There Are No Girls on the Internet - TikTok wants you to call congress; Black people love Trump in AI deep fakes; Disable this new Twitter feature — NEWS ROUNDUP

Episode Date: March 8, 2024

What fake images of Trump with Black voters tell us about AI disinformation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/06/what-fake-images-trump-with-black-voters-tell-us-about-ai-disinformation/ A bill that could lead to a TikTok ban is gaining momentum in Congress. Here's what to know: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiktok-ban-congress-bill-bytedance-divest/ TikToker and disinfo expert Abbie Richards on why banning TikTok would harm marginalized communities: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/banning-tiktok-would-hurt-marginalized-communities/id1520715907?i=1000606352152 Elon Musk switched on X calling by default: Here’s how to switch it off: https://techcrunch.com/2024/03/04/elon-musk-x-twitter-calling-privacy-switch-off/ AOC’s Plan to End Deepfake Porn: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/aoc-deepfakes-defiance-act-1234979373/ CBS Sued by ‘SEAL Team’ Scribe Over Alleged Racial Quotas for Hiring Writers: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/cbs-studios-paramount-reverse-discrimination-lawsuit-racial-quotas-1235842493/ Writers Sound Off About Litigious ‘SEAL Team’ Staffer Who Claims He Lost Gig Because He Was White & Male: https://deadline.com/2024/03/writers-reaction-seal-team-staffer-brian-beneker-lawsuit-discrimination-1235846195/ Thanks to the listener who helped get this obituary of Shafiqah Hudson published in the New York Times (if that listener is you - please reach out to me!): https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/us/shafiqah-hudson-dead.htmlSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Welcome to There Are No Girls on the Internet, where we explore the intersection of identity, social media, technology, and the Internet experience. And this is another installment of our weekly News Roundup, where we summarize Internet news that you might have missed. Joey, thank you so much for being here. Hey, Bridget. Thanks for having me. Okay, so I have to start out with a question. Do you have any tech-related pet peeves?

You might have guessed this is like me asking you so that I can gripe about mine. but I want to hear yours first, Joey. Oh, Bridget. So many. Why do you think about this show? Okay, this is like a very small, like in the grand scheme of things, pet peeve. But lately I've been really, really annoyed with the Spotify algorithm. Just because I don't know if y'all have tried, like, they have this new, not new, I guess it's been around for like a minute.

But if you type in like angry mix or like happy mix, like it'll come up with like a collection of songs that they have created for you. And it just like hasn't been good. I've got some really weird ones. I think especially, I don't know, I think maybe it's also just like I like I'd listen to a very wide variety of music. So I feel like a lot of times too, like a lot of it will get like mixed up together when I don't like it'll label things in certain genres. that they aren't just because I've been listening to it a lot. I don't know. I've,

anyways, I've been very annoyed with the Spotify algorithm lately. I'm not. And also, I've realized it's been very hard to find, like, new music to listen to because it just keeps recommending the same artist that I already listen to,

like, when I'm looking for new music. Um, which, you know, it's fun if I, like, I'm just trying to listen to the songs that I like,

but, like, I think especially trying to find new stuff now, just because of this new, like, these mixes that are tailored specifically for you, makes it so much harder to find new stuff, which I don't like. Yeah. So I don't know.

There's so many issues that Spotify just as a company and like the way that like the streaming sort of network industry works that I, it's annoying. It's very annoying. You have like activated something in me because I could talk about this all day. So I think this is just, I haven't done any research into this because it's just banter. But I think I know what's happening with your playlist, which I I think that Spotify is probably, if I had to say, deprioritizing human people who make curated playlist and curated recommendations.

Like I know that they used to have like big teams of humans working at Spotify that made playlists. And I know that like they are using AI to do some of that now. So I wonder if that's had a hand in why the playlist aren't as good. I also think like with play with like when you're looking for. new music, when you listen to a song, you want the next algorithmically generated song to be like not the same artist or a song that you've heard before, but spiritually the same. I know exactly what you mean. It's hard to put into words. Like, I want it to be like, you're looking for something. It's very hard to verbalize, but do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's just weird. I think especially

with, they keep doing these ones that are based on emotion and it's like you can't have an AI take out. I have a screenshot of my phone of one that was like happy mix. And the artist that they use in the picture is Mitzki. And like I listen to a lot of Mitzky. That's not necessarily my happy music. I don't think many people would call that happy music. But like the algorithm was like, oh, this has like an uptempo beat. The song, I don't know what's going.

I totally think you're right though. I think it's a lot of the AI algorithm sort of stuff regardless of them. Because I, you know what? I have a lot of friends that make great playlist. I think I make a pretty decent playlist. Like there's clearly something's up. Something's up. It's a lot of like TikTok music too.

Oh, I've noticed the same thing. Something else I've really taken umbrage with on Spotify is how bad their podcast player is. Like I have Spotify premium. I have to say it is where I listen to my podcasts, but I am almost in like a toxic relationship with Spotify's podcast player. You'll try to rewind it 30 seconds and it's like, oh, did you want to start playing a totally different podcast? Oh, it's so weird. Yeah.

There's certain shows that they like show the ads are different, like how they, yeah. It's really annoying. for a company that is like not monopolized I guess a lot of people use Apple music like other platforms that really like taken over this market like they don't operate well and I don't know I keep reading things too

and I think this might lead into what you're going to talk about but I keep reading things too about like so much of our music and media and stuff that used to have like analog copies like now people aren't collecting because I was like I can't even think like I don't even think about the option of leaving Spotify because I'm like

I have all of my, I've had Spotify since I was like, like, in high school. Like, I have like all of my music there. I don't have hard coffees of those, you know, songs that I like. I don't want to lose all of that. Yeah. I have a love-hate relationship with analog. So I'm an analog person, like, because I am a woman of a certain age, I was really into record collecting.

Like, most, like, hip music people were at a certain era. and let me tell you, I have had to, I have, so I have a massive record collection in my house, I have had to schlep this collection to multiple apartments

when I move, multiple cities. Had I, and I started collecting records before streaming was ever a thing. So I never imagined that I would live in a world where you could just get

every single piece of music that Devo ever put out at the touch of a fingertip. So it's like, no, I need to have every vinyl that they've ever made. the only way I'll ever be able to hear it. And then you have to shove them from, like, New York to San Francisco to apartment,

to apartment. Like, yeah. But that said, like, as media companies and streaming companies delete stuff, like, I've been hearing more and more about, like, oh, you bought this game. Well, guess what? Like, we can actually just delete it. It kind of feels like in 2024, like, what does it mean to own something digitally if you never really own it in a real sense at the,

company that you bought it from can just like take it away. And I don't know, part of me, especially as Netflix and Hulu like raise their prices, part of me is like, I might have to dust off that old DVD player because I have a lot of those too. And that actually, it does lead to my big tech pet peeve that I have like just been enraged by. I was visiting my parents, my mom has got a new car. So I was driving her car. And it's brand new, it's super slick. And her car barely has any buttons in it, like physical, pressable, clunky, old school buttons. Everything is done on a touchscreen mounted on the dashboard. Pretty much everything.

