These Fukken Feelings Podcast© - IT’S OKAY TO BE DIFFICULT' - Navigating Life's Challenges with Tonya Lester | Season 3 - Episode 306

Episode Date: December 13, 2023

Send us a Text Message.In this insightful episode, psychotherapist Tonya Lester helps listeners understand the difference between being mean, rigid, or impossible, and being the good kind of "difficult". She discusses the importance of self-expression, standing for one's needs, and making clear one's life goals. Tonya teaches us how to better manage our thoughts and emotions, build respectful and supportive relationships, and approach decision-making with courage and clarity.We delve deep int...

you don't have to be positive all the time it's perfectly okay to feel sad angry annoyed frustrated scared and anxious having feelings doesn't make you a negative person it doesn't even make you weak it makes you human and we are here to talk through it all we welcome you to these fucking feelings podcast a safe space for all who needs it. Grab a drink and take a seat. The session begins now. What is up, guys? Welcome to these fucking feelings podcast. I am Micah. Unfortunately, I'm here by myself. But fortunately, I have Tanya Lester on with me. Am I saying that correct? Right? Tonya. I knew I was going to mess up somebody's name. Tonya Lester. Now, Tonya, we actually just like to get our guests introduce themselves because I always mess it up. Like I mess up people's names

and I don't want to skip anything. So go ahead and introduce yourself. Sure. Hi, Tonya Lester. I'm a psychotherapist in Brooklyn, New York. I see individuals and couples, but a lot of my work and my writing is around relationships because the quality of our relationships is the quality of our lives. And I think, you know, we don't live in a vacuum. So no matter what we have to work on in ourselves, it's no doubt coming up in our relationships. So I consider it really important work. I've considered it really important to me personally and in my own growth within myself, within my marriage, within my other relationships.

And I also I have a blog and I do some writing in this area as well. So it's what I really care about is helping people help with their relationships. And now is it kind of like husband wife relationship or any relationship? You know, I see a lot of couples. And so usually that's, you know, a partner. But I've seen, you know, yes, families. I've seen siblings who run a business together. I've seen, you know, yes, families, I've seen siblings who run a business together, I've seen, you know,

it runs the gamut. And I would say, in our culture, I think we focus a lot on like, marriages or partners. And, but obviously, many, many different types of relationships are important, and maybe even are the center of our lives. And I think it's important to normalize, you know, getting support also in friendships or, or whatever relationships are valuable to you working on them. Cause I feel like I have a couple of friendships that I need to go therapy with because, you know, I, it's like, I know they're important enough not to get rid of them.

Like we're stay on this course, you know, I'm going the way of life of positivity and they're going the way of life, a lot of negativity. And it's like, okay, I don't want to take another car, but I will. Yeah. Well, have you ever, you know, this gets right away into something really interesting. And at what point do you value the relationship enough to kind of have a hard conversation, right? Even if it doesn't mean being a therapist, but saying, I'm noticing there's a lot of difference here and I want to talk about it. Right. And, and why does that seem so scary to us? You know, that right away it looks at, looks like, are we going to allow this drift to happen or am I going to do the brief thing and

bring it up? Right now? See, I don't have a problem bringing it up. Right. Good. Amazing. A lot of people do. I will talk. OK, give me a second. But no one wants to hear it. And it's like, you know, I have like one of my friends and I hope that she watches the episode. But, you know, her is I can't deal with this right now. And it was like, well, when is why you keep putting me on the shelf? Like, when are we going to deal with it? So, yeah. And what does it feel like to be told by someone you care about that they are going to put you on the shelf? Right. That's a painful.

I imagine. You know what it is? I went through a period of life where I probably was the messy friend. I know people looked at me and like, oh, he's toxic and I need to get him out of my life. And then I had to shift. I think people call it 40. But I had this shift. Yeah.

