There Are No Girls on the Internet - Tom Holland should speak up in Romeo + Juliet harassment; Eclipse 2024!; No politics on Instagram?; Fake podcasts exposed! – NEWS ROUNDUP

Episode Date: April 13, 2024

Romeo & Juliet theatre star suffers ‘barrage’ of online racial abuse: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/05/romeo-juliet-theatre-star-suffers-barrage-of-online-racial-abuse Tom Holland Urged to Speak Out After Nearly 900 Black Actors Condemn Racial Abuse of Romeo & Juliet Star Francesca Amewudah-Rivers: https://www.teenvogue.com/story/tom-holland-racial-abuse-romeo-and-juliet-francesca-amewudah-rivers ‘AI Instagram Influencers’ Are Deepfaking Their Faces Onto Real Women’s Bodies: https://www.404media.co/ai-influencers-are-deepfaking-their-faces-onto-real-womens-bodies/  Instagram to Blur Out Nude Images Sent to Teens in DMs: https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/instagram-nudes-teens-dms-1235967659/ Content creators ask Meta to reverse politics limits on Instagram, Threads: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/04/10/politics-instagram-threads-limits/  How to opt into political content on IG (from Verge): https://www.theverge.com/24117988/threads-instagram-politics-how-to Actors Are Making Thousands of Dollars Through Fake Video Podcast Ads: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-04-11/actors-are-making-thousands-of-dollars-through-fake-video-podcast-ads?embedded-checkout=true See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Welcome to There Are No Girls on the Internet, where we explore the intersection of technology, social media, the Internet, and identity. And this is another installment of our weekly News Roundup, where we're rounding up some of the stories that happened online that you might have missed this week. Mike, thank you for being here. Bridget, thanks for having me.

Always a pleasure to be here. I should say, I am still in Mazatlan, Mexico, where I traveled to see the eclipse. When I recorded the News Roundup with Joey the previous week, I had not. yet seen the eclipse. Now I have seen the eclipse. I feel that everything has changed. It's like do you remember corn kid where he says when I tried corn with butter, everything changed? When I saw the eclipse in totality, everything changed. This is like you're putting butter on corn. Amazing. So where were you when you saw it? I was out on the beach. You know, I had these like very complicated plans to take a ferry to a small island and then hike up a little area. And then I was

like, let's just go to the beach. It felt like the whole city of Mothalon came out to the beach to see it. I have never experienced totality. And for a really long time, everybody in my life had been telling me, like, oh, totality is amazing. Like, it's going to change your life. Like, blah, blah, blah. I was like, oh, well, I've seen it from my office in Eclipse classes from like downtown in Washington, D.C., is that not the same thing? And people are like, no. And I always felt a little bit raw about it, if I'm being honest. My, I did not know this, but my father is an eclipse chaser. And I only learned that when I tried to say that I experienced an eclipse in a partial eclipse in D.C.

And he was like, no, you haven't. If you haven't been in totality, you haven't experienced shit. Yeah, totality really. But he was right. He's right. I mean, he didn't have to say so rudely, but totality really is a whole different thing. You know, somebody described being. in 99% eclipse as like driving 99% of the way to Disney World.

And I feel that's like a good description, right? Like unless you actually get all the way there, you're not experiencing it. Yeah, the eclipse was beautiful. It was sublime. Can't wait for the next one. Did you see this thing where there was like eclipse backlash? I'm not just talking about all the different wacky conspiracy theories that people said the eclipse was going to trigger, which obviously that's bunk.

I mean, reasonable people who were like, stop being excited about the eclipse. Like, you don't have, you, I'm not going to be pressured into caring about this eclipse. Did you see any of that? I did. And I found it super baffling and sort of, like, disappointing about society. Yeah, it was like a whole category of content of people, uh, expressing anti-eclapse sentiment. Like, don't be excited about it. It's not that great.

Uh, who cares? And then even after the eclipse, I've seen some content that was, like, framed that way with, like, click-baity headlines about, what was the headline that I saw this morning, just this morning? Somebody was, like, complaining about the eclipse because, and then you got into the article, and they were like, it was so beautiful that now I don't know what to do with myself. But the headline was like clickbaity and anti-eclips. And so it's just, I don't know, it's like, can't we have anything nice where we just feel good about something? Well, that's my thing is that post-Eclipse, I'm actually feeling a lot of, for lack of a better phrase, childlike wonder. Like I think like being around all these people who just wanted to marvel at this celestial magic thing that happened in the sky. And I don't know, it felt like a whole day or people got to be excited about something that's pure and good and just like, I don't know, reading about how the only reason why we get eclipses is because like the sun and the moon happen to be the same size. Is that right?

Yeah, I mean, it is kind of like, I want to say magical. Magic isn't the word. But yeah, like the same. sizes are, it seems like quite a coincidence that the sizes are so aligned the way that they are, considering how far apart these objects are. Yeah. And I just think that's nice that it's this like coincidental thing that we as humans just get to experience and how lucky for us. And yeah, we should have more things that are just purely about Marvel, for Marvel's sake, and looking up at the sky and wonder. We don't get a lot of opportunities for childlike wonder. collectively. So I'm still feeling the warm fuzzies from it, I guess. But I should also say that because I'm in Mexico still, I am still really close to a beach where there are roaming bands, which I learned

actually, they're called Banda bands. And Mazatlan Mexico is the place where that tradition of like playing music on the beach and like wandering around, this is the hometown of that tradition. So go Mazatlan Mexico. But you might hear a little bit of jubilation. in the background, that's what I'm saying. All right, that's pretty cool. I like the idea of roving bands of musicians traveling up and down the beach. Going back to that, like, childlike wonder at the beauty of nature and the universe, I think that's sort of what that anti-eclips article I read this morning was, like,

pushing back again for complaining about because, you know, they had experienced it during this brief, sublimely beautiful moment, and then it passed. and the author almost sounded like mad that now they had to go back to their normal humdrum life and they struggled to remember what it had been like during totality. And, you know, I just think anger at the eclipse is one path a person could take to, like, deal with those feelings. another path could be to try to seek out opportunities to marvel at the world more regularly, right? Like, our lives don't have to be soul-crushing brines. We can look up and wonder every now and again.

