There Are No Girls on the Internet - The X Files’ Dana Scully inspired a generation of women in STEM

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

WE’RE DOING A LIVE SHOW IN NYC AND ONLINE ON 5/28. GET TICKETS: Tangoti.com/live    Trust no one...except for TANGOTI host Bridget when she says that the pragmatic, efficient  and skeptical FBI agent Dana Scully deeply inspired her. (Photographic evidence: https://www.tangoti.com/xfiles ) And it turns out Bridget isn’t alone.   The Geena Davis Institute on Gender and Media’s study on the Scully Effect found that Scully inspired a generation of women and girls to go into STEM.   Read the full report on the Scully Effect: https://seejane.org/research-informs-empowers/the-scully-effect-i-want-to-believe-in-stem/#:~:text=Moderate%2Fheavy%20viewers%20place%20a,in%20behaviors%20relating%20to%20STEM.   Want to support the show? (thank you!)   Subscribe, tell a friend, leave a review, or buy some merch at There Are No Girls on the Internet’s store: TANGOTI.COM/STORE   Join our newsletter: Tangoti.com/newsletter Say hello at [e-mail]    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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business. Call 844-844-I-Hart. Your 20s can be so exciting, but they can also be really overwhelming, confusing, and honestly, just kind of lonely. May is mental health Awareness Month and the psychology of your 20s is breaking down the science behind the biggest roadblocks we face. I was six years into my career, the 80-hour weeks and just the first one in, the last one out, and I ended up burning out. There was a large chunk of my 20s that I like was just so wanting to like be out of that phase out of my skin and I just like really regret not living in the present more. You don't need to have everything figured out right now. You just need to understand yourself a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart radio app, Apple

or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast Deeply Well with Debbie Brown. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply Well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. There are No Girls on the Internet is doing a live show at Caviot in New York City on Friday, May 28th. You can also attend virtually from wherever you're at in the world. We'll have super cool guests, a meet and greet, and a lot more. Go to tangoity.com slash live to get tickets. That's t-a-n-g-o-t-t-com slash live. And I cannot wait to see you there. Dana Scully served as a role model.

And when we asked them why, it was because she was in control of her destiny. She didn't have to be saved. There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. So I was obsessed with the TV show The X-Files growing up, specifically because one Dr. Dana Scully. Now, I know that woman scientist is kind of a television genre now. with shows like Bones and CSI. But back when I was growing up,

Dana Scully was one of the only successful, capable women in STEM on television that I had. Before Scully, a scientist on TV was usually a loner white dude in a lab coat. And this critical lack of representation kept women and girls like me from being able to see ourselves meaningly reflected in STEM fields.

According to the Gina Davis Institute on Gender and Media, yep, severe-headed by that Gina Davis. This portrayal reinforces the belief that science is a male pursuit, one that is held by many children, adolescents, and adults. Children start implicitly pairing men and math as early as age seven, a bias that continues into adulthood. The Davis Institute researches gender representation in media and advocates for the equal representation of women. Their researchers looked at the impact that Dana Scully had on women and girls in STEM, and the importance of representation in media. I have the privilege of serving as the president and CEO of the Gina Davis Institute on Gendered Media. So had it an actor like Gina Davis, the woman behind iconic performances in films like a league of their own,

come to start an institute dedicated to equity in media? Well, it actually came out of her experience as being a mom. Like any mom, she was watching content with her actual daughter at the time, who was a toddler, and she was struck by the disparity and lack of female presence, fictional presence in the content that she was showing her daughter. And like any mom, you turn to your friend, you're like, hey, did you notice in such and such show or movie there just wasn't a lot of female characters and her friends would say, no, we didn't really notice that.

And then she'd asked the same question when she would meet with producers or other creators for potential acting work. And they would say, no, no, we had this character, we had that character. And they were naming wonderful female characters. But it was one. And she thought, my goodness, in the 21st century, women and girls are 50-something percent, 51 percent of the population, and they're not being reflected in popular content. And the concern came because of the messaging.

What's the message that not only my daughter, but my two young sons are getting about where women and girls fit? And they're important. Are we saying that they don't share the sandbox? Are we saying that they're not as important? And that's what gave her the drive to say, I need to get the research. I want to know if I'm correct.