I didn't want to live that life no more. So I did all the necessary things to improve. And I'm still doing that today. And it's hard to like turn my back on him because of that. You know, and I feel like, I guess, number one, like it's turning my back, but it's like, I know that they dealt with me and all my crap at once. I see. Okay. Yeah. So it feels like you're kind of giving back

and doing for them what you would hope people had done for you and hopefully did do for you. I kind of feel like I wish they would have told me I was the messy friend. Okay. So how did you realize that's interesting that you were the messy friend? It was more like a personal, I guess, realization. I realized, number one, I felt like if I stood where I was at, I was never going to go anywhere. So I made like drastic life changes i moved 10 hours away from my family got a new job a new place whatever fit in my car is what i left with you know it was my chain

changing point is like i feel like it's what i needed to do even though it kind of seemed drastic for a lot of people but it completely changed my life like it allowed me to really focus on me and i know what peace is. Is peace the fact that I'm away from my family? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. It's been a pretty unique journey. But anyway, let's get to you. We had a little session there real quick.

So what made you want to go into this? There's something that you say on your website. I'm trying to think about it. And you probably know if you say it on your website all the time i mean it's something that's worded i love that you say it though it's like it's the one thing about it was like the biggest thing about oh i'm gonna have to look it up you don't mind about pull out my cell phone do you no no not at all i'm sorry i'm not sure what you're referring to where i would jump in for sure she's looking at me like you you're a little crazy right now. No, no. But while I'm looking it up, tell us a little bit about what

made you decide this is the field you want to go into? Sure. I've always been interested in relationships, like I said, and motivation and thinking about why we act the way that we do, the way people maybe get in their own way and how we over-focus on things that are not that important and over-focus on things that are not that important and kind of ignore things that actually would really make a difference. Even when you were talking about your own story, I find that really inspiring because I think a lot of times people need to do something really drastic and instead they try and make these tiny changes around the margins. And then usually the big change doesn't happen with tiny shifts around the margins, right? Usually we have to do something big along that journey, I guess.

I'm always been, since I was a kid, I always, I feel like I always have kind of paid a lot of attention to what, when, what people are communicating is different from what they're saying. I feel like, you know, I, I always have been someone who wanted to talk about the hard stuff. Like you said, I, you know, you like to talk, like, I feel like I don't, I want to get right to it. And those are things that have helped me a lot as a therapist. And I have a lot of curiosity. Training and reading and learning about new kind of therapies, that is what I do on my free time. So it's definitely a great job for me, for sure. That's pretty cool to like somebody. It's not like something so much, you do it on your free time. Yeah. Yeah. It's all that I'm really interested in. It's human behavior and relationships. Yeah. Right now I'm trying to be not so interested in it because I feel like our world is going crazy. So, but you have to witness some crazy things, but also the

transformation must be also incredible to see. Oh, it's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing. And really, if we are breathing, we can make a change. Like there's no too old. There's no too stuck. It's like it's all about whether you're willing to put in the effort and that you have the desire to make a change. And when people don't change, it's because there's something in them that doesn't want to. Right. And so sometimes we have to work to get through that,

but everybody can make a change. I really believe that. And is that part of your service also? Is it like the you? Yeah, well, we look at different parts of ourselves, right? And so there might be a part of you that wants to make some big shift, but then there's another part of you

that might be terrified of it or it might feel disloyal to do it this way. And so we want to really explore, right? We are all made of parts. IFS is the kind of therapy I do, internal family system. And we have to be curious about all of our parts. And oftentimes when we feel stuck, it's because we have a polarity, one part who wants to do one thing and one part who wants to do another. And so that's why change is hard. And in therapy, a major thing we do is try and kind of explore all those different parts. Now, what's your take on trauma? Like, do you deal with trauma? Or I had we recently talked to somebody was like, I don't like calling it trauma. And they had a really unique perspective on it. And it was like, you can't just assume that everybody believes in trauma, you know? Oh, well, I believe in trauma for sure. And yeah, I was like, how do I ask that question now?

Because now I can't use that word yet. No, I'm comfortable with using the word trauma. Any therapist who says they don't deal with trauma is, I don't know what population they're working with, but everyone, you know, there's so much trauma in the world that, of course, I deal with trauma all the time. what we think of as like really traumatic experiences that anyone will look at and think, oh, that is abuse or a terrible accident or things that we think of. And then there's small T trauma, right? Which is something that really sticks with us or felt very harmful to us. And so, you know, trauma doesn't always have to be the big T trauma. A lot of people come in with little T trauma and we take that seriously because it's because we're working on their their personal growth. So certainly there's trauma, you know, in every almost every session. OK, to a varying degree. My next question, you said is OK to be difficult is what I saw on your site.

