These Fukken Feelings Podcast© - Episode 207: Interview w/ Christine Handy - Author of Walk Beside Me: A Novel

Episode Date: July 1, 2022

Send us a Text Message.A mother of two, a breast cancer survivor, International speaker, accomplished model, Best selling author, and a Nationally recognized Humanitarian. Christine Handy has seen it all and has overcome all odds. Christine’s motto is: There is always Purpose in Pain, but we have to be willing to share the story. Her life-long passion for writing has finally come full circle with an incredible story to share. Listen in as we get to know Christine, the good, the better, and th...

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It's perfectly okay to feel sad, angry, annoyed, frustrated, scared, and anxious. Having feelings doesn't make you a negative person. It doesn't even make you weak. It makes you human. And we are here to talk through it all. We welcome you to these fucking feelings podcast, a safe space for all who needs it. Grab a drink and take a seat. The session begins now. What is up, guys? We got be more in the building i am christian and we're here with motivational

speaker and arthur which uh i'm a little disappointed that i didn't know ahead of time why i don't know i i don't know how i missed that but but it's a walk beside me. Christine Handy is on with us. And for some reason I missed the fact that you was Arthur. I was so excited about all the other things and not excited because he's a cancer survivor. So I'm not excited about that part, but I meant there was something we have in common. Right. Right. And I know that you worked a little bit in like prison reform and those kind of things. No, no. Yeah. And you're still do it. And we actually we our whole first season was dedicated to prison reform.

So I was so excited by those things. It was like, how did I miss that? She's an author. Well, a lot of different things, but we have so much work to do. We collectively, individually and collectively, right? Definitely. Definitely. But so I guess we're going to get right into it, get right into our conversation. We are live. I should have told you that ahead of time, but we're trying this new system out and it does live recordings. It's on like 30 different platforms, but we will also play the episode on Friday, our normal podcast time. So do we get questions from people since it's live? You know what?

I don't know how to work any of that. This was something new that we're trying and it's like our first day. Yeah. Okay. I like to be the guinea pig. That's good. Right. And I was like, you know what?

We're going to try this out together. But let's go first and talk about your book because I need to be educated on that. So I've had a lot of health trials. I had a lot of feelings about all of this and I decided to put it in a book. When I was going through breast cancer, I was gifted a lot of different books, mostly self-help books, faith-based books,

which were very helpful. I don't want to negate any of those things, but there wasn't a book about somebody walking through cancer, like a fictional depiction of life during that process. And I thought, well, this is an empty space that somebody needs to write about it because people don't want to just look at, or just be positive or just have a better attitude or just, and I'm like, really? Because until I was diagnosed with cancer, that doesn't make sense. So I wrote the book and it's been well-received and it's really my journey. It actually, breast cancer doesn't even start until page 200. I had some major health issues before breast cancer.

So it was like one thing led to another, which led to another. And so by the time you get to breast cancer, most people are like, holy shit. Like not going for anything else. And the beautiful part about my book is that a lot of people that read it who are going through cancer treatment, when they read it, they go, oh, well, if she can get through all of that, I can get through this. Right. Right? So it's a very hopeful story. Okay.

And you know what? I had a question and it just slipped my mind like that quick. It happens to me. So you know about me, I'm scattered brain. So this is probably going to be the most scattered podcast you know about me, I'm scattered brain. So this is probably, this probably is going to be the most scattered podcast you ever been on. I doubt it. There's some pretty crazy ones out there, right?

You know, sharing stories is such a privilege because like, let's take social media as an example. And get me started on the highlight reel. Just get me started. Like I can already feel my blood pressure going up, right? Yes. If we're just watching people's highlight reels and the filters and all of these things that exist in our life, then we're negating our self-esteem every day. People are feeling bad. They're getting lonelier because they look at everybody's life and go, well, she's on this trip and she's off to Europe for the summer. And she has all this and she has all these people. And it's like, it's such a lie. And it makes me

crazy because most, well, recently I've been called the honest Instagrammer because I just put it out there. And I mean, it's not flattering. Don't get me wrong. It's not very flattering about me, but if we don't put stuff out there that's not a highlight reel, we're not helping anybody. Storytelling, the good, the bad, and the ugly is a privilege to do

in order so that other people don't feel alone. Right? You're right. Actually, I got to the point where i actually don't even really get on social media which is bad because we do a podcast and it's like you need to advertise but right you know it's like you know i agree everything that i see up there is so ridiculous yes you know and if it isn't uh really really you know crazy but really baton bags and you know nakedness and i'm so tired of seeing dick prints

i'm just saying like it's it's so look at her face right because it's like everybody and it's like oh my god why are we doing that now yeah but um so i kind of left social media alone and i realized the other day like my mom was talking to a family member and they're like is christian okay because he doesn't post anything anymore. And I was like, I guess I need to get back out there because people are starting to think that I died. Maybe they think you're healthy, right? Right. That's how we should look at it. That's how we should look at it. Yeah. Very, very good point. I have to be on social media, right? Because I mean, I get paid to post post pictures and so and for that i'm very grateful i mean we all need to make an income but i do it in a way that

is very authentic like i don't take clients that i don't believe in and i don't do booty shots and i don't dance like a tiktoker to get more follows or reviews views. Yeah, exactly. I mean, we do have to put a picture there, right? So people can see the bottom. But even one day I put a picture there that was just a light blue color, nothing else. And I put underneath, I said, this is what counts. What is red underneath the picture? The picture doesn't count.

