These Fukken Feelings Podcast© - Navigating The Maze: The Science of Feeling Stuck with Britt Frank | Season 2.5 Ep. 121

Episode Date: August 30, 2023

Send us a Text Message.Join hosts Micah and Rebecca this week on "These Fukken Feelings Podcast" as they dive deep into the intricate maze of human emotions and the puzzling sensation of feeling stuck. Their special guest for this illuminating episode is Britt Frank, a celebrated therapist, speaker, teacher, and the brilliant mind behind the groundbreaking book "The Science of Stuck." Britt offers a unique blend of clinical expertise and heartfelt insights that demystify our emotional tangles...

you don't have to be positive all the time it's perfectly okay to feel sad angry annoyed frustrated scared and anxious having feelings doesn't make you a negative person it doesn't even make you weak it makes you human and we are here to talk through it all we welcome you to these fucking feelings podcast a safe space for all who needs it grab a drink and take a seat. The session begins now. Hello, everyone. I'm Rebecca. This is Micah. And we have with us today, Britt Frank. She is a psychotherapist, educator, trauma specialist, and author of The Science of Stuck. So Britt, you want to go ahead and start right in by telling us a little bit more about all those things?

Thank you for the lovely introduction. So I like my professional bio. Is that what you just said? I'm a therapist. I'm a trauma specialist. I'm an adjunct professor. And then like my sorted bio, my non-professional bio is hot mess of a human, recovering drug addict, recovering really like fully hot mess of a human. So I, my little shtick is I can teach you from both sides of the couch.

I didn't just learn it out of a book, unfortunately. Right. Look, that's why I'm, we're hot messes too. So like the trauma in this room alone, right. But that's kind of why we do this thing is kind of why we do the podcast, because I know that there's people like all of us out there who don't know who to turn to for help because traditional therapy doesn't work or, you know, medicine. For some people it works. I mean, some people, of course, of course. Yeah, yeah.

We don't take it away from nobody. We tell you, find your method. Right. I mean, I see a therapist myself. Me too. It works. I used to, but she quit on me. Oh, dear.

Oh, no. I'm so sorry. Such a likable guy, you know? She felt like we became friends and then it wasn't beneficial for me to continue seeing her. Well, that's like, at least that's ethical that she called it out and put a pause on it versus you're paying someone to like chit chat with every week. So, yeah. But, oh, no. Why? She like scarred me now for life.

I hope you're not good. So yeah, so your book isn't out yet, right? It is out. Yes, The Science of Stuck is out. My new book is not out yet. My new book comes out next summer. Science of Stuck is out now. Available everywhere you buy books.

Yeah, I'm going to get the Audible. Well, it was crazy because I tried to order it from Amazon, and it was like coming in July or some crap. And I was like, oh, maybe it's not out yet. Oh, no, no, no. New one out next summer. Current one out now. Let me know if you have trouble finding it. I'll send you one.

Actually, I do want an autographed copy. Oh, I can get an autograph. But I will pay for it. Gladly pay for it. I just want it to be autographed. Our first guest started it. She said she's going to send me an autographed book. And now all the authors we have, I ask, I want an autographed book. Oh, I love it. You're show and tell. Right. Definitely. So tell us a little bit about your book. because I found as a therapist and as just a human that a lot of like the mental healthy books were geared for people that know they need mental health stuff. Like I have a huge trauma history.

It sounds like you both know a few things about that. Like we know we have trauma. It's not like the, you know, here's the trauma information. I'm not sitting there going, oh, that's not for me. But there are so many people who are stuck, but they might not identify as having trauma, or they might not really resonate with the mental health stuff. But like, I don't care what you call it, everyone with a brain knows what it's like to get stuck with something. And so it's called The Science of Stuck and Not the Science of Trauma, because I wanted it to be a book that you can read, even if you're not like at the ends of the earth clinging on to your sanity. Like I was like, if you're like

normal stress for, I hate the word normal. There's no such thing as normal disclaimer. That was a joke. Normal is a setting on your washing machine and that's it. But if you have just like a general, you know, stress, burnout, whatever, and you don't identify as struggling, you can feel better just because you're feeling okay. It doesn't mean there's not more for you. So I wrote that book for, so it's not scary for people that don't identify as mentally health challenged. Yeah. I mean, it sounds awesome. I know, you know, we kind of talk about kind of what you're saying. I think that people who are our age, you know, we grew up in a household where what happened in this house stayed in this house.

And you don't talk about these walls and, you know, never tell nobody this. You never tell nobody that. Or, you know, my mom, Puerto Rican and strict. And, you know, I didn't want to get the chancla. So I didn't tell nobody my business. But here I am now in my 40s. And I had to swallow that. I know. He tells people that and they always are like, wait, what? Yeah, I thought you were like 25.

Oh, my God. Everybody says that. The last person said 28. I am 44. Wow. Okay. Well, whatever you're doing. Yes said 28. I am 44. Wow. Okay. Well, whatever you're doing. Yes, please.

