These Fukken Feelings Podcast© - Emotional Cartography: Charting the Inner Landscape with Christina Carlson | Season 2.5 Ep.120

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

Send us a Text Message.In a special episode of the "These Fukken Feelings Podcast", hosts Micah & Rebecca dive deep into the emotional landscape of modern life with the inimitable Christina Carlson. Christina, known for her profound insights on her platform https://www.christinamcarlson.com/, shares her journey of self-awareness, the nuances of navigating emotions in today's ever-changing world, and her expertise on fostering authentic connections.Micah, Rebecca, and Christina engage in a...

you don't have to be positive all the time it's perfectly okay to feel sad angry annoyed frustrated scared and anxious having feelings doesn't make you a negative person it doesn't even make you weak it makes you human and we are here to talk through it all we welcome you to these fucking feelings podcast a safe space for all who needs it grab a drink and take a seat. The session begins now. What is up guys? Welcome to these fucking feelings podcast. I am Micah. Got my girl Rebecca over here with a little lazy wave. She's like being naughty today, Christina. We've been beefing all day. So just in case you sense a little bit of that energy. I'll try to refrain from.

It's her fault. Yeah. And we got our guest Christina here today. And we're actually just gonna let you introduce yourself because you do a lot of cool things. And I kind of want to give you a little disclaimer right now. My brain has probably 6 million questions. Yeah. So you're going to have to forgive me in advance because I'm going to go everywhere with you. I'll try to reign them in the best I can and keep them on track.

We'll see how this goes. We'll see how it goes. I adore being asked questions, so it's no problem at all. And I will introduce myself. My name is Christina Carlson. I am a self-relationship coach, and I like to think of myself as a story creator for myself, my own life, and for the lives of my clients. Yeah. Cool. A self-relationship coach. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I like that, too. Never heard it quite that way. And then you're also a podcast host, right? Yes, I am. I host the podcast Bitches, Witches and Queers. Love it. And I thought it was kind of cool. I was like, she's on today and it's July 1st, the beginning of Pride month. Yes, it is. Pretty cool. So if you don't mind, so I'm like, I'm gay,

but I'm an ignorant gay, right? Because I don't know much about gay culture. You know? So I've always been like the individual gay in a group. So I don't have like a lot of like LGBTQIA people in my life

to educate me a little bit so i kind of feel like i want to take advantage of this situation i'm like i don't know if i'm the one to like educate someone because i like um if we get into my story like i was cut off from like you know like people are aware of pop culture i was cut off from pop culture I was homeschooled until high school and then went to like a private school where my class was 24 people like I I lived my entire life in a bubble so like I I only came out like I think it's like six years ago now um I do have a lot of queer friends but like i i need specific questions and i don't know what like the cultural cultural i don't know like the history super well i don't know if you follow a look ben menon but they're like the best person for like lgbtq history okay who is it again

say it again a look a l-o-k okay Menon, they're a poet and an activist and their stuff is incredible, it's also like really educational, like they're queer and like I've always just been the outcasted gay person like oh, that's Micah, but he's gay but he's cool, like that was always my

introduction to people like he's gay but he's gay, but he's cool. Like that was always my introduction to people. Like he, he's gay, but he's cool. You know, the token, token queer. And I'm like, Oh my God. And then someone asked me the other day about a cisgender. And I was like, I don't know. Like, why are you calling me sis? Yeah. I don't know what that is, But we'll stay away from that, actually. I'll go back into, like, this self-relationship coach. Like, when did you know that's what you wanted to do? Well, I mean, it's very relevant to being queer and a queer community. A relationship with yourself is, like, so fundamental to so many things. And I know, like, with we had this rising arc of self-help,

right. And all of this stuff came out. And then there was like, I know you've talked about this on your podcast before. There's a lot of toxic positivity and like this overarching, like we just need to be happy all the time and that's going to fix it. Right. But then there's also the therapy that got a little bit into just like now we're trauma digging and trying to like find problems all the time. But something that I found to be detrimental in my own personal journey arc is developing a way to be with these fucking feelings in my own life. life and instead of trying to fix me myself or trying to always find a solution for a problem or whatever rather to be able to be with myself with compassion and to be on my own side when things are really hard so that's like the root of a self-relationship is like actually when you mess up when you trust your intuition and it goes sideways, how to then be with yourself and not say I'm an idiot, but rather like, no, it's OK.

I'm OK. I can still be here for me. And when did you realize that that was kind of like important, like that was an important thing? Was there like a situation in your life or something that made you realize like I need to like, you know, cohabitate with myself a little bit? I love it. I love that. Cohabitateitate with myself that's a beautiful way to put it um well i was raised in radical religious groups so i don't know if you've seen the documentaries like jesus camp or like the the really extreme midwestern evangelical fundamentalist bible movement so it's a very specific niche form of christianity that's really you know they there's a specific understanding within it that we are bad and that we're our bodies are particularly sinful and evil um so there is a huge disconnection in myself

from from me and my body and who I thought I was outside of my body. And there was this, this basically this war, I was at war with myself almost constantly, like trying to battle the flesh is what we call it. Right, right, right. Which like, you know, there's a lot of analogies within Christianity that I'm like, yeah, those are great, you know,

great stories and analogies and a lot of wisdom. And, and also the particular tradition that I was raised in was, um, really extreme. And I found that I, I was often, um, I was often uncomfortable and miserable and didn't know how I got there. I, I didn't, um, I didn't feel like I knew what I wanted. I actually dated someone off and on for seven years and it was an emotionally abusive relationship. And I spent five of those years asking God whether I should be with this person or not. And it was just like this constant, but I want to know your will. I don't know. Please tell me. Eventually I was just so physically miserable that I was like, God said we should break up. Which is like, you know, who can argue with that? So we did, but it was like, I, after that, I realized that I was fundamentally insecure within myself. And I began to go on this journey

of reconnecting with my physical body and also just exploring mental health and like what does it mean to to be a person that like trusts themselves and isn't like desperately clinging to another human being like it was this journey away from codependence and into interdependence into that like growing relationship with myself so it kind of happened organically but that really was kind of the beginning. Cool. Nice. And that's actually, it was my, and it's funny before you came on, we were talking about religion a little bit because I was saying that, you know, so my mom wasn't like really, really religious, but we were Catholic, went to Catholic churches and stuff like that. Like my brothers all did their confirmation and their communion.