It's what is underneath the picture. And I got like the fewest likes on that picture but i don't care right teach people i'm trying to lead and inspire people if they don't like my picture i don't care right definitely okay let's look look at that and i like that too i was just thinking about i'm like yo that's pretty there's something weird that i would do you know just going like a crazy picture like my manager was like she texted me that day she was like what you doing and i'm like i'm tired of people just looking at the picture and not believing what's underneath it's what's underneath that matters yeah you know i think that's what people forget about in life in general you know

no one wants to read captions anymore everything is about what it looks physically and the appearance and how good it looks and and it's like oh disgusting like it's and i don't see how it's not exhausting because like i can't like all the stuff that people go through to make pictures look like you know something or whatever yeah it's exhausting i don't have that type of time. So you're going to get it how it, how I want to give it to you. I'm not going to fix this up. Nope. Because the, in real life, when you see me, I don't want you to think that I'm a catfish. Here's the thing about self-esteem, right? And self-care. We don't have to change to be something different. That's not what we're called to do. If we have a solid self-esteem, we don't need to do those things. We don't need filters because we feel good about

ourselves exactly the way we are. It's the people that don't feel good about themselves. And they're so worried about society and so worried about judgment and other people that have to, they are dependent on society's accolades. I'm not dependent on society's accolades. My measure is God. And my measure is if I'm good with me and I'm good with God, I'm good. Right. That's it. Yep.

For me, everybody's different. Some people's measure is how many bags do I have? Some people's measure is how many likes do I have? That sort of life is, it's depleting. Yeah. You're never going to be satisfied.

Nope. Somebody is always going to be younger. You're never going to be satisfied. Nope. Somebody's always going to be younger. Somebody's always going to be prettier. Somebody's always going to be wealthier. Somebody's always going to be smarter. If you play a judgment and comparison game, you will never win. Now, how long did it take you to start thinking that way, to start living in that perspective? Is that something you've always felt or is it new?

No, no. I had no self service team until 40. But I grew up in the modeling world. I was a model starting at the age of 11. And so I modeled my whole life. I'm still modeling. I just walked in New York Fashion Week for four brands. But I'm modeling differently now.

I'm modeling with, I had breast cancer. I lost my chest. I'm modeling with a concave chest. So now I'm modeling with a concave chest. So now, now I'm modeling with a purpose. I'm like determined to help women who lost their chest to know and to believe that their beauty is not any different. Right. Definitely. And so, and so I, so anyway, but for 40 years prior to my cancer diagnosis, I was totally, I had so many false idols. You can't even believe it. Materialism was one of them. She almost spit out her food.

False idols, I owned all of them. Materialism was one of them. I mean, if I didn't get the next great modeling job, I was disgusted with myself. You can't imagine the tapes that were going on in my head. Oh, no. It was ridiculous. And I was 100% dependent on transaction, right? If you do this for me, I'll do this for you. I just thought that's how the world worked. Turns out, it shouldn't work like that at all. Yeah, no. And so when I got, well, when I was faced with, a doctor said to me, this is your chance of survival. And I was 41 years old. And I when I got, well, when I was faced with a doctor said to me, this is your chance of survival. And I was 41 years old and I'm looking at my kids going, oh my God, like, this is the greatest privilege is to be your mother. And somebody's going to take that away from me. I'm going to like go to my grave at 41. None of this matter, not the modeling jobs,

not the bags, not the materialism, not society. Where was society when I was diagnosed with cancer? They weren't holding me up. They weren't next to me. Where was society when I was diagnosed with cancer? They weren't holding me up. They weren't sitting next to me in bed, like as I was drowning in sorrow and self-pity. And so I quickly had to decide, like where was the self-esteem? It was lost.

It was totally lost. And so for 15 months of chemotherapy, I was like hugging the bath. I mean, I was either in the bathtub because that was the only place I could eat because I was so sick, or was like hugging the bath. I mean, I was either in the bathtub because that was the only place I could eat because I was so sick or I was hugging the toilet because I was throwing up. All in the bathroom, there was me and there was me with myself and there was God. And I was like, I have to fix this. Nobody's going to save me. And regardless of the outcome,

regardless of whether I live or die, I got to show up for me every day. And so I just started to show some courage for myself and started to stop those. I took those thoughts captive, like that self-criticism. And don't get me wrong. Those tapes were really hard to get rid of. But over the course of time and many, many, many months, I was in chemo for 15 months. It took me 15 months. Wow. It's crazy. And I was looking at myself with no hair.

I mean, my beauty was completely gone. Right. And that was right. That was humbling because I was so dependent on the external value. Definitely. And when all of that gets taken away, you realize what do you have left? You have yourself and you have things. Right.

And so then I developed this heart to help other people. Right. Which is why I went to the prison systems, which is how I started speaking in the prison systems. Because it didn't matter what part of society needed inspiration. Right. I wasn't just some PR people. When I first wrote my book and I first started to speak, they would say to me,

you have to focus on breast cancer patients. And I was like, why? Yeah. Like my story is universal. My story, my story is building a self-esteem and self-awareness and self-love like, and stopping those tapes of self-criticism.

And so I was like, why can't i do that in other places with other demographics and she said well because you need to be doing this is i'm a pr person this is what we do and i said i'm out don't put me in the box i'm not gonna i don't fit in anybody's box anymore right anyway all right i could go on forever no no no no look everything you said i was like, preach, preach. Because I went through the same thing. You know, I went, I was completely bald. I used to tell people I was like as white as powder.

Remember the movie Powder? I was so pale. And then I was like 99 pounds. So I was just the head. Yes. You know. I was 92. Right.

Horrible. I mean, my friends, I kind of found a lot of humor in cancer because I was so humorous. Other people were too. But they used to be like, you need to walk around with a tripod because you're going to fall over with that big head. And I'm like,

yeah, no pity because I had cancer. You know, isn't that rude? I mean, yes. I think people don't know what to say. Right, right, right, right, right, right. No, they don't. But you know what? Maybe that would be true of me as well.