Sounds like somebody's in the pocket of big eclipse, Mike. Yeah, I'll admit it. I'm on the dole for big eclipse. Well, speaking of soul-crushing, not everything is. childlike wonder. And this is something that I've been experiencing a childlike sense of rage and infuriation, I guess I might say. Yeah, I guess children really do like, whatever they're feeling, they just really feel it intensely. Yeah. So what do you feel in childlike rage about, Brigitte? So Francesca Amalouda Rivers is an actor who was cast as Juliet

in an upcoming London West End production of Romeo and Juliet, alongside Tom Holland, who you might know from those Spider-Man movies, or datings and Dendaya alongside him as Romeo. So the entire production is pretty racially diverse. But because Francesca is a dark-skinned black woman, that means that her being cast as Juliet has led to this torrent of racist, sexist, online abuse. People saying she's too ugly and too black to be a beautiful Juliet figure and that her casting is, quote, woke and that she did not deserve the role. So the Jamie Lloyd Company, which is the company behind the production, put out a statement saying, following the announcement of our Romeo and Juliet cast,

there has been a barrage of deplorable racial abuse online directed toward a member of our company. This must stop. We are working with a remarkable group of artists. We insist they are free to create work without facing online harassment. Jamie Lloyd, the director of the company, said that it would continue to support and protect everyone at our company at all costs. Any abuse will not be tolerated and will be reported.

Bullying and harassment have no place online in our industry or in our wider communities. I will say this statement is good. Like something that I say again and again on this show is that when somebody is being targeted in this way, you need to show clear, unambiguous support. You need to have a plan in place for what you will do. And you need to make sure that there is no confusion about where you stand and how you are supporting the person targeted. So the fact that the Jamie Lloyd company didn't ignore it, spoke to what was happening right away in very clear terms. This is how I think that organizations and industries should be reacting when somebody is targeted in this way. Luckily, if there is one thing that black women are going to do, it is support each other.

More than 800 predominantly black women and non-binary actors signed on to an open letter in solidarity with Francesca. The letter was organized by Enola Holmes actor Susan Wakoma and writer Somalia Nanyi Seton. And the letter really has two kind of important bits. one, just generally supporting Francesca, and two, pointing out that this kind of thing, these kind of racist attacks and harassment, happened to black performers all the time. The letter reads, When news of Francesca's casting and Jamie Lloyd's production of Romeo and Juliet was announced, so many people celebrated and welcomed this news,

many of us took to social media to shower our baby sis with love and congratulations, a huge deal for someone so young in their career, a huge rising talent. But then what followed was a too familiar, horror that many of us visible black dark skin performers have experienced. The racist and misogynistic abuse directed at such a sweet soul has been too much to bear. For a casting announcement of a play to ignite such twisted, ugly abuse is truly embarrassing for those so empty and barren in their own lives that they must meddle in hateful abuse. Also, that is a read. Like somebody had time when they wrote this letter. So they really drill in on one of my sticking points that in a lot of

cases when this kind of thing happens, the people in charge just kind of do nothing. They don't put out a statement. They maybe hope it'll blow over. Maybe they're privately supporting the person targeted, but like they're not communicating that to the public. And that is, that doesn't work. The letter reads, too many times theater companies, broadcasters, producers, and streamers have failed to offer any help or support when their black artists face racist or misogynistic abuse. Reporting is too often left on the shoulders of the abused who are then expected to promote said show, which I think it's also like a really good point. Like it is a racism and sexism issue to be sure, like an identity issue, but it's also just like a workplace equity issue, right? Like she is

meant to promote this project on social media that she is a part of, which will only lead to more of the abuse that she is already shouldering. And so it's not an equitable situation. If like, yeah, you're going to be in this play, you need to promote this play on social media. But in order to do that, you just have to individually shoulder this kind of unacceptable racist and sexist harassment that other people in your production are not having to deal with. It's not equitable. Yeah, and not just shoulder,

you know, it's not just abuse, but it's coordinated abuse, right? Like, people across the internet coordinating to target one particular performer. And, like, of course that's going to be, like, too much for one person to take on. Of course, people, you know, facing that sort of vast,

network of international bigots needs some institutional support to help hold them up. Yes, the letter really speaks to that in a beautiful way. They write, we want to send a clear message to Francesca and all black women performers who face this kind of abuse. We see you. We see the art you managed to produce with not only the pressures that your white colleagues face, but with the added traumatic hurdle of misogy noir. We are so excited to watch you shine. So we should talk about what's going on here. One is that I've seen a lot of people say, like, oh, well, I'm not, I don't have a problem

with her that she's black. I have a problem with her is that she's not beautiful. Juliet is meant to be beautiful. She's meant to be beautiful enough to have, you know, Romeo go against his family to be with her. I'm not saying it's a problem because she's a black woman. I'm saying it's a problem because she's not beautiful. So I think there's like a really specific, racially coded thing happening here that

