There Are No Girls on the Internet - What Vanessa Guillén Can Tell Us About Disinformation

Episode Date: August 11, 2020

After Vanessa Guillén's tragic death, her story was used to fuel disinformation and hate online Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they hit a bogo. Well, then you got them. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode talks about sexual assault, murder, and suicide. There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Vanessa Guienne was a 20-year-old soldier in the U.S. Army.

She loved sports. She played soccer and liked to jog. In April, she went missing from the Fort Hood military base in Texas. On July 5th, her remains were confirmed to have been found. Here's her sister talking to ABC News. She was taken away from me, the most... horrible way, yet they take it if it was a joke. My sister's no joke.

My sister's a human being just like me, her, all of us. Aaron David Robinson, another soldier, killed himself as police were trying to take him into custody for her murder. Before she died, Guillen told her mother that she was being sexually harassed. Fort Hood has one of the highest rates of murder, sexual assault, and harassment in the army. Online, many other soldiers use what happened to her to come forward to share their own stories about sexual harassment in the military.

Using the call, I am Vanessa Guillen. Her family is demanding changes in how the military handles sexual harassment complaints. And protesters around the country amplified her family's demands for answers and change. Guillen's death is a terrible tragedy. And for as many people used her death to highlight important conversations about how our country's institutions fail the very people who fight for our country. others used it to fuel hate and confusion online. Researchers and digital activists are seeing the way her tragic story

is being used to fuel disinformation in Latinx online spaces. Because her killer was believed to be a black man, big Facebook pages began promoting stories about Vanessa's death as a way to sow divisions between Latinx communities and Black Lives Matter advocates. Unfortunately, when it comes to how disinformation spreads online, this isn't at all uncommon. Bad actors pick up on sensitive or emotionally charged topics involving wedge issues like race

and use them to spread fear, confusion, and suspicion among each other. They often exploit existing fractures between communities to pit marginalized groups against each other. But because we don't actually spend a lot of time talking about marginalized communities in general, let alone how our identities shape the online experience, we aren't talking about the big threat this tactic presents. And it's a problem. So the first time that I actually became aware of how targeted our folks are was in 2016 when I saw someone on my Facebook posted a picture of an ICE agent or someone who looked like an ICE agent

with sort of the ice acronym in the back of his jacket, arresting someone at what looked like was a polling location. And it was something along the lines. Someone had posted and said, be careful everyone. ICE is around the voting locations. And, you know, when I looked at it closely, I was like, well, this picture looks Photoshopped.

But that was sort of the first time that I saw something, that I was like, huh, they're actually, somebody's actually thinking this through and kind of knows the nerves of the community in terms of the fears, the fears that exist in our communities, even though we all know that, you know, undocumented people are not going to go vote, but the message that we're trying to send is like, you know, immigration is doing rates around voting locations, you know,

therefore people might just be fearful of going because, you know, some folks are living mixed status families and so on and so forth. So that was sort of the first time that I saw something and it just made me pause and think about the level of disinformation that was spreading. targeting the Latino community. Vanessa Cardenas is a longtime activist and policy expert. She's seen the way that disinformation online plays on our community's fear to create confusion.

But when she saw the way Geyen's story was being used online, she was shocked. So that was actually really shocking because obviously the Vanessa Gillian case has touched such a nerve in the community in the sense of, you know, this old year that, you know, had dedicated her life per country. So I guess I would say, you know, probably like two weeks,

well, maybe like a little bit right after they identify the suspect of the case. You know, I would say days after it. I started seeing some of these pictures that memes about, pretty much about the, you know, the suspected killer. and just driving this message of, you know, black and brown tensions and just amplifying the sort of the message, oh, you know, where is the Black Lives Matter movement when it comes to a Latina that has been killed by a black person?

So that was, again, really eye-opening, but I also feel it was, at least for me by then, I was already just, I've been aware more of sort of the disinformation that's been spreading. So I was not surprised. But again, I think it just speaks to the level of this strategy that's out there about amplifying fear, distrust, and just creating wedges between these communities, which I think we're going to see more of.

And these bad actors are really using every opportunity they can to actually, you know, create these wedges. Facebook groups with big followings and reach made posts about Guienne's death asking why the Latinx community should support Black Lives Matter when a black man killed one of their own. The intention is pretty clear rather than amplifying her important story

and her family's calls for justice and change, it's an attempt to use her story to so mistrust and animosity between marginalized communities. Why? Researchers say it has to do with the upcoming election. Acoba Lakona is the disinformation research search lead at Eki Slavs, a group that works to build an active Latino electorate. His team saw pretty much the same thing she did.

