they wanted to have the last word. So it's not like, this was a total surprise. According to Kara Swisher, she texted Linda Yaccarino personally.

And she had about 12 hours notice that, like, hey, this person's going to be speaking to. Yeah, like how you were describing Roth before. And this isn't like a dig on him, I'm sure, whatever. But it seems like he's like the most like mild sort of like. center of the field person you could ask to talk about this. Because again, it sounds like, yeah, he didn't leave. He was sort of like, I'm just going to keep doing my job and see what happens. And yeah, if you have a marginalized identity, you will be targeted for that,

regardless of how, you know, much of a team player you are. And again, this is like a good example of that. But yeah, it sounds like he's sort of, you don't really know which direction he could go with this. And yeah, that's a good way to describe him. And honestly, to me, like I said, if Elon Musk had targeted me for my identity and put my kids at risk, you can believe that when I got on a stage, I wouldn't be talking about the platform stats, right? So, like, part of me is like, well, this is like a testament to the fact that Roth is not going personal, but he's just like sticking to the stats.

I completely agree with your assessment of who he is in this situation. And I was pretty surprised to see a lot of big names in tech media, people like Jason, Calacanis from the All In podcast, which is like probably the number one tech podcast in the world, like every fucking week. I have no problem with that, but like it is what it is. And a business reporter at Axios, they were on Twitter saying like, oh, Linda Yacarino got sandbagged by Kara Swisher. This is so unprofessional. And Kara Swisher is never going to be able to book high profile tech leaders for this conference. And like this conference is really going to be not as big of a deal if this is how they're going to treat their high profile guests. And,

I really need to like push back on that, that framing because, you know, I think it really, it's one of those situations where it's like, wow, you all have so little integrity as tech, tech leaders and journalists, people are supposed to be informing the public. You could not be making it clearer that what you actually care about, what you actually value is access. This is something that Paris marks, the host of Tech Will Not Save Us, that podcast speaks to quite a bit, which is like, these people could not have made it any clearer that they don't care about holding tech leaders accountable. They don't care about asking the kinds of questions that are actually going to help us, the public, understand what's going on. What they care about is access. And it's not a journalist's job to make Linda Yaccarino look good. It's not a journalist job to, you know, play nice with Linda Yaccarino or, any other tech leader and like make them feel comfortable and make them look good and give them like,

they're not in PR, they're journalists. And so I was really surprised how quickly these journalists revealed that they don't care about that. That all they care about is like, ooh, this is really going to like hurt Kara Swisher's ability to book big guests. And I found that to be really telling, you know, Linda Yaccarino is running one of the most important tech platforms in the world. It's not any journalist's job to make her look good. It's a journalist's job to ask her questions that are going to be clarifying for us, the public, and to hold her accountable for the things that she says and the things that she does. Right.

And even if it wasn't Linda Yaccarino herself, like she's the CEO of a company that's owned by Elon Musk, who has used that platform to spew just straight up Nazi shit and, yeah, apparently target a gay man in a way that is very much rooted in home before. phobia. Like it totally makes sense. It's so weird to see like how accountability is like framed because yeah, like you said, this seems like a situation where she needs to be held accountable for what's happening at her company for what's happening in the name of her company. And yeah, like asking the most basic questions is apparently too much. I don't know. Poor Linda Yaccarino, her and her, you know, billion dollar company. So sad. They're being bullied by mean

journalists. I almost see like a little bit of like sexism here. Like I think it's, I think it's important to like not. I try really hard when I'm talking about Linda Yaccarino to make sure that I'm not trafficking in some sort of like internalized misogyny. But the way that people are talking about her, it almost swings back around. And it's like, we're not talking about your best friend. giving you a heads up that your ex might be at the party they're planning. This is somebody who is running the CEO of one of the most powerful tech companies in the world. Where is this idea coming from that she can't handle it if a former staffer is there, presenting his perspective as a former staffer?

It almost seems like insulting to her this assumption that like she needs more notice than other tech CEOs that have gone to this conference, that somebody's being added to the lineup. And that if Yuel Roth got up there and spoke his piece about what he saw at Twitter, that that's going to somehow rattle her. It almost feels like a weird kind of like a weird assumption that I just, I don't know where it's coming from. And I don't see a lot of other tech leaders getting these same kinds of like assumptions that they will fall, they will simply fall apart if they are asked to speak after somebody

who has presented an alternative perspective than their own. I thought her whole thing. She's been saying this whole time that Twitter is this place where, oh, you need to be able to listen when someone's got an opposing view. Like you shouldn't run away from it when someone's got a different opinion. But yet, here are all these people saying, oh, well, Linda Yaccarino shouldn't have to listen to somebody's opposing opinion. And if she does so, it is reasonable for her to completely fall apart and shit the bed. I have a lot of questions about it. Yeah.