I can tell you quite a bit about as a black woman with dark skin, you know, people saying that, oh, well, it's that she's not attractive and Juliet should be attractive. Saying that it's not a race issue, it's an attractiveness issue, it can be such a deeply coded, like racially coded claim, especially when you're talking about a darker skin black woman with like thick hair and, you know, like, like, I just have heard that my whole life that it's like, oh, well, it's not a race thing. It's just like, you're not pretty because you're a black woman. It's like, well, that does not look a race thing to me. Yeah, and I mean, there are few things more subjective than beauty. Yes, and it's like the fact that these people could say like, oh, I'm just talking about beauty standards,

the fact that they could try to conveniently divorce all of that from race, from the fact that we live in a white supremacist society, you know, Eurocentric beauty standards, like all of that. It's like, I don't know, it's like playing in my face. Like it's very clear what's going on, but they don't want to just say what's going on. So they're like, oh, no, no, no, no, it's not about race. I just don't believe that anybody would ever find a black woman attractive. Yeah, and I truly wonder how many of them are, you know, saying it's about beauty as an intentional way to, like, hide the racism that they know that they have within them. Versus, like, how many are just so unself-critical and unreflective that they don't see what's going on in their own head?

that almost is like sadder, I think, for somebody to live such an uncritical life that they would not realize that, right? I don't know. Maybe that's a dumb point. No, I don't think it's a dumb point. So I spent a lot of time digging into what people who are behind this harassment are saying. And I think that you're right. It's clear to me that these are not people who are thinking very deeply about the things that they're saying. the things that they are claiming to feel about this person and why they're making such a big deal of it,

I don't think that they're really analyzing that too deeply. And so I bet these people do think it's not about race and that like spending a lot of energy and time to talk about whether or not they think this black woman, Juliet, is pretty enough for a production that they probably would never see is normal behavior. I don't think that they're looking at their behavior in any kind of like critical lens.

Yeah. Because you bring up another good point. Why do they care? Right? Like how many of these people are going to travel to London's West End to take in this Shakespeare production? Okay. So I have been racking my brain trying to figure this out and figure out like what's going on with this. And I think something really particular is happening here.

So anybody listening who is into theater, particularly Shakespeare, y'all know that diverse casting, And I'm talking diverse with regard to race and gender is pretty common in Shakespeare productions. Like, you could see every iteration of race and gender identity in Shakespeare plays if you wanted. Like, diverse casting has been anything for a while, for generations when it comes to Shakespeare, right? But I think that because people are hearing that Tom Holland is in this particular production, they are thinking, like, oh, Tom Holland, he is a movie star, right? Like he was Spider-Man in six Marvel Cinematic Universe superhero movies. So I think that they think this is a movie that is going to be on in the theaters, right? I think that they see Tom Holland, Romeo and Juliet.

They are making a Romeo and Juliet movie. They do not realize that this is a theatrical production wherein diverse casting is like commonplace and has been for a really long time. They think it's a film. And so they're like, oh, it's just a woke Romeo and Juliet, you know, just like all the other times. where these kinds of people are like, oh, superhero movies have gotten so woke. They've ruined superhero movies with their diverse casting and their women and their people of color, right? So I think that's what they think is going on because that's the only frame of reference they have. Let's just cut the shit.

These people don't know anything about theater. That is like very clear to me. These are not people who go to the theater. These are not people who have any frame of reference for what is or is not commonplace in theater. They just don't know, right? So they're not only racist and sexist, but they're also philosophies. Like when I was researching this, I saw this very angry post that was like performing pretty well in the Jordan Peterson subreddit. The post reads, why do we let woke moralists steal our classic stories of the Western tradition? We have no way to know if this black person was included for a reason besides capitulating to the wokes and virtue signaling, which I will pause there because Romeo and Juliet is a play about two. warring families who have deep divisions. Like you really can't think of another reason why you might

cast a black person in a role about a production about deep divisions. You can't think of any reason why that might make narrative sense within the play other than just like virtue signaling and being woke. Well, and the statement, like, we have no way to know if this black person was included for a reason besides capitulating. Like, every casting decision needs to be like super justified? Like, what do you mean you have no way to know? Like, what business is it of yours? Well, he closes that comment with, this is a story which has defined romantic love for generations. And now will be just another example of, dun, dun, done, anti-white racism. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. How is an interracial couple falling in love anti-white racism?

No, it's just, it's so stupid. Like, trying to, like logically pick apart the internet writings of an imbecile. I completely agree. And I don't know how these people would feel about the fact that in Shakespeare's day, the characters that are women would probably be played by men in drag. I'm curious how that hits them. Yeah, right. This is like, what does he say?

Like the classic story of the Western tradition. Yeah, it was like two dudes making out on stage. Is that what he about the scene? Something tells me he wouldn't appreciate that either. So the top comment on that Jordan Peterson Reddit thread is, wow, looks like another box office bust, like kind of a reference to that idea of like go woke, go broke, that when Hollywood makes movies that feature diverse cast that like they're going woke

and that people aren't going to support that. Now, never mind that this particular production of Romeo and Juliet actually sold out within hours. But again, it is not a movie. Like another box office bust. What are you talking about? These people don't even know what they're mad about. No, they're just, what are they mad about, right? And like, like, clearly they're mad about something.