That Gien's story was being used to criticize Black Lives Matter and the protests that followed the death of unarmed black people like George Floyd by police. We started seeing conservative Latinx accounts, including Spanish language pages, trying to build racial tension between black and Latinx communities after they found her body and her death was confirmed. And so we saw conservative Latinx actors starting to criticize Black Lives Matter for not protesting her death and for staying silent. And, you know, after they found her body, the man who was linked to her murder killed himself either the same day or the next day. And so we saw conservative Latinx accounts promoting, you know, race blindness around game by amplifying the fact that the killer was a black man and that, you know, they started promoting all lives matter narratives and things like that.

So we saw, you know, different memes comparing the black man who killed Ian to the white police officer and essentially saying, you know, promoting a narrative that race has nothing to do with Floyd's killing. Or we also saw bad actors, you know, asking why Latinos weren't, we're protesting for BLM, but weren't protesting for other Latinos like Vanessa. And so, you know, there was a lot of racial tension building early on once, you know, reports came, once reports came out and they found her body. So do you think the people who were running these things? accounts actually cared about sharing Gien's story? I mean, I think they're definitely trying to make it like a wedge issue. And we often see, even in just other narratives, bad actors trying to, you know, seek to inflame preexisting tensions within and between communities. So, you know, part of their goal is to depress votes in more progressive communities, including the Latinx community.

And so if they can build a wedge between Black and Latinx voters, they can, you know, potentially drive some of those people to Trump in November. But I think one big problem here is that, you know, within the Latinx community, we've kind of failed to confront the anti-blackness that exists in our own community. And I think the far right definitely takes advantage of that to scope racial tension. So, you know, one thing is important that we start acknowledging the anti-blackness that exists in our community and show unity.

And, you know, we should especially be doing this because, again, like black and Latinx are not mutually exclusive, you know, the far right. and many people in the Latinx community tend to ignore the after Latinx community and so especially the right the right is effectively excluding them from their narratives and we should ignore

and I don't think we should be ignoring that so like going back to Vanessa's death specifically I think with an increase in attention on Black Lives Matter and even brands responding to current moments of racial justice we see a lot of bad actors

looking for opportunities to create division among communities of color. Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guide. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel,

help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. The worst singer in the group. The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The yard birds, right?

That's the name. The Harvard Yard. They're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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Hey, everyone. It's Ryder Strong and Will Ferrell from PodMeets World. And now the PodMeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So, yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by, um, our kids. our severe lack of survivor knowledge.

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And we're back. Facebook is a big part of how this all goes down. For instance, the pro-Trump Facebook group, The Conservative Choice, has over 100,000 followers. And many of their posts are dedicated to criticizing black celebrities like Colin Kaepernick, Black Lives Matter, and calls for racial justice. One post even accuses Facebook, the company itself, of supporting racism by telling people to avoid Latino businesses. because of an initiative highlighting black-owned business. Similarly, online, protesters calls for businesses to hire more black people get twisted into them calling for businesses not to hire Latinos.

Many of the other posts on the page are videos or images depicting violent attacks on Latinos or Latino-owned businesses by black people to drive home the idea that the Latinx community shouldn't trust or support the black community. Like a cobo, Vanessa also sees the ways that anti-Black businesses, and the erasure of Afro-Latinex identities have presented fractures and tensions in communities of color that bad actors can exploit online. So, Bresso, what kind of content have you seen online

being used to so division within communities of color? Yeah, so we're seeing a lot of stories, for example, of black men violently attacking Latino men, you know, very graphic, very violent post pictures. That's one thing. And I should say something also, Bridget, that is that we know that there are black people in the Latino community. Like we have a rich history of Afro, you know, of African descent in the community,

whether it's the Caribbean or Peru. And I'm from Bolivia. And even in Bolivia, we have Bolivians who are of African descent. So, you know, but the way this, this information efforts, you know, what they're trying to do is just, you know, make us look like the other, right? Like separate us. So you do have sort of, like I was saying, this really graphic post, just amplifying violence that is incurred, that is in how they describe it

or in how they post it, you know, by black men. There's also a lot of content out there about painting the Black Lives movement about, you know, that is violent. They have a lot of content that's showing, for example, that the Black Lives Movement protesters are destroying churches or burning Bibles. So really going at sort of, you know, some of the themes of, you know, a Latino community, it's very, you know, faith center.

