There Are No Girls on the Internet - TikTok’s New Trump-Backed American Ownership Has People Fleeing

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

After years in limbo, TikTok is now officially operating under American ownership for users in the United States, purchased by a group of investors backed by the Trump administration.  And that shift is happening at a moment when a lot of people are already feeling scared, angry, and on edge — including in the wake of yet another killing involving ICE in Minnesota.  There’s been no shortage of warnings, rumors, and worst-case scenarios about what this new era of TikTok might look like for democracy, privacy, and organizing in marginalized communities. To help us all separate fact from fear, Bridget talks with Jessica Maddox, associate professor of Media Studies at the University of Georgia.   Follow Jess on social media to keep up with what's happening:   - Instagram and Threads: jessmaddox21   - Substack: bythewaysocial.substack.com  - Bluesky: jessmaddox.bsky.social   Let us know what you think about this episode by emailing [e-mail] or leaving a comment on Spotify.  Follow Bridget and TANGOTI on social media!  ||  instagram.com/bridgetmarieindc/ || tiktok.com/@bridgetmarieindc ||  youtube.com/@ThereAreNoGirlsOnTheInternet || bsky.app/profile/tangoti.bsky.social See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This information is being put in the hands of a government that seeks to actively harm those people. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and UnBossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Talk is now officially operating under American ownership for users in the United States. And that shift is happening at a moment when a lot of people are already feeling angry, scared, and on edge, including in the wake of yet another killing

at the hands of ICE in Minnesota. So for people who use TikTok to document abuse, organize, or speak out about what's happening in their communities, this timing matters. And a lot of us aren't really trusting that a TikTok operating under this new American ownership and working hand and glove with the Trump administration is going to protect our ability to speak freely about real issues,

especially when those issues involve state violence or dissent. According to CNBC, TikTok users have been deleting the app at a higher rate since the company announced its U.S. operations. The daily average of users deleting TikTok in the U.S. has increased nearly 150 percent over the past five days compared with the previous three months. Now, there's been no shortage of warnings, rumors, and worst-case scenarios about what this new era of TikTok might actually mean. So, rather than speculate, I wanted to get clear on what's actually happening and what isn't. To help separate back from fear, I turn to an expert. My name is Jessica Maddox, and I am an associate professor of media studies at the University of Georgia. Jess has been

using her own social media platforms to try and educate people about what this new leadership at TikTok actually means. So Jess, you're a social media expert, not in the way that I sometimes say I am. Like, you literally have a PhD in this. Tell us about your back. background and just how you became somebody who is interested in studying social media and how it works. Yeah, I always joke. I grew up with the internet. I mean, going really far back. I got a computer and the internet in my house back in like 1996 because my dad was a software engineer. So we were always on like the cutting edge of technology, I guess. But I don't know. I always have just really loved the internet from like even when I was a kid playing like neopets. Oh my God, neopets.

Right, right? I think it was like the pre-that was like the precursor to Animal Crossing, I think, in like a lot of ways. But yeah, I have always loved it. I was on Live Journal and Zanga back in the early days. I actually went to school, nothing to do nothing related to this. I was an English major. And then when I graduated in the last financial crash, there were no jobs. So I was working part-time at a magazine.

And they were like, oh, well, you're the youngest person in the office, figure out this thing called social media for us. I was like, I get to do this for a living. Like, this could be a job. And so I went back to school to get a master's in public relations to do social media strategy, got introduced to the academic stuff and realized those were actually my burning questions about the world. Got a PhD. I've been a professor for nine.

No, no, eight year. That nine sounds scary. Eight years now. I have tenure, which is a privilege I don't take lightly. And yeah, here I am. I basically, it's an occupational hazard that I talk shit on the internet. I love to cuss. You're absolutely allowed to curse.

