There Are No Girls on the Internet - Virginia Dem candidate’s sex livestreams shouldn’t be a big deal; NSFW AI; Parents of trans kids speak up about KOSA; Can AI Drake win a Grammy? – NEWS ROUNDUP

Episode Date: September 15, 2023

Bridget is having an “off day” in this one, but Joey helps her through it.  Virginia election candidate responds after leak of tapes showing her performing sex acts with husband – "It won't silence me": https://www.cbsnews.com/news/susanna-gibson-candidate-responds-leak-tapes-sex-acts-husband-live-videos/ Actually, That AI Drake and The Weeknd Song Is Not Eligible for a Grammy: https://gizmodo.com/ai-drake-and-the-weeknd-song-not-eligible-for-a-grammy-1850818801 Open letter from parents of trans and gender expansive kids: KOSA would make our kids less safe: https://www.transparentsletter.com/ Ads for AI sex workers are flooding Instagram and TikTok: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/ai-girlfriend-ads-instagram-tiktok-chat-pics-chatgpt-dose-rcna97547 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Call 844-844-I-Hart. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown if you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. There are no girls on the internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There no girls on the internet. I am here with my producer Joey. Joey, thank you for being here.

Hi, Bridget. Thanks for having me. Joey, how is your week going? Um, that's been right. Uh, I could not talk for the first half of this week, which is not fun. Uh, but my voice is back, which is great. I can go in good sense then, so we'll see where it goes. Well, I'm glad it's back. It is sounding smooth and great. Thank you. Let's use that voice to talk about some of these new stories from the internet that y'all might have missed. So if you to this week's there are no girls on the internet when you heard all about Ashton Cutchers anti-trafficking organization Thorne. So if you listen to that episode, then you know that social media platforms do not often allow adult content from humans. Because of legislation like Sesta

Fasta, social media platforms really cracked down even harder than they already were on anyone posting content that involves sexuality on their platforms because of how that legislation really broadly interprets sexual content. Basically, you can't post anything related to sexuality and like that that definition is very broad. And it just sort of leaves up to the platforms like what they think might be considered sexual content or not. So anything that people post that even obliquely references sexual content, very often it's closely monitored and gets taken down.

What's this? Wait, this was, remember the like Tumblr porn ban like a couple years back? Oh, yes. I think about it all the time. Like that was because of this, right? This was like around that, yeah, yeah, yeah. which is so funny because I don't think Tumblr's been relevant since then, which I don't know. No, Tumblr has not been relevant since then. And it really had a broad, like broad consequences for the internet, right? Like, it completely restructured the internet landscape. I have argued this is just like my take. So like take that for what it's worth. I have argued that I think that was the beginning and a couple of other things. But Tumblr banning sexual content and adult content.

was the beginning of sort of that kind of existential question of like, what is the internet for being answered with like, well, it's to make money, right? And so if like, if Tumblr has to ban sexual or adult content in order to make money, then it's like, well, is this is the internet really for community building or connecting with each other or finding information about identity? No, it's about making corporations money. Yeah. So huge implications for the entire restructuring of the internet that we still feel today. So even though social media companies, thanks to legislation like Sesta Foster, really crack down on and closely monitor sexual content, that might actually not be the case when it comes to AI generated sexual content.

Because NBC did an investigation that found that startups are running explicit advertisements for AI generated adult content on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook. So this investigation found that about 35 app developers are running sexually explicit ads on apps owned by all of those social media companies. The app developers are running more than 1,000 ads in all, many of them easily discoverable and viewable from meta's online library of ads, which the public has access to. There were 14 app developers running hundreds more sexually provocative ads on TikTok, NBC Newsfound. This is a little bit weird. For some reason, a lot of the ads use memes that include, like, popular children's television characters. Like, I saw one ad that was like Cookie Monster making a few. face and it's like that face when you don't know that you could be having a virtual

girlfriend, a virtual AI girlfriend who meets all your needs. And I was like, why would Cookie Monster want a virtual cookie monster is very clear about what he wants is cookies. It's not an AI generated virtual girlfriend. I think it's just cookies. Yeah. No, that's so weird. You know what this is making me think of too is like remember all those like, which I guess you still have, but there's the whole thing about like the weird pop of ads that'll come up. that are like, especially for like video games, like online games where there's a lot of like video game characters like, you know, very sexually provocative kind of things. And it's interesting, this is sort of the direction.

Damn, yeah, like memes, like children's TV show memes. That's, that's interesting. It's exactly that, right? Like oftentimes they have like, like, like kind of teenager looking young women in like anime style. So I definitely think that for whatever reason, they are gearing it toward younger audiences because of the heavy use of like SpongeBob and Cookie Monster and anime girls. But I don't know. I think. I mean, I hope it's, I don't know.

I'm willing to say I don't think that's totally geared towards younger audiences. I think there's unfortunately some probably older adults, adult men for the most part. They're trying to get with that kind of stuff too. but yeah, wow, that's interesting. It's very interesting. So NBC reported that this is all part of a larger push to mine people who might be interested in AI-generated content in general, but also adult content.