But I think a really good thing to say to people who are diagnosed with cancer or any illnesses, say that. I don't know what to say. But I do know that I want to help you. Help me help you. Like, that's such an easy thing to say. Yeah, right. and it's it's crazy but you do you know you do start to because i say the same thing about like my after cancer i became very honest you know exactly before cancer you know someone oh does this look good it's like

yeah girl that looks great you know now i was like hell hell no. Take that off. It was just... Then just more honest about myself too, but it was for the same reason. I can only rely on myself because it comes to a point where you find yourself consoling other people about your cancer. I have to convince you now

that I'm not going, oh, don't worry about it. I'm not going to die. It's supposed to be all the way around. I'm supposed to be crying on your shoulder. How old were you when you were diagnosed with cancer? I was 25. That's tough.

Yeah. It was pretty, pretty horrible. That's heavy. Yeah, it was a unique thing. I went through three years of chemo, two bone marrow transplants, I had leukemia. So it was just a very, very unique experience. But when I came out on the other side, it was like, I survived cancer. I'm not lying to another person because no one is badder than cancer.

You just weren't playing society's game anymore. Right. I mean, you just don't. You just don't. And people will ask me all the time, and I'm sure you, like, where do you get this self-confidence? I'm like, man, just don't care. I don't care what people think of me.

I'm not here to please anybody. I'm not here to please anybody. I'm just trying to help. I'm trying to give people help. Right, definitely. And, you know, and by living your authentic self, you help people be their authentic self. By speaking truth, right? Like, Hey, I'm not saying, okay, look at all the people that showed up for me during chemotherapy and painting this one side of the picture, right? Which is a beautiful

side of the picture. But the other side is how many nights did i you know not wasn't sure i was going to wake up the next morning right many too many to count and so if you just paint one picture which which is what i'm i think i'm talking about with social media and the highlight reel if you just paint one side of this you're messing with people it's unfair it's not clear and young people especially they're like hey this is this is how they live yeah it's not clear. And young people, especially, they're like, wait, this is how they live? It's not. It's not. Right. Definitely. And I always tell people that, too. I'm like, during cancer, I started to take value in things I didn't have.

For the first time in my life, I was happy I didn't have something. You know, I wasn't nauseous anymore. I don't have a headache. My body doesn't hurt, you know, and it's like, these are the things I'm finding comfort in. Right. And it's like, I don't need it. You know, I started to realize I didn't need that other stuff. I just needed to be healthy. Right.

You know, I don't need, I need my body trying to kill me, essentially. You know, it was like, I'm trying to murder myself. Right. I don't need anything else but for my body to decide that we're going to love me enough to get rid of this cancer and live a good life. Showing courage every single day for yourself, it has a multiplier effect because then it shows courage for other people and then they can carry that as well. I find that courage is one of the hardest things to muster. There's tons of days where I feel like I have no courage, but on the days that I show courage, I can see it permeating in my community of people on social media, everywhere I

go. And when I lose that courage, I think to myself, I kind of cower a little bit in life. Like, oh, I'm just going to go retreat because I got to like muster enough courage. When in reality, we should be like, guys, i need a courage net i need some help i need you to encourage me and i think so often in society that's looked down upon because you know we all have pride and ego and we don't want to ask for help yeah and i think that's a that's a self-esteem issue. Definitely. Like pride. Pride and ego. I love talking about pride

and how we understand it. But I think we react in life to every situation out of pride and ego, which is one. Malice, which is like, oh, I'll get you back. Or compassion. And if you walk through your days and you look at how you

respond to emails, how you respond to people, how you respond on social media, how you respond to when you're at work and you just remind yourself, am I reacting out of compassion, malice, or pride and ego? And by the end of the day, if you keep practicing that, you can fill your day with reacting out of compassion all day long. This lightness, this peace inside of you that permeates not just to you but other people are watching and they're like, she's got this light about her.

It's just constantly reacting out of compassion. It's even to situations that are difficult. Even if somebody pisses you off or somebody's unkind to you, if you just sit back and go, OK, I'm going to react out of compassion. It's a it's we have control over how we react. Yeah, we always have control over that. It's really weird that you say that.

I had a kind of a situation at work. So one of our one of the housekeepers, she came into my office on Friday and she says, you know, she was in tears and she was leaving. So her mom had Alzheimer's and she was actually going on, you know, FMLA to be able to take care of her mom. So we're talking and she gives me a hug and she leaves. And one of my coworkers comes into the office and she's like, what's that about? Like none of your fucking fucking business i'm sorry and um so so you know i was telling her and she was just like i've worked here four years and never even said hello to the girl but you've been here for a month and know her whole life story right yeah you know and it's like you know it was at that

moment to me that i started to think about like wow some people really think they're better than somebody or some people really see people beneath them you know i'm in this position you know and they do it you know because my co-worker is not a bad person you know she's great yeah you know but for some reason she saw this girl as beneath her. So there was no need for them to even talk. You know, she said she said she never even said hello to the girl. And I say hello to everybody. Like and people like when I'm walking through, like I talk to a lot of the janitors and stuff just because sometimes when there are spills or whatever, or at least I'm like, you know, walk through. Hey, how you doing? Yeah.