But the one thing that I always got about God, like, that scared me was the punishment. Like, everything you do, he's going to punish you. You know, don't do this. You're going to be punished and your sins and your sins. And it kind of was just like, I don't know if I want to believe in this God character. If he always going to be punishing me, like, I don't want to do that. So I understand a little bit kind of your journey. Cause that's kind of the journey I kind of went on to a little bit was like,

and even now it's funny because I still have those moments where it's like, Oh, am I doing God's will? And then like, is there a God that exists outside of myself? You know? Yeah. Yeah. It's very, it's very like traumatizing to hear as a kid that if you do the wrong thing, you're going to hell. I have a, I have a kid right now and her teachers, bless them, are trying to like teach her to follow the rules and they keep threatening her with jail and, and she'll come home and she'll be terrified and I'm like that's not what's gonna happen like you have 20 years to like you know

make mistakes and like it's not gonna happen if you don't brush your teeth like the kids take the next step to something right and we were told specifically that like you know a thought that happens in your mind, a feeling, could be something that would register eternal damnation. Right. And that's utterly terrifying and traumatizing that there's no actual evidence for it. Right. It's imprinted in your body. Definitely.

Have you been able to separate religion and your body successfully I mean, successfully at, at this point in life? Yeah. I mean, I want to say like, I'm healed. Um, but I, I definitely feel like, uh, there, there is a lot that has moved through my system. And, um, interestingly enough, a lot of that has been found through discovering a different way of being with spirituality a different way of being with prayer a different way of being with ritual and like i went through um devoted energy coaching school with sarah schilling and practice energy coaching and in that i found a spiritual community that is not even remotely religious and And for me, that's been really healing because I was always really like mystical person. I was really like outdoors. I

love Pocahontas because I wanted to have a tree as a best friend that gave me wisdom. Like that was like my vibe and is still like who I am. So like leaving religion, I did go to this like really rigid, like, I don't believe in anything that I can't see. So like there's room for exploration and in faith that isn't actually harmful. And that has been something that's been really healing for my body. But as far as like really like separating that from my body, I'm sure there's like a joint somewhere that I'm going to move in yoga and then start weaving at some point. Cause like, it just keeps coming up. Definitely. And that's kind of one of my struggles too, just because, you know, I went through a lot of molestation when I was younger. And then you hear, you know, a lot about, you know, church and

the body and kind of like you said, and your body's your temple. And I'm like, all these people destroying my temple and I'm feeling guilty about it because they're telling me it's wrong. And it's like, what the hell do I do? And it was completely the wrong lessons that I was getting at the time. Yeah, it's so confusing when the messages, like depending on how you were socialized,

whether you're socialized as a man or a woman, you have different messages around sexuality, but there is a lot of shame placed on anyone within that system. And there is this idea that like we're, we are supposed to have control while completely surrendering control. So when we're supposed to have control and make those choices and something like that happens to us, it's so disorienting, especially for a young mind because you can't hold these despairing truths at

the same time. It just doesn't compute. So you assume based on what you've been told that it's your fault. Yeah. But it's not. Right. Cool. I went through that for for years but so with your certified life and energy coaching what sorts of things um do you do with that um area of special tea yeah um so i think i understand the question okay you know what rebecca makes notes right and then she always does this she makes notes and then she doesn't want to

like read from it and now she sounds crazy you guys just read the damn notes and then i try to formulate the question in my head beforehand. But then there's silence. And then I have to hurry up and ask the question. But I should just read my freaking paper. Just read it. Nobody here is judging you. We won't judge you for looking down.

And also, I get it. I heard Micah Earl on an earlier episode start asking a question that just kept going and going. And I was like, I do that all the time. I'm like, I'm going to get to the question. Yesterday's episode, for instance, I was like, Micah, she's got the point. You need to stop now. And you know, it's always one question leads into another question. And now I need the answer to all of these questions.

But it's the same question. It's why you're here. I do too. You know, I am awful at trying to ask a question because my mind is just spinning on so many different things. And I end up not really asking question and or asking the question. And I have no idea what question I asked. So let's go ahead and now. Yeah. So I just was kind of wondering what sorts of things you do in specialized. Oh, Jesus.

So try again. I guess before we go into your question, though, let's start at the beginning. When did you know that this is something you wanted to teach? Yeah. When did I know I wanted to coach or when did I know I wanted to go into this niche? Well, I guess both. Yeah. Okay.

In the, like, right before the pandemic hit in 2020, I was on a hike with my sister. And I've been on this journey of trying to figure out, like, what I wanted a hike with my sister. And I've been on this journey of trying to figure out like what I wanted to do with my life. And like a lot of things in my life, because I'm dramatic, happened dramatically. So my sister and I were like, the world is ending, you know, because it's all in the news and the pandemic has hit the US and like, I'm still working at a hospital at this point. And so my sister and I are having these conversations. We're like, I'm still working at a hospital at this point. And so my sister and I are having these conversations. We're like, you know, like, what do you really want to do? Like, what really matters?

We're getting into that. And I said to her, I was like, I think if I could just listen to people all day, I would do that. I would just ask people questions and listen. She's like, I think that's called a life coach or a therapist. And I was like, oh my God. So I was like, as the sun is setting on one side, we're on a hill, the sun is setting, the moon, the full moon is rising. And it's like, I'm going to be a life coach. And it was like lightning struck right in between, right? Yep. And I was like, okay, that's it. So that was the moment I was like, this is it.

This is the thing. And then I found an incredible school and started. And the first session I had, I was like, oh, I was born to do this. It's just felt so in line with myself. And the company that I was working with was so in line with my values. It was just like this beautiful flow of finding something that really matters to me. And as far as like my specific niche, I ended up because, because we do attract people with the same trauma. I really do think that, um, I ended up attracting a lot of people who have left religion and gone through

harmful, um, experiences in their childhood, whether that be in patriarchy or with abuse or with the church. There was a lot of varying degrees of like religious or not, but a lot of them had similar trauma within having been socialized a certain way or oppressed by their family or a family member. And so I ended up realizing that at the crux of all of this, what was me on my own journey and my relationship with myself and the things that ended up coming out and being shared from their wisdom and me mirroring their wisdom was that we needed to know ourselves. And a lot of my clients say that i have like this

like side by side energy it's like i i'm not above you i'm not better than you i'm just like here with you right and the the power of that experience can't be overestimated so like have someone who's like with you in process not necessarily giving you the answer but for really being in that fucking feelings with me right and i'm gonna quote you with that because you know one thing i thought was really cool listen to your podcast where basically you said you was fucking human and it was like i go through things too just because i'm a coach and i'm in this field doesn't mean that i'm perfect and have it together. And anybody who says that needs to get a life coach. I don't know if you said all that,

but that's what I heard. I like that you have a certain niche because we've interviewed other other life coaches, I guess, that had their own sort of niches, only maybe not so direct as religion. So I like that, you know, you're kind of targeting a certain area of expertise and, and, you know, finding people on that level. That's pretty cool. Yeah. It's a, it is a unique experience. I mean, it's not like, I'm not alone in it. There's a lot of people, I mean, clearly, whether Catholic, Mormon, Islam, there's, there's a lot of like a lot of different groups that have been radicalized that then breed or grow people like us. I don't know how to say that.

