These Fukken Feelings Podcast© - Love, Resilience, and Unbreakable Bonds: A Heartfelt Journey Through Cancer - Season 2.5 - Ep 108.5

Episode Date: May 31, 2023

Send us a Text Message.Prepare yourself for an incredibly moving and profound episode of These Fukken Feelings Podcast, where the empathetic hosts Micah and Rebecca join forces with the inspiring duo, Ashlee and Michael Cramer, hosts of the widely acclaimed Michael and Mom Talk Cancer podcast. Together, they embark on a poignant exploration of their personal battles with cancer, shedding light on the raw emotions and unwavering strength that have defined their journey.Ashlee opens up about he...

you don't have to be positive all the time it's perfectly okay to feel sad angry annoyed frustrated scared and anxious having feelings doesn't make you a negative person it doesn't even make you weak it makes you human and we are here to talk through it all we welcome you to these fucking feelings podcast a safe space for all who needs it grab a drink and take a seat. The session begins now. What is up, guys? Welcome to these fucking feelings podcast season 2.5. We're continuing to focus on mental health. I am Micah and I got my girl, my new co-host for this season, Rebecca over here. Hi guys. We have with us today, Michael and Ashley Kramer from Michael and Mom Talk Cancer.

Welcome guys. Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. We're so excited to be here. No, we're excited to have you too. We're going to go through some real conversation. We like asking tough questions. But to start off, we feel like no one can sell you like you can sell you. So tell us a little bit about yourself. My name is Michael Kramer. This is my amazing mom, Ashley, and we are Michael and Mom Talk Cancer. We have been through a lot, everything together. You know, I lost my father to cancer when I was 14. She lost her husband to cancer and I was diagnosed with cancer in 2020. So it has been four years after he died. So it's been a journey. We have been together. We've been a duo.

We have gone through a lot. But our goal is to spread love and hope to others. Right. Well, your hair gives me some hope, Michael. Yeah. You know, I was looking at your hair. You kind of remind me of my son because he likes to have his hair all crazy and he's always pushing it back. And he's 20.

So you're kind of really reminding me of my son right now. Thank you. 21. And I do have two other kids. So Michael's the middle kid. He's 21. I have a 23-year-old and a 19-year-old. And we're,

we got really close because my husband did pass away from cancer. And so we were really tight unit. And when Michael was diagnosed, it was in the midst of COVID in 2020 and we got even closer, but it is true that we do have like a purpose with this, with his cancer journey, which became Michael and mom's high cancer. We just started a podcast, you know, sharing this on social media first and then a podcast. with this with his cancer journey which became michael and mom's high cancer we just we started a podcast you know sharing this on social media first and then a podcast and uh we really i think what michael said our biggest purpose has been you know spreading love and hope it's not just

cancer we have talked about this so much that everyone is going through something what he's going through it's hell for a 19 year old to go through what he went through when he's 21, still going through stuff. But everyone's going through something. Right. So it's been such a huge lesson for us. So we're just excited to share. I know you said sell yourself. I'm like, gosh, we don't really ever sell ourselves, though.

Yeah. Let's talk about ourselves. Let's do a little bit. You always better. You got to make sure. Look, there's nothing wrong with being proud of everything you accomplished. Yeah. And the fact that you're sitting here having this conversation with us and you're smiling about it. It shows me that you're definitely about peace, love and just joy.

So that's kind of dope to see. So because of that, it's OK to sell yourself. We'll sell ourselves. Come on. It's a lot of worth in what you're doing you know put yourselves on the back a little bit yeah we celebrate life i mean i think that's what we we celebrate is life you know we try to always celebrate every day yeah and we're kind of the same way we basically started this podcast because i started to realize that we live in a real crazy world. Yes. And, you know, there's such a bad stigma on, how do you say, traditional therapy and medication and those kind of things. But what we wanted to show with this podcast is that there's other ways of healing. And there's a million methods.

And you just need to kind of find your method to healing because essentially it's about life and love. And that it's okay to talk about it too. And that it's okay to talk about it. We've talked about a lot of things. And I think that's hard. We talk about this a lot with Michael because he's at an age, 21, well, 19 diagnosed. It's a hard age for a lot of people to talk about cancer, his age. You know, we think about the younger

children when we think about pediatric, and then we think about older people with cancer, but his age, a lot of the people that we know his age, they don't want to talk about it. And it is a lot, and it's a lot for the family. I feel like as a caregiver, there's a lot of caregivers that don't talk about how much of a struggle it is for them and for the other kids as well. Yeah. A lot of loss comes with cancer. Yeah. There's a lot of loss.

But we, you know, I'm not, I have a thing about toxic positivity. We all do. Like not being toxic positivity. But it is true that in this very difficult journey, we have had so many, like, beautiful lessons. I mean, we call it our beauty and pain because the pain is there. It's not that the pain is not there, but there has been a lot of beauty that's come out of it, which has been, I think that's been part of our message. And we really discovered that, you know, not in the first few months of the journey. The first few months were all about, oh oh my God, cancer, just fight it. That's what I was going to ask you, if it was

hard to see the beauty in the beginning, it wasn't easy, huh? Not in the beginning, I think, but in the beginning it was really difficult just because it was so fast and everything was just, because my cancer was super aggressive so i had chemo and then as soon as i got into remission i had a bone marrow transplant and there was no time to really sorry the stove sorry it's okay no no it's fine so sorry that was my bad. It's okay. There was a noise out there and I got worried.

It's not. It's really funny not to get off subject, but I went to take out trash this morning and someone threw away their fire alarm because I walk up to the trash can and I'm like, what the hell is this beeping? And someone threw their fire alarm into the trash can. I guess they couldn't get it to stop beeping. Oh, my God. That's funny. They could take out the battery? Right.

I was thinking that too. I'm like, is this really a fire alarm? Like, has it scared me? Like, what the hell is this beeping? Is this? Oh my God. Anyway, please continue. But yeah, as I was saying,

basically when I was first diagnosed, it was just really quick. You know, I just had chemotherapy i had to get into remission my cancer was super rare so i had like a 15 chance to survive and the doctors had never they'd seen this cancer once before so once wow they were like what type of cancer again hepatosplenic t-cell lymphoma there's like less than 200 documented cases. Super rare. So immediately they were just reaching out to doctors across the country and they decided my treatment protocol. And as soon as they decided that, it was just like, let me get the chemo.

Let me get my bone marrow transplant. And then we'll see what happens after that. And it was just so quick. And it was actually after my transplant, I developed a bunch of complications. And that's what I live with today, like chronic illness called GVHD. That's why I'm still in the hospital getting treatment every week. But I'm out of the hospital. I'm at home outpatient now. So there's a time when I was admitted for five straight months. Oh, wow. And that time, we had a lot, a lot of pain, but we found the beauty in the pain.

