These Fukken Feelings Podcast© - Conquering Inner Demons: Emmanuel's Raw Journey Through Crisis and Porn Addiction Recovery | Season 3 Episode 334

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

How do you prepare for the unexpected twists life throws at you while managing emotions and responsibilities? Join us on "These Fukken Feelings" as we delve into Emmanuel's whirlwind experience of dealing with sick in-laws and an impending trip to a wedding, all while his wife is 36 weeks pregnant. Emmanuel shares the emotional rollercoaster of expecting his third child amidst these challenges, setting the stage for a rich discussion on navigating life's unpredictabilities.Have you ever thought about the real impact of porn addiction on relationships? Emmanuel opens up about his battle with porn addiction and the pivotal moment that led him to seek help and save his marriage. We tackle the broader issue of porn addiction, especially within religious communities, and debunk the myth that more frequent sex or porn consumption equates to happiness. Through Emmanuel's candid account, we uncover the importance of genuine intimacy over superficial pleasure and the complexities of addiction many face but few discuss openly.How do love and commitment play roles in overcoming addiction? Emmanuel's story is a testament to the transformative power of faith, vulnerability, and support in battling inner demons. We delve into practical solutions for building a supportive network, setting boundaries, and fostering deep connections. By addressing underlying emotional triggers and promoting compassionate communication, we offer insights and hope to those struggling with similar issues. Join us for an episode filled with raw honesty, powerful narratives, and a roadmap to healing and freedom.#MentalHealth #AddictionRecovery #PornAddiction #FaithAndHealing #EmotionalWellbeing #RelationshipAdvice #SupportNetwork #Vulnerability #OvercomingAddiction #IntimacyVsSuperficiality #ReligiousCommunity #CompassionateCommunication #LifeChallenges #UnexpectedCurves #TheseFukkenFeelings #PodcastEpisode #HealingJourney #CrisisManagement

you don't have to be positive all the time it's perfectly okay to feel sad angry annoyed frustrated scared and anxious having feelings doesn't make you a negative person it doesn't even make you weak it makes you human and we are here to talk through it all we welcome you to these fucking feelings podcast a safe space for all who needs it grab a drink and take a seat the session begins now what is up guys welcome to these fucking feelings podcast i am micah got producer crystal in the building and i'm gonna tell y'all later check out the tiktok I'm going to tell y'all later, check out the TikTok because I'm going to tell y'all how she broke everything. And then we got our special guest today, Emmanuel. What's up, Emmanuel? How are you doing? How are you guys doing? I'm doing great. Glad to

be here. Thank you for having me. All right. So now just catch you off guard. What is one thing that surprised you today? One thing that surprised me today? Well, unfortunately, I'm heading out of town for a wedding tomorrow and my in-laws are supposed to be helping out with my wife who is 36 weeks pregnant and they just said they have a fever. So she's going to be potentially home alone for a few days while I'm out of town, or I might not be going to Nashville. Let's just put it that way. So we'll see what happens. That definitely was a surprise. Yeah, definitely a surprise. I thought you were were gonna hit me up with a good surprise but parents by the time this episode airs you guys are gonna be good right yes absolutely and then

um wow 36 weeks pregnant i don't know how pregnant that is like i'm trying to like in my head i know i always try to do the math too i'm like like, it's very pregnant. I know that. It's getting very gross. Wow. So it's first kid or more kids? This will be our third child and we're going to have a three-year-old, a two-year-old and a one-year-old eventually once she turns one. So yes, things are going well in that department. And then soon, I think our next project is a vasectomy. So we'll figure that out when that time comes. But yes. You know, it's funny.

So my brother had one and then we were just that out when that time comes. But yeah, you know, it's funny. So my brother had one. And then we were just talking to one of our co workers and he had one. So it just shocks me to hear I didn't know that this was something that men did. Like I knew it existed. I just didn't know like men actually signed up for this. But I do know a guy that has 34 kids. 34 kids? Yeah. And not all with the same woman, of course. I hope not. And I don't mean to say it like that. Okay, I'm going to shut up now. Like, not with the same women, of course.

Yeah, he has 34 kids. And he knows all 34 of his kids, which is, I'm like, I can't even tell you 34 friends. Wow. True. Right. So, I don't even know 34 things I could tell you but yeah he has 34 kids so but it got to be exciting for you yeah it's very exciting and you know they've just been such blessings we got two little boys we're gonna have a little girl and um yeah it's just been

absolutely incredible better than i ever could have imagined you already messed up the rest of her life she got two older brothers i'm saying they should try for one more and be another girl. Yeah, we had them so close to each other. It was just like, I think at this point, Becca was just like, you know what? Four might as well be 34. You know, that's too many. And so we're done. She's tapping out.

You got terrible twos. Yes, we do. All right. We're going to get to the reason why we're here. You over tapping out. You got terrible twos. Yes, we do. All right. We're going to get to the reason why we're here. You over here making my eye twitch. I don't have chorus, as you can tell. I'm not a parent at all. So I don't even own a pet.

Right? So, yeah. I barely can take care of myself. So, Emmanuel, one thing that we do here is we like our guests to introduce themselves because we feel like no one can tell your story better than you. So tell our audience a little bit about yourself. Well, thank you. My whole story is this.

You know, I got handed the iPhone when I was 15 and I was off to the races. I started looking at porn right away. And I always just said, you know, once I get that girlfriend, then I'll be done. And once I get married, then I'll be done. And that date just kept getting pushed out, pushed out, pushed out till it almost destroyed my marriage. And it wasn't until I had one moment of strength and vulnerability, excuse me, and asked for help that I was able to overcome this problem. And so that's what I'm here today talking about is my wife and I help people overcome porn addictions as a team.

Right. Which is crazy because you never think when I think of addiction, porn is, well, I know Kurt Franklin, he just had a little revelation that he was like addicted to porn. So I think I've heard it, heard it, you know, before, but I mean, still when I think about addictions, two things that don't come to mind are fruit roll-ups and porn, you know? So, but it's cool. I mean, not cool, but fruit roll-ups and porn you know so but so it's cool i mean not cool but it's quite easy to hear you know that addiction yeah it's a huge issue you know 57 percent of uh senior pastors 64 of youth pastors struggle with this and if you look at men 18 to

24 76 percent of church-going men struggle with this so this is an issue that's going on all over the world, in the church, in the secular community, everywhere. And people need to start learning about why this isn't maybe a good thing to be watching at all. So that's what we're going to be diving into, I'm sure, plenty today. Definitely. Now, it's pretty funny. I was driving here and I was talking to a friend of mine and I was telling him basically every day he wants to know what we're what we're talking about on the podcast. And I'm like, bro, I don't even know yet. But I would tell him a little bit about your background. And I was like, it's crazy. Number one, this is going to be the first time we have this conversation. But number two, I actually know a couple where porn actually saved their marriage. And yeah, so porn was actually, they went to couples therapy and it was something that that therapist thought they should do together.