You know, that's just what I do. So it's kind of like, yeah, it's kind of like weird that people can walk past people and just like, Oh, there's another human right there, but I'm gonna keep my head down and try not to speak. I know it's, it's crazy. I learned such a valuable lesson in that. And I was just like, wow. Like I know I never want to be that way. Yeah. Okay. So that brings us up to the mission that we're all kind of on, which is to help with recidivism. At least that's what I'm trying to do. You know, we, as a culture, people come out of the prison system and they go right back in because we don't accept them. We don't allow them to be forgiven. Right. Right. We don't. As a society, we don't. We're not helping them. We don't allow them to be forgiven. We don't. As a society, we don't. We're not helping them. We're just putting them right back into the system. And that's what they think of

themselves as well. I'm a convict. I'm going to stay a convict when I get out. I'm going to be a convict, so I'm going to go back. I've had so many conversations with prisoners in jail who've said to me, what's the point in getting out? Cause I'm just going to go back in. And that is so heartbreaking to me. And I say, and I say to the prisoners, I say, you can be, you can be a prisoner in here, or you can be a prisoner out there. It's the same thing regardless. Right. I mean, if you're a prisoner in your own mind, it doesn't matter. And so, and they kind of look at me like, they kind of don't understand it. And I said, well, if you think that you're going to go out

there and either hide in a house because you're afraid of your own behavior, or if you think you're going to go out there and just come back in because you're going to do the same things, that's, sorry, that's my dad um hey dad i'm not an interview no he's not they know that he's got a baby that's so funny anyway i mean the prison system to me is so tragic and there's like i said we need to work on it individually and collectively and until everybody is on board with that regardless regardless of what pr firm is telling them what they should focus on we all have a responsibility in this. Definitely.

Speaking of that, we're also really big. We actually have a friend and he played a big part in our first season and he's been incarcerated now 23 years. Was incarcerated at the age of 15 and he didn't kill anybody. It was a non-homicide conviction. Actually, it was carjacking

is what he did. Him in front of his at 15. 23 years for carjacking. Still in jail. What state? Virginia. Oh my God. They sentenced him to 30 years and 8 months. At age 15.

At age 15. For carjacking. Nothing we can do about that. You gotta call Kim Kardashian. You know what? I've been trying. I send her messages. For carjacking. Nothing we can do about that. You got to call Kim Kardashian. She'll work on it. You know what? I've been trying. I send her messages. I'm not kidding.

No, and I'm serious, too. I have sent her messages. I send her, like, posts. Like, if you're listening to this, reach out to her. We're talking about Jahan Dahl. Yeah. And make 1025053, the state of Virginia. It is very, very horrible.

And, yeah, and it's bad now. I mean, they are changing laws in Virginia. So we're hopeful right now because they're going back down to 65% because they're still like an 85% state. Respecimism rate? No, I'm sorry for the time, how much time they do. They do 85% of their time and there's no parole in Virginia. There's no and then he was denied something recently yeah so he he did just become eligible for parole because he served more than 20 years and they denied him and said the reason they denied him is because he didn't serve

enough enough of his time you know his whole adulthood has been in prison and and now he's finally you know it's for a long time he was just positive and optimistic and and now recently talking to him he's like his spirit is broken i'm sure you know he feels like i'm never yeah he feels like i'm never getting out like i'm never getting out and and it's, you know, it's like I don't know what to do sometimes. It's like, yeah, that's on us. That's on society. It is. It is.

It really is. It's very, very horrible. And I'm like, I don't I don't I don't understand how we give people that much power. He committed a crime. Yes, he should pay for it. Yes, there was a victim. No one knows what that victim went through. But that victim, you know, I'm pretty sure they went through pain and being traumatized and went through a lot of things.

We would never take that away. Right. You know, we will respect everything that person went through. You know, but, you know, you're alive. You know, you still you still have your life in a way. And it sounded harsh. I didn't mean to sound harsh when I said it. you know, you're alive, you know, you still, you still have your life in a way. And I, and it sounded harsh. I didn't mean to sound that harsh when I said it. Rehabilitating anybody, leaving them there. That's not rehabilitation. It's not, it's not. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's like, um, and I found that recently, like a friend of ours, Christian, um, like apparently i guess got mad about something that on the school bus and like they was throwing rocks at the school bus and that is how they ended up with a felony and now can't even get regular jobs at 13. that's what we're saying because they was throwing fucking rocks like seriously like 13 year old boys do dumb shit like that you know what i mean and i feel like that's some dumb shit

to now be that thing for the rest of your life that's gonna indicate how you work and live and shit like that you know what i mean so then now you have people like that in even some of those same situations that are like, okay, well, fuck, I'm never going to handle jobs, so now I'm going to post a deal. So then they are left with only select options. You know? And

sometimes things are easier than others, you know? And it just fucking puts you back in this whole cycle of here we go, about to get another in trouble again or whatever and it's stupid. That's not rehabilitation either, yeah. Yeah, and it's kind of like you said, you know, most people come out

and think they have no other option, so I might as well do what I'm going to do until I go back to prison. Exactly. Yeah, that's a society problem. Yeah, I remember speaking to a woman and it was and it's weird. She had just served a 10-year sentence for drugs. Basically, she was part of like, it was like her boyfriend sold drugs, and she was like carrying drugs from her or something.

She had been out two days, did it again, and was going back to prison for another 10 years. 10 years. Yeah, 10 years. She served 10 years and was going back to prison for another 10 years. But her mentality was like, she was home two days. But her mentality was- You ain't even got a good cheeseburger in two days. Look, I'm a G.

This is what I did. I did what I had to do. And that was her mentality and that was better yet how do you come out two days later and you dumb enough to i'm sorry okay sorry let's go back i'm gonna bring it back i'm sorry sorry because sometimes it ain't always society but anyway yeah okay and you're right about that sometimes it's not always society but i still think you ain't realized how not to get caught yet right and i still think but i still think society does a bad job on helping people who don't know how to think for themselves

i mean i've been i speak in prisons i've spent days you know i've never spent the night there but i've spent plenty of time there where the warden doesn't want to let me in. He'll stop me going through security at the prison door and go, you know what? You can't get in. You're buzzing. And I'm like, what? They don't want people to uplift these prisoners. They don't.

