There Are No Girls on the Internet - Weird Little Guys are trying to take over our country. Don’t let them (w/ Molly Conger!)

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

Researcher and journalist Molly Conger’s new podcast Weird Little Guys uncovers the worst people you’ve never heard of, how they’re trying to take over our country, and what it all means.   LISTEN TO WEIRD LITTLE GUYS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weird-little-guys/id1760218611See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you let this fear sort of like spin out of control and let them become these like larger-than-life figures in your mind, then you do feel disempowered to do. anything about it. Like if these are, these aren't just some fucking guy, right? It's just some fucking guy and some guy can be defeated. There are no girls on the internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the internet. Molly, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for

having me, Bridget. It's been pretty tough to know just how to respond in this moment. I've been personally spending a ton of my time really trying to zero in on what it is I want to be and why, and how I can use my specific skills to create the change I want to see in the world. It's the kind of thing that Molly Conger has built an entire career of. She's a researcher and journalist who focuses on the far right, so she's been pretty busy lately. Molly's hit new podcast is called Weird Little Guys, and on it, she explores who she calls, quote, the worst people you've never heard of, and how the hate mongers standing in the way of progress and equality are, well, in a lot of ways, just weird little guys. But before,

all this, Molly was working an office job at an early childhood ed tech company, and then the Unite the Right rally that left 32-year-old Heather Hire dead happened in her town. I lost my job kind of unexpectedly in the summer of 2017. It was, you know, it's a huge bummer. I'd been working there for a long time. It was my first, like, big girl job, and I guess maybe my last one, because I have another job since. And so I was just a drift, right? I was just at home trying to figure out what to do next when Unite the Right happened here in Charlottesville. And I was not someone who was politically engaged at that time. I didn't know anything about that world. And I was bewildered by what happened here. Like, why did Nazis come to where I live

and kill a woman who was, you know, around my age, right? This Charles is not a big town. It's a college town. It's about 50,000 people. It just didn't seem like something that could happen here. I just didn't understand. And I had the time to waste trying to understand. And I never stopped. When this was happening, were you like, oh, I am carving out a lane of work for myself? No, and I didn't ever intend for it to become a career or, you know, become a subject matter expert in anything. I just, I guess I don't half-ass anything. I whole-assed it. I know your work has been instrumental in identifying extremists who sometimes have committed actual crime. in the name of their ideologies. How did this come to be something you realized

that you would have knack for? I've talked about this. I think, you know, like I did a workshop last year in a local bookstore about like, you know, internet safety and sort of reverse engineering how to keep yourself safe by talking about the ways that I make other people less safe online,

you know, less safe being, you know, a hater in secret. And I think I think all women have this ability. It is a latent ability that all women of our generation have, right, that like you've stayed up all night trying to find your ex's pictures on social media. Like, what is, what are they up to? Did they get married? You know, we all have that skill set. And I think in another universe, I'm just a fucking menace on Nextdoor. But I found a way to channel that like aggressive, nosiness into something that's good for society. I love that. I love that being your superpower. I have said that on the show. Nobody is like smarter than like a group of

girls with Instagram. They will find anything, anyone you cannot hide from them. Like a scorned woman is more powerful than the FBI. Absolutely correct. By now, I'm sure you've seen that horrifying video. A woman, later identified as Dr. Teresa Bournpole, is forcibly dragged out of a public town hall meeting and zip tide for speaking up. There was a time where town hall meetings were just the boring, process-driven grease that kept the wheels of local government turning. Not necessarily the hotbeds of discontent we know them as today. But Molly was someone who identified that town hall meetings were going to play an important role early on. In 2017, she started live tweeting government meetings in Charlottesville after the deadly Unites the Right rally.

You know, something else that I really have to lift up about your work is that I feel like you're one of the early people who recognized the power of things like public town halls, public meetings, especially happening in Charlottesville. Today, we know that like those are, big flashpoints where, you know, you might get dragged out by hired goons for saying the wrong thing. But I feel like there was a time where you thought of public town halls or town meetings as these like boring things, that they were not the flashpoints that they are today. What was it about those spaces that made you feel like I need to start tracking what's happening in these spaces? They should be boring. First of all, they should be boring. But no, so in my

sort of early quest for personal understanding, one of the first places I went was, I went to the first city council meeting that happened after Unite the Right. So it was the week after this happened here, I didn't know where to start looking for answers. So I went to City Hall and it was this very explosive meeting because there was a lot of anger here. There was a lot of hurt. And over time, those meetings, you know, fewer and fewer people showed up over time. I think Charlottesville is a more engaged locality than most. And we have remained that way over the years.

