These Fukken Feelings Podcast© - From Desires to Dilemmas: Delving into Sexual Integrity with Dr. Steven Davidson | Season 2.5 Ep. 119

Episode Date: August 16, 2023

Send us a Text Message.The realms of intimacy, trust, and sexual energy are multifaceted and intricate. This week, hosts Micah and Rebecca journey into the heart of these subjects with the guidance of Dr. Steven Davidson, the acclaimed Sexual Integrity Coach®. With a deep understanding of human desires and a compassionate approach to our most profound feelings, Dr. Stevenson opens up about the intricacies of sexual integrity.In this enlightening episode:Understanding Sexual Integrity: Dr. Dav...

you don't have to be positive all the time it's perfectly okay to feel sad angry annoyed frustrated scared and anxious having feelings doesn't make you a negative person it doesn't even make you weak it makes you human and we are here to talk through it all we welcome you to these fucking feelings podcast a safe space for all who needs it grab a drink and take a seat. The session begins now. Hey, everyone. This is Rebecca from These Fucking Feelings Podcast. This is my guy, Micah. And we have a guest co-host with us this evening. She is Carissa. Hello.

And with us today, we have Dr. Steven Davidson. Hello. Hello. And as Micah always says to our guests, no one sells themselves better than themselves. So if you want to go ahead and introduce yourself to our listeners, that'd be great. Hi, I'm Dr. Steven Davidson. I am also known as the Sexual Integrity Coach. That is my registered trademark. And I'm the author of this book, Sexual Integrity, Finding the Courage to Be Yourself. I have been a psychotherapist and clinical sexologist for over 30 years.

And I see clients both in my office or virtually. And I have an office in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. That must be nice. Yeah. The weather. So now, I guess, what is a sex therapist? Well, sex therapy is a specialization within the field of psychotherapy. So not many people know this, but when you get trained to be a psychotherapist, either as a psychologist, a social worker, maybe a professional counselor, marriage and family therapist, you don't get very much training in human sexuality. So sex therapists have additional training beyond just the regular training as a therapist in the science of

sexuality, which is sexology. And for myself, I have a PhD in clinical sexology. So I use the science to help my clients make changes in their life. Now, some sexologists teach in universities. Some might do research, but a clinical sexologist uses it in a psychotherapy format to help their clients, individuals, and couples. That's pretty cool. I didn't even know sex therapy existed, honestly. I didn't even know what sexology was. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. So I'm one of those people. I don't have a lot of sex because of trauma from when I was a child. So it's kind of like, hmm, maybe I fall into a category that might seek some, some help, some help. Yeah. Yeah. Well, many of my clients are trauma survivors, and sometimes they don't even realize that when they come in. It's in the course of doing an evaluation, an assessment,

talking to them about their sexual history, that it's obvious to me that they are a sexual trauma survivor, but the experiences they've had, they might not even think of that as being trauma or being abuse. It might have just been so normalized in their life or it could have been at the hands of someone that they really loved and trusted that they couldn't really imagine that person being abusive. Definitely. Definitely. That makes a lot of sense. Now, do you see people like on a full spectrum from like no sex to like too actively sexual?

Well, I don't know that people are too actively sexual. That's really kind of a judgment. So if someone comes in and they tell me that they are too sexual or they have too much sexual activity, I'm going to want to know what they mean by that and why they're making that judgment. Because, you know, some people can be sexually compulsive and they have consequences to that. But we have different sexual appetites, just like we have different appetites for food. Right. So it really does run, you know, up and down the spectrum of people with a very low libido or some people that we might even throw in that category of being asexual. They just don't really want to engage in sexual activity. Up to people who really enjoy their sexuality a lot and don't want to pass up opportunities for pleasure.

OK, so I guess you don't believe in like sex addictions, do you, or that concept? Well, sex addiction is not an official diagnosis. So we looked to the American Psychiatric Association to establish for us criteria for diagnosing both addictions and also sexual disorders. And sex addiction is not listed in either of those categories because the APA has consistently said there's no evidence that someone truly is addicted to sex. So it's a diagnosis that is used for people who may have behaved in ways that are contrary to their values. Maybe they have, you know, some examples are they've cheated on their spouse, or maybe they have a kink or a fetish that they feel shame about. And sometimes those people identify as sex addicts because they're trying

to shut down an aspect of their sexuality. And, you know, in addiction, that's what recovery is about. You no longer indulge in the thing that you have been addicted to. And since we're all hardwired to be sexual beings, you know, that's how we all got here, you know, it's a very normal aspect of life. Right. So those things that we are naturally hardwired biologically have drives to engage in, it's really dangerous to start calling those things addictions. Right. Food addiction is not a real diagnosis either. it's really dangerous to start calling those things addictions. Food addiction is not a real diagnosis either. Now, certainly people have eating disorders, and a lot of people are overweight. They compulsively overeat, but food addiction is not a real diagnosis.