And so they're trying to sort of agree and go at this pressure points and hit those nerves where the community, on things that the community cares about. We are, on the Vanessa Gillian case, there's just been a lot of content out there, amplifying that her, that the alleged killer was black and promoting the all lives matter narrative and questioning how come the black lives movement doesn't show up for Latinos when Latinos are being killed and so on and so forth.

So that's the type of content we're seeing now. And again, we know that every time there's a flash point or every time there's something that's happening just at a national level or even at the local level, I mean, There was some posts, I think it was, I want to say in Louisiana, about just about the Black Lives Matter movement. I think there was a demand that, you know, all businesses should hire people of color. And, but how they were, how the bots or the sort of the disinformation about actors were trying to frame it was that the black lives movement were forcing Latino business owners to hire. to hire, to hire, you know, non-Latinos. So things like that, right?

So they're trying to, again, press this really specific issues in the community where they know that it hits a nerve and just amplify those. And we know we're going to be getting more of those as things get just more heated as we come closer to the election. All truly blessed at the same time to have a leader like President Trump, who is a builder. Bad actors online seize on conversations that require sensitivity or nuance to talk about, just like they had no problem seizing on Guy and Steph to push harmful narratives online. After Goya's CEO faced backlash for praising Trump earlier this year,

some accounts purporting to belong to Latino social media users, used it to spread accusations of a mob of PC bullies attacking a hardworking community of color. But Win Black, Palante, a group that trains voters to identify, identified disinformation, found that some of the accounts pushing this narrative were actually bots. Online, the Goya controversy appeared to boil down to Black Lives Matter versus the Luttex community. Ashley Bryant works with Win Black Palante, and she says social media platforms aren't doing enough to curb the spread of this kind of disinformation. We just experienced a couple weeks ago when the Goya CEO decided to, you know, decided to

share his support for Trump. And that became a controversy in itself, but also unleashed a right-wing operation around, you know, trying to really disparage the true message. You know, Julian Castro and AOC, you know, really stepped up and shared, you know, if you share the values of Trump, you are not supporting our community. And, you know, we saw a bot be unleashed. on Facebook within, you know, a couple of hours. And it took a couple days before Facebook was able to actually remove these, you know, fake comments, fake agents. And our operations saw it within a day, right? And so it's just, you know, there's hundreds of people in their organization that are allegedly focused on this.

But yet we were able to identify that these were bots in just under a couple of hours. And so, you know, it really is disheartening to see that these companies aren't really ready to step up into this moment. This isn't a partisan issue, right? Misinformation and disinformation is not a political issue. It is literally to suppress entire communities that need to exercise their right to vote. And if these tech companies don't see it that way, you really have to question what their purposes are. Vanessa also saw the way that conversations around Goethe's. oversimplified the narrative online.

But she says the narrative's pushing division, even when Trump himself picks up on it, probably won't resonate much with most folks in the Latinx community. I mean, I think they're trying really hard to sort of make the connection. Obviously, even the Trump administration right picked up on it, getting Ivanka to post that ridiculous tweet with her holding a kind of Goya being. Again, I think they're just sort of trying to answer. amplify this wedges and just really, in the case of Goya, you know, I think that the average Latino who's, you know, again, losing their jobs because of COVID and just trying to figure out how they're going to survive this pandemic, this is not something that resonates with them.

But I do think, again, there's online, there's just this effort to say, you know, Democrats are against business owners. Democrats are trying to shut this down. when we know that that was not the case. I mean, the thing that people had issue with were the comments of the Goya president who, again, is supporting Trump. And Trump, we know, is driving a very divisive and just really anti-Latino agenda.