And so they're not feeding these people things that are helping their soul. They're not teaching them. I mean, the prisons that I've been in, they have these little rooms that they can go, you know, like faith-based. This is education for the self-starters, the go-getters, and the big dreamers. So if you're looking for a university that believes in your potential as much as you do, this is the school for you. At Strayer University, we've been in the D.C. area for over 130 years. And we're always adapting to students' ever-changing needs in this ever-changing region. So you can keep striving.

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Valid one per day. Excludes one to three dollar menu. Visit McDonald's app for details. and registration required rooms there's no tools in there there's no bibles there's no books and so and so all there's like a prayer closet it's like a prayer closet but they're just feeding right they're feeding them what they want them to be fed right yeah which is negativity animosity unforgiveness that's what they want them to be fed, right? Which is negativity, animosity, unforgiveness. That's what they're feeding them. So what do we- You think of everything, the concrete walls, the stainless steel benches, the trays, the plastic trays, plastic forks, slop, everything you see looks like slop, that now you're starting to make slop yourself.

Yeah, exactly. So you get out and you have no resources. Right. And then, you know what, I can't even imagine COVID, going through COVID while in prison. Right. You know, our friend actually, he ended up getting COVID and they just, you know, they put him all in the gym. Did he get it twice? Why he was in there?. Did he get it twice or something too? Did he get it twice while he was in there? Didn't he get it twice? He did get it twice.

So that was thinking. Anyway, not that that was important. However, what is important is that I need to go over here real quick. I'm going to let you guys continue and I'll be right back. I'm sorry. I got to do it. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry.

I'm important. We got to excuse me more. So how did you get? We got to excuse me more. So how did you keep her? We're going to keep her, though. Yeah, we do. We definitely go keep her. How did you get into doing prison work? Well, I became a motivational speaker, like I said, and I just took every opportunity I could because I wanted to get my story out there.

I wanted to inspire people. It didn't matter who it was. And somebody said to me, you know, we have this position in the state of Florida and you can go speak in these male prisons. And I thought, how can I inspire male prisoners? Right. I thought at least they were going to send me to female prisons. And, you know, I, I, I found that I could really inspire male prisoners. And so I've always just worked in male prisons, never female. And so that's how I got started because I said yes. That's awesome.

And I feel like it's because you're a female that you excel in male prisons. They're around males 24-7, you know? Well, that's true. But I mean, and in fact, when I was speaking, I don't know, a couple years ago in one of the prisons, the warden came out because I was hugging everybody. There was like a line of 500 inmates who were lining up to talk to me or whatever. And I just was hugging every one of them. And the warden came out.

He was like, you can't do that. Like they could have a cleave and they could hurt you. And you're not allowed to. You can't have any physical contact with them. And he left. He went back into his office and I't have any physical contact with them. And I, he, he left, he went back into his office and I hugged every single one of them. Right. Every single one of them. They need, I mean, we need physical touch. Like chemotherapy, my oncologist said now more than ever, you need to be touched. Like have somebody rub your arm, have somebody rub your

back, have somebody hold your hand because all the negative atrocities that are happening to your body, you have to counteract that with, you know, soft touch. And, and, but you know what people in prisons are not getting that. Right. They're not getting to massage therapists that are not going in there. Definitely. And like you said, sometimes I know me, a hug makes a difference. Yeah. Especially when you're hurting, like you've been through treatment when you're hurting and you're suffering and you're scared and you know, physical touch is so critical. That's why so many people have really suffered more than we should have suffered during the

pandemic because we had no physical outlets. Yeah. And I feel like that's where a lot more depression and anxiety and those kinds of things came from. But I also feel like people lost people skills. Yeah, people, you know what? Fear translates into anger. Right, definitely. We saw that everywhere. And it is wild.

What made you decide to get into motivational speaking? Well, I had this platform as I had a book and in order to get my book out and to be, you know, more audible about my story, because I really, I mean, the whole point of writing the book was to have a voice and to try to help and give people hope. Right. And so the next step was kind of to speak. And I've been in front of a camera my whole life as a model. And so it was very natural. And, and so I just started, you know, work as a speaker and made my own speeches and ultimately signed with some speaking agents. And then they kind of set me off and I've done a lot of speeches. And then during COVID, I did a lot of online speeches and I did a lot of stuff on Clubhouse and I get interviewed a lot. And so it kind of it's been helpful to get my story out there. Right. Definitely. Now with modeling, was that something you always wanted to get into or is it kind of just fell into it? No, I always wanted to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Always.

And I and now I'm doing it with such a purpose. It's turned into something so much more significant. I know. I know. And that's why I was reading. I saw that you said your motto is there's always purpose in pain. Yeah. And I feel like you did that. You turned your pain into a purpose and you're making something where people wouldn't normally consider it beautiful. Beautiful.

Right. Exactly. Well, I mean, I get the messages from all the people and hundreds and thousands of women on social media who say to me, you are so you're strong in what this looks like. And I just said, well, this is who I am. This is what I look like. It may not be my first choice. This is what I look like. And so why would I not be proud of this? And so that's kind of, you know, changing how they think of it because they think maybe they're less than or disfigured. I don't feel disfigured. I feel like I'm whole. Right. Definitely. And that's a big part of it, too. Like you said, feeling disfigured. Because, you know, that's how people see you, too. You know, people. I don't care how people see me. I know. And that's awesome. Really, really. Yes. I have water again. I know we have a co-worker who who's missing a leg, you know, and he he's so depressed about it, you know, and it's because and that was one of the things, you know, it's like people see him not as whole, you know know and it's like he's so bad about it now that you know he he's angry you know you can't hold the door open for him or you can't hand him

a nap i got it you know i could do it myself and it's like i i would have did this for anybody like yeah yeah you know but it's like he's so angry about it now. It is that it is. And, you know, every day, you know, it was like, I try to, you know, to, to do things to make him feel more comfortable, you know, because it's like a lot, you know, people aren't doing things. Like sometimes like, I don't even see the leg or, I mean, of course, it's not there, but I don't see the lack of the leg. Exactly. You're so evolved.