And, you know, here it is six years later and they're like, you know, we never know what happens behind closed doors, of course. But, you know, I know that they were going from she was sleeping on my couch to now they happily married again. So, you know, it's pretty, I guess it goes to show there's a good and bad with everything, right? You know, one of the interesting things with that is this is a concept that comes up quite often is, you know, we watch it together and it's fun and it's good. And just because something is fun doesn't always mean it's good. You know, cocaine can be very, very fun, right? Not that I'm a fan

by any means, but for people who do it, they'll tell you, Hey, I'd love some more, but just because we want something doesn't always mean it's good. And so we have to be careful with that. And we have to look at when we're looking at porn with a partner, right? The idea is it's more fun. We're having better sex. And that may be very true, but is it about getting a better orgasm or is it about having more oneness, having love, connection, intimacy? Because when we're focusing on a screen, we're not focusing on each other. And that's actually slowly bringing us further apart. So what many people have seen is that it does help initially, and it can be very fun. Like I said, I'm not wanting to say it wasn't

fun. I did it for 15 years. I watched porn, but we have to be careful about why are we going to this in the first place? Because if we think about it, no one could ever compete versus all the porn that's out there. I mean, no woman could ever compete. And so we have to look and we go, why do we want to have sex in the first place? Is it an animalistic urge? Are we looking for love connection and intimacy? And that was one of the things I had to discover myself was I just went, you know, I'm just this manly man. I need to have sex two, three times a day. That's why I have to look at porn. And that's what I would tell myself. But once I stopped watching porn, once I handled the pain inside, what I found was, is that really I was looking for, like I said, love, connection, and intimacy. And really,

I was happy with having sex once, twice a week. And what was really cool, there's a study that just came out. And it showed that if you have sex with your partner, at least once a week, you can have it twice, three times, four times, five times, your happiness levels don't go up if you have it seven times a week versus once. But if you're having sex less than one time a week, your happiness levels start to go way down. And that's one of the things that people who watch a lot of porn think is I need all this sex. I need all this porn. Well, you're going to be horny once or twice, maybe three times a week, right? But if we're having it 10 times a week, that's porn. That's trying to heal a pain that's going on inside instead of rather looking for that connection

and that oneness. And now for me, I've been five years. So I'm like, horny, what is that? Oh, sorry. Okay. Now, when did you know that it was an addiction for you? Or when did you know, maybe not that it was addiction or that it was becoming harmful? That's a great question. You know, pretty much right from the start when i got handed that iphone um i started noticing it affecting my mind in a number of different ways one of them was my impulse control when i was in high school i was a really good basketball player and i would even shoot a thousand shots a day in the off season which would take about three hours to do so not

a normal thing that most kids are doing, but that takes a lot of focus, a lot of discipline. But once I started watching porn, what I started to notice, my impulse control just went down almost overnight. And I wasn't even able to make it from school back to home before watching porn. I was needing to watch it or needing, quote unquote, to watch it when I was driving home. So I'm literally swerving. I'm putting other people in danger, myself in danger. I'm like, I need it. That was one way I started noticing how it was affecting me. Another way is I developed what I called an XXX ray vision. So when you're watching porn, someone comes on the screen and you're lusting over them and you're imagining what does they, what do they look like without any clothes on? I wonder what they would

look like having sex in this position or that position. And what happens is slowly but surely that teaches your subconscious to do that in your everyday life. So you're at the grocery store, somebody walks by or you're at school or you're at church. And it's like, I definitely didn't want to imagine that person doing that thing. And that's a really bad thing. And that creates a lot of shame and it's really embarrassing. And it's really just awful for the mind. But one of the other big ones that I noticed very early on was what it started to do was cause what's called porn-induced erectile dysfunction. And so when I first started watching porn, I said, I'm a good Christian boy. I don't have sex. I said, I'm just going to watch a little porn. And then I watch a little porn. I'm like, well, it looks like they're having a lot of fun. I think I should get in on that.

So I said, I'm going to start having sex. So I start, you know, having sex with some girls, but I started noticing, like I said, porn induced erectile dysfunction. And what that means is I can only get it up when I'm watching something very specific on the screen. I can't get it up in real life. And just a funny quick story on that. One time I remember I was kind of seeing this girl. We weren't quite dating. We were like kind of on the edge there. And one night things were getting hot and heavy. And I'm like, you know, if we have sex, she's really going to want to be my girlfriend. This is going to be great. So she's going and, you know, she kind of slides in there.

She pulls it out and it is limp. It is flaccid. It is not throbbing. It felt like the millimeter Peter going on there. And I remember the next day at school, I'm like, are we still going on that date on Saturday? Like, what's the deal? And she's like, oh, no, I'm busy Friday. I'm like, I said Saturday. She's like, I mean, school, I'm like, are we still going on that date on Saturday? Like, what's the deal? And she's like, oh, no, I'm busy Friday. I'm like, I said Saturday.

She's like, I mean, Saturday, I'm busy. And I start noticing all the other kids were snickering in the class. And I'm sure they're over there like, look, it's micropenis Manny over there. You know, it's just like, that's embarrassing, right? That's a really, really tough thing. So very early on, I started to notice those things. But it wasn't until I got married that I noticed this is a serious problem that really needs to stop now so i guess do you know why porn why was porn my outlet yeah do you know like was one of the

things i was just thinking at 15 years old to go straight to porn i was just wondering yeah great question so um for myself i grew up in a christian household and sometimes you hear things like people in more conservative christian states and you know mormon states watch a lot more porn why is that well when you grow up in a household where the parents are in charge and the kids are not in charge that's not the case in every household by the way but when you grow up in one of those structures you you want power, right? We have a sinful desire to say, I want power. I want greed. I want lust.

I want everything. And so one of the things with porn is, is that you can watch it and then slide it right in your pocket and then it's done. You can have all the power you want. You can see anything that you want. And so it's very addictive to people who are in those type of situations many times. Now, as I got older, I slowly started smoking a little weed, drank a little alcohol, eating a little food.

So I had a number of problems that I was dealing with. And it really felt like whack-a-mole many times. I'd stop drinking and then my weed smoking would go up. Then I'd stop smoking and then I'd eat too much. And then I'd stop drinking and, you know, it was just one thing after another, after another. But the one thing through and through that I couldn't stop was watching porn. That was my one really, really big one. And the reason why it was the thing that really hit me when I was 15 is that's when I got handed the iPhone and I got handed the iPhone. And my dad, I remember he handed it to me. He goes,

Hey, by the way, can I trust you with this? Are you good? You know, are you good? And I'm like, oh, I'm good. You know, I'm, I'm, you know, you can go ahead and be all good. But my dad, he had no reason not to trust me. I was a good kid. I didn't get in any trouble. There was no reason not to trust me. But when you hand a child something like that, which a 15 year old would be a child technically, you know, and expect them not to look at these sites, not to go down these paths. It's just ridiculous go down these paths it's just ridiculous you know it's a super drug it's dopamine on demand it's porn in your pocket and we got to put on blockers we got to teach kids why you don't want to do this because it affects relationships it causes ed and it does a whole bunch of other bad things with society which

like i said i'm sure we'll jump into all right definitely all i know right now you're making me feel old because he's talking about at 15, he got an iPhone. And I'm like, the first phone I had was like this big. I had to pull the antenna out. So I'm like, Zach, you got an iPhone at 15? You was living it up. You might have been an iPod video just to make it, you know,

I'm 31 now, going on 32 here in a couple months. But yeah, so. That explains it. We in the 40 club i love it yeah chris actually just celebrated birthday the other day and i wasn't around happy birthday crystal i know right she's like time she was like today is the 8th and it was the second i know the date right um so yeah so when did okay so then you knew kind of it was the addiction, but what was the moment that you knew it was a problem? Well, one of the big things for myself

was when I was, when I met Becca, who I'm married to now, I knew that she was the woman that I wanted to marry. And for the first six months that we knew each other, we spent every single day with each other. We'd go to class with each other. We wanted to spend that much time with each other. And I knew she was the one I was going to marry. But I said in my head, well, you know, you said you're going to quit when you get married. And I said, I don't need this anymore because I'm going to be having sex with her. So it's all good.