What is considered a sex disorder? I mean, can you expand on that a little bit? I mean, further? Yeah. So some examples of sexual disorders that I treat in men are erectile dysfunction. Okay. That may be, it's not medically caused, but it might be psychological, it might be relational. Inorgasmia, the inability to achieve orgasm for either men or women. Women sometimes have pelvic floor pain. Men can have pelvic floor pain also, but women report it more than men. So those are examples of sexual disorders. Things that are paraphilias, and that's a clinical term. It's probably a term that you're not familiar with because not many people use it, but there are lots of different categories of paraphilias that we might more casually refer to

as kinks or fetishes. And they're not really disorders until they cross that line where it's creating consequences for that individual in their life. So an example would be voyeuristic disorder, exhibitionistic disorder. These are examples of disorders that do create consequences for people, and they also cause people to behave in ways that are illegal. So the clinical definition of voyeuristic disorder is that you are watching people without their permission, without their consent. So now you mentioned this word that I'm not familiar with. I don't know about you guys. You said orgasm. What is that?

It's just a little funny. Yeah. That's my guy. He brings the humor. He's like, I don't know what that is. Silly guy. So now, I guess, in what situation would a person want to seek out someone like you, a sex therapist? Well, you know, sometimes I see people after they've already been to a lot of other kinds of providers. So maybe they've seen a medical doctor.

Maybe they've seen just a general psychotherapist. A lot of my referrals come from other healthcare providers who have seen the client or the patient and said, I think this is really something that could be best treated by a sex therapist. And when people see a sex therapist, they generally know that we've got training in sexuality. So they are looking for help to have better sexual experiences, you know, if they are single or better sexual experiences within their relationship. And is that by teaching people more or helping them understand themselves better? Well, absolutely. That's what I mean by integrity. You know, let's integrate all these parts of yourself that you have split off

that maybe you carry shame about. Maybe there's been some trauma around that. Let's integrate it and really help you be very sexually authentic in your life. And so that's my goal with my clients, is to help them better know who they are as sexual beings, to lean into what brings them pleasure, what affirms them sexually, and to learn to say no to those things that they don't really enjoy. Right. with you initially kind of look like before, well, the person, oh my gosh, I'm sorry. When somebody comes to you, their first session with you, what do you, like walk me through what they go through with you somewhat. Well, the first thing that I do is ask if they have seen a therapist previously so that I know if they have a point of reference for that.

I explain to them that everything we talk about is confidential. Just like all of your other health care information. I'm also a licensed health care provider. So whatever you tell me stays in the room. There are a few exceptions to that. If someone tells me that they have a plan to harm themselves or they have a plan to harm someone else, I'm legally obligated to act on that to try to prevent it. But everything else that people tell me, legal, illegal, you know, secrets, it stays confidential. And then I ask the client to tell me what they want from me, what their expectation is. What are you hoping I can help you with? If this situation in your life that you've identified as a problem, if we can fix it, how will your life be different? That helps me understand how that client is going to measure success,

how they're going to know when they feel like they got what they needed from the therapy. Right. How often do they know what it is that they expect to get out of your therapy sessions? Do they always know what they're expecting to get from you? Well, that's a great question. And it seems like that, you know, if they're coming to therapy, they're going to know what they want or what they need. But that's not always the case. So sometimes people come in and they just know that they're unhappy. They just know that their relationship isn't working for them and they don't have all the answers as to why. And so, you know, that makes my work a point of reference for has it ever felt good? Have you ever had a sexual experience that felt positive to you? And when was that? What was happening then? How is that different from the relationship that you are in now?

And so sometimes it does require more intense investigation and digging a little deeper into the past. Sometimes people come in and they're really clear about what they need. They've already done a lot of reading or they've tried other kinds of therapies. And they are at a point in their life where they know what they need. They just need some coaching and some assistance at achieving it. Are there certain techniques that you use to get them there or is there hypnosis? I mean, I don't know what it is that you, is it? Yeah. Yeah. Well, the things we do in sex therapy are the things that you would expect from any other kind of psychotherapy. Certainly hypnosis,

a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy, some trauma interventions like EMDR, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, experiential therapy. So things like psychodrama, for example, if you're familiar with that, or other kinds of experiential therapies, it really depends on the individual client, their diagnosis, and, you know, finding a treatment modality that is ideal for them. Is there an average length of time, like in your experience, an average length of time it has taken for you to, I'm going to say, crack the case? Yeah. Well, you know, most of the cases that I see, within 10 sessions, there is significant improvement. Now, that's not true for all of them, but some of them are more problematic where there is severe trauma, or maybe there are other kinds of mental health issues that that person is dealing with that are contributing to the sexual problems, like addiction, for example.

