There Are No Girls on the Internet - Yoga is for everybody and every body with Jessamyn Stanley!

Episode Date: August 19, 2022

Author, yoga teacher, advocate Jessamyn Stanley is using the internet to open up spaces for every body to see themselves represented in yoga and fitness. Check out The Underbelly: https://theunderbelly.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This week on Crimless, Rory and I welcome a very special guest. When I did a podcast, I wear my sleep masks. I like what this is going. So if you guys will indulge me. That's right. The incredibly talented and hilarious Will Ferrell on an episode dedicated to crimes committed by people named Will Ferrell.

You're good for 300 crimes? Yeah. We got two. I'm ready to go right up to present day. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The yoga of everyday life. The yoga of not cutting someone

off in traffic, the yoga of not like wanting to bust a cap in somebody's ass because they said the wrong thing at the wrong time. Like all of that, those moments are the moments where I'm like, wow, yeah, I'm glad that I'm glad that I'm breathing. There are No Girls on the Internet as a production of IHeart Radio

and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. During the pandemic, I got super into yoga. I love that I could just roll out a mat and do it on my kitchen floor. You know, it felt. really accessible. Yoga should be for everybody. And as much as I love it, a lot of times I have to admit that sometimes it doesn't feel like it's for every body. And I think that can be true of a lot of fitness in general. It can feel really exclusionary if you're not thin and white. And sometimes

it can be really hard to see yourself represented in the fitness space at all. Luckily, yoga teacher, author, advocate, and entrepreneur Jessamine Stanley is using the internet to change that. You know, I never set out to have the platform that I have now. I started sharing my yoga practice on social media because I wanted to find a connection to a yoga community outside of my house. I felt very, I don't know if ostracized is the right word, but I definitely did not feel included in my local yoga community in North Carolina. And so I started sharing my yoga practice on social so that I could connect with other

practitioners and be like, is this how you're practicing triangle pose? Like, how do you feel about down dog splits? You know what I mean? Like, I was really just like wanting to connect with other people. And so to me, to share my practice doesn't really feel like I'm, it doesn't feel like anything more than existing. It feels like I'm just here. And the internet is a really safe place for introverts like me to make community and to find the people that we're looking for. And that is really where I land with it. And it helps because there is so much that comes along with living in a marginalized body and showing your life. And I think that if I had not set out with those intentions, I think that my perspective on it would be a little bit different, could be different anyway.

What was the process of Jessamine connecting with yoga for the first time like? So I literally never cared about yoga at all. One of my aunts was obsessed with Bikram yoga when I was in high school. And so she convinced me to go to a class with her when I was 16 and I hated it. I thought it was the worst thing in the entire world. And then when I was in graduate school, a friend of mine suggested, that I joined her at a class. And at that point, my life had changed quite a bit.

And I was going through a period of depression. And I'm prone to depression. So it was one of many waves. But she was like, oh, my God, come be yoga. You're going to love it. And I really thought of yoga as being something that thin white women do. I didn't really think it had anything to do with me. And even when I went to class, I was like the fattest person, one of the only black people.

It was a very alienating experience for me. But what I didn't realize until I was actually in the room was just how often I tell myself no. So like what would happen is that I would be, and this was also in a bechrome yoga studio, which is a style of hot yoga. And the only reason that I really bring it up now is that in bechrome yoga studios, they have mirrors. This is not common, I think, in general with yoga. But in this particular style, they use mirrors. And so I'm looking at myself. in the mirror. And I'm just judging myself so harshly. I was saying, I'd be like, like, you have

no business being here. Everybody around you can see that. The teacher knows you shouldn't be here. And I'd be looking at everybody else practicing the postures. Like, they can do it. They know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. So I shouldn't even be here. And, like, I would get to a place of, like, not even trying the postures. Like, I would see the teachers start the posture. And I'd be like, well, I'm not going to do that. And after a certain point, I thought, so are you going to spend the whole 90 minutes doing this? Or like, I mean, because you paid to get here. So you could do this for 90 minutes or you could just try. Maybe you fall down. Maybe the teacher sees that you fell down and they're like, she doesn't know anything. Maybe all the other students see you and they're like,

she doesn't know anything. Even knowing all of that, maybe you could still just try. And it wasn't even so much about having that experience on my yoga mat. It was really noticing all the other parts of my life where I do that, where I say, like, I'm not even going to try. Why I try to do that thing? I can't do that thing. And yoga really became a place where I was able to practice jumping over barriers or giving myself the permission to run into a wall and to see what happens when I actually look at myself in a really honest and authentic way and allow all of my truth to be there, the parts that I don't like especially. And honestly, that is why I still continue to retreat to my yoga practice, is that it is the practice ground for me to find stability and strength in my life. But I definitely did not understand it.