I said, three months before we get married, I'm done. Then I said, two months before we get married, I'm done. One month, one week. And it's the night before a wedding. And I still remember the scene that I watched the night before our wedding. Now, when we got married, we had this beautiful wedding. But when we made it to the honeymoon suite, I had, as you probably guessed, porn-induced erectile dysfunction.

And I couldn't have sex. I couldn't even get it up on our own wedding night. And obviously, that was incredibly devastating to her. That was heartbreaking to her. And for me, I felt terrible because I knew that she wasn't the issue. I knew that this was a problem that I had. So I said, Becca, I'm sorry. It's not you.

It's me. It's because I'm addicted to porn. But in that moment, I didn't say I wanted to quit. I just said I was sorry. Now, for the first three years of our marriage, we really just slid this thing under the rug. She wanted to pretend it didn't exist. She wanted me just to handle it on my own. And for me, I said, I can still do this as long as I can have sex once a week or once every other week and just keep up for appearances. But things really came to a head

when early on during COVID. I remember there was a night I had a couple of weed gummies. I had a couple of bottles of wine and I'm thinking about what am I going to go jerk off to? And Mecca in so many words says, do you want to go have sex? And I'm going, she wants to have sex. Now I can't go jerk off. And that's how screwed up my mind was. That's how far gone I was. I got an attitude about it. I have. I mean, I was angry, paranoid, you know, depressed, all of the above. And eventually I say, okay, that's fine. We go to the bedroom. I'm having an ED, try to get things going, have an ED, have an ED. And eventually I just say, you know what, Beckett, you're the problem. You're the issue. It's not me. It's you. And she's crying. I storm out of the room. And I remember just going to our living room, 25 feet from here, and just putting my hands on my head and just praying to God and just said, God, I need help.

And in that moment, the Lord put on my heart, he said, go to Becca and ask for that help. And when I heard that, that was the absolute last thing in the world that I truly wanted to do. But I knew that's what I needed to do if I was going to overcome this thing. So I got up, I went in there and I just said, Becca, I'm sorry. I have a problem. I can't beat this thing on my own. I love you more than this issue, but I need your help. Will you be there to support me and be by my side? And to my surprise, she said, okay. And Becca and I, early on during that period, we had a lot of questions. Like for her, it was, how do I support a husband who's addicted to porn? And she would read things

like, it's good that he watches porn or he should watch it together. Or if he's watching porn, that means he's cheating on you. So you should just get your affairs in order right now because he's going to leave you. And on my end, I'm going, how do I beat this? Is it willpower? Am I just supposed to pray 25 times a day? I mean, what should and shouldn't I share with her? What am I supposed to do? But one of the things that we found out very early on was that addiction dies in the light. Just by bringing it into the light, it started to lose its power over me. And the other thing that we found is that your spouse can be your ultimate accountability partner because there's no one that cares more about you, that's more invested in your life, that wants to help you through this more than that spouse. And so that's what we found out during the early periods of this time.

Sorry, that was a long answer to the quick question. I apologize. No, no. I was just thinking that you're lucky she didn't chop your ass in your throat. I am very lucky. And I took that opportunity and I ran with it. Yeah, because I'm like'm like Becca I would have been like okay hold on one minute let me chop you in the throat first yeah I'm gonna go ahead and help

you so uh shout out to Becca for not doing that but if you do do it in in your lifetime remember you got in your pocket I'm gonna edit that part out go ahead Crystal sorry no I was just listening oh I'm going to edit that part out. Go ahead, Crystal. Sorry. No, I was just listening. Oh, sorry. I think I said something. I have to give her permission to talk because she would just like forget that she's there. Well, no questions are off limits.

And so feel free to fire away. Whatever you got. Yeah. I was just I'm still stunned that she didn't chop you in your throat. Only because you made her feel bad about herself. whatever you got. Yeah. I was just, I'm still stunned that she didn't chop you in your throat. Only because you made her feel bad about herself. That's the, that's the reason I'm talking about not the, not the coming in help or the problem.

I think it's pretty dope. And, and I, and I guess, you know, it's a testament to both of you guys and a lot about love. So it was like, it's,

it's pretty dope. I don't have a spouse and I'm good not having one, but that love is still dope. Right. You know, I know that was one of the things for her that she really stood on. And she just went, it says for better or for worse in those marriage vows. And she goes, this is the worst. This is not the worst.

This is the worst. And she goes, I'm supposed to be there for him. If he wants to work through this, then I'm going to be there and to help him through this. And I guess kind of to maybe finish that story, just because we're right on the precipice of it. In the next season of our lives, we were working at a family business and my dad, out of nowhere, he just passes away. And I got a little picture of him up here. I can't really see it. But anyway, so that's neither here nor there. You can edit that out. But he passes away. I take over the CEO role of that company. And I just felt the Lord put on my heart saying, walk away and follow me. And I was like, well, what do you want me to do, God? Like,

you know, why don't you tell me and I'll let you know if that's a good idea, you know, and I'll figure out God's plan. But the Lord didn't do that. He just said, walk away and follow me. And eventually that calling on our hearts just was so strong that we just said, okay, we're going to do it. So we walked away. And about two weeks after that, the Lord put on our hearts, we were out at a dinner date just down the street. And almost at the same time, we look at each other and we just go, I know what God wants us to do.

And we both say, God wants us to help married couples overcome porn addictions as a team. And it was like, we almost said it like right at the same time. And it was like, this is crazy. And this is wild. But it was also an incredibly scary moment for me because I'm like, I'm not a team. And it was like, we almost said it like right at the same time. And it was like, this is crazy. And this is wild. But it was also an incredibly scary moment for me. Cause I'm like, I'm not a doctor. I'm not a psychologist. What, how am I supposed to help anybody with this? I'm still kind of struggling with it. Like I've gotten a lot better, but I mean, I'm like an animal in a cage. If I didn't have these porn blockers, I feel like I'd be looking at it. But a few days after that, I was working out in our gym. And I remember it felt like a lightning bolt hit me from the sky.

And I fell to my knee and I just felt the Lord say, raise up an army to fight this evil power. And when I felt that, I just went, you know what? If the Lord is leading us, all we have to do is follow. And we just have to go where he leads us. And so we said, okay. So we started to read everything on addiction, everything on porn addiction, sexual addiction. And what we found was that why someone goes to porn is it's a pain reliever, a pain for something that's gone on inside, whether that's really big trauma, maybe their parents got divorced, they were neglected, they were abused, whatever that

thing might have been big or small, they've been carrying this thing and they've been trying to self-medicate it for a really long time. And now it's formed into a habit and they've become addicted. And when I thought... And it doesn't necessarily have to be sex-related, right? That's a great question. It does not need to be sex-related. It could be anything. And I've worked with so many people now and they tell me their stories.

And it's like, sometimes it absolutely is the worst of the worst sexual things that you could imagine. And then other times it's like the most random thing that you can imagine. Someone made fun of me on my third grade baseball team, and I never felt like I was good enough. And I'm like, how does those relate? Well, it's because self-esteem, self-worth, self-confidence, self-love has been hurt. And they're trying to get that love from somewhere else. So for myself, one of the big things for me was when I was in first grade, I was bullied. I was held back. I was put on all types of medication. I had short-term memory, dyslexia. And the doctors said to my parents, you know, they said the official diagnosis for this kid is he's what we call an idiot.