You know, sometimes people come in and they have sexual problems, but it becomes apparent that they also have a meth addiction or an addiction to alcohol. And this is interfering with their sexual relationships. And, you know, maybe they were ready to deal with the sexual issue, but they're not ready to get sober yet. And so those cases are a little more challenging and problematic. And it's part of what you do, helping them to actually get like the mental health separate from you. Well, you know, I'm a psychotherapist first, and then sex therapy became a specialization. So I also see clients for depression, anxiety, other kinds of issues.

So I think of it as kind of one-stop shopping. Right. Actually, I was just going to say that. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I will tell people at times I really cannot help you deal with the sexual issue as long as you have this active addiction. Right. That, you know, there's sometimes an order of things that need to be resolved first. And sometimes I lose clients over that because they may come in and say, well, no, I'm not giving up meth. Right. Like I wasn't here for that part. Right. Yeah.

So now is sex like a conversation you should have with a therapy and a therapy with a therapist. And the reason I asked that is I actually, I just graduated from therapy. Really my therapist quit on me, but that's another story. But I don't think, I mean, we talked about my childhood trauma and I went through a lot of like molestation and those kinds of things, but we never talked about, I don't ever remember having a conversation about what my sex life was like now. Yeah, and I think that's unfortunate, but that is how most therapists are trained. So generally, you know, as I began saying when we started today, most therapists are not trained in sexology.

They're not required. We're not required to take a single course in human sexuality. So they don't have the foundation to really be of assistance with that. What we do get trained in a lot is that we need to have boundaries with our clients, and we don't want to behave in any way that causes the client to think that we are coming on to them sexually. Gotcha. Also, we're trained to be hypervigilant to identifying the potential for sexual abuse or a history of sexual abuse. So the training that we get is in the dangers of sex. And that causes a lot of therapists to just not want to talk about the subject, to not want to

ask questions about it. Because if I ask this question and I open it up, I don't have any training to help you at this point. So I don't have anything to offer. Slippery slope. Yeah. So what was it about or sexuality that made you want to go into it more or knew that was an area that was lacking in a way? Well, when I got out of graduate school and I became licensed and I had people coming to me for sexual problems and I realized I don't have a clue what to do here. And, you know, most therapists are female. This is a female dominated profession. So in some of the mental health settings that I worked in or psychiatric hospitals that I worked in, most of my colleagues were female. When a male client or patient came in that was dealing with

sexual problems, a lot of the women didn't feel comfortable or maybe even didn't feel safe working with that client. And so I got him just by virtue of the fact that I'm a male and that felt a little safer, or maybe it was even more comfortable for him. And a couple of years into this, I met a sex therapist and started talking with her. This was a female sex therapist. I was fascinated with her work. And she is the one who said, you know, I think maybe you need to develop a specialization in this. And here's how you can become certified and get more training in this. And so that's really kind of what propelled me in that direction is I was open and comfortable talking to people about sex. And I recognized that people had a tremendous amount of shame

and sadness related to parts of their sexuality that they had shut down either because of abuse or because they just didn't have a good understanding of who they were as sexual beings. Definitely. I actually, last year, I was invited to do a sexual assault panel with a group. I was the only male there. It was all females. But I was listening to one of the females tell her story, and she felt shame because her body reacted

to her assault. Right. So those are the kinds of things that you're speaking of? Absolutely. And a lot of people don't understand that they can still have an arousal response because this is physiological. Right. And sometimes people feel like their bodies betrayed them because their bodies seem to be getting pleasure from this experience that psychologically was very traumatizing to them. But sexuality is a combination of our psychology, our physiology. That's why sexual science is so important to understand, to help people see that it's not just one or the other. So do you think that teaching like sex education in schools is important, like for younger kids or teenagers? Absolutely. And it's, you know, I'm so sad that in our country we don't allow sex education in schools. And, you know, we're even going in some states, we're going in the other direction to eliminate school counselors' ability to talk to children about sexuality, to eliminate teachers' ability to talk to children about

sexuality. And it's, you know, we're not trying to teach kindergarten kids or elementary school children about intercourse. But you're trying to teach them that they have a right to say no to who touches them and where they are touched. You're trying to teach them things like keeping their hands to themselves, calling people by their names. You know, the importance of washing your hands, the importance of hygiene. These are really simple things that are also sex education. And we certainly want it to be age appropriate. But, you know, my adult clients, they talk about their childhood. They had sexual experiences in childhood.