Like, I'm talking about this like esoterically now, but I did not understand it that way at the time. At the time, I was like, I don't hate this. It makes my body feel good. I'll keep doing it. And honestly, that pushed me through like five years of practice, was just being like, I'm just going to keep doing this because it makes me feel good. So that's where I started for sure. Wow.

I have so much to say. Side note, my first time ever doing hot yoga, it was several years ago. And a friend of mine who was very fit was like, oh, come do hot yoga. And so I was like, oh, I don't know what that is, but sure. when I arrived, I was like, oh, I thought she meant hot, like, oh, it's so hot right now. She meant, literal, like heat. She meant temperature. Yeah. No.

I said, like, oh, I got to get something out of my car and I left. No, that's, oh, my God, I totally identify. My very first yoga class, it was hot yoga. And the room is heated to, like, 105 degrees. It's, like, outrageously hot. And I was sweating from places that I truly did not know the human being swept from. Like I was sweating from the tops of my fingers and inside my eyebrows. And I made it like a third of the way through the class before I was like, I cannot be in here.

Like this is, these people don't know me. And they told me at the beginning of class, don't walk out once you've already entered the room. But I was like, these people don't know me. I have got to get out of here. This is crazy talk. And I left the room and I immediately felt amazing because there was air conditioning. But then when I went back into the room, I learned why you should not walk out of your walk out. walk out of a hot yoga room like that because the temperature change in your body is so extreme

that it can have all kinds of negative effects. And for me, it was nausea. And I eventually just walked out and I was like, I'm never coming back here. It was seven years before I went back and tried it again. So I feel like that's really common that people will try yoga and they're like, this is the worst. Somebody told me I was going to come and feel calm and all I feel is terrible. And all I can say is that I feel you and that calm is a multifaceted concept. But yes. Oh, my gosh. I mean, it kind of, it reminds me of what you were saying about how the experience of doing yoga

really kind of freed you up to really see yourself, to fail, to hit walls, to, you know, fully kind of embrace a kind of humanity to yourself. And I think that, you know, I love yoga, but it took, it was a while to take. get there. And I think that there's this misconception that you're going to do it and that like, you know, it's going to, like a white light is going to feel the room and then all of a sudden you're going to be at peace and calm. Yoga can be fucking hard. And you can really feel things physically, emotionally, mentally that really challenge you. And that's kind of part of the practice. It's not a magic bullet that automatically makes you feel then or calm. But I feel like it's often

sold that way. Exactly. I mean, it's really like a synthesis. It's a synthesis of an idea that while I definitely understand it, it also leaves so much the imagination and it leaves out a lot. So, like, when you're saying you feel calm at the end of yoga, this is like I felt so calm at the end of my practice today. What I felt was that my body had been stretched to a place where my mind could relax and I could be present. And in order to do that, there is an agitation of the body that's necessary. And it just kind of depends how much agitation you want and need. For some of us, one posture is sufficient. That is more than enough.

And really, like, I talk about this a little bit in my second book, Yoke, my yoga of self-acceptance, but you really only need, like, one posture to practice yoga, and it's whatever posture you're in currently because all parts of life are yoga, ultimately. But if you are wanting to really, like, give your body a stretch and also sit in meditation for a long period of time, it's helpful to do a variety of postures that will allow you to arrive in a place

where you're a little bit more calm. But what that looks like can be very difficult at times. And the difficulty is happening on purpose because life is difficult. Every part of this life is so hard. And I think that we get conditioned to expect for things to be easy. and we look for things to be happy and good. And so whenever things are challenging or difficult or hard or bad, we say that's not how things should be.