So I'm like driving and I'm trying to use my hand to, you know, turn up the volume, turn the song or put on the heat or whatever. And I'm feeling around expecting there to be like a touchable button. It's all on a touchscreen. I don't know if you've driven a car like this. I'm sure there are people listening. who were like, oh, I prefer the touchscreen. But whatever happened to a good old-fashioned button?

Like, what is this assumption that touchscreens are automatically better than a good old-fashioned clunky button that you press? Oh, yeah. No, my mom also has a car with this sort of technology. It's the, like, Tesla effect where everybody's picking up, because I think Tesla was the first one to have the, like, just iPad screen in their, And it's awful. Like, driving it is so annoying and, like, trying to deal with the control.

Yeah, no, I don't understand the appeal of it. So we actually might not be alone in this because this is from Lifewire. The European New Car Assessment Program, or Euro N-CAP, gives safety ratings for cars. And next January, cars will not be able to get a five-a-five rating unless they use buttons, stocks, or dials for essential safety features. That's what I'm talking about. I'm sure people listening are like, it's better on a touchscreen. No, it's not. Buttons were fine.

What did buttons ever do to anybody? Exactly. It's the same with everything. It's the same with like iPhones. Like as soon as they got rid of the, I, this is my back in, you know, all the technology these days. But like I feel like once they got rid of the home screen on like iPhones or like the little home button, home screen button on iPhones, like that was it.

That was the end. That was the beginning of the end. That was the end of everything. Everything went to shit. our whole culture. I was just on the podcast, also on outspoken, Black, Fat, and Fem. And one of the questions they asked was like, what was your favorite piece of technology? And it sent me down this rabbit hole of how much I loved BlackBerry.

And part of it was that it had the clickable button in this like clickable kind of mouse thingy in the middle, like a circular button. And I swear to you, I would type messages on my BlackBerry. Like, I thought I was like working for the Obama White House or something. Like, I took it so seriously. I thought I thought I was like, you know, sending high pressure, high stakes, emails. Mind you I was in my early 20s, so I definitely was not sending anything of any import. But something about the clickable button made me feel like I was really doing business. Yeah.

There was, like, about Blackberries too that I feel, I don't know, at least. So I understand, I was a child when Blackberries were a thing. so I always associated it with like it being my dad's like serious work phone that he had to use. So like in my mind like Blackberries are like this serious like I am doing I am going to work, you know, what a child assumes an adult's, you know, job and careers. Like Bridget, have you seen the Blackberry movie that? I sure have. I saw it. I was lucky enough to get sent a screener. Thank you whoever made that happen

But I Wait, did you see it? I have not seen it I do love Glenn Howardton though So I got to see that This is Okay so I love Glenn Howardston I love Always Sunny

I love their podcast Or I listened to it for a while I've kind of fallen off on it But when I tell you that like I believe he could have been nominated For an Oscar for Best Actor For his work in this movie Like the BlackBerry

A movie is his citizen Kane. Like he is he is he I didn't I guess there are I don't know if you watch Always Sunny but there are times in it when his character Dennis has a real like white hot intensity. And I think and I never

really yeah I never really thought he had I never really put that together of like oh he this is like very good acting. He is like a very good actor. You got to see it. Please watch it and tell me what you think. I it is it's definitely on my list. Yeah that was my I I I

I feel like that's a great character for him. I would love to see him play more. Like somebody actually, I think, God, there was some tweet or something I saw, right? I am against the idea of these types of remakes, by the way, just disclaimer, but somebody like, they might be making an American Psycho remake or something, and somebody immediately posted, like, a picture of him is like the,

oh, they should cast him. And I was like, that would be perfect. That would be so funny. That is the one actor I actually would go see, again, another needless remake of a movie. movie. Oh, my God. I would absolutely watch that. I would absolutely watch that. Yes, cannot, like 10 out of 10 Blackberry movie. Also, it really captures that time very well, just the time of, like, you know, when iPhone came out and it was like that Steve Jobs announcement up on the

stage, you know, like just how we were all communicating that. It really is, it does a great send up of that era. And I feel like this whole segment is kind of like, er, kids these days, technology, which leads us into our first topic very well, which is an update on what is happening in the fight to potentially ban TikTok. Have you been following this? I found out about this probably the same way a lot of people did, which is that I opened TikTok and there was a very alarming infographic thing that like immediately pops up being like save TikTok. But yeah, that's that's about as far. I'm not going to lie.

Honestly, I saw it and kind of exited out of it and just kept scrolling. So I was not in the mood to think about reality at that point. Yes, you're like, I'm just trying to disassociate some TikToks. That was not why I opened TikTok was to find out about the government collapsing. I don't know, whatever is happening. So if you, like Joey, opened your TikTok app and saw a big black and white banner that said, stop a TikTok shutdown. Congress is planning a total ban of TikTok.

Speak up now before your government strips 170 million Americans of their constitutional right to free expression. This will damage millions of businesses, destroy the livelihoods of countless creators across the country, and deny artists and audience. Let Congress know what TikTok means to you. So here's what's going on. A bill that would force TikTok's Chinese owner bite dance. to sell passed a big vote today. The House Energy and Commerce Committee voted unanimously to pass this bill,

meaning that TikTok is one step closer to essentially kind of being banned in the United States. Now, to be clear, this legislation would force Fight Dance to sell TikTok to an American owner, but because of the complicated nature of that, like, who would they sell to, how it at work? We break all of this down on an episode with Abby Richards that will put in the show description. And basically, people are calling it a ban, even though it technically isn't because forcing TikTok to sell to an American owner is like so complicated that it may as well be a ban. This bill, in order to become a law, would still have to pass the House and the Senate.

And some senators have already expressed opposition to it. So if you opened your TikTok app like Joey and got that big alert urging you to call your congressperson, that is why. Basically, TikTok is kind of going on the offensive here. And even though this is just one hurdle of several other hurdles that would have to be satisfied for this to become the law of the land, I think TikTok is really feeling the heat. I actually did not get one of these alerts my open TikTok today. I wonder if it's because they know that I'm in Washington, D.C., and I don't have a voting member of Congress that I can actually call on. So if you don't live in Washington, D.C. and you actually get to enjoy meaningful congressional representation, well, congratulations, call your congressperson for me and tell them that I like TikTok.