A big part of feminism is being able to acknowledge when women mess up too. and women are benefiting from like, you know, classism, anti-Semitism, general sort of fascist tendencies, you know, in this case. And yeah, like Linda Yaccarino took this job knowing who Elon Musk was and knowing what this company had kind of positioned itself as at that point. So it's sort of like, I don't know. It feels like we're falling back into the whole like girl boss era where it's like, It's okay if she does bad stuff because she's doing it as a woman.

And it doesn't matter that other women are going to get brutalized by the content that is produced by this company or whatever. It's weird. It is a very weird thing to be watching. It reminds me of this meme I see often that I think about all the time. It's not exactly like, well, whatever. The meme is, I don't support all women. Some of you bitches are very dumb. And I always think about that of like, yeah, like this is, she's shot the bet out there and it really matters.

It doesn't just matter from like a business perspective. It matters for all of us. Like to put this in context, this comes just days after a new study from the European Union that said that Twitter is the number one biggest source of disinformation when compared to other social media platforms with Spain, Poland and Slovakia deemed as countries with the highest risks. The EU's Values and Transparency Commissioner, Vera, Euro. warned Elon Musk saying, you have to comply with the hard law. We'll be watching what you're doing. And what did he do in response? Well, Elon Musk cut Twitter's election integrity and disinformation team, despite pledging that he would not do that and removed the election disinformation reporting tool, even though we're like, what, a couple hundred days out of an election here

in the United States. And so this stuff really matters. Like how this platform is run really makes really matters to people. On Friday, the day that this podcast comes out, Twitter's new privacy policy goes into effect, which allows Twitter to take a lot more data from us, including our employment information, our job information, maybe read our DMs, our biometric data. And of course, use all of that data that they take from us to train their AI and a whole lot more. All of this, after Twitter's former head of security turned actual whistleblower, went before the Senate and testified that Twitter is misleading the public about the platform's

extreme and egregious security deficiencies. So all of this is to say that it really matters how Twitter is being run, not just because it's this big company, but because it really matters for global election integrity and for our own personal security. So this is not a business story. This is not a story about like, is Kara Swisher going to be able to get big and important guests on her show where will the Code Conference continue to be really big and important? It's not a story about whether or not this journalist was like nice to Linda Yacarino, our global democracy is at risk. And these people are just talking about like whether or not code is going to be able to book guests. This is because a journalist asked her about it.

Like the conversation is so deeply unsurious. And I feel like we are watching tech journalists fail us in real time and be really public and open about it. Like they don't even have the good sense to not publicly go out and say, like, oh, the most important thing is access, and because they ask Linda Yacarino hard questions, they're blobing that access. The most important thing that matters to me as a tech journalist. Like, it is so deeply unsurious and they're putting us all at risk and not even having the good sense to, like, not say that publicly voluntarily.

Yeah. I think coming from within the journalism industry in particular and like having that perspective, this is really interesting because it kind of reminds me of like, and you mentioned the election, which this doesn't directly have to do with. election. But, you know, again, Twitter is going to be a big platform for that. This reminds me of back in 2016 when Trump was elected and there was sort of this like conversation, I think, within the journalism industry and within newsrooms about like, what's the media's responsibility and, you know, what's the difference between holding people accountable

and like getting both sides or like hearing all the sides and like this seems like we're falling back into that idea of like getting all the sides. and letting everybody just speak their mind without question is more important than like actually holding people accountable and actually asking people the hard questions about like their actual policies that are going to affect people. Yeah, that's that's concerning to me too. And again, like this doesn't directly have to do with the election, but Twitter is going to be a big platform when it comes to the election. And are we going to see that sort of cycle again where people are just like, yeah, we're we're going to just hear all the sides.

not hold anybody accountable because that never ends well. Yeah, I worry that folks in media have not really learned a lot of hard truth. So we will see. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's that worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation.

The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle aged. One erection.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and, friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast.

Radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartadvertising.com. That's iHeartadvertising.com. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHeart Podcast presents Soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend Janet. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Now a redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip, just a little bit bigger hips, wider. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games. in the back of my Honda Odyssey with all the snacks and drinks.

Sidebar. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a bogo. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white collar or something here? Just a hit it. Oh, what are y'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a rap album? Oh, I would. Come on. Could you believe? I would buy it.