Things should be, I should be happy all the time. But nobody's happy all the time. You have to experience the darkness in order to even appreciate the light. That is so true. And honestly, I think it comes up in my own love, hate, sometimes relationship with yoga. But also, I guess fitness more broadly. You know, I love yoga. I do it.

I start every good day I start with yoga. If I'm able to get on the mat, you know, that's a good day. But I also, and most of my yoga happens by myself, sometimes with your videos, I have to say. But I do it mostly in my apartment. And I think part of that is that for me, the experience of getting into yoga was also the experience of things like cultural appropriation or like whiteness and thinness really being shoved down my throat. Has this been some, has your work been a response to that? You know, I don't know about a response, but it's certainly existing within all of that.

And frankly, when I first started practicing yoga, I never allowed myself to be present to the spirituality of yoga. I focused entirely on the physicality, the postures. Because I was like, first of all, is this cultural appropriation? Because I am not South Asian, but I'm practicing something that is deeply embedded in South Asian culture and heritage. And I know that. And I'm also learning it from white people who have colonized as their job. So I'm like, should I even be doing this? Like it made me keep the practice at a distance.

But what I came to realize and something that I think is a little loophole in yoga is that ultimately, if you are really living your yoga, if you're really practicing, practicing and looking within yourself, yoga will always lead you back to your own culture. It'll always lead you back to whatever lives inside of you. And I think that that is something that is really hard to understand within the parameters of white supremacy because so much of white supremacy is about bringing us, it's all about like neutralizing individual cultures and holding the idea of whiteness on a peasant. And so that doesn't leave a lot of nuance for us to accept our own individual cultural identities.

And I think what it also encourages is white people to avoid doing the work of looking at their own wounds, internal wounds, and instead to try to appropriate or to wear a mask of someone else's cultural identity. So I think that my work has really, and it's not even, like I say my work, but it's really just like my yoga. My yoga is to accept my role in all of that. How do I personally uphold white supremacy through my own internalized racism? How do I engage in cultural appropriation? How can I understand what appreciation is? And then on the topic of appreciation, how can I appreciate the heritage of yoga and how it exists in South Asia and also appreciate my own culture and show reverence to my own ancestry and legacy? So, yeah, I don't know if it's, yeah, I don't know if that answers your question, but it's not, it's certainly something that's on my mind, for sure.

It sounds like what you're saying is it's a practice. It's like a lifelong journey, and that is part and parcel of the work. Yes, that's exactly right. That is exactly it, 100%. And that there's no landing point. There's always that if you're still here, still alive, there's still something to learn. And that that's really what I'm opening myself up to and what I hope that anyone who would ever learn about yoga in or around me. I hope that that is what they would get is that as long as you're still in the fight, you're doing it right.

Let's take a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart, streaming, radio, and podcasting.

Let us show you at iHeartadvertising.com. That's iHeartadvertising.com. Hi, everyone. I'm Cheryl Stray, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary.

I also bring a bit of advice into the mix so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We're coming into this world fighting for our lives. All I'm going to do is pull out what you already got inside. We're there to support and celebrate each other. And that's not like your story versus my story. You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it. Yep. Yep. Exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it. I'm going to go through it. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to

Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy?

That one's kind of hard, you know? Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to. try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears or tears of laughter, and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Edward back. So you probably know Rosa Parks from her work during the civil rights movement.

But did you know that Rosa Parks was also an avid yogi? Dr. Stephanie Evans, author of the book Black Women in the Ivory Tower, studies what she calls historical wellness, or how elder black women wrote and thought about self-care. For Rosa Parks, yoga was a family affair. Evans wrote that Rosa Parks learned about the power of daily morning stretches from her own mother and would practice yoga with her nieces. And Dr. Evans says that this focus on taking care of herself

was actually a part of Rosa Parks' expression of activism. What Ms. Parks teaches us is that self-care is a part of resistance. She lived to the age of 92 because she began to center her own health needs, she explained. And while we may remember Rosa Parks as being defiant and poised, images of her on her yoga mat, all smiles in bow pose are my very favorite. As a black woman, I am very much into my, you know, black woman, aunties and ancestors and the ways of which that they kind of set up a legacy of social change and social justice. I feel like I'm kind of like walking in the truth of my ancestors. And as much as I hold reverence for them,

that feeling can sometimes lead to me sort of like, I don't know, heroifying them in a way where they're not really real people. And there's this, I mean, I'm sure you know how I mean. Oh, my God, yes. Absolutely. And there's this image that I came across several years ago of Rosa Parks doing yoga. and I have it framed on my death. Yes.