Okay. Okay. I have to tell you, this is a, I'll be talking about this all day, so I promise I'll rate it in. I'm so glad that you brought up things like Zanga, Myspace, Neopets. I can't tell you how many people I've interviewed on the show where that was their entry point into tech. I've talked to people who like are high up in tech companies and they're like, oh, it all

started with neopets. Honestly, if I had to say it all started with Neopets for me too. I have a PhD now. Reporting on TikTok has not always been easy. At one point, we actually put an internal moratorium on discussing any TikTok ownership news on the podcast, unless it was fully confirmed by the company itself. And that's because there's been so much speculative or incorrect information circulating about TikTok, often repeated by people who really should know better. For example, you might remember that in the summer of 2025, reputable news outlets like Reuters

reported that TikTok was going to be replaced in the U.S. by a brand new standalone app, sometimes referred to as M2. Now, according to those reports, the new app was going to be launching on September 5th, 2025, and Americans would have until March of this year to migrate, or lose action. entirely. This story went everywhere. I saw it repeated across the internet over and over again. I even almost included it in one of our news round-ups. But the sourcing just felt a little bit sketchy to me, so I held back. And I am so glad that I did because it was totally not true. And that episode is a pretty perfect example of just how far bad information about TikTok can

travel, even when it starts with sources that are generally pretty trustworthy. I wanted to talk to you about the changes that I've been made on TikTok recently, in part because it's one of those things where there's just so much misreporting and misinformation about what's happening with TikTok. I remember, it might have been last year when there was a wave of reporting that was like, oh, they've revealed what they're going to do with TikTok to keep it in the U.S. They've got this new app. And that ended up being not correct. And I almost put out an episode on it until reading some of the reporting. And I was like, oh, this is a lot of sources say. I don't know.

Do you remember that? I absolutely remember that. And I actually, I had a private a video on my own TikTok page because so many people were asking me about like, are we going to have to download a new app? And I was like, no. And they were like, well, they said we were going to last year. And I was like, but we don't have to now. And they're like, how do you know?

And I was like, because it just vanished into the ether. Nobody's talking about it anymore. where like, trust me, if we had to, TikTok would have been pushing that so hard because I made the joke on that video. I was like, it's like when you're at a bachelorette party and everybody's drunk and you're moving from bar to bar and you're the sober friend that has to make sure

all the girls get to the next bar, but you lose somebody. That is what it's like trying to move to a new app is you're going to lose a bunch of people along the way. So TikTok was going to make sure nobody did that. That is such a great analogy. I have bet on both ends of that. So that's an analogy that works for me.

same. I have been the drunk friend and I have been the one wrangling everybody. Yes. I'm curious, why do you think, especially with this TikTok joint US venture thing that we know actually happened this week, why do you think there has been so much misinformation floating around? I've seen screenshots floating around. I've seen people, a lot of it is like, I don't want to say like it, it's almost inflammatory. Some of it, some of it is. And there are reasons to be concerned, which we'll get into. But some of it is almost sort of, like, it seems like it is designed to get a panicked resubant out of people. What do you, where do you think this comes from? Yeah, I think it comes from a lot of different places. And what I'm about to say, I want to make it clear that I actually, I don't blame people for maybe sharing wrong information or inflammatory information. Not totally.

because I think it has been very lucrative for social media companies in the United States to not educate people about how social media actually work. Nobody reads the terms of services or community guidelines or privacy policies. And that is because that's by design, right? Most of these things are written in very intense legalese also. So, and why would you?

Most of us are just, and even me to some extent, and I know better. I'm like, check, yes, accept cookies, yes. Like, let's go. because that's just how our modern social media ecosystem has been built, and that we're just like, whatever, we opt in. So that, I think, is part of the problem is that until people know to look at these documents, like terms of service and privacy policies, they don't know what we're looking at. And, again, I don't blame individuals for that because the landscape has been designed

that we don't look at them. So when we do finally start looking at them, I think people see things that should actually, yes, rightfully shock them because there is some pretty damning stuff in there. I also do think it is social media and everybody wants to be first. Everybody wants to be sensationalist. Everybody wants the engagement. Everybody wants the clicks. So people are going to rush to say things and share things and reshare things.

Like even this morning when I was reading the terms of service and privacy policies myself, I was getting some text messages. And I was like, this could be true. I'm not taking it as fact until I read these documents myself and see it for myself. These companies have built this climate where nobody, as you said, is reading the full terms of service. And they've built a climate where people are rewarded for being first and being inflammatory, which also benefits them.

So it's just like a doubly benefiting thing where nobody is reading and educating themselves. People are rewarded for like saying things that maybe aren't even true. And the cycle just goes round and round. Absolutely. When I teach my social media and society class, which is kind of just like an undergraduate survey of things about social media, I use my own Amazon Alexa data as a teaching point to my students. And again, I know better and I still have an Amazon Alexa.