But, you know, over the months, people stopped showing up. but I was interested. I was interested in the way these decisions are getting made. And I guess once I committed to that, I couldn't stop. But it wasn't something I started doing for anyone else. I fell off in the last couple of months because I'm busy with the show, but I spent seven years live tweeting city council meetings. And it wasn't something I was doing for people because, like, arguably,

there should be no audience for that. It's not interesting. But I learned a lot about local government, about the kinds of people who show up to make themselves heard. You know, there are, I don't know, I think because it is boring, because it is time consuming, because it is hard to do, you know, six o'clock on a weekday evening, you have other stuff to do. You're still at work or you're making dinner for your family. The kinds of people who show up are often people who have not great motivations. And so we shouldn't cede that ground to that one weird lady who wants to ban all the books at the library. Do you feel like that's a big part of how we got to where we are now?

I understand the temptation of focusing on presidential race, national politics, what's happening federally. But while we were doing that and sort of not paying attention to the boring city council meeting or whatever, the lady who wants to ban all the books in the library really amassed a lot of power and now has goons. Right, because that's been an explicit organizing strategy of like right wing interest groups for a long time is running city council candidates, running school board candidates. They've been filling those rooms with their goons for a long time. And, you know, it varies locality. Locality. I don't want to say there are no people pushing back against that. There are a lot of good people pushing back against that. But I think on average, we have ceded that ground to people who, you know, the federalist society or whatever, who understand. that they can build power locally. I'm curious. Are you from Charlottesville, like originally? I moved here in 2007 to go to UVA, and so I never left. Yeah, I'm from Virginia. I grew up in Richmond. And you mentioned how Charlottesville people

there are, like, perhaps a little more engaged civically than your average place. I totally agree. And I think that Charlottesville, I love Charlottesville. I grew up going there. I had a lot of friends that went to UVA. Like, that was like the good, when I was in high school, that was like the good college that you hoped that you got into. A public idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In Virginia, you might know this.

They just call it the university. They don't even call it the university of Virginia. Like, that's how ubiquitous it is. And I do think, like, in a place like Charlottesville, where folks are pretty, like, plugged in, it's like a unique place, do you think that that strategy of quietly, taking things over. Does that work in a place like Charlottesville where folks are pretty

plugged in? It doesn't work here. It doesn't work here. Antonin Scalia's granddaughter did not successfully run for school board here. She tried and it didn't work. So I think, yeah, you have to be in that space and know what's going on, run your own people. Because I think especially now that I guess the law doesn't matter at all at the federal level, that our local government, is going to be our last line of defense, that when, you know, these terrible directives come down from the federal government or, you know, in Virginia, we have a terrible governor who's going to cooperate. Don't even get me started. Your local government. Your local government is your last line of defense. Like, the regional jail board here makes decisions about whether or not the jail

cooperates with ICE, right? Like, these local decisions have a very real impact on people's day-to-day lives. Well, it's interesting that you say that because I personally, I personally, Personally, Bridget, I'm going through a little bit of a, I guess you could call out a despair tailspin with everything going on. Reasonable. Yeah. And I think I constantly finding myself kind of oscillating between just being like, I need to quit my job and dedicate myself to the calls full time.

I don't have kids. My parents are dead. Like this, like this is, it is time to like lock the fuck in. And being like, I need to check the fuck out. to like disengage. And it almost, and I bet a lot of people maybe you're feeling that way. And it almost sounds like what you're saying is that the antidote to the feeling right now, a feeling like, I can't do anything, I can't change anything, is being like, it checked in, engaged, informed, like, even at the hyper local level, because that's where you actually could