Because we think of Rosa Parks as this like, you know, I think that like it's so easy to think of her as this picture in a history book or a picture on like a black history poster. And the images of her smiling and doing yoga. And in fact, she really enjoyed doing yoga a lot. She was like a, like a, she had a practice. And something about that picture just reminds me of the way that yoga and all of these other little ways that we experience physical joy and physical fullness can be a way of tapping

back into my specific cultural heritage in a way that allows me to be a bit more loving, I guess. Yes. And I would even take it a step further that when you think about the legacy of Rosa Parks and think about the work that she did, the amount of spiritual fortitude that was necessary, the strength, and the ability to see beyond the present moment, but also to be in the present moment, those are all things that come through restorative healing practices like yoga. And it's, I love, I'm so grateful for the legacy of people like her who literally were like, okay, cool, so I'm going to change history casually, but the way I'm going to do it is by practicing yoga. So that when we look at social justice works specifically, and we say like if we're all,

being present to the ways that we contribute to our communities and that we're all activists, ultimately. Then coming from that place, to heal yourself and to put your own healing journey first is the first step of activism and of social justice. That, like, there's nothing without that, ultimately. But if you're not taking care of yourself, there's no way that you can take care of anyone else. All of the horrible things in our society, whether it's capitalism, whether it's white supremacy, those forces want us to be burnt out. They need us to be completely drained and feeling like we're pouring from an empty cup all the time. And that one way that we can reclaim is to experience, you know, that spiritual and physical fullness or, you know, whatever it is that

makes us feel more whole. Like that's a way that we can sort of quietly reclaim that. And, push against all those destructive forces. That's exactly right. That is why it is so, the first thing that they come for is our spirits. It's the first thing. And our breath being connected to that, that whenever we reconnect to our breath, it is the greatest sign of strength and power and an inability to ever be silenced. And I think that it's so important as things become more chaotic, more tribal, more violent,

it's really important for us as a society to remember that to take care of yourself is the first line of defense. I love that. That's such a good reminder at a time I think, frankly, we could all use it. Always, every single day, because there's always something new. That's the other thing about now is that it's such a reminder that like, you know, nothing is forever and that the present moment is paramount. And I think it will only get harder to remember that. And so it's helpful to have the tools in place.

Yeah, I, oh, that is a word, you know, the last few years, it has felt like everything is on fire and awful. and just the reminders to breathe, reminders to be present, reminders that, you know, my own personal vibe takes the shape of like escape. So it's like if I can drink too much or find other ways to like unplug and escape. But ultimately I know what I'm trying to do is like avoid having to feel what it feels like to be in my body and be present.

And like, you know, I don't know, like as bad as things have been the last few years, I'm great. that I've been able to lean into the opportunities to reconnect with my presence and my breath and my body and all of that. Totally. Literally same. And, you know, I think that there is some, there's so many lessons to learn in escapism that I feel like are really helpful and impossible to learn otherwise. But there is always this line of like, what is it like to just try to experience your own torment and to really like just let. let the bad shit be there. Just like, it's like, yeah, it smells bad in here. That's because there's trash.

It's okay. It's no big deal. And like I feel like every, every stroke of yoga that I practiced prior to 2020 was practice for 2020, 2020 and beyond. Because I feel like literally every time that I come to my mat, that I come to my breathwork practice, especially in what I think of as the yoga of everyday life, the yoga where the yoga of not cutting someone off in traffic, the yoga of not like wanting to bust a cap in somebody's ass

because they said the wrong thing at the wrong time. Like all of that, those moments are the moments where I'm like, wow, yeah, I'm glad that I'm glad that I'm breathing. I'm glad that I can just practice like inhaling and exhaling and really just try to receive another human being. That is so much, I think. There's so much that comes from. from not accepting ourselves.