So take that with what you will. But also this becomes actually a really good teaching tool because I have no qualms showing my data. And so I download all of my Amazon Alexa data. Put it up on the screen and class. I said, this is everything Amazon is collecting about me. And the thing that gets them the most is when Amazon has coded how I speak to my Alexa in a positive, negative, or neutral tone. And their faces is just like horror.

And I said, okay, so why would they do this? And my students, I teach brilliant young kids, and I love them. They are always able to point out and get to the point where, oh, because if you're buying something through your Amazon Alexa, if you speak about it positively, it is going to push those advertisements to you, right? So the tone is connected to purchase intention. So, yeah, I think people are shocked at actually because we don't read the terms of service, right? We don't read the terms of service. We don't read the privacy policies. And so these are all the things that actually are being collected about us every time we interact with technology.

You know, I always remember I had a high school economics professor who said the thing all economics professors say, which is like there's no such thing as a free lunch. And that's the same thing. There's no such thing as a free service. Because if you're not paying the product, yourself is the payment to use the service. And I don't think people realize that about social media is that, yes, it's free. but what you are paying is the cost of your information. And I do think it's easy to forget the nitty gritty granular level of that information. Your Alexa is such a good teaching tool because I talked about this stuff all day long and I'm like, oh yeah, it would be weird if my, if Amazon knew like, oh, looks, sounds like another bad morning for Bridget when she's talking to the Alexa.

Right. Oh, she doesn't like that. Maybe we should have recommend those things to her. Okay, so the big announcement is that TikTok is now going to be operated via the TikTok USDS joint venture. Fucking mouthful. What a mouthful? Yeah. So what exactly is that entity? Yes. So this is an entity that is made up and forgive me.

I may not have the exact statistics right. But roughly 45% it comes from three companies, Oracle, Silver Lake, and Abu Dhabi based M.G. I believe 30.1% was original bite dance. No, no, no, it was by dance. And then 19.9% was original by dance investors. And then there was a, up until yesterday, there was like an unnamed 5%. And I believe that unnamed 5%, I believe is the board with like Shaochu, the current TikTok CEO and some other hand-picked individuals. So that might be a stupid question.

did the government, like the White House, were they the ones who amassed this group of people? Yes. And I say that hesitantly because, yes, the U.S., when we look back at what happened and what led us here, right, TikTok was banned as part of the big bill that came through back in 2024. And I should note that the provision to ban TikTok

was folded into a much larger, international aid and military package. So I understand-ish, not really, but sure why politicians didn't vote against it because reasons, but that's a whole other podcast episode, you know, about that. So, and then it went through the courts. Supreme Court upholds it. Biden is leaving office and says, and literally kicks the can to Donald Trump and says, this is yours now, which I don't love. So then Trump says we're going to make a deal. And so, yes, I believe he had J.D. Vance, who was like the TikTok czar to, like, come up with this deal. And so the U.S. government did essentially help bring the players together.

So they may not have had an explicit hand, but they allowed these individuals to come together. And the deal had to be approved by the government to meet the terms and conditions set out in that military aid, international aid bill, that said TikTok could not operate in the United States. There was a time where Trump was talking about this and some elected officials were talking about this. Like it was the TikTok was the biggest threat to national security that we had. Then for a while it was like, oh, we can just push it. We can change the deadline. And it was like, what happened?

I thought this was like the biggest threat to our national security. I feel like we have been talking about this. I mean, I think since 2019, really. I think it really kicked in 2020. But I feel like I'm so over it. I'm honestly so over it. I thought we're still talking about it after all this time. But what I do think, yeah, is there has been some hypocrisy from both the Biden and the Trump administrations. Because I remember when the Biden administration passed that law or approved and signed the bill that this provision was in, they then went and had like the the Biden campaign when it was still Biden running or whatever, join TikTok. I was like, if this is such a threat, why are you having the president of the United States re-election campaign on TikTok? I don't get it. Make it make it make sense. And then I believe Alexandra Acacio-Cortez has even come out and said, like, we've received no briefing that says this is actually a threat. Yes. I remember that so clearly. And that's kind of, I mean,