Cuts through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake. That sounds delicious. Oh, you're lucky. I'm not a drug addict. You're lucky I'm not an alcoholic. You are. You are. You're lucky I'm not a killer. I love this team, and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on.

Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. So we have a little update for you. Last week during our newscast, we told you that Andrew Tate's MLM scam app called The Real World, formerly called Hustlers University, was taken off of Google's Play Store for being a predatory pyramid scheme. that charged subscribers $50 a month and offered them the chance to make millions through these like very scammy sounding courses on things like copyrighting and cryptocurrency and also prompted users to share Andrew Tate's content on social media. At the time of publishing our episode, the app was still available on Apple's App Store.

Well, right after our episode went live on Friday of last week, Apple joined Google in taking Tate's app down from the app store. Thank you, Apple. Tate's people say that they are appealing both of these decisions. But for now, it is good news that Tate is being cut from this income stream that just really just takes advantage of young people. Yeah. First of all, adding on to last week's kind of discussion of this to be the third person now on this podcast to say, I don't know why copywriting is listed in there. Because I also have experience with that.

You do not make millions of dollars. Yeah. Listener Sarah said the same thing. Like, what is going on with copywriting? People don't make millions and millions of dollars from copywriting. And him promising people that they're going to make that is truly a wild claim to be making on his app. Yeah. I think generally media, if a company is telling you that, like, a media related job is going to make you a lot of money, that's probably not true.

A rule of thumb. Yeah, no, that's good to hear. I feel like this whole Antutate saga, this is one of those things where it's like this whole thing that's going out of the Ander Tate has felt very big and like very difficult to address. And it's like there's just so much, so much harm he's causing that this is like an example of like how any sort of action is good. And I think, I don't know, I think it's easy to get sort of caught up in all of the bad stuff that's coming out of this. but it is it's good to hear one good things happen because of, you know, people's advocacy and people trying to combat this stuff.

Yeah, I take my Ws where I can get them, even the small ones. And if folks are interested to hear more about Tate and the sort of ecosystem of Manosphere grifters that have popped up around him, folks like just pearly things and sneako, all of your mixed bag of misogynistic right-we. wing extremist online grifters, check out our episode of There Are No Girls on the Internet that came out this week with Justin Horowitz, an extremism researcher at Media Matters. He breaks down all of it. So if folks want to know more about Tate, what he's doing, and the impact that it has on all of us, definitely check out this week's episode. So over in Texas, Yelp, the review

website that is mostly known for, I guess, like reviewing restaurants and coffee shops. Well, Yelp is preemptively suing Texas to ensure that the site can continue to tell users that crisis pregnancy centers, also known as CPCs, listed on their site, do not provide abortions or abortion referrals. So if you're unfamiliar with a crisis pregnancy center, according to the American College of obstetricians and gynecologists, always have trouble saying that word, CPC is a term used to refer to certain facilities that represent themselves as legitimate reproductive health care clinics providing care for pregnant people, but actually aim to dissuade people from accessing certain types of reproductive care, including abortion care and even contraceptives options.

So currently, Yelp puts a label on crisis pregnancy centers that reads, quote, this is a crisis pregnancy center. Crisis pregnancy centers do not offer abortions or referrals to abortion providers. This is just like fact-based information that is just like a fact. I don't think that any CPC would object to that, that they do not offer abortions or referrals for abortion, that is just like a true fact about their services. But Yelp suspects that Texas is going to sue them to prevent them from applying this label. So they are preemptively suing Texas first.

According to CNN, in a complaint filed Wednesday in San Francisco federal court, Yelp said it is suing the Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton preemptively to head off a lawsuit. It anticipates from his office as soon as Friday that may seek to borrow Yelp from applying its label to crisis pregnancy centers. If the name Attorney General Ken Paxton of Texas sounds familiar to you, that is because he just got finished facing a very serious impeachment threat from his own party for corruption. Now, he wasn't impeached. He won that battle, but he is still facing a felony fraud case and an FBI investigation for securities fraud. So Ken Paxton has a lot going on. Like, you know, if I were Ken Paxton, I'd probably be focused on that. But this is what he's doing instead.

Yeah, that's so crazy. Like, just from hearing you explain that, they're not doing it. anything illegal. In fact, they're just, yeah, like they're just explaining what the service is, which is what you're supposed to do if you're a service and you want to get business. But, you know, it's almost like they don't want us to know that they don't have abortions and they actually do other things. Crazy. I thought false advertising was illegal, but apparently not in this case. Yeah. Okay. So what's interesting about what you just said is that back in February, Paxton went after Yelp for putting a different label on crisis pregnancy centers. Their initial label described crisis pregnancy centers as, quote, typically providing limited medical services and may not have licensed medical professionals on site, which is also true.