I am dealing with my trauma. You're dealing with your trauma. You're dealing with being stuck. See, like read my book and your skin will glow just like yours. Yes, he loves people and he shares his love with everyone. I think that's a secret. I do really, really love everybody. I kind of, I feel like some people just can't help who they are when they don't know that they need to seek help.

Does that make sense? It's a very generous way to describe certain people. So I wouldn't disagree. I just get more cynical. But you're not wrong. Right, right, right. And trust, I know there's good and bad people in this, but I also know that I never know the full story.

Sure. So I don't know what happened this day. You know, I was funny. I tell these guys about a story. So I was young. I had to be like five years old. And I grew up in New York City. And we were walking down a block, me and my sister.

And I guess it just had been like some kind of shootout or something because there were like three dead bodies and they were all cops and things everywhere. But the one thing that I noticed was that the guy wasn't wearing his shoe. So while everybody else is like, oh my God, you know, so-and-so. And I'm like, how did he lose his shoe? You know, but that takes me down a darker not darker but it took me down a path like if he would have wore different shoes would he be dead today you know like is it you know so it's like it takes me down that kind of path but because I always thought that way and that kind of was I feel like that was my first memory of my first thought if that

makes sense that totally makes sense it's so important because what you're saying is there's a story there. Like there's a really important, real, probably incredibly compelling story there. And I think people are very quick to want to point fingers and label and blame. And like, as someone who's survived a lot of things, including abuse, like I get it, I wouldn't victim blame. And sometimes you have to look and say, what happened to me was wrong. But at the same time, if it's not happening to you, like we have enough crap happening to us to deal with. So I'm with you. I'm like, assume that what you're seeing over there has a story. And if you can't be helpful, then let's stay in our lane where we can be useful instead of being in the problem. I'm with you on that. Right. When you problem solve at work, you typically think outside the box. You know, that's what we say. Well, Micah doesn't only

think outside the box at work, but he uses that theory on people. Yeah. You know, he looks at a person and he doesn't see that person for just what I see or anybody else sees. He sees that person like all the way through. And it's just incredible. It's true. I mean, most of the shenanigans of humaning, I'm not excusing them, come from people that are profoundly unseen and invisible. So some invisible people collapse. Some people who are invisible act out

and everyone wants to be seen. So one of my favorites, cause I'm a super introvert. One of my favorite party hacks, like if you're listening to this and you're not really a people, people person, if instead of asking someone like the classic American, what do you do question, which is just obnoxious. I always start with when I meet people, what's your story? Cause then they can answer it however they want. Yeah. I'm a super introvert too. And I'm not, I tell people like, if you ask me this question in public, like understand, look, and I'm going to give you an answer. So I need you to have time to hear my whole answer. So for instance, we work at the same office together and I've worked at this company for three years.

He's been there a year. I've gone to the Christmas party three years. He's gone to the Christmas party one year. Okay. Everybody hung out with Micah. Nobody with me. I'm like, people, I've been here three years. Why are you hanging out with Micah?

And how do you feel about that? What does that bring up for you? We can explore this if you'd like. That's what I was going to say. Sorry. That's the reason we brought you on. Because, you know, we need to help Rebecca figure to help rebecca minutes before you came on he's like let's see if she can psychoanalyze your ass in less than five minutes that's funny now i'm

off the clock as a therapist you're cool we should be friends i shouldn't be your therapist absolutely and you don't have a mic a situation that he's going to do. I'm still really hurt by that. He balances things. You know, I don't have to be so wild and crazy. I leave it to him. So now we're going to talk about you. I know you were like a marketing exec or like you did advertisement. That's like a really generous, I mean, technically yes, but no, it was, I'd stood outside and cried and smoked a lot of cigarettes. And then occasionally like while high on Vicodin sent out emails that I got that got approved. So yes, but I was in my twenties and I have no idea what I did, just that it sort of, I faked it enough to not get fired

for a while. Yeah. I think everybody's doing that now in society. No one wants to work right now. Yeah, well, yeah. COVID came in and messed us up a little bit. But what was your change? Like, what was the thing that happened to you that made you decide, this is the path I'm now going to go on?

I wish I had, like, and this is why I'm not like a good made for TV story. It wasn't like everything was bad and then the sun and the clouds parted and now it was good. It was like, okay, when I was 22, I had an inkling that perhaps there were a few things I needed to deal with, but like, I didn't want to deal with them. So then I, you know, bumped up around life and then like a couple of crazy relationships later, it's like, huh, maybe there's some stuff. So maybe I'll just start a casually explore therapy, but lie to my therapist and to myself and not really deal. So it was a very meandering, like my last stop on the, a very long windy road was methamphetamine and that super accelerate. It's like, okay, at this point you deal with your stuff or that's going to be

the end. And I don't know why I was able to like find a way out. Like it's not, some people don't, some people don't survive that journey. I like, it's not like I'm so special. It's just, I was really lucky and had resources and the things lined up in a way that I was able to get out and get what I needed help wise. But that if it's like, what was your turning point? It was like, domestic violence and methamphetamine will bring you to the end of your, your, your crap pretty quickly. What makes you a TV worthy? You succeeded, you got out of that in your success story in your and I honestly, I was gonna say you kind of described

everybody i feel like you described everybody's life story you know i do you know i kind of did the same thing at 22 you know i didn't i was living in new york city having the time i left life being young with friends you know i kind of always been scared of drugs and stuff until now um and it's just marijuana, people. I got a cord. It's medical and it's legal. No judgment. I got a cord. I love him.