I obviously care about national security risks and all of that. Of course. It really, showed to me, okay, this is about, you know, I think there was somebody who made a joke of like, China wants to have my data. Don't they know that's reserved for Mark Zuckerberg and other American tech company owners? Well, that's the thing. I stopped taking any of these conversations about data privacy seriously after Cambridge, the Cambridge Analytica data scandal happened in 2016, when a rogue Facebook app that like told you your IQ or something used a backdoor to get into people's profiles and access their friends profiles, that it was something I believe like almost 200 million, maybe 180 million people's data was compromised that was then sold to political

advertising firms in the United States. And I realized then I was like that no one cares. It's a matter of who has your data. That's really what people care about, is which political groups have your data, not actually that another country has your data. I just feel like if we really gave a shit about data and security and all that we would have some sort of meaningful, comprehensive data privacy legislation in this country and we don't. And so until that's the case, it is just very difficult for me to take any of these conversations seriously. I completely agree. And to any of your listeners in California, congratulations, they have more data privacy than the rest of us because that state actually did pass some laws. So, you know, if you're ever on a site shopping or whatever,

even in terms of service on social media, it says, like, if you live in California, click here, that's what that is, if you've ever wondered. Thank you for that. Yeah, I've heard people say like, oh, I'm going to get a VPN and just try to tell it I'm in California so I can enjoy a little bit of data privacy legislation. God, I wish, right?

So what exactly is in those new TikTok policies? Just breaks it down after this quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gagher. to Bob Odenkirk, to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. The worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group.

The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open to change. suggestion. We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. At our back. In the U.S., TikTok officially moved to American ownership on January 22nd, 2026. And since then, you might have seen a lot of pretty sensational

posts about what exactly this means. But Jess says it's really important to slow down and look at what's actually true, because a lot of the things that folks are reacting to now aren't really new. Many of these practices have already been happening, both on TikTok and other social media platforms, for quite some time. In other words, there are more or less normal platform policies, with some big exceptions that we will get into, even if, when you really think about it, the amount of data we give to social media companies has never really been all that normal in the first place. Okay, so one of the things that is that we have to. I like about how you've been breaking down these changes on TikTok is that you sort of helpfully

framed it as abnormal versus normal with the big caveat that stepping back in a kind of way, none of this is really normal. I really like that. How did you land on that framework? God, that's a great question. So, I mean, I think that's, it gets back to what you're saying to about like all the misinformation and sensationalism is that whenever there has been a change on TikTok, Like I remember like I see people being like oh if you block a certain company your algorithm returns to normal I'm like that's not how algorithms work. But again, the lack of education has gotten us to that point so I don't fault people for that. So whenever I try to make a video about this stuff, I try to debunk some stuff that seems to be kind of running uncontrolled. And so one of the things I first saw was people were like, oh my God, they're geolocating and like tracking us now. And I was like, I hate to break it to you, babes. That has been happening. for a long time from every social media platform ever. And this is, you should see the comments on my TikTok video.

It is a currently, people are fighting with each other immensely about how they think this stuff works. And I wish they wouldn't. I wish people would realize we all can learn a lot about how this stuff works. So that's my first step is like, okay, look. So there was some stuff updated about location tracking, but that's not new. And every social media platform does that. What is new, again, and I mentioned this in my social media post about this, is the government's closeness to this all.

And that is what also concerns me about tracking for demographic characteristics. Again, every social media platform tracks demographics. They track age, race, country of origin, ethnicity, sexuality, gender. They do make profiles about you based on what you do and what you post. This has been another question. I've gotten all in my comments. Like how would they know that? Well, if you say that about yourself in a post or in a video, that gets recorded about you into your secret profile over here that gets sold to advertisers. So again, that's nothing new. But what does concern me, again, is the closeness of the government, that this was a deal that was, again, brought together by the Trump administration, by this White House. And we don't know, again, the level of closeness or how close that goes moving forward.

So that really sounds like the kind of abnormal piece of this that, you know, collecting information about you. I'm so sorry to be the person to tell you, but it's been happening for a long time. At every social media platform, that is, quote, normal. Again, none of this is really normal, but like normal for social media platforms at this point. Great, great caveat that, yes, this is not normal and should not be normal, how much data they collect about you. but given that that has become our de facto normal, it is unfortunately normal. And two pieces of demographic information that I know TikTok has updated their policies to say that they collect are someone's gender status, like if they're trans or non-binary and their immigration status, is collecting that bit of information about people normal? Well, unfortunately, yes, actually.