They had sexual feelings in childhood. And certainly in adolescence when, you know, our bodies are changing, our bodies look different. They do different things than they've ever done before. We're having thoughts we've never had before. And nobody is going to talk to them about it. It is so sad that adolescents have to deal with that. Parents, I know what we hear is, well, the parents should be talking about that. But they don't.

Actually, I was just going to ask that. I felt like you took that right out of my mind. sex, gave them a book to read, you know, did something to try to help them navigate their puberty and adolescence. It just doesn't happen because the parents don't have the information either. And so many of them think, well, if I just don't talk about it, my child adolescent isn't thinking about it. Child and adolescents know more about sex than most of their parents do now. It's really unfortunate because it's inevitable. We as humans, like you said previously, we're meant to procreate. We're meant to have sex essentially. And if we're not taught about it early on or whatever, then bad things can happen. It's proven. Right. And that's how people have so much shame by the time they get to adulthood is they've been carrying around these thoughts, desires, experiences, and they haven't been able to talk to anyone about it. And they don't feel like they can talk to their parents. And, you know, now in many states in

this country, it's illegal for them to talk to a school counselor about it. That counselor cannot legally have a conversation with that child or adolescent. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. But I guess parents kind of need to pick up the slack a little bit and find, let's find a way to talk to our kids about it. And if you can't do it, we could call Dr. Stevens. Because I feel like I'd never really had a conversation with my parents about sex. And then I kind of went through years of molestation and then I kind of, you know, it came out and I ended up telling my parents and then we definitely didn't talk about sex, you know? So just for the record, I talk to my children about sex.

I just want that out there. Good. You're a good mama. You're right. Ain't nobody accusing you or nothing. I'm just saying. I just want that out there. Well, you know, it's pretty funny. I was thinking about it. My mom looks at me the other day and she was like, you don't miss sex? And I'm like, this is not a conversation I want to have with my 71-year-old mom. I've been with her for so long. not a conversation I want to have with my 71-year-old mom. Right. We're not going to talk about it when I needed to talk about it. But now, when I don't need to talk about it, you want to know my business. Yeah. Well, you know, let me bring up this point. Not all sex includes another

person. So some people enjoy solo sex. They enjoy sex just by themselves. And, you know, just through that, you can still have a very rich and fulfilling sex life. Right. So now what do you think about people who like call those kind of people perverts or perverted or, you know, it's, you know, I have a stigma. Yes, it's a stigma. Yeah, it is a stigma. And I have like a cousin who's like that. He has like traumatic brain. He had, he got hit by a car when he was younger. But so his, you know, he's 38 now and like his mom buys him everything, like all the toys that he wants to play with, you know, and people always hard on her, like, you know, that's perverted. You're

teaching a son to be a pervert. And I'm like, no, it isn't that way. But what would you say? Well, pervert isn't a clinical term. It's not something I would ever call one of my clients. And what we know is that masturbation is very normal. It has existed in every culture throughout the beginning of humankind. And, you know, that's what I tell clients about a lot of aspects of sexuality. There is nothing that's happening in the world of sex today that's new. Everything we're talking about has always existed in every culture throughout humankind. Now, maybe we knew it by different names. Maybe we conceptualized it differently.

But there's really nothing new in the world of sex. And masturbation certainly is not new. For most of us, that is our very first sexual experience is with ourself, with our own body. And what's healthy about that is that you get to know your own body. You get to move at your own pace. You get to explore your body in the way that you're comfortable doing and in the way that is most fulfilling to you. So, you know, with some of my clients, I talk to them just about their relationship with their own body. If you don't know what feels good just on your own, how do you expect a partner to know how to pleasure you and know what is going to feel good to you?

Because that can vary from one person to another. We're not all alike. Right. Definitely. And I guess how would you broach or how would you recommend someone start a conversation with their partner when there's things that they don't like? Well, that is difficult. And, you know, I am surprised at the number of couples that I have worked with who, you know, have been married for several years and I've never had a conversation about sex. Definitely. And, you know, they really don't think that they are having sex unless there's vaginal intercourse. And so they can be engaging in other things sexually, but they

don't really think that's sex. They might call it foreplay, or they might call it petting, or making out, but they don't feel like that they're actually having sex until there's vaginal intercourse. So my role in working with couples is to open this up. You know, if you want honesty and transparency in your relationship, it's got to be safe to talk about everything, including talking about sex. Right. And I know I talked to a female once and she was telling me that her husband liked rough sex, you know, and it's like, sex shouldn't hurt. To me, I don't think it should.