build up the, build up the qualities that like make that strategy of taking over, of extremists taking over your local government less likely. Exactly. And it doesn't have to, you know, this push and pull of like, I can't do anything or I have to do everything is overwhelming. But you don't have to do something big. You don't have to do something big. Just join a community group and be part of something that could be big, but it doesn't have to be you. Right? You don't have to have main character syndrome about stopping fascism. Yeah, I don't think, I don't think me personally, individually is going to cut it. But there's this feeling like if I don't do something enormous, if I don't put my whole life into this, then I am not. contributing and that's not true. I think you go to a school board meeting. Talk to your teacher's union. I really like that. And I think especially right now, it is, I mean, I feel overwhelmed. I think everybody's feeling overwhelmed. The idea that, like, you don't have to do it all. You certainly don't have to do it alone. If you, you know, thought somehow that you were going to be the main character of stopping fascism, like, disavow yourself of that notion. And it actually is,

like, helpful to feel that way, to think of it that way. Right. But, like, I don't know. Your own insignificance can be a comfort to you, that you are just one person in this larger operation of people coming together and doing a little bit at a time. That's more manageable. You know, I have to say, like, my own show has sort of been off the air for a while, like, in part because of personal reasons and family reasons, but also part of it is just like straight up not really knowing how to show up in this moment. Like, I have sort of struggled with my own kind of North Star because I want to provide to my listeners like content that is valuable, that is useful, that educates them, that helps them understand what's happening and how to get

plugged in. But I don't want to be alarmist. I don't want to be, you know, doom and gloom all the time. But what the moment that we're in right now is genuinely alarming, right? So like part of me is like, well, if I don't want to be alarmist, I guess I can't say anything because like we're in an alarming moment. Is this something that you have dealt with, struggled with? And And have you managed to find a balance there? Gosh, so the last couple of weeks, actually, I've been really grappling with that exact thought, right? So when the show launched, you know,

the first few months of episodes, I'm telling these stories about history, right? I'm looking at sort of a specific incident or individual from the past, you know, guys from the 80s, crimes from the 70s, like crimes that are sort of discrete package stories of like, look at this little fucking guy. Look at this, look at fucking weird Nazihood, child porn on his computer, right? It's just these like little vignettes of creepy little Nazis. But

the last couple of weeks, the episodes have really focused on tying together. Like, here's this thing that happened in the past and here is its direct correlation that is ruining your life now. And it's, I feel like there's a responsibility that I have to tie these things together. You know, I'm not just talking about, you know, the American white supremacist movement as this interesting.

anecdote of history. It is something that has led us to this moment. So time, like, not just like this is an echo of this. This is a direct consequence of this particular man's actions and words. And here's the clear through line that got us to today.

It sucks. That's not the show I wanted to write. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk, to David Letterman, help make you funnier.

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The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard. They're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection.

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At our back. On her podcast, Weird Little Guys, Molly isn't just rehab. old stories of extremists from the past. She's connecting how these stories led to our current moment. For instance, when Don Logan, Scottsdale, Arizona's former diversity director, opened an Office of Diversity back in 1998, it was bombed six years later. Don Logan almost died, but the office stayed open. But the story didn't end there, because even after surviving a dangerous bombing decades earlier,

just recently, the city government voted to shut the diversity offices door. Well, in one of your episodes you're talking about the diversity office in Arizona that was like bombed in 2004 and, you know, the person who opened it survived that bombing only for earlier this year a few weeks ago, that office to close when, you know, they voted to, as the Phoenix New Times put it, for no apparent reason or justification doing so other than for the council to align itself with Donald Trump's baseless culture war crusade again. against diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives. Like, that seems like, exactly. Like, I read this piece, and it broke my heart. The person who was like, yeah, if I had opened the package that had a pipe bomb in it a little bit differently, I would be dead today.

And now this office is shuddering. In some ways, it does kind of feel like when you are threading that needle of these stories that, like, we're moving in the wrong direction. And I guess I wonder, like, how do you, as somebody who tells these stories for a living and threads that needle for a living, how do you deal with that, this feeling that, like, we are going in the wrong direction? Like, we simply are not moving forward.

Yeah, that story in particular, I think, really, like, instilled in me this idea that I have a responsibility to be clear that these stories aren't over, right? Like, I spent, I spent two full months chronicling the life of Dennis Mahon that Klansman who built that bomb in 2004. Like, I followed him for decades. I dug through archives and court records. and transcripts and old clan newsletters and watched videos of sermons given at the Aryan Nations compound. And I spent months writing this story. And I thought, okay, it's over. He's in prison.