And that's really when our message became love, because in the hospital, we came so close to the nurses. We came so close to the doctors. And I had a drain in my liver. At one point, I had a drain in my gallbladder. So I was super uncomfortable, always in some sort of pain. But at the end of the day, there was always something good that would happen. Like we would have a nurse come in and sing us a song or write in our day or somebody would write in our day. And I think that that's where we found our message.

And that's when we really saw the beauty and the pain and all the love that came with such a difficult journey. I know. And it's sad that it takes someone like me or like, you know, people in our audience to kind of hear the message. You know, it's like it takes all that to kind of find the beauty in life when we can just see the beauty and love in life. You know, it's like... Yeah, but it's difficult to see that

when you haven't gone through hard times. You know, I was thinking about that the other day. It's true. Like someone who hasn't ever really struggled in their life won't appreciate what they have because they never not had it so you know when you lose yesterday we were talking about yeah like you lose something then you understand the value of it yeah only when you lose something really so speaking of losing things and kind of going back to the beginning, because I feel like your cancer story doesn't start with Michael. It actually starts with dad. Yeah. Yeah. He, my, my husband was diagnosed in 2014 in December. So almost 2015, he had actually a treatable cancer. He had large

B-cell lymphoma, which is normally chemo can do the trick, but the chemo actually was too much for him. And 17 months after he was diagnosed, he died. I didn't expect it. Right. You know, like I really, really thought he went through chemo the first time and they said, you're in remission. And now as someone that's been through cancer longer, I understand. Because when I say to someone, Michael're in remission. And now, as someone that's been through cancer longer, I understand, because when I say to someone, Michael's in remission,

they're like, oh, my God, that's amazing. I'm like, well, yeah, there's other things. But it was kind of when Patrice went, my husband went through it, and he was in remission, we were like, yay, it's done. But a few months later, he relapsed, and the chemo was too much, and he passed away. He was at home. He was in the hospice, a very brief hospice.

It was 10 days. And the kids and I, we were with him. So Michael was 14. My other son was 16. My daughter was 12. And we were actually with him when he passed away. We were, it was in the morning. I mean, it's the clearest memory ever.

We were hugging him. We were holding him. We're literally saying, I love you. I mean, it's the clearest memory ever. We were hugging him. We were holding him. We were literally saying, I love you. I love you as he passed away. And it was very hard, but it was beautiful. Right. You know, and he, it was very beautiful. Right.

And I had three young kids and I was by myself. So it was kind of like, okay, we have to keep going. And he wants us to keep going for the kids. I mean, there's no giving up. There's no summer the boys my two sons were on the olympic development team for windsurfing and they had trips planned to europe and i was like no you're you have you go you're not going to stay home and not go and not live life your dad wants you to live life and you have to go and my my daughter same thing was a dancer. She actually had a performance two days after he died. And I was like, it's up to you. You don't have to, but she went on stage and performed. And, you know, we have gone on with life,

but it definitely brought us very close. And I really thought in my head, I was like, wow, okay. Life taught us this incredible lesson. And what a gift. And then when Michael was diagnosed, I was like, what? Do we need another lesson? Do we need it really? Like, okay. I feel like I learned it. I was like, gosh, okay. But every lesson, every thing that you go through, this has been different because with my husband, it was more our personal story. You know, he went through it. We went through it as a family, but it wasn't something that we really shared with a lot of people. And when Michael went through it, we didn't consciously share it.

But I think it was more that I shared one video on Instagram when he was, we we've told this story before his friends, his, his brother and their tight group of friends. There were six of them. They shaved their heads when he started chemo and his hair was like falling out. And we, I posted this video and like, there was this huge, just like outpouring of love. The community was just like so supportive. And then I think that gave Michael kind of the feeling of it was just organic. We started sharing on Instagram and TikTok. Michael more on TikTok, me a little bit because I'm old, but I do TikTok. And then I just joined recently, too. And it's like awkward.

It's fun though. If you take it for what it is, it's awesome. So it was just very natural. And we wanted, we did the podcast because we just felt like we had this purpose and not that we didn't have a purpose with my husband, but I think it was just, it was different. It was more personal. And I think that's the other thing about these stories and everyone going through something sometimes you go through something and that's your personal pain and your personal that's fine we do want to share because we just felt it just happened and we

just really felt this purpose to share and it happened naturally we didn't force it and like being on this podcast starting our podcast we've had the opportunity to start speaking at different cancer events. But I think it touches people. That's not just cancer. Michael, I know you agree. Your friends that are not going through cancer, my friends that are not going through cancer are touched by it. So it has been a long. And when I think about it, you know, I remember my older son when Michael was diagnosed.

One of my friends emailed me and was like, let me help you. Let me do something. Let me start a meal train, something. And my older son was like, Mom, I don't believe in bad luck, but you've had some bad luck. And I was like, well, it's not bad luck. But he's like, take some help. But it became that the help became us helping other people. Like we received and then we

wanted to give back you paid it forward yeah but it becomes this cycle and the more you give the more it i know it's so corny but it really it's been one of our mantras like we had certain things on the hospital wall and one of them was it's not what happens to it how it's how you react and another one is the best way to help yourself is to help others and i think that not being corny but those became like our two of our mantras like these things are happening to us we they are out of our control and a lot of times we want to say why is this happening i need to know why we don't know why and we're just like okay we just have to accept it there's not a why so accept it but we don't have to accept how we react we can choose that part definitely and i think that's been our message and and helping has helped i mean i've

seen it with michael i've seen but i see it with myself you know the minute you start to go oh this sucks but if you can reach your hand out to someone else, it just, it lifts your, it lifts you up. Right. So now was there ever a time, sorry, was there ever a time in the beginning where like, like you hated something for the first time, like cancer, like I hate you. Like, you know, it was like, did you go through that moment with your husband and then again with your son? I'm going to have Michael answer in a second because he'll have a different answer, but yeah. that you go through that moment with your husband and then again with your son i'm gonna have michael answer in a second because he'll have a different answer but yeah so the weird thing is i didn't i didn't go through oh my god i hate cancer i i went through what i went through why

like why why because my husband was healthy like people ask that question their cancers are not even related it was lightning striking twice um we there's genetic testing we've done they're not related at all so that's kind of a weird thing but it was more like the why and then there's a point when you get past the why and you just say okay it's out of my control michael was an was an athlete. You know, everyone was like, oh, sugar. No, didn't eat a lot of refined. I'm not saying never. Come on. They're, they're, you know, teenage kids, but they ate very healthy diets. They were, you know, while he was 19, didn't really drink, wasn't even the kid that liked any drugs. And since they're on the Olympic development team, they could, they didn't do any drugs, like all of these things that you check the box that we did everything right.