I don't see the leg. Okay. I can't even touch that. Christian, you have a lot of compassion in your heart. Yes. Be more original. I'm And that's a beautiful thing.

Be more, I don't know. I'm not sure yet. I'm just kidding. Be more is a unique character, okay? It's funny because, like, I work in healthcare. I'm sorry. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. So I work in healthcare and, you know, it's funny because sometimes like when I'm not up here, it is so hard to still be compassionate and nice and stuff. And I just be like, I don't, oh man, somebody else got to come in here and handle this. Cause I just, I don't think I got it in me today, you know? And you know, because it could be like a screaming patient that you're like suck it the fuck up like you have a cut like it's a cut it ain't broke chill out you know what i mean and they be so you know like just extra for no reason and at those times I just all my my patience and stuff I mean I'm still is there's no there's no need to try to cover it up or fix it now girl no you have to be who you

are that's that's for one yeah we get it you are a horrible individual we understand absolutely no because we don't judge we don't judge however I do struggle with that whole people need things for me i just don't be having it for them some days you know and then other days it's like i'm the most compassionate fucking person in the world you want some extra blankets i can do that for you you want two you want an extra one or you just want to you know it's easy to give other people's stuff away though okay so you're in the position you're in the job that you really, really want. Look, she likes the work. She just doesn't like the people.

Oh, I'm sure she likes the work. She seems like she does. No, and it's crazy because like, I never thought that I would like it this much. Because like, I went from a um x-ray technologist to now I am in interventional radiology so which is a whole different spectrum in a whole different like world of vast foolishness that you know any day could be you know different which I like that but at the same time like it's more kind of stressful and stuff like that to where and i'm learning all this on the job like no sit down in the classroom right

teach you this no it's this doctor won't this and then this doctor may want it like this but then like you know and it's like holy okay what do you have to do now you know so you come into those yeah and so it's like, I'm trying to, I'm just trying to be the best compassionate person I can be, but good gosh almighty. It be tough sometimes. No, it is very hard. Yeah. How we react is challenging. You know what? I think I have a different mindset because I witnessed different levels of pain during cancer. you know i know

that a person who has never been hurt before a paper cut would kill them right you know because that's the worst pain they know so it equals my four years of chemotherapy however it sounds like some but yes it does i know like i know yeah yeah that's why we can never compare pain right exactly never compare pain because you don't know what people are coming in with right ever know what they've been through to lead up to that you know never and yeah i remember the worst thing somebody probably said to me one time was like, um, when I, after I had my daughter and I was starting next grade school and I couldn't do both. It was just, I knew it was too much, but then someone said to me, well, it's a lot of moms out here with babies that, you know, working and going to school. They were judging you. Right. And I'm like,

don't judge me. Don't judge me. Right. Like, don't compare me to all of these other people out here because I'm sure a person you are lacking somewhere as well, you know? So yeah, it was, it was nuts. Here's the thing. Just use Christian and I as an example. You would never know that we went through chemotherapy. You would never know the depth of our despair. You would never know that a doctor said to me, this is your percentile chance of survival. Right. And so we interact with people all day long.

You don't know what's inside of them. You don't know what's been told to them. So how can we ever expect to judge or compare our lives to anybody? We can't. And if we see it that way, we never will judge because we don't. You know what? Sometimes I'm a little bit of be more and a little bit of me. Sure. Because I have this truck driver, but I talk myself out of it. I have this truck driver, and he will cry over the littlest thing. I manage trucks. It's what I do. First of all, he must

when he does his pre-check every day look at things through a magnifying glass. The stuff that he catches is incredible. Then I get a phone call at 4 o'clock in the morning. I can't take this load because the light bulb above the license plate is out. He's thorough. He's thorough.

Yeah. But you don't mean my first reaction is to get upset. Like, are you calling me with this bullshit? But you stop yourself before you react. I do. And then I think about the fact that he's two million miles accident free. He's had his license for 30 years. You know, he's never had a violation. Yeah, he's never had a violation for CSA points. But, you know, it was like, I have to catch myself sometimes before I think about that. Because it's like, it's four o'clock in the morning. I'm trying to sleep and we don't know if he had a father or a mother that was like that light i can't believe you put that i mean we don't know yeah so how can we something could have happened to where it was missed 100 you know and 100 that's definitely we are a product of our

of our childhood right right definitely where in his life, somebody said something that really affected him and now he's never going to make a mistake, right? Yeah. That's all he knows. Exactly. And it's like some people even with dealing with them at work, I'm like you are going to fucking get on my nerves, but it's like

that's all they know. That's just them. That's just them. You're going to be like, Christine, that's all they know. That's all they know. That's just them. That's just them. That's how they are. You're going to be like, Christine, that's all she knows. She's in my head. Right. Have you guys seen the series on Hulu, Candy?

No. Or heard about it? Yes. Did you watch the whole thing? I did. I've never seen it. Okay. So it's based on a true story.

And I really don't know the parts of the true story. But basically but it's actually it's so it's based on a true story and i i really don't know the parts of the true story but basically it's like a murder thing i guess i'm gonna tell you because there's a point but look i'm gonna tell you because there's a point but i hope i don't ruin it for you i'm not gonna watch it go ahead okay cool so at the um at the end when she's in trial you know her defense was that the woman she killed shushed her. And it reminded her of a time that her mother had did it and it made her snap. It triggered her. Right.