His trial was very interesting. He was convicted. And that story is over. And then not a month after I finished writing it, the city council shut down the office that refused to shudder because of a bombing. Right. Like he sent them a bomb. Don Logan almost died. and the city said, no, diversity is important to us.

Diversity is important to us. Klansmen don't get to decide that it's not. And then 21 years later, some Republican mayor with too much Botox decided that, no, actually, diversity sucks and we hate it. And so we are moving in the wrong direction. And I don't know, I was speaking to an undergraduate class at EBA the other day about the show.

A professor invited me to talk to the students about the show. And a lot of their questions for me were like, well, what do we do? What do? What does the future look like? And I'm thinking like, I don't know. I don't know. I'm not a political organizer. I'm not a prognosticator. I don't, I'm just trying to tell a story. And hopefully it can inform the organizing work of people who are good at that kind of thing. But all I have are these old clan newsletters. Well, this might sound wild, but like stay with me here. So I love Tony Morrison. I love Angela Davis. And they were close friends.

And Tony Morrison was working as an editor at Random House, right? And she was very clear that like her, during the, you know, black political movement of the 60s and 70s, she was like, oh, my role is like being an editor writing, blah, blah, blah. And Angela Davis, who of course was like this amazing organizer and activist that had been arrested. and like, you know, was really in the streets and in the struggle, Tony Morrison said, you need to write an autobiography, a memoir. You need to write the story of your struggle in the street so people can read it. And Angela Davis was like, no, I'm too young. I'm too young for a memoir.

Maybe I'll do it in 10 years. And she said that Tony Morrison was the kind of person who had a way of telling people to do things where they understood they really ought to do it. And she wrote that memoir. And, you know, it went on to inform an entire generation. of political organizing and social movement and theory and praxis. And Tony Morrison was very clear that she wasn't going to be in the streets, but her gifts, the thing that she was good at was editing and getting people,

like identifying the person whose story needed to be told and making sure that story got out into the world. And I really see that as like a similar thing, right? Of like, you know, you were saying, like, I'm not an organizer. I can't tell people, like, how you push back. But you know where your gifts lie, right? Like, you know what you're good at. You're good at pouring over research, archival.

I mean, part of me almost wonders if the thing that we should all be thinking about is, like, what is the skill that we're good at that they can't take away from us? And how can I lean into that in this moment? And yours is clearly, like, going over the meticulous, you know, archives and telling a story, making a story out of it. Right. And like giving people sort of the language to assist them in understanding the moment, such that they may take the action that they're good at, right?

Like, you know, people are like, oh, these, you know, it's a fascist government. It's the, you know, we're experiencing fascism. And then there's this pushback of, well, you can't just, that's such a big word. You can't say that. But if I can give you the information that you need to say, no, I know where this idea came from. I know whose mouth those words came out of last time they were spoken, you know, that this isn't just normal Republican politics. This is, this is something you come from an old clan newsletter. How much of your work is like?

digging into old clan newsletters or like looking through speeches that are archives and things like that, things that like maybe read as boring, but help us understand this. It's not boring to me. It's not boring. I guess that's, you know, we all have our special interests. This is, the research is my favorite part. I love it. Like I spent most of last week trying to translate a blurry PDF of a thesis that was written in the 90s in Afrikaans. And OCR does not

The AI does not want to read this to me I'm like line by line Because I know there's gold in there And I'm going to get it You know something that I appreciate about weird little guys Is that is the part of the show that's like That you've never heard of Like that part I think is very important

You know there are so many Of these names that folks might know Like Richard Spencer who I always you know I have to give him a special shout out because he was punched in my hometown of D.C. And it's like a claim to fame that I love to mention. But you're talking about people that like extremists that people might not know, right, or might not have heard of. And, you know, I live in D.C.

And so like, you talked about Aaron Hoffman, who was a police officer in nearby Prince George County, who you identified as a proud voice member, you know, who was advocating for violence against a Supreme Court Chief Justice. And I guess I wonder, like, why do you think it's so important that people don't just know the sort of like big name extremists that get fancy write-ups in the Times or whatever about their haircut, but also the people in your hometown on your police force, on your school board? Yeah, I guess the idea, you know, the name of the show is Sophie's idea, actually, Sophie's brainchild, weird little guys, right? It's that like, it's not just the splashy big names that you've heard up. It's there's whole networks of these. It's like you pick up a rock and there's all these roly polys under there, right?