You did a good job. That's an interesting way. Indoctrinated. That's the word I was trying to say. Indoctrinated people like us when we were younger with these like more extreme philosophies. And, and that takes,

that takes healing. And what better, what better way to do that than with one another? Right. Definitely. I have my brother. I was talking to them about him earlier. He's Muslim. And it's funny because, you know, with our podcast this season, we actually been doing really, really well. And, you know, I get excited. They publish the article about us in a newspaper. I'm sending it to my family. Check this out. And then we made the top 100 on Apple Podcasts. Now we're in the top 25 and number seven in mental health. And I'm like, these are things to be proud of. And I send a group text to my family and he calls me and he's like, stop bragging. And I'm like, I'm not bragging. I'm

proud of my moment. But to him, it was like, you need to make sure you're being thankful. Thank God for all this or he's going to take it away. away and i'm like that's not what i need to hear right now um so it like put me back in my fear moment like am i bragging like should i post this like do i need to be excited about how well we're doing like that that specific rhetoric of like it's gonna go away if you allow yourself to celebrate it is why joy is so vulnerable oh yeah we we like i mean i'm sure there's other reasons as well but in my experience it's very similar to yours it's like if you're not grateful if you're not humble right whatever the context of that was fed to us in, there is this constant fear that it's going to disappear.

If you really let yourself love something, get attached to something, really be in it, then it's going to be taken from you. Right. And even me and all my bliss, sometimes I'm still like, oh God, the shoe is going to drop. And it's going to be a really ugly one with mud and everything else on it. And not only am I going to pick up the shoe, I'm going to clean the stain. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm like preparing myself. But but I'm working on myself, Christine. So I'm working on myself.

It's still a journey. Oh, yeah. It's a journey. I'm still on my journey. It's a good one, though. No, it is a good one. I'm right here beside him. Although he tries to push me out. I fired her like four times. Yes. And not just from this, from my life.

Yeah. You know, she had an attitude. He just can't take it. She had an attitude today. You know what I mean? He can't take it. Of course they attitude today. He can't take it. Chris, we're not going to have no therapy session right now. I was like, I want to know more.

You know, I've been trying. I try to close my office door and do work, right? I got some admin stuff to do. They in there bothering me. Yeah. You know, so it was Rebecca. And Crystal is our producer. She's the one back here pushing buttons.

So we kind of work together in our day job too. And they bullied me all day today. Oh, Lord. So it's been hard for me. If you believe that, then I'm sorry. All right. We're going to get back to Christine. We're going to get back to christina we're gonna get back to christina so but i so when when did you realize that you had something that people needed to hear

because i know it's like a hard issue for me sometimes like do people want to hear what the fuck i got to say you know like i'm over here talking but do people really want to listen to this shit you know what like i i don't actually know and i i love that because like you said something earlier i you you were talking about something that i had said and you were like i don't know if that's what you said but that's what i got from it and i was like that that that is what i know happens with what i say is and and that's why i think it's important to keep talking because my entire life I've just like said stuff and in conversation people have been like oh my god that's amazing

and then they take it and then when I hear about it later it's like that's not really what I said but cool right I I think of myself like art like my my words are art and I'm not taking the way I want to be taken all the time. That's impossible. But somehow more often than not, someone takes wisdom from me or my story that they had in themselves already. They just needed it to be reflected to them. So it's like you help awaken me essentially yeah yeah it's like it's just i mean i don't know like i feel like that's a that's a common insecurity do people really want to hear what i have to say right it's like i i don't know how many people want to hear what i have to say right but i do know quite a few people have reflected back

to me that this has been supportive. And I don't know if you follow Simone Sol at all. She's a... Your Korean mom is like otherwise she calls herself. She's a

life coach for coaches, a business coach in marketing. She does marketing. But she talks about this exercise called like the file effects of awesomeness, where you keep screenshots in words and emails that people have said to you about something specific that you feel is a struggle for you. So like your podcast or whatever, it's like every time you hear something positive, you screenshot it and put it in this folder.

And then every time you go to do something with it, you read it right before. So you're re-cementing, you're re-anchoring into this place of like, oh, yeah, this is why I'm here. It's actually this is what's true. I'm not saying like millions of people want to listen to me. Right, right, right, right. But I am anchoring into the reality that some people do. Right. And if it's just one, that's all.

I'm good with one. If I can help one person. I know that I don't have anything really to offer but inviting guests on, but I'm good at getting guests. You know what I'm saying? So it's like. And he has a great sense of humor. So, you know, if people want to come on and hear great topics and, you know, feel comfortable saying and hearing what they want to might stop looking at me like what she's trying to say.

Here's some, you know, insightful things. They'll get a great sense of humor while they're at it. Well, you know, one thing that I did in my mental health journey, I'm going to call it, is that I did it alone. And I didn't realize how difficult I made it for myself by doing it alone. And I didn't know how to trust anybody else with any part of me. You know, I had been vandalized, I like to call it, my whole life. So and then I ended up getting cancer on top of that. So it was like, OK, other people try to kill me and now I'm trying to kill me, too. I need to breathe for a moment, you know, because that's kind of how I saw cancer.

It was myself trying to kill myself. And, you know, I had to learn about a lot about love. And I always say that I think love is the way I survived cancer because I learned to love it. You know, I loved it enough to get rid of it, you know, which was like a unique thing. But I know I went through a lot of dark moments that I felt like if I would have tried to look for help or seek help or maybe try to trust somebody, it wouldn't have been so dark, you know? Oh, but I might argue with you here just a little bit. Okay. Because, for one, you just offered something truly incredible in sharing your story. And you do that on this podcast quite a bit. Thank you. And also, like, our bodies are trying to protect us.