NBC says, the marketing push is part of an AI gold rush in which app developers, most of them based abroad, are mining customers who are interested in sexual or romantic connections with digital characters. It's part of a larger movement to capitalize on the surge of interest in AI, following the popularity of tech startup open AIs chat GPT products, which reset expectations for what AI chatbots are capable of. So these developers are basically like, oh, well, if an AI chatbot can, like,

write your term paper or, you know, write a legal brief, maybe it could also be your romantic partner or your sexual partner. And maybe there are people who are interested in that. And let's find, let's like early on mind who those people are so we can sell this kind of content to them. Yeah, I, it's, you know, I'm not surprised. Like, I feel like this is always sort of going to be like, but there's some, I can't remember what it is. There's some, like, thing that's like everything on the internet, like there's some porn version

of it or whatever. Yeah, which I, like, it's, it's not surprising. Like, that that's just sort of been where, like, humanity and the internet is gone. But, um, yeah. Huh. AI girlfriend. I guess. AI girlfriends.

And so what's also kind of interesting. interesting about this is this push has also hurt real human sex workers who are already surveilled and targeted for what they post online. Sex workers are not allowed to make money off of their image, but some tech bro who's creating a similar AI image is. That's from Carolina R. A research fellow at Northumbria University and the Center for Digital Citizens in the United Kingdom. Yeah, that seems like the problem because, I don't know. I mean, if you want to have a romantic relationship with like an AI thing or a, you know, robot, that's fine. Whatever. you to you, I don't care.

But like, sex workers are still criminalized for doing the same work. I mean, I think your, you're like apprehension and sort of, it just feels not great to think that a human sex worker, sex workers are already marginalized online, is further criminalized and surveilled for posting their likeness on social media platforms. But if some tech pro wanted to make money, generate revenue, off of something similar, they could. And like, they might, they might not be surveilled as closely, certainly would not be criminalized for it the way that sex workers are. And so I think it raises some questions about equity and about, you know, the, like, who is allowed to do what

in this new sort of technology facilitated world that we live in. Yeah. That's so, I, there's so many concerning things that can come out of this. And I'm sure. you're going to explain more of that, yeah. So one thing to note is that, as you were kind of alluding to before, these AI-generated characters are traditionally sexy, kind of looking young women. And it's clear that they are targeting men in these ads, which adds to this double standard that we see a lot in technology and on social media, where sexual content that is geared toward heterosexual men is kind of okay on social media platforms.

R says that she believes that this all reflects a gender-biased, a slant. Social media platforms freely allow sex-related ads only if the intended audience is men. Hundreds of ads appear to come close to crossing the line of what Meta or TikTok would say that they would not allow in advertising. Now, meta's advertising standards say that ads must not contain adult content, including depictions of people in explicit or suggestive positions or activities that are overtly sexual or sexually provocative. They also say that ads cannot focus on, quote, sexual pleasure. But here is where the gender bias aspect comes in. We've talked about this in another newscast, this report from the Center for Intimacy Justice that found, for instance, that

Facebook ads allowing things like Viagra are fine, but then Facebook rejects ads related to the sexual health of anybody who is not a cisgender man, right? So like the ads for pelvic pain or postpartum issues are rejected because Facebook says, oh, well, those relate to sexual pleasure. But then sexual wellness or sexual health ads that are for cis men, those are something else. Like, it's like, who's sexual wellness do you consider, you know, about pleasure and thus disallowed? And who's do you consider like, oh, well, that's a health or a medical issue, so that's fine? Yeah, that's so messed up. That makes me so mad. Especially, I mean, it's, it's so obvious. There's so many, you know, we could have a whole conversation about like gender bias and, like,

the medical system in general, but it's, it's so hard as somebody with, somebody with a uterus to get your, your, your, your problems taken seriously, your medical health, your, your medical problems taken seriously, particularly when it comes to, like, sexual health. Yeah. And, and some of it has nothing to do with sex. Some of it has, it's just, you know, the organs that are in your body. There's also, this is ironic, because I just, I keep getting Hulu ads for, like, male health supplements in particular and a lot of it has to do with like erectile dysfunction and stuff. I don't need that because I don't have those parts. I don't know why Hulu thinks that I do. But it's, it's weird. I, this, I, the dots are connecting because I do keep getting these ads and I'm like, why. I, this,

you should be putting your, your advertising money somewhere else. I don't know. That's so. Yeah. Somebody, somebody, somebody is doing some frivolous spending with their ad dollars, on that one. But it's interesting because like, like, I, I don't get ads targeted, I mean, ads targeted to women's and like, like, non-sist men sexual wellness products. So if you're non-bionary, a lot of, a lot of platforms don't allow for anything that's related to, like, what you might be looking for in terms of sexual wellness or sexual health. Yet it is very clearly clear that somebody has made a decision about whose sexual wellness is like, quote, valid and whose isn't. And it's very clear that in the is bucket is cis men. And those are the products that you are allowed to advertise on social media platforms. Patriarchy is real. It is real. It is insidious. And also, it is wasting the ads men of these companies. Every time I get one of those ads, I'm like, I kind of work in media. I get kind of how this works. I'm like, what is the point of this? If you're collecting all my data where we're not

using it correctly, apparently. Right. It's so weird. Meta said, our policies prohibit ads containing adult content that is overly suggestive or sexually provocative. Whether it's AI generated or not, our policies and enforcement are designed to adapt

in this highly adversarial space and we actively monitor new trends in AI generated content. But they did not answer NBC's questions about if that is the case, how these ads got through in the first place. Meta only removed them after NBC reached out for

the article. So I guess the question really is, like, why are human sex workers or humans who want to post anything related to sexuality crack down on and surveilled so strictly when it kind of seems like AI-generated content that is sexual is enforced less so? Like, I don't know the answer to that question, but it definitely seems like social media platforms might be putting a little more scrutiny on humans and they are when that content is AI-generated. Yeah. This is such a like extreme version too of the way that like quote unquote like female bodies women's bodies are so hypersexualized and so like it's so normalized that there's something to be consumed and something to be like you know yeah something to be consumed we're like yeah again if it if