How sad that they have to direct it at this, like, young woman, right? Like, can't they find anything more productive to direct that childlike rage at? I will say this, though. Like, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm speculating on celebrities because, that's not what I like to do. But in the fact that so many other actors, mostly black women actors and non-binary black actors, are speaking up for Francesca in that open letter, I'm a little bit surprised that we have not heard Tom Holland speaking up for her. You know, they are co-stars. He is the Romeo to her Juliet. It's entirely possible that maybe he's supporting her privately,

which would be nice. But again, I do think that loud, clear public support is the only thing that works in situations like these, right? And I think especially for somebody like Tom Holland, who is the face of this big Marvel Cinematic Universe Spider-Man franchise, you know, certainly like a battlefield for, you know, people who get angry about seeing black people or women or people of color in their movies, I think having somebody like Tom Holland be like, no, you know, this kind of racist, sexist abuse will not be tolerated. You're not going to do this in our name. You're not going to, like, we don't want to see this as creatives and as storytellers and we don't like it. I think that would go a long way toward creating the conditions where

this kind of thing would not be commonplace. And I guess I say that to say that I don't think it should just be on the other black actors, like the black actors who organize that letter to support Francesca, I think that's great, but it shouldn't just be on them to create a working environment free from this kind of abuse. Everybody should want a workplace where people can just do the jobs that they are hired to do without being harassed for it, right? That benefits everybody, not just people of color, not just traditionally marginalized people. I'm sure Tom Holland wants a kind of working environment where that kind of thing is not commonplace. Who wouldn't? And I just think it's just another unfair, unpaid burden that black women actors are being made to shoulder.

to get us there, right? Like, this is not a system that we created. This is not a system that is benefiting us. However, it seems to be on us to be doing the work to fix that system and to get us to a place where this kind of abuse is not commonplace. And yeah, I just, I would like, it's like when you are being targeted or harassed at work, that is already a, so you have to do your job. Then you have to shoulder this abuse.

And then you have to, like, be the one that's also doing all the organizing to create the conditions to not have that abuse be commonplace, it's too much. And I just think that for somebody like Tom Holland, who certainly has a lot of privilege as a white male superhero actor, I think he could spend a little bit of that privilege getting us, getting us to a better system a little bit. Not to mention the fact that he is in an interracial relationship. He's in a relationship with Zendaya, somebody who I really like because she is really open about the fact that, you know, as a lighter-skinned black woman with like long hair, the kind of privilege that comes along with.

And so he's in a relationship with somebody who intentionally does a lot of public speaking about the very things that Francesca is dealing with. And yeah, I just think that we, I wouldn't mind hearing from him. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman. help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst in the group. The worst? Yeah. Me.

Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open to change. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open.

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And we're back. So we have talked a lot about how AI is being used to exploit women's bodies to basically make men rich. And this new 404 media report is exactly what I mean. AI-generated adult content creators are stealing from actual human adult content creators. This is all from a deeply reported 404 Media piece that we will link in the show notes. It is a really good read. This is one of those stories that I definitely recommend reading the whole thing. The piece says, people running Instagram accounts for AI generated influencers and nude models

are downloading popular Instagram reels of real models and sex workers, deep faking the AI models face onto them, and then using the altered videos to promote paid subscriptions to the AI generated models accounts on only fans or other competitor sites. In some cases, these AI-generated models have amassed hundreds of thousands of Instagram followers using almost exclusively stolen content. So it is a pretty messed up situation. And it's even more messed up when you think about the fact that human sex workers and adult content creators are often really harshly moderated on the internet. And so while those human content creators are sort of marginalized and push to the sides on the internet, here we have these AI-generated adult content creators stealing from those social. humans and showing up online. It is really uncanny. Like, it will be the exact same video,

but with an AI-generated fake influencers head, like, swapped into that human's body. Like, I actually had to really look to see the difference between some of these real humans video and the version that puts an AI-generated contact creator onto her face. This sounds like a fun house mirror situation of what we have talked about several times with NUify apps, where, you know, in the past, people were using these apps to put celebrities and real humans' faces onto AI-generated bodies. And now these scammers and bad actors have found a way to do the opposite thing of putting AI-generated faces on human bodies. It was just like no end to the ways that people can use AI to steal from women. it's all scams and sexual exploitation the whole way down.

And I think you're exactly right. Like we talk a ton about what deep fakes means for celebrities, but this is going to show it is not just celebrities who are being targeted here. We're talking about ordinary women whose bodies are being used without their consent. Like the labor and the content that these women are making is being stolen from them to make somebody else money. And more disturbingly, 404Media also found that there are very detailed instructions on how to do this on YouTube, where they recommend stealing reels on Instagram specifically from small creators and small accounts to avoid detection. In one of these instructional videos, they say, it's a fact that faceless only fans accounts earn three times less than once with a face. This opens up a lot of possibilities for people to start earning more in different ways imaginable.

And now it's up to you. Build your own AI influencer and start monetizing your swaps. Grow your social media accounts. Get an account, start an only band and make it rain. So I will say something else is that this is like explicitly a money-making enterprise wherein men feel like they are like turning the tables on women who make adult content. Like there's a real disdain that these men feel for women who sex workers or women who make adult content. Like that is very clear. And I think, that comments make very clear that like this is a thing where men feel like women have been exercising economic agency over their own content, over their own bodies, over their sexuality, and they want to like turn the tables on them. Like in one of those YouTube instructional videos, the comments make clear that the viewers of that content think that this is like a big development for men on the internet. One comment says, can finally take all the sims money while being a male, so comfy. Another one says, this may just be the end of influencers and the constant quest for internet fame and vanity. Love this. So it's like when you when you really peel that apart,

why are these men so mad about influencers, about women showing their bodies on the internet, like and making money from that? Like, why are they, it's like they're, they clearly have a lot of disdain for the women who are doing this. And it kind of conveniently leaves out the fact that like, it is men who are consuming that adult content. So it's like, if anything, they should be mad at themselves. It's this weird combination of like lust and disgust, where it's like, I want to consume this, but I also am disgusted by this and I want to shame her for making me want this. Like, you know what I'm saying?