I imagine that having congressional representation. I do think, I got to say, I do think it is a little bit funny because, and not to single out TikTok, obviously this is like a universal issue, but TikTok has done so much to repress activists within, you know, particularly recently. It is a little bit funny to see them now utilizing their platforms. form to be like, come on, call your Congress people. We love free expression. What are you talking about? Yes, I mean, that's one of the things that is so tough about this conversation is that I have a lot

of gripes with TikTok. I have a lot of gripes about their moderation. I have a lot of gripes about how content is promoted or not promoted, whether or not certain topics are being suppressed. I'm not the only person in hearings. Lawmakers have asked about this too. And so I don't want to make it seem like I am like, yay, TikTok, TikTok has no problems. But some of the way that these lawmakers are framing TikTok, I really take issue with. And so it's an issue where it's like, it almost sounds like I am very pro TikTok, even though I really, like you, Joey, I know that TikTok has a lot of big problems and I have a lot of big concerns about how they're moderating certain things and how some of their policies. And I do have to say it does sound like this push to get folks to call

their Congress people is working. One House GOP staffer told Politico, quote, it's so, so bad. Our phones have not stopped ringing. They're teenagers and old people saying they spend their whole day on the app and we can't take it away. Here's Representative Jamal Bauman from New York saying that banning TikTok would silence the voices of younger Americans, particularly who are using the app to organized for things like climate justice or a full ceasefire. My colleagues are trying to ban TikTok, which is crazy. They're doing it because of your pressure, because of your organizing, because of your good work. One million emails sent to ban the Whipple Project.

Four million emails sent to demand a ceasefire. Much more work to do as we head into these elections and beyond. Again, they're not trying to do anything to Facebook, even though China gets most of this information from Facebook. They're going after TikTok or they're going out. to young people. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy,

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Yeah, I know. And like, I mean, to clarify what I said before, too, I think, I think honestly, like for, you know, obviously TikTok itself, and I agree with you. Like TikTok is not a lot of messed up stuff. But at the same time, it is this platform for particularly young people. And, you know, like he said in the video, I think, you know, it's part of the reason TikTok gets, that gets targeted and now these other platforms is because it isn't primarily younger audience. and yeah, we've seen all these like movements. You know, TikTok may not necessarily treat those movements well and treat those, you know, kind of voices well on their app, but it is a platform for a lot of these more progressive movements that I think especially like, you know, this past year. And that is something that there are people that have stakes in silencing that. Yeah.

I mean, I can't sort of turn off the part. of the conversation that does feel sort of like hand-wringing about like what are the youths doing on their phones. And like, I am a huge proponent of, you know, safer digital experiences, particularly for young people. But people are describing the views and attitudes of young people in this way that it's like, oh, well, it must be the app that is making them feel this way. And it's like, it couldn't possibly be that young people are smart and empathetic and they've looked at the facts. and like they have a point of view. It's like it just seems, it just seems very disingenuous to make it seem like TikTok is the reason why young people are, you know, organizing for a full ceasefire and things like that. Like it just, it just feels very belittling to their perspective and their point of view. And I just, I don't, I don't, I don't, do you know what I'm saying?

I don't know if I'm being clear. No, I totally agree. I mean, I think it's a kind of like tale is oldest time. There's always, you know, the latest technology or like the latest thing. It's always, you know, this thing is exposing our kids to this new idea. It's never like, hey, there's just this idea out there that is appealing to people because, you know, X, Y, Z. Like, I don't know. But, but again, yeah, like, this is the same thing with every kind of new technology, every kind of new art form.

Not to say that TikTok is necessarily an art form, but I don't know. like any new kind of platform or method of like communication. This is kind of the conversation that is had over and over and over again. And like, A, there's that. And then B, I think they're genuinely, I mean, I don't want to say I don't know what is up because I do think I know what it's up. But it is, it is so weird. Like with the calls for ceasefire, I think with like previously when like the Black Lives Matter

protests were kind of in full swing. Like every single time there's sort of this idea of like, oh, this, well, like my kid couldn't actually think this or like, the general public couldn't think this because it is against what the status quo is or against what is like the most convenient kind of point to, I don't know, like it is sort of part of the thing that is like politically most convenient. This, that kind of argument is connected to so many things. I think that's where you get like what like Nancy Pelosi telling protesters to like go back to

Russia or whatever because they're like, ages. of the Kremlin. Like, it was some, they were talking about Palestine, which is a totally different, like, I don't know, like, it's this idea that people in general

can't think for themselves and especially young people and especially progressive young people. And I think that is not surprising, and I don't think it's going to stop necessarily. But yeah, it is like, clearly that's the root of the problem,

not the fact that TikTok is, like, poisoning people's minds. Yeah, it's so insulting. We have talked about a TikTok ban on the show before, And so I think folks probably know how I feel about it. You know, just like any social media platform in 2024, there are definitely valid concerns about TikTok. You know, anybody who tells you that there are not security concerns with TikTok just doesn't know the facts.

There were reports that TikTok accessed journalists' information in an attempt to identify which employees were leaking information about the app. TikTok actually admitted to doing this according to an internal email. But when asked about it directly, TikTok C-E. responded that, oh, well, spying is not the right way to describe that, which like, it did sound like spying to me. So TikTok doesn't. I don't want to make it seem like TikTok has like a squeaky clean record because they do not. However, this is not the kind of opposition that lawmakers are levying against TikTok. They're saying that TikTok is a big national security threat because it is a Chinese-owned company and the platform is being used to like steal American

data and feed it to the Chinese Communist Party. So not only is there no smoking gun or no evidence of this being the case, it's also just like a plainly xenophobic thing to say. Like the way that lawmakers have spoken to the head of TikTok makes it clear to me that there is some obvious xenophobia going on. And so I think that lawmakers have sense that people want them to crack down on Big Tech. And I think that lawmakers want to look tough on China always, right? And so going after TikTok as this singular boogeyman is, is a way for them to kill two birds with one stone and really do that. I also think that the reality here is that the United States wants to remain the sort of major big player when it comes to big tech.

They don't like the idea of other countries, you know, becoming major players in the big tech landscape and the social media landscape. They wanted to just be for, you know, your Mark Zuckerberg's and your Elon Musk's of the world and not your showsy shoes of the world. And I think that's what it really comes down to. Yeah, definitely. I mean, they've been very transparent about the fact that it is more to do with China than it has to do with, like, protecting people's data or whatever. Which, like, I don't know. Yeah, like, Facebook's probably doing just as much harm, if not more. And, uh, I mean, that, that clip of the, like, Senate hearing where they just kept asking the guy if he was part of the Chinese part, like, the Chinese party is part of it. Like, what's your connection to China? Right. But really, what's your connection to China? Like, it's so fucked up.