if it were the opposite and i'm sure if there were like ads with again quote unquote male bodies not trying to enforce the gender binary here. But like if those were being used, it probably would have been cracked down on way sooner or way more harshly. But yeah, it's, it is scary. It is scary to see that like AI is kind of one of the other ways. It's just kind of like best thing with these power structures is that it's like the sex workers that would be, you know, benefiting from the labor that they're doing at least to some extent. And it is labor that they're doing. that can be like pushed aside so easily and that that kind of commodification can be recreated

in a way that you don't actually have to compensate workers and it's almost like all of this is stemming from the same problem but you know very well put um and yeah i just think there's as you put it so aptly it's interesting to me how i guess like quote like the the female form like like again, not to like reinforce that binary, but like what we understand online as like, quote, like the female form is only really allowed when it is being consumed when like it's not a sex worker posting their image online to get compensated for that, you know, in an exchange of like services for money, absolutely not. If it's a tech pro who is creating this like fantasy AI chatbot girlfriend or something for other men to consume, it feels like that is in a completely different

sphere than when someone has agency over their sexuality. It is using that because they, in a way that they want to to compensate from it. Like, it's just very interesting to me what, and how much power platforms have in determining that, like, what is and is not okay? What is and is not, like, quote, sexual content? What, what sexual content is or is not valid? It's so interesting to me how much power platforms have to shape these things. And I would argue way too much power. Yeah. Final note, I guess.

I keep thinking of what I always say, one of my favorite comedies, ex machina, which is a great movie about, you know, the tech bro hubris. I would say, I'm not going to spoil the ending. But if you've seen the ending of that movie, it's... Oh, my God. It's... I joke. I almost wield it. If you haven't seen it, please watch it.

I recreate the ending in my household all the time as a joke. Not really. If you've seen the movie, you know what I'm talking about. But, like, that is an often referenced movie in my home. I, no, I, like, and again, it is, it is one of those movies where it's, it's the extremes of this. And it is, like, it is genuinely terrifying, I think, to watch and see the extremes of this. But again, the ending, I think perfectly ties it together is a perfect sort of, like, good for her narrative, as I like to say. And, you know, maybe, maybe.

maybe reality will reflect art. We'll see, I guess. Oh, we can only hope. Complete, complete side note, complete, like, left turn, no signal. Have you seen the movie Fire Island on Hulu? Yes. Do you remember the part where they're playing the game heads up? It's like the best scene in the movie, and he's trying to get the clue for Marissa Tomey, and he's like, oh, Alexandra Vakander. Like, Alexandra Vakander. You don't remember Marissa Tomey, but you remember Alexandra Bacander. She was great and ex machina. It's like my favorite scene. Anyway,

this is like all the rails. Great movie. Another great movie. Two equally, you know, cultural masterpieces. Oh, that's a good way to put it. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite.

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Okay, so speaking of legislation that can powerfully reshape the internet, I have a little bit of news on the Kids Online Safety Act. front, and that is that this week, 100 parents of trans youth wrote a letter to senators and all organizations who support the Kids Online Safety Act saying that it would make their kids less safe. The letter is, the whole letter is worth a read, but here's some, a good bit of it. They write, we hold deep sympathy for parents whose kids have been harmed by big tech social media companies and their abusive business practices. Our kids have also been harmed by these companies greed. Their addictive design, their intrusive surveillance, their failure to

address online hate, bullying, and abuse. But legislation like the Kids Online Safety Act would make our kids less safe, not more safe. It would grant extraordinary new power to right-wing state attorneys general to dictate which content young users can see on social media, cutting our kids off from life-saving online resources and community. These are the same attorneys general that are actively working to ban gender-referming health care that saves kids' lives, criminalizing drag performances, and label families that accept our children as groomers and child abusers. COSA would also incentivize big tech platforms to engage in even more intrusive data collection, which disproportionately puts trans kids and their families at risk,

and as more and more states strip us of our rights and criminalize our kids' health care, education, and very existence. The whole letter is definitely worth a read. I really applaud these parents for sending this letter and for sticking up for their kids in this way. I will say, parents, these parents are not wrong for people. being concerned about this. Like, it's kind of one of those things where it's like when somebody tells you who they are, believe them, I feel like some of the organizations who are behind this legislation and who are supportive of this legislation have really been pretty, I would argue, pretty clear about how they feel about trans folks and how they are planning to use this legislation

as a way to further censor LGBTIQ content and label that as a threat to youth, the same thing that we were talking before about how when legislation that is about changing the internet to protect kids, oftentimes they will label content harmful, but have a pretty broad definition of what that harm is, just leaving it up to platforms or attorneys general to decide what is harmful. And so Family Policy Alliance, a conservative group, asked Senator Marcia Blackburn, who is one of the senators who introduced the Kids Online Safety Act, about what she thought were the top issues impacting us today. And here's what she had to say. Protecting minor children from the transgender and this culture and that influence. And I would add to that watching what's happening on social media.

And I've got the Kids Online Safety Act that I think we're going to end up getting through probably this summer. This would put a duty of care and responsibility on the social media platforms and this is where children are being indoctrinated. They're hearing things at school and then they're getting onto YouTube to watch a video and all of a sudden this comes to them and they're on Snapchat or they're on Instagram and they click on something and the next thing you know they're being inundated with it. Parents need to be watching this. Teachers need to be watching and protecting our children and making certain that they are not exposed to things if they are emotionally not mature enough to handle.