Yeah, it's OK to be difficult. And I was like, I like that. I think that the idea, you know, we think of being difficult, of course, as being someone who's like belligerent or unresponsive or uncollaborative or unnecessarily mean. But I think that the fear of coming across as being kind of in quotes difficult, really stands in the way of a lot of straightforward, direct conversations. And I think sometimes we think that entering into any kind of conflict is being difficult. And there are people who rush towards conflict. There's people who are like magnets towards like upsetting situations.

And that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people who are so afraid of ruffling feathers or hurting feelings or having any conflict at all that they really silence. And so to those people, I saying, it's okay to be difficult because sometimes in my practice, I'll say to someone, what if you said you didn't like that? Or, you know, what if you told her that that used to be okay with you, but you've changed and that's not working anymore? Or what if you said you can't come over unannounced, you have to send me a text first. and people act like that

you know like i could never say that that and and that's really interesting because to me those are very even you know well within the bounds of what's allowed to say and so when i say it's okay to be difficult it's it's okay to have our conversations, say hard things, set boundaries, set limits, stand up for yourself. So yeah, that's what I mean by that. I loved it. And I feel like I'm like, dang, I wish Rebecca was here, which is my co-host, because that's like a great message for her. Is that right? The first time I met her, we worked together in our professional career. And we were at lunch and I made a joke and she stormed off. But me being the person I was, I followed behind her like, where you going?

Let's talk. Like I told her, don't you ever let me take your power like that. Don't ever do that. You know, like what I said definitely had no cruel intention it was not malicious at all it said something off on her and she walked away but it's like no you tell me why you don't like what i said because you know i feel like that's what i deserve also as a person like you know right also i think there's something there about, you know, she, you felt like it meant one thing, but to her, it meant something else, right? And so much of emotional intimacy and

true friendship is saying, you know, you said this, and this is what I imagined you meant. And then you can hear that and hopefully have empathy. Oh, I absolutely didn't intend for it to land that way. I can see where that would be upsetting. And then share, this is what it meant to me, right? And then this is how we develop closeness and how we really, we get to know each other. And it's oftentimes it's like the storming away in other people, not you, obviously, but in other people, it might've been like, well, you know, screw her or whatever, or what's her problem or whatever. And, but you, you know, you, you push past that to really see like, you know, what did it mean as opposed to both of you

thinking the other person was a terrible asshole. Right. It's like, it's like you were able to connect. Yeah. We were bad, you know, to me, it's like, we're brand new coworkers. We got to work together, you know, comes out now two years later, she's like my best friend. That's amazing. But even when we got there, because we had many conversations, I still never knew what she heard. Kind of like what you were saying. It was such a good, it was like you just gave us a great conversation. I wish she was here. You could have it right here that would be amazing yeah god what did you

it's like if we've talked about how it made her feel but I never know what she heard so okay Tonya I see you you get some snaps we are ready because I'm like, it's so simple. It's simple. There's a kind of a conversation structure that I use with the clients all the time that I learn from group therapy. So I don't know who originally came up with this, but it's I notice, I imagine, I feel, I need. Right. So I notice is objectively something that happened that would you could go in a court of law, right? So it would be like, I noticed you stormed out of the room. Like, anyone would agree on that. If it was on a video, you could prove it.

And then I imagine is what you made that. And so you might say, I'm just guessing, but you might say, I imagine that you think I'm a big jerk and you decided that you don't like me right off the bat. That's when I feel hurt and anxious because I now I feel like I've gotten off on the wrong foot with someone who I want to work well with and maybe even be friends with, you know, and my request or you can say I need. But probably my request is better, especially in a friendship situations. My request is that we can talk this through together, you know, something or something like that. And hers might be, you know, I noticed you said this thing, I imagine that you don't care about insert the blank, you know, I, so you get to kind of know

what the other person is making things mean that way. There's a lot of variations about this. I know Brene Brown does one. I know Terry real does one, but I like, I noticed, I imagine I feel, and then we can, let's say I request at the end. Okay. That's, that's pretty cool. Um, like you over here, we having the therapy for real.