The fact that people like still think this is about genuine safety concerns and not just yeah xenophobia like after that I think just kind of goes to show how messed up a lot of this is. But yeah, again, like it is sort of the double edge or the sort of two-sided issue of like there's still all these issues with this platform. They've still done a lot of messed up stuff. But also like clearly this is not coming from a good place or. from a genuine concern for people's safety. Because if we're coming from a genuine concern for all of our data privacy,

we would have some sort of meaningful data privacy legislation, which we in the United States do not. It does not begin and end with banning TikTok. All of our data is essentially on sale for whoever wants it, including China. Only a few weeks ago, Biden signed that executive order that limited the sale of some of our data in some ways to, quote, countries of concern, including China. But as Wired points out, this executive order only means that

U.S. data brokers need to take some steps and some security requirements during transfer, many of which were already required by law. And so, like, I have a hard time understanding why TikTok is this massive threat of all of our data being given to China, given that a foreign adversary like China would not even need TikTok to get that data right now. You know, as long as they follow certain specific guidelines, they can totally legally buy that data from U.S.-based data brokers. And so that to me is a huge problem. I don't think that we should be making TikTok this big, you know, boogeyman while not meaningfully addressing the actual root cause of the issue, which is that we don't really have the kind of data protections and privacy protections

that we need in this country. And so just to sort of wrap this up, I think it is still too soon to say whether or not TikTok will actually be banned. If I was a betting woman, I believe it could be banned. Like I think it's more likely than not, but that's just my opinion. But even still, this bill still needs to pass both the House and the Senate

and be signed into law by the president, in which case, if it did become the law, bite dance would still have six months to sell before any kind of ban takes effect. So we'll keep following this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

guess we'll find out. I will say personally, I don't think it's going to end up being banned. Ooh, tell me more. I just think I just think it's like been in the kind of cultural Zygd guys too long. Like it's like if this, the first round of this happening, I was like

oh yeah, they're definitely going to ban tech talk. I feel like by this point, by like 2024, I feel like it's too far gone. And also, like, they said, you know, there's all these, like, teenagers and older people, too, I guess, like, calling in and complaining about it. I do think, I think at least if there is a band, I don't think it's going to last. I think it'll, it'll, or there's going to be some sort of way of going around it, but. Oh, for sure. I guess we'll see. That's something I really think about a lot is, like, in, like, you could, like, there are so many ways to get around this band.

I would also be really curious how it will be enforced. And, you know, it has to be said that I do think TikTok has really been instrumental in traditionally marginalized communities really being able to have a bigger voice. You know, our communities have, you know, unless you like know, know, unless you like know, know somebody on the masthead at the New York Times or whatever, sometimes it's hard for our communities to really have access to the kind of media power that other groups have. And so I do think that this is, if it is banned, I think that marginalized creators and marginalized communities would really be. suffer the most because we don't always have those avenues and those channels that are already built to get our voices and our stories out there. There are so many things pertaining to marginalized communities that I personally would not have known about, if not for TikTok. And so I'm concerned that as a platform for me, staying informed about what's happening

in other traditionally marginalized communities other than my own, I'm concerned for what the banning of that app means for me being able to stay informed with what's going on. Definitely. Yeah, I totally agree. And I mean, I feel like part of the reason why right now this is so concerning is just the fact that it's like Twitter's gone to shit too. Like there's not necessarily. Like I feel like TikTok was kind of where I turned when Twitter stopped being like

functional. So I don't know. I don't know what's going to where people are going to go next. Yeah, I feel the exact same. Speaking of Twitter being kind of a garbage factory, while this week over on Twitter, they rolled out video and voice calls. Y'all might recall that Elon Musk really wants Twitter to be like an everything app where you do your banking, your phone calls, your emails, all the things that you already do online now. But I guess like you can do all of those things over on Twitter, but I guess at great security risk to yourselves and also shitty. I guess that's how he's envisioning it.

Yeah, you never want him to like actually actually. access your bank account, but in a less secure and more annoying way, Bridget? I mean, like, finally, a solution to this problem. So because we're talking about Elon Musk here, the rollout of these video and voice calls has not been good. And it's been rolled out to everyone by default. You do not get the option of opting in. If you have the Twitter app on your phone, I don't think it's on the browser yet, but you have it. So here's what you need to know about this rollout. First of all, Twitter's new video and voice calls leaks your IP address to anybody that you talk with,

and it's really complicated to limit who you can talk to. TechCrunch has a really good explainer, which we'll link to in the show notes, where they say that a person's IP address is not, like, hugely sensitive necessarily, but these online identifiers can be used to infer location and can be linked to a person's online activity, which can be dangerous for high-risk users. So if you're an activist, if you're a public figure, if you're a dissident, if you're somebody who, you know, is engaged in sensitive conversations or sensitive work, that could be concerning for you. Another thing to know about this is that Twitter does not mention encryption in any of their official help center pages at all.

So their calls probably are not end-to-end encrypted, which potentially allows Twitter to listen in on conversations. Into-end encrypted messaging apps, as signal or WhatsApp, those prevent anybody other than the caller and the recipient from listening in. And I do feel like, luckily, we're going to a place where that is, like, more of the norm. And it's kind of interesting to me that Twitter rolled this out without even referencing whether or not calls are encrypted in any of their messaging. When TechCrunch actually emailed Twitter to ask about this, like, incredibly basic privacy and security thing, they, of course, got the standard Twitter reply, which is like, oh, we're busy now. Please check back later.

Which again, to me, really speaks to the carelessness with which this was rolled out, you know, giving it to everybody by default, you know, not having people opt in or even like meaningfully telling them what's going on. And then not being able to answer some of these basic security questions to me is like a big red flag. So my advice to everybody is unless you have some particular need to be doing calls over Twitter, you should turn this off. It's pretty easy to turn off. We will drop the tech crunch piece with pretty clear instructions with images on how to do this in the show notes. But unless you've got some real pressing need to have Elon Musk like listening to your sensitive phone call, I suggest that everybody turn this off. Let's take a quick break.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite on humor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and Hilar. various guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. There's that worst singer in the group? The worst?

Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard.

but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Human me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again.

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Let us show you at iHeartadvertising.com. That's iHeartadvertising.com. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. And we're back. So speaking of online shenanigans, I have to talk about this recent report from BBC, breaking down a new-ish disinformation trend that we're seeing ahead of the 2024 U.S. presidential election, which is fake AI-generated images of Trump, with black people. So I've actually seen a bunch of these in the wild. The one that sticks in my mind is an image of Trump posing with a bunch of young black men. This was shared unironically by somebody that I follow on Facebook or like I'm friends with on Facebook. And so like was not shared

in a like, look how stupid this is kind of way. Shared in a like, yay, Trump, this is great kind of way. And so the caption of this fake image was like Trump's motorcade was driving around Baltimore when And these kids asked him to stop and take a picture. And it was seen by 1.3 million people. And it's one of those images where, like, if you thought about it for 10 seconds, like, think about it critically for 10 seconds. If Trump's motorcade was driving through Baltimore and a bunch of random kids on the street were like, hey, Trump, stop your motorcade and get out of the car and take a picture with us, do you think that would happen? Like it's just like, it's one of those things where it's like, the image is compelling. I will give them that.