See, this, my immediate response is just like rage too. It is like a combination of like, this is the... It's enraging! Every time I hear the transgender, I'm like, yeah. What? Like, I... That's so... the transgender, the singular transgender, it is, oh my God, I don't even.

Yeah, nothing says that like you, just from the way that she refers to trans folks, it's like pretty clear from like even intonation, like what she thinks, like how she feels. Like I said, like it's like, yeah, anybody who watches that clip, I feel like it's clear how Marcia Blackburn feels. I don't, I don't feel like she's making any, making it confusing for us to understand what she's what she's trying to say and how she feels. Right. It's, again, with this legislation, it's so, it makes me so angry. And I try to, you know, and this is the thing that I think sucks about this kind of stuff and sucks about a lot of this stuff that's coming from the right. It's like, there's no way to, like, argue at them that it's like, this is wrong. And I, and I think,

again, the thing that sucks is the majority of the everyday people that are going to see this and be like, I support it. It's because they just see the, the, the, you know, headline of this is going to make the internet safer for kids and not actually looking into what they're saying. But it is so obvious whenever they open their mouths to speak about this, that it has nothing to do with keeping kids safe. You're making it, you're arguably creating a, not even arguably, you are creating a less safe environment for kids because like, yeah, if you're creating an environment where it is, it is not safe for kids to come out to their parents. It is not safe for kids to live.

express their true identity, that's dangerous. That is going to lead to kids dying. It's just, it's so infuriating. And at the same time, it's like, the hell. Like, you're such a fucking idiot. I don't know what hell else to say. It's like, yeah, again, the transgender indoctrination. Like, a lot of these people are also, again, it's like the Christian nationalist right

where it's like, no, y'all are the ones that do that shit. You're all the ones indoctrinating. Like, I don't, I've never had somebody try to convince me that I'm trans or queer or whatever. It's usually the opposite, actually. Again, it is so mask off. It is so, they're not even, like, they're not hiding. They're not hiding what the intentions that this bill are. And that is the frustrating part about all of this.

Yeah, this legislation, I mean, I really, like, went through an evolution where I was like, because I for the longest time was like, oh, we need to do something like, you know, I know how much tech companies. any harm kids. And like when this legislation was introduced, I was like, oh, maybe they're doing something. And it all that took was like sitting. I basically urge people to like look and see what is actually in the legislation. Like it took me sitting down and like going through it and being like, wait a minute, this is not good. I don't think this is going to serve its intended purpose. And I can pretty clearly, just like with Sesta Fasta, I can pretty clearly see like what this

kind of legislation could lead to on top of people like Marcia Blackburn and the Heritage Foundation openly saying what they are planning on using it for, which, spoiler alert, it's like cracking down on LGBTQ content. Yeah. And Senator Blackburn, after this interview, her legislative director was like, no, the senator was taken out of context. First of all, I don't know how just being asked a question. And then the whole answer unedited from beginning to end is like what you see. I don't know what context was like taken out or like miss, you know, misreported. But I'm, I'm going, like, we're going to, like, you just heard her entire answer unedited. That was what she said. Her legislative director was like, oh, the senator was discussing two different separate things.

I guess, quote, transgender indoctrination. And then the kids online safety act. I don't buy it. I think that they're trying to backpedal. I think that she said, I don't think that she misspoke. Her legislative director said that she was taken out of context and that she misspoke. I don't think either of those is true. I think that she said exactly what she meant to say.

I think that people understood it as she meant it as intended. And then when she was like, oh, wait, this actually gives away why we are pushing for this, then tried to backpedal. I think that it's clear. It seems pretty clear to me what she intended to say. And I think it was this. I think how we're interpreting it is the way that she meant it.

Yeah. It's, you know, it's interesting. I think it's a clear sign of, A, how unpopular this sort of blatant transphobia is on a national stage, but also like what the strategy is. Because I feel like this keeps happening where right-wing politicians will say explicitly transphobic, explicitly, like, horrible shit about the trans community and then they'll come out or their spokesperson will come out and be like, that's not what I meant. I meant blah, blah, blah, because again, it's, it's there's like Ben's studies that have shown that like this kind of legislation isn't popular on, you know, like transphobia isn't, isn't

the dominant ideology of like the U.S. even though like the right wing wants to paint it as this is just sort of what most people think. But yeah, so they have to hide behind this like, oh, I miss it was taking off the context. about protecting kids. As you talked about in the episode earlier this week, it's scary to see the kind of things that people can get away with under the label of just protecting kids. And that is always, again, it's terrible that this has kind of gotten to the point

where it is like this, but it's kind of a red flag now. Never something is labeled as being about protecting kids. Look into it because you never know what it's actually going to be. Everybody can agree that, like, yeah, we should protect kids. But, yeah, it's, what is that actually? mean. I completely agree. And I do think that this legislation, and I'm guilty of it too, because it took me a little bit of time to like actually, I listened to your stuff I'm ever told you episode, which was very informative. Thank you. It took me like sitting down and actually like going through the proposed legislation and like the background to be like, wait a minute, no on this. But I think that there's, I think that people are starting to come around. I think that enough people who care about the internet and enough like, advocates for an open internet. And enough like LGBTQ advocates and folks are speaking up about

this legislation. And I also just think that like, I don't know, this is not a fully fleshed out thought, but I think that people are really becoming tired of the ways that our internet experience is just becoming worse and worse. And I think this legislation might be a real like crescendo point where people have kind of had enough. I think that when this legislation first came out, I didn't see a lot of people talking about it. But I think that recently I've seen more and more people being like, wait, like, really look into this before you advocate for it. I went from seeing organizations that are, I guess I would say, kind of aligned with youth online being like, oh, we like it to now not really talking about it so much. And so I'm hopeful that we've reached an inflection point with this where people are like, no, this is actually not what we need.