And so there was that there wasn't ever, I never felt a hate, but I, I, I sometimes wondered like, why and why is this happening? And, you know, and sometimes I'd be like, gosh, I've tried to do good in my life, but then it keeps turning around because then the minute something would happen, and I feel kind of sorry for myself, we've seen so many other people go through things and, you know, someone always has it better. Someone always has it worse. And I think that we've seen a lot of people go through hard things. That's been, we've lost so many people that we've become close to right you know and the other thing that happened was that michael has evolved so much like we were joking before we

started recording that michael's 21 but he's like 80 right right right right and he says he's like 80 because of all the drugs and the chemo and the radiation that his body's like an 80 year old. And I'm like, no, his mind and his soul are like an 80 year old because of everything he's been through. It's made him like this wise human. And we have just gone through this together. And my other two kids as well, you know, they have a different role in this, but they're also a big part of it. And everyone just like came together. I don't know, but not that there haven't been hard moments. There have been hard moments that we have cried, that we've gotten upset. Yes. We have not been like, woohoo, in the hospital. Yay. When we had the five months straight, there were nights also when he was in for his bone marrow transplant he almost passed away a couple times it was it was hard right of course but um i know you've had moments too like michael you've had we've had the spectrum of a month of moments right

i want you to answer that too because so you want me to answer what was the question again yeah where was there ever a moment you know through this journey whether with yourself So you want me to answer, what was the question again? Hate. Hate. Give us an answer. Yeah, was there ever a moment, you know, through this journey, whether with yourself or with your dad, when it happened to dad, when cancer entered your life that you, like, just hated cancer? Like, it's fuck cancer, and I hate it, and, you know, you're filled with that rage and that anger, you know? Honestly, not really. I don't think it was ever that i think it was for me more when i got cancer i just looked at it like i can't do anything i can't just get mad like i have to go through my treatment so i went through my treatment but it was the complications after the treatment that i still live with and the now that i have a chronic illness because of my

transplant so there were times where i get mad at that happening to me because like i was like all right i already went through chemo i already went through radiation i had my transplant i wish i wish i could have just been fine after and not had the complications so there were times and there still are times like man this really sucks like i wish that never happened but then i'm just like you know if that never happened i would never be here on this podcast i would not i wouldn't be alive you know so it's just it's all just perspective definitely how you feel at the moment where you are mentally what's going on yeah there's days where i'm like yeah i hate cancer i wish it never happened to me but there's days where i'm like it yeah, I hate cancer. I wish it never happened to me. But there's days where I'm like, it's okay. I can't control it. It's life. Right. And now, and then you, you were,

it sounds like you were surrounded by love and you know, you have your mom and your siblings, like, how was that for you? Like to feel that support, you know, like, was that a, of, was that feeding you? And I ask that questions because I feel like sometimes people don't realize how much support someone who has an ailment you know you think that it's second nature but and honestly life happens and people have to work and you know and and do this and do that and they're not always you know they're able to be mom like sorry my question was like 18 minutes long i know i'm trying to think wait no no i understand yeah the support into it i tell him sometimes he does that he just going and going and we lose track it's like i don't know which question to ask the first one or the 30th one

but michael said he got me so you You were asking if the support was what pushed me. Yeah. Yes, definitely. It definitely was because I'm telling you, I would not be here if it was not for my mom being by my side. Like the amount of time she's taken me to the ER when I was sick, got me up when I was feeling horrible. I just know that if I was in this alone, I would have just

probably given up because it was so, so difficult. My mom always lifted me up. She would always be there for me when I was crying, emotional, anything. She was there. Same with my family. My brother and sister were there to make me laugh and visit me in the hospital. So I would not be here if it wasn't for the support. It's not me being a strong person. It's the people around me that are strong. Well, he is strong, but you know what? I want to, I want to just talk about that. But one thing that you said earlier,

because we have also been lucky that from day one, this before you started recording, we were talking about, yeah, it's a place to we need to be able to talk about our feelings. Michael always had a therapist. Like the minute he was diagnosed, his hospital set us up with if he wanted a therapist, he had a therapist. And so that has also been a really great thing for him. And I feel fortunate that he is really willing to talk. So he's had a therapist, not consistently, but when he's needed, he, at one point it was very consistent right now, it's not as consistent, but also he's very good about talking about his feelings. Like he'll tell me this sucks. Like, because of course,

I mean, I'm, I don't want to say I hate cancer, but yeah, of course we hate cancer. It sucks. Right, right, right. Yeah, no, it sucks. And we know so many people that have been touched by it. No, of course I hate cancer. But it's never been like, oh, cancer, I hate you. It's more like, okay, we're going through this crap.

And the other part was, in the beginning, when he was diagnosed, it's true. It was such an aggressive cancer that his treatment was super aggressive. So it was kind of like there was not a moment to stop and think about what was going on. It was more like, okay, we've got to do this and get through it. And we didn't feel strong. We just felt like we were doing what we had to do. And it was very time consuming. I gave up my career to be with him.

That is true. But then again, I have been able to be there for him because we've had a community that has helped me so that I did quit my job and we've had to struggle a lot financially, but we are here, you know, and that has been a savior and being together. Yeah. I, he also shows me the way a lot because he is so open and he is strong is like a weird word because I think sometimes people think strong, like, or strong is also, you know, like a will, like a will, but it's also being willing to be vulnerable. It's also him willing to say, like, this is really hard. Right. And I think that are those are sometimes his moments of strength is when he's willing to say, man, this is hard. My friends are doing things. My brother that I love is out surfing still and one surfing and he can't you know my sister is in vancouver dancing and i'm here so it's he is strong but we do talk a lot we talk a lot and i think that helps a lot and you

know seeing a therapist all the time really isn't all that because you know i did it for two years and my therapist quit on me so Too many of those fucking feelings. Right. It was crazy. I was like, how are you going to quit? So I'm sorry. I just had to bring a little bit of my trauma into this. Please do.

Bring in your trauma. We embrace the trauma. But I'm probably like you, Michael. I talk to my mom about everything. Probably sometimes a little too much. I get it. You need to call your brother that is so funny Rebecca probably he's been waiting to answer a question for 25 minutes

yeah I try to cut in and it's almost impossible most of the time I can't get a word in edgewise but I was just sitting here thinking that the two of you are very inspiring. And, and I think that people, you know, Michael's age, who may have cancer of any kind, whatever kind, probably would feel even more inspired than me by your story. So I really love that you guys are doing this, you know, out there telling your story and being who you are. I just think it's incredible. I really do. Thank you. That means a lot. It does mean a lot. That's why she hears. She don't say a lot, but when she does say it. I really do think that that's what your why is. You know, why you've had to face, you know face that lightning striking twice. It's because of this.