But if you just thought about it, you would realize this is, this doesn't make any sense. It doesn't hold water. Yeah. I don't think, yeah, I, I would say I would not expect that to be something that Trump would do realistically. I'm also like looking at this photo. I mean, it's the whole, it's the AI thing where like I can, I get how people could like. maybe a mistake was for an actual image at first, but they're so, like, all of the people in the picture look so, like, airbrushed. It's so weird. Yes. Their skin is, like, way too

polished and smooth and kind of, kind of, like, shiny in that way that just, like, your normal skin doesn't skin unless it's fake. Yeah. Yeah. One of these pictures, because I'm, I'm just seeing them now for the first time. One of them genuinely does, like, it actually is a little freaky. like it kind of looks like a real photo and I think if I was like scrolling on like Instagram and I saw it I would assume it was a real photo. But like yeah, no, it is, all of these photos like whenever like AI photos always like have a weird kind of like inhuman quality to them. Yeah, I mean they do now.

It concerns me like not even that long ago. We were always like, oh, look at the hands. Look at the fingers. And now it's like it's figured out how to do the hands and the fingers. and now we have to look at other tells. And so I'm with you. I do think a lot of these pictures, like I'm not above this. Like I have been taken by AI pictures before, even as somebody who thinks about

disinformation and AI a lot. Like I think it was the Pope image. The Pope. Yeah, that one got me. But it was exactly like you said. It was the morning. I was, I had not, I didn't have my contact lenses in yet. I was just like drinking coffee and scrolling.

social media on my iPad in the morning while having breakfast. And like, you, like, of course, in that instance, when you're just quickly scrolling and you're not necessarily primed and poised to be having your critical thinking hat on, you might see something quickly and be like, oh, okay, sure, like, guess the Pope is wearing this Balenciaga puffer. Guess Trump is hanging out in Baltimore with these kids on the stoop. Like, guess it makes sense. And we should have a media ecosystem where you don't have to have your critical thinking cap on 24-7 whenever you're on social media to determine what is true and what is fake. Like, it is wild to me that we all have to be so on our toes all the time. But I do think in this climate, we kind of do.

Yeah, definitely. And yeah, again, like this first photo, I, that, that, that, this one, it's just like with a group of, like. The women? The women. Yeah. the one with the one in this first one. That one's freaky. That, that, that, I think that could trick me. Like, that, you, you can still tell even with that one, like, the hands are a little bit messed up, but the way they have it, like, you can only really see, like, two people's, like, one hand on two different people. So, so it's easier to, to kind of look over, I think. It's easier to kind of, like, not, not really catch on. Uh, yeah, this is just a perpetual AI, I generated a nightmare. But, you know. So as far as we know, these images are not coming from

anybody connected to Trump or Trump's campaign. But the co-founder of the organization Black Voters Matter, which is a group that encourages black folks to vote, says that the manipulated images were clearly pushing a kind of strategic narrative designed to show Trump as popular in the black community. And so we don't even need to look to AI to see this everywhere, this notion. that black folks like Trump, I, you know, try to monitor what's happening in known disinformation spaces. And in far right extremist media, they say things, they're so fucking racist, but they say things like, oh, well, the Trump mugshot means that black people are going to love Trump or like the Trump sneakers. You know how black people love sneakers. It's like, it's the, so like, it's not

just coming from these AI visual disinformation pieces. That message that black people, that black people are excited about Trump, I'm seeing being pushed in spaces that have nothing to do with AI. And it's, it's, it's very telling to me. And again, they're always so offensive. Like, like, the way that they are. The sneakers one was crazy. Yeah. The sneakers one was so, like, oh, okay. We're doing that. All right. Yeah. It is. And so like, well, I guess even though you don't need AI to make this kind of offensive, you know, digital fakeries. It is concerning. So the Washington Post's tech vertical spoke to the person who made the image that you're talking about that you said looked so real. He is Mark K, a host of a conservative radio show in Florida, who said that he

created the image using the AI Image Tool mid-journey to illustrate a November 29 post about Trump's alleged growing support among black voters. He said that he knew that posts that have an image tend to perform better on social media platforms. So he just made this image on mid-jurney and he said it took him 30 seconds to create, which is concerning that like in less than a minute somebody could make this like pretty convincing image. The Washington Post also spoke to Dr. Joan Donovan, who made a really good point about that

coverage of this kind of thing is kind of tricky. can also sort of feed into the problem because the people who make these kinds of images want people to be talking about them, right? And so the image itself might not be newsworthy until it gets a kind of coverage that makes it go viral. Dr. Donovan says, one of the things we have to consider about campaigns like this is how much they are stunting in terms of trying to get media attention for something that otherwise would not merit headlines. Some propagandists might recognize that it's possibly not newsworthy that black people support Trump, but it is newsworthy that AI generated photos of fake voters are circulating.

And to Dr. Donovan's point, Mark Kay actually said that his AI generated fake Trump images did not go viral until they were covered by BBC. And so, you know, Dr. Donovan might have a point there. So Dr. Donovan went further and spoke to this idea that, yes, like, AI that gives people the ability to quickly and effectively make this kind of visual disinformation, is really scary and, like, bad. But cheap fakes and other kinds of media manipulation also exists. And it's also a big concern because, you know,

whereas these Trump deep fakes now have labels on Facebook and Instagram that say they are not real, cheap fakes and other kind of low-budget media manipulation might not trigger the same kind of misinformation detectors in the same way and can potentially spread further. Yeah, definitely. And yeah, like something. that Trump has been very good at, has been like, you know, monopolized or taking advantage of media

coverage and media coverage of, like, you know, outrageous or sort of out there behavior. This kind of reminds me of, like, early on, I think this was more the 2016 election, but the 2020 election too, like, whenever there would be, like, some sort of group of, like, marginalized people that supported Trump. Like, I remember there was a big, like, kind of, article about this like gays for trump like thing and it was like okay it doesn't even like it's probably like a tiny group and then b it's like the whole like sort of like shock value it's like wow this marginalized group that like the republican party kind of hates uh is supporting like their super right

wing candidate um but yeah like again that's not necessarily newsworthy it's sort of not showing the scale the actual kind of impact of these, or not trying to scale like the actual support or numbers or whatever or what that means, what that argument is. There's probably, there's people of, you know, whatever marginalized group that support Trump or the Republicans for like whatever reason. That in and of itself is not necessarily newsworthy, but what it does is it kind of like distorts distorts like the wider story and yeah it's it's it's it's just weird it's like yeah once everything about this election is just going to be so insane it already has been but yeah yeah i think you make a really good point that i think that's what what dr donovan is saying is that you know

we really need to be thinking a little deeper about these stories and what makes them newsworthy because a group of gay people loudly advocating, like a small group of gay folks advocating their support for Trump, it's not, like, there's a deeper story about, well, has Trump actually, you know, been good for this community? And what are the actual numbers of folks who support Trump?