She's over here. Now you make me miss my thought. Sorry. Where was I going with that? You were in New York City. You were living. You were partying. You weren't really into it. Thank you, Brett, my friend Brett. I got you. No, it kind of came to a point where it was like, is this how my life is supposed to be?

I remember being on the subway Sunday morning, just leaving a club as the church ladies really don't want to sit next to me with their big hats on like he a heathen, you know. But I felt like your story was kind of, to me, it was like you were describing me. So I'm kind of with her. I think you're perfect for this. And I think a lot of people relate. I mean, I did not relate to the things were bad and then I had a thunderbolt awakening and then things were good. If only recovery was that neat and clean. It was like I had a few weeks of like, perhaps this is going to change. And then a whole bunch of just nonsense and shenanigans. And it

was all over like a hot, stinking, flipping mess. Relationships destroy and whatever. But yeah, once I like got out of that, it's been, it's been really fun not being in that spiral. Did you have a support team helping you out of that? Or were you kind of just on your own digging yourself out? I, along the way, I wouldn't call it a team. I said along the way, I called them like my lamppost people. It's like, okay, this particular person had planted some seeds and like, or sheds, I'm mixing my metaphors, guide lamppost people. She shed some light and I just ignored it. And like over here. And then by the time I was really ready to make significant changes, all that wisdom that I had ignored sort of popped up to the surface. And I'm like, oh, and so, you know, again, I was able to get

some really good help. And then a lot of it was like, I need a place to live. I have no place to live. I'm going to go on Craigslist and hope for the best. I'm dating myself here. I'm going to go on Craigslist and hope for the best and, you know, shacked up with a bunch of random people. And it worked out. They were lovely people that were just like doing, you know, they slept, they ate, they didn't do crazy stuff. And I got to just kind of watch with, like, I never really learned how to human properly. My family looked normal, but emotionally there were some things. So yeah, that's, that was, I don't remember where we started, but that was sort of my thing. So it's not only me. Yeah, I know.

A virtual high five. You answered the question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect. But I know it's like so much to ask, right? Because. Uh-huh. Stop.

Oh, my God. This is horrible. I'm so sorry. I'm going blank all day. That's okay. I'm having fun watching the two of you. I know. Other people are going to have fun watching this.

Everyone who loses train of thought. No, don't ask, please. It'll come back to you. Okay. Well, I wanted to know a little bit more about how you transitioned from that, I don't know, advertising into the college, like for psychotherapy and so forth and all of that. So when I graduate, you know, when you graduate college, you're 22 and you know nothing. And so that was just like a job I stumbled into. And then I couldn't really do that because I, you know, waking And so that was just like a job I stumbled into. And then I couldn't

really do that because I, you know, waking up in the morning and going to sleep at night was just not available to me at the time because choices. So, you know, I waited tables for a really long time. I did odd jobs here and there. And then once I got enough recovery that I had some grounding under my feet and I was stable, this is in my early thirties. I was like, I love this stuff. I don't want to go get a real job. I don't want to go work in the business world. All I want to do is read about, study about, talk about all of this neuroscience, stuck, unstuck recovery, wellness stuff to the point of total being like obnoxiousness. So why don't I just make this my career? And then I, you know, went to school with a bunch, you know, I went to grad school with people 10 years younger than me and just

sort of sucked it up and learned everything I could. And, you know, I would not have done well going to therapy school in my twenties. I was too busy trying to like do me, let alone, I was not going to be helpful to anyone else. But yeah, it was in my early thirties. I'm like, I want to do this full time and I'm a really good waitress. So I've always been able to pick up and move cities and, you know, get by because I have that skill. So I just waited tables, went to grad school and it's been great. The last, you know, after that things tend, you know, things as they tend to do worked a lot better. So being such an introvert, how do you handle standing up in front of people, being that educator? And because I think you, I read that you teach at the University of Canvas, Kansas, Canvas, Kansas. How do you do that being an introvert?

Yeah, here's the secret. I would rather be on stage in front of 1000 people than at a party with 10. It's so much easier when you're on stage, because I'm not interacting. We're not socializing. I'm talking and they're listening. Everyone is quiet and I do my thing. And then it's like the after doing that, like doing keynote speeches. I'm fine when I'm doing the thing. But then when people want to chit chat, I'm like, oh, crap. I don't know how to have basically people think I'm an extrovert because I'm energized and I'm really into what I talk about. But then if we're just like hanging out, I'm super awkward.