You guys are amazing people who are out there teaching the world what they need to know and supporting the world. Thank you. Thank you. That does mean a lot, but it is true. We just have been given this and we think, okay, if it's on our plate, we have to do something with it. And I don't know. We're just, we've been blessed to have a lot of love. You make me think of my mom a lot because I just,

I love, like my mom is a strong woman, so I'm just used to strong women. So sometimes I'm so used to strong women that when a woman is not strong, I'm annoyed by it. Oh, is he? Yeah, I'm like a little annoyed by it. Like, are you having a weak moment? And I say that to say, because you talk about lightning striking twice, but lightning can be very beautiful, especially just looking upon it. And it kind of made me, I guess, just you talking to you guys, talking together and talking about the beauty in life. And I was thinking for Michael, it kind of probably, you know, it's like, I can see being in your situation and not really see, but imagining

being in your situation and seeing all this love around you, you know, it's like, it's, you're in this darkness, but there's so much light around you. And then for mom, you know, it was pretty dope to be able to see like that's my child fighting the way he's fighting. Like, you know, so it was like it's, you know, I guess I can see why you said it wasn't a hate because you didn't have time. It's like it happened so fast, ma'am. It's worse. It's bad. And but then it's like when you do have time to think about it all you can see are the positive things you know the the strength the fight the you know the nice nurses you know the people we wouldn't have met so you know in this and you guys teaching lessons and being inspired it's kind of put that image in my mind. And it's like, wow, I don't have kids and I don't want any.

Number one, I'm scared of having a Michael. Sorry, it sounds horrible. But and then my other reason is because the first time a child talked back to me, I'm going to jail. No, because when you're a parent, something magical happens and you just control it. It is amazing. Rebecca can tell you that. Exactly.

So I'm thinking, Michael, what do you do for fun? What do I do for fun? That's a good question. What do I do for fun? I do this stuff for fun. A lot of fun. I used to work out a lot, but now I can't work out a lot because my joints are all basically destroyed. I need knee replacements and elbow replacements.

He's not exaggerating. I'm not joking. The treatment has left a lot of... I was at PT today, but I recently have been playing guitar. That's what I've been doing for the last month and a half. You know how or you're teaching yourself how? No, I am learning. He's learning.

On your own? No, I have an instructor. Oh, okay. I was very good. Yeah, I'm not. It's hard on my own. So do you sing? You sound like you could have a good singing voice.

No, I'm a rapper. He does rap. Well, we do rap. My son raps too. You rap on TikTok? No, we rap on YouTube. We rap on rap on youtube we rap on youtube and it's actually michael and mom so you guys dance you one of those videos you two dancing and i don't know if i i heard the rapping but i did see the dancing it is pretty crazy you guys are amazing dancing lots of videos of us dancing especially dancing. He was really getting down.

Well, we have a YouTube channel and it is true that we are up to like seven raps now. There may be an album dropping soon. When you're ready to drop your album, I'm going to start a music company and we're going to call it the fucking music company.

Oh my god. It's perfect. I'm going to start a music company and we're going to call it the fucking music company. Oh my God. It's perfect. I'm going to send you a rap. Okay. So you write your own raps, I assume? Hospital raps. I mean, about the hospital experience. You know what? I'm going to

tell you what happened. Is that at one point, as Michael said, he went through his bone marrow transplant. We thought he was going to be okay. After the bone marrow transplant, he had a lot of complications. He was admitted to the hospital in and out of the hospital for a good nine months and then admitted to the hospital again for five months straight last year. Well, it's been a year now that we've been home actually. And during that time he, he did, it was like, if there was a darker period, that was the time. And we're lucky we had each other.

I was with him every day. But someone came in and was like, do you want the music therapist to come in? Michael was like, well, let me think about it. And I was like, dude, you and I walk in the halls in the hospital and we make up raps as we're walking. I was like, let's just make up a song for fun. And so while we were in the hospital, we made up this rap and then I was like, let's do a video. And so I shot a video and then I just did it for us at the hospital, like for the nurses and the doctors. And then we did another one because it was something creative and fun. And we took those experiences and we put it into something,

you know, fun. And so we continued and we did one when we came home, like the rap that we're home from the hospital and explaining one of his complications, we did a rap. So it's just, it kind of humanizes what we've been going through and it's fun. And it brightens somebody else's day. I'm sure it might've even brightened the nurse's day. Oh my God, the nurse's day. It's all just a face in a day. Yeah. And just shout out to nurses.

You guys are amazing. Thank you so much for what you do. We can shout out to our nurses. Like literally saved us. I mean, we're really blessed because Michael was diagnosed at 19. And so he was in between pediatric and adult. And thank goodness he was at a pediatric hospital because this was in the middle of COVID and in adult hospitals, people were alone. I know you've heard, I'm sure people,

everyone has heard stories about people being alone. And at a pediatric hospital, they let me be with him. They would let a mom and a dad. So they would even let my other, his brother come like he was dad. So, and they would sneak in my daughter, but being at a pediatric hospital, it's true. We had such relationships with the nurses and his doctors too. You know, if there's any gift about this cancer being so rare, one of the things was it was really interesting case. So we had a lot of people following Michael and caring about him. I think they would have cared anyway, but it definitely as hard as it was, we had a lot of people spending a lot of time and giving him like the best, the best they could spend so many gifts. I can't even count them all. As I talk to you, I just think more and more. You've just been so blessed and people are good. That's the other thing. I

just feel like people want to do good. Sometimes they do bad things, but I think people are good when they're given the opportunity because we've really seen that people rise up around us. Definitely. And that's actually pretty dope. And I guess a pretty dope lesson because I've been sitting here and I'm listening to it and I'm like, okay, we're 30 minutes in and this has kind of been real, real positive, you know, and I was, but it just goes to mind to show like how grateful you guys are for everything, you know? And it's like, when you look at it, that's kind of what you see. You see the grace and both of you guys sitting there is like, you know, it was like, okay, if I didn't believe in God, I see God in this moment, you know? So it's kind of just teaching a lot. And can I ask about faith? Are we faithful?

So both of us are very spiritual. I should let Michael answer for himself. We're both very spiritual, not Christian Catholic, although I grew up that way, but definitely spiritual, definitely believe in, you know, I do believe in God. You know, I think that we've had God in our lives. We've had prayers, we've had mantras, we've had so many people sending us energy. And we definitely believe that. I do believe there's a higher purpose and they, it's hard to say sometimes, but I, you know, people say, oh, things happen for a reason. And sometimes that's one thing that you're like, oh man, I wish someone would stop saying that to me. You know, I always answer, my response is whose reason? Yeah. Yes. Whose reason? But then

we're like, okay, so flip it upside down and take it's not what happens. It's how you react. So then you can turn that into, okay, so I'll make it into it happened for a reason. And we have felt that very strongly. And I think there is more than just this body. There has to be. So, and I should let you answer on your own because you're 21. No, I completely agree. I wasn't raised Christian. We weren't going to church religiously, but I do believe in a higher power and I'm very spiritual. And I do believe in all the prayers. There was a lot of people that we met that were extremely religious

that would come into our room and pray for us. And I felt that love. And I think it's amazing. And the energy exchange and just the positivity. But I kind of wanted to go back to the beginning and talk about when Michael was diagnosed. Wait, one second before we go back that far. I just want to know what,

like when Michael's resting or off on a therapy, what do you do, Ashley, to take care of yourself? Like, oh girl, whatever. I mean, you've got to be able to do something for yourself, right? I also like, I run. I like to dance. I like to do yoga. I like to go for walks on the beach. So those are my things. I was waiting for the 90s love hits to come on. Oh, you know me. You were describing a commercial and I saw it. And it's like the world's greatest love songs.