You're supposed to be here for this and she's gonna be so mad when i tell her so uh oh no i'll put those friends y'all gonna rub it all the way like yeah okay we had a good conversation but so are these twos that you use your own relationships yeah um you know it's so funny it's like never, it's very easy to help somebody else, right? And everyone will say that. And I think I am a big believer that therapists need therapy because we need someone else to call us out on our own stuff, you know, the way that we do for other people. So yeah, I don't do it exactly like that. But I think my husband and I, we've been married for a long time

and I feel like we've gotten much better and I I'm someone who still I'm embarrassed to say this but I really need to push myself to speak up if I'm angry like it is my absolute instinct to avoid keep it moving I do not like conflict and um but my relationship really suffered from that. And it got much, much better when I started being more speaking up, being more forceful than felt comfortable for, for me. And, and, you know, I'm lucky because my husband is very committed and really responded to that. Whereas I think sometimes people feel like, well, I could say what I want and she wouldn't even care or he wouldn't even care. And if that's true, if that's really true, then it's not a good relationship and maybe shouldn't be saved. Like the other person

should want you to be happy, right? And want to be working with you to make the relationship stronger. So I'm glad in my own relationship, I kind of got my got my act together that way. I wrote a piece about it that was in The New York Times. I don't know if that came across, but I I've actually written in a nationalist paper about my own relationship. Like I did see part of it, but I got it. I'm definitely going to definitely go now. Yeah, right. It's all about it's all about. That's going to take you on a journey to try to discover why you didn't like conflict.

Like, did you have to go through that? Yeah. I mean, I, I hadn't been in enough individual therapy by then that I had a pretty good idea of where it came from and could really see where my avoidance came from and people pleasing. And of course it's from my family origin because that's where these things are always from. And, um, but that kind of last critical step and beyond us, it's one thing to have insight in yourself, it's one thing to have understanding, it's a whole nother thing to really put it into practice and in a deep way. So I'll

just be honest and say that's still something that I'm much better, but it's, I have to make myself do it, I have to kind of gear myself up. So it never just gets easy because that's my personality, right? It's very ingrained, but I'm working to overcome that part of me. I kind of went from being the most timid person in the world to now just say and ask and what I want. And it's, you know, some people are like, you know, once I knew that I knew I needed to change in this and what, and kind of what we're talking about, you know, things that make you uncomfortable and comfortable and those kinds of

things. Like once I knew and figured out, right. It was okay to do it. Like, Oh, I'm supposed to do this. You know,

that's amazing. Now I probably go too far a little bit and people don't, they wish that I always, you know, okay. So they think now you're being not difficult, but impossible. Right. Maybe. That's right.

Never malicious. I'm just honest and blunt about everything. And it's myself. And, you know, it's one thing my boss always getting credit about is like that. I don't mind saying I'm wrong or that I made. Yeah, I didn't do something like, you know, that came with my change too, just accepting my responsibility in life. Yeah. So no defensiveness.

Right. You know, I got a tool for telling the customer I overslept, but it was the truth, you know, and everybody's getting on me like, you got to watch your audience. You got to know who your audience is. And I'm like, my audience is human. Yeah. Or maybe my audience is my own value of honesty. Right. And that's who I'm answering to is my own integrity. Okay. You see, I'm going to use that now. I didn't think that line. That's a good line. My own integrity. Because, you know, it's still now that they always even like hit me reminders because I am so, I'm still so honest you know it's like yeah I kind of messed that up you know I saw it but I didn't fix it because I was busy doing this and you know and they're like you're not just supposed to accept it right they're like just don't accept