But Paxton objected to that back in February. And so when Yelp changed their label to read what I read before about how crisis pregnancy centers do not offer abortions or referral for abortions, Paxton himself commended that disclosure as, quote, accurate in a press release that reads, Yelp has agreed to remove its misleading label of crisis pregnancy centers and replace it with an accurate description. So just as you said, right, that like Paxton himself said, oh, well, this new label, this label is accurate. But now he is still coming after Yelp for this label that he himself in February said was accurate and was fine. So the way that crisis pregnancy centers work is that they really take advantage of like scamy SEO practices to prey on people, many of whom are in desperate situations to confuse them with inaccurate information. Crisis pregnancy centers, their whole mission is to basically waste the time of somebody who was pregnant to create an intentional delay that will delay them in getting an abortion in an attempt to trigger term restrictions that will prevent them from getting abortion care altogether.

So Yelp's lawsuit is asking the court to affirm that its labeling of crisis pregnancy centers was not misleading and that it was an exercise of constitutionally protected speech. It is also asking the court to block Texas from suing over the labels in the future. And I think, yeah, it's just another example of the ways that abortion is a tech issue and that if you are trying to talk about technology but you're not doing so in a way that does not talk about abortion care, then you're not fully talking about technology because abortion is a tech issue. You know, tech companies should really be in the business of providing accurate information about people's health. And a lot of times, we know that they don't. So in this case, when Yelp is actually trying to help people get accurate information about, you know, crisis pregnancy centers, it's really sad that states like Texas are stepping in to prevent them from doing that. Yeah.

And again, it's like, it's not like Yelp is doing anything that's illegal. I use Google Maps all the time because, like, I never know where I am. but I mean one thing that like I rely on a lot is like the descriptions of places that I'm going to matching the place that I'm actually going to and it is really frustrating when they don't you shouldn't be hiding under the guise of medical care if that's not what you're doing but yeah I hate yeah wow it's it's scary everything that's happening in Texas with this is is terrifying and again all the support to like abortion activists reproductive rights activists in Texas you guys are like, I admire the work he all are doing so much, so important. Absolutely. Like, if you've got some spare coin and you're looking for a good home for it, donate to an abortion fund because Lord knows they're doing important work and they could use it. And I think this thing in Texas, I really think that Paxton is just trying to do a stunt

to take away from his corruption investigation. I think that, like, he is newly back from almost being. impeached by his own party. And I think that he is just like looking for some big grandstanding stunt. And he already confirmed that the way that Yelp is describing CPCs is accurate. So it's like, we're visiting this now. It just seems like a stunt. And I think it just goes back to the idea that a lot of these extremists, they don't have a lot to offer their citizens other than stunts and grandstanding. And I think that's exactly what this is. Yeah. It's almost like the backlash against reproductive rights and trans people and all of this is just a time to get more boats. But, you know, it's...

So folks might be familiar with Wirecutter. The New York Times is vertical where they rate and review tech gadgets. Wirecutter had been giving WISE, the security camera system, positive reviews for six years, but all of that changed this week. Because Wirecutter announced that they were pulling their recommendations for WISE from all their sites guides. Why? Well, Because Wirecutter explains that on September 8th, the Verge reported an incident in which Wise customers were able to access live video from other users' cameras through the Wise web portal. When Wirecutter reached out to Wise for details, a representative characterized the incident as small in scope, saying they believe no more than 10 users were affected. So that's not great. Like, even if it's only 10 people, strangers being able to access your security camera and like see what you're doing, it's like pretty bad.

But here's the kicker. than one post on its user-to-user online forum, Wise communities, and communications to those that they say were affected, the company has not reached out to Wise customers, nor has it provided meaningful details about the incident. Wirecutter writes, we believe Wise is acting irresponsibly to its customers. As such, we've made the difficult but unavoidable decision to revoke our recommendation of all Wise cameras until the company implements meaningful changes to its security and privacy procedures. The concern is not that Wise had a security incident.

Just about every company or organization in the world were probably at the deal with some sort of security trip up, as we've seen with big banks, the military, Las Vegas casinos, schools, and even Chick-fil-A. The greater issue is how this company responds to a crisis. With this incident and others in the past, it is clear that Wise has failed to develop the sorts of robust procedures that adequately protect its customers the way they deserve. Damn. Yeah, that's scary. Yeah, I feel like security cameras.