I think it reveals its very weird tension. Yeah, it's like a twisted logic, unlike the previous story where, you know, it was just the nonsensical logic of an imbecile. Here it's like a twisted logic of, yeah, hating women and also being, like, strangely jealous of them. Yeah, it does not seem like the behavior or the statements of healthy, well-adjusted men. That's definitely one way to put it. And I do think it's like, I think that what they hate is this idea that women have been able to, exercise economic agency and they feel like because the people who are consuming this content are

largely men that like men are being fleeced into giving money to like human women who make only bands content or whatever and it's like they it's like they see that as a kind of economic exploitation but it's like well you're the one who's spending the money it's like it's like no one is forcing you to spend this money yeah but like don't don't hate the woman who is making this content because of that dynamic. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And there's also like some moralistic positioning of like we're finally taking this back

from the women who have been scamming us by making us attracted to them. And the way that we as men are taking it back is to like steal their content so that we become the scammers of other men. Like what? Like, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. That's a good way to put it. Except it, like,

it does because they're making money, right? Like, that's, that's why they're doing this to steal and make money. They're scamming. Yeah, like, it does make, a scams always make sense. Yeah. Yeah, the layers.

That's how people do it. Yeah. The layers of, like, moralistic misogyny, which is kind of a weird phrase in itself, but like, That's the part that doesn't make sense, but the stealing and making money, that part makes a lot of sense. Speaking of adult content online, new anti-nude technology is coming to Instagram.

So we've talked a lot on the show before about extortion schemes that really blossom on Instagram that are mostly targeting young boys, wherein bad actors, like, lure young people into sending them nudes by pretending to be, like, interested in them and, like, doing a long con where they pretend. that they're in a romantic relationship. And then once these bad actors have those images, they then exploit and pressure the young people into sending them money or they'll release them to their friends and families. It is a real problem. And to combat that,

Instagram announced that they are testing out tools to detect when somebody is sending a nude image and having that image be blurred out in your DMs, where you would have to click a button to say, like, okay, I want to see this image. This feature is going to be automatic for Instagram users who were under 18, but everybody on Instagram is going to be prompted to turn that feature on in the coming weeks.

So according to Instagram, it will use on-device machine learning to detect nudes and is aimed at stopping sexstortion schemes that target teenagers. When you try to send a nude, you'll get a warning that says, take care when sharing sensitive photos. The photo is blurred out because nudity protection is on. Others can screenshot or forward your photos without you knowing. You can unsend a photo if you change your mind, but there's a chance others have already seen it. I don't of much to say about this. I mean, I do know that Instagram they really have pioneered like nipple detection software. Like they really are quite good at knowing when there is nudity present or even like the suggestion of nudity present in images. I just, I kind of, one of the reasons I'm having

trouble with this announcement is that it just seems to, I just wish that Instagram was offering something better than like their nudity. detection software. Like, I guess it's better than nothing, but I've seen Instagram really default to like quick fixes to signal that they're doing something, even if those quick fixes really don't solve the problem. And I just have been through this a lot with Instagram, and I can't help but wonder if they're like, oh, yeah, we're going to get a ton of good press on this like one small feature and then we can all move on. You know, we talked about that horrifying Wall Street Journal report about how Instagram is really enabling

pedophiles by allowing pedophiles to subscribe to the Instagram accounts of children using the loophole that those accounts are like parent-run accounts. And so you are not as an adult allowed to use Instagram's subscribe feature where you pay money to get exclusive content. You can't, you can't subscribe to a child as an adult, which makes perfect sense. But the loophole is that if that is a parent-run account, adults can subscribe to the accounts of children. And so that whole report was kind of a bombshell about how much that is enabling pedophiles to get direct access to young people, which is disgusting. And so I just think that Instagram here is like just counting on everybody reporting this and being like, oh, it looks like they're really taking it seriously

without actually demonstrating that it's going to meaningfully address the problems. I agree. It seems like a fine, good feature to have. It's hard to imagine that this is really going to put a meaningful curve on the sort of extortion schemes that you talked about earlier when you set up the story because there's a lot of other apps out there that people could easily switch over into. And if somebody is running a long con on a teenager, talking to them over days, maybe weeks, maybe months, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to, think that they would just suggest let's move to a different app, let's go to WhatsApp, let's use text message, send me an email, like whatever,

pretty easy workarounds. So I think you're right that this is more, like this protects Instagram and meta more than I think it's going to protect the actual kids. But like it's not a harmful feature. What it really reinforces though is how sophisticated

meta and other tech platforms can be when they want to in terms of identifying harmful content. So there's so many other areas, like you talked about the people subscribing to exclusive kids content via the mommy blogger account. You know, there's racist content, really a lot of harmful content out there. Setting aside, like, harmful political content, like insurrectionist type content, Q&on stuff, there's so much harmful content out there. And this kind of policy here, this technology to detect nudes, really reveals that all of that could be detected and dealt with if the platforms, like, wanted to. It reinforces the extent to which failing to take action on those other types of harmful content is a choice, not some sort of technical limitation. I completely agree.

So speaking of meta and political content, we told you all a while back about meta deciding to deprioritize content related to political and social issues on threads and Instagram. I have just anecdotally definitely seen this happening and felt the impact on. my own feed on Instagram. Like, I feel like when I scroll Instagram these days, which is like less and less and less, I feel like it is 30% kind of viral videos and stuff like that of like people that I don't follow, maybe 20% people that I actually have chosen to follow. And then like the rest of it is like ads and just like scammy stuff. It just like doesn't feel good.