No, but this is what happens is that the music comes on and I will literally throw myself a dance party. But no, I mean, through all of this, you must have, I mean, take care of yourself in order to be able to take care of others. That is what we all say. And that is a hard thing for caregivers. And it's what I try to tell other caregivers as well. I think that sometimes when you're on the outside, you say, oh, you have to take care of yourself. And what happens is what I encourage other caregivers to do is don't think you have to go spend an hour by yourself. But even if you can have a minute that you can just breathe. And actually, every morning, the first thing I do is get up and I meditate. And, you know, that helps me a lot. And it's like one of my favorite things to do.

And my cat comes and she lies on my chest and that's like our routine. And I like to work out, but I think that sometimes there were times when he was in the hospital and things were not good, just going and taking a shower and being in the shower and things were not good, just going and taking a shower and being in the shower and feeling the water for, you know, two minutes, that would take care of me. And I think that is sometimes my message to caregivers is that we can't always like go, okay, I'm going to go have a spa day. You can't always do that. But if you can do something, and you know, I, I've, I used this analogy before, and I'm just going to give it to you because probably some people listening to this have not heard this, but everyone does always say, you know, I used this analogy before, and I'm just going to give it to you because probably some people listening to this have not heard this, but everyone does always say, you know, the airplane, you have to put the mask on yourself before you put it on your kid.

And everyone says, caregivers, you have to put the mask on yourself. How can you take care of someone else? But I'm going to tell you right now, every caregiver I know does not put the mask on themselves. They put it on the person they're caring for first. And that, I think, is okay. You just gave me another reason why I don't want kids. Stop it. That's number three to be added to my list.

I'm getting a mask first. If you think he's funny now, try seeing him around. Oh, my God. We work together, too. That's so funny. Well, you know, you was talking and I was thinking taking care of yourself looks different depending on what stage you are in life. And I think that it's okay for people to realize that, you know, it's okay to know, cause it's kind of true. You know, I can, I can never imagine being a parent and then I kind of

had bad genetics. I was a sickly or still am sickly person. I deal with my own ailments. Um, but it's like, I, it's like, I don't know. So because of that, I didn't want natural born kids. So I thought I would adopt. And that was my idea. And then I was like, okay, I'm going to go for like foster and do older kids because it really bothers me that there's people in this world that doesn't know what true love is. You know, it bothers me. So I'm thinking about, okay, I want to foster some kids. But then it's like, wow, you have to learn to love a person past their pain, you know? And it's like, can I do that?

And the fact that I questioned that is enough for me not to bring a kid into my life right now, because I feel like as a parent, you'll never have that question. You know, as a parent, you know how to love your kid past most of their pain. As a parent, it's really not a question you ask yourself. Right, right. Okay, okay, Rebecca. It's just, it comes natural. as a parent it's really not a question you ask yourself right right okay okay rebecca it's just it comes natural but i think going back to what you were saying well first of all it is beautiful that you've considered fostering and adopting michael will have this conversation with

you he says the same thing he's like even if by some chance i am fertile do i really want to pass on my genetics? He has the same. We've had the same. He's like, no. But I got to ask you, what is your sickness? I know. I wanted to ask, too. I want to hear about this.

If you want to talk about it. I know. Are you okay to talk about it? Yeah, I'm actually fine. So I kind of grew up kind of sickly anyway, but I'm actually a cancer survivor as well. I had leukemia. Oh, good. Yeah. basically anyway but i'm actually a cancer survivor as well i had leukemia and yeah he doesn't like to bring it up when we talk to cancer patients because he doesn't want to take anything

away from our guests how are you taking anything away no i like i want to talk about it yeah how old were you um i was i think 25 and i also well I kind of just had regular leukemia, whatever that is. It was nothing special about the actual cancer. What was special was what my endocrine system did because of the cancer. So I ended up with a major chemical imbalance. So, and it's like, how are you able to function with your chemicals the way they are? So I kind of had a pretty unique case and got to meet a lot of people and go through a lot of treatments and therapies and those kinds of things too. So I got all the blessings that you guys talk about. And it's kind of crazy. The only difference was that I, I didn't talk much to my family about cancer. Even now we really still don't talk about it. Wait, how old are you?

I am in my forties. 44. You don't look like it. I thought you were 28. I know. I thought you were literally, when you said 25, I was like, dude, how old are you? It was like yesterday? Yeah. No, I wish. Sometimes I feel like I wish I could go back to. Actually, I had a really long battle with all of this, and I'm still battling now.

It's been 14 years or 15 years. I lose count. But I'm still battling the chemical imbalance. You know? So it's like I just had a bone marrow transplant. I mean, a bone marrow biopsy on Thursday. You just had one? Yeah.

I'm still waiting on results. Yeah. And he says just about every day that he's, what, you say you're pregnant or you're carrying? So basically I went through where my like, I want to explain it correctly because

someone's going to like check me on it, but it's like my dominant hormone became HCGs, which is like what they consider the pregnancy hormone. So I know it's like the hormone that protects the placenta during pregnancies, but you know, it's also what they use when they like determine how far along a woman is in her pregnancy and those kinds of things. But so I go through a lot of pregnancy symptoms.

You know, like I want an onion and Oreos. You know, and I'm like... I never wanted an onion and Oreos when I was pregnant, but okay. You know what's pretty disgusting? Tuna fish with Oreos. But I wanted tuna fish

with the mayonnaise and crumbled Oreos on top of it. Right. I don't know. I don't know, man. Well, we we told Michael a lot of the side effects he had were like pregnancy side effects. I was like, dude, everything I went through, you are going through it now. He had hormonal issues, adrenal gland failure, because he was also on steroids for a long, long, long time, which left a lot of side

effects. But it sounds like you are still going through it. He's still going through other things. You guys, well, you're beautiful though. Thank you. You're a beautiful pregnant man. And look, I was going to say that, use that to to my benefit right because um so rebecca here is a mom she has three kids and then we have our producer back there go ahead and turn on your camera for us crystal she she back there pushing buttons not doing a good job on it but crystal oh hi i like the background the japanese background. Beautiful. Wow. So this is Christa, our producer, and she has 28 kids. 28? No, really. She has four, right?