I'm not good either. And I'm kind of both because I don't mind being by myself. Like that's my kind of like healing story. I'm not good either. from a Gillian Bray syndrome. And I remember they, you know, they bring therapists into the hospital and the therapist told me that I was there because of things that I did. Oh my God. The injury done by therapists to people would like, I have heard more. I don't think it's, it's rare that someone comes to me as a client without a horror story from a therapist.

And then it was kind of like, and then, you know, and then I kind of went through other therapists who just couldn't, they can't get me, you know, because as you see, like in this podcast, my brain moves a thousand miles an hour and I probably have 462 questions for you. Only think of one right now and it's going to be hang up. I'll be like, oh my God, I wanted to ask her this. But yeah, so, and then just, and then when i finally found a therapist that i liked we end up bonding a little too much and it kind of became i became her therapist oh no oh no no no that is like no bad bad and even now we still he is a good therapist though either way like that is like an egregious boundary violation.

I mean, like you said, she did the right thing when she was like, I don't think we should do this no more. And I'm like, no, but I love you. Sorry. I'll say all the right things. I'll make it right. But I did go. But because of that, it was really, really hard for me to deal with mental health now because like, I didn't, I didn't want to exercise. Like, I just don't want to do that. Like I'm cool with the little body that the Lord gave me. I'm good with this. And don't nobody want me because I got a little bit of titties. Don't want me, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, I knew that that wouldn't be my thing. Now, yeah. Should I be exercising? Cause it's good for you and when you need to be healthy and all the other good stuff. Yes. People, I'm not saying don't work out. I'm talking about

me. What worked for me in exercise won't going to do it. So then I started, I tried meditation and I was meditating about how I was going to decorate my meditation room. So that kind of didn't work. And then, you just knew i did i was like you know what i'm gonna open my eyes everybody gonna be gone because i just did four hours straight and open my eyes and it's 30 seconds i'm like damn i had that many thoughts in 30 seconds oh yoga didn't work for me just solved world hunger i know i love this you know how much billions i could have made if i wasn't trying to do meditation? I'm just joking.

It took me several years. But eventually, my biggest thing that I did was I up and I moved from my childhood area. I just got up and left. I'm like legit. Anything that fit in my car went with me. If it didn't fit, I don't care what you do with it. Throw it away. You know, it was like, I left just a whole life

and just moved. And, you know, it was just like, I drove 10 hours and wherever I stopped, that's where I was going to be. And I found peace in that. Finally, for the first time, I was able to hear my own thoughts. Where'd you land? 10 hours west of New York.

That's why I live in the Midwest now. I'm from New York too. I live in Kansas. You ended up in Virginia. Yeah. And it's like, sometimes you have to get completely outside. What was that like once you got out and started hearing your thoughts? I know it was amazing.

And that was the thing. I, you know, it was like, and then I didn't realize how much people leaned on me. So I never really had time to deal with my own shit. And I'm probably a lot like both you guys, I have some horrible childhood traumas. I was one of those people that was molested from the time I was four until I was 16. And I thought it was normal. I'm over here talking to other kids like, your Uncle Jim don't pull your pants down. Because it was just that normal for me. And yeah, it was crazy. Just think about this you know? And, um, yeah, it was

crazy. Just think about this stuff now. Sorry. I laugh at everything. Right. But, um, but hey, Rebecca, say something. But I guess my point was I finally got, I got like some solitude and I was able to like go within myself and see that none of those things were really about me. You know, that was my biggest takeaway. Like people did these things for me because I was available, but it had nothing to do with me. It had nothing to do with who I was, how I looked, what I said. If it wasn't me, it probably would have been somebody else because they just needed to do it. And not saying that that kind of healed me, but in a way, it kind of helped me start starting to look for life now, you know, because for most of my life, I saw death and everything. I really get that. And I appreciate you sharing that. So thank you. I'm with, I have the same

kind of approach to looking at my own traumas as you do. And some people get really upset and they're like, well, you're victim blaming. I'm like, well, first of all, it's my shit. I get to do whatever I want with it. And second, no, I am not. It's actually more empowering to take that. Cause if it was about me, then what's wrong with me and I must be crazy. And what is it about me? And it's like, Oh no, it's not about me at all. So if that's not, if the, if the, if I am not what happened to me, then like, who the hell am I? And then that's, that was a much better question for me than what's wrong with me. Who am I?

It got me a lot further than what's wrong with me. That's really dope. Yeah. That's a really well said. Yeah. We're going to make t-shirts. Don't worry. We're going to break you off a little something.

We're going to give you a couple of coins. So, um, are you single, married, have kids? Just asking. I have chosen child free and I love kids. I love other people's kids. I love other people who choose to have kids. And I, have you seen Chelsea Handler's Netflix special where she talks about being child free. I'm like, yes! That! So much yes. I am married. I've been married for two years to a normie and it's utterly bizarre. Like, just a normie person.