Doing some research in the way back machine, TikTok has actually collected this data about people for years. unbeknownst to us. However, is that the big abnormal part is how the close relationship, how this deal came to be, the close relationship to the White House, and the fact specifically that this information is being put in the hands of a government that seeks to actively harm those people. I mean, we are seeing that across the country with anti-trans legislation, the absolutely horrific and despicable actions of ICE, and that deep, concerns me and I feel that is deeply abnormal for TikTok to have this information listed that says, hey, we track this about you and this now being controlled, you know, 15% by the company of Oracle and the Ellison's

who are very close and well-documented Trump supporters. Yeah, I don't know how to ask this or if it's even a question that you would be comfortable even like speaking to it all. But like, you know, The point of this show is to make tech accessible, but particularly amplify the voices and represent folks who are not often included in the conversation, right? So women, queer folks, trans folks, immigrants, all of that. And so if you had a loved one or were in close community with someone who, you know, was non-binary or trans or undocumented,

what would you tell? I want to be careful. And if people are wondering why I'm asking it this way, is that I want to be so careful to not be like, if you represent one of these groups, you no longer have a voice on this platform. You shouldn't, it's not safe for you to show up on this platform because that's so how our voices are erased and minimized

in these spaces already. A thousand percent. So like, what do we do with that? Like, how do we turn that into practical advice? Absolutely. So I'm really glad you asked that question, and I think you framed it beautifully. And that what I always tell my students to is it is a matter of personal comfort level,

right? I don't know someone's personal comfort level. to handle these issues. Does this give me pause? Yes. Does it, you know, absolutely. It absolutely gives me pause. And I would, and again, I don't want to ever tell anybody to get off social media

because I do think people deserve to see themselves and their stories represented online. And again, and if everybody runs off the platform, then again, the bullies win. And that's how tech stays white, cisgender, male. And that's not good. That's not good for anybody. So I would encourage people assess your own comfort level. That is something you know more intimately than I do. Be careful, right? Like always be smart. Always be careful. And I do think that, you know, you can also take a step back without leaving forever. I do that in my own line of work as well. Sometimes it just gets really overwhelming to be online for whatever reason. And I think being able to take a step back and say, hey, this is not for me right now. And I'm going to wait until I know more to see how things play out. out, I think that is smart, right? I think a healthy dose of caution is really good moving forward. But of course, I'm aware I am also saying this as a white woman who has immense privilege. I also have the privilege of academic freedom, even though with all the attacks in the United

States to kind of hide behind that shield to make these critiques. So just so I hope everyone keeps that in mind. And as I listened to this, that you know your own comfort level better than I do. If we all do run away, the bullies win. And it becomes an even bigger assessment. pool. But we also have to be smart and safe in these very, very, very awful times. Yeah. Oh, God, you said it. Like, I, there was a time where Twitter was my most used social media platform. Now, I mean, I still have an account, but my, my pin tweet. Same. I have, my bio says, please see pin tweet. And my pin tweet is like, I'm not really here anymore. And same here. Yeah. And it just, I, I, in the scheme of things, big deep.

but it is sort of like, I'm just so sick of getting pushed out of these corners of the internet that we, that we, you know, carved out for ourselves. And not to say that old Twitter was perfect. I was like, I had a lot of complaints about it too. But I just, I'm so sick of sort of this handful of billionaires with some of the most odious people taking over more and more and more of our internet landscape.

And it just, I don't even have a question. It's just, it's, I'm really sick of it. I am the same way. I also, I mean, I was also extremely active on Twitter. And I stayed for a long time, even after Elon Musk ran it into the ground and made it more of a cesspool. And it was the Charlie Kirk shooting that made me, I was like, I'm done. I'm done with this site. But I do. Yeah. I hate that too. I'm like, fuck you. Stop ruining my platforms, basically. I, because I think, I don't know. I don't know. You know, I don't know what I think there. I think that the, the, you know, These are spaces where we all build such good communities and we build such wonderful things. And it shows us just how precarious that is and how it is built on sand. And that poor business decisions or rather maybe not even poor business decisions, but very deliberate business decisions that are at odds with how people actually use social media can ruin them. And I hate it.

I hate keep having to rebuild platforms in new places. I hate keep telling people, find me here, find me here, because it feels like we're all just chasing each other around a school yard now with no kind of rhyme or reason, trying to find each other, trying to play tag to some extent. And it's just, it's incredibly frustrating. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriters, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group? The worst?

Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard.

But they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle aged. One erection Listen to humor me with Robert Smygel and Friends On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me

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I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live there. them. Listen to Sports Slice on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's get right back into it. So you might have seen that people are doing this 2016 throwback trend on social media right now. And when I think back to 2016, what I remember most is how angry I felt. I was angry watching folks get killed in the street. angry watching abusers not just get away with it, but a mass power. But it wasn't just me, that anger was everywhere, and it's part of what helped spark movements like Black Lives Matter and Me Too. Those movements gave people a way to take that anger and turn it into something meaningful.

Social media made it possible for people to find each other, to realize that you didn't have to be alone in that anger. You could channel it into something that felt like real change. There was this feeling that other people felt the way that you did, and together using the internet, you could actually build something. But now, 10 years later, when I scroll social media, I don't know that I really feel that anymore. Instead, I feel overwhelmed and also weirdly disengaged at the same time. Like, I'm just screaming about my rage and also dwelling in it.

And I don't think that's an accident, because billionaires like Elon Musk and Larry Ellison, TikTok's new owner, didn't just buy up pieces of our digital media landscape at random. They understood how powerful these platforms were, how good they were at building real power, and just how important it would be to control them. I think especially right now against the backdrop of the very stuff that you were describing earlier of communities that are really under attack right now, immigrants, trans folks, pure folks. I think back to a time where these platforms were places that you could build a voice and build real political and social power. Like I don't have access to publishing an op-ed in the New York Times. However, I might be able to get enough Twitter followers. And I think about like all the different movements that were started on social media.

Me Too. Black Lives Matter. I wonder if part of the reason why everything feels especially awful right now was because those platforms have been so overtaken by these people. And they've been tweaked in ways that make finding that voice easy. and we're just sort of scrambling not, I mean, I'm speaking for myself, I'm sure there are people out there that are still using those tools to build power and shout out to them. I'm speaking very much about how I feel. I feel like I have so much less of an understanding of like, what are we all doing? How do we organize online? Like, where are we going? Who's starting the hashtag? Whatever. I should say I'm pretty tapped in in my own neighborhood and community with offline actions, IRL. So I know that online actions are not like the end all be all. But I guess what I'm saying is the climate online.

just feels so different than it did 10 years ago. And it just feels terrible. It does. And I do think that this is partially by design, right? That there was a lot of grassroots power that came from social media in the 2010s. I mean, I'm thinking back to even like the Arab Spring back in like 2010 when I, you know, a bunch of Middle Eastern countries

were able to kind of like push back on their political regimes through social media and we're able to kind of circumvent the government. through social media. And I do think, you know, again, there was a lot of good grassroots stuff. Like you said, me too. I'm just building collectives, finding like-minded people refusing to shut up, right? And we had that power. And I think that scares a lot of people that that grassroots power.

Yet at the same time, I do want to, I always caution against internet nostalgia because, like, the internet was never good, right? you know, I was like really harassed on Twitter for the first time. I remember in like 2015, like people were like tweeting about my account and being like, go bother her. She's like a stupid feminist PhD student. How dare you say feminist stuff on the internet, right? So it's never been good. But I will say my optimistic take, I actually do have an optimistic take in all of this, is that we are currently in a moment that is the backlash to that utopian grassroots power of social media of the 2010s, where a bunch of people are not happy with how marginalized individuals were able to get voice in power.

I see that, you know, we're very much in a backlash to me too. We're very much in a backlash to body positivity, right? With like skinny talk and I hate to say, GLP-1s and all these things. So we are currently in a pushback moment. but the pendulum always swings back. And so I do believe, I don't know when, I can't tell you when it's going to happen. And that is, of course, a rather optimistic take because I know some people don't make it to where the pendulum swings back, but the pendulum does swing back. And that is the one thing I do think about when I'm able to see how it has swung and swung back before that I know we'll be there again.