You know, like, I feel like it's okay to explore and play around and, you know, I'm open to everybody being okay with everything. But I'm like, if he's hurting you, you need to tell him. And she, you know, was so scared that I don't want to get a divorce. And it was like, you he's hurting you, you need to tell him. And she was so scared that I don't want to get a divorce. And it was like, you think that's going to cause a divorce? You know, it was like, wow. Yeah. And, you know, that's unfortunate for women in our culture. So many women have been taught that sex is for him and that they should not expect to get pleasure from it. That it's something that a woman does to please her husband.

We're transitioning out of that. You know, women have a better understanding of their own bodies. Today, women are more sexually assertive today about their own needs, their own desires. And I also find that younger men, men in their 20s, their 30s, they are more attentive to their female partners than men, for example, in my generation or older generations. Right. And that's just probably because what they were taught at home, I'm guessing. Well, it can be what you learned at home or it can be just what you learned in culture. And, you know, again, it's another reason that sex education is so important.

There was a time, you know, 100 years ago when female orgasms were not even understood. People who believe that women didn't even have orgasms because women didn't orgasm in the way that men do. And because men generally orgasm quicker than women through vaginal intercourse. And some women don't orgasm through vaginal intercourse at all. So, you know, because there was not a lot of attention to female sexuality, women just didn't really understand their own bodies. And at that time, they didn't have the rights to sexual pleasure that men had. Wow. That's pretty deep when you think about it likeesh. So let's talk about the book.

Okay. Do you want me to talk about it or you want to talk about it? Yeah, I do. I don't want you to talk about it. Actually, first, I'm going to tell you. So we have this thing with all of our guests that's on our podcast. So we need an autographed copy of your book. Okay. All right.

Provide me with an address and I will send it. Look, we will gladly pay for it. We're not asking for nothing for free, but we're just collecting books with autographs. Okay. But yes, I would like you to go into your book a little bit. Okay. Well, I'm going to show you the cover again. It's titled Sexual Integrity, Finding the Courage to Be Yourself. I use the mask on the cover because it's a metaphor that people bring up in therapy a lot. They say things like, no one really knows me. I wish I could be myself. I feel like I'm hiding behind a mask. I wish I could just take off the mask and be myself. This is a theme that comes up over and over, and it's why I wrote the book. Integrity, some people think that word means being self-righteous or being, you know,

rigid and moralistic. That's not what it means. It means to walk your talk. It means that your words and your actions are congruent. It means that you are presenting yourself as you are. And that's what this book is about. It's about finding the courage to just be yourself, to say, this is who I am. This is what I like. This is how my body works. This is what I want. This is what I need. So in this book, I do provide some history of sexuality and different expectations, different kind of thoughts about sex throughout U.S. history. And I provide some clinical recommendations and resources, but also scenarios of different cases that I have worked on of people who were really struggling to be sexually authentic, to be themselves in their relationships and to tell their truth. A lot of times it's because of judgment, correct? Yes. We fear being judged.

We fear being rejected. It's why couples keep secrets from each other. I'm afraid if I tell you about this fantasy that you won't love me anymore, that you will call me a name like pervert. Right. Yeah. And that's really where we start shutting down honesty in a relationship. It needs to be safe to be honest. Right. In the relationship. And I teach couples that intimacy cannot exist if honesty is not going to be tolerated. Definitely. Or feeling safe. Yeah, right. So now what made the book? Was it just you realizing people are so misinformed? Yes. It's, you know, 30 years um, people will call me, they, they will be on the fence about whether they want to start sex therapy or not. Uh, and I'll say, well, why don't you just buy the book? You know, if you buy the book, you'll get a flavor of who I am and what I do as a sex

therapist. And maybe there's some things in the book that you're dealing with that I've addressed there. So start there. And often that does lead them to then calling me and saying, okay, I'm ready to make an appointment. Right. Yeah. Nice. And what point in somebody's life do you think they should start looking or, you know, I hate to say start looking. I feel like I need to start looking because I'm not a very intimate person. I don't like intimacy. I kind of don't like people in my personal space. I don't even want to share my bed. Right. So I just need like six therapists and there may be you. But and what part of life do you think a person should look into this avenue

into, you know, maybe this can help me. I think when they are not happy with themselves. And so, you know, all the things that you just mentioned, Micah, I would not be quick to diagnose that as being a disorder or to label it as a problem. I would say it sounds like you know some things about yourself. It's really important that you be happy, that you feel safe in your life. And if this is not causing you consequences, then why change it? Right. See, first person ever told me that because sometimes I feel like, hmm, I need to like have somebody. But then other times when I think about sharing my space, it's like, ah, I'm good. Well, there are lots of ways to have somebody, not all couples or not all partners live together. Sometimes people even live in different cities and that relationship with the other person is very important to them. So, you know,