You know, am I truly seeing this gap and this disparity? And so if you hear Gina talk, she'll say, I didn't mean to start a whole institute. But once she gets started, she tends to become very laser-focused, like with her archery and many other things that she does. And that's how the institute came about. out. So it came about, you know, from her being a mom and concerned about, you know, what kind of

biases her daughter going to grow up with, you know, her sons, et cetera. And that's, that's, that's how it got started. Yeah, I'm so glad that you talked about how it's important, not just for young women and girls, but also for boys, for people of any gender to understand that, you know, yes, women and girls are self-actualized. We have roles in society and in the workplace. It's not just important for women and girls. It is important for us, but also for everybody to see the ways that women and girls should be integrated in society and see a diverse array of what that actually looks like. Yeah. So for example, if you grow up seeing, say, a media landscape that is full of, many diverse people. I'm not just saying boys, girls, any type, people with disabilities, LGBTQIA, if that's normalized in what you see in the fictional world, then it transfers into

your real life when you're at school, maybe when you're playing sports, maybe your first job, you would expect to see that flavor, those colors of the rainbows reflected in an environment because that's all you've ever seen. That's what you've known. Now, we know that's not exactly the real world, but it normalizes it. Media is playing as important of a role in influencing their societal beliefs

as much as church, sports, sleeping, you know, all of those other activities. So you can't ignore it and say, oh, it's just a make-believe. No, no, no, no. What plays out, you know, on screen can also transfer to real life and could be in a wonderful way, in a really positive way. Now, representation is not the end-all-be-all, but we do know that it matters, because everyone deserves to see themselves reflected in the stories that we consume. And to that end, the Davis Institute uses technology to put some data behind who gets treated like a full main character and who has to be satisfied with just seeing themselves reflected as a self-sum.

side character and someone else's story. One of my on-screen idols, Miss Dana Scully, your organization put out a report about the Scully effect, which I definitely want to talk about. But I have to ask, you know, you mentioned how, you know, a diverse array of folks can have a diverse

array of different kinds of jobs. You know, applying that to you personally, you have had this incredible career that has spanned over so many fields, philanthropy, you're an Emmy-nominated entertainment professional. You used to run the Hallmark channel, which I have to tell you, is where I get the bulk of my holiday programming. Love the holiday movies.

How did you personally get plugged into this work at the Institute? I was on a journey like I think we all are. And I'm the first person to go to college. In my media family, I come from, you know, generations of immigrants like many other people. And so there wasn't a pathway or a pipeline pre-provided for me. And so going to college, which we could debate the value of that. That's another podcast. You know, at that time, going to college was a really big deal and also trying to find your way.

And this is a secret about me. Now you're really going to think I'm very strange and I'm sure. or your listeners are, but how do you get information about people? And this is like pre, you know, pre-IOS universe. I would read the obituaries. And as much as I know there's been a lot of argument about how the obituaries have not favored women, but I was constantly looking for unsung heroines. Were there people out there doing things that could help guide me or give me ideas? And I read about so many great women who invented things. And people like you just would never hear about.

Now, of course, you would know who they are. And I was a executive groupie. So I would just latch on and look at great men and women who were doing interesting things in their careers. And I would look at what was the path that they took? Because I didn't have anyone leading me. I didn't have anyone, you know, mentoring me. So with that, how do you get experience?

And a dear family friend loved dating very high-powered women. God bless him. He's still alive. Thank you, Frank. And I wound up doing a lot of internships with a lot of his high-powered girlfriends. That's how I got my gigs. And so I started interning from the time I was 17 all the way until I graduated, college at 21, where I wound up landing a full-time job at ABC because of all the internships that

I've done. That's kind of how it started for me. Wow. I'm so glad to hear all the different places your professional journey took you. And I'm even more happy that you landed somewhere that is really changing, I think, our understanding of the role that media can play and how important representation is for the kind of world that we want to live in. You know, some of the tools that the Davis Institute puts out are so incredible, you know, things like the inclusion quotient that uses machine learning to analyze who speaks the most in different types of media or spell check for bias that uses the Institute's human expert coding to determine the representation of six identities, gender, race and ethnicity, LGBTIQIA plus, disability, body type representation, age representation. I guess my question

is how are, first of all, I just want to shout out the depths to which the Institute is like really putting, doing in this work in a granular way. And then also, I guess my question is, how are all of these tools and studies being used to create a more equitable media landscape? Well, first of all, I can't take credit at all for the depth of wanting to see not only how many female characters may be on screen, but what is their sense of agency?