then this is just like another way to make our internet, yet another battleground on which to like demonize and criminalize trans youth. And I think as you said, people are sick of that. Yeah. And again, thank you. I go check out that episode on stuff I've never told you if you're interested in hearing more. But a big shout out. I said in the episode, big shout out to a lot of these like TikTok creators that I've been covering it because that's how I found out about this. I hadn't heard about this. I didn't really hear people talking about this until I was seeing people on TikTok and still seeing a lot of young people on TikTok using their platform to advocate for,

or to talk about this issue and to talk about this legislation and how it's going to be harmful. So, yeah, grassroots organizing is important. And again, this ties into the whole conversation about social media and the internet being monitored because TikTok is a platform for that. and TikTok is a platform for a lot of young people in particular to advocate for themselves and for other communities. And I think we owe it to a lot of these activists on TikTok the fact that this is getting more attention and this is getting more pushback now.

Absolutely. I agree. So thanks to folks who use their platform on TikTok to advocate and educate and speak out. I thank God we have platforms like this to do that. Thank God we have places where folks can use their platforms to talk about, legislation in this way that is accessible that can help educate all of us. So I'm right there with you. Completely agree. Okay, so funny update for you on the question of whether an AI-generated song can win a Grammy. So can an AI-generated song win a Grammy? Well, it's complicated. A while

back, we told you that the Grammy said that only songs with human songwriters, not AI, were eligible to win a Grammy. We had a whole conversation about how that was, I thought was like really good, like a line in the sand. The Grammys are for humans, not AI. I was joking about how like, I don't want a robot to perform at the Grammys. I want to see like Gloria Estefan or like Celine Dion. Like, I don't want to see a robot. I want to see a human. It's for humans. Well, this week, the head of the Grammys, the Recording Academy CEO, Harvey Mason Jr. Kind of indicated that an AI generated song that kind of sounds like The Weekend and Drake called Heart on My Sleeve would be Grammy eligible. And everybody was like, what?

I thought you said that it had to have a human songwriter in order to be eligible for a Grammy. Previously, Mason Jr. told the New York Times the song was absolutely eligible because it was written by a human. Okay. But now he is saying that song is not eligible because even though it's written by a human, this like writer, the songwriter on social media that's like kind of mysterious, it's like not a songwriter that you've heard of. It's like some person on social media. even though it might have been written by a human technically, that human did not get legal clearances to use the weekend or Drake's vocal likenesses.

So the Grammy is saying that that disqualifies the song for winning Song of the Year or Best Rap Song, which are the two categories it was submitted to. Earlier this summer, Mason Jr. laid out new rules for whether songs using AI were Grammy eligible. They said that AI assisted music could be submitted only if humans, quote, contributed heavily to the song.

And I guess all of this is to say that I think it's pretty clear that these rules might be a little too subjective. You know, what does heavily contributed mean? It seems like maybe they're kind of building the plane as they fly it a little bit in terms of coming up with these rules and guidelines. And I know I referenced this a lot, but it does sound like the reality is progressing quite a bit faster than the rules are being written that this has changed, you know, that he was like, oh, it's absolutely eligible for a Grammy despite being AI generated. to like, no, just kidding, it's not eligible for a Grammy within the span of a couple of weeks. Yeah, I think you're definitely right. Like, it does sort of feel like they're scrambling because they don't know how to respond to this. And yeah, we talked last week, you know, more about like the film industry and how that's kind of been affected by changing industries and changing economies and all that.

But again, with music, it's one of those things where it's art is so fundamental to like the human experience. and it is sort of like, you know, part of me, like, gets very existential about this, where it is like, or we're taking away, like, oh, my God, there was some tweet. I don't remember what who said or whatever. There's one tweet I remember seeing that was like, so, like, can AI be used to, like, help clean up the ocean or is it only going to be making art and, like, poetry and all that? Which I was like, yeah, no, it's like, why are we, why are we having AI do this stuff that's, like, fun?

And it is, like, you know, people want to, it is part. again, it's such a fundamental part of the human experience. Part of me is like, you know, the closest I can compare this to, like, previously is with, like, you know, and when it came to, like, electronic music and, like, how that was sort of thought about when it originally popped up. And that makes me a little bit more, like, okay, like, I think if we were using an AI a little bit to, like, as a part of the process. But, yeah, it is, it is that, that, like, the weekend, like, the weekend and Drake not give it. their permission, they use their voice or their likeness or their whatever, that definitely

feels like a red flag because it is, it is like, that, that seems to me where it's like, that is clearly that okay. But who's to say? I don't, again, it is one of those things where it's like the Grammys are coming from more of like the business industry side. So I'm, I'm not going to put it past them to be like, yep, it's all fine. This is all great. We love it all. Yeah, I saw this video of the director, is it Miyazaki from like my neighbor Totoro and Princess. And basically the animators were showing him this character that they had trained using AI. And he was like, absolutely not. I think the fuck not.