There's never just one bug under that rock. And they're just these terrible little losers, right? They're not these larger than life, incomprehensible figures, these, you know, great men of history, quote unquote, right? It's just like a bunch of fucking losers who were mean to their wives. Yeah. So I was once on Behind the Bastards and I was talking to Robert about this. And I forget, I forget who we were talking. talking about. But he had a very, whoever it was had like a very messy interpersonal life.

And that was his undoing. And I was like, dang, imagine being like this like high up figure and extremist movement. And your undoing is like your interpersonal messiness with your girlfriend. And he was like, bitch, it's all of them. Like that's like, it's like, yes. Like there's a, there is a white nationalist group that does not exist anymore because it fell apart after the leader caught his best friend slash father-in-law sleeping with his lady. God, okay, so Matt Heimbach was married to Brooke. And Brooke's stepfather, Matt Parrott, was having an affair with, oh, God. Oh, the diagram is escaping me.

You need like the string board. Like, there is no Pepe, Sylvia. No, like, we call it, we call it the night of the wrong wives, right? because this Nazi group collapsed because they were like they were fucking each other's wives. Yeah. People with the moral high ground for sure. These are the people that we want architecting are like traditional values. I mean, is that is that a strategy here like really exposing the ways that these are just like small, weird losers and that they're not larger than life figures?

And that like we are smarter than them. There are more of us and there are of them. There are? Yeah. And like, we need to. remember that, that, like, we can defeat them. They're not, like, big, smart, savvy people. Is that part, is that a strategy here? Yes. So it's, you know, I'm not saying they're not scary or they're not dangerous. It's absolutely not the message here. But, like, if you let this fear sort of, like, spit out of control and let them become these, like, larger than life figures in your mind, then you do feel disempowered to do anything about it. Like, if these are, these aren't just some fucking guy, right? It's just some fucking guy. It's just some fucking. guy and some guy can be defeated, right? The idea of the monster is much more frightening than

a weird guy. Yeah. After watching, I mean, that horrifying video of a woman being dragged out of a meeting in Idaho, I, when I saw the video was like, this is, I mean, it is terrifying, right? But then you hear, you read about the sheriff who, you know, speaks to her initially, and everybody is like, oh, you want to know more about this guy. Here's his history of like weird, shitty, terrible behavior. And part of me is like, wow, like, he, like, first of all, if somebody with that kind of a background, I'm like, you probably should not have put yourself out here to be publicly scrutinized in a national, on a national stage.

But also it's like, these are people with so many frailties and skeletons in their closet. And like, I don't know, part, something about that story I found very empowering of like, yeah, get them. Like, I'm glad we're all talking. about whether or not he's pulling some kind of a disability scam right now. Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, who decided that the, who put these assholes in charge? Like, who decided that this person knows better about how to run anything than me?

Exactly. Like, they all have just something terribly humiliating in their background, right? Like, oh, you may be the guy who wrote the book that inspired, you know, dozens of mass murderers to commit acts of unspeakable terror. But, like, I read your bankruptcy filings and I know you got fired from Walmart. Like, yes. Yeah, weird little guy. I mean, like that really, that title really does say it all. These are weird little guys. They're small. They're small in, you know, they're mentally small. Their minds are small. Their hearts are small. And we can defeat them.

You know, there's been a lot of talk about this really being a time where folks should be leaning in and staying checked in and showing up at town hall meetings or meetings in their local communities to demand accountability from elected officials. Do you have any advice for folks doing that? Maybe for the first time, meaningfully. in their lives. Oh, gosh. Just go. Just go to the meeting. And no, I don't know, oh gosh, let me think. It's been so many years. There's a steep learning curve. Like, and when I first started showing up to these meetings, like they seem overwhelming. It's confusing. Like there's a very specific language of the way bureaucracy is conducted. You know, it's, so don't be afraid to just sit quietly for a meeting or two until you figure out the space that you're in. You know, read the agenda online. You know, read the agenda online. You can watch old meetings online if you want to.