So even if that's not what it felt like, then that wasn't your experience. And that's perfectly fine. But you not reaching out in that moment it's probably because it felt like too much right so you found your own way offering yourself love in this way to make it through and that's just fucking brilliant thank you that's not a failing that's your coping strategy because it fucking worked for you right right right and and i guess that's kind of cool and our point to all of this is like find what works for you i always say it every episode like we all have we may not all feel that we have traumas but i kind of feel like we all have

some kind of trauma did you guys ever see the show candy on hulu not yet i saw my list a couple episodes so i can't even use my analogy now so after you watch it we're gonna hook back up and we're gonna talk about that because it's it's like incredible what she like said triggered her you know and it was like and initially you hear and you'd be like that shit is stupid as hell like someone popping gum that wasn't it i'm just using an example you know but it was like something that simple like someone popping gum triggered her and now she stabbed somebody 40 times and it's like you are crazy as hell but that can be triggering to some people you know yeah you don't you don't know um very very similarly the sinner i don't know. Very, very similarly, the sinner.

I don't know if you've seen that. Very similar premise. It's like someone has a back history of trauma that they don't remember at all. And then something happens and they do something really violent. We don't know what's stored in our bodies, especially because we've been socialized to disconnect from them, to support capitalism and just produce more and more. So we can't do that if we're connected with our bodies. We are cyclical beings. We need to be like, you know, resting some of the time. And when we come back in touch with that, it can be a lot.

And it's important to take your time with that. But like, it's so interesting because those experiences are triggered like auditory a smell a taste like a part of your body that's why i mentioned yoga earlier i was like i've done yoga and like i moved something with my hip and then i was like weeping and i'm like i don't know what happened but it's like it it lives in there you know yeah i try to do yoga and then i was in there with a whole bunch of old women and i was looking like i was a thousand years old compared to them and i said i'm not coming back because y'all don't show me up i can't even bend my knee they talking about

do a downward dog i'm like can i just stand up and do it? Oh, sorry. So tell us a little bit about your practice. So do you like have sessions with people? Yeah, that was my question. I knew we was going to get there. I wanted to start at the beginning. That was like what I was trying to say. Yeah. That's where the question was going to end up right all right yeah i i do one-on-one work um right now that's really what feels most resonant to me um you can do it virtually yes okay yes so it's through zoom um usually an hour-long session and what we're doing really is ultimately we're getting to that self-relationship and underneath everything we're coming back to that kind of like the crux of a lot of my work is supporting people to be less judgmental and

more compassionate with themselves in their own mind and in their own body bodily experience right um so a lot of that is mindset shift but also it's practices that we like use their own wisdom to come up with that support them in their unique life and situation. To be able to begin to listen to and take small steps and risks to trust themselves in ways that don't feel like they're going to overwhelm your nervous system. Pretty cool. I feel like you need to say all that again, because this world needs to like hear everything you said. Because when you when you get to love yourself, we get to love each other. Maybe we'll stop living in this horrible place that we kind of live in right now. I really like how you put it on your website, how you worded it here. And I will read right from my paper this time. It's possible to heal your relationship with yourself so that you can

have your back, be a safe space for yourself and be your own biggest advocate. I think that is brilliant. Really well said. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate that. When I wrote that, I was specifically thinking about a moment um I think it was in 2020 we were I think you know violating the quarantine rule and having a backyard neighborhood something or other and we were playing games and

there was it was a bubble of like 28 people right rule breaker sorry um it was a bubble of like 28 people, right? Rule breaker. And then you worked at a hospital. So now you like really, really like rebellious. Not when I was at the hospital, not when I was at the hospital. I quit before then. Okay. But I, it's so interesting that you mentioned like the popping of the gum or something like that.

Cause I was at this party, I'm like three years into like working through trauma in my life and hadn't been triggered by anything in a while. And we were at this party and someone like the way they said, like, I don't want to do this in this way. And it was like, it instantly felt personal to me. And I was like, I just instantly started to cry. And I was like, I need a minute. And I was able to like, go to the bathroom and like, be with myself. And I was, I had learned self-compassion practices. So I was like, being with that experience and being kind to myself and like, bringing in my

inner adult to be like, do we want to stay? Do we need to take you home? You can go home if you need to. And like, that was the first experience. I was like, Oh, this shit fucking works. It doesn't make this go away, but it allows me to be here and to be in it and to, to decide without adding more trauma to that experience now i can make a choice and i was like this this this is what people need to know right how to be with this because life is fucking wild and we've got like so much shit that's come at us in the past few years more than that yesterday and yesterday every fucking day yeah and and i can't fix that and i really wish i could like i would love to

control everything and fix it you know not that i would be able to do that but like you know control is a desire that i think everyone has and only i like I wish I could and what I can offer is being with people in that and also supporting them to come up with a way so that they can be with themselves because we do need to advocate for ourselves and we don't come into self-relationship by ourselves we do it in community definitely and I feel like it's also learning how to trust yourself a little bit like or maybe that you should be the only person you trust really when it comes to you yeah that is that is a whole other topic i feel like but very interesting i kind of agree i feel about that but. Self-trust is something that you build as you learn to be with yourself.

It's something that you learn in compassion with yourself. And it's also something that like you can't. One thing that's really interesting to me is like I thought, of of course, that like, because I was taught in heaven, right? I was taught in like being perfected over time. I still have this notion in my head that once I did all the self-help things, I would never be triggered again. And I would have arrived somewhere that I could lead everyone to. And I could like, that I would just have arrived. And I think one of the most profound shifts for me was when I realized that trusting myself wasn't going to mean that I would know things. But trusting myself really just meant that

when I fuck it up, I know that it's going to be okay and that I'm not going to be the one beating myself up about it. I wish that's where I need to be in and that I'm not going to be the one beating myself up about it. I wish that that's where I need to be in life sometimes. Amen. Yeah. That's something I need to work on. That is some work. It's the work.

Yeah, definitely. I went through a long period of life where I didn't trust myself and I felt like I had to learn that, you know, I always felt like you let all these people do all this stuff to you and now you want to tell me what to that, you know, I always felt like you let all these people do all this stuff to you. And now you want to tell me what to do? You know, I went through that kind of anger with myself. So I guess I can see where you're saying like, well, you know, it's kind of what I thought because I never like told anybody. I let it go on for a long time. You know, it wasn't until I was like a grown adult and it hadn't happened that I actually confessed it to like my mom and told family and, you know, realized that there was a lot of anger there because I feel like you should have saw that this was happening to me. Yeah. But, um, but I guess it was compassion. Maybe I, I guess I started having like, you were younger and realized that,

you know, you, you couldn't, these were grown adults and you, you know, the mindset was different. And then, you know, I'm thinking at five years old that they're going to kill my mom or I'm going to hurt somebody. And it's like, oh, shit. Like, I got to do this for real, for real. You know, everybody's life is like depending on it, you know. And it was, so I guess compassion is really kind of what I had to learn for myself to. Even that feels vulnerable. Right.