He shut it down. He was like, the point of art is meant to be human. It's meant to be humans responding to the human condition. And, like, he was so deeply and genuinely offended by what he saw as this, like, shortcut around the humanity and the humanness of art and expression. And it just really stuck with me. I once thought it would be, like, funny and cool to, like, talk to an AI podcast host version of myself. And when I sat down and started, like, putting that together, I was like, wait, actually, I hate this. I don't want to hear an AI version of me.

Like, as I just didn't like it. Like, as we've talked about off mic, Joey, like, I'm, I'm, if folks can't tell, I'm having an off recording day. The idea of AI is like, well, I can come in and I'll always sound prepared and eloquent and thoughtful and this and that. I was like, get rid of this AI. I don't like it. It's just like, it's just like not.

it's supposed to be. Sometimes, like, part of human, part of art is connecting to our humanity. And sometimes that humanity is has off days or is messy or is tough or is this or is that. And I just, as you said, I think the fact that business interests are so excited about AI makes me think that what they want is to cut out the version that, that the version of our creation that is human, that is like, has the off day, isn't prepared, came late, doesn't. It doesn't have this, doesn't have that. They, they, they, it was, it's in their best bottom line interest to prioritize

versions of creation that like never experience those, those things that humans experience. I don't know. I'm going, I'm going like way too deep on this, but I, I, I, I, all of that is to say that I know what you mean. You're so right, though. It is like, how many, and I mean, so much, so much of it is like, we'll never know, but think about how many like, recordings of songs that we listen to that maybe came out of the musician having an off day.

Like I, that is part of art. Emotions are part of art. And having that again, very, very on, very like, manicured version of a person being the only thing that can create art seems like we're just going to lose a lot of, yeah, like lose a lot of the actual art, lose a lot of the good stuff that comes out of it. You know what I think? It's the, oh man, this, maybe this is going to.

going in a different direction. But that one, there's one recording of Fleetwood Mac singing Silver Springs. Are they singing it to each other? They're singing it to each other. Oh, my God. Angry. Like, they look so angry. And it's like, it is one of the most beautiful things.

And it's one of the most beautiful things to listen to. Like, can you imagine if we didn't get that? Because they were like, nope, you guys can't stand to be in the same room. So we're just not going to record. Like, so much of art comes from that anger. It comes from those, like, quote, unquote bad. like what I hate yeah this just Joey you've just said my like my like trigger phrase for like if we if we were if this conversation was happening at a cocktail party I would be cornering your

ass all my talking about that one performance it's insane I have studied it I have like seen it so many times it's and like you can just feel the emotion and the energy it right I was it's one of the most like beautiful things ever and it comes from and like again I'm sure it comes from so much bad emotions. So many like negative bad emotions for both of them. But yeah, I know I totally agree. I would I would go off about this for hours. That is a beautiful, beautiful song. And you know what? It's just depressing to think that AI can take away that, that take away that humanity. Yeah. I mean, we did an episode about the hologram version of Whitney Houston was doing a residency in Vegas. And in the episode, one of the things that is sort of

comes up is the implication that, you know, Whitney Houston was this like incredibly talented musician, but she was, she had a troubled life. And that the implication in like making her a hologram is like, oh, well, this is a version of her that we can like have produced perfect live performances forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever, will never be hungover or late or, you know, on substances or be distracted by her romantic life or, you know, and it's like, But those were all part of what made her music, her music. And so, like, it's like, I don't like this implication that via technology, you can pick the parts that you like, right?

Like, if you want to listen to Fleetwood Mac, part of what makes Fleetwood Mac good is the drama offstage. It's like when they bring that to their performances, that's what makes it electric. Unless you're one of the robots from the movie X Machina, robots are probably not having romantic drama. I don't think AI is having romantic drama with each other off stage. Yeah. Again, I, you know, obviously addiction's bad. Addiction's real. Not to romanticize any of that. But like, we're talking before this. I'm wearing a T-Rex shirt right now. Like, I love a lot of like 70s era like rock and so much of that has this terrible, terrible, you know, trauma behind it. But it is like, we got good music out of it. And again, not to, I don't know where I'm going with this. I know what you mean. Like it's not good. It's not being said. Like, again, like, again, like, like, addiction's bad, certain drug usage is harmful for people.

But that's part of the human experience is being messy and making mistakes and messing up. And art comes from those mistakes and comes from messing up. And is oftentimes a way to cope with that. Which again, yeah, and again, like part of the beauty of music and movies and literature and all of this is it oftentimes is going to reflect things so that we're feeling that we don't know how to explain. like I'm not a musician. I don't have the talents to express these feelings musically. But like I love listening to like my favorite artist talking about it and talking about experiences that I'm going through.

You know, I can go cry to a Phoebe Bridger's song. And yeah, it's, it's, I don't know. It's just, it's, it's sad to see. Sad to see where this is going. Yeah. Yeah, I just, we are two people who care quite a bit about. art and expression. And I just want to make sure that that,

even in our, you know, tech futures, the beauty and the humanity of that, I want to make sure that is protected and uplifted and preserved. So I guess I hope that that is the way that it is in the future, for sure. More after a quick break.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group. The worst? Yeah.

Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yarn birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard. They're open. Do you have a name suggestion?

We're open. Since you guys are middle aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined.

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It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toladano, and our podcast's Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without our... Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves,

I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis is our offense.