the blame so I think all of them need to call you you said earlier that the world is like going crazy. And what would it be like if we all approached conflict without defensiveness and total honesty? And I would add empathy and kindness to that because I think that just total honesty maybe might have a sharp edge, right? You can say almost anything in a empathetic way um you know it's like it's a lot of the world's going crazy is because there's a lot of dishonesty there's a lot of people being defensive and not taking responsibility for themselves that i want to be in where everybody knows what's going on and and and no bullshit i have a friend he's a whore, a big whore. But I always tell him, like, just tell women you're a whore. You know, like to me, you're going to find women that are going to accept it. You know what I'm saying? Of course, you're going to find what the same thing. It's setting expectations and not misleading people. Right. And then there's no bad behavior like that. Like what you're talking about isn't bad behavior as long as it's honest right and everyone has the same expectation i totally agree with you yes then i'm like that's

where people like y'all just need to like change to just tell people like i promise you his fear is that know what i'm never going to meet any girls and i'm like okay so now you're gonna stay in the hurt relationships and now you're fighting and crying because you cheated, which you was going to cheat anyway. And if you just would have told her in the beginning, we wouldn't have all these tears. And she would have been able to make an honest assessment of whether she wanted to enter that relationship or not. Right. So he also is taking away from these partners the ability to, like, make good decisions for themselves because they don't have all the information. Right. And that's not a good way to engage with other people how much of your work it deals with that infidelity well not so much infidelity but kind of taking choices like you know oh a lot

right it's like um it's hard right it's hard for us to be totally honest about ourselves all the time, right? And so there's a lot of like, we are when we talk about lying, I think people say, well, I never lie, because maybe they don't just outright, like, false, like, it's like your face, right? Okay, good, good. There's a lot of ways to lie, right. And we all we all lie sometimes. Like it's it's part of human nature. It's because of how we want to come across to people. It's because we don't want to upset people. It's because we don't want to be rude. And I think a good way and lies of omission are the biggest thing. Right. It's like if you don't tell someone something they would want to know on purpose, that's a lie. That's a lie. Say that one more time. If you aren't telling someone something they would want to know and you're not telling them on purpose, then you are lying. That is a lie.

If you never would have occurred to you they'd want to know, then that's not malicious. That's just a mistake. if um they wouldn't care right they don't care what you had for lunch that lunch that day or whatever and that's not a lie but if it's something that you know they would want to know and you're not telling them in order to avoid their reaction or a difficult conversation and of course i'm talking about non-abusive situations there's great reasons to lie if you feel like you're in danger. But so for so outside of those circumstances, then it's a lot like lies of omission are still lies. And I think a good way to think about just to go one step further. It's like, if you want to be closer to someone, you want to be more honest.

If you want to create distance from someone, then it doesn't matter so much if you lie. Like it's, I'm not going to say we should all be totally honest all the time because that's totally unrealistic. But if we want emotional vulnerability and emotional closeness, then we want to be honest. I'm honest most of the time. I'm going to say like, and it is exhausting because, and I'd be like, hey, I don't got time to love all y'all bad. So because everyone feels so close to you is that what you're saying because you're so honest that's fascinating they're like how you how are you feeling horrible you know my answer is the truth yeah I couldn't sleep last night I was tossing and turning I woke up in sweat

now I had to take a shower three o'clock in the morning. You know, I couldn't go back to sleep. And they're like, I was just saying. But it sounds like they're really drawn to you because of that and that they feel close to you because of that. A lot of people tell me, you know, I walked up to a table the other day and it was a nurse table and she was like giving out injections on vaccines and um i was just looking at the table and they're like what you didn't sign up what are you doing over here and i'm like i just came to see what i can take just because i ain't getting the injection doesn't mean you know and they're like you might have something to offer right they're like i want the free stuff too it's free yeah yeah but yeah but i do i do but i you know, I can can see what, you know, it kind of made a lot of sense when you said, you know, like the less honest, the less people are drawn to you and I'm like, maybe that's it. I talked to.

Well, are you honest in a different way with the people that you want to be closest to? Or are you the same with everyone? Would you say i don't know i tell you i kind of when i when i went through my change to realize that like it was okay to be me then i really no problem being me so like i'm the one person that could see this i know that there is a reason for why everybody does the things that they do so it's very hard to be upset with people you know yeah there's a reason to why they got attitude you know you know there's a reason like you have a lot of empathy which is that's great i mean that that's what hit me right i got empathy and now i'm over here and i'm like it's okay you stabbed me you had a bad day it's all right so we can take everything too far even empathy and me because i want to be good at everything see that's another conversation yeah okay, okay. Perfectionism.