So that's the point. And I think part of this, again, this is this information effort is just to confuse the truth, right? It's just to take attention from the real issues and just focus on sort of these specific narratives that benefits them. And it goes along to sort of their overall frame

that Democrats are socialist, the Democrats, you know, don't believe in God, that Democrats, you know, are just driving a socialist agenda and they don't want anyone to be successful. So, again, it just goes off the broader narratives that are trying to push. Once an official Trump Facebook page, or even Trump himself,

signal boosts these narratives, they can spread far and wide. Sometimes it's not even helpful to know where it's coming from because anything that's getting a lot of engagement it's going to circulate pretty far. You know, like Trump, for example, is the biggest amplifier of disinfo and it allows other bad actors to follow him, which can, you know,

really increase conversations around certain topics. But, you know, when it comes to Latinx spaces, there's a network of conservative Latinx Facebook groups that are part of this movement called Lexit. And they tend to work together and coordinated attacks across their network of pages. So the Lexa movement itself, it gained prominence in 2018 as an effort to help Latinos exit the Democratic Party or the left

and kind of embrace more conservative values. There's actually another one called Lexit, which is a little more popular, and it's kind of equivalent for the black community and trying to push more black people to embrace conservative values. But the network of Lexit Facebook pages, they have a wide range in their audiences. So depending on certain Facebook pages,

Some have hundreds of thousands of followers. Others have tens of thousands of followers. But they frequently share, you know, misleading and factually incorrect narratives. And they tend to coordinate within each other, but also with the Latinos for Trump Network, which is an official, like, Latinx page for the Trump campaign. So, you know, when they're able to coordinate with each other, they're able to, you know, push narratives to more feeds and allow more people to see it. You might expect to see messages about people on the left being godless social.

who hate hardworking business owners from a Facebook page that is explicitly advocating for Trump. But Akobo says that pages that appear to be nonpartisan can sometimes present an even bigger threat when it comes to the spread of harmful narratives online. Yeah, so I think the reality is that we often see less partisan Latinx pages help spread disinformation, especially around conversations that either resonate

with the Latinx community or conversations in the mainstream media. And the real problem is that these nonpartisan spaces, they often become more dangerous in the far-right spaces because they appear to be more trustworthy messengers, and people tend to believe or trust what these pages are promoting. So, I mean, even around narratives around Guyan, it reached less partisan Latinx spaces.

And for example, I saw one Facebook page that was intended to bring, you know, Mexicans together, and it has hundreds of thousands of followers. And they're typically posting, you know, more cultural type things. But they started posting narratives around being that appear to try to build tension within the Lannix community. And again, so like when they do that, these, the people who are following these pages, they start, you know, believing some of these messages because, you know, they're not in those pages for partisan reasons. So these less partisan online spaces that are created where people feel like they are a part of a community.

But then disinformation comes in. like the stuff around Guillain, they're more likely to believe these narratives. One of our concerns as we look at how this information is spreading is the fact that we've seen some of this content migrate from very partisan pages to non-partisan pages, especially around the Vanessa Gillian case and her murder and all of that. we saw, for example, a lot of Mexican organizing pages, you know, that hometown associations and people who really were following the case super closely to start picking up some of these, right? And they have, you know, thousands of retweets and that's the concern, right? And again,

it's because it is, I think also the message for us for progressives is that it is so important. important to magnify our message, our message of solidarity, our message of supporting each other's movements, our message of, you know, that we're all in this together. And I think that is the real, that's the real challenge for us, because we're not going to be able to, you know, what was happening on the right or in this circles or among these bad actors, we're not really going to be able to minimize that. What we can do is inoculate ourselves and our community against it, and that is by building trust affirmatively and intentionally and elevating trusted voices so that when somebody sees this, you know, this post, they are like, wait, but, you know,

I saw some, but some, another post from someone in my community that I respect and I know, and they are posting positive content that speaks about unity. So I think for us, that's the challenge and how are we magnifying the positive vision and the positive content to actually inoculate ourselves and inoculate our communities from this content?

And it's not easy. I'm not saying, you know, and I think progressives right now we have our hands full, but I think that's the challenge that we need to create content, amplify content, not go down the rabbit hole, You know, one of the actually the hardest things about this information that we often share with progressives is don't amplify it.

Because, and that is actually harder than it sounds because sometimes people in the effort not to amplify it, they actually retweet it, you know, because they're reposted. You know, because they're reposted, because they're trying to debunk the claim. But just by retweeting about it or reposting, you're actually, even if you're saying this is not true, you are in fact getting more eyes on that. post and that's you know that's the problem more after this quick break another podcast from some s nl late night comedy guy not quite unhumor me with robert smigel and friends me and hilarious guests from jim gaffigan to bob odin kirk to daviderman help make you funnier this week my guest snl's mikey day and head writer streeter sidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter the worst singer in the group the worst yeah me

Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open.