Like, I do, I do wonder if it, like, makes it tempting to turn what otherwise would just be, like, maybe a small stunt or something. into a larger pattern, you know? It definitely, like, yeah, it definitely, it feels like the issue is mainly just that, like, it's sort of changing what the actual meaning of, like, it changed, it's changing what the story is. It's implying something about the way a certain group of people votes.

I feel like the whole kind of way of, like, tracking votes based on, like, you know, particular identities that people have, too, like that already is so outdated. and like we've already seen the kind of nuances of that and like you know yeah there's different factors in people's lives that make them vote certain ways or do certain things or believe certain things and then just kind of like roping it into like I don't know this yeah again it feels like they're falling for what the this kind of campaign wants them to like what message they want them to circulate which doesn't seem good exactly and that's exactly what disinformation special Lisa Janquitz, who was also on the podcast before, said that we don't actually need to be

totally terrified because we do have common sense. And common sense is still a really good deep fake detector. And Nina says, you know, when you see images like this, you should ask yourself, like, is Trump actually a great friend to the African American community? If something seems off about it, it is probably a deep fake. Right. And so just really going back to our common sense of, well, what do I know about this person? Does this seem like something they would actually be doing? I also would go further and say Donald Trump is a known germaphobe. He's not usually photographed like that. And the one deep fake image, he's like hugging these two women. And it's like he's not someone who is generally photographed being that touchy feeling

with people, let alone black women. So is that something that you would see, right? Right. Yeah, no germapope, known racist. Like, this is not, I literally, I, back in like 26, I guess, yeah, well, that would be 26th. Back in 2016, like, because I was,

I'm from Chicago originally, and there was like a rally that he canceled in Chicago because he was afraid he was going to, like, get shot. Like, it was because of all of his stuff that he was, like, it was insane, like, this man. And I'm not saying, I don't know, who's the same, what would have happened? But it's like, one of those things of like,

this man is so, like, I don't think he is going into predominantly black neighborhoods in Baltimore. Like, I just, that just not seem to be the kind of thing that he would be putting himself in that situation because of certain beliefs that he has, you know? You don't see Donald Trump stopping his motorcade and chilling with the homies on the stoop in Baltimore? You don't see it? You know, anything could happen. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group. The worst? Yeah.

Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, uh, you only got in because you're parents. made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yardt Yardt.

They're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business. and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.

Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-I-Hart. night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays,

the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Let's get right back into it. Well, speaking of AI, you know, we talk on this show a lot about AI deep fakes. specifically non-consensual deep fake images. And it really does feel like every week there's like a new school where it's happening or a new celebrity who is being targeted. But now Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has a plan to stop it. AOC told Rolling Stone that she's going to be leading the house companion of the disrupt explicit forged images and non-consensual edits act of 2024,

also known as the Defiance Act. It's like an acronym. that's why it's such a mouthful to say, with a bipartisan group of representatives. So this bill is her first move since being named to the House of Representatives Bipartisan Task Force on AI. So how this legislation would work is that it amends the current Violence Against Women Act so that people can sue anybody who produces, distributes, or even receives deep, fake, non-consensual pornographic images if they knew or recklessly disregarded that the victim did not consent to those

images. AOC says that she developed this legislation working with survivors and survivors groups, which to me is very important because oftentimes legislation that doesn't really center and listen to the people impacted can end up having, you know, a different impact than the intended impact and like can just end up like not making the lives of people who are targeted or survivors better. More than 25 organizations have endorsed this bipartisan legislation, including the National Women's Law Center, the Sexual Violence Prevention Association, the National Domestic Violence Hotline, and Ultraviolet, where I used to work. AOC said that she started working on this legislation the week after those viral Taylor Swift

AI-generated deepfakes happened on Twitter. So again, for as much as we talk about the harm that deepfakes represent for women, girls, BIPAC people, other marginalized people who, according to the UN and just common sense and life experience, are at a heightened risk for experiencing technology facilitated gender-based violence. And given the way that we know technology like AI, deepfigs, is already disrupting democracy. Amazingly, there are no federal laws criminalizing it. Like every time I think about that, I just think about how wild it is that it's just like kind of a laugh. like some states have taken steps, but federally, nothing.

And so this legislation, if it goes through, would be the first federal law taking any kind of action against non-consensual AI generated deep fakes. Yeah, that really is crazy. I mean, I mean, like, yeah, like this type of deep fake, you know, is obviously kind of a new thing. But like, I feel like this is kind of been an issue for a while. and you would think at least like there would be some sort of like liable thing you could like put it under somehow. But yeah, I mean, like I've said before, I think Swifties can change the world once again. I have a little skeptical about this TikTok fan going through. I believe in the power of fan girls and, like, teenagers that have just a deep obsession

and parisocial relationship with Taylor Swift amongst many other celebrities. Have you ever read that book, Everything I Need I Get from you, how fan girls created the internet as we know it? I am not, but like I should. That sounds like that's totally up my alley. Give it a read. It's by Caitlin Tiffany. It changed my whole, basically.

long story short, you're right, that fan girls created the internet, they control the internet, they control everything. Look, I mean, yeah, again, I spent a lot of my formative years on Tumblr and I do, it was listening to it like another show and they were talking about that, that new movie that's coming out that's like based on Harry Stiles fanficition. Oh, yeah. I just watched a trailer for that just a moment ago. Yeah.

Because it was so funny. They were talking about this whole phenomenon of these like fan fiction movies, fan fiction books to book to movie. And I'm like, yeah, no, this has been like a thing. Like this is. I think like the fan fiction writers are like a pillar of the online community and now are making their way into the big screen as well, which is an interesting phenomenon. But yeah, I love.

that. I definitely will check that book out. Oh, speaking of the big screen, we have to talk about this lawsuit. The most recent, like, jaded, jilted, white guy lawsuit. That should be a new segment, like, in addition to the, what it's Elon's on now. White guy lawsuit alert. Yes. Er, er, white guy lawsuit. New white guy lawsuit just dropped.

Okay. we're adding that. That's going to be a new segment. Love it. Okay, so since the Supreme Court struck down the race portion of affirmative action, we've been covering all these different legal challenges. We're going to have our new segment. So keep an ear out for that. But all of these different legal challenges have been rolling in from white folks who were like salty, they didn't get something they wanted. And they're being like, oh, it's because a woman or a person of color unfairly took it. And that's racism against me as a white person. And so this newest lawsuit, has been filed by a script coordinator on the show SEAL team named Brian Beneker who claims that, quote, heterosexual white men need extra qualifications

to be hired in Hollywood. Historically, yes. Historically, you know how it's always been heterosexual white men who can't get a break in any industry, whether it's Hollywood, you know? Hollywood especially.

Especially Hollywood. It's like historically, historically. You know how like it was white men who like weren't allowed to be in movies, had to enter through the back interest of nightclubs when they were performing, all of that historically. Remember how that happened? Oh, yeah.