We are an award-winning podcast now. You're our very first. Congratulations. After winning an award, we won Saturday night. Amazing! Congratulations! That's so exciting. Podcast awards in the health category. Okay.

Okay. All them people out here talk about health, and we't we don't want you like but no we thank you thank you thank you thank you on the award-winning podcast the award yeah all right yesterday my brother got on his nerves he was visiting me and he was like what you say you know he would say something i'm like like, what are you saying to award-winning podcast hosts? He was like, I'm going to have to hear this all day. And it's like, yeah. At least for a few more days, for sure.

He was like, you can't wait to get it. He was like, you can take me to the airport now. And I'm like, it's three hours, you know? Going to make the award-winning podcast host drive you now? Right, right. He's dizzy. He's got award-winning stuff to do. Right, award-winning stuff to do. You know what I'm saying? So tell us a little bit about, I guess,

your business, your services, and the things that you offer. I see couples and individuals. So that's my practice. And it's virtual? Right now, I'm all virtual. Sometimes I've done both. But right now, I'm all virtual um and like sometimes i've done done both but right now i'm

all virtual and um i'm also you know i write and um i'm writing a book that will be published next year and so um it was originally going to be called be difficult actually which i think you probably like but um i think now it might be something slightly different like pushback so we'll see still working on that with my publisher. But yeah, so that's... They're both good, though. They're both good. Yeah, I thought push...

You know, when they said they didn't want to be difficult, I thought I was bummed. But I was like, well, pushback isn't... Pushback is pretty good. So I can make it work. Man, you're brown a little bit. You know, it's too funny. I'm like not being difficult enough about being difficult. I'm not a professional, but I think it will resonate with a lot of people i do too i do too i might keep fighting for that we'll see i will be confused about a little bit but you can't

get wrong would be difficult you know yeah yeah i think what it is is and i get this totally because this is what my mom said when I told her the title. She goes, oh, Tonya, aren't there enough difficult people in the world? You know, so I think people think of it as being impossible, right? Where I'm really trying to give permission to say hard things. Anyways, I'm playing with it. Impossible people, I think, sometimes don't know they're impossible. Exactly right. It's okay to teach someone how to be difficult the're impossible. So exactly right. It's okay to teach

someone how to be difficult the right way. That's right. Thank you. That is going to be my blurb on the back. Yeah, I that's exactly what the book is for. It's really to teach people to be difficult in the right way. And, and not to, you know, the idea is not to torpedo relationships, it's to make it them stronger, right. And so if you're leaving a wake of destruction in your path, then you might need to rethink the way you're being difficult. But if you're having kind of hard conversations and intimate relationships with people who are as invested in you as you are in them, then you're probably being difficult in the right way. Well, you're very good at this because just in this short time that we had together, I realized I could be impossible sometimes.

But I'm also realizing, OK, I got a lot of empathy. You do have a lot of empathy. I could say a lot of empathy, but also is like, you know, am I getting what I I guess require, request, need, you know,'s like, you know, all those things too. And okay, I see you. I actually have a quiz on my website that is, you know, are you difficult? Are you impossible? Or are you a shock absorber? Which is my word for people who just take all the blows in order not to make anyone

else around them uncomfortable, right? And so if any of you or any of your listeners were interested, that's anyone else around them uncomfortable. Right. And so if any few or any of your listeners were interested, that's on TonyaLester.com. I was trying not to take it because I feel like I'm a little bit of all of them. And you know what? I just say ready for the truth. OK. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we probably all have different scenarios that would bring that out in us. So I think that's very honest. But we want to see what we lead with, right?