And when IT's friends stopped by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get to fly. He running up the court, licking his fingers,

why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's get right back into it. Okay, so the last thing wanted to talk about is a story from my hometown. Susanna Gibson is a nurse practitioner running in her first election cycle as a Democratic candidate in a crucial race for the Virginia General Assembly. She is denouncing reports that she and her husband performed live in a sexually explicit streaming site. Gibson said that these reports about her online activity were an illegal invasion of her privacy designed to humiliate her and her family. So none of the news outlets who reported on this have independently verified these live streams, I should say. But it looks like Gibson and her husband got

on this streaming site called Chattrobat and had sex with each other on this live stream. So this race that she is running in is a really crucial race for Virginia. The House of Delegates is one of the only handfuls of competitive races that will determine control of the General Assembly. Republicans hold a slim majority in the House and Democrats narrowly control the State Senate, but both chambers are up for grabs in November. Her district is right outside of Richmond, Virginia, in Henrico County, which is actually more or less where I grew up, and my parents and family still live. And her district is one of seven toss-up seats across the 100-member house, according to

the Virginia Public Access Project. So this was all first reported by the Washington Post, who said that it learned about the material from a, quote, Republican operative, who denied connection to Gibson's opponent, David Owen, or to other political groups in Virginia. Now, obviously, I've worked on campaigns before. Apo Research is a thing that happens in campaigns. But to be honest, I'm kind of side-eyeing the post here who published sexual dirt on a woman given to them by her rival political party. You know, even though this person is like, oh, I don't work for her opponent.

They do call this person a Republican operative. And I just think it's dirty politics. Like, I think it's unbecoming of the race. I just don't think it's cool with the post. thought this was like newsworthy or relevant to, you know, publish. In an article about why they published the claims, the post wrote, the post typically does not identify victims of alleged sex crimes to protect their privacy. In this case, Gibson originally live streamed the sexual acts on a site that was not password protected. The couple had more than 5,700 followers there.

Many of the videos remained available to the public on other unrestricted sites as of Saturday. Gibson apparently was not aware of this and had not authorized the posting of this material on other sites. So to be super, super clear, Gibson nor her husband did anything illegal in making these videos. It is not illegal to film yourself having sex. It is not illegal to put it on a live stream site. The platform that hosted these videos does apparently have a rule against asking for tips for specific sex acts, which apparently Gibson and her husband did. But okay, so the Washington Post is like publishing that this woman may or may not have broken,

chattribates, no tipping, like no asking for tips rules. It just seems to me like very beneath them to publish this at all. Not to mention it might be a crime. Daniel P. Watkins, a lawyer for Gibson, said that it was unlawful in Virginia to record someone in a state of undress and distribute it to a third party without that person's consent. It's illegal and it's disgusting to disseminate this kind of material and we're working closely with the FBI and local prosecutors to bring those wrongdoers to justice, her attorney said. I have to give major shoutouts to Gibson because she is saying that, like, this is not going to

derail her campaign. She said, it won't intimidate me and it won't silence me. My political opponents and their Republican allies have proven they're willing to commit a sex crime to attack me and my family because there's no line they won't cross to silence women when they speak up. And I'm also glad to see that people in the like Big D Democratic institution are sticking up for her. her. Susanna originally ran for office because of the overturning of Roe, and she's been very outspoken on standing up for reproductive rights. People that are coming out in support of Susanna because they know that Republicans are coming after her because she was standing up for them. This is from a spokesperson named Lauren Chu. Yeah, good for, good for her. I again,

like standing up for herself. And, you know, it seems like I again, obviously is a terrible situation, but I'm glad that people are standing behind her too because it does seem like something where, you know, this makes me think of, like, I feel like there definitely has been a shift in, like, the last couple of years about how we talk about, like, these leaks of, you know, I, like, when I grew up, it was always, like, the, like, celebrities' nudes getting leaked or, like,

their sex tape, like, the Kim Kardashian sex tape and all that. Like, it's, it's, which I feel like it was old, there was, for a while, it was very, it was used to, used to attack women and used to attack, and many times when it was like, it's consensual. It's not your business, what they're doing in their sex life, as long as it's consensual, like, adults and all of that. And I'm glad, like, I don't know how much of this is, like, part of a bigger push,

but it does seem like there is kind of a shift where, yeah, I'm like, good for her for being, like, I didn't do anything illegal. I didn't, in fact, what they did is illegal, you know, I think it is, like, again, this is a bigger scale version of this, but it's like, we talk about like revenge porn and like that kind of thing where where I think it is good to see that there's kind of this shift about now like hey whatever people adults have sex sometimes it's a thing that happens we all are aware of that you know that that's not the problem the problem is the fact that people are going to like use that and weaponize that and

we live in a you know world where we have the internet and and and you yeah, Yeah, like things happen. People, whatever. People do things to their personal business. I'm glad there is kind of the shift where it is sort of like, yeah. And again, it is this is illegal what the Republicans were doing in this case. And it's terrifying. We were talking about like, you know, double standards with men and women when it comes to sex also, like at the top of this.

Like, if you just think historically, like, we know so much about like the Kennedy's sex lives and all that. And that's like a joke. Like it's like almost celebrating. Like it's almost sort of like, ha ha, it's this cool thing about JFK, he slept around a lot. And I don't know. Like, it is like, like, it is not double standard. Or it's like, why is that like a thing that's like, that's like, that's cool. And then like in this situation, you know, I'm sure if JFK were around now, he would be making a sex tape.

Oh my God, of course. Like, at the very, at the very least. My controversial presidential opinion. But yeah, it is so, that is, and again, good for her. This is terrifying. This is a, that is a terrible situation to be in, but good for her if she's standing up for herself. And that's messed up. And, yeah, good for her.