Yeah, it's the weird like, he eats when he's hungry. He drinks when he's thirsty. He has a drinker. I mean, what? So we have a lot of fun. So I've been married two years, no kids. We have a really cute little dog, but no children. Okay. And I was just asking just to be nosy. You get to be nosy. That's fine. I'm an open book. Right. And that's why I want to know, like, what does your husband think about what you do. It's funny because he, as a normie, I've said to him and our friends

have said to him, well, you picked like a really messed up, a recovering messed up person. So maybe she's like your shadow side or something, but he's very supportive. It's really useful because I'm an introvert. I'm really like, I work for myself. I don't work with a team. And so I need a lot of alone time. And he is also like super into his things. So it works really well where neither of us is clingy or anxious attached. We are both like, hey, you're cool. Now I'm going to go do my stuff and you do your stuff. And it works really nicely. He's very supportive, but he works in like the clean energy, clean transportation arena. So we are not on each other's toes, which I could never be with another therapist. Oh my God. No, no, no, no. I have an interesting question,

actually saying that you're an introvert and then saying that you, I don't know if they're connected. So follow me on this question. Saying you're an introvert and then saying that you want to be alone and do your own thing are those connected such a good question it is a good question it's so good well that's here's why that question is tricky right because you can take 10 people who all love to be alone and it might be that some of them genuinely get recharged and are introverts. Some of them might be extroverts, but because of their trauma or because of depression or because of whatever, like, you know, let's say they're paralyzed from the neck down. Like, I'm sure that it's harder to extrovert and wanting to be with people when that's the situation. So I wouldn't always link wanting to be alone with introversion, even though like that tends to be a thing, but I have a lot of

extrovert friends, which is great. Cause then I just get to hang out and listen to them talk, which is so much more fun for me than hearing myself talk. Oh, and see, I will talk to you all day, but to be honest, I'm kind of introvert too, even though people wouldn't think of, because I prefer to be alone. You know, I just, I guess, I don't know. I feel like this world is miserable. We live in a miserable world. We do. I hate to say it. That know, I just, I guess, I don't know. I feel like this world is miserable. We live in a miserable world. We do. I hate to say it. That's why I think this podcast is important. That's why I think you are important and people like you, because there's methods out here to fix this world and we just need to do it. You know? Yeah. Like it's, it's crazy how messed up this world is.

So when I go outside, if I can make one person smile, I'm going to do that. And because of that, I pick with everybody. The Dunkin' Donuts people at the gas station, in Walmart, the clerk. Like, I mess with everybody. And I do it where it's, like, borderline insulting but kind of funny, you know? So that they have to engage because now they, like, you just don't let me disrespect you? But that doesn't make you an introvert though, right? No, no. I was saying that,

I guess that's my reason for like being so extroverted when I am out and need to be extroverted. But honestly, if it's me staying home, like my friends joke because I'm in bed by nine o'clock. So I get the memes like, uh, you want to hook up now? Like I'm already in my pajamas you know so if i have the option of staying home and going out i'm gonna stay home that makes sense and like with what you're saying if you look out at the world and you look at everything that's going wrong it's really easy to want to hide and isolate so like i have really good, wonderful, awesome, non-crappy friends that I adore.

It's just that because I'm an introvert and a lot of them are introverts, it's great because we hang out, we go deep, we enjoy each other's company, and then we don't talk for months. And it's like having a really big meal that keeps you fed for a while versus an extrovert. My husband's an extrovert, and he is like out and meeting people and doing things and like that totally lights him up, which is great. But, you know, I think people ask me, you know, like, how do you not get depressed doing what you do all day? Because you're hearing the worst of what humanity has to offer as far as what's done to people. And it's like, well, I know that I need alone time to recharge, but I also need, we have to be connected. And I have really, really amazing people in my life

to help me deal with that. I would imagine that I would be angry sometimes at listening to people's stories. Is that ever anything that you felt like anger? When I, early in my career, when I had not the greatest boundaries, but it's really important for me to know my role. Like for, if I was your therapist, for example, like you're cool, it'd be easy for us to just chit chat and be friends. But my job isn't to be angry on your behalf. You have people who love you. It's not my job to be worried for you because you have people who love you for that.

My job is to just hold space for you to hear yourself think without my agenda interrupting it. And I think that's the point of the therapist, really. It's supposed to be. Such a great answer. Yeah, you're pretty dope. Y'all make sure y'all check out Brit. Yeah, because you're really, really dope. That was such a great answer. I was like, yeah, for sure. I like that answer a lot. And I don't mean to keep going back to this introvert thing, but I really like your answers on this introvert thing. And I will leave it alone after this. I promise. No, no. Ask what you're going to ask. Rebecca need help. And

that's really why we do this podcast for the free mental health. And that's why I jumped on this bandwagon because I need help. So I am severely introvert. And I think a lot of it comes from my childhood because I am the middle child between two sets of twins. Oof. Oof. Oy. Oy. Yikes. Okay. Go on. So- I felt like you could have gave us one more. I was- So I was always alone. You know, they celebrated their birthdays together.