It's four. Okay. It's close. If she has a grandbaby, I'll always count the grandbaby too because she looks like, once again, she looks like she's 20, but she's 48. Wow. Oh, my. You're actually a grandchild? Yeah. but she's 48. Wow. Oh my. You actually have a grandchild? Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Wow.

It's because she expresses her feelings on this show and she expresses her feelings and gets it out so then she can just be beautiful. Well, yeah, you're right because she cries real ugly and I do have it on. Look, I have it on tape so it's blackmail. Oh my God, that is so funny who cries

pretty who cries pretty i do actually no i cry pretty too every nobody except michael michael cries pretty okay tears of gold i don't know about that but i was trying to say these two you know tell me how hard it is to give birth. And I was like, imagine being pregnant for 15 years. Imagine that is actually true. I mean, I love being pregnant, but I don't know if I'd want to spend 15 years there. Right. I'm like, I'd be glad when I had this little alien baby. Like I just want to give birth. I can just imagine it, right? A little alien baby. I i hope he going mint green oh my and i'm gonna carry my little baby around this is what we deal with every day

of a week every day he's funny he's funny it could be way worse i can get exhausting i i yeah i'm sorry i am a lot like you guys i found a a lot of comfort in life and love and laughter. I mean, I used to have chemo parties and I used to do chemo with kids also because leukemia. So I used to go to leukemia centers and most kids are at leukemia centers. So I used to have little chemo parties with them and we go in there and we'll crack up and, you know, do things. So laughter was like a huge medicine for me we understand because we would have dance parties in our hospital room literally people would come in our room they would be off like it would be eight o'clock at night when they would switch shifts and the nurses would come in our room and the and the residents and we would

just put on music and have dance parties so i I'm telling you, we can relate to that. And it helps so much. Not that every day was like that, but we had those joyful moments. It changes everything. Sense of humor, you with your sharks. Yeah. There was a nurse. I had a bond with one of the nurses.

She would give me, because when I was getting, there was a chemo I was getting, and I was really nervous to get it because it could cause a reaction. It was called, it's short for PEG. So basically the nurse came in and she was talking to me and she was like, oh, so what do you like to do? I was like, oh, I like to go to the beach. And she's like, oh, I don't go in the water because I'm afraid of sharks.

So for months and months when I'd be in the hospital, in and out of the hospital she would always talk to me about sharks and i would tease her about how she's afraid of sharks and she wouldn't go in the ocean because of sharks and she would give me shark homework when i was in the hospital like crossword puzzles about shark kinds and like these fill out answer sheets about sharks from the internet it was just really funny. We had this great bond. Yeah.

Just like the little things like that that kept us going and showed us the love. Go ahead and give us some love right now. Shout her out. Oh, that's Val. That's Valerie. We love our Valerie. She's amazing. We're still close with her.

She's amazing. You know what? Me, I kind of look at the world right now and I'm like, oh, we just live in such a horrible time, you know? And then I hear the story that Michael says, and it was like, wow, a person actually went out of their way to find shark stuff for a complete stranger. Well, I think sometimes you find what you're looking for. You know, if you go out there with the mindset, we live in a horrible world, you're going to find a horrible world. If you go with the mindset that we live in a good world, you're going to find the good in things. Very well said.

And trust, I'm still in my journey in life. So I am taking on a lot of knowledge, too. I'm going through. I said I never got to go through like the hard-headed 20s because of my ailment. So now I'm being a hard-headed 22 year old oh no that worries me because i always say my kids didn't go through their bad teen years because that's when their dad died it's gonna happen no don't tell me you're gonna quit his his million dollar job to work at the local cafeteria making 20 an hour because he likes the kids like good luck oh my god that is football

there first right i uh packed up everything i ever knew in my life into my little nissan altima and i drove 10 hours away and that's how i met these great people and i just decided i'm gonna drive until i find something that feels good and that's great yeah but i feel like that's a teen move like you ain't probably doing that in your 40s no that's amazing you don't have like you didn't you don't have kids that is one thing about not having kids like do it that's a what that's amazing that you did that that's so courageous and you know searching and looking for a place that you're happy. I think that's beautiful. Right, right.

And that's kind of my whole state right now. Like I'm just in this state of, it's one thing that is pretty cool about this podcast because it's like crazy. It's like you talk to people and sometimes they're life-changing. Well, I can get something from everybody. And you guys, like my mom, my level of respect for my mom is like at all new height you know because to be able to sit there and watch your child basically they're telling you your child's gonna die i'm not a parent and i don't want to be a parent because you have to love somebody past their pain so you have to have a capability of love that is so far behind that it can actually erase

somebody's pain. And you know how many times I'm wrong. I think that's what makes it amazing. I think being able to love someone beyond their pain is the whole purpose. And that's the whole risk. And that's like what comes with relationships, with friendships, with intimate relationships as well. And that's what you're giving. You're giving love.

And you have to give it. And sometimes there's going to be pain. But I think that that connection you have with your kid or whoever it is is worth the amount of love that it could actually cause pain but it's just worth it to have it life is short i mean life is you have learned that lesson as well i had a question you you said something and it confused me a little bit you said a intimate relationship what is no i mean like if you have like a girlfriend or what a boyfriend i mean like it's really like it's worth having the pain of eventually having a heartbreak to feel the love that was given in the relationship just like how it is when you have

a kid to feel that love with the kid and that bond with the kid even if your kid one day passes away like it's worth having at least had the experience of feeling that and to not go for it at all it's like my mom and i we talked about like you know you can give your heart to someone and you end up getting your heart broken but it's better you at least gave your heart and didn't just not give anything better to have loved than to yeah exactly it's better to have loved and lost than ever to love but you know what and it's easier to say that it's still hard right it still takes a lot of courage and it's still hard but it's definitely worth it's definitely worth it like it's you know it's like it's worth it you know i know like i'm in a weird point in my life like i said i'm just in my search

you know i was like for so long all i knew was what it was to be sick you know my whole life my first um i was 16 i got a gillian beret syndrome okay i don't know what that is yeah it's like a weird it's like a nerve disease but so we look at this cord and your cord is like this this your nerves are like this cord it's all right and but if you strip this and you touch it you'll get like electrified and that kind of stuff. Your nerves are the same way. So what it did was it ate all the coating off the nerves. So now the nerves are touching the bones.