another thing I say in the book is relationships are not one size fits all. You know, you got to have the relationship that works for you. And you got to be able to find people who want the same kind of relationship that you do. And relationships can change form across time. Sometimes, you know, it might work really well for you to live separately, but five years into it, you think, okay, I think I want to live together now. Right. Yep. I don't know what the statistics are. I'm actually meant to look it up, but statistically, I'm sure you probably know the rate marriages typically maybe end due to sexual issues in their relationships. That's pretty high, you think? Well, the divorce rate continues to be around 50%. Cause of divorce, I don't know that we can always statistically know that, but certainly in my field,

I've worked with a lot of people who have divorced because of sexual issues. Right. And your advice on that is just talk to your partner. If you're married, you should feel comfortable enough to have a sex conversation, I would think. Well, I think you should have those conversations even before you get married, because sometimes it's after the marriage that people discover that they are just not sexually compatible at all. Right. That, you know, nothing is lining up here. And it's a myth that if you love someone, that that fixes everything. It doesn't. Sometimes people love each other. They have a similar sense of humor. They have very similar values, but they're very different sexual people. And they make an assumption that, well, there's enough here for us to get married,

but there's not enough there for them to have a lasting, fulfilling sexual relationship for the rest of their life. And sometimes people say that sex is not the most important thing in a marriage. Maybe it's not the most important thing in a marriage. Maybe it's not the most important thing, but it's a really important thing. It is the thing that distinguishes this relationship from every other relationship in your life. So it needs to be talked about. Otherwise, you're just living with a friend. Yeah. Yeah. Or a roommate.

And sex should be enjoyable, right? It should be pleasurable. Well, yeah, yes, it is. What do you recommend to people who it's not? Well, I want to understand why it's not pleasurable. Is it physically uncomfortable? Is it physically uncomfortable? Is it emotionally uncomfortable? You know, maybe it's relationally uncomfortable. Maybe the person that you're having sex with, you don't really like, you don't trust them. You don't feel safe with them. And, you know, sometimes people say, well, you know, I really, I've lost my sex drive. I have no sexual desire. And when I start seeing them and talking with them, I realize that they still have a sex drive. They still have sexual desire. They just don't desire their

partner anymore. And there are lots of different reasons why that can happen. So there's still a sexual appetite, but it's just not directed at their partner, spouse, significant other. So now changes in life, would you say that they also, that also like deters people from having sex? You know, like when people say like you're going through a midlife crisis or like that kind of situation, is that real? Like, can that really deter someone from being sexually active? Well, in terms of a midlife crisis, that is, you know, it's not a clinical term. And so it means different things to different people. So let's take something like depression, for example. We know that clinical depression can affect someone's sex drive. People often lose their libido when they're clinically depressed.

We know that anxiety can also impair sexual functioning. Men who have a lot of anxiety might have more difficulty achieving orgasm or having an erection. Women with a lot of anxiety have difficulty achieving orgasm, being able to relax enough to enjoy the sexual experience. And so there are other kinds of mental disorders that can impair sexual functioning. Now, I've also known people or have a lot of female friends always hear about, you know, like guys who are quick or they end it too soon or those kind of things. Is that anything like can that, is that something that can be worked on through therapy? Yes. Early ejaculation.

Sometimes it's referred to as premature ejaculation. There are different reasons for that. The reason can vary from one man to another. But again, straight couples have to understand that male bodies are different from female bodies. And that, you know, a clitoris does not function the same way a penis functions. And that, you know, there's a wonderful book out. I'll plug someone else's book, called She Comes First. It is a wonderful book for men who are dealing with early ejaculation. So this is why couples need to

understand the spectrum of sexual activity and not put so much emphasis just on sexual intercourse. It is very rare that straight couples will orgasm simultaneously just because of the way their bodies are designed and the way the female sexual response is different from the male sexual response. So, you know, sometimes working with couples like this is challenging because she might say to him, well, it's your problem. It's not my problem. You go to the sex therapist. You get it fixed. Right.