Okay, Christina, look at you teaching already well I mean in my experience compassion for myself is one of the most vulnerable things I had to offer because if I was going to offer compassion that would mean that I would have to like accept the really like weird shit about me the stuff that I just don't like to be okay with i would have to love those parts of me i'm like what if everyone else hates me and i'm like over here like i love me and everyone's like ew like that's the fear that's the vulnerability of it and it's like no i'm gonna be on my own side even when people are like ew like that's vulnerable oh yeah it's tough now does it has it or can it make you too compassionate period because me i love everybody and like there are people that like these people

over here they be talking about them and they don't like them or whatever and i'd be like how could you not like this person they're incredible as he still has the gun in his hand. What are you talking about? I need a more precise question. I know. I'm kind of lost a little bit. I guess what I was trying to ask was- Where did he go? Yeah, we went somewhere different.

Y'all wasn't ready for that. No. I was on my spiritual talk, see? But no, I guess kind of what- Crystal is really over there laughing at me, y'all. And she about to be fired too. You can get fired today. So y'all gonna make me cut that out.

So now I'm gonna edit that part out. No, you are. I knew the question. You, oh, you understood what I was saying, right? I guess I was saying by learning compassion for yourself, is it possible to have too much compassion now for other people? Like, is this something you should be scared of?

That's what I was trying to say. That's the first question I heard, and then I didn't get the gun still in your hand. I just, my mom was like, wait, what? Who got a gun? I was like, what? That was my example. I was saying, you know, like,

everybody else would be like, he killed somebody. Wait a second. And he'll still have the gun in his hand. And I'll be like, well, you don't know his story. You don't know what he's been through. Wait a second. And he'll still have the gun in his hand. And I'll be like, well, you don't know his story. You don't know what he's been through. Hold the phone. So Crystal understood this? Yeah.

Crystal understood it. Okay. Wow. I feel like we need to introduce you to Crystal. Christina. Christina, I want you to meet. This is a problem. Yeah, we're going to make, if she look, if she could realize how to get it on.

This episode has just been crazy already. All right. We had to move a camera. Crystal's our producer and she just kind of gives us a lot of directions. But today she's just laughing. Nice to meet you. Crystal, Christina. Christina, Crystal. Alright, Crystal, you go back away now. Okay, we're done with you. Now it's time for Christina to answer the question. I really love this question because there is,

there is something quite nuanced in our culture about like kindness and harm and like compassion and also just like losing accountability. Like if there's compassion, does that mean there's not accountability? If there's like kindness, does that mean we're coddling? So I think it is important to note, like you can't, I don't think, have too much compassion.

You can coddle people and you can like let people get away without being accountable. But accountability can include compassion right like if someone did kill someone it's like okay well there needs to be accountability like they need therapy they need to be separate from most people for a while like they need a space where they won't cause more harm or you know there needs to be accountability for what has happened and we don't need to demonize someone who's whatever because we want to like so something interesting that happens and

i i'll give a really weird example of this but i was sitting next to someone at work once and they told me that um someone had gotten in a car wreck it wasn't someone they knew but they crashed their car and a child you know lost their life okay and the person sitting next to me her immediate response was she was probably texting and i felt that in my core and i was like oh my god like why would she say that and so I like I sat with that for a while and I was like we do this because we want to control it right we want to say uh this will not happen to me because I would not be texting right so we put a person yeah so we put a judgment on it so that we can control it that wouldn't happen to me because i'm not like whatever

right and and a good point we create this distance so that we can set ourselves apart it's usually an ego thing right egos so like make sure that we're not that kind of person right right it's protective yeah it's pretty cool i never thought about it i always you know to me i always thought it was funny when people like stuck in traffic and they'd be like, it better be an accident. And I'm like, why should there better be an accident? Why are we saying this? No, there not better be an accident. Why can't there just be a name in the middle of the aisle? Like a cow or something. I was like, I i trust i understand you completely because it is crazy everybody wants to i don't know and i feel like everybody goes negative first too like everybody's

first thing is like a negative response and maybe not everybody but you know i'm just saying yeah the world right now is like always kind of they err on the side of negative a lot of times it's protective like our brains are wired to remember the bad shit first because that's how we survive. So we see threat. We scan for threat. Even if, you know, we're not doing it like a cougar anymore. It's just like this vibe that we have. And so when something pops out or stands out the most to us, it is the negative.

Hence, like why the news tends to like cater to the more triggering things. Yeah. It's so. That's why I don't watch the news. I watch them and that more triggering things. It's so, I don't watch the news. I watch them and that's it. Oh my God. Look, I am the most ignorant person ever.

Like don't ask me nothing. I don't, if gas prices are up, I'm just going to pay them. If they down, cool. I don't know the difference. Like,

it's just some things in my life. I don't have time for. Yeah. Because I feel like I'm here to love people. Yeah. And that's kind of what I want to do right now. I don't have time for. Yeah. Because I feel like I'm here to love people. Yeah. And that's kind of what I want to do right now. I just want to love everybody. Yeah.

But, Christina, I have a question. And I kind of want to go back to something you said earlier, right? But before I answer that question, I want you to know I have this little saying, right? Is that I said I wanted to be held, but not held accountable. Okay? Just remember that. I just want to be held. But you're going to be held accountable. Okay. Just remember that. I just want to be held. You're going to be held accountable.

What if being held accountable is being held? Right. That's a good one too. Because if being held accountable is done right with compassion, then is that not holding someone? Right. Okay. Two snaps.

So is, I know we talked about ever if there's ever a possibility of having too much compassion and you said no not really but for yourself would too much compassion almost be like maybe feeling sorry for yourself and on the opposite end of the spectrum, maybe wallowing in your own self-pity or is that like the negative side of compassion? Or even just letting yourself get away with accountability. Like there's no compassion that you just don't hold yourself accountable for nothing. So I guess that's a two-part question. Ooh, there's so much I could dive into here. Okay.