Since you guys are middle-aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You love me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. 844-8-4-8-4-I-heart. That's 844-8-4-I-Hart. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah.

You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast, and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we're dedicating a series to understanding the mind when it struggles. I'm joined by doctors, researchers, and those with lived experience. We'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel, Abel.

about anxiety. I started living in my car and then my car got stolen. I was shoplifting, I was having panic attacks, I was agoraphobic. And making it through hardship. To be present is a learned skill and it's hard to be present. We'll talk with John Nelson about clinical depression and the brain implant that saved his life.

What I learned is that procedure made me happy because I'm disease-free. And we'll talk with leading experts like Judd Brewer about anxiety. and John Hirschfield about obsessive-compulsive disorder and the science of how the brain can change. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course and what we can do about it.

Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back to it. Talking about disinformation online is difficult. And because of the nature of algorithms, when you try to respond to correct the record, you could actually be accidentally amplifying it because you're giving it more engagement.

It's also important to keep in mind that this isn't just stuff happening online. Disinformation has real consequences because it translates to real-world behavior. And right now, with the Latinx community representing a growing and important voting bloc, it has big implications for the upcoming election. Akobo says this kind of disinformation

is meant to push Latinx voters to either vote for Trump or to not vote at all, like that phony picture of immigration arrests outside of polling places that Vanessa mentioned earlier. This is kind of personal for me. I've seen the way dangerous disinformation has impacted my own community. Communities of color have good reason to be skeptical

of our political and medical institutions. Institutions that historically, we can't always trust. But COVID has just made everything worse. I see memes spreading false information about COVID in the election, being shared by people that I love, and it just makes me feel so frustrated. Yeah, you talked earlier about the importance of inoculating your community against disinformation, and I really felt that. You know, my people are black, we're from the South. When it comes to things like voting, it is not always as easy as just going to vote. You know, in these states,

there are voter ID laws and other kinds of barriers to just going and casting your ballot. So I really see a lot of disinformation being spread around voting, and particularly now with COVID. I've seen a lot of elders in my own community posting things that I know are rooted in this very real fear around COVID. And I understand where it comes from. You know, COVID has ravaged black and brown community. So these folks are, like, their concerns are very valid. It's been a frustrating challenge to acknowledge and validate. these very real fears in my own community

while also not letting people that I care about give over to fear and spread harmful, incorrect information because they're fearful. It's been a challenge. No, and I so connect with you on that point, and I can totally relate. You know, I am first generation. Most of my family or like my aunts and uncles,

they came here when they're adults. So they are just, you know, this is a, I think it's really important for us to realize that this is a very difficult moment. It is a very confusing moment, you know, and I think especially the older generation, they're just like, they're just don't know what's happening, you know, and they're fearful for the future. And they are, you know, they see what's happening, you know, in our country with Trump. They see COVID. They see their employment gains being erased. They see their incomes being erased. And then their are held, you know, we are.

the communities that are feeling the brunt of the impact of the pandemic. Now, on top of that, you add this whole, you know, the new process of vote by mail, right? It's a new process for a lot of folks. They're not familiar how to, you know, request a ballot. They have never voted by mail, many of them. And then the other piece of this is even for young people. Like, oh, yeah, they don't carry around a book of stamps like some of us did, right? So when you think about it, you know, it really presents a lot of.

lot of challenges. And that's why, you know, I think that, again, part of our challenge as progressives is, you know, how are we, what voter education efforts are we implementing, even in this era of COVID when everything has to be done virtually? I think that's going to force us to innovate, but also to have those conversations that we've been putting off, because I do believe that the best way to inoculate people is to just have an honest conversation. And you're not going to be able to convince your aunt or uncle the first time. But I think just starting to have those conversations about what's happening in our country, you know, why their voice is so important in how this process is changing.

And just repeating that message over and over again, I think it's one of the most effective strategies. And again, like I said earlier, the best way to inoculate yourself is like when you have a trust, messenger. When you have someone who's in the community, who people go to for information, those are, I think, those are the people that are going to help us face this really onslau of this information because they are the ones that the community listens to. And that's why we need to empower those folks with the tools that they need and information that they need and, you know, just help drive that message in that positive message that I was speaking about earlier.