So let's pause and imagine that this reality where it was straight white men who needed to work like twice as hard to prove themselves and not everybody else in Hollywood. So basically he is being represented by America First Legal, which is the legal initiative of the former Trump White House advisor, Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller, of all of the like Trump administration, one of my favorite outlets, Wonkette always uses the phrase chuckle fucks.

Of all of them, like he's the one that sort of, I found the most personally odious. But their thing is basically filing complaints with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission against major companies, including Starbucks, McDonald's, Morgan Stanley over their corporate diversity and hiring practices. I believe that CBS is the first entertainment company that they're going to. have targeted in this way. So his lawsuit is pretty ridiculous. Basically, he argues that CBS has diversity quotas and that he was promised like a writing job when one opened up on the show and that instead, they hired a bunch of unqualified bimboes instead of him, a white man who deserved it.

That's basically the gist of the lawsuit. He says that CBS's hiring practices have created a situation where heterosexual white men need extra qualifications, including military. military experience or previous writing credits to be hired as staff writers compared to their non-white LGBTQ or female peers. Extra qualifications as in previous writing credits. Like writing experience. You know. They made me write a resume.

I'm being discriminated against. Also, I am so, this, this maybe this just specifically, I have a lot of friends that work in film. I have a background working in film. so maybe this is particularly like pissing me off because of that but like go to any film set it is so like a historically it is a deeply deeply misogynistic deeply racist industry and still it is like the majority of the people you're going to see there are going to be white men like yes oh my god especially in the writer's room yeah I mean it just sense to me like what he's

really saying is like, I want a system where being a white straight male means I get stuff, and that is never questioned. Like, that's the system that I want. Like, that's what I think we should have. And just to be real for a second, like, I almost didn't include this story in the roundup, but it's a little bit of a smokescreen because I really wanted to read some of these comments that Deadline published from women writers and Writers of Color about this because they are hilarious. They're A plus gold. So Deadline. did a roundup of people responding to this lawsuit. Here are a couple

of my favorites. So a lot of them point out that this person is a script coordinator and he is demanding that he bypass like script supervisor and be made straight like just I want to go right to the top I demand to be made a producer. This quote, that man suing

CBS is also demanding they make him a producer. If that's not peak whiteness, I don't know what the fuck else is Lamo. Please somebody go find a writing sample of his. That's from Kelly Terrell, which I thought was really funny. Wait, really quick. I've never heard somebody say Lamo before. Oh, is it LMAO?

I just say LMAO, but maybe, I don't know, it was like maybe that's a, is that a millennial Gen Z thing? I'm realizing I have always said it in my head, and I've never said it out loud. And now I'm wondering if that's like not a millennial thing, if it's just a Bridget Todd thing. That's just like how I've always said. I don't know. Wait, I'm going to listen to this. I mean, I say lull. Wait, here's, okay, so I found that to ask Reddit, how do you pronounce L-M-A-O? Top comment. If you're one of those people who say L-M-A-O or L-O-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-O, rather than laughing, that I think it's pronounced, please disown me. So we'll never know. We'll never know. You know what?

Keep this in. I want this as a digital record of people. Get back to us. Do you say Lamo? Do you say L-M-A-O? Is it a Gen. Do you say something else? Yeah, do you say something else? God, I, but yeah, no, I think that's what I'm going to start telling people for like career advice now, as if you want to be, if you want to get a producer gig, you just got to sue a major company apparently. Just sue them and demand it. I heart.

Yes. I hope you're listening. Your promotion. That's really, yeah, that is. That is that is peak whiteness as a white person. This is my favorite from Miles Warden. That SEAL Team lawsuit reads like a series of Mad Libs, which is ironic because he's mad at Libs.

Oh. I was chuckling to myself about that one earlier today. If it is SEAL Team, like I've never heard of this show. I've never heard of it. I feel like it's the kind of show that like somebody's dad probably watches. Like it's like, I think it's a bad. like, oh, it's got David Breranis?

This seems like it has a very, very dedicated like fandom on Tumblr somewhere and then everybody else who watches it, yeah, is like somebody's dad. It's like, oh, I'm sure. This reminds me of like, there are so many shows when I'm flipping channels. And part of it is because I just came back

from visiting my parents. And like, they're watching stuff I've never even heard of. Like, we live in such different, like, television watching silos. I guess, like, my dad has gotten really into this show about a bodyguard. I think it might as be called bodyguard. And it's all about a guy who's a bodyguard.

And it's like, part of me is like, are these real shows? Like, where are you getting these? For real. There's just like an endless list of, I feel like there also is like, that's what I was I remember, like, I had a friend telling me about a show that was very, very similar to this. But I, yeah, I feel like there's just like an endless, like list of like military. police, firefighter, whatever. Oh my God.

It is sort of like one of those things where when did we decide that the main occupations for television shows is going to be firefighter, police, maybe like doctor, nurse, like military person. Military person, doctor. There's too many police shows. That is a, oh my God. There are way, way too many police shows. I'm telling you, come spend a weekend at. the Todd's house in Richmond, Virginia, and you will like, it's all they watch, like,

the shield, the this, the blue line. Like, it's like, I had no idea. My parents were so into this, into this, like, law enforcement universe. I had no idea. This was like new information to me. So, as hilarious as all of these, these comments on this lawsuit are, there were two that I wanted to highlight that really made me think. One is from Britney Van Horn, who says, deeply embarrassing on the script coordinator's part, but everyone who uses diversity as a, quote, easy excuse for not hiring

or promoting people are complicit here too. Diversity is way too often used as an excuse for not hiring or promoting someone who had no intention to hire. And that really rings true to me that, you know, this person who is suing CBS was a script coordinator for like

15 years, right? Like, I can understand being annoyed at never being promoted after like 15 years, never getting to be a producer. But, and like, if you're someone who was like a manager of this person being like, oh, well, they want a diverse writer's room. That's why you didn't get hired. I could totally see people saying that as just an easy way to avoid having to have a conversation that's like, actually, your work isn't cutting it.

You can't hack it. We're not going to promote you. For whatever reason, we're not interested in, you know, you having a bigger role in what we're doing here. Like, I do think Brittany's point is really interesting. And this one from Friend of the Show-ish, Danny Fernanda, she used to have a podcast on IHeart. I don't know if she does anymore, but I friend in my head.