First of all, it's curious. It's curious that in our culture, the first thing that happens when we think about compassion or pleasure, we're worried that there's going to be too much because we've been taught that we don't know, that we need an outside something to hold ourselves in check. As a society that's taught, we need to be something to hold ourselves in check as a society that's taught we need to be

this amount of productive and do this amount of things whatever we tend to think that we ourselves and our desires and our needs need to be kept in check so that's something that i just want to call out like that we kind of including myself tend to tend to come up, that feeling comes up. It's like, but what if I'm too compassionate to myself? Like, what if I'm, like, you know, enjoying myself too much? Like, will that, like, fuck up my life, right? Right. You know, you just taught me that there is no such thing as too much pleasure. So we're here.

Okay. Pleasure is fuel. We can thank Ev evian whitney for that um but then i want but then i do want to address what you're talking about this this wallowing or like is is too much compassion going to be like me sitting in self-pity but compassion isn't pity right there there there is this nuanced difference where if you are saying, if you're sitting and going, woe is me, you can,

you can notice that. And you're, you're stuck in a, um, or not stuck there, but there's like a, it's called a conflict triangle where you have like the victim, the persecutor.

And, um, what's the other one? The rescuer. So you've got this triangle. And when you're, when you're in the victim one, which is,

you know, my favorite place to play, it's like, poor me, what was me? Seems easiest to play, right? Well, for me, it is. I feel like for a lot of people socialized as women, it can be easy to fall into that category, but it's, we all play all, all roles in different conflicts. We all do that. And when we're in self-pity, we tend to be in this place where instead of offering yourself compassion and being like, this is really hard for me, we're saying, why me? Why is this happening to me? Which is also okay. I think even that needs compassion. It's like, oh, I'm stuck in this victim thing. This is really hard. Right.

Like there is no point in that triangle. There's no point in your stage of self-pity or depression that you can't offer yourself compassion as to be a support there. Does that answer the question? It does. It does. I mean, I think maybe even hearing me ask that question you might get out of that that i struggle a little bit with that i i i'm afraid no she didn't get that i wouldn't i wouldn't assume no and and we. I'm just joking. No. So I. No, no. Come on. Go.

So. Get it out. Say it. Say it. I struggle, actually, a little bit with that, with feeling like I'm going to get stuck in a place of feeling sorry for myself or others thinking I'm feeling sorry for myself and therefore they shut down and not want to listen to me. So I feel like she was talking about me right there. No, no, no, no, no, no. But I did. That's just like kind of where I'm stuck in life a lot of the time. Yeah. You're not alone in that experience. Definitely.

That, that feeling of like, I, the second part that you mentioned, which is like people, other people won't want to be around that because you're like, they'll think you're feeling, feeling sorry for yourself too much is is really tender even hearing you say that I'm like oh that's that's so like I feel that in my childhood

self it's like no one wanted to listen to like how hard this was for you right you know um well we all deserve a space or a place or a person where we can go and ask for them to listen and ask for them to hold that space right and as far as being stuck there i feel like and i don't know this for your specific experience, but when you said that, what came up for me was like, that feels like my experiences with depression. And when I've, when I've been in, I have, um, ADHD and depression and anxiety, um, anxiety and depression both came from ADHD. Um,

but in, in moments where it's been, when I've been more depressed, are the moments when I felt stuck and self-pity. And I'm not saying that to give any kind of an answer, but just that like, that's a real and valid feeling because there is a lot of the time, a sense of hopelessness around life, around our lives, around the world and the things that we can't control.

And I don't know why this is coming into my head, but I was talking with someone on a call yesterday and I was like, when I'm depressed, I just tend to lay in bed and watch TV. Right. So I was like, you know what, you know what I do? If it's like too hard for me, I literally like roll off the bed and watch tv right so um i was like you know you know what i do if it's like too hard for me i literally like will roll off the bed and onto the floor oh wow because because there's this sense of like not you know i'm not gonna hurt myself my bed's pretty low to the ground but like getting on the actual floor and allowing my body to feel that sensation is this way of like bringing me back to myself i can cry on the floor

but for some reason it feels different than crying on the bed on the floor it's like there no but also you can feel how supportive it is you can feel that the ground is holding you and it's it can be really helpful for me to shift that. Not even move the self-pity, but cry for myself in the self-pity. It's okay to have a fucking pity party. Things are hard.

They are. I just want a piece of cake. From the party. Oh, yeah. Cake. Sorry, Rebecca. Actually, I wanted to ask too. She's coming up with all sorts of wild, crazy things. It was a pity party. Oh, yeah. Cake. Sorry, Rebecca. But you know what? Actually, I wanted to ask too. He's coming up with all sorts of wild crazy things. It was a pity

party. I like it. I love cake. Funfetti cake. But I wanted to ask what do you... Okay, because we were talking about kind of like the situation where you know, it's like no one wants to be around me kind of situation. But how do... How should a person respond dealing with a

person like that you know like you know it's like how what can you do to be supportive and for a person to know that you're supporting them in their pity party bring cake i I mean, depending on who you are in your relationship to this person, that might be really funny and enjoyable for them. However, I mean, I think one thing that I would say for the person who's being with another person who's going through something difficult is to monitor your own capacity and to intentionally make time to be with that person. So if this person, if your friend is continually all the time in this space, then you need to make sure that you're taking care of yourself as well. And since you love them, be intentional about the time that you spend with them.

Say, hey, I don't have capacity right now, but let's go out and I'll spend an hour at coffee and I just want to hear how you're doing. Right. Because that's what you would do with a kid. It's like you can't. I can't spend the entire day with my daughter while she's pissed about not being able to watch 10 hours of TV a day. However, I will sit with her this evening

and take that time because life does happen and we all have to do things. And if you're still making yourself available and being intentional about that while still caring for yourself, you're going to make, you're going to be able to maintain that relationship without bitterness more likely. And you're also going to let this person know that you really do care that

you're human and you can't spend your entire day. Right. I can't stay with you all day, child. But here, take this little weed pill and call me in the morning. What's a weed pill? Marijuana comes in pill form now. Oh, I've only ever heard of gummies and like candy. Capsules, tablets. Not that I know from experience. We don't talk about that on the internet. I actually have a medical card.

So it's okay. It's legal because I got a cord. Because they was like, you got ADHD, you bipolar, you slow. Like they don't told me I was all these things. And it's a cord, not a card. I just want to point that out. Okay. First thing you know, because now Rebecca's acting up.