Because cameras in general, that's just such a sensitive issue. It's like if you have any, like, if there's any break of that privacy, that should be notified to people that have the cameras that you sell. Exactly. So I need to make this really clear. This is very unusual, right? We talk about a lot of companies who behave in ways that are irresponsible. But this is irresponsible even by like irresponsible company standards. Wirecutter spoke to other folks.

in the privacy space, including Jen Calt Rider, program director at Mozilla's privacy not included, whose work we've talked about on the show before. All of the folks they spoke to agree that it is completely unusual and unacceptable that Wise did not reach out to their customer base proactively and never said anything about how they are planning to prevent these issues in the future. And this is not even the first time that Wise has had issues like this. In March 2022, a Bit Defender study showed that Wise took nearly three years to fully address specific. vulnerabilities that affected all three models of wise cameras. Eventually, they did alert customers and told them that that that model of security camera was no longer safe and that they should not

be using them. And if they did keep using them, they were doing so at their own risk. So like you were saying, Joey, I would pretty much never advocate for someone putting an additional camera in their home that they didn't need. But if you, when you do, like, that is a trust relationship, as you were saying that you're entering into with the company, right? You need to know that if that trust is broken, that the company is going to handle it in a way that is responsible. Like, that's the only way that having a camera in your house makes any sense at all is that the company is like acting in a way that really makes it clear that they understand that that you're putting their trust in them. As Wirecutter points out, the fundamental relationship between smart home companies

and their customers is founded on trust. No company can guarantee safety and security 100% of the time, but customers need to be confident that those who make and sell these products, especially security devices, are worthy of their trust. Wise's inability to meet these basic standards puts its customers and its devices at risk and also cast doubt on the smart home industry as a whole. So Wirecutter actually listed out some specific steps that Wise would need to take in order for them to consider, like, reconsider looking at their products in the future. it's like very basic stuff, honestly, like reaching out to all customers proactively if there is a breach and describing the issue in detail, including what steps are being taken to prevent it from happening

again. Like, to me, it sounds like very basic stuff. And I also think that it is a pretty big step for an outlet that, like, wirecutter that most folks probably know for like gadget reviews to take this kind of action. And honestly, maybe it should be more commonplace. Like, even if you're mostly a review outlet, it is still sort of service-oriented tech journalism for regular people to inform their purchasing decision-making, right? And so I think it's nice to see an outlet taking that responsibility seriously and using that as a way to advocate for a tech company just being accountable to the people who are buying their stuff. Yeah, a rare win for the New York Times, I guess, or New York Times property. Bridget, did you ever? Did you ever

watched. It was a like Disney Channel movie that I watched when I was a kid that was called like Smart Home. Yeah. Smart House. You know I watched Smart House. You said the word smart home and I was like, I think that's what now I think I'm realizing now because I've always been somebody that like even with like computer cameras I've been very like anxious about and I know most of that it, whatever. I in theory it's safe. But yeah, I think I think that's how it started. I think it was because of that movie, which this just goes to prove that Disney Channel was right apparently. Yeah, no, that's so scary, though. I've never had a security camera like that in a place that I've lived,

but I know, like, I had friends growing up that, like, had that in their houses. And that's scary. That is, that's really scary what could happen with that. Yeah. So, first of all, like, Disney Channel, Disney Channel original's from like the 2000s continued to be prophetic like it is written

Yeah Maybe that's our origin story of paranoia around certain technology I think it is I think I'm connecting the dots now I'm like that's how it started Yeah And it's funny because like

I'm not like Like for my life Having things like a Google home Or like a security camera It doesn't make sense for my life personally But I get that people's security needs might be different. Like my parents have, I actually don't know what they use, but they have cameras in every room in their house because my dad is disabled and sometimes has like bad falls.

