There Are No Girls on the Internet - The Capitol insurrection was fueled by the anti-abortion movement

Episode Date: January 6, 2022

Just days after the deadly riot at the Capitol last year, Bridget joined the podcast Stuff Mom Never Told You to explore the huge overlap between the insurrection and the anti-abortion movement.CHECK OUT OUR NEW SHOP: TANGOTI.COM/STORE  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Today marks the one-year anniversary of the insurrection at the Capitol. I live in Washington, D.C., and I don't think I'll ever forget, going from watching historic returns in the Georgia Senate runoff election

and watching votes be certified for President Joe Biden on television to watching violent insurrectionists storm the Capitol in real time from my apartment, which is only about a mile away. Now, January 6th at the Capitol was not the first time that extremists have resorted to violence to try to get what they want. In fact, many of the tactics and major players that led to the deadly insurrection at the Capitol were the very same that abortion providers and advocates have been warning about for decades. A few days after the insurrection last year, I joined my friend Samantha and Annie at the podcast Stuff Mom Never Told You to break down the huge

overlap between the anti-abortion movement and the insurrection at the Capitol and what it means for all of us. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha And welcome to Steph Mom Never Told You, a production of I Heart Radio. Today we are once again joined by our good friend and colleague, Bridget Todd. Hello, Bridget. Hello, I'm so excited to be here again. Yay! Yes, always a pleasure to have you.

And wow. I think we recorded in early December 2020 was the last time. We met up in this virtual podcasting space. And a lot has happened since then. A lot has happened. And doesn't that feel like it was years ago? It really does. It feels so foreign.

I feel like I have slept many a nights. There's been a mini a moon set of things if it happened. I feel like I've already aged 10 years. Yeah. So there's a lot. Like, I feel like it was a lot. Yes. And so we wanted to ask you because the topic you're bringing us today is related,

both to past topics you've talked about, but also to what happened in the Capitol, the violence at the Capitol. And since you're in Washington, D.C., we wanted to ask you about it. What was that like? Thank you for asking. It was very odd, as you might imagine. So when I woke up on January 6th, before I went to bed, I had been watching the numbers come in from the Georgia Senate runoffs,

and I was feeling very good. I put on my lucky shirt that has a Shirley Chisholm look quote on it. And so, like, you know, I woke up beaming. I remember waking up like, good morning. I was so excited. And I think it was because I had not felt that kind of hope in a long time. So I was feeling very, very hopeful that morning. And it was like a power and a hope that I had not felt in, I guess, the last four years.

And how quickly that feeling of hopefulness turned into just powerlessness as I watched, you know, this insurrection happened. And I think that, like, I was watching it happened on television kind of in real time. And so it really got so dark and so serious so quickly. It went from, of course, there's just going to be these Trump supporters, you know, standing outside the Capitol protesting, sure, to like, oh, my God, this is bad. You know, we got, you know those things that you get on your phone when there's an Amber Alert, those like, eh, and things on your phone? We, everybody who was in my household got one of those at the same time from the mayor of D.C.

saying that there was a state of emergency order and there was a curfew. We couldn't go out. It happened very quickly. And yeah, when I watched it, I'm always making this point, but D.C. is my home. I was raised here. This is my community. I've lived here. This is like what I consider home. And I think that because it's where so much of our federal government stuff happens and where the capital is, people forget that just regular folks live here. Like, this is where people live. And so I was really heartbroken by thinking about this as not just an attack on our democracy and on our capital, but also on my community. You know, D.C. is large. black and brown. And so when these people were storming the Capitol, I saw videos where after they were storming the Capitol, where did they go? Oh, to our restaurants, to our hotels, to our institutions. And just the idea that these people would be kind of unleashed on my community really hurt. And so, you know, I always just got to like make sure that that point gets

included that it's not just lawmakers who live in D.C. It's real people, some of which have no connection to the government. And so it was not just an attack on our democracy and our capital. It was also attack on these people, our home, you know? Yeah, I remember because we were all watching closely and knowing that you were one of my connections in D.C., definitely, like, following you on Twitter, you actually mentioned, like, hey, thanks a lot for bringing in the corona. Like, not wearing a mask and infecting our city and we were trying to control it, and you just made this bigger disaster because they were not only in your community, at your restaurants, at your hotels, at your places of service as if this was a free-for-all,

as if nothing were happening. And, of course, no one was arrested. So, therefore, they were just out and about doing their thing. I just saw a report saying, like, 30-something Capitol Police officers tested positive for Corona just recently. But, yeah, I saw you tweeting that. I was like, oh, my God, she's so right. I didn't even think of that part because I'm just looking at the violence.