They had their thing. I mean, I was, I named my bike for crying out loud. What was your bike's name? Crystal. And Crystal happens to be our producer's name. And her and Crystal are still tight. Sometimes, I feel like sometimes life gives you signs. Yeah.

And, you know, it's like, I don't know people, like they say, it never happens when you want it, but it's always on time. Because you should see her now with Crystal. Yeah, we're good friends. Yeah. Actually, it's funny. They kind of got that mother-daughter relationship. Even though I'm just a few years older than her. Crystal is probably a lot like me where we joke and we play and, you know,

I grab her boobs and she'll smack my butt. She, he does not grab her boobs. Oh, I forgot. We work together. Not at work. We don't do it at work.

So, uh, I might have to edit that out. So you don't see that. Your question about introversion, go on. Yes. So all my, I don't know, till I was, I don't know, as long as I can remember, I pretty much spent a lot of time alone. And that became what I preferred. So now I'm in my relationship with my husband.

I've been married 12 years now. He's very much an introvert as well, but he likes to be with me a lot. And I like to be with him, not saying I don't, but I find that I really need my space. Like I need to go be in my head, either read a book, you know, whatever. And he has a really hard time with it. So that's why I'm trying to find a connection to, I mean, I do, I am depressed. I do have depression and anxiety. I take medication.

I see a therapist. So I'm just looking for a really good, solid reason. That you could be by yourself. That I could be by myself. I'm mad that you're over here about to use bread against your husband. No, I mean, it just makes sense that if this is really how I am and it's not just like, I mean, this is how I am, but he gets mad at me. For your particular situation. Again, I'm not going to therapize you, but I will, I will give you some things to think about. Why do I need my alone time for you is so much less important than how do I get my alone time? Because regardless of whether it's trauma, whether it's child, like it doesn't

matter why right now it's that you need it. Like, you know that you need it. And so like, it's not why do you, why are you like this? It's like, okay, how do we get you what you want with that? Cause clearly it's tripping out your husband. It's like triggering his parts, you know? So it's really hard when two people have like matching triggers. It's really nice when what triggers one person doesn't affect the other person, but that almost never happens. So I would, you know, encourage you to have your beloved listen to, read about some trauma stuff and that your need to recharge your battery is not, just like we were saying earlier, is not about him. It has nothing to do with him. But as a husband, doesn't he have a right to know? I'm not married here.

I'm just asking for calm. That you do have traumas that you're dealing with. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The why specifically is not relevant. But you can frame it to him like, hey, I've been thinking about doing about, therapizing about, and this need to be alone seems to be really important for my healing you don't get into it you know and then then you make

him the hero of the story because instead of you rejecting him you're like helping him to help you right but systems structures like if he knows every wednesday is your date night and he gets you that on tuesday when you want to go disappear with a book, it might not land as hard. Or maybe you should have a date night. Yeah, we typically do. I mean, lately, the past couple of weeks, we've gotten away from it, but we do quite often have date

night. So I guess we really have to be more, you know. Rebecca waits until she's like mad and ready to kill him before she says something. And I try to get her to just talk like awful. No, you're not awful. I'm going to punch you in your face in front of Brit. We're a ways away from awful. You're not awful, you know, but like, if it's on the count, there's nothing wrong with scheduling it. If it's like Monday is my solo date night. Wednesday is our date date night. Friday is our night to be

with friends. Then now it's not like, why doesn't she want to be with me? It's like, it's Monday. That's her thing. So like you should have in a, in a perfect week, you should have a solo night, a date night, a time with your friends night, a time to work on whatever you want night. And if you have kids, that's tough. If you don't, it's becomes a little bit easier. But I so support solo time. Even if you were a party girl extrovert, I would say you need some alone time. To add on to that a little bit is that you need to stop feeling guilty about wanting it. Yeah. You let yourself fall into that guilt and it's like, it's okay to be you. That's one thing I've been trying to preach to her since I met her.

Like, I gave everybody all of me. And then if you don't like it, cool. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I'd rather not have a friend than to lose a friend. So you're going to go ahead and get all of me up front, you know. And she's breaking her shell. Her being on this podcast is a huge thing, but you know, she still goes through a lot of guilt and it's like, stop being guilty

about everything, you know? It's tricky. Well, especially if what you need is bumping up against your partner's triggers. So there's like lots of really good stuff for that particular issue. Like you want to detach and he wants to attach and like all the attachment stuff would be, and they have really awesome apps that you guys could do together too. Oh, that's pretty cool. Okay.

Cool. That way you don't have to like be with him to stay connected. Ask him, how do you like, like I hate texting and my husband knows, like I don't text me. I don't want to talk during the day, like leave me alone all day.