But if your partner is having a sexual problem, you are also having a sexual problem. Definitely. having a sexual problem. So I really need that spouse, that partner to participate because there are things that she can do to help him slow down ejaculation. And I need her to join me in finding a solution to this and not just labeling it as his problem. When that happens, it actually makes it worse. And it's really pretty diagnostic of what's going on in that relationship. If you're saying to your partner, that's your problem, you fix it. There's already some lack of empathy there. There's already one person in the relationship who is disengaged. Wow. So now we're sitting here talking about sex therapy, and I know it came up a lot,

like trauma and depression, anxiety, but it doesn't have to be those kinds of situations. People can look it out just to better their sex life? Yes. And, you know, not everybody comes to me because they have a diagnosable sexual disorder or because things are going bad in their life. Sometimes people come in and they some new things within their sexual relationship that maybe they've been curious about. And they are wanting to be coached on how to do that in a way that's safe and consensual and healthy. Now, are there resources that you use to make sure you're, I guess, conveying the proper methods or things for people to try? Well, I'm not sure what you mean by resources. In terms of me conveying the proper methods, I am held accountable to the organization that certifies me as a sex therapist.

So as a psychotherapist, I have a code of ethics. As a sex therapist, I also have a code of ethics that I'm held accountable to. I am required to have, for my psychotherapy license, 30 hours of continuing education every two years. As a sex therapist, 20 hours of continuing education every three years. And so these are things that are in place to keep sexual health care providers up to date on the current science, the current research, and, you know, staying up to date on different interventions to use to help couples make progress and individuals. Okay. Good answer. We actually had like a, he called himself a sex educator who was on a few

weeks ago. And, you know, he kind of was like a person who recommended our role play or try this or, you know, and I guess I was asking, are those some of the same things you do, too, or you kind of like leave that for like sex educators? No, a lot of what I do is sex education. I just, you know, I can take it to a different level because I'm also a licensed psychotherapist. And so we can take it to more clinical level other than just education. But education is a part of my work with all my clients because it's already lacking in their life. Right. Definitely. Yeah. And oftentimes, do you see improvement? Has there ever been a time where you really didn't see improvement in somebody's? Yes. Most of the time we see improvement. That's why I asked the client, you know, in the very first session,

what do you want from me? How will you know when this is better? How will you know when the problem is resolved? Because they are the ones that are measuring success. Right. I am I am working with them on their goals. And it's very client centered. It's it you know, it's very much focused on what it is that they individually are seeking. There are situations where people don't make progress. And sometimes, you know, there are different reasons for that. Sometimes it's because there's another issue that really needs to be addressed, like addiction. I used that example earlier. Or maybe there is underlying trauma that they've never dealt with before. With a lot of my sex therapy clients, they may be involved in a religion that is really sex negative, that doesn't really give them permission to enjoy their sexuality. And so they're balancing their religious beliefs with their sexual desires. And those two things are not incongruent because their religion is teaching them one thing. And as a sexual scientist, I'm teaching them something else. And so sometimes that's a barrier. And sometimes their expectations are just not realistic. I see that with clients who all of their sex education has come from

watching pornography. And they have unrealistic expectations about their bodies, about their partner's bodies, about the sexual experience. You know, pornography is, it's designed to entertain. It's, you know, even people who are pornography actors will tell you this isn't real. This isn't the way it really goes in a real situation with a partner. So, you know, sometimes that's a reason why they don't get the progress that they were hoping for. What they were expecting is not really realistic. Right. Our girl over here, Carissa, she goes to college for psychology right now. And I was just sitting here thinking, um, do you have any words of wisdom or ideas that you would like to share with her about what she should do? Well, if your university offers a single course in human sexuality, it's probably an elective. Universities generally do not require this because it can be so controversial.

But take the course. I will. Yeah, take the human sexuality course. Sometimes it's called psychosexual adjustment and psychology programs. And seek out continuing education opportunities after you graduate on the subject of sexuality. Now, does it really change that much? Are you always learning something new? Yes, I am always learning something new because while sex has not changed across history and the things people engage in have not changed across history, our understanding of sexuality is improving. You know, just like our bodies haven't changed a whole lot, but every day we learn new things about the heart and the brain. And so the same thing is true with sexuality. We continue to make new discoveries. We continue to learn new things. It's really difficult to get funding

to study sex. And some of our best discoveries have come while studying other things. So in that grant that you got to study autism, for example, and the brains of people who are on that autism spectrum, a lot has been discovered about how people bond, how people form relationships, how they connect on a sexual level. Some of our sexual discoveries came while studying other things. Interesting. So now is that something, I don't know, I guess I have to talk with you is like, if you don't know who you are sexually, there's no way for you to really be happy. You have to figure all that stuff out for happiness. Do you agree with that or?

Well, it's what I think, but you know, not everybody places sex as a priority. So some people really, you know, it falls down very low on the list for them. And so it's relative to you as an individual. Sorry. How do you get a couple who one finds it a priority and the other doesn't? Well, this again is why couples should be having this discussion before you get together. Right. We just talk about the fact, I want to understand why it's not a priority for the other one. And that people can truly have different sexual appetites. You know, sex is the only biological drive that we expect our partner to line up with us exactly the way we are. Any other biological drive, the drive to eat, the drive to sleep, the drive for water.