But no, you said something earlier, and I feel like it was said in previous episodes, but I never really asked anybody to explain it. And you said anchor. What does that mean? Yeah. Yeah. So anchor, when I think of anchor, I love that you asked this because people use words in so many different capacities for, for me, when I think of an anchor, it's, it is something that like roots me into place. Right. So, uh, an anchor for me is something that brings me back to this present moment. I like consider my spiritual practice, practicing being with what is that

includes my feelings. that includes like being in my physical body, in my house, in wherever, like in this moment, really being here is my spiritual practice. So an anchor is anything that's going to help me stay here. For me in this space, it's the way that I've decorated it it's like textures like you know this kind of stuff it's like anything that i'm like oh it brings me back to right here right so it's like um it's like a token in some ways but it's something that for me brings my heart to a stable place like your breath your breath can be an anchor in the way that I'm talking about right now. I actually have a mantra

and I was saging these two today because they was getting on my nerves. So I had to sage them. So I was saying my little mantra while I was saging them because she needed it, everything. You hear me? But actually I always ended with

and I anchor myself in this present moment. So it was kind of cool that you said those exact words because I'm like, OK, I see you energy. I see you. I want to talk a little bit. I want to talk to a little bit, too, before we have to end about manifestation. Right. Because I heard you and someone else talking about on your podcast. And I'm sorry, I do not remember her name, but she was talking about like her husband's really good or her partner was really good at manifesting things and like they move and like the car and you know trying to remember who i was talking to i can't remember what episode it was it was just it was cool but you know you guys were talking

about i know she was oh and even a phrase like you said she was a certain kind of manifester oh okay i was probably talking about like human said, she was a certain kind of manifester. Oh, okay. I was probably talking about, like, human design, probably. There's, like, this idea of specific manifester or non-specific manifester. There you go. Yes, yes, yes. I, like, am cautious about the conversation around manifestation because I think a lot of it is, like, infiltrated with, like, white women bullshit um so i want to be careful that it's not like spiritual bypassing um but when i think of manifestation i feel like i'm thinking of the space of doing what i was talking about earlier being with what is not resisting reality and being intentional about what you want so for me that's always been like

um being non-specific with it it's like i know i have a desire for this a desire for whatever it is doesn't matter like i would we want to buy a home right and then the home that comes up is like it's everything i wanted or close enough or whatever it's like it's perfect for us and whereas someone else is like they feel like they sense exactly what it is they're wanting and that's what they end up finding and like nuance and like you know cultural privilege and there's a lot of shit in there but the general idea is that you are intending you're focusing on what you're desiring instead of focusing on what you don't want right um and and it's like your feet facing and your body facing in a direction

is going to lead your feet there or vice versa right like but usually it's your attention is moving you towards something. And I think allowing yourself to be with what is not resisting reality and being intentional about what you desire is leading you to manifest and create your own path. Right. If that makes sense.

That makes sense. Yeah, I'm actually gonna put the link to the podcast in this episode when we play it because I thought, I mean, I thought it was really, really cool. So I'm new. Like I said, I'm kind of in my journey searching for whatever is real to me. My problem is I feel like you can recognize the truth when you hear it, right? I feel like some things you could just feel like, oh, this is true. But then I think that about everything. Everything is true, okay? Because everything makes sense, right? Yes, yes. In fact, you can literally make an argument for everything and everything in some dimension, in some capacity can be true. That's why debate is a thing. Right, and you can't have a person like me now thinking that everything can be true, right?

Because now, I don't know where the hell I'm going. No, I know where I'm going, but I'm talking about I don't know where I'm going. Did that make sense? Yep. But, cool. Okay, let's go to another topic, because before we get off, I want to ask you this. Shut up, Chris. I told you I got a million things to ask you, right? Because I've been listening to your podcast,

you know, reading. I'm like a transitional lover. Yes, we all did your test. I can't believe we didn't talk about this and we only have 20 seconds left. Oh, transformational lover. I'm a transformational lover, yeah. So it's pretty cool. It is.

It's spot on. We all shared it and they were all like really, really spot on. I'm a modern muse. Yeah, so trust really spot on. I'm a modern muse. Yeah, so trust me. She's a modern muse. And Crystal? Earthy mystic. She was a mystic. Won't she?

Yes. Yes, yes, yes. I love that. I saw it and I was like, oh, I got to take this. I've been like sharing it with everybody like whatever i'm a transitional lover okay read about me this is gonna break it down yeah and it is so so so so so true especially for him okay i mean you got him nailed

christina you're you say you're non-binary, right? Yeah. I also consider myself a woman because there's no rules. You know what it is? Okay, so my mom watches all our episodes. She's going to be mad that I bring this up, right? He talks about his mom in every episode. I do.

I love my mom. Every lesson, every kind of love, everything that any person could ever go through and then persevere out of it is my mom. My mom has been through some incredible stuff. And when I tell you she is an inspiration and a motivation to me to just share that, like, oh, my God. Like, my mom. I love strong women. Do not come around me weak, okay? Because my mama, I'm put my mama on you. Right. Sorry, my mama. I love you. I love you so much, ma. But can you turn off now, please? So I'm OK in my family being gay. My mom said she knew I was gay when I was in her stomach.

We all joke that I used to be like, eh. And that's how she knew. And I really didn't kick her. It was like, eh. You know? So it's always a family joke. So, I'm cool. They cool. Gay. She said she told my brothers. Got them all prepared for it. My father, prepare.

Gay. Cool. But let me say I want to put on a dress. And they are about to disown me. heard me and i was i so i watched pose i kind of came addicted with pose and then because of that i started watching like legendary because i'm like okay these balls are cool i want to go to a ball you know so it's like out there you know the ball coming up invite me i fly like i just want to go to a dope ball but But I always said like, okay, before I die, I got to do drag one time. And my mom was like, well, make sure I'm dead first. Wow. She did. Like, it's just like, it's crazy how accepting and unaccepting a person could be.

So, you know, so I guess I was trying to think like what mind frame, like, because sometimes I think like, I'm, I always say, he like i know i'm he but it's like do i really know that because in me questioning everything i'm questioning everything and it's like do i know that or i just say that because everybody else is saying that's what i am like you could be gay as long as you still he because the minute you become she it ain't good no more and you know so it's like i'm in that phase so i guess i'm asking in this very long question like you guys talked about is that something that you went through but then you changed it and you was like i'm a woman too so now you don't mess with my question and we just wasted all these minutes. Lord, child, Christina, you messed me up.