So you kind of go through that electrifying thing. So I was like paralyzed from my neck down for a little while. Oh my God, Micah, you've been through it. Jeez, we're not going to make this about me though. The story is still on. But you are the epitome, like, look at you, you're doing this podcast. So even though you're being sarcastic and funny and a little tongue, but you are tongue in cheek because this is you look at your purpose is doing this podcast and sharing these stories. So this is totally affected you and who

you are and it's beautiful. And I'm just going to go with that because even if you're sarcastic and you tell me you don't want to have kids, I bet you, I'm going to look you up. And in 10 years, you're going to have like 28 babies. Oh, I plan on it. I kind of, I want forever. Like I know I don't want my own trust. You know, it's like my genetics. I don't know what that's going to do. I'm just going to keep it with me, you know? So that's genetics i don't know what that's gonna do i'm just gonna keep it with me you know so that's what that's where the joke came from about the intimacy time yes yes yes yes i got you what is that but um intimacy um well michael do you have somebody do you date yeah i have a girlfriend yeah okay and I have a girlfriend. Okay. And it's not recent

now. It's been like six months. Almost six months, yeah. Do you pull the cancer card on her? Of course. Who does he not pull the cancer card on? I'm joking. I mean, if you have it, you gotta use it. Right. Thank you. Thank you. He doesn't have to pull the cancer card because the thing is he still goes to the hospital like four days a week.

So it's like, you don't really have to pull the cancer card because the thing is he still goes to the hospital like four days a week. So it's like you don't really have to pull the cancer card. It's like just there always. Yeah, I have treatment tomorrow morning. But it's okay. But we love her because she accepts. Definitely. And that's pretty dope. And that's hopeful, too, because there's somebody out there for everybody, even me.

So if you want to date me, go to website no i'm just kidding come on i'm sure you got a lot of applications i am sure you do too i am too busy so cute i kind of wanted to go back kind of what we were talking about like people realizing that their the time of their life kind of matters what the time they take for themselves looks like because I'm at that point in my life. I take care of so many people that is like He does take care of everyone. I don't get that.

Now I will make a trip by myself quick. I will be like, okay, I'm going to Miami and I'll be there three days. You're here. You hit us up if you're here. Is that where you guys are? Yeah.

What? We've been talking for 54 minutes and I just found us out. They grew up surfers and windsurfers. I feel like we talked about everything but what we were supposed to talk about. I know, it's okay. It's all good. Is that gatorade zero yes i used to drink that a lot in the hospital

it's my attempt at a healthy life because i have four sprite today so so i'm really though it sounds funny but i um water makes me nauseous really yeah i have like a weird but i'm also allergic to snow so hey i understand there was a time when water made me nauseous and i would only drink that's true like carbonated drinks so i understand and people yeah it's crazy but people look at me and they're like you're gonna die soon because uh everything you have been through right that's what i said i was gonna take me out he you have been through? Right. That's what I said. If I was going to take me out, he would have been took me out. I think so.

I think you're good. But because like you said, it is a purpose. And to me, it's love. It really is love. So it's kind of dope that you felt that way, Michael, and that you said that because I'm like, Rebecca over here texting. No, I'm not texting. I'm trying to find a picture of my son because I keep looking at Michael and I keep thinking of my son Wyatt. And I wanted to show you a picture of him because it's just crazy how kind of similar you guys are. Wait, you have three kids. How old are your kids? Wyatt's going to be 21 this year.

Cole is 19 and Brooke is going to be 17. A girl and two boys like me? Wow. And similar ages. Mine are just like a couple of years older. Well, you have to be like 23 yourself. Yes. Exactly. We're all around the same age. I'm way older than y'all.

That's all I'm saying. How much is way? I'm 54. I must have missed that. I'm 43. 43? You're so young. She has a whole life ahead of her. My co-church said 75.

Under his breath, he's like 75. He's not 75, but his bones are a little bit. You're definitely wise beyond your age. I get it. I always tell people, if I could take my brain because I still want to keep my brain and put it in a brand new body. That's what I said. And put it in a brand new body. Me too. I'll be

overpowered. We literally did a TikTok and I was like, no, but you have to keep the whole head because of the hair like rebecca what you're talking about i was like you can't just take the brain you have to like take the whole head and you can put it on a different body that would be okay i'm a little jealous because i'm like he over here looking like he about to be the new direction he's he's really cute although the hair is awesome and i'm like wearing a hat because i haven't got my hair cut yet i know i'm wondering what your hair is under there

look i'm being petty right you can tell me if it's petty he's bougie but i'm being a little petty because i i have a new barber i had a breakup you know what i'm gonna break up with you had a couple breakups recently no that's had a breakup? You had a couple of breakups recently. No, that's not what I was going to say. Maybe I'm really not a good person. A breakup with your therapist. Now a breakup with your barber who is like a therapist often. Right.

Well, okay. My therapist left me because we became like friends. She felt like we became more friends. Okay. And we didn't have that. But to me, I was like, but I don't want to talk to nobody else because then you got to go to like, you know, know people again. But then she's your friend. And so then you have free therapy.

True that. True that. Or you start a podcast and you invite guests like yourself on and we go through therapy now. Exactly. Rebecca is really here to ask the smart questions. I'm here for the free help. Yeah. I'm going to show you this picture.

I'm going to walk up to the camera. He's probably going to kill me for showing this picture, but you'll get an idea. He doesn't look exactly like you, but you'll get an idea. One second. She's going to show you her sign. When she leaves here, the first

thing she's going to do is call her sign. Right there. Number two. It's really... Okay, there we go. He's so cute. And yes, I see it. I see it.

He has a similar facial structure to the Cheekbones. Okay. He's a handsome man. He's handsome. And I do see it. If we look alike, of course he's handsome. Well. And I do see it. If we look alike, of course he's handsome. Well, he usually wears his hair, like maybe not quite as long as yours, but he loves his hair. Well, you know, Michael went through a lot of bad hair with chemo and then after chemo, it was like pretty bad.

And now it's coming in and it looks good. And so he's like, why not? You know, but he doesn't do anything to his hair. It's just like that. I haven't put shampoo in my hair in his hair. It's just like that. I haven't happened. I haven't put shampoo in my hair in eight months. Okay. So maybe that's why I'm bald.

I'm telling you, don't wash your hair with anything. The bottle says, uh, what it says, wash, rinse, repeat. I know. I always repeat. So you're telling me you don't repeat. He doesn't know he does not you're not supposed to he just rinses it with water and he's like you need the natural oils okay so how does it smell it smells fine it smells good well he takes a shower every day

and uses soap on his body it smells beautiful i i wash my hair with nothing but it just smells amazing i just give off this fragrance ever since I got cancer. I give off this really, you know, beautiful smell. I didn't know radiation was a scent. No, yeah, radiation scent. Radiation scent, yes. People come up to me and they smell my hair and they're like, wow, it just smells so good. but but before he was like blonde straight hair like a surfer and then it came back much darker but looks cool so who cares and he looks like mine come on i have really curly hair and was born i was actually born blonde hair and blue eyes um okay but i have i had really curly

hair and then like the chemo thing happened to me. And then it grew back where the sides are straight, but the top is curly. Nice. You have a little texture. It's not that nice. So I spent like eight hours trying to go out and I spent eight hours doing my hair to go out. And then I end up wearing a hat. It's your pregnancy thing. You know what it is?