And one of the biggest things is that it means that you can't accept anybody else. And so to me, to be able to, like, just take every challenging moment as an opportunity to just receive another person and just hear where they're coming from and not try to make it about me and what I think and what I deserve and just be like, you're another human being. What are you saying? Not even like I need to do anything with what they're saying. not like I need to agree or like it, but just can I receive? And that, I think, is like, I don't know, it helps.

For sure, it helps. It's so funny to hear you say this because from watching your videos, I always think like, oh, Jessamine is such a zen-centered person. She probably never cuts people off in traffic and you're like, oh, that's part of the practice. Totally, yeah. I am a very volatile person. And I definitely, you know, I thought before. Like, what is the difference between me now and me before I practice yoga?

And I think that before I started practicing yoga, I was a little bit mad all the time. Like a little bit unsettled all the time. And even now, it's not that the anger is not still there. And certainly I mentioned depression before, but like I absolutely still experience depression, waves of depression. And it's not that it's not there. It's not that the bad shit isn't present. It's that I'm okay with it or I have the opportunity to be okay with it.

I don't have to judge myself for being complicated. I don't have to judge myself for being mean or for being problematic. Like I can just be all of those things. And I think that it is a day-by-day journey. and some days I wake up feeling it and some other days I do not. And the most important thing for me, I think always is to just like not try to cover it up. Like toxic positivity, I think is the biggest issue. Like anytime saying that like, you know, I'm just not going to think about that.

I'm going to focus entirely on the happy things. Like, no, it's got to be at least for me. And I'm a double cancer. So this is really, this may be specific like water signs shit. But like I feel like if I don't experience every emotion fully, I won't get over it. I will, it'll just fester underneath, underground. And it might not be today. It might be years in the future, but it will come out.

And it'll be worse than if I just set it straight up from the beginning. Ooh, I identify so hard. I could talk all day, but I will just say, I agree. And I see you. More after a quick break. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again.

More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started.

That's 844-8-4-Ey-Hart. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows.

Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out.

real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone. I'm Cheryl Stray, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the

inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We're coming into this world, fighting for our lives.

All I'm going to do is pull out what you already got inside. We're there to support and celebrate each other. And that's not like your story versus my story. You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it. Yep, yep, exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it.

Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get right back into it. Jessamine's work is grounded in body positivity at a time when the term can be so watered down and co-opted to the point where the very idea of body positivity can almost lose its meeting. One of the things I really was excited to talk to you about is the idea of the body positivity movement. And I love that so much of what you do is grounded in. in making space for bodies. But my question is,

do you ever feel like both body positivity and sort of wellness, like quote wellness, have been kind of commodified to the point where whatever radical meaning might have been in there? We sort of, I don't know, it just seems like it's so easily kind of turned into a happy slogan and the reality of what that kind of stuff looks like is kind of lost.

Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, I think that happens with all movements. low key, that whenever it becomes, whenever a movement is like popularized or becomes, when it starts trending, the impact of it gradually degrades. And I think specifically with body positivity, which I think of body positivity is really being like an offshoot of body, of fat, fat positivity and fat acceptance. And fat acceptance as a movement deeply radical did not start yesterday. A hundred percent has been like in the 60s and 70s. Like there's, I mean, that's, and that's me really just being kind of vague in general, but it has existed for quite some time. And body positivity, I think from

fat positivity has always been seen as like kind of a bullshit movement low key. Like I think that people in the fat acceptance movement, fat positivity, have always been critical by. positivity because it is more general. And I thought a body positivity is being like basically saying you're okay today exactly as you are. You don't need to change anything about yourself. Your body is exactly as it needs to be. And when you accept your body, then you can do anything that you want, which is a really cool message. And it's not actually about body size, which a lot of body positivity has become about. The message is not what I just said. And it becomes like, fat girls deserve the same clothes as thin girls or something along those lines.

And so it's not, and it's not noting the extent to which black, black creators in particular, black fat creators have been really instrumental in the body positivity movement being what it is now. Like, it excludes all of that. And I think that because of that, maybe bastardization is taking it a step too far, but also maybe not. Because of that certainly simplification of the message, body positivity has been co-opted by a lot of people that I think that their intentions are good, but what ends up happening is that the message just becomes watered down. It becomes diluted.