It just may take some time. So you're optimistic about this? I kind of have to be because through all the horror and all how awful things are and doing what I do for a living, I would go crazy if I didn't have a sliver of optimism. Because I mean, I average like 15 hours of screen time a day because I do this for a living, right? My research is on social media. I'm connecting with people. I'm watching trends. I'm watching posts. So yeah, it's absurd how much screen time I have a day. So I actually, but I have to. to actively choose to be optimistic because, man, it is really hard to sometimes. So, but I try. How do you balance, you know, this is your work, your body of academic study. How do you balance

the need to be online, which like, don't I know it can be a slog with like, you know, having a healthy outlook on things? How do you balance that? Yeah. No, that's a great question. And it's one, I don't think I'm perfect at by any means, but I'm a big believer in like folders and bookmarks. So if I'm having like my bed rot time at night and I'm like scrolling threads and I see something, I'm like, oh, that tickles something in my academic brain. It goes into a bookmark and then I look at it in business hours again. So I'm not constantly thinking about. I also do a good, I try to do a good job of curating my algorithms. So right now it's all heated rivalry. And it's just, it's so fun and it just makes me happy. So I try to do sometimes I'll like also like on TikTok, I'll be like, oh God, I'm getting too much like work stuff. And then I go and search just like dogs. And I like let my algorithm know I want to see all the TikTok pets. And then I just get watch your TikTok pets. And it's, it's great. So it's very deliberate. I joke, you know,

like my screen time and all of this is like my occupational hazard of, I just have to be online all the time. I would never advocate for anybody to be online as much as I am online. But yeah, because it's hard, especially making content myself. That is really where you see some of the worst of people. People really hate my glasses. If you're listening to this, in Cincinnati's social media preview, I have very thick black glasses that I love.

I think they're a statement to my face, but people on TikTok hate them. I frequently am just like told I'm the ugliest. person alive or that like my somebody called my glasses birth control glasses um so and so like some girl even went so far one time to like start sending me glasses I should buy instead um so it's hard it is very and honestly like becoming a creator myself as opposed to just being an academic like I'm like oh this is kind of terrible sometimes what made you want to take that leap to be like I'm going to be somebody who has an academic perspective and a body of research on social media but also a a public-based and creator.

Ah, God. That's a good question. And sometimes I'm like, maybe I should just quit. No, I should just quit. I've always been really public about my work. I don't believe knowledge lives in an ivory tower, or at least it shouldn't. To me, that's my view on it. So even on Twitter, I was always very public. I kind of went viral for the first time to talk about Bamar Rush Talk, because before my current job, I was a professor at the University of Alabama for seven years. So I knew that phenomenon very well. So that kind of, I was already doing a lot of media and then that phenomenon, like, tweeting about that, like, pushed me into a whole other level. TikTok, I have a distinct memory of downloading TikTok at the start of the pandemic like everybody else and telling my husband I will be making videos by the time this is over. Sure enough, I was. But I think probably maybe 22 or 23, I really started making videos in earnest. Just as like, you know, I have something to say and I have a perspective that isn't in the conversation.

And this is where people are. And if I believe knowledge should be public, I got to go where they're. people are. And also, it's just nice to have somebody who genuinely knows what they're talking about on these platforms in these spaces educating people because like it's, I think there's something about tech and we were sort of getting at this earlier where it is intentionally legalese, intentionally so long so that people automatically see this and they're like, I'm not reading this. Or worse, they think like I'm not a tech person. I what do I know about all this? I'll just hit except and I'll never think about it again. And I think the work that of people like you being on these platforms having,

you know, accessible conversations about this, it is really bringing so many people in who I think they intentionally want locked out. I hope so. I really hope so. You know, somebody even asked me in a comment on my video earlier today. They're like, are like, are you worried you're going to be like band? I'm like, girl, I'm banned all the time. I'm shadow, or not, not essentially, but I'm shadow banned all the time. Whenever I critique, so I was always shadow banned on Twitter for Christian. Even before Elon Musk, before I'm critiquing Twitter, I have been shadow banned on reels. I have been shadow banned on TikTok. So I'm like, this is just another day in my life.

This is being banned by these platforms. Let me ask you this. Do you see these changes at TikTok? Like, I'm often loathe to have these conversations in ways that are framed as like, like, what does this mean for the business or whatever, whatever? But I have seen so many people vocally talking about how they're going to, they're not, they're never logging into TikTok again. How do you see this impacting the platform long term? TikTok has made some really interesting moves this week that I, and I don't think they're worried at all.

So first and foremost, they launched a new micro-drama platform. Oh, God, it's called Pine Something. I can't remember what it's called right now. But so they are now moving into original entertainment content. They have been, they have had a huge showing at Sundance out of Park City, Utah right now, where they are really promoting entertainment-first advertising and marketing on the platform. And they have also really been pushing a lot of e-commerce decisions this week.