If there's local groups in your area that go to these meetings in an organized fashion, talk to them. Ask them questions. I'm sure there's someone there who will talk to you about it. And know your rights. I think there's a lot of intimidation that goes on, right? Like, if you don't know that you are allowed to be there, you might be bullied out of that room. Like when I first started going to not just city council meetings, I started going to every public meeting I could because I was very unemployed.

And there's all these boards and commissions in my town. I would go to these meetings. And it was obvious in some of these rooms that no one had ever come before, that no member of the public had ever walked into that room and watched them have their meeting because they would say things like, oh, you can't be in here. And I would have to say, well, no, I'm familiar with the law. And yes, I can. The law says, you have to let me be in this room.

So they tried to gaslight you into making you think that you were like trespassing essentially. Oh, you're not supposed to be in here. We're having a meeting. It's like, yeah, I know. That's why I'm here. I'm here to watch you have this meeting. And it changes their behavior.

Like, even if you say nothing, just the act of witnessing them have their government meeting changes their behavior. And so I think even if you have no intention of making a public comment, go be in the room. Make them look at you. Make them know that their constituents are aware of what they're talking about. Do you think that especially now that it seems like, Oh, I mean, when I think about what's happening federally, I just, it's very hard to find anything hopeful to grab onto you.

Yeah, I'm not looking there for hope. Yeah. I mean, maybe it's local. Maybe like that's where, like, that's where you can actually like grab onto something. Right. Like, I have no, like, you know, calling my congressman's not going to do anything. He was at January 6th. Like, he looks like a haunted marionette doll and he loves fascism.

Like, I'm not calling him. But I know. But I know that, you know, when. it comes up for a vote at my school board. A couple years ago, they voted to take the cops out of our local schools, right? Because having cops in schools is proven. There's academic studies proving that it like worsens outcomes, particularly for black students. It increases the level of violence in the schools.

It does not make anyone safer. So they took the cops out. They did the right thing and they took them out. But now they're talking about putting them back, right? So like, I can't make my congressman do anything about fascism at the federal level, but I can be in the room to make sure. sure that, you know, black kids at my local middle school aren't terrorized by a school resource officer. That's something I can do. I mean, that, that actually feels a little,

like, that feels real to me. Like, that, like, that feels like a, like a change that, like, you could see, you can feel in your community, like in your town. And it's not meaningless, right? These small things, they feel insignificant, you know, in the face of the horrors that are, that are in and dating this every day, but it's not meaningless to the people whose lives it touches, right? That, like, you know, one 14-year-old black boy gets arrested by the school resource officer, that's the rest of his life ruined, right? Like, that is a life-changing act of violence for a child. And that's something that you can have an impact on. More after a quick break.

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Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion?

We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

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Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Let's get right back into it. In all of this work, I mean, I have to. ask like, we talk about this on the show kind of a lot that like a lot of the sort of dangerous work of chronicling extremists pushing back against extremists is being done by marginalized communities, women, you know, that I think that that's not a coincidence. And also, women are like uniquely targeted for this work. Like it's usually not just us. It's like us in our family, us and our partner. How do you, how does that been for you? And how do you keep yourself

sort of safe and like okay to show up and do this work. Dissociation, number one. Number one, just I don't live in this body. I'm not here. I mean, that's laughing. That's not funny. Although I will say I haven't gotten a death threat in months. And that's the first time in years that I can say that.

It used to be like every week I was getting, you know, a message from some guy who's like, I'm going to shoot you in the chest and then fuck the hole. you know, like weird stuff. Good Lord. Like, okay, Chad. I think they're afraid of being on the show. Oh my God. If they were a weird little guy, it's like,

today on weird little guys, listen to the voicemail that Chad left me and then it's played in its entirety. Yeah, I think they're afraid of being on the show. But no, I think this is something that, especially, you know, the female colleagues that I have, is something we've been talking about for years, right? is that there are, you know, white men with well-paying staff jobs in newsrooms who do similar work. And they don't really get the same threats.

I want so they don't get them. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm not stealing valor or, you know, diminishing the threats that we all face in this work. But it is different for women. It is different for people of color. It is different for Jewish anti-fascists. Like, it is different for people who are not white men. The level of vitriol is much more appalling. The amount that people care when it happens to you is significantly less.