But holy crap, it's a pandemic, y'all. It's a pandemic. And it's like, we just don't need this. Anecdotally, I think that residents of D.C. have been pretty compliant when it comes to socially distancing and masking and all that kind of stuff. But just we have enough stuff going on as a city, you know, on top of the pandemic and everything else. This is just like one more big thing that we don't need. And I think it's also really hard the fact that D.C. is not really a state.

I think that people just forget. Like people don't understand that we don't have the same kind of protections or support that states have because we're not a state. And so, you know, when the mayor was trying to get the National Guard to come in, that was delayed. because she's a mayor. She doesn't have that authority, and so she had to get special permission. You know, I think it really illustrated to me how important it is that D.C. becomes a state at some point

because it just doesn't work. And, yeah, every other place right now is being ravaged by the pandemic, as is D.C. And, yeah, this doesn't help. We didn't need this. We're already having a tough time. Right. The realities of when people decided to do stupid things.

Exactly. Just saying. Yeah. And so glad you're okay. Yeah. And in the wake of all this, there's, of course, been a lot of looking into what happened and what led up to it and the people that were there. And I just remember so clearly, you've come on here and spoken a lot about disinformation and misinformation and misinformation. And you said, like, people forget that these online things have real world consequences.

And this was, like, one of the most, I couldn't think of a better example. And we were also been talking about women and QAnon and this very specific kind of like fear around children. And one of the things you wanted to talk about today is the anti-abortion movement and how that was a part of this whole thing of what happened at the Capitol, right? Absolutely. I'm grateful that folks like yourself are continuing to pull apart all the different aspects of how we got here, whether it's QAnon, targeting women who are. concerned about children. And so I think that the connection between the violence that we saw at the Capitol and the anti-abortion movement is just one more of those kind of nuggets that I think we should not ignore because there are so many different aspects that got us to January 6th at the Capitol. And I think that we should be talking about all of them. And I think some of them are easier to go

sort of overlooked or erased. And I think the connections to the anti-abortion movement is one of them. And so I really have to start by shouting out a couple people. There is a great piece by Lauren Rankin, in Refinery 29 called How Anti-Abortion Terrorism fueled the MAGA attack on the Capitol. Really great piece, cannot recommend it enough. And then another investigation by Carter Sherman at Vice called Anti-abortion activists were all over the Capitol riots. So a lot of the information that I have found

have come from those two pieces. And I also just have to shout out my friend Renee Bracey Sherman of the organization we testify. We testify as an organization that tries to increase representation for people without abortions. And so they were doing a lot of that work of saying, oh, hey, some of the people who were at the Capitol, they are very known to, you know, abortion providers and abortion activists.

And so I really just have to shout out the people who are doing the work to make sure that that conversation sort of we get to have it and that we don't let stigma or whatever keep us from having this conversation that can really help us understand how we got to the insurrection on the six. And then, yeah, also just the fact that last week was the 48th anniversary of Roe versus Wade, you know, the landmark Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion in the U.S. And so, On that day, I really was sitting with the fact that the same kind of tactics that abortion advocates have been warning about and screaming about and, you know, pointing to for the longest time, those are the same tactics that got us to January 6th with these people all storming the Capitol. I think that they're very, very similar and they have a lot of overlap. Can you break down the disinformation that led up to this one, but also some of that overlap?

because this isn't like a new occurrence, violence within anti-abortion movements. Absolutely. It is not a new occurrence. So just like the insurrection was kind of fueled by what they're now calling the big lie that Trump won the election and that it was being stolen from him, the anti-abortion movement has similarly trafficked in just straight lies about abortion, about people who have them, about abortion providers. And I think it really illustrates what happens when those lies, go more or less unchallenged. And so, you know, when putting together my information for this

episode, I was like, oh, yeah, some abortion, disinformation and misinformation and inaccuracies are so common that you don't even really think about it anymore. And actually just last week, the University of California, Berkeley School of Public Health, put out a study that found that four of the five most presented web pages in response to a search for abortion pill on Google were less than 50% accurate, right? And so just the idea that on our biggest search engine, when you Google for information about abortion, it is likely that information is a lie, is not true, it is misleading, right?

And so I think that a big thing to point out here is what happens when fabrications are just tolerated? That's just like the state of play when it comes to misinformation. And I think also when you look at, you know, the lead up to the 2020 election, we saw so much inaccurate information being flooded on social media

about Biden and Harris and their positions on abortion. And the thing that's like really, sad but also shows how savvy these disinformers can be is that disinformers know that there is a lack of good news and media sources that are in Spanish. And so they then fill that gap with inaccurate information that is in Spanish. And so you saw the Latinx community being really targeted and inundated by inaccurate, distorted information about abortion meant to impact the outcome of the 2020 election. And so another point is that these often are happening in what's app groups that are private.