Which is now an acceptable term. Everything is a trigger these days. Well, we're probably going to have to start, stop using trigger soon. If there are many more like school shootings, but that's a whole nother story. And it will we can't even touch that oh i i know i know you would bring it up again but it was just you know it was just a good point that's a good point it is

a good point but it was her mom's sister so when when the woman's sister she chopped her up like 44 times with like an axe like with it yeah she yeah an axe yep yeah and it was crazy because like do you remember like when her husband went out there to the um thing and i think he was trying to see if she could do it and like he couldn't even do it so like swing the axe yeah yeah but it was you know the thing that got me is that it was based on a true story yeah that's the problem yeah life is fiction for sure you know yeah and it was like wow you know but us speaking this conversation it was like you know defense you know that her mom sister yeah when you know the woman betty sister you know made her snap and it's like yo we are

you know it goes deeper than that you know i think about molestation you know, made her snap. And it's like, yo, we are, you know, it goes deeper than that. And, you know, I think about molestation, you know, where when you're younger, it's like what goes on in the house stays in the house. So we don't talk family business and, you know, we don't discuss that outside of here. And now people walking around with all this pain and this struggle and this trauma from, you know, their uncle and brothers and, you know, cousins molesting them and touching them. And, you know, it's, they were so, you know, we're products of our environment, you know, it's, it's, you know, don't, don't talk about it. Don't say anything about it. And they're kind of like stuck in that. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. This is uplifting. Oh, my God. Yeah, no, I am thoroughly enjoying this conversation. This is great.

Right. So, motivational speaker, let's talk about the services that you offer. So, what does Christine do for us? Okay. Well, good question. Now I'm a little bit thrown. No. I help women and some men. I mean, I help them with their self-esteem. I help them to get away from being dependent on a society as a whole. I try to teach them what self-worth and self-care looks like. I try to use my story as a measure of hope for other people because you don't go through the kind of trauma I go through and then somebody gets a splinter and they look at my story and they're like, oh, I can handle the splinter. And that's one of the beauties of storytelling because if we're out there sharing our stories that honestly one of the measures is where people go oh well i don't have it so bad right and that's okay yeah right

that's actually helpful and so or you know the other side of that is oh my gosh this is worse than that i need to ask for help yeah right right and so but if nobody's telling stories if we're all just putting out the highlight reel and everybody everybody's like, oh my God, how long am I paying? Nobody can understand this. I have to take my life. I have to shut down. I have to get on medication. Whatever it is.

I mean, there's side effects. But if we're out there like you all, you're doing this, and we're out there telling our stories and saying, hey, you're not alone. And people aren't alone. Isn't that what we're trying to do we're trying to build a community we're not trying we're not trying to build isolated people right we want to we want to bring everybody together and it does it does um offer comfort when you know that you are not the only person that thinks that way or has you know had to do something crazy because you know that you are not the only person that thinks that way or has you know had to do something crazy because you know or whatever you know yeah you're not alone in the world and that's kind of like yeah what people need to as well thank god thank god yeah and like you said even

when you are when you do feel that way you need to start seeking help and and and asking for help and yeah you know but i feel like this conversation is good, you need to start seeking help and asking for help. And, you know, but I feel like this conversation is good because we need to have tough conversations. It's like you said, it's so much foolishness and craziness and prettiness and the high life, you know, that's what everybody wants, but no one wants to have these tough conversations and discuss the fact that like people in this world are messed up. They're hurting. Yes. They're hurting. And it's, you know, and the way they're handling that pain is unacceptable. You know, the things that people are doing to each other is unacceptable. And to themselves. Right. And right. Definitely to themselves, you know, and like you said,

it comes, it comes from lack of self in a way, You know, it's like we talk about self-esteem. We talk about self-love. The key word in that is self. Exactly. You know, it's we need to work on us. You know, I've always believed that my mom always told me you can love somebody until you love yourself. You know, true. Yeah. And, you know, I was one of those people who went through a lot of horrible things in life. You know, I went through a lot of molestation and craziness. And, you know, and it's, you know, the thing that I hate now that I always get from people is, you know, I'm a gay male. And they always tell me that I'm gay because I was sexually molested. No judgment.

Yes. I'm happy as a gay man. You know, this is who I am. This is my my reality. So I can't get something positive out of that trauma. Yeah. You know, I'm happy in this life. It's not a trauma. You know, I'm not facing trauma being gay. No, but you're actually using your story to help other people.

Right. And being molested was, you know, it's a negative thing. And I'm not going to, you know, you don't want to associate your being with that negative. Right. And, you know, I hate that people think that way, you know, but that's also why it's important to make sure you keep the right people around you. Right. You know, because you can't keep, you know, people around you that when you try to tell them, you know, how you're feeling about something that they are then dismissive or,

you know, trying to one up you on their situation kind of, you know, kind of thing. And so, yeah, because that, you know, that's just gonna make you feel worse about yourself sometimes. And so, yeah, you got to keep the right people around you and know who to talk to. But also filter, filter, filter what you watch, what you listen to, what you read, what you believe. Because like you said, society, you know, I just remember overhearing two people have a conversation and the woman was telling another woman about her grandson who was gay. And, you know, and that was her question,

was he touched as a youngster? You know, and it's like, yeah, it doesn't correlate. It doesn't make I think that's changing, though. I think that that was a perception, and people are... I think that's changing. I hope. Right. Definitely. And I think perceptions, a lot of things are changing. I think so. More people are speaking up about sexual assaults.

More people are speaking up about depressions and anxiety and going to get help, especially for people of color, because help especially for people of color you know because you know a lot of people of color grew up with you know that's white people's stuff we don't do that yeah you know and and now it's like no you know that's human beings everybody's stuff right everybody suffers from depression and anxiety and and you know i was telling a story earlier where you know i just started antidepressants yeah you know, I was telling a story earlier where, you know, I just started antidepressants.