And so it's like a way to be like, oh, well, if I'm downstairs, I want to be able to see, if my mom is downstairs, she wants to be able to be able to see what my dad is doing and vice versa, because they're older folks who live in a big house. And so I'm not, you know, if having devices that have cameras in them in your life make sense for your. lifestyle, like that, do what you got to do. As wirecutter, I think rightly points out, you should be able to do that and trust that you are going to get the information that you need to be able to be, you know, deciding how you, what role you want this technology to play in your life. And I feel like what Wise is not being a good actor to allow consumers to really do that. More after a quick

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Let's get right back into it. So we've talked a little bit before about the threats that deep fakes pose, digitally rendered images of people often depicting them in sexual situations or meant to be used for political deception. Now, new legislation is trying to combat the harm posed by deep fakes. Representative Yvette Clark, who represents parts of Brooklyn, introduced new legislation in the House that is meant to curb the harm of deep fakes, saying this bill is meant to take us into the 21st century and established a baseline so we can discern who is intending to harm us. Clark said that the Deep Fakes Accountability Act would provide prosecutors, regulators, and particularly victims with resources, like detection technology, that Clark believes they need to stand up against the threat of nefarious deep things. This bill would require all creators of deepfakes to include content credentials, which means the origins and entire history of a piece of content, including how it was captured and how it's been changed.

Under this legislation, online platforms that host generative AI content would also be required to display the origins of that content. Under this legislation, users who failed to label malicious deepfakes would face a criminal penalty, including prison time and fines. So this category would encompass deep fakes related to sexual content, criminal content, incitement of violence and foreign interference in elections. Now, I've looked into this legislation a little bit. It does seem like there is some potential concern that the scope might be a bit too narrow because it really focuses on, like, people. So like deep fakes that depict images of people. But what about when a deep fake does not depict a person? And recently faked AI-generated images of the Pentagon on fire went viral and caused a disruption where I live here in D.C.

And so I have read that there is concern that this legislation is too narrow and that it does not account for those kinds of deep fakes that do not depict a specific person. Yeah, that also it concerns me that they're being very liberal with, like, sexual content because, and like, I don't know, this might be a little bit more. extreme of a take, but I feel like if you're making AI content of somebody that's like sexual without their permission, that's bad. That is wrong. I don't think that should be allowed, like, period. Um, so I don't know. It feels sort of like concerning that they're just sort of like, you have to label this, but it can still exist. Yeah, that's another, I mean, like, I just knowing what I know about, you know, the way that platform, you know, the way that platforms, will sometimes add, like, oh, this is misinformation or like, get the realist or like,

if you ever scroll Facebook and it's like, oh, this post has been shown to be misleading. Those are great. And I, like, think that platforms should be doing that. But if I'm being honest, there is a lot of research that suggests that people are not really, like, looking at those because social media platforms move so quickly, but people are not always clicking in to be like, oh, this is, here's some context for this. And so I'm concerned that the way that the internet moves, the speed at which the internet moves, I think it's possible that deep fakes could travel in a way because people are not necessarily looking at the context or looking at the label because of the speed at which social media platforms tend to move.

And so it is concerning. Like I think that something needs to be done about the threat of deep fakes. Like I already know, I'm sure we've talked about this on the show, that deep fakes have the potential to really disrupt our democracy. and it's definitely going to be people who are traditionally marginalized who are disproportionately facing that reality. So like, you know, women, LGBTQ folks, people of color, that's just a reality. And so, like, I do think something needs to be done. And it's also kind of hard to believe that right now there is no national legislation specifically

addressing deep fakes or the deceptive uses of generative AI. Earlier this month, technology executives did have a closed door meeting with senators to discuss potential government regulation. But right now, there is no national regulation of this. And I do want to say that this legislation is being introduced by Representative Clark. And Clark is somebody that have actually been really keeping my eye on. Y'all might recall that during the TikTok hearings, we talked a lot about some of the stuff that came up from lawmakers, the question that they asked. Clark had some legitimately very good questions about whether TikTok's moderation policies were biased toward black and brown creators, and whether the platform was suppressing abortion content.

I remember, like, she was someone who was like, oh, she's, like, asking very substantive questions that clearly reflect her constituents in a way that I thought was, like, very refreshing. She was also working to regulate AI before doing so was cool. Way back when in 2019, she worked with Senators Wyden and Corey Booker to introduce the Algorithmic Accountability Act, a bill that would require companies to conduct impact and privacy assessments when they use automated decision-making tools. And so we will definitely keep an eye on this legislation, how it moves, what happens with it.

But, yeah, it's sort of hard to believe that there is no national legislation addressing the threat of deepfakes or deceptive uses of AI. And, yeah, we'll keep an eye on it. Yeah, it definitely feels like there should be. I feel like that should be covered under, like, libel or something, too, where it's like, and again, I'm not a lawyer. I haven't looked at the concrete laws that that exist around this, but it feels like an image and an image is like impact on somebody's

reputation. That should have the same impact as like something that's spoken about somebody. But yeah, like, it's good to hear that somebody is doing something about this and somebody who, it seems like, has a history of actually addressing tech issues and not just, you know, selling out to the sort of Heritage Foundation version of what the internet should be. That's a refreshing take for once. And again, like you said, this is a very narrow legislation, but it's a step in the right direction. And I guess that's good to hear.