So like unlike Facebook where you can kind of get a sense of like what's happening or Twitter where it's happening mostly in public, it's a closed platform to have, you know, your private WhatsApp group with your aunts and uncles and cousins, right? And so we saw lots of really horrific anti-abortion messaging targeting the Latinx community and Spanish-speaking communities on these platforms. And so, yeah, I think that much like with the insurrection, when you have just an accepted baseline of inaccurate information about people who have abortions, about abortion providers, about underrepresented or marginalized communities, it can actually translate to real-world violence,

real-world danger, real-world threats. This is not something that is just happening online. Researchers have been very clear about that. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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What's up fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball.

Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, one of the things that I just read and we just know that happened in Kentucky is they pass the born alive abortion ban, which is nothing more than a political statement trying to do some fearmongering, saying this is what's happening, this is what the Democrats are doing. You see they're killing the babies after they're born, which is absolutely false. But then we have a narrative where they actually put it into law. So it seems like it's real.

Because like here's an amendment that's added to state law. We have to address it as making it illegal because it's happening so much, which is a part of that misinformation that is being thrown out there. But it's so scary, which is also why this back and forth about this unity and letting people go because, you know, they didn't know what they were doing. Trump told them to do it, all this. It's this level of giving some kind of meat to this rumor, which is completely unfounded. But because it's a political thing.

move. It's so scary to see because once again, here we go with this misinformation, not just being a rumor, not just being an outright lie, which obviously people are believing anyway. How do you see with all of that, with that type of strategy, with that type of fearmongery, that's actually a part of our government structure, how do you see that bleeding into things like these riots? Oh my gosh, it's so incredibly frustrating. Like what you just described, I have worked in the feminist movement and, you know, spaces like that for most of my adult life. And it's not new, but it is, it sure is frustrating. You know, when we spend actual resources and time and energy on things that are not true, things that are just like fabrications.

And I understand the sentiment. You know, a good example is when Project Veritas put out those videos purporting to show Planned Parenthood staffers talking about selling body parts and this and that. That was a fabrication, but yet we still had to spend time and resources combating something that was a lie. And I think that you're exactly right that, yes, it's annoying that like taxpayer money and resources get spent on, making laws or legislation about things that just aren't happening. But even more than that, it's like it takes up so much oxygen in the room.

Like, what meaningful policies could we be discussing or getting past? what kind of progress are we not able to get to because we were too busy spitting in a circle about something that was a lie. So I think that as much as what you just described is horrible, it's also just, it's such a waste because it just takes up so much energy. People have to spend their time combating against things

that are just lies. And I think that we really have to get to a place in this country where I'm not going to say it started with Trump, but he certainly didn't help. I feel we've gotten to a place where people don't understand that there's lies, and there's true. And you can have your opinion.

There are things where you're like, oh, well, I'm not so sure. Of course. But at the end of the day, some things are just lies. We have a lot facing us as a country. We don't have time or resources to spend on things that are just lies.

We've got to get back to a place where we can all agree. Some things are just not true and not worth taking the oxygen out of the room to combat them. You know what I mean? Right. So with that, because of stuff like that,

it adds another additional need of protection for women specifically, but even men, and of course, we can go into the conversation about how anti-abortion movement is actually a misogynistic movement in order to control women's bodies. That's the whole conversation we've had before. Probably need to have all the times. But when we look at things like this riot, when we look at the people who are actually involved with it, and like you said, they were able to pinpoint, hey, that dude is known for coming to threaten women. That dude is known for harassing women trying to get to an abortion clinic just to have a conversation or even supporting Planned Parenthood.

How do things like legislation like this feed into movements like this that causes this like violent rhetoric and almost a mob lynching mentality? Yeah, it's a great question. I think it legitimizes them. I think when we treat movements that are not above threatening violent tactics, agitation, things like that, of course, I'm a protester. You know, I've been protesting since I've been a child. So I completely a thousand percent support anyone. free speech and ability to assemble and protest. Even if it's for something I don't agree with, that is a protected thing. And I find it to be quite sacred. However, harassing people trying to get to a clinic so that they can't get into the door, that's different, right?

Threatening violence, that's different. And so I think that when lawmakers, public policy officials, folks like that, when they create policy that says, oh, what you're saying, that's okay. Like, okay, we'll put out a law that says this thing, that is not happening, it's against the law now. It's like, I feel like it just legitimizes and emboldens people that they can use these

kinds of tactics to get what they want, right? And that's to go back to the insurrection for a moment. I think that's one of the things that's been so frustrating in the aftermath of this conversation, people saying things like, well, you know, if we vote to impeach Trump, that's just going to make them more angry. And it's like, we can't have this. It's like, we can't live in a country where we are afraid to do what's needed to be done because people think that it's okay to respond with violence when they don't get their

way. It's like we can't have that. A country can't be built on that. Right. Yeah. And going back to this anti-abortion movement and its relation to the insurrection, it's something we've been talking about a lot lately and it's been on my mind a lot lately is how kind of new it is.