I'd be waking up and I'd be like, oh, I'm fat. I'm ugly. Don't nobody want me. Maybe it's his pregnancy thing that his bag has to match his shoes too. Ooh. You know what?

We invited you on and we didn't talk about nothing we were supposed to talk about, right? We did. We talked about a lot of things. We talked about so many things. We talked about a lot of things it was fun but i want you guys to come back because i feel like there's some lessons

if you don't mind coming back we'll come back oh my gosh are you kidding chatting with you was just like fun right and well thanks i could say right you true but thanks but i feel like there's a whole lot of more messages that was supposed to come out if I didn't talk so much, but I just felt comfortable because your energy is so dope. Thank you. And it's kind of, you know, you see the love,

you know, that's our biggest message. You guys have taught me lessons, but one is just my mom. I love my mom. My mom was like my best friend, but it's like, I never talks about my mom. I love my mom. My mom's like my best friend, but it's like side note, he

talks about his mom all the time. My mom is my best friend. Do you hear me? My mom is funny. I love it. I can sit down all day and talk to my mom. So I just moved my mom here with me because I felt like my brothers weren't taking care of her in

Virginia. Yeah. I'm calling them out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. How many are in your family? How many are you? So it seems like a lot. We grew up in a household where my parents welcomed anybody. Okay. So I have like four to 28 brothers. Four to 28.

Okay. My mom had four, but we grew up with so many people. It's so funny not to bring up racism, but we might as well talk about it too. But when people think about racism and stuff, I grew up legit in a house with so many different people like you know it's like so it's like i had someone tell me it was the reason i broke up with my last barber see i told you it's therapeutic i made a comment that i didn't see race i grew up in a household where everybody was like invited and welcome like my mom has been mom to so many

people that's beautiful and it's just always been accepting. And I mean, we, every race you could think of, we had Jamaicans, Trinidadians, you know, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, whites, blacks. Like it was just, it was like a grand central station for people who needed a place to live. That is beautiful. And it was, and it taught me a lot of lessons, but most of the time, I mean, but it mostly taught me just to love everybody because that's all I saw. You know, that's all I saw my mom and my dad do. They just loved everybody, you know.

We talk about, you know, one thing with cancer is it puts everyone. It doesn't matter if you're rich. It doesn't matter your race. It doesn't matter your class. It doesn't matter what country you're from. It doesn't matter. Everyone is on the matter what country you're from it doesn't matter everyone is on the same level and we talked about that his hospital is because we're in miami it's a lot of different cultures in miami so the oncology floor is full of different cultures

different amounts of money that people make but when it comes to it it doesn't matter when you're in a hospital gown and you're a mom walking in the hall, it doesn't, no one cares. It doesn't matter. It's like one of those things, like we are all humans. So I totally get you. I love your mom. I want to meet your mom. Look, I'm with it. I'm coming back to Miami. So we're going to hang out. Yeah, no, my mom is definitely dope and i do talk about all the time but i guess it's because i feel like i have your kind of relationship except that i didn't let allow her to see me really sick because you were 25 yeah a little bit older a little bit older i did a lot of things. If I could change the way I handled my cancer, I would. Because I pushed people away instead of letting people come in. But you can't change it. So all you can do is learn from it.

Right. And then share that with someone else so, you know, the light in you guys who had this relationship where you got to have someone always present and you got to see your son with this incredible strength. Like you legit looking at Superman in that bed. I agree 100 percent. I saw an evolution of, yes, a very spiritual, incredible being. About everything. And I, and I feel like I took that away from my mom, but I, I didn't have the strength to console people. And so that was my problem. You know, sometimes you have to convince people that you're okay. You know, they're going to look at you funny and, you know, and it's, I took it as a burden and I shouldn't have. I should have took it as the love that it was. But I was just so tired from all of my chemo and doctor's appointments and things that I didn't want to waste the energy on trying to tell somebody else I was OK because I wasn't OK.

I feel you on that, too. I think that happens a lot. Right. I get that. But we were together all the time. So I knew. Right. I get that. But we were together all the time, so I knew. Right, right, right. But the love, I love the love you have

for your mom. Yeah. And I know sometimes I feel like she secretly mad at me for taking that away from her. You know? Yeah, but look how close you are now. Yeah, yeah. We always kind of been. That's what matters. Yeah. And I knew, it was like I always knew she was there and I carried everything she taught me with me. You know, it was like, I always knew she was there and I carried everything she taught me with me.

You know, it was like, trust you were there, but I couldn't allow you to see this. Are you okay? Yeah, no, I'm just having my shooting pains.

Yeah, it's okay. No, it happens. Yeah. Well, we're going to list all of your contact information. Please do.

And we will, we're, we would love to talk more. So we'll talk more. Okay. Definitely. And then, um, I am serious about my, some old equipment we have. It's not, yeah. Your address because, uh, we're going to make sure you get the podcast done, right? It's just, it's not the best, but it's going to serve his point.

It's going to move you up to your next level so that you can go your next level. That sounds amazing. Thank you so much. No problem. And we're really looking forward to hearing more from you guys. Your journey is amazing. Your love. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Just what you're teaching people and just kind of, you know, what you taught me, what you taught Rebecca, what you taught Crystal. You know, it's like, it's kind of cool. We're going to sit here like an hour and talk about this episode. Like we always do like, oh, Rebecca's going to tell me I wanted to ask. So you can ask, okay, write down what you want to ask and we'll do another one.

And you'll ask that next time. I'm not going to talk. I'm going to turn my mic off. No, that's not going to happen. I know that's not going to happen. That's like getting me to not talk. You're you're like exactly into a spirit because i'm like rebecca legit is over here like tapping okay let's go the moments pass and a lot of times i have to be like okay can we go back a few minutes to, you know, then I can ask the question about that.

Often we have to go back in order to get my words in. So we're going to list all your contact information at the bottom of our episode. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Definitely be in contact. This was a really fun episode, but I know that we I know that we can get deeper. And but it was kind of cool for people to see that you went through this horrible thing and it was horrible and you're able to laugh about it you know and or not so much laugh about it but just laugh there's a big distinction and yes i

agree with you i agree and it's okay to. It's okay to find those moments to yourself when time warrants. Yes. Talk to people. You can talk to me. I'm going to talk back to you. So you, you know. It is so important to talk to people. Okay, we have to wrap this up, but I just have to repeat what you said, is that I think that that is one thing that people have to also realize is you can be going through hell

and it is okay though to still like find a moment that you're joyful or happy and then don't feel guilty for that either. Absolutely, definitely. Well, thank you guys. Thank you so much. Again, Michael, we're sorry for going past so much.

No, it's okay. We appreciate you guys. Stay blessed. Thank you guys for watching and we will be in contact. Thank you so much. What Stay blessed. Thank you guys for watching and we will be in contact. Thank you so much. What a joy. Thank you.