And I certainly don't feel like I'm like learning a lot from scrolling Instagram. Well, now hundreds of politics. and news content creators, including activists and meme account administrators and journalists, signed on to an open letter asking META to reverse this decision to limit the reach of accounts posting political content on threads and Instagram. So Washington Post reports that, just as I suspected when this was first announced, it is impacting people who make content related to being marginalized or like marginalized identity in some way.

The piece reads, the decision has alarmed users who post about social issues, including LGBTQ rights, women's rights, racial inequality, and disability. And independent journalists and content creators say they've struggled to reach their audiences in recent weeks since the change was rolled out. The limits, they say, have significantly impacted creators who are black, female, disabled, and LGBTQ. So none of this surprises me because Facebook just has a whole track record of suppressing content related to marginalized people through, you know, moderation and inequities and things like that. This is stuff that we know about Facebook. How it works now is that you have to intentionally opt in to get content about political issues.

We'll put directions on how to do that in the show notes. But the folks who signed the letter say that it should be the other way around, we should be given the option to opt out of political content. The letter reads, as users of meta's platform, we did not choose to automatically opt out of receiving suggested political content on civic activism and news updates, removing political recommendations as a default setting, and consequently stopping people from seeing suggested political content poses a serious threat to political engagement, education, and activism. So I should also add that we still don't really have clarity on exactly how Facebook is determining like whose experiences are political and whose aren't. I could look at Facebook's track record

and make some guesses as to how they are doing that. But all they have really said is like things that are pretty vague. They say political content under the new restrictions includes any content that touches on politics or in meta's words, topics that affect a group of people and or society at large, which like, that is so vague that it's like clear to me that that's like purposely vague. These topics include content about LGBTQ and women's rights, as well as posts about racial and disability discrimination. Many creators also have reported that the filters restrict content on seemingly unrelated topics. This really reminds me to the first story that we,

talked about the actor who is receiving so much online hate and Tom Holland not more vocally standing up to support her you know it seems like

Instagram is really trying to just create a pleasant non-threatening, non controversial experience and I think it's easy to, yeah, not want to rock the boat.

And when people are not part of group that are receiving targeted hate, it can be a lot easier to just like look the other way and not want to yield to. And like, you know, in this case, be like, oh, it's political content. We're not going to include that on the platform, people talking about their experiences being LGBTQ in this. current climate of trans hate. But that's so harmful to just not to exclude that any conversation about that. It just feels, yeah, I think that that letter is exactly right that it is not just cruel of Instagram to exclude any kind of content that discusses people's experiences,

facing discrimination or whatever their experiences are. But it's like reckless to pretend as if, you know, we can have a conversation that doesn't include those things. Like what a harmful, reckless conversation that would be. Yeah, I mean, I have so much to say about that. One, I think that Facebook is trying to tell us something that I just, we know is not true, right? So, for instance, if you're a theater buff and you're really interested in theater, is the story that we led with,

about Francesca's racist, sexist harassment. Is that a theater story or a political story because it deals with race? Facebook is trying to act as if people's interests are so siloed that identity and things like politics and social issues don't bleed into that. That's not true. Theater is a political issue. That first story illustrates that. It's not that Francesca was like making it a political issue.

Other people were making it a political issue. And therefore, that story about theater is also a race issue is also a political issue. movies, entertainment, sports, technology. Those things are identity issues. They are political issues. They are social issues. And pretending like that's not how we live our lives is just, it's a farce. I think that anybody who is of any kind of like marginalized identity or also not from

any kind of marginalized identity is really familiar with the ways that there are all these intersections of the way we live our lives and our identity in all of these other things that might not look so identity driven on its face. And so one, I think that Instagram is like totally trying to pee on our leg and tell us it's raining to quote my girl, Judge Judy. Two, Facebook has had a huge direct hand in polarizing our democracy, polarizing our communities, right? They've made money off of that. I don't even think that Facebook would disagree that they've done that. Their internal reporting makes that very clear that they have had a huge direct hand in that and have made money from that.

To now turn around and be like, oh, well, we don't want to do any. We don't want to show people anything that's going to rile them up. Bitch, you made a bunch of money off or riling people up. And so now to tell me that I can't post about my experiences after you have made money and contributed to a climate where people are polarized, it just doesn't work. I'm just not willing to accept that. Yeah, like they broke our democracy,

and then they were like, oh, you know what, that's getting too messy. We're just going to, like, leave it. Like, no, you broke it. You created this huge information, ecosystem and like intentionally shaped it and distorted it from what it was, you have a responsibility to try to fix it. And like, I'm not saying that like it's meta's responsibility to fix democracy, but yeah, they like you said, they had a huge direct hand in creating the climate that we now have

of like polarization and riling people up. And they just want to like walk away and watch their hands of the whole thing. It's at least they're consistent. So that is exactly what Nicole Gill, who is a co-founder at Accountable Tech, which is the organization that organized this letter. That's exactly what Nicole Gill had to say. And I think she points out something really important here is that they're making this decision right before a big election year.