Like in a lot of ways it's old, but like the strength with the Republican Party with conservativeism and women or people just voting on abortion. And then how emotional an issue that is for people. And then, like you said, all of this, like these false facts and disinformation and misinformation and misinformation and people who were watching this and who were listening to Trump and watching this like, well, I guess like we didn't know it was going to be a riot then, but this thing he was holding. And they were saying like, no, this is the.

anti-abortion movement is going to be involved in it. Yes. And it turns out, yes. Can you talk about that some? Yes, that's exactly right. So here's what Aaron Mattson, the executive director of reproaction, which they track anti-abortion activists. Here's what she said.

She says, anti-abortion agitators have been calling and supporting the president, I guess, the then-president. The president's called a storm Washington for some time. I know and I am confident that as time goes on, And more and more of these photos were analyzed that we'll see more overlap between the anti-abortion movement and the white supremacists who tried to overthrow the United States of America.

And she was completely right. A number of very prominent anti-abortion voices were present at the Capitol on June 6. And this is not a coincidence. There has been this long-standing crossover between the two movements, the anti-abortion movement, and white supremacist terror movements. Like, that is not a new thing.

It's, as you all have done such a great job of talking about, there's so much to untangle when it comes to, you know, white supremacist movements, anti-abortion movements, anti-women movements. They're all kind of in the same f***ed-up mixed bag, I guess you would say. And Vice had a really great rundown of all of the different prominent anti-abortion voices who were at the Capitol that day. Abby Johnson, she's one of the nation's highest profile anti-abortion activists. And she was in D.C.

She tweeted an image of herself at the Trump rally that preceded the invasion of the Capitol. And she wrote, front row, the most pro-life president of our country. country. John Brokhoft, who is a convicted abortion clinic bomber, live-streamed himself at the Capitol on January 6th, as he put it, quote, fighting for our beloved President Donald J. Trump. Taylor Hanson, who you might know, he got very popular by putting these murals up all over the country that said Baby Lives Matter. He was there. And also Derek Evans, a member of the West Virginia House of Delicates, live streamed a video of himself in a helmet, urging rioters to break into the building. And two years earlier, a court forbid Evans from having any contact with a woman who has,

helped escort patients at West Virginia's lone abortion clinic after she accused him of regularly standing outside and harassing her. So these are people who have documented histories of, A, either being very prominent anti-abortion voices, or B, I guess, showing themselves to not be above threats and violence to push their extreme anti-abortion agenda. So it's not a coincidence that these folks also felt that that kind of extremism was an appropriate response to be used in the capital, you know? Right. And, you know, as you're talking about specifically Evans,

and, of course, he actually resigned because of people actually be like, hey, oh, this is not good. Let's not have him represent us, which is nice to see, I guess. But he being a violent person who came yelling after and harassed to the point that women were scared, that was one of the other conversations they were having with the anti-abortion was many of the people are like, hey, that dude, he has so much domestic violence. If you look at his rap sheet, that dude is known as being violent towards women. Like all of these things that had shown obvious, oh, oh, these are the dudes who end up being shooters.

Like that's kind of that mass shooter conversation. Like these are the same people who are going after people going to harass and try to assassinate candidates. And we also saw many who were obviously like the proud boys who were very racist. And we knew they were racist. And we knew they were white supremacist. And they're proud to be white supremacist. Like you see all of these people like, oh, those are the violent who are racist and sexes. How do you think that this type of disinformation led to them being the ones that led the riots?

I mean, it's a great question. I'm not at all surprised. You know, we know that disinformation largely impacts underrepresented people. So it largely is fueled by these horrible distortions about who we are, whether it's women, black folks, other communities of color. Disinformation is fueled by racist, sexist, like the worst racist, sexist, imagining of who we are, right? That's complete caricatures.

And so it is not surprising to me that these people would be fueled by this kind of hateful content and really truly believe it. And I think, you know, to your point, the fact of the matter is I'm happy that Evans resigned that I'm to the point where whenever there's some sort of like accountability or consequence, I'm like, oh, wow, look at that. Someone faced a consequence. They still have those. But these are people who have scary backgrounds, right?