that came from Gina. So one of the things that she always wanted to know is, okay, great, I can count on one hand, how many female characters are, but are they being seen and heard with the same weight as their male counterparts? And that data point was not humanly possible. And it wasn't until we received a lovely technology grant from Google.org back in 2013. And we found, true partners in USC Vachirby School of Engineering, led by Dr. Shri Nariyan, to come together. And Gina said, I want to know the screen and speaking time. And this is really funny. And if you ever have a chance to meet Shri and his team of engineers, Gina and I sat with them and said, we want a thing him a jiggy. And now you've got the most brainiac million scientist, engineers. And they looked at us like, what?

yeah, we want a thingy. We want the thingy to extract screen. And they built it, right? They did it. And what we found is that even if it was a top of the call sheet, right? So you had a female lead, a male lead, that the female characters were on screen and speaking a third of the time less. Wow.

Even though they had the same weight, say, in terms of a call sheet. And that was not possible until we had the GDIQ, the inclusion quotient. which uses, as you mentioned, machine learning plus human expert coders to do the other things. Because as you mentioned, we look at intersectionality. And for us, intersectionality, which Kimberly Crenshaw, thank you, Kimberly, beautifully coined at Columbia. But in our world, we look at the intersection between gender, race, ethnicity, LGBTIQIA, disabilities, age, 50 plus and body type. So our intersectionality is a little bit different than the traditional full-on definition, but that's what we look at, you know, that intersection.

The tools that the Davis Institute builds and champions opens up the door for media makers to make their stories more inclusive and better represent a diversity of identities. It's been used as an auditing tool for people to measure where are we, where do we need, to go, how are we doing? It would be complicated for us, and it can be used in a live production kind of way. So it's been used as an auditing tool by many leading brands and entertainment entities. Once we socialized that, we thought, well, what could really be an intervention? And that's where we turned back to our partners at USC who had had this patented text tool IP, and we said, we want a different thingy.

And essentially the combination of their text tool IP and our human expert coders were able to look at words. And so think about it. You know, you're writing a script for something. And for the people that are being charged with looking at cultural equity. in content and then having to have a discussion about it with the people who are actually producing and making and crafting the content. This is a way for them to come together around a data-driven conversation versus a theory or opinion. And essentially, it's very pragmatic in that we look at who is speaking, who is contributing dialogue, and it's just who is showing up,

How are they showing up? Are they being described? And for many of your listeners who may have gone to film school or, you know, screenwriting 101, you don't describe all your characters, which could be great. So the banker, you know, the coach, the, et cetera, they have dialogue, but they may not be described. Well, that could be an opportunity to have a discussion to say, okay, it's a 21st century. who could the coach be? Who could the banker be? And how could that be an opportunity to infuse more

diversity, equity, inclusion in a piece of content that doesn't disrupt the story. It's not changing the authentic truth of what the storyteller, the story they were telling. And so that's where Spellchuk for bias is being used to help foster that conversation and also kind of flag some things, you know, especially sensitivities around sexism and racism. And there's some things that we can flag. We're all looking to be better allies. We're all paying very close attention to how things land when you say something, right? And this is a way to help do that. Take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to,

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You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.

Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. And just then, we felt the plain turn in the air, so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. Each week, we dive head first into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships,

and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know, but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him.

Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. At our back. The X-Files first premiered on September 10th, 1993. Introducing the world to Dr. Dana Scully, a medical doctor working as a special agent for the FBI, alongside her partner, Fox Mulder. I also had pretty big crushes on both of them growing up,

but that's a podcast for another day. Together, they investigate the X-Files, unsolved FBI cases caused by unexplained phenomena. Whereas Mulder is the wild card open to the possibility of the paranormal, Scully is capable, efficient, and deeply skeptical. But you also get to see a lot of who she is and what makes her her. She's a really complex character. For instance, her Catholic faith presents an interesting departure from her usual skeptical nature.