It's not just a big election year for the United States. it's multiple countries around the world will have elections this year. Nicole Gill said at a statement, limiting the reach of creators without notice or definition of what constitutes political content threatens their identities and livelihoods, while leaving hundreds of millions of users without access to critical news content during the biggest global election year in history. Today's fragmented media environment that meta helped create has resulted in social media platforms having outsized influence over the way information is presented and disseminated, and this decision will have next. negative effects both on and off their platforms. And I guess, like, to your point, like,

that's what I think, like, we shouldn't have to just rely on Mark Zuckerberg and Adam Mosey to determine whose experience and whose life is politics and whose isn't. We already know how they use that power when they, when they have it. They don't use it well. They don't use it equitably, right? And so I don't think that we should just allow them to create and maintain this system that marginalizes people who are already marginalized and they get to make money. off of it. Right. Like going back to that Francesca Romeo and Juliet's story, I didn't decide that my existence as a black woman is political. Other people did. And so telling me that I can't then talk about that and that if I do, I'm going to be deprioritized, I don't accept that. I don't

think that we should be relying on these wealthy, white, straight, cis tech leaders and billionators to define whose experiences count as politics and whose don't. Yeah. I, sometimes I like to just like close my eyes and imagine a world, like an alternate parallel universe where, I don't know, maybe Mark Zuckerberg got like hit on the head or maybe he took some LSD and had a revelation or something and decided to like radically change what he's doing. And instead of like dumping $46 billion into the metaverse, which like burned that money up, what if he had taken like a fraction of that and put it towards like research and innovating

in a way to like increase literacy and connection and compassion among their users, right? Like, wouldn't that have been nice? Knowing him, he'd find the way to muck that up to. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman Help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group. The worst?

Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open to change.

Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle. Just one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again.

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Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlic on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Let's get right back into it. So I do have a little bit of news kind of on that front, which is that lawmakers unveiled a new proposal that would for the first time give consumers broad rights to control how tech companies like Meta and TikTok and Google use their personal data. I say this a lot, but surprisingly, here in the United States, we do not have any real data privacy protections here, which again, every time I say it blows my mind. But if this proposal succeeds, it could establish something akin to the European Union's landmark privacy law known as the general data protection regulation or the GDPR and kind of attempt to curb this totally unregulated Wild Wild West that we have in the United States, where all of our personal data is just for sale by the highest bidder, whoever wants to use it to make money. That's the situation. And so this could ring in some of that if passed.

Thank God. It's wild that it's 2024. And we're just getting around to this in this country now. It is completely banana pants that we do not have any laws protecting our data privacy. Yeah. I mean, I was just reading about how the FCC just, I think yesterday passed a law that internet service providers have to give the same way that when you buy a box of cereal, it has the nutritional label that tells you what's in it and all the different things that are

in it. Internet service providers will now be forced by law to clearly include a breakdown of the broadband facts that you're paying for. So like the monthly price of your internet, you know, the additional charges, all of that. And yet they have to clearly label this both online and at physical stores. It looks almost exactly like a nutritional label that you would find on a box of cereal. And what I was so struck by that story is that, first of all, the fact that there was nothing requiring that kind of clarity to consumers to begin with. And the fact that internet service providers like Comcast really fought this. They were like, no, we shouldn't have to do this. And it just really struck me of like, y'all just want to scam. Y'all just want to take people

for a ride. You just want to bait and switch. And you want that, the ability to do that to be protected and enshrined by law, your ability to scam and lie to people. And so I remember when I moved into a new apartment signing up for Comcast and they were giving me like a deal on internet and being like, okay, so was this deal going to be forever or is this an introductory rate? And then it's going to go up. And they were like, oh, it's the deal forever. Deal forever. I was like, are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure? They were like, oh, yeah, your price will never go up. Well, that was a lie because my price did go up. And then they were like, oh, well, it was this or that. We had to add fees. And that's like, people deserve clarity. Like, it should be a given that people are knowing what they are being asked

to pay for. Like, this idea that you should just be able to obscure that and it's fine. And not only is it fine that like, it is your right as a corporation, I don't know. I just, the fact that we are finally now just getting around to being like, oh, wait, maybe consumers do deserve some protections. Maybe it shouldn't just be like, fuck you, pay me and I can lie to your face. Like, maybe that's not a helpful dynamic for anybody. I love how raw you are about this Comcast bill, like, a decade ago that, yeah, you're still, like, grinding this axe.

And we're like, we finally have a bill to protect privacy. You know what the real, like, thing is, though? Mike, I was in grad school. I had no money. When that bill increased, I may, I, I, I asked in every which way, is my bill going to get going to increase? And they ensured me no. I even had my dad who was so good on the phone dealing with like salespeople and like that

kind of thing. I called him while he was in the room to coach me through what to ask to make sure. Because I was like, I really cannot afford if my bill goes up. And when my bill went up, yeah, I was heated. I was mad. I'm still mad 10 years later. Yeah, I can call. A while I admit it.

I have asked to pick with Comcast. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we're going to go down this path. I remember years ago when I lived in Madison when I was going to grad school there, there were a couple internet service providers in town. And I think every year I would like switch from one to the other so I could get some kind of promotional deal. What a stupid way to like manage one's internet, right?