And so now, in response to body positivity, even just the idea of being positive about your body, like a lot of people push back on that. And they're like, I don't want to feel positive about my body all the time. And so from that, body neutrality has sprung up. And the idea with body neutrality is that you can be neutral about your body, that like you don't have to feel any kind of way about it. It just exists. And then you go from there. And my feeling about that is that.

body neutrality is, it's not really possible because we're not neutral. Our bodies are not neutral. We're political beings. Our bodies are radicalized from birth. And so to say that you're neutral toward your body is to really like lose responsibility for what it means for your body to show up in this world. But, you know, at the end of the day, this is maybe a niche clueless reference, at the end of the day, the more the merrier. I'm just like, okay, I feel like it doesn't really matter what you bring. It doesn't really matter how you get to the party as long as you get there. I'm like, we have to get to a place where as a people, we stop worrying about our body.

We stop talking about our body so much because right now we live in an age where like if someone's nose doesn't look the way that they think it should, then it's like their life is over and they shouldn't exist. So like we can get to a place where everybody knows that your body is the way. that it is on purpose. You are the way that you are on purpose. You're not a mistake. Then I think from that place, we can start to heal some of the deeper systemic wounds that exist in our society. Like, there's no healing of systemic racism without first accepting that your body is okay. So it's, I don't think that there's anything wrong with the movements, frankly. Like, I think that

the dilution ultimately leads to more people having a conversation about their bodies and it leads to greater change. But I do think that it's important for us to be aware of the fact that a movement or a title can't be the fullness of your identity. So that like if the movement is gone, where do your values lie now? Where do they lie then? that's such a good point and such a good way to put it and I think you're so right like it's so

the idea that you could just exist neutrally especially for black folks especially for black women it's just like it's just like it's not going to happen like I have been going through some stuff recently like I just became an aunt for the first time and I thank you

I'm an auntie to a beautiful baby girl and when she was born I kind of had to do lot of inner work to realize I had a lot of fear and anxiety around what I remember from being a black girl in the South and all of the negativity and hangups and the way that like even people in my family, even people who loved me just felt like love for them was about, it can only kind of exist as like criticism, right? Like my hair wasn't right, my weight wasn't right, this wasn't right, my clothes weren't right, my shorts were to,

for everything. And the idea of my niece being born into the world, knowing that she might get that same stuff hung on her, that I spent a lifetime working to unlearn. Like, that was really hard for me. And I think, like, I wish we could get to a place where when a little black girl is born, you're not thinking about all the ways that society is going to be so hard on her and and critique her and politicize her and judge her and sexualize her and all of these different things, I wish that was a place that we would get to, but I don't think we're there. Yeah, I think we're not quite there, but I do think that every step that's a step in the right direction. And I feel like it's so important for us to individually be doing the work

exactly as you have described, like acknowledging those parts of yourself, seeing the ways that you're like continuing the cycle, and just being like as gentle and accepting about it as possible, that I feel like is all anybody could ever ask. Like there's nothing else to be done. And that's because even as we evolve as a society and even like if we heal everything that are, at all of the wounds that our ancestors created, we're just going to make new wounds because that's what life is about. Like, it's just about having those experiences.

But it's so beautiful to notice what you're talking about and to just take that step forward to do something different. Being fat, queer, and black on the internet means people will have a lot of opinions about your body, your clothing, your diet, and really your existence overall. Something that I've really noticed a lot is that both on the internet and in real light,