And that's a joke, but they, you know, I'm like, damn, I'm an idiot too. I need to be slow-mo on my face. But what happened was from a very early age, I never felt like I was like everyone else. I always felt like I need some pills to be normal. And so when I became very successful as an adult, I always felt like I was an imposter. I didn't deserve it. And so what I tried to do is push down those feelings with weed and alcohol and food and porn, of course.

And once I took the time to heal that pain that was inside, I was able to have freedom from this. And I don't mean like I want to watch it and she's out of town this weekend. So I'm going to watch it once freedom from this. And what's crazy is I learned to love myself again. I love connection. Intimacy is off the charts. Now we have three kids. So there's the proof in the pudding right there. And the other proof is back to back to back. And, and, you know, what's crazy too, is, you know, I lost 40 pounds in this process. I got some before and after photo on our website. But the whole idea was I was no longer stress eating. And once I handled that pain, all of that went away. And so that's essentially how I was able to overcome it and why it was a huge problem for me. Right. And that's what I was thinking. I was like, wow, you know,

we're sitting here and we're talking about porn addiction, but really it's to any addiction. Everything you described is like any addiction, really. One of the crazy stats, Dr. Patrick Karn says in the book, Out of the Shadows, he works with sex addicts. 83% of sex addicts have multiple addictions. So, hey, I struggle with weed and I struggle with alcohol. Well, I struggle with alcohol and porn. Well, I struggle with it. And so one of the big things that when we work with people, we always say, hey, if you overcome porn, but then you're smoking 10 blunts a day, that's not freedom, right? You just traded one addiction for the other, right? So we need to find out what's the pain that's going on inside how do we handle that and how do we create an environment for freedom so

this is no longer something that you're trying to go back to again and again and again right for me it's for roll-ups and i'll be trying to i'm gonna tell you man you i'll be trying to lead them for roll-ups the other day i thought it thought it was over, right? I got a bag, a box, and one of them was hard. And I was like, ooh, this shit is stale. So I thought it was done. I threw the whole box away. I was mad. I went to the grocery store yesterday.

What's the first thing I go buy? These motherfucking food roll-ups. They got a hold on me. They are my demon, okay? They are my demon. Sorry are my demon sorry i know has nothing to do with nothing but it does for me you're saying porn addiction and i'm here and get rid of them damn food roll-ups okay they're compensating for something in your life well that's one of the things you know we always go over is you know no matter what's going on right

whether it's fruit roll-ups or it's porn or it's alcohol or it's weed or it's whatever, you know, we have this acronym that we use called HALT the BS. So are you hungry? Are you angry? Are you lonely? Are you tired? Are you bored? Are you stressed? And so when you have that huge hankering for those fruit roll-ups next time, go, I'm going to HALT the BS. Am I actually hungry? No, I just ate. Am I angry? Am I lonely? Am I tired? Am I bored? Am I stressed? What's really going on? And when we can identify that and then we can start working through that, that's when all of a sudden the fruit roll-up craving just goes away. Because I can speak to that.

I had a craving so bad for Rocky Road ice cream the other day. It was like, I got to have it. And I just went, I'm not hungry. And I went over to Becca and I just said, I don't even know what's going on. Can you just talk to me for a second? She goes, what's going on? You hungry, angry, lonely, tired, bored, stressed? And I'm like, I might be stressed.

I don't know. And she's like, well, what's going on? We start talking about it. And long story short, I'm chasing five rabbits and I can't catch any. And she's like, do this, do this, do this. And you're going to be fine. And all of a sudden, magically, it's not magic, right? The stress has gone away.

I no longer had that same craving for that ice cream that I had before. So try that next time. See how it works and reach out to me personally. I'll run you through it. Are you hungry, angry, lonely, tired, bored, stressed? And we can talk through that one. Look, don't invite me now because I'm going to come. I tell people. Just had to give you a fair warning. I will come. Look, I'm healing, right? So anything that's going to help me heal is incredible. I have a lot of trauma and a lot of past stuff. And then you add cancer on top of it and all this other stuff. Look, I'm willing to try anything.

They be like, what they say, stand on my pinky and put my pool in my mouth, you know? And I'm going to try it. and i'm gonna try and i another topic has nothing to do anything though but um i'm currently like in the middle of like a a faith struggle you know it's like oh what i believe in i grew up catholic and um everything that i learned in church was negative um and then i was punished a lot in church i remember asking a question um in in uh like a sunday school I had to be a little kid, ask the question. I thought it was a good question. Of course, I asked it and got kicked out of Sunday school. So it was kind of like a lot of negative things.

And then just my life. And so I'm in my faith struggle. But one thing I always said is you always talk about like, you know, hearing God or you felt it and those kind of things. And it's like, am I missing those? Because I feel like I need those moments in order to know like God is real and that he's there. It's just pretty cool to see your faith. When you said it, it was like a glow with you. And it was like, okay, I want to glow. Well, that's an interesting question. And when you draw near to the Lord, the Lord will draw near to you. And as I mentioned, the Lord said, raise up an army to fight the seafoal power.

And I remember the first person who got signed up for a course, his name was David. And David, he was struggling with porn from since the time he was 11. He was now 22. He's about to get married at his worst six to 10 times a day. He's doing this. And so think about that for a second. And I'm like, David, you got to do the course. Come on, man. This is simple. We made a course for you and

your wife to go through a fiance, just get the course. And at the time we were charging a couple thousand for the course, I think. And he's like, I couldn't do this. You know, even if I tried, you could look at my bank account. And I just felt the Lord just say, tell him to do whatever he can. And I said, David, I don't want your money. I want you to overcome tell him to do whatever he can. And I said, David, I don't want your money. I want you to overcome this. Just do whatever you can. And he says, I got 40 bucks. And I said, David, then you got the course. And David became the very first person to get our course and to get our training. And what was wild about it was I asked him, I said, David, tell me something about yourself. You know, what's your story? And he's like, well, you know,

I'm in the army national reserve and I'm actually in the army barracks right now. And I go, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause. The Lord told me to raise up an army. The first guy who gets signed up name is David, God's mighty warrior. You're in the army and you're in the army barracks. Like if that isn't a God moment, then I don't know what is, but what was amazing about it is David went through the course. He found freedom from porn. He's now married. They're expecting their first child. He's in the best shape of his life. He's got a better job and his whole life has been transformed. And when we saw how his life was transformed, we just said, you know, we can't wait till someone pays us a bunch of money and then we're going to give them the medicine. And then we're going to, once you give me that, then I'll help

you. No, no, no. We said, we need to make sure we help as many people as possible. And let's let the Lord take care of the finances. And so we did that. We made our course extremely affordable. We became a nonprofit. And if anybody struggles, like truly, I can't afford your course, reach out to us. We'll work something out. Like I don't ever want finances to stop someone from taking action. But when we had that experience in our first year, we were hoping to help 10 or 20 people. We were able to help close to 500 people get the course in over 25 different countries. And it was just absolutely incredible. And I say all that to say that when you draw near to the Lord, he will draw near to you. And one of the things I always ask the Lord for is just, Hey God, I don't need all the money. I don't need fame. I don't need

that, but just continue to show yourself in my life and continue to open my eyes to your goodness. And let me just see you working. That's all I asked for. And so whether it's the smallest thing or the biggest thing, the Lord will show himself. And so just take it one step at a time is all I would say. And first off, let me be the first to say, I'm sorry that those people in the church hurt you. Right. And that's a terrible thing. And I'd love to dive into that story a whole lot deeper and, you know, we could, we can do whatever we want there. But, you know, one of the big things is the devil, what he would want is, you know, you were hurt by the church and he says, yeah, so draw further away, get away from these guys. You know, don't, don't be close to that.