So what can everyday people do to help curb the spread of disinformation and misinformation, particularly in marginalized communities? Well, the first thing I would say is just really be careful about what you are amplifying online. One might seem harmless to you. It's probably not harmless, right? So just really always be mindful of your sources and the messages that you are posting. So that would be the very first thing.

The second thing is, you know, it's informing yourselves, especially when we talk about voting because we know that's actually going to be a big target of the attacks and the disinformation moving forward, especially as we get closer to election and especially because these new processes around vote by mail. So really informing yourself about the deadline. and the requirements on voting absentee or voting by mail so that you can share that information with your community and your loved ones. And the third thing is, again, you know, just trying to amplify a positive message, a message of unity and solidarity. I think if we do that,

it will go a long way because right now but actors are trying to amplify fear. Therefore, where we need to amplify a positive message, a positive vision for our movement and for our country moving forward. Ashley's team at Win Black Palante is taking this message to heart, rather than waiting for tech leaders like Mark Zuckerberg to do the right saying

and curb the spread of harmful disinformation on their platforms, her team has established a disinformation war room to train black and Latinx voters and other grassroots advocacy organizations to spot disinformation themselves and provide the information. and provides messaging tools to counter it with accurate information without amplifying it.

Our strategy is really teaching people that we don't want to amplify the misinformation, right? That is counterproductive. But what we do want to do is put in the space counter narratives while also educating folks. And so we have a daily war room where we bring our team together to go over analysis, go over our research briefs. And so it really adds another level of authenticity because it's not just, you know, our campaign that's trying to come in and talk to folks, but we're working with these organizations that have created a sense of community with their, not just their online audiences, but, you know, the citizens within their regions. And we're able to really spread this message of like, look, this is how you identify. These people are trolls.

They are bots. They are not trying to appeal to you in any way beyond. trying to mislead you, and you should know this. And the only way to fight back is to register and vote. Lusely translated, the slang term Palante means to go forward. And Ashley's team at Win Black, Palante, are working to help communities of color go forward stronger in solidarity. You know, I can't help but notice that your organization has two names, Win Black and Palante. You know, we see these narratives being pushed by bad actors that the Lexington. to next community in the black community, we can't work together. We have to be living in fear of

of each other. We have to be suspicious of each other. Not only does this framework obviously erase the fact that there are plenty of Afro-Latinas out there, but it's also just not true. And I guess my question is, how do we get to a place where we can present the truth that our communities are stronger together? Absolutely. I mean, you took half my answer in your last sentence because simply that's the truth. We are stronger together and they know that. And so they want to do anything to divide these two communities. And, you know, it's simply just disgusting, quite honestly. I mean, we most recently, we're seeing this misinformation around, you know, the Black Lives Matter movement did put out a letter that was, that was kind of describing

some of their demands. And we're seeing a lot of right-wing operatives that are boiling it down, taking out a lot of the context within the letter and sharing that the Black Lives Matter movement are against immigrants or they are doing mafia tactics, if you will, which is simply just not the truth. And they're spreading these untruths in a very broad manner. And so, you know, it's really important for us. And I'm glad that you underscore the Palante because we do have a Latinx focus. And because we want to bring our two communities together in this fight, there's so many critical issues that both communities share, right? But also, neither of these communities are monolithic. And it's really almost embarrassing to see that a lot of these operatives

think of our communities as such. And so they're doing these tactics to really, you know, it's almost like this distributed racism to really pit the, these two communities against each other. And so we're really building a sense of let's educate black voters, Latinx voters. Let's educate folks on what are the issues that really matter to us? Who are the leaders in this space that are supporting our issues, are supporting our values? And then also recognizing that, again, we're not monolithic. We need to speak to voters as individuals.

And we're not just pitting everyone against each other. We're working under an administration right now that is trying to divide this country at every turn. And so it's really important that as we are mobilizing and reaching voters, that at every step of the way we are trying to unite folks under one goal, which is to make sure that we have a democracy that represents our communities, that represents our issues, and that is going to fight to actually move our communities forward. Vanessa Guillaen deserved better. And today, she deserves better than having her story, feel mistrust, and hate in our communities.

And we too deserve better than being fed the myth that our communities can only exist in conflict with one another. Our oppression, like our freedom, is all linked. And until we're all free, none of us is free. To make sure that you and your community have the right information you need to vote, go to vote.org. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangoody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.

It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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