And fortunately he's wired the same. But like if I was someone that needed texting to feel connected and he's not a texter, that would be really triggering for me. So you could ask your husband, what would be a way for you to stay in that connected feeling that doesn't include me having to like physically be there? Wow. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm about to go get me a husband just so I can try some of this. Thank you.

Right. All right. It helps. We leave little, like, I'm just weird. I have like these little toy airplanes and toy cars. And so like,

we'll leave them around the house for each other. And it's like, I just, yeah, like I'll leave one in the bathroom. So in the morning when he's like, I just, you know, like I'll leave one in the bathroom. So in the morning when he's up at five and I'm asleep, he walks in and he sees the airplane on the toilet seat. And that's like, Hey, Brett was thinking about me.

And then when I get up, there's like a car on the coffee maker. And so it's our way of connecting with each other that doesn't require time. So you can get creative with this. You know, what's crazy is I would have never came up with nothing like that. People like you get on my nerves, you know that? Sorry, not sorry. On my nerves, because that was like a dope thing. And I was like, oh, that is dope. That's like dope as hell. But why I would never think of, like, never think of that. That's why I have a job. I wouldn't think of half the things you come up with. So it's true.

I'm like, I feel like I got to prove what I'm talking about here. No, no, no. You don't have to. Trust. I visualize it. I can see it. That's cool. Like, we leave toys around.

And it's easy. And it doesn't take any time or effort. But it makes such a huge difference. Right. So it's like you need to find whatever your toy is. Yeah. I'm going to still do it. That's good advice. Find what your toy is. i'm gonna do it that's good advice find what your toy and i'm gonna tick tock it and yes hashtag science of stock yeah see me i'm a texter like you i just don't want to be bothered when i don't want to be bothered

so i'd rather you text me than call me oh i don't answer my phone like never call me oh my god right to me and that's how i feel too like never call me send me, I don't answer my phone. Like never call me. Oh my God. Right. To me. And that's how I feel too. Like never call me, send me a text. And if it's an emergency, put emergency and I'll call you back. And I know you're going to lose a couple of seconds. And I know that couple of seconds might be your life, but that's not my decision. That is God's. You know what I'm saying? So, um, I'm going to need you to text me first. If you, if your thumbs are broken or your fingers are broken, use your note. Right. Now you can do speech to text.

I was going to say you can talk. All you got to do is Google, send a text. You know what I'm saying? Even if it's your last dying breath, just go ahead and send me a text. I'm going to make sure everybody gets the message. Okay, Bri, I have a crazy question. I think you're fun. I'm going to ask this.

If you knew you were dying, what would you do to people as a prank? Like you were dying today. I was going to say, technically, we're all dying. Right, we are. But I heard this conversation the other day, and I actually have a really cool answer. What would I do as a prank?

Okay, so one of my like trauma things is being embarrassed by like pranky practical jokes. Like I get a really big rage response. I don't like surprises. Way to go. Okay, way to go. I would, if I was dying, I wouldn't do pranks.

I would want every, you know what I would want to do is have somebody organize my funeral before I died so I can be there for it. Because it's so sad that the best things about us are said after we're not here to listen to them. Isn't that crazy? Yes. But that's just on us as humans got to change because we need to start doing it before the funerals. There was an episode of Little House on the Prairie that the woman actually did that just so that she would get her children home so she could see them. I saw something the other day about someone doing the same thing. She was having the funeral for herself because she knew she was dying and she wanted to. I like that.

It's a good answer, but okay. That's my ultimate prank. Hey, everyone, come over. Surprise, we're having a funeral. Now you're saying nice things about me. Please. What's yours? I would post,

I would send a message to all my Facebook friends and put it in chain letter and say if they don't forward it to 25 people, I'm going to die tomorrow. That's really good. Oh my God. Wow. That is really good, Micah. I think that'll be amazing. You are wretched. You are awful. I would have to, but you know what? People who know me know I would do something like that. You know, I find, I don't know. I think that's maybe how I got through my trauma.

With humor. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of humor humor and i know people get upset because they're like you know we we had a rape episode and it was a guy who had they dealt with rape and you know and i was telling my little jokes but once again i was talking about me you know so i feel like when i'm talking about me i could do what i want to with it. I agree with that. There should be no censoring how you interpret your own story. I am a sexual assault survivor too. And with my own stuff, if I don't have a sense of humor, not all the time. There's a time and a place. But if I didn't laugh about some of the really bad stuff that happened to me, I don't know if I would have made it through it.

So if you own the story, you get to do whatever you want with it. If it's not your story, then mind your own business. Yeah. Drop the mic. There we go. There we go. Yeah. Because I don't know. Sometimes I get messages and people are like, you were laughing during the rape episode. And I was like, I was laughing about me, you know, something I went through, you know, like, hello. Right. But I do kind of joke a little too much sometimes. And I think I need to like, kind of start thinking about it ain't always a good time. Defense mechanism, maybe. I don't know. Yeah. Cause I'm like, maybe it's not a good time to be joking. Well, I think that's kind of, you bring that to our podcast. So you bring that element.