And we don't want to lead with impossible and we don't want to lead with shock and severe pain. I'm one of those weird people. It's like I'm outspoken and those kind of things. But I don't mind taking the blame and I don't mind taking the blame for others, you know? So it's like sometimes I am the shock absorber, but other times I'm the shock. Sometimes you're the shock. Yeah. yeah yeah sometimes you're the magnet and sometimes yeah yeah so it's kind of i mean it's cool it's one thing i love about this podcast is that we get people like you to come on who are like masters in your area and you come and you share these things and it's like, I never thought of the concept of being difficult or being, you know, too much.

But your word for it is difficult. What is that thing you said after difficult? Impossible. Oh, difficult, impossible or shock absorber. Those are the categories. Yeah. Yeah. I can see some situations where I might have been impossible.

So I wonder how I could bring that down to just being the necessary difficult. That's right. I think that's what we need. Yeah. I think that's what we need. And that's, that's what the whole book is about.

So I hope that it resonates with people. I know. And I guess have you back if you want to come back. Love it. Well, when you, when your book drops and that way, Rebecca could be

here and we got i would love that that would be amazing yeah we'll do a like a friendship couple therapy with the two of you because that is my work wife and sometimes she's my best friend we uh we do transportation and we manage truckers and i I think that really, I'm the mama and she the daddy. That is so interesting. They're our babies. Yeah. Oh, okay. And they're all the children.

You're the parent. Yeah. You know, because they call her boss. All the guys call her boss and then I get called by my name. Interesting. Okay. They're a little bit afraid of her. You know, but it's so funny because so much of things that she said about being a shock absorber, Rebecca is.

But also just she doesn't. She is now really. I think I fight with her enough. We've got that brotherly bond. Yeah. So I make her fight with me enough that now I see her speaking up in other situations. Well, you've grown, right? I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to cut you off. At the beginning, I was talking about many types of relationships can be a center for growth. That's such a beautiful example of that, your friendship. We're teaching each other so much. I do

offend her a lot, and I think it's just being different, but it makes me think about why I offended her and why I thought it was okay to say what I was saying. It gives me a lot and I think it's just being different but it makes me think about why I offended her and why I thought it was okay to say what I was saying so it gives me a lot to think about too and I feel like I remember my mom told me once about uh you talk about soulmates and she was like sometimes it's impossible to be with your soulmate because they really hold a mirror up in front of you and show you yourself you know and so I think that that's kind of what Rebecca is to me. Like she's really my soulmate. Sorry, Scott. That's a husband.

He also has nothing to worry about because I'm gay. Yes. Any last minute. I know I probably took you all over the place. Right. And she was like, uh, crazy interview. Anything that you were like before you go, anything you felt like that I left out? Yeah, no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say that. I just I guess if I was going to say anything to close it out, it's just that you every one of us are worthy of growth and having a life with meaning and having positive relationships. And no matter where you are or what your past has been, that could be in front of you. And sometimes that means working on ourselves first so that we're showing up in the relationships. And like you said, all relationships

really are like a mirror. And we want what we want. We need the best of us to be reflected in our friendships and our partners and everyone. And I think sometimes we can get very, very discouraged when we've had some negative experience. So again, growth is always, if you have breath in your body, growth and change are possible. Right. Very, very well said. I would have said it the same way, but you know, I'll let you have it.

Thank you. Thank you very much. But thank you thank you very much but no thank you so much for coming on um i'm definitely gonna invite you back because i'm gonna want my autographed copy that i will happily pay for it just must be autographed okay you will get it you'll absolutely get it you know i also would like to send you a pillow comfort support pillow i squeeze it a lot talking to people conversations could get deep sometimes yeah that's great but yes so thank you so much for being on thank you guys for watching so much uh tonya lester we will uh definitely put all your information in our episode and on our website and you guys we will see you next week thanks for for watching. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

And with that, we're wrapping up another episode of the Fucking Feelings Podcast. Thank you all for tuning in and engaging in another intense and real discussion on understanding and navigating through our feelings. Don't forget, we're here each Wednesday bringing you brand new episodes filled with stories, advice, and perspectives to help you handle those fucking feelings. So set a reminder on your calendar, grab your headphones, and join us every week. And if you're interested in exploring more ways to deal with life's stresses, make certain to tune in to our sister podcast. Trauma is expensive. Dive deep into discussions on managing trauma,

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