I hope this doesn't affect her campaign because, yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. I think slash hope that we've reached a new era. of this kind of thing where I am happy that she's not just like, quote, resigning in disgrace because she didn't do anything disgraceful. I'm happy that she's not letting this define her campaign. And I also think like, what does any of this have to do with the issues, right? Like, she, like, she says that she was motivated to run for office because of threats to reproductive health.

So it's like, that's a big issue. I don't know. It just, it just, it just, it just, feels like beneath everybody, I think, I think, I think it's beneath, people might disagree, but I, I, I don't think it's fitting to publish these kinds of, you know, like, I just, I did, I don't think, I don't, like, how is it going to help Virginians, you know, how is it going, how does this going to move policy forward? I just, I don't think it's like, worthy of making it this big of a thing about her campaign. I will say, like, to your point, about the candidates, I think that Donald Trump definitely set a new standard for like, what is expected and how public officials are like meant to behave. Like, let's not forget, in a civil trial, a jury found that Trump sexually abused E. Jean Carroll. So like, an actual sex crime, right? Like, we have convicted, yeah, like, sex criminals that are, that were the president of the United States. And exactly. why like and I'm sure these are again I'm sure a lot like the Republicans that were behind this

probably at least some of them support Trump you know who's who knows maybe they're anti-Trump Republicans who's to say but they probably do and it and it it's yeah yeah and I get what you said like shame on the Washington Post for publishing this I got this as part of a like it is part of like political campaigns but also that that feels like that's crossing a line. I don't know what the line is, but that just seems so clearly wrong. And especially when it is like,

if you, as a journalist, if I sat and thought about this for two minutes, it's like you're aiding criminals now who are spreading this video without this woman's consent and sort of framing it in a way that makes her seem like she's doing something wrong when she didn't break a law.

Like she didn't, yeah, again, it seems like she, what she did was consensual. It was maybe, yeah, the tipping thing is the one thing. But like, seriously? Like, yeah, that's, that's, yeah. Oh, she might have broken their, like, chatturbates rule, like, policy. Like, oh, no. Oh, man. Yeah, and I don't know.

Like, I remember when, so back in 2010, this woman, Crystal Ball was running in Virginia, in the Virginia's first congressional district. And these images of her, they were the like tamest images you ever saw in your life. Basically, she went to a Christmas party with her then husband. And I guess the theme might have been like naughty Christmas. And so she's like fully clothed. It's like her, it's like clearly like her and her friends having fun.

In one of the pictures, I think she's wearing like a sex toy on her nose. But like they're, if anything, the pictures are silly. It's like, oh, she went out and had like a. silly night of fully clothed adult fun for like a theme party. And those pictures, like, I think she had to drop out of the race. And so I'm happy to see that the times have changed a little bit that she, that like Gibson is not just like dropping out that she's like standing her like standing firm in the fact that this, you know, she didn't do anything wrong and she's not going to be intimidated by this. I will say like having like I grew up in this area.

I grew up in Chesterfield County, which is just one county away from Henneichael County, but like it's basically the same town. I hate to say this. I firmly believe that she didn't do anything wrong. She doesn't mean to be ashamed of, all of that. I just think the area is such that gender-based double standards when it comes to sexuality, I think is a real thing. And I think that for women especially, I think that women in Virginia are just held to a completely unrealistic standard that like nobody could meet. And so even if you're not, you know, be on a live stream or whatever, it would be something. It would, they would sign something to be like,

oh, this, you're not, you're not a proper woman, quote unquote, because of this or that. Like, when I was growing up, there definitely was the idea that women's behavior was meant to be scrutinized in a way that like, is just like, like, unique for women running for office and women in the public eye. And so I worry. that Gibson, like this might give folks in Virginia pause. It shouldn't, and I hope it doesn't, because it's nothing. But just growing up in this part of Virginia specifically, I just remember what it was like and how much of life was ruled by these

completely regressive binaries and like social norms and rules, like how much of that dictated life there. I don't know if it's still like that. lived there for many, many years. But I hope that Gibson does not drop out of the race. I hope that this does not impact Gibson's race, because I don't think it should. I hope that we are in a different place where, hey, we're all adults. People have sex. However you want to get down is however you want to get down, if it's consensual, if y'all are adults, do your thing. I hope that the only people that I'm like really side-eyeing here are the Post and whoever that, that like fucking

hating-ass Republican operative was, who was like, hey, post, you should publish this. So yeah, Gibson, you have you, I am with you. I think that it's really cool that she is, I don't know, I hope, I think this will be a test to see if like, if we really are in a different place and I hope that we are. Yeah, yeah. I hope so too. Well, that is all I have. I feel this was a tough one for me. I am, I'm sorry, Joey.

I'm sorry listeners. I'm in a weird headspace. Don't mind me. Mercury is and retrograde. I think it's ending tomorrow. We'll all hang in there together. until tomorrow. By the time you hear this, it will be over. Joey, thank you so much for doing the news with me, and I'll talk to you all later. If you're looking for ways to support the show,

check out our merch store at tangooty.com slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd.

If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, Michael's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Joey Dardano, and on my new podcast, ho from a hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice.

Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from a Hypocrite Wednesdays on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Why are we all so obsessed with romance? On the Radio 831 podcast, join us, Sanjana Basker and Tyler McCall as we unpack all the trending tropes, fuzzy adaptations, book talk drama, and celebrity love stories with hot takes and sharp guests. Each episode digs into what these stories reveal about desire, fantasy, identity, and how we love now. Listen to the Radio 831 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.