Now, I watched Dana Scully on X-Files every week growing up, and she was one of the first women that I saw in STEM regularly. And she gave me a way to imagine myself one day working in technology too. And it turns out I was not alone. The Davis Institute published a report on what they're calling the Scully effect, the idea that Dana Scully inspired a generation of women and girls to go into STEM fields because they finally saw themselves represented. Now, it has long been assumed that Scully had this big impact on women and girls.

But before the Davis Institute, there had been no formal study confirming it. So here's what they found. Women who are medium and heavy watchers of the X-Files hold more positive views of STEM than non-or light watchers, and that nearly two-thirds, or 63% of women who are familiar with Dana Scully say that she increased their beliefs in the importance of STEM, and that among women who are familiar with Scully's character,

half of them report that Scully increased their interest in STEM. So while Dana Scully was getting to the bottom of all that paranormal activity, she was also inspiring a generation of women and girls to be interested in the sciences. And thanks to the Davis Institute, well, that truth is out there. I love how you really high

that you're able to get some data around it because I think, like, you don't know what you don't know. And so you can't even start to understand or tackle the problem if you really don't have the information of the scope. And I guess that's such a good segue into the study on the Scully effect because I think for a long time, it had been just sort of assumed that Dana Scully, this amazing character on The X-Files, who was a huge part of my upbringing and development as a young person, and I guess still is today. But there was this assumption that certainly a generation of women and girls saw this dynamic, successful, capable woman in STEM and that she probably had an impact on encouraging women and girls to see themselves in these fields and then actually go into these fields. But people didn't know. I think it was really based on this assumption one can reasonably assume. And so I guess my question would be, why was it important for the Institute to really put some research into confirming? that yes, this Scully effect did actually make an impact.

What was wonderful for us is that Fox approached us because the X-Files was on the air in 2013. I think it was going off. Then it went off the air. Then it was coming back. And I think it was going to go off on the air. So it was on for over a decade or so on and off. And they said, you know, we know anecdotally that there's this hashtag,

Skully Effect. And we want to prove it out. Would you partner with us and help us prove that theory out? And so what we did is we surveyed thousands of women and girls that would have been able to watch the show. And we asked them a series of questions. And what we found out from that is so among the women who said they were familiar with the show, 91% said that she was a role model. And the other one, which gets at what you were saying, 63% of them said that they work in STEM because Dana Scully served as their role model. And when we asked them why, it was because she was in control of her destiny. She didn't have to be saved. She used logic and science to make decisions.

and she countered a lot of stereotypes for female characters, you know, at that time. And so it was a almost a direct correlation. And it was exciting, you know, for us because normally we wouldn't conduct a study on somebody else's IP and make that a case history unless it was something they wanted to partner, you know, with us. So we were thrilled to have a chance to work with them on that and to use that as evidence. You know, it's definitely evidence. Yeah, and it really goes back to this idea of if you can see it, you can be it in the importance of that representation. And I know, it might be harder for younger folks to really understand, but I was watching The X-Files when it first premiered. I was a big fan.

I had a poster in my locker that said the truth. out there. So I was hugely, hugely involved, like, heavily, heavily a fan. And, you know, the show premiered in 1993. That's cool. Yeah. And my producer and I, right before you and I started talking, we were trying to name another show that was on, or a movie that was on the air that involved a woman who was a scientist or involved in STEM. And the only thing I could think was the Sandra Boloch movie Love Potion Number Nine. She plays a biochemist. But it's kind of like a romantic comedy. It's not, it's certainly her job as a biochemist is not the big part of the movie. And, you know, today we have so many different women, like if you watch Bones or like SVU, women who are

in technical fields and in STEM. But back then, they're just really like, like we struggled to come up with another woman scientist on, on a film or in a television show, other than, you know, Dana Scully back in the 90s. I really could not, I could not think of any. It's so, it was a new thing. Right. Well, maybe we could make a case for the amazing

groundbreaking Michelle Nichols, but she was on Star Trek. Yes. You can assume that if she was flying around out there in the universe, she had to have some kind of stem degree, right? Yes.