It's like the people hurt you. Jesus did not hurt you. right? The Lord loves you. And we are all sinful people who make mistakes. Guilty, right? That's why I need a savior because I am not worthy of heaven. And we need someone to die on a cross to take our sins. And so that way we can go to heaven. And so what I would say to anybody listening is, first off, we have a program. It is not you have to pray 25 times a day and be a Christian to do our course. That's not what this is.

It's for anybody looking for healing. But if you have any questions about that, I am here for you and be happy to talk to you about that. No pressure at all. But I just want to make sure I put that out there and go from there. So thank you for just sharing that with me. I mean, that means a lot. And I'd love to talk to you about that more. Oh, definitely. And yeah. And then once again, that was about me too, right? We're not telling nobody to do nothing. I was being selfish once

again, that I learned yesterday that I'm selfish. So now do you think that sex addiction and porn addiction can be hand in hand? It's a great question. One of the big things that we see is oftentimes people who are addicted to porn have no interest in even having sex. And so there was this poll that was done in Japan, and it was for men 16 to 19. This was done in 2010. 36% of men are not interested in having sex. And two years prior to that, in 2008, it was 17.5% of men are not interested in having sex. And two years prior to that, in 2008, it was 17.5% of men who weren't interested in sex. So it almost had doubled in that time. And what's happening is the more and more people are watching porn, the less interested they're becoming in having sex in the real world. And you look at it, in the 1950s, we had a birth rate of

each woman was having three babies on average. And now that birth rate's gone down to 1.6 in the US. And there was another crazy stat, just to pile them on top of each other. In 2008, compared to 2018, I believe it was, sexlessness. So a person who has no sex in a given year, 18 to 30 has tripled in that time. And why is that the case? Well, you can pay for have your girlfriend, OnlyFans, five bucks and you got a girlfriend. That's a lot cheaper than doing it the old fashioned way where you got to, you know, wine dine and, you know, do whatever you're going to do after that. And people are watching porn

and people have their weed delivered and their alcohol delivered and they got your fan duels and you got all these things right at your fingertips, just waiting to take your money and your time and your effort and your energy and your everything. And so one of the things that we do see as well, though, is that sometimes people are addicted to sex and porn at the same time, there's a correlation there. But sometimes it's completely different. And sometimes sex addicts don't even watch porn. Sometimes porn addicts are not having sex as we talked about. So that is a very interesting thing that comes up often. It's not always correlated, but sometimes it is. So what's wrong with you when you ain't having sex and you ain't watching porn? That person needs to be studied. We'll figure that out. I'm that person I guess I need to study but I was just

I was funny I was thinking about you and I'm like Dak I don't want to do none of those things just because the world is crazy and I don't got time to deal with

oh all these emotions out there and then another thing also I just don't want to have kids but part of that is just because I don't want to bring kids into this world right so yeah

I am a unique case God if he's up there he broke that mold when he made me. It was like, OK, we're going to do one of him for real. Yeah, that was I mean, I'll tell you what, before I had kids, that was one of my biggest fears. I'm just like, I can't do it. I was just like, I cannot bring them into this world. It's the craziest thing. It was like early covid. Right. And my dad, he gave me just this piece of advice. He's like, you know, the bad guys, they're going to have kids, right? They're going to populate the earth. It's like, you need to make some good kids. You need to raise them in the way of the

Lord and put them out there so they can make the world a better place. And then let the Lord take it from there. And I took that advice. I took it really well, I guess, three kids in three years. But you know, that's one of the things that's helped me over this time is I just go, there's a bigger purpose than me just being here right now. I had everything the world could tell you would make you happy. I was a millionaire by the time I was 27, 28. I don't even remember when I became a millionaire because I didn't even care. It was just flowing in. Did a TED Talk, had all the weed, alcohol, porn I could have asked for. But I was broken. I was depressed.

And I knew that this wasn't the life I was supposed to live. And so when I got handed, like I mentioned, that CEO role, I just said, you know, God, is this what you have planned for me? And that's why he was telling me, walk away and follow me. And when I did that, and I finally realized, oh, this is the purpose that the Lord has for me to help people overcome this. I was hoping the Lord was going to say, you're going to be the best insurance salesman or the best real estate, something or rather like some, some really cool, sexy job. But he said, no, you're going to be the person who helps people overcome porn. And what's been beautiful

about it is, you know, the money we make now compared to then, I mean, we're a nonprofit, more like no profit, you know, very little profit, put it that way. But we get to help so many people in so many different countries all around the world. And if it could save one marriage, if it could prevent one rape or one suicide, then it's all been worth it. And the amount of people we've reached out to who've come back to us and said, you know, thank you for saving our marriage or someone who's, Hey, I'm having scary thoughts. I'll let your imagination run wild. And I'm not going to do those things anymore. Or the child who reaches out to us and says, I was going to end my life.

But because I saw one of your videos, I'm not going to do it. You know, that is so much better. Because my way of having fun and joy and happiness in this world leads to death, right? It's me in Amsterdam with two blunts in my system and five beers and porn for three hours. But the way of the Lord leads to life. And that's been one of the biggest realizations for me. And so having these children, yeah, it's been tough. I don't know how I got all the way over here on this topic, but having the children, it has been tough and there are challenges, but I just go, man, you know, I never could have imagined my life would be this good, even though it's the

exact opposite of what the world would tell me would make me happy. So Mike, I'm not saying go out there and just go have 34 kids or anything like that, you know, be, you know, use caution, but, um, they, they are great. So if it ever comes on, if ever changed, it's not wrong with that. Cause I do have a friend that got 34 kids, but, but no, no, really. I mean, I, I, I thought about it a lot and I always, and I have, and I'm like, eh, I'm good. I'm good. There's just, it's some things that I've been through and, uh, some things I just still haven't got over. I always tell people, you know, when it comes to trauma, uh, you can survive, but you can endure. And there's a difference between the two, you know, I got really great at enduring, but, um it just those are reasons why I'm like, I just can't.

I'm going to end up in a prison. No, we just can't. So allow my life to be good. Well, right. You know, I'm a set up. Well, I would say, you know, with this show, it is amazing what you guys do. Just sharing all these different topics, sharing topics sometimes that people don't want to talk about, really diving into things. And that helps so many people. And so I would just say, if the Lord puts on your heart, go have 10 kids, you know, go do that. Right. If the Lord says, keep doing this, keep doing this. But, you know, we all play a part in his plan.

We don't know exactly what it is, but as long as we love the Lord with all of our heart, mind and soul, love our neighbors, thyself, draw near to him, he's going to make that plan clear. And I would just say, keep helping people how the Lord has made you to help people. And I think you're doing that right now. And so I, like I said, I appreciate you just letting us be here because even us being here, this is going to help people save their marriage. It's going to prevent a you know what? And it could save a life.