If your partner's thirsty, you don't expect them to wait until you're thirsty before they can have something to drink. You know, it might be okay to go to bed early while the other one stays up and watches television. But on the subject of sex, we think you got to want it exactly when I want it. And you got to want it exactly the way I want it. Because we don't really understand that we can have different biological drives for sex. We can have different sexual appetites. And I use food as a metaphor often because, you know, I'll say, maybe you're not hungry. But once you smell the pizza and you see it, you know, you see the pepperoni sizzling and the cheese dripping off the side, you think, well, maybe I'll have a piece after all. And sex can be very much the same way. So sometimes we just need our partner to help us warm up. And then we discover,

yeah, maybe I am in the mood after all. Right. Yeah. Now, do you do you like recommend that couples, I guess it's like the word is there. But, you know, it's like, is this something that we recommend people to visit, like have those conversations? I guess what I'm trying to say is just because you're not lined up sexually, does that mean you don't work or you can't work? We all have a different erotic map. And if you think of the map, it's that point from the beginning of desire to all the way to the other end of achieving orgasm and all the things that happen in between that bring us erotic pleasure. And we can experience erotic pleasure a lot of different places on our bodies, not just our genitals. But there are parts of our body, like our neck, for example, our lips, the back of our knees, the inside of our arms, where there's a

higher concentration of nerve endings. And in those places, stimulation there can feel more pleasurable. So, you know, understand your body, understand your partner's body, have some exploration so that you can then have some discussion about it and find where your maps intersect. So maybe there are different things that you like, but there are going to be some things that both of you like. And finding those intersections on the map is really important. But also could be kind of fun. Well, I think so. Yeah. I'm going home today to play with the back of my knees.

All right. I didn't know that was a part. I'm about to. Okay. Yes. And you know, you can reach back there at any time and rub it

and nobody thinks anything about it. Anything of it. Right. I could do that work. This is amazing. After this, my God. Everybody's going to be looking at me like, are you playing with your knees in your office?

So any last words of wisdom you would like to give our viewers? Yes. So, you know, the thing that I really stress is that you know who you are as a sexual being and that you make peace with that, whatever that is. And let's remove the stigma. Let's remove the shame. Let's help you get down to just who you are as an authentic person and lead from there. The important thing, and this is a subtitle of the book, is just having the courage to be yourself. That's harder than it sounds. Definitely. And now are you accepting new clients at this time? If people wanted to, can they reach out to you? We're going to list all your contact information.

Yes, I am accepting new clients. You can find me, I have two websites. One is sexualintegritycoach.com. The other is drstevandavidson.com. And that's Steven with a V. And so you can reach out to me if I'm not the right person for you. I can also point you in a direction where you can find another certified sex therapist that might be local if you're wanting to see someone face to face. Okay. So now before we end, we always do a little playful question with our guests. We just kind of trying to get to know you. So we're going to talk about guilty pleasures, right? Okay. What is a guilty pleasure, a movie, a book, a TV show that you watch, but you feel if other people knew you watch it, they would think you were silly or weird. Well, a show that I watch almost every night before I go to bed is Golden Girls. You and I are meant to be. And I have watched this for years. I cannot explain it, but it is very soothing to me and relaxing. And it does not matter what kind of mood I'm in.

Golden Girls always, it makes me feel happy. So, yes. And a lot of people would find that odd. But that's it. You know what's odd? I actually never sat down and watched Golden Girls. I've never seen it. Like, I've probably seen an episode, like, in passing or it's at somebody's house and they watch it.

But I never actually, like, saw it. It has been decided that I'm Dorothy. Well, you know, I like Dorothy. Dorothy was smart. She was very level-headed. She was often the voice of reason. Yes, that's me. Yes. OK. That's the consensus.

Dr. Stephen, we thank you so much for coming on. Kind of opening our eyes is a lot of I mean, I finally know there's a sex therapist. It's kind of cool, you know, to know that that option exists. Because I did graduate from therapy. I like saying that, but I didn't graduate from sex therapy. So maybe that's something. It definitely gave me a lot to think about. Oh yeah. So I'm like, maybe there's something that I should consider. Well, thank you for inviting me. This has been a lot of fun and I obviously enjoy talking about

the subject. Definitely. And we are expecting a book, but in return, we're going to send you a pillow. Yeah. Okay. So in return, we're going to send you a pillow. Thanks so much for being on. Thank you.