That's a good, that's a good call. And God bless her and we're so thrilled with everything that she contributed to breaking stereotypes. But we could say that she was maybe the first scientist because she was in space. That's true. Shout out to shout out to her. We love her. I guess, you know, were you surprised to see how big of an impact the Scully effect actually had for a generation of women and girls to see themselves reflected in STEM? Like, I find the results to be not surprising, but just really kind of affirming that she did have this great role in people being able to see themselves in her. Not at all, because we've seen other examples of that. So another example of that totally different is when Gina got to play the first ever president, female president, on TV. I think her show was on 19 times.

and the Linda Thaler Kaplan Group did a study on audiences' views on the potential of a female president. And what they found is, I think, 58% of the adults that were familiar with the show would consider a female candidate. And this is going back to like 2004, et cetera. And you think about the show was only on, you know, 19 something times to have that kind of, you know, imprint. And then another great example is, you know, Gina went out for the Olympics in archeries. She was in the trials and qualified for the trials. And a few years ago, her coach said, hey, gross participation in archery. has just gone crazy.

And so we did a survey and we worked with the National Association of Archery in America and we found that there were two movies in 2012. What were those two movies? Hunger Games?

And? What's the other one? Rum roll. Brave. Those two movies came out in 2012 and girls' participation archery went up

104 percent. They saw it, they went out and got a boat. It was instantaneous. Wow. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel

and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Davey, and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group

perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to

podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHart.

Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-4-I-Hart. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker. cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast a slight change of plans, a show about who we are

and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live. We have to be willing to live, with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your husband is not who you think he is.

Your body is not what you saw it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. And just then, we felt the plain turn in the air, so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships, and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves.

My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know, but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything, and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went, out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. One of the questions I had, which is a complete, like, devil's advocate question because you don't need to convince me. But, you know, when you see these people who were like, it's just entertainment, you know, it's just movies, it's just TV.

It doesn't really make a difference. What do you say to that? Like, what's your response to that? Because I have to imagine, there has to be people out there who think, is there something else that you should spend your time studying or analyzing or working on? Who cares about the television that we consume or the media that we watch? What do you say to that? Well, let me give you another example.

And let me tell you another story. We had the privilege of working with, it was Jay Walter Thompson at the time. And we did a survey of 4,300 women in nine countries. and we asked them how they were positively influenced by a make-believe fictional character. And as high as one in four said that seeing a positive female role model gave them the courage to leave an abusive relationship. Wow. That's real. Yes.

I mean, that's like saving someone's life. Like, media has the power to do that. Exactly. So, yes, it's make-believe, but what happens in the made-believe world can play out, hopefully, positively, in the real world and change lives. Oh, I, I, I don't know that I would be hosting a tech podcast, if not for Dana Scully. You know, I think that there was not, we just didn't have stories like. that where, you know, her partner was the one who was the, the out there person. She was the one who was like, cool, calm, collected, didn't need to be saved, was very capable. I really liked

that she was, you know, still, she still, you knew that she had a life outside of work and you, you, you got to understand her as a whole dimensional woman who did this work. I think, you know, if you were, you know, in the study you talk about how like the perception of a scientist was an awkward man and a white lab coat. Dana Scully wasn't awkward. She did wear a lab coat, but she certainly was not awkward. She really, they really depicted her in this loving way, and you really got to understand her as a full person.

And I think, I just, I still remember the first time I watched the show and what an impression that made on me and thinking, like, oh, maybe this could be a career for me one day. Maybe I could do something involved in technology or science or a STEM field because she allowed me to really see it. I had never seen anything like that before. So certainly, stories and media have been important to me hugely. Absolutely. So you talked about Gina Davis.

I am just now learning that she is an Olympian-level archer. Is she as cool as she seems in the movie, A League of Their Own? Like, that's the benchmark Gina Davis for me. It's like she'll never be cooler than that movie. Is she just the best? Well, what's amazing is this summer will be the 30th anniversary of a league of their own. Oh, my God. And we're looking to celebrate that, plans to be shared.

And, you know, she is sincere. She is dedicated. She rolls up her sleeves. There's a lot of celebrities that have charities and nonprofits and what. not, but she really digs in. The Institute was born out of her vision, her desire to change, you know, the world and make it more equitable, particularly for, you know, women and girls all over the world. And she's a really big thinker.