I think that people feel very entitled to have opinions on bigger black bodies. And it's always these assumptions like, oh, that person can't do yoga, that person can't be healthy, that person, you know, shouldn't be eating that or wearing that. And I wonder, like, like, where do you think that comes from? Like, why do you think that when people see a bigger black body

for a lot of folks, their first knee-jerk reaction is to criticize them or to make an assumption about who they are from a screen. This is going to be a picture of a stranger. I think there is so much hatred of black people in general that I think that's a huge piece of that specific thing. I think that when it comes to fat black bodies, I think that fatness is really denigrated in every society and in all cultures, and I think especially in the black community,

black people shading other black people that fat blackness is not accepted. And I think that there is this desire often to colonize and to have an opinion about shit that really is none of your business at all. And I think that people, I think it's so normalized. And because of the medical industrial complex and all of the research around what obesity is and these health statistics, people think that they're literally like doing you a favor to say, like, that's not healthy

or like that person is doing a bad thing, et cetera. And really, I think it just points to deep insecurity in the self and the feeling that like maybe by controlling other people, you can control yourself. And it's just really, you know, I don't even really know what there is to say about it. It's just, I think it's something the human beings do to feel better about ourselves on an individual level. And it never works out that way because it always just makes you sadder.

Yeah. And you just really named one of my, like one of my biggest pet peeves, the concern trolling of like, oh, I'm trying to help them out. I'm trying to give them some advice. I'm trying to like, no, you're not. You're just being hateful. You're really, you really don't care about this person. If you did, you probably wouldn't be leaving hateful comments. Exactly. I hate it so much. It's such a pet peeve of mine. Yeah, I really feel like it just makes me sad whenever people, for whatever reason, want to lean into the negative because it means that they are really sad. Like anytime that I see trolling in general, I just think like, damn, that person is really sad. Because if you're happy or if you are, if you're feeling happy, you want for other people to feel happy. But if you're feeling sad, you want for other people to feel sad.

And I think there's a lot that we can do on an individual level and then on a collective level to be manifesting compassion for ourselves individually so that when we come up against that or see people like really just going in. I mean, people get violent with their words because they are feeling so sad and desperate. And to respond to that desperation with hope and with love and with. with compassion is a triumph. It is the opposite of war. So I feel like, I agree with you. I feel the same way. Back in January, Jessamine was on the cover of the fitness magazine, Self.

She looked absolutely incredible. But when Donald Trump Jr. posted that cover on his Instagram with the caption, What are your thoughts? Well, I don't think I have to tell you that the comments were not nice. And he knew exactly what he was doing, setting his six million followers up to knock Jessamine down. Only it kind of didn't work. I know that for you fucking Donald Trump Jr. And he did the thing that I like, it burns me up because at least haters can be like,

I'm a hateful person. Here's a hateful comment. The thing that really gets me is when someone on the internet posts a picture and then they'll just be like, thoughts question mark and i see it all the time and i'm like okay first of all if you're gonna like you know what you know what you're doing you know what you're trying to say why don't you at least just fucking say it but like the thing of like throwing a stone and hiding your hands i cannot stand it i see it all the time i hate it no it's totally small dick bullshit and i mean like honestly i'm just like i feel you i mean like when he said he was talking shit or or encouraging other

people to talk shit. I really don't know because I wasn't paying that much attention because it has happened so much and I'm just like whatever. But I feel like frankly, first of all, anytime that a white man is talking shit about my body, I'm like, okay, so you love it. That's part of the issues that you love and you feel like you can't say that. So okay, heard, got it. Talk about something that I learned from my ancestors. But I'm like, okay, I got you. But then also I'm like, oh, and then there's also a piece of me that's like thanks for the free publicity. Sounds great. I don't really have an issue with that.

But I'm also like, damn, this really pushed you. Like this really provoked you. It made you think. It made you like, like it made him, it made anyone, anyone who has that, like,

that strong of a negative reaction. I'm like, you just got pushed. You got pushed. And maybe you got pushed to the next level. Maybe you got pushed to think about things in a different way.

to see the world in a more expansive way. And that's where I feel like the onus is on me or on whoever is receiving the trolling to say, like, who am I in this circumstance? What do I stand for? Do I believe in myself? Do I think that I deserve to exist? And if that's the case, if I think I deserve to exist, then everybody else deserves to exist.

Everybody else deserves to have their opinion and post about it on Instagram and ask for feedback from other people. Everybody has that right. and what I can do is just try to find ways to enjoy it and to not be held back by it. Jessamine is continuing to build community on the internet to grapple with those very same questions. Her new digital wellness app is called The Underbelly,

where anyone can explore wellness and yoga in a way that affirms who they are and however they're showing up. So tell us about your new app, The Underbelly. How are you using it to have a different conversation about our bodies and wellness that are maybe different than you. some of the other spaces that we've seen. Totally.