And it just, especially given how central the internet is to so many functions of day-to-day life. Like we use it to communicate, we use it to work, we use it for entertainment, we use it to get information about the world so that we can be civic participants. It's so absolutely critical to everything we do. And that just makes it even more mind-blowing that we still have no federal laws protecting our privacy when we are on the Internet. Yes, access to the Internet. The UN says it's a human right, but it's like to go through it, I have to deal with an internet service provider that is allowed to lie to me and scam me and exploit me. I don't think so. So this last thing I wanted to talk about, it's not really news, but it's something that I find deeply interesting that I just wanted to share with all of you. So in our Andrew Huberman two-part episode, which by the way, thanks to all of y'all for listening. We've gotten such interesting feedback for that episode. Thank you for going down that rabbit hole with me because it was certainly a rabbit hole if I wanted to go down. So thank you for letting me do that. But I ended that episode talking about how I really feel like podcasting is this tricky space where listeners really trust podcasters and how podcasts, for whatever reason, kind of automatically

convey a certain level of authority. I've talked about it on the podcast before, but I have noticed these TikTok videos where people look like they are recording a podcast in a podcast studio. There's a microphone in front of them. They've got like the neon sign behind them. But I know, I can tell that that mic is not turned on. And in some cases, it's not even plugged into anything. It's just like a prop that is in front of them, right? I've seen that where I'm like, the way this setup doesn't make any sense. Because when I record my podcast, it looks like, you can just tell.

Like there are wires everywhere. Your microphone is plugged into something that is recording. It's not just sitting wirelessly in front of you. Like, where's the audio that you're uploading going to, you know? Well, my suspicions have been confirmed by this piece in Bloomberg. breaking down the cottage industry of hired actors who are selling their services on websites like Fiverr who take money to make fake podcasts as user-generated content-style advertising. They even have an upsell where they will make a fake podcast in front of one of those glowing neon signs

to make it look like a real podcast. So in the piece, they talked to this guy named Wolf, who is like always in these TikToks that make it look like he is podcasting wherein he's like, talking up a product casually mentioning its benefits and why he loves it. Maybe you'll think this podcast feels slightly excessive in its enthusiasm for a particular thing, but TikTok's content onslaught doesn't leave much time for questioning. The takeaway is, here's a passionate person speaking authoritatively on a podcast. In reality, these clips are not coming from podcasts. In fact, Wolf is being paid $195 for each of these one-minute advertisements designed to look like a podcast.

On the freelance service website Fiverr, where he sells this service to brands, Wolf claims, I will make a UGC podcast video ad or a user-generated content ad using the client's own script to talk about the product. The custom neon sign is an upcharge. So this is just fascinating to me. Honestly, it actually kind of sounds like a pretty good racket. He says that he makes almost $20,000 a month doing this. Like brands, if y'all are listening and you want this, not only do I have a podcast, Mike,

I actually even know how to turn it on. So if you want to give me 20K a month to do this, I will gladly do it for you. Yeah, no doubt. We'll even throw in a neon sign for free. No upcharge. Part of the basic package. So a lot of the services they're hawking, which I guess doesn't really surprise me, are crypto or like financial services or like men's health and wellness related.

Friend of the show, Ryan at one of my favorite newsletters, Garbage Day. he called them weird Gen Z Hustleboro influencers, which I love that. I love that name for them. So Ryan's theory is that during COVID, the podcast mic became a symbol of authority or a visual signal of importance. Sort of like how during the era of peak TED Talk, a bunch of guys would film themselves on stages, add some inspirational music and then post it to Facebook. If there's a microphone in front of you, I assume the logic goes, it means you're important enough to record, which I can tell you, anybody. they can buy a podcast mic. Like, it doesn't mean anything.

Yeah, you can get one for like 60 bucks, especially if you're not going to plug it in, you know, you don't even need to, who cares about quality when it's not plugged in? It sounds like there was one kind of white whale TikTok video that made Ryan, like, skeptical that these people were making actual podcasts. It was this very viral TikTok of a woman in front of a podcast mic, talking about how she would like sexually please her husband. It went super viral on Twitter.

But then Ryan was like, what the hell podcast is this even? Like there wasn't a watermark or any kind of branding with like a show name on and everything. If you were publishing a podcast clip, you would probably put the name of the podcast that you wanted people to listen to on that clip. It didn't have that.

And it turns out this woman, just as a content creator who was making this as a way to promote her only fans, which I don't have any kind of problem with, like good for her. But Ryan connects this to a darker trend in kind of the overlap of podcasting and marketing where they have this. thing that I've definitely seen where it'll be like a pot a real podcast where part of the way that they are marketing their podcast is making these short viral clips of them interviewing is too

strong really just like humiliating a woman on the podcast like the podcast whatever is really known for this and fresh and fit was really known for this where they would have they would make these very short videos of them like humiliating a woman who has gone on the podcast and then that video would go viral. He writes, there's an entire universe of post-Andrew Tate sexuality and relationship podcasts that put young women in front of microphones, ask them outrageous questions, and turn it into viral clips, and then let audiences tear them apart. Some of these podcasts even have, like, casting calls on their websites to find new guests. I hate this. So maybe making fake podcasts to hawk items is one thing, but this dynamic where

microphone plus misogyny equals authority equals profit, that dynamic is a little bit more toxic. Yeah, there's a lot going on there. It was just kind of like a sort of weird funny story until it took that dark turn at the end. I think that the fact that podcasters like Fresh and Fit and Andrew Tate that they know that this kind of thing does go viral on social media, it just really is about the fact that masaginy and massage noir and all of that will always find a welcome home on the internet. Like I think this is not a bug. It's a feature of the internet landscape that we have where a video where a man in front of a microphone is humiliating a woman that will always find an audience. And I think it is, I wanted to talk about this as sort of like a funny, weird thing,

but it does connect back to that very real dynamic where massage noir and massaginie will always be profitable online, which is why we, we need to have a better internet landscape that doesn't allow for that. Yeah, if only meta would start excluding that kind of content rather than political content. Exactly. Well, Mike, thank you so much for being here. Bridget, thanks for having me. I hope you have a safe trip home from Mazatlan. And to the rest of you, thanks for listening. We will see you on the internet. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoody.com slash store.

Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, write and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wife is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife-Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.