No, it's, I mean, I think it's really, I think it's really beautiful to be able to ask yourself those questions. I think it's, for someone on a journey, if you're going to go on a journey, like, and question everything,

like, that's a necessary thing. I feel like it actually should be, unless I should, should be a thing that everyone gets to consider in their growing up experience right we didn't um so a lot of us later in life are going okay wait exactly what you just asked am I just this because everyone has told me in this or is there something else going on and so i think it was in 2020 i had a friend maybe sooner than that i don't remember i had a friend who came out as non-binary and they're like a um hi eli if you're listening to this um i've been talking with them on marco polo for like

three or four years now we have not met in person, but we are online besties. And in this conversations, many conversations leading up to this, and when they told me I was like, actually getting curious about my own experience. And so one day, I took a long day and like just spent the entire day with myself and in this experience I realized what that was for me what the other part of me was because I realized in my experience I had I I felt like I identified with being a woman I fucking left my period it's very strange I was like this is fucking cool like I get to know life. That's the thing that made me gay, right? Because if you bleed for seven days and don't die, I can't fuck with you.

What? No? The medical bills? Uh-uh. No, you bleeding that long, you're supposed to be dead. Okay, I'm good. I'm allergic. I'm going to stay away from the vagina.

Okay, sorry. Continue. I just thought it was fucking awesome. I, like, I had the, you know, exact. Continue. I just thought it was fucking awesome. I had the exact opposite response. And I feel like that was really identifiable to me. However, in a lot of circles of women and girls, I felt like I didn't quite fit in. And there was the factor that I'm bisexual.

So there was that as an aspect of it. But there were so many times in my life that I'm bisexual so there was that as an aspect of it but there were there were so many times in my life that I felt like I had I I was not a man but I was more than just a woman wow there was something else so so I realized like in this day that I spent like by myself I realized that like they is the part of me that can't be defined and there has always been a part of me that's not definable and that is that is non-binary that is the beauty of queerness is this space of like i'm undefinable i'm christina sexual i'm just me like you can't just fucking define me a category because i will defy every category you have because i'm a person and that's what people

are meant to do, specifically queer people, is to just blow shit up and be like, I'm sorry. I'm more than you were taught exists. Okay. That was a really dope answer. Yeah.

We're fucking human, as you said before. You said that. I was like, oh, I love her. I'm fucking human. So don't be over here having all these expectations and shit. Christina, we thank you so much. Well, first, we have to ask you a really fast question. Oh, okay. Really crazy, wacky question.

We were arguing about this before we aired. So what is the proper way. To use a coaster. So. Crystal go to our other camera. So you see this coaster. Right. I say.

That you're supposed to use it this way. Because you put your drink. Because it catches the condensation. Right. Or you flip it over. You flip it over and put it this way yes so settle this for us christina settle it i have i have never in my life ever seen someone put the the like pretty side down okay i'm gonna tell you my mama see See, we talk about my mama. So I remember once with my mom, she told me I had it the wrong way. And she was like, that's what this is made for, it's made to catch the condensation. And I'm like, ma, but it's pretty on the other side, like you can't see it. She's like, you can't see it anyway, a drink is on it. And I was like, all right. That's news. Like when you did that, I was like, wait, what? Yeah. Well, she said this is legit decoration. It's decoration. But when you use it, you're supposed to use it this way because that's what this is made for.

I don't know if it's true. I'm just remembering this conversation we had. I got my first place. That was a gift because that's something my mom would think about. Like, I bet nobody bought you coasters. I'm going to buy you coasters. And she got me some Coca-Cola coasters because I'm a Coca-Cola fanatic. I like the memorabilia. Just a shout out to Coke. If you want to sponsor us or whatever, then cool. And then we can meet Christina in person, okay? So when Coke sponsors us, we're going to meet you in person. Oh, I've got all kinds of Coke stories from when I was little.

Coca-Cola was my grandma's, like, favorite thing. And all the memorabilia is so nostalgic to me. Right. I actually have an original Coca-Cola fountain bottle that's, like, favorite thing. And all the memorabilia is so nostalgic to me. Right. I actually have an original Coca-Cola fountain bottle that still has Coke residue in it that actually contains cocaine. What? No way. Yeah. It's pretty dope.

It's just a little bit of residue from the bottle. Like, most of it has, like, dried up. And it's, like, such a small part. And I'm like, ah, maybe I should sell this before it becomes Z-Bot. I don't know what to do. It's like it's almost gone. Well, thank you. I know. You say use it this way. I'm going to send you a

coaster too though, okay? The coaster I send you, you got to use like this. Okay. I'm going to tell everyone that that's the proper way. That is the proper way. Just because Micah says it is, doesn't mean it is. Bella said it. Okay.

That woman is a goddess. You hear me? My mama is a goddess. And so are you. Thank you. And you, Crystal. And we thank you so much for being on. Sorry that we went over. It was really, really fun. Thank you so much. You know, we're going to invite you back because I still got 4,236 questions

to ask. Anytime. I'm ready. This was super fun. Also, and make sure we're going to make sure people check out your podcast, Bitches, Witches, and Queers. Love it. Okay, cool. And how long have you been doing that? I just wanted to ask that. I meant to ask that earlier. Two years. So this will be the third season. It's starting this fall.

Okay. So when you start your season, come back and we're going to promote you with your new season. Sounds great. I should have a pillow by then. Yeah, you will have a pillow and a coaster. Awesome. And you know what? I'm even going to send you a cup to put on top of the coaster.

You have cups? Yes. And you're like the first person to get it. No one gets it. Okay. But you're going to be number one. Well, it's going to be all over social media. There we go. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Thank you guys for watching.

Hope you got something out of the episode. As I say always, there's help out there for you. Find it. Christina. Find yourself. Before I let you go, sorry, one more question. I've been wanting to ask this too. Right.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's a good question question. I've been wanting to ask this too. Right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's a good question though. I promise. It's a good question, right? Is there, in what state of mind or what would a person be happy and willing to give up in order to start seeking the coaching that you provide? That's an interesting question.

Can you say it one more time? What is a person willing to give up to start seeking? Like, yeah, is there like a mind frame or like a certain part of a healing process that now persons just say, OK, I'm gonna give Christina a call? Or is it something that you can do with somebody from like them on the floor crying? Yes. I love that you ask this question. It's so important. I would say that my clients are ready to work with me when they're capable of taking some But if you're ready and willing to shift things and you have the capability and capacity to move some things around in your life, then. Like it. Perfect. I told you it was a good question. It was worth it. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you guys.

And we'll see you soon.