People who have shown themselves to not be above using violence to get what they want. And you're exactly right that because we don't take violence against women very seriously, most times when there's a mass shooter or some sort of mass scale violence, behind that there is a trail of people who tried to sound the alarm, usually women. I think it was on Christmas Eve that guy who he set off a bomb in, I want to say Tennessee. Yeah, Nashville. Nashville, thank you. Come to find out his girl.

friend previously was like, I think he's making a bomb, right? Like, pretty clearly, you know, and it's like, I wish we could get to a place where violence against women was disqualifying, that like people just didn't let it slide because it so often is an indicator that something else bad is going to happen. And I just wish that we lived in a world where these kinds of warnings were taken seriously instead of being ignored. Right, right. When we talk about disinformation happening and we see it being targeted towards women,

And specifically, I was kind of shocked to see how many women really, really dug into Q and on. And the whole, like, I have to protect my babies. I have to protect my babies. But when it comes down to the violence, more often than not, it's the men. And again, of course, we've had this conversation, again, how misogyny plays a bigger part of anti-abortion movements than we know. How do we see that men end up taking these kind of initiatives and owning them, I guess, is the word? and then taking it into such a route that it becomes a volatile, bigger movement

than what is online. So what I'm saying is like, we see a lot of Q&MISinformation and we found out that Instagram was one of the biggest of connections for women and using like influencers to talk to these women who feel like they need to do all of these things. But when it comes down to like parlor

and when it comes down to Reddit and Fortune, it's the men and who initiate these like kind of responses of we have to do something, let's get armed. And we see that misinformation being led into anti-abortion movements, into the only person who can save our country is former President Trump. How do we see this information being played out

where it becomes such a bigger conspiracy theory that it does lead to violence? Wow, that's a long-winded question, I'm sorry. I mean, it's a big question. I think that we know that if you hear something enough times that people eventually believe it. And so the more times that you hear something, the more times that you hear a false claim go completely unchecked,

people are likely to believe it. I hope that this is understood in the spirit with which I mean it. People who are out to disoform, out to cause chaos and confusion, they're very smart and they're very savvy and they're very good at it. And I think that the dynamic that you just described where there's sort of a softer version of it for women to get them involved. And then a lot of the violence is led by men, I think that is a really smart, savvy way to structure a movement. And somebody once told me, whatever the movement is, there's never any kind of movement

without women, right? And so I do think that we have to have some tough conversations about the role that women played, because one of the first people to die in the intersection was Ashley Babbitt, a woman who had been completely, completely just like consumed by Cuban-on conspiracy theories. And so I think that you see. women sort of being indoctrinated to be sort of like the foot soldiers of this movement, where men are largely the ones who are pushing for violence, like your boogaloo boys and things of that nature,

that serves a very important function because I think that if women are feeling like, well, I need to support this because it's going to keep me feeling safe. It's going to keep my position in society intact. It's a very smart way to have these kinds of conditions. conspiracy theories be gendered in the way that they are. Because I think it does ensure that, you know, if you're a woman who maybe isn't so into the whole politics thing, but you know you don't like the idea of children being targeted so you get wrapped up in QAnon, I think that the idea that the men storming the Capitol are going to create safety for you and your children, I can understand

why that's a seductive message. You know, look at the way that Trump message to white suburban women all throughout the election saying things like, oh, if you vote for Biden, quote, Antipa is going to be at your front door, you know, you're going to have riots and you're in your streets, you know, your kids aren't safe. I think that he messaged that way because I think it's effective. Everybody wants to be safe. And I think it's a really smart way to ensure that everybody is bought in, even if you're not like a violent person and you're not going to be the one breaking windows and trying to like

hunt down members of Congress with zip ties, you might be. be supportive of it if you feel that like that's what the men have to do, quote unquote, to restore order and keep you and your family safe. It's very savvy and part of me kind of is not surprised that it works on so many women. Right, right. It was interesting to see also like the mothers with their sons. We had at least two examples of those. And I was like, hmm, which I know there's been articles about that as well,

including the fact that one of the young men who actually is from Georgia, Blue Ridge, near my hometown, ha ha, ha, blamed his mother. in the testimony. He actually blamed his mother. What an ass. I mean, this poor woman, and she brought him, and I mean, I don't know this. She was with them. Oh, she was with them.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, but I'm saying like, I mean, that really does tell you all you need to know, right? That, you know, if you get caught storming the Capitol that like, oh, my mom didn't raise me right, that that would be your first excuse. Right. Honestly, this mom should be like, wow, I really didn't do such a hot job. I have to wonder what her response was,

because all I read was his testimony in which he was like, yeah, my mom told me to do this. My mom told me to pick those up. My mom did this. And it was quite funny because I was like, dude, you come in here trying to be big masculine. I'm going to kidnap these people and then be like, my mama did it. Right.

Throw on your own mother under the bus. It is funny that you say this because I have noticed a lot of these people are being released to their parents or in the care of like family members and things of that nature. Your point is such a good one where it's like, what happened to like, oh, we're storming the Capitol and we're, you know, big and bad and blah, blah, blah. And now when you get caught, you're like, oh, boy, I got to release me to my mommy. I was like, which is it? If you're going to be an insurrectionist at least like do it with your chest. Right.