And I think we know why both of those things are true. God, I will never forget. This is years ago, but a white man who makes a living writing about the far right told me that he was jealous about how many threats that I get because it just seemed so interesting to him and if that's never happened to him in his work that it was just he was a little bit jealous

like why would you see that to me? Oh my God. I mean, people are calling the hospital where my mom works to like say gross stuff and you like that? You think that would be fun?

I mean, this might sound like a silly question. Like, I think I know what you're going to going to say, but I'm going to ask it anyway, what, like, fills your cuff? What brings you joy? What nourishes you to keep you checked in here? I mean, the show is called weird little guys because I genuinely love finding a weird guy. And so, like, Sophie came up with the name because, like, in the work chat, like, I'm constantly coming, coming, you know, coming to everyone and being like, look, look at this fucked up thing I found. Look at this weird guy that I found, right? And, like, you know, when your dog finds, like, a really nasty dead bug outside, and he's, like,

so excited to show it to you. Like, that's me. I love it. Like, I made, I made a little discovery last week that I'm, that's going in next week's episode, like, over the moon. Just like, out of control excited. I found something crazy. So I thought you were going to say your dogs, but I love this answer even more. Yes, of course, my precious dogs.

I have to tell you, one time I was walking down the shoot with my partner, and there was a guy walking two dachshunds, and my partner looks over and says, look at those two, look at those double d's and it was the funniest thing I've ever heard and every time you post a picture of your dogs I think about it like it like double ds those double ds oh uh I mean looking at a doxin I think is just an unparalleled experience I mean I love to look at any dog I love to look at a dog love to see a dog love to pet a dog love dogs but something about a wiener dog is like I mean you think I'd be over it they're like eight and a half years old now but every time I look at them it's like why do you look like that I always look like that I always look at

like they're worried about something. It's like, what would you be worried about? Like, how stumping your legs are? Buck looks like he works two jobs and can't make rent. Like, he looks so pressured by the world. Otto does not. He's never in his life. Never in his life had a single thought in his head. It's so beautiful. Like, he's, he's fine now. He prefaces by saying he's fine now, but he was completely paralyzed. In 2021, he had a spontaneous rupture of of one of his discs in his back, which is unfortunately something that's going to happen to doxins. Like, he had no existing injury.

He just, it just happened. And all of a sudden, he was completely paralyzed. And he had to have back surgery and the prognosis was bad. And so after the surgery, he was home and his back legs didn't work. And he was wearing a diaper. He was drugged up. And, like, and I, sorry, he couldn't, this bladder didn't work. So I had to manually express his bladder by, like, squeezing on it.

And the vet was like, dogs really don't like this. He's probably going to bite you. I was like, he's not. And for two weeks, paralyzed, miserable, having to have his bladder manually expressed every three hours around the clock. He never, he did not care. He didn't even seem to register with him that anything was wrong. He was just vibing. Not a thought in that doggy head.

And I think we can all learn a lot from Otto. Don't think. Just vibe. Just vibe. I aspire to be like Otto. I mean, I have to say, like, the joy that you get out of researching and breaking down these weird little guys is palpable when you listen to the show. And I do like, I mean, it sounds weird to say, but like, you can tell that it is very much a labor of love when you listen to the podcast. And is that how it's better for you?

Yes. And I'm glad that that comes through because, you know, if it stops being a thrill to, you know, to hunt and find and see. and dig and if it stops being, you know, emotionally crushing to tell the stories of harm that was done to people, then I'll stop. Then I'll stop. If I can go, you know, if there's not an episode where Rory has to edit out the takes where, like, I'm audibly crying, then, like, it's time to go. Because I think that matters. You know, I started telling these kinds of stories for my own community, right? Like I had, don't look it up,

it's still on the internet somewhere, it's not good, but years ago, it's 2018, when the man who murdered Heather Heyer went on trial, I was able to attend the entire trial, and many people were not, because it was,

the courtroom was so full of, like, you know, fucking ghouls from out of town, like, you know, CNN reporters doing their nightly hits. And so during that trial, I made this, like, little podcast that my intention was,

it was just for my community, right? So I started telling these stories for my own community. And even though that's not what I'm doing anymore, right? I'm telling them for these broader audiences. I just got an email the other day from a listener in Scottsdale who said, you know, I heard the way that you talk about Charlottesville and it's obviously very personal for you. But you talked about my city the same way.