I don't know if she's, I don't know. She's never been on the show, but Danny call us, we love you. Danny tweeted, UCLA releases a diversity report every single year. Anyone can Google it. White men are the majority of writers in Hollywood. They make up the majority of writers' room. This is not an opinion. This is a fact. You lose jobs to each other to other white people. And that I think is so key because Danny is right. The numbers, as you said, Joey, are super clear that it is not white men who are underrepresented in the entertainment industry. It's just not. It's just a fact. And so you cannot sue your way into a career. Nobody is owed a career in entertainment. And you know who knows this better than anyone? The black people.

and queer people and trans people and women and other people of color who are underrepresented in the field. The people who drop out after 10 years because they're like, yeah, I'm never going to move up. I have hit this ceiling of as high as I can go. And so I'm leaving. That happens time and time again. And so being told that it is people of color and other marginalized people who dominate the industry, not only is it just like laughable, but it just like flies in the face of the cold, hard, backs. Absolutely. And I mean, I don't know what the deal is with this case, but like, I'm willing to guess that most of the writers and the writers room are probably also white men. And yeah, it is, it is like there's so many different issues here. A, it is, it is super, super hard to work in the entertainment industry. It is super hard to work in the film industry. You know, I know that firsthand. I know that through friends experiences. I think this sort of,

phenomenon. And again, yeah, like a lot of these, these companies and these production houses that have a stake in, or that it kind of, and again, like, to go to that point about, like, diversity being an easy kind of excuse, quote unquote, the issue isn't the, you know, the people that are being hired for quote unquote diversity, if that is actually happening, oftentimes it's not. The problem is these studios that then are like, look, I don't have to have, yeah, again, like, I don't even really have to be doing the work of trying to hire more people from diverse backgrounds or people that aren't just cis white men, I can just say that diversity is the issue. And then I get out of here without really having to deal with all of the bigger issues with

Hollywood and how it operates. But yeah, nobody's owed a career. These same people, like, yeah, it is like, again, it's coming from these same people that are oftentimes very, like, pull yourself up by your bootstraps kind of thing. And it's like, yeah, no, this is the dark side of all of this. that a lot of times it doesn't really work out. And yeah, yeah, again, again, all of this to say, you go to the actual reality and the actual numbers, like white cis men are still the dominant force in Hollywood. Like, that's a fact.

Yes. As I was reading about this, kind of to your point, do you remember how there was a time when folks like this would say things like, facts don't care about your feelings? Unless that feeling is, I would like a job, please. Right. I feel like I have been overlooked. Actually, facts don't care about your feelings.

Like, all of these idiots, Ben Shapiro and whatnot, the people that are like, they're all failed screenwriters. Like, it's these people that want to blame their personal failings on quote unquote diversity and like marginalized people. And then they turn around and they're like, actually, you guys are the ones doing that. You're the ones being snowflakes and being like your feelings and not play. attention to facts. It's so weird. It's such a like victim complex that I, I don't know. Like, I don't know what kind of how removed from reality slash just completely in your own head.

Narcissist you have to be to kind of view the world that way. But here we are. Here we are. Well, good luck on your lawsuit. Yeah, I will say that when I found out that Ben Shapiro got his start as a screenwriter and it didn't work out. So much click into place for me. I was like, oh. He's just mad that people didn't like his stuff. Like so many of these people are just mad that people don't think they're funny or interesting or whatever.

Elon Musk didn't try to be a screenwriter, but so much of his like thing is just that he is so mad that people don't find him funny. I all of, yeah, I don't know. There's, I think we just need a full on like, like, no more. white men making entertainment period for like a couple years. Like, I actually, I actually think we should do that. I know that's what they think is going on already, but I think we actually need to do that. Like, we need a reset.

Oh, my God. Imagine if it really happened. Like, you want to talk about like this guy being a crybaby now. Imagine if what he is laying out is happening. Imagine if that happened for real. Just, just marinate on that for a moment, listeners. the most insufferable man you know has lost his hobby and you know I meant to deal with a lot of men in film it is terrible oh my god we need to do a whole like just dish out all this yeah I want to I want to I want to hear it you can

we can anonymize it but I want to hear it I'm sure I can only imagine so the last thing I want to do before we and is folks may know someone that we had on the show, one of our earliest guests. I think it was maybe the first interview I did for There Are No Girls on the Internet with Shepika Hudson, the creator of the hashtag and movement, Your Slip is Showing, passed away. And we did an episode where we put her episode back on the feed and I shared some of my thoughts.

And I just wanted to say, I've really been wrestling with her death and the loss of her. and what it means for the internet and social media, it feels like the end of a period, like thinking about it. I was like, oh, yeah. Back when Chafika was, you know, doing her thing on the internet, it was a time when I was really active online and it felt really fun and exciting.

And it was just really not just mourning her, but also mourning the death of that time online. And I got reached out to by Penelope Green, who is a writer at the New York Times who was doing an obituary on Japhica Hudson. And Penelope was great. We had many conversations about Chavika's life and her work. And she said that the reason she was getting in touch with me was because somebody, I think a listener of this podcast, reached out through, I guess the New York Times has like an obituary request form where you can flag people that have recently passed that you think the New York Times should write an obituary.

on, which led to Penelope Green contacting me, which led to the obituary. So we'll put a link to the obituary in the show notes. I believe it will be in print in the New York Times. If you are the person who reached out to Penelope Green on behalf of Shafika Hudson to get her obituary in the New York Times, I just want to say thank you. You're probably not listening to this, but it really meant a lot to me. And it really meant a lot to people who knew Shafika and work with Shafika and Shavika, to whom Shabika touched their lives in some way. And, you know, one of my disappointments is that I don't feel like Shafika's loss was mourned by the tech community and the disinformation community as I think it deserves to be mourned. And so taking part in this series of interviews with Penelope Green from New York Times was really personally cathartic for me and gave me a lot of

closure on that. And I think it's really important that Shafika Hudson's name and legacy is memorialized in this way. So all of that is to say, if you are that person, it really meant a lot to me. Thank you. Thank you to Penelope Green for reaching out to me and other people who knew and work with Shafika and for writing such a comprehensive and beautiful tribute to somebody who I just thought was fucking great and is no longer here. And folks can read the obituary in the show notes or you can pick up a paper. I think it might be being published today. It's Thursday now, but Friday when you hear this.

So yeah, I have a lot of people to thank for what ended up being a moment of personal disappointment that I get to now sort of process with something that feels good. So thank you. And thank you, Joey, for being here and for listening. Oh, my God, of course. Happy to be here. And yeah, totally echo what you said. You know, the work that Shepika did is just so foundational to a lot of the stuff that we cover on here.

And I think, you know, it's really important to uplift those stories and to see, you know, the New York Times spotlighting this. So, yeah, totally echo that. But, yeah, of course, always happy to. be here and talk about the chaos of the world with you. Same. And thanks to all of you for listening. I will see you on the internet. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoody.com slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangooty.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com.

There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production. of IHeart Radio and unbossed creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow,

rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHartRadio, check out the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Oden

Kirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Why are we all so obsessed with romance? On the Radio 831 podcast, join us, Sanjana Basker and Tyler McCall. As we unpack all the trending tropes, fuzzy adaptations, book talk drama, and celebrity love stories with hot takes and sharp guests. Each episode digs into what these stories reveal about desire, fantasy, identity, and how we love now. Listen to the Radio 831 podcast on the IHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. We've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA.

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