Well, and just coming back to, because I think this is just a simple question, I do and I don't understand this. How did the anti-abortion movement become the center of this riot almost? I think that there's so much overlap between the two that I think that I think. I think a lot of these people saw Donald Trump as the person who was going to, in their eyes, restore the rights of children and the unborn, right? And so it's not even the question of, like, how did it become? I think it was always there. I think so many of the people at the forefront of the insurrection also did have this history

with the anti-abortion movement. I think it's like the same way that you cannot unpack their white supremacist leanings, their anti-women leanings, their anti-immigrant leanings. I think it's all one big ball of yarn that led us here. And the fact of the matter is you even saw anti-abortion groups spreading this complete lie that, quote, Antifa was responsible, even though we know that's not true. Even though we know many of these people live-streamed their crimes,

you know, Kristen Hawkins, who is the head of students for Life of America, which is the nation's biggest anti-abortion student group, she blamed Antifa members and other rioters for storming the Capitol. And so you already have the mainstream anti-abortion movement circling the wagons to protect the violent actions of these people, some of whom are probably doing this in support of their anti-abortion ideology. Yeah, it's so frustrating. I hate that when you're like, but it's this video here, they can still be like, no, no.

So we did see just so much racism and sexism on display at this riot, and there were a lot of conversations afterwards, rightfully so, comparing. the police and public reaction to Black Lives Matter protest versus this riot. And then also you have in this handy outline you gave us the history between abortion clinic violence and how that kind of overlaps with what happened. Absolutely. So one of the things I think is really interesting about what some of these abortion activists and advocates are saying is that the same way that many of us, myself included, were disgusted watching

the police take selfies with the rioters and shake their hands and just generally seem very buddy-buddy with the rioters. That is very similar to what abortion advocates and clinic workers have reported when they try to engage the police to report violence or threats happening at their clinics. And so there's a little piece from refinery 29. She says in August 1979, a Fort Wayne Indiana abortion clinic received a bomb threat. The city refused to dispatch either police or fire officials, forcing clinic staff to search for the bomb themselves. Nearly 40 years later, Becca Ballinger, a clinic escort in New York City, called in a complaint about protesters violating the 15-foot buffer zone at the clinic. When he arrived, she told her Friday, 29. She watched the responding officer approach the violator, shake his hand, and give him a hug.

He then turned to the group of clinic escorts and said, What are you doing to restrict their First Amendment rights today? And I think that, one, it enraged me. It was like, find this guy! But I do think it shows the level to which the police can sort of not always be counted on to be, you know, restoring public order. The same way that we saw police be buddy-buddy with the rioters at the Capitol, abortion rights activists have said, like, this is not surprising.

This is exactly how it is when we have called to report threats or violence at clinics. And the fact of the matter is the Associated Press found that law enforcement agencies nationwide have said that at least 31 officers in 12 states are being scrutinized by their supervisors for their behavior at the Capitol, right? And so we know that the same way that we definitely have a problem with needing to root out people that have white supremacist ties who are serving in police forces, it is not a stretch to imagine that that is also a problem when it comes to anti-abortion ideology, that police officers, they might feel sympathetic to people who would be threatening violence at a clinic, right? And so these abortion advocates have been saying, yes, we have been ringing the alarm about the fact that the police have seemed to be buddy, buddy with agitators at our clinics, for years. Again, it's just one of those things. It's a tough conversation to have, but we do need to talk about the ways that some of these darker forces have infiltrated our police,

the people who are meant to be restoring order, you know. And so I do think we have to have these kinds of tough conversations that put these things at the forefront. Yeah, and there's such a, like we've been talking about with this like ball of yarn or these Venn diagrams and all this overlap, because if you do look at the history of abortion clinics, like this is, this violence and threatening of violence has been there for a long time, like since the beginning, right? Yeah, I mean, anybody who has worked in the abortion or reproductive rights space can tell you this is not a new problem.

And I just think we really have to grapple with the fact that so many people who work in these spaces have been warning that the unchecked spread of distortions and lies on social media about abortion and about clinics and about abortion providers will lead to real, world violence. And so I just think it's important to note how much overlap there was with the violence at the Capitol and the kind of violence that these abortion advocates have been warning of for years. Yeah. It's so much, it's so much to untangle as we continue to have these conversations

and certainly disinformation is a huge part of it. Is there anything you want to shout out, any resources you want to shout out, or I guess what people can be looking for? Yeah, I'm sure. I've this on the show before, but the number one thing we can all do to curb disinformation is not amplify it, even if you're trying to dunk on it, even if you've got a great joke, sometimes it can be hard to resist, I know it, but don't amplify it. If you focus instead on kind of creating your own little pocket of the internet that can be known for trustworthy information, that it's such a better way to spend your time, I think that we all have to really understand the way that, like, this is not just something that's happening online. You know, I referenced this great Lauren

rank in peace at Refinery 29, folks should all read that. But she points out that conspiracy theories in outlandish rhetoric aren't without consequences, particularly when encouraged by those in power. In 2015, anti-abortion extremists launched a highly visible smear campaign against Planned Parenthood, featuring doctored videos that accused the organization of illegally selling fetal body parts. It was absurd and completely untrue, but that didn't stop congressional Republicans from embracing the conspiracy theory to crying Planned Parenthood and opening an investigation into the organization.