And that meant a lot. Right. And so just being able to carry that sort of care with me that I'm telling these stories. that affected real people's lives, that continue to affect real people's lives. And if I can't do that with care, then I shouldn't do it. I am so glad that they haven't made us stop caring. Like, I'm so, like, they throw shit at us every day, but the fact that you still care and it still connects and that you're still moved by these stories,

I think really says a lot. And I'm just very glad that that passion and real empathy is still there. Because, like, I wake up every day worried that, like, is today the day where, like, I turn it off or I'm like, I've stopped feeling. I'm numbed out. I don't give a fuck. Like, do what you're going down with the ship. I worry about that in myself.

And it's just, like, very clear that, like, you have a vast reservoir of that inside. And I'm very glad for that. But it's an active practice, right? Like it's something I cultivate with intention, right? That I, it's something I have been saying for years, right? But like I work very hard every day not to become hard, right? That like I don't wish harm on even even the worst of these monsters, right? Like I don't sit here thinking, oh, I hope something really bad happens.

I don't. I don't fault you if you do. I think that's perfectly fine. It's understandable. But like what I want is for them to stop hurting people. And I don't know that wishing harm on them is good for my heart. Do you, maybe the answer is no, but do you have any advice on how we can kind of protect our softness and not lose that when things feel so awful? Asking for myself.

Yeah, asking for a friend. I don't know. I don't know. And I have found myself in telling these stories trying to. make sure to include parts of the story that are not about the monster, right? Like there was an episode months ago about Barry Black who's a Klansman from Pennsylvania who challenged Virginia's cross-burning law and won many years ago, got all the way to the Supreme Court.

And it was this terrible story about a terrible man winning. But within that story, there was the story of this older straight couple that ran the only gay bar in rural western Pennsylvania and like that they had the courage of their convictions and they stood up to the clan and fire bombings and people shooting at the bar and like it just it mattered

to them that gay people had a place to go even though they were straight they didn't have gay kids they had no connection to this community it just was something that mattered to them and just like finding someone in these stories who was so good in a way that is

I don't know It's just special. Because in every story of a monster, there is a Pat Kramer. You know, there is someone in all of these stories who did the right thing when they didn't have to. I usually end these conversations asking, like, what keeps you hopeful or are you hopeful in this moment? I feel like it might be that, like that, that, like, that even in these stories of like monsters, there are regular folks who, want to do the right thing. Regular folks who challenge these monsters and win. And sometimes the person in the story who did the beautiful thing doesn't win. Sometimes they

die. There was an episode a few weeks ago about the story of the Portland Max train stabbings in 2017 where three men were stabbed defending these two teenage girls from a Nazi and two of them died. They didn't win, right? But like what they did beautiful and hopeful and tragic. And I guess that's, you know, in times where we're all looking for hope and it's hard to find it, the knowledge that maybe you don't win, maybe I don't win, maybe we in this moment are not winning. But we will. Like even if you and I don't get to be the ones who do it or see it, we will.

And there's hope for future people like us. Sorry. Really beautiful. Sorry. I'm like tearing up. I feel like I needed to hear that. You know, we don't do it for ourselves. We do it for all of us.

Molly, the show is weird little guys. Where can folks listen? It is so needed right now. How can folks check it out? You can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. Every podcast app. I think Cooler Zone Media subscription is not yet available for Android. but you can get it on Apple.

If you want to listen to it, ad-free. But anywhere you get your podcasts, download it on all of those apps and listen to it on all of them, so, like, get more downloads. So Sophie will be proud of me. Give Molly all the downloads, y'all. Please listen.

It is a fantastic, phenomenal show. Congratulations on it. Thank you so much. Is there anything that I did not ask that you want to make sure it gets included? Gosh, I don't think so. Go to your next school board meeting. download my podcast and pedodoxin.

Yes. In that order. Molly, thank you for being here and thanks for all you're doing. I'm like genuinely so happy that there are people like you in the world and in this fight and in this. Thank you so much for having me. I had a good time. Sorry, I made us both cry. No, this was, I needed this.

Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today. episode at tangoity.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.

Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, write and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from Iheart Radio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy. Not quite. on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strong, strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.