Yeah, and to your point that you were making earlier, I think this is a situation that really shows that sometimes our technology progresses quicker than our laws can keep up. And so I'm interested to see if we get to a place where our laws actually actually can be somewhat more aligned with the realities of the technology that we're that's facing us today. Okay, so important question for you, Joey. Did you go, first of all, are you a Swifty? Are you into Taylor Swift? I love Taylor Swift. Oh my God. Okay. We've never talked about this. So I wasn't sure. I did go to the ERAs tour. I went to the Chicago,

one of the Chicago shows. She played the lakes. And I wish you would for those of you that are wondering, the two of you that are wondering. But it was a great show. That being said, there's a lot of stress leading up to it. So I'm sure you're going to get into some of that. Yes. So I think I, so I'm not a Swifty. I'm an aspiring Swifty.

Like I, if I'm being honest, I probably, other than the big hits that everybody knows, I probably could not name a Taylor Swift song. But I want to be a Swifty. If there are folks, like someone sent me a play. Does someone tell me what to get into you? I feel like jealousy. I wish I was, I want to be part of the community. I'll send you a playlist.

I got you. Yeah, I respect Taylor Swift a lot and I, I want in. I just don't know where to start. So as you were saying, like, if anybody who tried to go to Taylor Swift's eras toward the summer or Beyonce's Renaissance tour this summer, I didn't make it to either of them, so like, boo me. I didn't make it to Renaissance. I really didn't want to go to Renaissance.

I could not get a ticket. So at least I got one. Glass half. I got one. I mean, my brother went with his wife. And there was a time where I was like, well, certainly, like, he's going to ask me to go. He's going to be like, Bridget, you should go to Beyonce, take my ticket. And I was like waiting by the phone and the call never came.

So, yeah, I did. It was heartbreaking. But I'll get him next time. So if anybody went to either of those big summer concert tours, Taylor, Swift, Beyonce, y'all probably know already that the ticket buying process was plagued with predatory online ticket sale platforms and resellers. It is so hard and expensive to get tickets that they actually end up selling out really quickly and then wind up on ticket reseller sites for thousands of dollars. And now the IRS is getting involved because they are putting more scrutiny on ticket resellers.

So I actually did not know this. How it has worked before is that ticket website, had to send 1099 forms to anybody who made more than $20,000 through 200 or more ticket sale transactions in a year. And now that law has been updated as part of the American Rescue Plan Act, which lowers that amount from $20,000 to $600 regardless of the number of sales. And sellers will only need to pay taxes on the profit that they make. This is all part of Biden's plan to pump the brakes on the out-of-control antics of ticket resellers to crack down on predatory practices like, tacking on hidden fees at checkout, which everybody hates. It's like, it's like you'll buy tickets.

And then it's like, okay, the tickets are $50. And a $20, fuck you fee. And now it's $70. And then, oh, you use the internet. Oh, now it's $100. Like, it completely adds up. It's, it's so predatory. Yeah.

The Swifties are powerful. I will say, I feel like the past couple months have shown, the Swifties are powerful. That is 100% correct. You know, when you look at the average prices of some of these big concerts this summer, it is clear that, like, something is wrong. The Wall Street Journal reports that the average price for Swift's Ares tour was $1,095. And for Beyonce's Renaissance tour, $400. Now, Stubhub did say that, like, this might be partly due to COVID because the live event industry is, like, still bouncing back after, like, COVID shutdowns. I can't confirm or deny the truth behind that.

That's what they're saying. And as you were saying, Joey, we really do have Swifties, and they're organizing and advocating to thank for this. After the Airs Tour, Swifties reported not being able to buy Taylor Swift tickets, and then the site shut down. When it came back up, tickets were sold out, but they were being listed for exorbitant prices by ticket resellers. In a federal hearing, Ticketmaster blamed bots for this, and then later Ticketmaster shut down ticket sales in France for the Ares Tour. And so I guess Swifties were loud. They advocated that this was not okay. They wanted change.

They wanted to reform. And I guess the moral of the story here is don't mess with the Swifties because they have the Biden administration's ear. When the Swifties are upset about something, the Biden administration takes action. Do not mess with the Swifties. Yeah. Okay. Going back to the COVID point real quick. Please.