Just a few months later, Robert Deere opened fire on a Planned Parenthood Clinic in Colorado Springs, killing three people, including a security guard. He confessed that he was, quote, upset with them performing abortions and selling baby parts, a direct reference to the cooked-up anti-abortion smear campaign, a conspiracy theory that certainly has echoes in other far-right conspiracies like QAnon. And so, again, these are not just things people are saying online. They can have real-world consequences, just like the continued, repeated lie that Trump won the election and that it was being stolen, led to violence at the Capitol.

The more that we tolerate just unchecked conspiracy theories and allow them to seep into our mainstream institutions, like our Congress and our government, the higher the risk for real world danger and real world violence. And so do not think this is just happening online. This is a real thing that has real consequences for all of us. So with that, because as we talked about, they were already putting in laws that don't make sense that are just political games. And in order to continue this rhetoric of lies for anti-abortion reasons, as well as the fact that even though Trump is gone, still the lie of voter suppression is very well in play.

As in fact, you know, in the state of Georgia, and I think I saw it in the state of North Carolina, they're already vamping up new ways to suppress votes. We've got Republican state lawmakers here in Georgia doing new laws to try to take away from absentee voting, shutting down all the polls. So all of this disinformation, like even though it's kind of like, even though it's kind of like, okay, we can kind of push it aside because Biden's finally in office, this anti-abortion rhetoric is not gone.

Just because we have an actual pro-abortion, pro-choice people in office doesn't mean this fight's not over. What can we do as a listeners? What can we do as the people behind here as we see? It's not just online. What can we do in real life to help a stop the spread, but also be an advocate? I think the fact that I forget the numbers, but there are a lot of Republicans' lawmakers, right now, who to this day will not say that the election was not stolen. Right.

You know, we have kind of like the idea of, quote, legal votes has made it into our lexicon as if there is a widespread documented pattern of voting irregularities in this country. There just is not. There are, in every election, you have people where it's like, oh, I was voting for my son who was at college or this or that. There's always a smattering of sketchiness here or there, but there is not any kind of documented widespread voting irregularities in this election or in any of our last recent elections, right? And so the fact that things like, oh, well, I think we should count legal votes has become

part of our lexicon and has been sort of seen to be kind of a moderate thing, I think has done such a great disservice to our democracy. I don't think we will know how bad it is for many years. You know, I think it planted a seed in a lot of people that maybe will never. go away. And honestly, I think one thing that we can all do is just being willing to push back on the echoes of these fabrications. So whether, you know, if someone says, well, I think we should count every legal vote, being willing to say, like, well, you know, what do you mean by that? You know, tell me, do you think there's a lot of illegal votes out there? Like, what do they look like? How often are they happening? I think being willing to interrogate these claims so that they

cannot become part of our fabric of understanding the world because they're based on lies. The same way that when people say like, oh, did you know that Joe Biden supports abortion up until five minutes before delivery and saying that's not true? That is incorrect. If someone was trying to do an abortion five minutes before you were meant to be in labor, that will be a crime. That's not happening. And that's incorrect. Just being willing to push back on these ideas that are based on nothing in ways that are going to actually prevent them from becoming part of the fabric of how we understand the world because they're based on lies. I know that it's a tall order, but we have enough in this world to contend with.

We don't need more. Right. Stop adding more. That's fair. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without. Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He runs up the quarter. licking his fingers why he got the ball like after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah you figure it out real quick get your ass up and down the court and you're going to get

the ball so listen to Point Game on the iHeart radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts American soccer is about to explode the World Cup is coming Ramos sending on to Ernie score! I'm Tad Ramos I'm Tom Boat on our podcast

inside American soccer you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. You're going to look at stats and numbers. He has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great

run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. And you know, I just have to ask you one last thing because you have been in it. You have been in it whether physically because you're in D.C. Or because you're part of things like ultraviolet and talking about this information. What have you been doing for yourself?

Oh. For self-care. Oh, my gosh. Because we haven't asked this question a long time, but that's been a part of our MO. So what is your self-care? Oh, my God. I'm so excited to talk about this. It's funny.