Yeah. You know, because for a long time, I didn't know I was depressed because I didn't feel depressed. I wasn't sad in my life, you know, but I wanted to be left alone. I wanted to be comfortable in my life the way it was, you know, because I felt like I don't have drama. But everybody else has drama. And when I let them in, now I have drama. Right. You know, because I felt like I don't have drama, but everybody else has drama. And when I let them in now, I have drama, you know? So but I was using this as an excuse to become a loner and not go out and not do things. And so one day I just realized, like, I'm not living life.

Yeah. And I should because I thought it's so hard to live, to live. Yeah. You know, but so I said, OK, what fought so hard to live. To live, yeah. You know? And so I said, okay, what I'm going to try. I did therapy for years. It didn't change it. So, you know, recently the doctor was like, I want to try antidepressants. And I was one of those people like, no, I never want to take medicine. I don't want drugs to control how I feel. But here it is two weeks into it and I'm like, wow, I feel amazing.

And let's go out and let's clean and let's see. You know, it's like, yeah, that's self-care. I mean, listen, the people sometimes need medication and that's self-care. Look at we need therapy. Yep. To save our life. I mean, would you not take chemotherapy? Because I'm just saying, like, it's right. Definitely. And I think it's just the stigmas, you know, some people hear so many horror stories about medicine and yes. Are there doctors that just

prescribe medicine because they want to get you out their office and they really don't care. And you're just another bill to them. Yes. Yeah. You know, but that's why I always believe in doing the work, doing the footwork, doing the research. Yeah. You know, it's okay to switch doctors. You don't have to stay with the same doctor your whole life. You don't necessarily have to be on medication for the rest of your life. Things

could simmer down in your life. Then you just kind of like, you know what? The need isn't as great as it used to be. Hopefully. Hopefully. That's the goal. Right. That's the goal. Now, what advice would you give our listeners? I know we just said a whole bunch of things, but you know, we're going to put it back on you. I felt like we took over for a little

while. I love it. I love it. I mean, I don't have any advice on medicine. I'm not a doctor. I don't know how you feel. But if you don't feel good, I would keep searching ways to feel better. And I also don't think that, you know, a quick fix is always a good idea. I'm not talking about your situation at all. But I think a lot of people and somebody in my family specifically will turn to drugs because I'm not talking about that drug i'm talking about like street drugs right right because it was like quick fix i want to feel better i want to feel better i want to feel better that doesn't ever that doesn't sustain you yeah i mean you can try it's like oh i'm gonna go get this bag and then you have the bag you open the box you take the bag out it's old now i gotta go get this

new jacket you take the jacket out of the bag it's old now so you can never sustain yourself by those quick fixes they don't help you have to build your foundation on something more material like for me i build it on god's here then i'm here then my children you know i mean it's like right you have to have a like a level like a future and if you put society here yeah then you here or you put friends and family above you and their opinion matters more to you right out of order there's always going to be chaos in your life talk about drama you're dependent on other people's opinions of you, you're never going to feel peace in your life. Never. So fix your levels.

Whatever you want them to be, fix them. I mean, literally look at them and say, this is what's first. This is what's second. This is what's third. And then live your life according to that. Right. Then you have peace. And if it's society at the top and your life is chaos, then I give you peace.

You might think, okay, well, I put society at the top. I'm going to live in this chaos and it's society at the top and your life is chaos, I give you a piece. You might think, okay, well, I put society at the top. I'm going to live in this chaos and it's my piece. Fine. Do you. But I don't want to live like that. Right. Definitely. So just pretty funny story.

My mom, my cousin's here visiting from New York and we decided last night we were going to go out. So we went to, look, it's gay pride. I've been doing, I've been doing a lot of gay things this, this year. I said, you know what, I'm gonna go out here with my community and celebrate things. I went to my first ever ball last night. And, um, but you know, it's like, it was called, it was like red carpet realness. So my cousin wore like a real nice dress, but she asked my mom, you know, Titi, you got a purse I can use? So mom was like, yeah, I got the perfect purse. So she goes and she gets this bag and she pulls it out and they open it up and they pull the purse out the bag

and it falls apart. Wow. She has had that purse for like 30 years. Never used it. And never used it. Yeah. And never used it. And never used it. And it's so funny. So when you was like, and you opened the bag and it's like, oh, and I'm like, were you here when that happened? I literally just witnessed that yesterday, you know.

And then I laughed because my mom was like, no, but don't throw it out because we can glue it. And I'm like, no, that's what's wrong with us. We always trying to glue things. Sometimes you gotta let it go. out because we can glue it. And I'm like, no, that's what's wrong with us. We're always trying to glue things. Sometimes you got to let it go. Don't try to fix it. Just let that shit go. Yeah, you always try to glue things.

You know, it's like, it's always a quick fix. Right. That's my point. You're right. That is my point. Right. And that's why I brought it up because I was like, exactly what you're saying.

It's like, no, let's get rid of the glue. Let's get rid of the duct tape. Exactly. You know, let's not use Gorilla Glue to do your hair no more. Oh, man. You know, I don't know if you guys saw that, but OK. I did. I did.

Yes, but definitely so cool. Well, we were so glad that you came on. I'm so happy to meet you both. Yes, we're very, very happy to meet you. We will stay in touch if you allow us to. Yes, definitely, definitely. And then anything new you got going on? Oh, my gosh.

What do I have going on? I start class tomorrow. Oh, yeah. I did see Harvard, right? I know. I saw that too, yes. Yeah, I am getting... It's safe to come in.

I'm getting my master's degree at Harvard. I know, that's exciting. It's taken me a few years. I mean, no, it should. I mean, it's a four-year program. So I start class tomorrow, which I'm, yeah, I've got a lot going on, but it's good stuff. Yes, definitely. That's exciting good good luck to you and good luck with that yeah congratulations all right guys so nice to chat with you thank you so much for the interview i really hope you can keep in touch and yeah yeah definitely definitely definitely and um we thank you guys so much for watching and we will uh see you guys next time

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