I think that wellness has been defined very one-dimensionally. It's become about, like, what you look like and whether or not you fit in and whatever the wellness practice is going to do for your body or, like, what other people will think about it. And the underbelly is really about acceptance and about accepting yourself exactly as you are. Accepting your messy house, your kid that you're. you is practicing yoga on the mat with you. Maybe your dog is practicing on the mat with you.

Maybe you don't have a yoga mat. Maybe you fart compulsively. Maybe you do all kinds of things that people have told you that you should feel bad about. And the underbelly is the space where you don't have to feel bad about it. You don't have to feel bad. You don't have to explain yourself. There's no explanation needed. It is wellness without requirement.

And I think that for me, that is what I, when I first started posting my yoga practice on social media, the community of the underbelly is what I was looking for. I was looking for a place where it was okay to be different and to be unapologetically so. And that, more than anything, more than yoga specifically, more than meditation, which we do offer this. I mean, the underbelly, you can practice yoga with me that you can go to the underbelly.com and try a free trial right now if you like. But you can do practice yoga with me, practice meditation for sure. That's there. But really the space is there for. you to just be yourself and not have to make any explanations for your identity.

So I was this way before I started doing yoga. I'm sure that there are people listening who are rolling their eyes saying, okay, whatever, as if fitness or yoga or any of this mumbo-jumbo is going to help my life, what do you say to someone like that? Can you give someone who is a non-believer? Here is an easy, quick way to just try out these. practices in your own life that might make a difference. First of all, I totally feel you.

Your critique is legitimate. If you're like, that sounds like bullshit. I feel you, you're a real one. But the thing about it is, you can start practicing yoga right now with the, literally we can do it right now together if you just close your eyes and take a deep inhale and take a deep exhale. This is all, this is yoga, literally just linking together. And so if you take that a step further, I would not go out and buy a yoga mat.

You don't need to like go get books or go get like a special outfit. Literally, if you have access to the internet, just go to YouTube, look up the very first free yoga class that you can find and just give it a try. And if you don't vibe with the teacher, cut it off. Try another one. There are literally, there are so many free yoga resources on YouTube right now. And you just start and maybe let's say cut the class. You don't want to try it for yoga class.

I feel you. Just try one posture. Maybe the posture is mountain pose. Mountain pose can be practiced seated or standing. Maybe the pose is child's pose, which is essentially like, it's literally like laying like a child on the ground. Maybe it's corpse pose where you lie on your back, which truly I think is the hardest posture of yoga. Any of those postures, you just start with that one posture. And then if you want to do more, you do more.

Maybe you get down on the ground. around into corpse pose and then you want to try out cat-cow pose and before you know it, you're practicing vinyasas and down dogs and all that. But also that one posture is more than enough. And you don't even actually need to change your body from how it is right now. You can practice it, the breathwork, the connection to the pronic light force that connects all of us. That can happen from wherever you are right now. And if you vibe with it, that's great. But also, yoga is a very broad category and there are yoga components in all forms of physical movement. So if you, maybe yoga postures are not the thing for you. Like finding some kind of wellness

practice that reminds you to tune back into yourself and to listen to your own breath, that's really the point of all of it. That is beautiful. Jessamine, where can folks keep up with all of your amazing work? Totally. You can find me on social media at my name is Jessamine on most platforms. I think on Twitter, I'm at Jessman Stan. But you can find my name is Jessamine everywhere and you can find the underbelly at the underbelly yoga. You can find my podcast at Dear Jessamine. And you can get links to everything, including my books and my organization, We Go High. You can find all of that at jessmond stanley.com. Fabulous. Is there anything that I did not ask that you want to make sure it's included? Oh, my goodness. The only thing that I would add, which is what I always say, is just thank you so much.

Thank you for having me. And thank you so much to everyone who is listening. And thank you for being you. You were made this way on purpose. You are a creature of light and who you are matters. and what you bring to this world is imperative. So thank you for being with you. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoody.com slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi?

You can reach us at hello at tangooty.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangooty.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of IHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.

Tari Harrison is our producer. and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, check out the IHeart Radio app,

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