I mean, it was, my mantra, the last few, because it was like, I got to get to inauguration, I got to get to inauguration, I got to get to inauguration, I got to get to inauguration. I had not been doing a great job of taking care of myself because there was so much. After the insurrection on the 6th, I think that everybody in my little community here in D.C. was just, we had just had enough. We had it. But, you know, one of the things that I do to really keep myself grounded and restore myself is really is being outside. And so this weekend I went on a lovely hike in George Washington National Forest. And it was very restorative, even though it was cold as bald. Yeah, so just trying to spend time outside, trying to remember that I can only consume so much. I can only do so much. You know, if I read every new take from what happened in the insurrection or every new horrible thing that's going on, I won't necessarily be any better informed or be any better poised to make a difference. And something I can really do to make sure that I'm better poised to make a difference is like, sleep, take care of myself, take breaks.

And I encourage everybody to do that. You know, it can be enticing to want to refresh Twitter a million times a day and get every new update of every new detail, of every new story. But that does not necessarily translate to you being better informed or a better ally or a better fighter in this movement. So I appreciate you guys making the space to talk about that because I think it does get erased in the movement that, like, taking care of yourself is very important. Yeah, I encourage everybody to. It's important.

What are you doing? Oh, I'm drinking a lot of coffee. Oh, I'm writing fan fiction. And I got a walking treadmill desk. Like a really cheap one. Like a really cheap. I don't want anyone to be like, wow. No, it's very cheap and small.

But it's, I like it. I love it. That's nice. Is it under your desk right now? No, this is my podcast desk. It's under my research desk. Okay. Yes.

Oh, you have two separate spaces. It sounds like you're so rich. My closet doesn't have enough space for a treadmill. Even if it is a small one. Oh, okay, well, I was trying to help you out there. Yes, well, that's what I'm doing. Yeah, I honestly don't know. Look, and it's not because I'm not doing things,

it's mainly because I am so disorganized with my time because I am at the worst of keeping things separate, so I'll work all the time and then just sit all the time too. So it's kind of like one or the other. But for me, a lot of, like, I am a comfort person, so I rewatch things that I love and know how it's going to turn out. And then bask in that. And then also a lot of cuddled times with my dog.

Who was a jerk. Why does it feel so good to, like, rewatch the office for the hundredth time? Like, what is it about it that that's so comforting? Why? It feels like friends. And because you know what's coming, you're not going to be shocked or disappointed. It's true. Or if you're going to be disappointed, you already know it's going to be disappointing.

And sometimes you can fast forward through that. Yeah. Yeah. What's your comfort show? Oh, I have a few. Super natural. has become one. Thank you, Annie. I don't know why, but it has become

one, but also New Girl, Parks and Rec, have become a few of them. I watch some weird things, like The Flash. I really love that show, and I just love how genuinely sweet it is. So I watch really silly things like that. And then I'll rewatch movies like nobody's business. I love this.

It's like a prescription for self-care and comfort. Yeah, yeah, and also I just wear soft pants. That's my other comfort. Soft pants, dog cuddles, and that television shows you've seen a million times before. Sounds great. Well, Bridget, what else do you think

if we left anything out or if there's more that you, resources that you want to provide? Is there anything else you want to add? Well, I would say if you want to have more conversations about disinformation and how it pertains to women and folks of color, my podcast, There Are No Girls on the Internet, just released a brand new series all about disinformation called Disinformed. You can check it out on this very network, IHeartRadio.

Awesome, yeah. Definitely do that, listeners. Bridgett, you want to shout out any other places that the good listeners can find you? Yes, I'm on Twitter at Bridgett Marie, and I'm on Instagram at Bridgett Marie in D.C. Well, thank you, as always, for being here. You've managed to make it a delight, even though we're talking about things that are not so delightful. It's a skill. It's true.

Thank you. I hope so. You know, there's always room for humor, even if it's gallows humor. There's always room for humor. Yes, yes. Yes. And we very much appreciate it. but can't wait until you're back again. Listeners, if you would like to email us

you can or email stuffmedia, momstuff at iHeartMedia.com, you can find us on Instagram at StuffMov Never Told You or on Twitter at Mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our super producer, Christina. Hey, Christina.

And thanks to you for listening. Stephom Never Told You's a production of IHeartRadio. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Another podcast from some

SNL, late-night comedy guide, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, and on my new podcast. How Hard Can It Be? I call on my Gen X squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS. Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to fupas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex sometimes?

They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with IMA Maria Riva on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. American Soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart the chip. Score!

I'm Tab Ramos. I'm Tom Boca. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines, the biggest decisions, and the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals

or potentially a great run into the semifinals. Listen, inside of America, American soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was part of it. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

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