That makes me real bad because, okay, it's 2023 now. this tour has been 2023. The COVID pandemic is not over. It hasn't been over. That being said, concerts have been open since 2021. Like I remember I had tickets to go to the Green Day Fall Out Boy Weasor show in 2021. And I decided not to go because I was worried about COVID. But I remember that concert still happened. So concerts have been happening for two years now and have been happening at these big stadiums with these big artists. So I think we're past the point where we can use COVID as the excuse for that. But yeah, though, I remember living through all of this trying to get my time.

So I was on all day, like literally spent 24 hours straight, like trying to get tickets, could not. ended up like somebody I knew was able to get tickets so I was able to go through that but it was insane and um I got to say even uh most recently like I tried getting uh boy genius tickets in in New York and it wasn't as bad as Taylor Swift but they also sold out right away was also a whole weird thing with Ticketmaster um disclaimer I am going to the show on Monday I was able to I was able to get tickets last minute. But the day of when the tickets went on sale, like it was a nightmare. And yeah, they're a big band too, but they're not as big as Taylor Swift or Beyonce.

So it is just, it is messed up right now. I'm glad something is being done. The Swifties are very powerful. The Beehive is very powerful. Yeah. So I actually have a theory that kind of speaks to your point. It's not tech related. This is just I have no evidence.

I have a theory that I guess it's a little tech related. My theory is that the rise of social media has completely changed what it means to go to a concert. And it used to be that if you liked a musician or a live act, you went to see their concert because it's like, I love whoever. I got to go see them. I think that the rise of social media has turned concerts from just an experience to like a luxury event. where people want to go, not even necessarily because they, like, love the band, but because it's like

they want to flex for the gram that they were there. And so I think that, like, before you were just competing with people who were, like, fans of whoever, now you're competing with everybody because going to a concert is just like, you know, a thing to do.

And that is making it this, like, luxury experience with these, frankly, like, absurd price tags. Like the price of concerts has like I don't Don't ask me to back us up with facts because I cannot. I've not looked into it. I'm just like submitting this this theory off the dome. But like the price in my estimation the price has gone up.

And I think it's because people are seeing it as a luxury item and a luxury experience. And whereas it used to be like you just wanted to go see the show. Now it's like, oh, well, do you want the backstage or like this experience or like that experience? and like live events places know they can just tack on a bunch of fees because people are already seeing this as like a luxury experience. You know, does that make sense? I don't know. No, I totally agree. And again, I don't have any evidence to back it up.

Just my own experience. But yeah, like I think my comparison here is Boy Genius, which is still a very popular band. And especially like now, sort of blown up with their new album. They are nowhere near like Taylor Swift. And the fact that I had like just as hard as time, just as a. is hard of a time getting tickets for them as I did with Taylor Swift. Like, it's gotten ridiculous. I love me. I know we've talked about this. I love music. I'm a big music person. But that being stuff, like I feel like I don't go to a lot of concerts now because it's just so hard to get tickets.

And I think Cozier was like the most recent ones. I remember he was like, he put out his tickets for his tour and I was like, I'm not even going to bother. Like, there's no way I'm getting those tickets. Like, I might as well just sleep in that day when they go. on sale at 8 a.m. Which is early for me. But yeah, it's, it's, concert tickets have gotten ridiculous and it is not fun.

Hopefully the Swifties can help us out with this and organize. I know they are a very powerful unified force, as is Taylor Swift. I don't know if you all saw, but Taylor Swift on Tuesday, she posted a short Instagram post to her 272 million

followers asking them to get registered to vote. And according to, to vote.org, the nonpartisan voter registration nonprofit, they got more than 35,000 new registrations. And yeah, so she, they had a 23% jump over voter registration day last year because of the power of Taylor Swift. So when Taylor Swift speaks, people listen. When the Swifties speaks, Joe Biden listens. We got to think of like what else we want that Swifties to advocate for and be like, we need universal health care. Swifties get on it.

I do think that fandom and is the rallying sort of force of the future, apparently. A contemporary political situation that I find fascinating is that whole thing with all the K-pop stands were like managed to mess up the Trump speech that was supposed to happen in 2020. I think organizing young people through the power of fandom, being obsessed with a particular or celebrity. That is so powerful. And I'm so glad that that energy is being used for

good right now. And yeah, we'll see what happens in the future, I guess. We love it. Joey, thank you for being here. A pleasure as always. Of course. And as always, listeners, thanks for hanging out with us. If you want more ad-free content, check out our Patreon at patreon.com

slash tangoity, and we will see you real soon. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoity.com Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoity.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.

It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts, for more podcasts,

from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

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