And so I just want to say again, thank you so much for just having us. No problem. Yeah. And it's a pleasure. Definitely. And going, I guess, from that topic, like when would a person because not everybody who has a porn addiction has the erectile dysfunction part of it, right? So like when, when do you know that you need help? When should a person or start to consider like, maybe I have a problem with this. Yep. You know, one of the big things I'd say, first off, if you're 40 minutes into this podcast and you're still listening intently, there's your sign right there. You know, you need to go ahead to teamvulnerable.com. You know, that's one part of it. But one of the things that we teach is I don't care if you call yourself an addict, compulsive. If it's a problem, it's a problem. And whether it's ED or whether it's drawing you further away from your spouse or whether you're

not having that natural energy to go talk to that person that you want to talk to and build those relationships, it's affecting you in ways that you don't even quite fully understand until you completely stop. And so one of the big things I would ask is, how much is porn costing you? Because there's a crazy stat, 10% of people who watch porn consider themselves to be a porn addict, and that's 10 to 12 hours a week. And so we've done a little math equation, and it's like 10 hours a week, week times four week times 10, $15 or whatever. And it's something like over the course of 10 years, it's like 50 or 60 grand. But then it's like, okay, what if you're living in San Francisco and the minimum wage, $40, that's a joke. But you know, the whole idea is like, well, now it's 150,000. And then it's like, what if you're making

hundreds of hundreds of dollars an hour? It's like, well, you're literally leaving millions on the table right there. But like we said, whether it's relationships, whether it's how you're viewing people, it's affecting your mind in so many different ways that you don't even fully understand until you quit. And that's when you go, oh, my goodness, we get the spouse or we get married, you know, when you're 17 or 15, it just happened, which is said to be 40 minutes into this episode and you're having these feelings, but you don't have a spouse to go to. But, you know, it was like, I can't talk to my parents. I can't talk to my friends. Is there a recommendation on where those people can go? That's an excellent question. One of the biggest things that porn does is it tells you that no one would love you. No one would care about you. There is no one around you. And it just isolates you. And it just puts you in this place where it's just like, oh, there's no way out. I don't want to be doing this, but there's no hope. And it's just not true. It is not true. It is not true. If you speak out for help and you have that vulnerability, vulnerability will come out on the other side. And one of the ways I shared obviously with Becca, but when I told people I was going to become the porn addiction guy and

help people overcome this, I thought people were going to like throw me to the side of the road and be like, Oh my God, that's not what happened. People would go, Oh, you're a digital. Here's my problem. I've actually spent so much money on only fans. I couldn't buy a house. And you know what? I almost lost my marriage because of this. And I almost, and I've been doing this and I've, and it's just like, so when you have that vulnerability and you share in the right way, other people will come to your aid. And even if they don't reach out to me, I'll be there for you, right? The Lord is there for you. And there are people that are out there and that's why we call it team vulnerable. You need a team around you because if you could have beat this on your own, you would have beat it by yourself

a long time ago. The only thing you can beat on your own, you would have beat it by yourself a long time ago. The only thing you can beat on your own right now is your meat. So you need to have a team around you. All right. That's really, really important. And so one of the big things that I share with people is when you're overcoming porn and why you need a teammate is you need to talk about things. Am I hungry, angry, lonely, tired, bored, stressed? It's not, hey, I want to go look up XYZ website and I really have a fetish for this thing.

That doesn't matter. What matters is what's going on ultimately inside. Porn is a secondary problem to the pain that's going on inside. So when we teach people how to communicate with each other, they realize, oh, I don't really need to go talk to them about porn as much as I need to talk to them about what's going on inside. Now, one of the things that we do as well, we recommend an app called Covenant Eyes on our devices. And Covenant Eyes, what it does is it watches your devices. It's watching my device right now. And let's say

some image popped up on my screen. Well, the report gets sent to Becca at the end of the month or at the end of the week or whenever she gets that report. And it says, hey, something bad popped across the screen. And I'll show her a blurred out image. She was on this website at this time. And so for me, what that does is I go, before I have that thought, hey, I want to look this up. I go, I don't want Becca to see that. And so instead of looking it up, I go talk to Becca.

And I say, Becca, I don't know what's going on. She says, you hungry, angry, lonely, tired, bored, stressed. Are we still dealing with that pain and trauma from inside? What's going on right now in this moment? And when we start talking that through, what starts to happen is our self-esteem and confidence goes up as we start handling our problems. As we handle our problems, we have less problems. And so we're stressed out less and less and less.

And also our brain starts to rewire and the subconscious mind stops sending signals that we need to go to porn. It says, okay, well, maybe we can go to porn or maybe we can handle the problem. And so one of the last things I would say with that, when people think about tackling this issue, it's so daunting to them. I have to stop watching porn forever. I can never do that. All I ask is take one step in the right direction today. So when I had that moment with Becca and I said, I need help, that's a step. I didn't overcome porn that night or that moment or that week or that month, but I said, I need help. Then we put on blockers. Then we started talking more. Then we started

researching more. And then day by day by day, we just took one step in the right direction till all of a sudden I looked at Becca one day and I said, I cannot believe how easy it is to not look at porn. Like I was like, I can't believe I waited 15 years to overcome this thing when I could overcame it very, very quickly. And so for me, that was around the three, four month mark where I just said, I can't believe how easy this is around 30, 40 days. My mind felt so clear. Obviously everyone will be different, but if you're willing to do the work, it will work. This ain't rocket science, what we're teaching here. I don't have a PhD from Harvard or something. It's not rocket science. You just got to take one step in the right direction each day and have that strength and

vulnerability one step along the way each step. Okay. So now I'm going to flip the question, right? And you are a person like me. And now Crystal comes up and tells me, hey, Micah, I got a porn addiction. I'm really not going to take it seriously because there is no such thing as a porn addiction. And I'm just one of those people that so I'm in my loving phase of healing, which means I love everybody

for who they are, what they are, what they do right now at this time. So nothing that you do is bad to me because you want to do it. You know what I'm saying? But if Crystal came to me and then once again had a porn addiction, it's just funny to say Crystal has a porn addiction. It's going to put that out there so that when people snip it, you know, how they do out there is going to be like, damn, you heard Michael was saying Crystal had a porn addiction. Flip it. But OK, no, seriously.

So she comes to me and she's like, you know as a friend you know she my best friend hey so you know i got this issue you know i can't i can't have sex with my husband i have this porn addiction i'm gonna look at her like bitch please um i'm gonna make some joke about it i'm not gonna take it serious and i'm telling you this is exactly how it would go i will make i will make crystal feel awkward now so she's gonna now laugh about it. I'm not going to take it serious. And I'm telling you, this is exactly how it will go. I will make, I will make Crystal feel awkward now. So she's going to now laugh about it and brush it off. But I kind of messed up her healing. So what do you say to a person like me and that position, you know, to consider like, Hey, we're watching this podcast, they're in it and, you know, they don't necessarily have an addiction themselves. I don't watch porn at all. But once again, you know, to me, it's like teach his own. But, you know, it's, you know, so. What would you say? Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I'll keep going with the crystal example just so we make her feel like an operator. So a couple of things with that. First off, before I even answer that question directly in 2009 or 2018, 29% of Pornhub users were women, which was a 3% increase from the previous year. So this isn't just a man's issue. So Crystal, if you are struggling, you reach out to me after the show, we'll talk, but we're going to assume you're just this hypothetical situation. Uh, right. So, so what I would do in that instance, when I, when someone gets started with our program, they reach out to me directly. We talk and usually that's the first step, but they haven't had a conversation with their teammate, which we go over how to have the conversation, how to pick them the right way. I'll start walking them through what are the steps? What does that look

like? The very first step would just be writing down on a literal piece of paper who are three to five people that you could reach out to because they might reach out to you. And Mikey, you just say, I'm not the right person for this. Now, that doesn't mean that Crystal can't go to you and talk to you about, hey, I'm just having a day because you would be, oh, let's talk. I'm here for you. You know, what's going on? And you'd be able to talk to her through that. And so you can still be part of that team, but you might not be that direct teammate that she's reaching out specifically for this.