So I don't think TikTok's worried at all, unfortunately. I do think that to me I see TikTok moving in the way of an Amazon, because also if we look at what TikTok is outside of the United States, we look at its sister app, Duyan, which does operate in China. it is e-commerce first. So I really see TikTok leaning into e-commerce and entertainment, which to me feels like they are fighting Amazon. They are gunning to be the next Amazon, and they have something Amazon doesn't, which is a social media platform of content creators. I'm waiting for Amazon to get their own content creator platform, by the way. That is one thing I'm waiting for. It hasn't happened yet,

but I'm waiting for it. And so I don't see TikTok that worried. And I think it kind of goes back to, again, our complacency, again, even my own. I don't read these things most of the time myself, where a lot of people are going to delete their accounts today. I do think there won't be a dip. A lot of people will log off, but we'll come back. And me, I'm everywhere until the lights go off for the most part, or until it becomes pretty untenable to be on like it was with Twitter.

So unfortunately, I don't see too much changing for TikTok. I actually think I see them getting more. power, not less. Oh, I, how do I wish, I wish that you had been like, oh, it's cartons for TikTok, but deep down, I knew, deep down I knew you were going to say that. I haven't, I mean, there was a time, especially in like the height of COVID when TikTok and me, like I was a little bit of a late adopter to TikTok and there was a time where it was the platform where I was spending the most time. And the thing that got me off of it, and I really, it kind of broke the habit, was when TikTok was briefly,

I guess I'll put it in quotes, banned, and then they came back and it was like, they had that little thing that was like, thank you to the Trump administration for bringing you. That shit was too cute by a mile for me. And literally that, for me personally, that was the day the vibe shifted.

I was like, I, I, and here too, for I had kind of like, cautiously respected the CEO of TikTok because I was like, oh, he's a younger guy. I appreciated his comments. when he was all in front of Congress. Like, I, I, this is, like, I'm hearing myself say this. And I'm like, this is exactly why you should never start having warm, fuzzy feelings for a tech leader.

But, yeah, that really just shifted the vibe. And I never got it back after that. I know. I distinctly remember that as well. And that was the dumbest 14 hours in American social media history. I mean, it was so dumb. I was so mad. And not even because I thought I was going to go away.

I was just like, this is all, to me, it was all performative and unnecessary. And, yeah, when I got that message, too, that was like, thank you to President Trump. I said, there's going to be a deal. They're going to figure it out. But I'm not going to like what happens on the other side of it. And again, so, I mean, the kind of updates that have been implemented, even though, again, they're not necessarily abnormal. They are abnormal because I don't want. like this presidential administration being this close to a social media company.

Very, very succinct summary. I guess one of my last questions for you, but you still have answered it. Will you still use TikTok? You're not going to, you're not being like, I'm deleting it. Yeah, I will be there. I'll be there for a while. I mean, over the past couple weeks, I've already tried to migrate a little bit more to reels and breads just because I didn't know what was going to happen to TikTok moving forward. Again, I will be there for a little while, especially because it was kind of this way with Twitter, too. As an academic, I have colleagues all over the world. And so sometimes those are places to connect with them as opposed to other social media platforms.

Because we have to remember, the rest of the world is having a very different TikTok experience now. It's fine for them. I'm jealous. I hope they adopt me. I'm kidding. I love my, I love where I am. So yeah, I'll be there for a while. I think there, you know, I'll keep talking and trying to explain things until I'm so shadow banned or actually banned that I can't do it anymore.

But I'm so sad. I love my TikTok platform. I like, it's been so fun. And I teach a content creation class too to college undergrad. And so I also feel like for teaching lies I need to be there. So we'll see what happens. Well, for folks who are deleting their app or thinking about deleting their app, where can folks keep up with you just across this disparate internet landscape that we now have? Absolutely. I am on threads and Instagram as Jess Maddox 21. I'm on substack at, by the way, BTW social. And I am on Blue Sky at justmatics. vsky.com.

Jess, thank you so much for being here. This has been a delight. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you for breaking it down. Yeah, thanks for having me. And I hope everybody makes smart and good social media decisions for themselves. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoity.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoity. There are No Girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative.

Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going?

On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. and we're going straight to the source the athletes themselves,

their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12

in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way,

the podcast's superhuman. Human documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.