She's very creative. But she's very thoughtful, you know, and kind. And as you can tell, like, on the mouth kind of thing. So, yeah, she's that cool and then some. I love it. Madeline, is there anything that I did not ask, but you want to make sure it gets included? Well, yeah.

So we welcome your audience to become members of the Institute. We do year-round programming. We have all kinds of great events where we launch our studies, networking, follow us on social media at Gina Davisorg, and we welcome for anyone who's listening to get more involved. So there are no girls on the internet launched a new newsletter called Dear Internet, where I am taking your internet questions and conundrums.

You can subscribe for free at tangoity.com slash newsletter to read my full advice and submit your own questions. You might even hear yours on the show. So I wanted to read one of the letters that we got from a listener that we're calling Joe. Dear Internet, I have dealt with depression on and off for most of my life, and since the pandemic, my issues have only gotten more pronounced. I experienced a particularly low period where if I was able to get out of bed and dressed, it was a good day. When I feel like this, my default is to cut off almost everyone and everything from the outside world. Thanks to a good therapist and new medication, that period of my life is thankfully behind me for now. But now that I'm reconnecting with the world, I'm struggling to deal with email inbox that is full of unanswered emails, some of which are, or at least were time sensitive.

The idea of tackling this inbox fills me with dread. It feels really embarrassing and almost rude to reply to an email after several months. These feelings of shame and guilt make it difficult to move forward on cleaning on my inbox. What's the cutoff for responding to an email late? Are there instances where a reply can come so late that it's better to not reply at all? And do I need to explain to people why my response is so overdue? So if you want to read my full response, subscribe to our newsletter. But yeah, I really wanted to start with this letter because, oh boy, can I relate.

And I feel like a lot of us, especially since the pandemic, can probably relate to this feeling of dread and ickiness that comes with having to dig out an inbox. There's actually a recent episode of one of my favorite ever podcasts you're wrong about, about how email got to be so awful and annoying. Spoiler alert, it has a lot to do with the rise of Gmail as our email platform and tech companies like Google, kind of thinking that everyone wants to enjoy the pressures and expectations to respond to emails right away, no matter what time it is that people who work at tech companies have to deal with. So that icky feeling that comes with your email inbox is actually kind of by design. So thank you, Google. You know, I also deal with mental health issues.

In my case, I have generalized anxiety disorder, and my anxiety can really manifest itself into feeling panicky around email in my inbox, and at least to things like me ignoring emails and really letting them pile up, or spending an hour overthinking an email response that just says, sounds good, thanks. You know, I'll spend an hour writing that and thinking about all the ways that it can go wrong, most of which are just kind of in my head. But, you know, I'm also a busy, creative professional. I make a podcast and I do other things, and so I,

can't let my email get too out of control. And so I actually take really clear steps to handle this in my own life. I have someone who handles my inbox because I know that I just cannot be trusted and really should not be trusted with my own email. And I'm really curious, what is your personal relationship with email?

What does it look like? What does it feel like? Are you someone who feels the need to get to inbox zero? Are you somebody like me who, when other people look at your inbox, they kind of cower and disgust at how many unread emails you have? What does it look like? I really want to know, so subscribe to our newsletter at tangoity.com

and let me know. I can't wait to hear from you. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoity.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody. There are no girls on the internet

was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeart Radio and unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Taray Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Dodd.

If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your 20s can be so exciting, but they can also be really overwhelming, confusing, and honestly, just kind of lonely. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and the psychology of your 20s is breaking down the science behind the biggest roadblocks we face.

I was six years into my career. the 80-hour weeks and just the first one in, the last one out, and I ended up burning out. There was a large chunk of my 20s that I, like, was just so wanting to, like, be out of that phase out of my skin. And I just, like, really regret not living in the present more. You don't need to have everything figured out right now. You just need to understand yourself a little bit better.

Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast Deeply Well with Debbie Brown. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole,

this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply Well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching the latest season, of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know, there's a lot to break down. Portia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man.

They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise, the drama, the alliances, M&T, everybody's talking about. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.