So I would say, who's a person that you know, that you trust, who you would not want to see that covenant eyes report when it comes to them at the end of the month, who gives you a little scare, right? Not shame, but a little scared, right? Who is that person for you? And I just want them to write that on a piece of paper. And then we'll talk through how to talk to that person because that happens. Sometimes it's not the right person, you know, and you got to find that right person for you. And I wasn't necessarily saying that I wasn't the right person. I guess what I was saying was that being the right person, because I do feel like she don't want me to see that app because I'm going to burn. I'm going to beat that dead horse. You hear me? She made mistakes years

ago. I'm still going to bring that shit up. Like, girl, you did this. Okay. I am a good accountability partner. Right. And she is the same for me. That's probably. But, you know, I guess I wouldn't take it serious if she said she had a porn addiction. And guess i was asking what would what would you know what would you say to someone like me to be like hey you know like just because you don't take it serious doesn't mean it's not serious right you know this is kind of what you need to do as a support system because i would definitely want to be there for crystal once again this is my first time having a conversation about a porn addiction it's just something i don't think about but i just know if crystal admitted to it that she had one at first i wouldn't take it serious so it's like you know how how what should

i do to get out that mind frame in that moment because i do want to be there for my right what we do with our course is it's designed for that teammate and the person struggling to go through together. So the reason for that is we're teaching the person who's struggling how to overcome this addiction. And we're teaching that supporting teammate how to support them and why this is an issue and how they can help and not help, right? What's what they should and shouldn't do, right? Shame is not good. Shame is I'm a bad person and I do bad things. Guilt is, hey, I'm a good person who did a bad thing and I need to learn from this and don't do that again, right? Guilt can be good.

It's a warning sign for us. Hey, I shouldn't be doing this thing, right? And so we educate both parties on how to go through this process together. So we have a course for married couples and people who are in serious relationships. We have one for people who are single and we have one even for kids and for parents or their guardian or, you know, a trusted adult for them to be going through this with because the amount of kids who have reached out to us who said this is an issue is just staggering. You know, one in 10 porn users is 10 or younger. The average age that a kid sees porn is eight years old.

And when we're talking about porn, right, we're talking about, you know, obviously things like Playboy and things like that. But what are we really talking about? Eighty-eight percent of porn scenes contain physical aggression. Forty-nine percent contain verbal aggression. Now, when I first heard that, violent aggression, physical aggression, I read that and I went, what does that mean? I don't even know what that means because I had seen so much porn where that was just accepted, right? 96% of physical aggression that's shown towards women in porn scenes is displayed with happiness

that that's being displayed towards them. And adolescents, teens who watch intentionally violent porn are six times more likely to report sexually aggressive behaviors than those who have not. So that's children, right? But what are we but grown up children, right? We're just a little bit older, I would say, you know, we're still young at heart. And so these I'm still, I'm still a child. But what happens when people start watching porn, right? And they say lust is good. And I just want more lust will never stop asking for more. You can never quench that thirst. And so what starts off as a picture, you say, well, I get bored of that. I need a couple pictures. Well, I need a video. I need turned on. And then I see something really scary, a woman getting beaten up, a 19-some, you name it. They go, oh.

And all of a sudden, these neurons that are firing together are now wiring together. So now they see a woman getting hit. And they go, I don't know why, but I have a boner. And they're like, this is really weird. But here's the craziest thing, just to get half serious for a moment, is that the most popular of all sexual searches online by wide margin is youth. And if you think about that, why does that happen? Well, it might start off, you're watching a 25-year-old, then it's a 25-year-old in pigtails, then it's an 18-year-old, then it might be an 18-year-old or 17-year-old, then it's 16, 15, 14. All of a sudden, you got a ticket to Thailand in your hand, and you're on your way to have

relations with someone in another country. And so when I talk to people who say, Manny, it's okay. I just watched legal teen porn. There's nothing wrong with that. I go, you watch an 18-year-old have sex. You love it. You get off to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No problem. It's one day earlier. She's 17 and 364 days years old. Are you throwing up if you saw that scene? And you're getting off if you saw it one day earlier. She's 17 and 364 days years old. Are you throwing up if you saw that scene and you're getting off if you saw it one day later? And all of a sudden you start seeing the wheels spinning and they're going, oh, this isn't good. And one of the things I do in addition is I usually show a picture of a female and I just go, how old is this female? And some people go 35, some people go 15, 18, 25. And I go, you know what the answer

is? I don't know what the answer is. I don't, I don't even know what this person's age is. And that's the point is when we're watching, we're not checking for birth certificates before we watch these scenes. So someone could have been trafficked. They could have been porn was made of them while they were being trafficked. They're in the scene. I mean, it is a terrible, terrible thing that starts to happen, but let me give you the good news on top of all this so I don't leave us on a downer. In the 1980s, after the health threats of smoking became widely publicized, about half of people who had ever smoked addictively quit. And most remarkable of all, more than 90% of those 50% did that without any kind of treatment. And so just by speaking up,

we can make a huge difference, save lives, prevent rapes, and save marriages as we go through this process. And so I didn't mean to get really dark there for a second, but hopefully I can spin it right there at the end. But it is an issue that so many people look at and they go, well, on the surface, it's not that bad. Yeah, but as we slowly start working our way down, it starts getting very bad. And when children have these things in their phones or hands in their phones, in their hands, my apologies, you know, and we expect them just to have self self-control and self-restraint, it's just not a good combo. So that's why we're speaking up and we're just saying, you know what, if we can save one marriage, prevent one bad thing from happening or save one life,

then it all been worth it. Definitely. Definitely. Now, any advice for parents who find the first time or the first time they find this, because, you know, they, now parents connect to all their kids' devices, but now they see this, you know, this porn and their first reaction is to get angry and attack, you know, what is your recommendation for that? Yeah. You know, one of the biggest things is that child one day is going to be an adult and they're going to have a choice if they can watch porn or not. So you're not always just going to be able to take it away. And I took it away. Well, that handles the problem for that moment. Right. But they could go get another iPhone later today or see it on someone else's

phone. There are ways to always find it. So what we need to first do is educate on why this isn't a good thing. You know, we're seeing sexlessness at an all time high, ED rates, marriage is falling apart because of this, the child sex trafficking industry is fueled by this. So when we learn that, then we go, wait a minute, maybe I don't want to be watching this. And when we put on porn blockers, right, Covenant Eyes is the one I always recommend because it's great. What that does is it helps with the constant influx of porn. And it's just ridiculous to expect a child not to want to look up these things. It's like if you put a bunch of cocaine in the room, like don't try that. Don't try that or the weed over there or don't try any of the alcohol.

We're going to leave. And so don't try any of that. That would be ridiculous if we did something like that. But we do that all day long with our phones. So one of the big things like you talked about, hate and shame are not the answers because of hate and shame are the answers. So many people would have already quit and had freedom from this already. What we need to understand is love, understanding and grace and accountability are the true ways that we're going to overcome this thing. So it's not their fault that they've fallen down this path, but now we know the truth and now it's time to stand up and start walking in the right direction. And that's one of the big things we say is just focus on progress. Just focus on conversations because when the conversation stopped and this problem goes back into the dark, that's where addiction grows is in the darkness.

It cannot survive in the light. So just having a conversation of how are you feeling? How are you doing? What's going on? That's what we need to focus on. Definitely. We always have a saying here. Like, if you're questioning what you're doing is wrong, it might be time to talk to somebody. You know, you got to ask your question, is this wrong? You know, it's like, let's get it together. And Crystal, girl, if you ever have a porn addiction, you can come to me.

I promise. Okay. I'm going to be there for you. I'm actually going to just say, I'm saying we don't go to Emmanuel together, but you could come to me. Okay. I would joke about it, but it's very cool that you came on and taught me something today. Like I said, I would never in addictions.

It's like you heard it in passing, you know, but it's just like JLo booty. You know, it don't, it don't ring. You know, I remember it no more you know i think a lot of people find it as a joke if you're sitting there and you're talking about it like if me and micah were talking about it they would find it as you're joking around so everybody thinks it's just like natural to watch porn have a whole lot of sex right it's funny i actually saw one too i was witnessing a girl teacher she was teaching um teenage boys between the age of like 16 and 19 um or i guess i wouldn't call them boys right teenagers i guess right um but she was teaching them basically about sex and it was one of the first things she says, she was like,

she was talking about pleasure and she was talking about pleasuring a woman. And she says that sex should not hurt for the woman. You know, it was like one of her big things. And she was like, like that stuff you see in porn, like she getting paid for that. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, so that shit ain't supposed to hurt. Like, you know, like I, it's not what I want. And, and, you know, it's not these things. And like, I never thought ain't supposed to hurt. Like, you know, like, it's not what I want. And, you know, it's not these things. And, like, I never thought about it that way before.

Not that I just be out here or have reckless sex either. But it's just like, you know, you think about people saying that stuff all the time or, you know, like, I'm going to go home and I'm going to thrash it. And it's like, oh, that's not cute. Can we not do that? No thrashing, please. You know, not to be TMI or anything like that, but once I stopped watching porn and once I had healing from this, our whole routine, if you will, in the bedroom completely changed. And it became about love, connection, and intimacy. And I always thought when we first got married, you know, sex is going to be okay. It's going to be kind of a chore.

It's just something we have to do or I guess we get to do. And now sex is so beautiful so amazing so incredible and it's something that we so passionately enjoy and we love and it's been absolutely incredible because it's about love connection and intimacy now not about an animalistic desire and one of the things crystal as you're mentioning you know the joking the laughing it's like, it's because it's an awkward topic. And nobody wants to talk about it because people have this built in shame around it when we don't need to, right? When we start talking about when we have vulnerability, other people open up to us, and they want to share that as well. But one of the other things, speaking it out loud, I'm so sorry, the thought just left my mind, but I'm sure it'll come back here in a second. That happens to me. You ain't good company. And it's kind of funny. I was thinking about your acronym. I have kind of the same one, too. I was like, hey, do I want to be heard or want to be hugged or do I want to be helped?

So it was kind of cool when I heard yours, I was like, that's dope. Oh, I just remembered. So first off, that's a great acronym. I'm going to write that one down. But one of the big things, you know, people laugh about it and you know, the hate we get all the time, you know, it's, it's just one of those things. And I'm okay with that because I know the Lord is with us and Lord is guiding us. And it's like, I'm not here to make friends with everyone. I'm here to help the people that the Lord wants me to help. Right. But one of the big things with that is when I first got started doing this, I thought there was going to be all these, you know, men coming to my door, wanting to shoot me in the head, like you destroyed my

marriage. I can't believe that you, you know, brought this, you know, brought this conversation. And what has actually happened is that so many women reach out to us and they say, I know he has an OnlyFans account where he's reaching out to all these women. I know he's watching porn and he still doesn't want to quit. And can you help him? Can you force him to do this? And those are the ones that just absolutely break our heart. And it's just so incredibly sad when we hear those.

And the big things that we let them know is you need to express your heart. You need to let them know, hey, this is not right. You need to set the boundaries of what is okay and what is not okay. And you need to show them love, understanding, compassion, but also accountability. And that's where we come in of, hey, it's time to get into this program. And I don't need you to get better overnight, but I need you to take one step in the right direction. And the analogy we always like to give is it's kind of like if you're going to the gym, you know, that addict, they have to lift the weights, but you can spot them. You can be there to make sure that they don't crush their neck on the bench press or, you know, do too much weight.

You can be there for them, but you can't force them to lift the weight. And that's an unfortunate thing because I wish I could just snap my fingers and everyone's fixed and no problems. But we want them just to focus on, are they getting a little bit better? Focus on progress, applaud that progress. And that's when people start moving in the right direction. And so anyone who's struggling, we're here for you, reach out to us, let us know what we can do. And, um, you know, we'll just do whatever we can. Awesome. And thank you for that. And of course, we're going to list all of your contact information in the episode link. And, um, I don't know, I think your message, even though I know is very specific, I think it just applies to kind of like all addictions and just trauma in life. You know, like we need to heal and get better from all things just to have a better life and to live happier and healthier and gooder and gooder.

That's one of the things we always say is porn is not your problem. Yes, it is a problem, but that's not the ultimate problem that we need to handle. And this isn't about, it is about porn, right? Of course. But, you know, for myself, I was smoking a bunch. I was, you know, I love the weed gummies. I did love the weed gummies, drinking a bunch, eating a bunch. And when I found that, oh, pain is actually the problem we're dealing with.

And once that's dealt with, watch your life just transform because, you know, obviously the Lord doesn't want our hearts to be lustful. That's why he says, you know, you've heard if you commit adultery, you know, that's terrible. But if you've even looked at a woman lustfully, you've already committed adultery in your heart. And the reason why it's a big deal is like we're saying, it causes divorce and children are divorced, right? The women are four times more likely to live in poverty. The children are twice as likely to attempt suicide, more likely to do drugs. 70% of long-term incarcerated inmates are from broken families. 71% of high school dropouts are from broken families. Girls whose fathers leave before the age of five are eight times more likely to get pregnant in adolescence and in teens.

And so when we think about this of, oh, I'll just get divorced from my wife and I'll just find one of these porn stars to be with. Well, that relationship isn't going to work out either because porn stars, the chance of them having a relationship, a marriage over three years is a 25% chance. So that's going to be your second divorce after that. So who are you going to go to after that with your multiple kids and half of your income or 66% of your income then going out to these other people? What's the game plan here? And so you get a choice right now. Do I want to have that one moment of strength and vulnerability and have that conversation and start working on healing this? Or do I want to just keep going down this path?

You know too much now to go back. You know too much. So stop taking that deal that you know is the wrong one and start standing up and being the man or the woman that you're supposed to. Okay. Wow. Don't give me no lecture. Like I'm doing all that stuff. Okay. But no, really, thank you so much for coming on. I think that's a perfect note to leave the podcast on. Like you can't close out my show for me. Okay. Well, thank you again so much. It is just my honor and pleasure to be here.

And thank you again. No problem. And yes, we will list all your contact information. Thank you guys for watching. Crystal, anything for the people? Just make sure you talk about it. Talk about it, right? Whatever it is, talk about it. And you got somebody. Even if they're retarded and they laugh about it at first, they can get it together. I can get it together. Okay. So don't give up on your friends either. Right. Your friends won't give up on you. Love is love. Peace is peace. Hope you guys have a great week until next time. Peace, love, and blessings. Bye. Thank you.