And I think a lot of people might look for that in our take on how to handle mental health. Well, it's needed. Otherwise, this would be totally a drag. It would be so depressing if it was just like, and then I'm seeing for myself. And then I was assaulted. And then I was assaulted. And then I was addicted. And it's like, I take my trauma seriously, but we have to be able to laugh about this shit. Really.

Sometimes, what they say, laughter is the best medicine. Sometimes. If it's not, I'd probably still be crying for all the shit I've been through. But it's like, even with that, once again, I don't know your story. So, you know, it's like, if you want to laugh about it, cool, I'm going to laugh with you, you know? But if you want to cry about it, trust, I'm going to cry with you too. I'm just one of those people. I'm never going to let a person

cry for themselves. I'm a social crier. Yeah, she cries. We can have an episode just for her crying through the whole thing. So that's why I try to bring laughter to it. But I want to talk about people out here in our world who are hurting right now. Give them some advice. Drop some jewels on them, Britt. Well, this is my big thing. There is no such

thing as a crazy person. It's not a thing. You may not know what's going on. You may not know why you're doing it. And I'm not saying mental illness isn't real not know what's going on. You may not know why you're doing. And I'm not saying mental illness isn't real. Like I take psych meds. I see a therapist. Like I get it. Your pain is real, but crazy is not a freaking thing. So I used to be like, oh my God, I'm so crazy.

Why do I do this? It's like, whatever your thing is, like, I don't care what your thing is. You are not crazy. Like I can't give you the, here's why it's happening or here's how to stop it. But sometimes just knowing that like your brain's on your side and even your most messed up stuff, like can be changed if you have safety and choices and resources and you're not crazy. Like what if the problem isn't inside you? What if the problem is like, there's a quote, I don't know who said it. Cause I would be, I'm big on credit, but like, you know, like when a flower doesn't bloom, like you don't blame the flower. You look at the

dirt, like what's going on in the environment. And so it's really important to know that like, we have to take accountability for our bad behavior. I'm not saying give yourself a pass, but like, you're not crazy. You're not the one person that's incapable of change. I promise. I've heard that. I used to say that like, nope, I'm just so bad. I'm the worst of the worst. Nothing could ever, it's like, nah, if you're a human with a brain, things can change, period. All right. That's really good advice. Yeah. It's almost like there's no evil or good person. It's the person makes bad choices. Yeah, it's like the actions.

The actions, yeah. Which is a hard sell for people who are in early recovery from other people making bad choices that interfered with their safety and all their well-being. So that's why I'm like, don't worry about whether or not that person is evil. Let's focus on you. And if you're like, I'm an evil piece of shit, it's like, if only it were that simple, it's like, you're not. So what do you want to do about it? And like the best, the best intervention for anybody, wherever they are is what are my choices? Cause not everybody has the choice to go on meds or to go to therapy or to be in a safe place or to drive 10 hours away from their childhood home. But like, ask yourself, what are my choices? And of those, what am I going to say yes to today? Not next year,

not after I buy the shoes, not after I have the gear. Like, what can you do of your choices? Your choices might suck, but it's almost never the case that people have no choices. They're just like bad ones. But like of the choices you have, what can you say yes to today? And then that's where you start. It's not great, but it's a starting place. And any place is better than being stuck. Right. It's funny because one thing that you said or that you touched on, which we actually been hearing a lot lately, just talking to people is safety or feeling safe.

I feel like that's honestly the first step, you know, like get to a place where you feel safe or, you know, you can at least be safe with yourself. Yes. Like when I was leaving one of my many violent, crazy making relationships, like I would go to my therapist and be like, help me, I'm depressed. And she's like, no, Brett, you're being abused. Like there's nothing to do with depression in this person.

Like you have to be safe before we're going to work on stuff. Like when you're being like under attack is not the time to start trying to dig through the deep stuff. So safety first, always. Definitely. Yeah. I just wanted to point that out. Cause it was funny. It was so fluent and you saying that, but I feel like sometimes people don't know that that's just a step that the first step really is put yourself in a situation where you feel safe or safe-ish or safe enough or at least safer you know exactly right right and then always look for what's safer you know like don't stop there don't settle right safer and then they're safer and then they're safer you know and so like yeah let's

keep it moving um oh sorry no i was just saying exactly okay we look so rebecca is here um i kind of been doing podcasts for a few years now but i moved away from my co-host you know my best friend my co-host i moved away from her so um but she reminds me every day and um it's funny we're having a conversation the other day and i was like, girl, you know, I would do anything for you. She was like, you're going to move back. And I'm like, but that's like, you didn't let me finish. So I knew that I still wouldn't do the podcast because I don't know. I just feel like mental health is so important. It wasn't when I started dealing with my own stuff that I started to feel free, you know? And it's just free enough to be me. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I was posting a TikTok the other day and

I was like, my hair was like all everywhere. And I'm like, yo, who I was last year would not have been on this screen. Not perfect. You know what I'm saying? Like I would have been perfect. And here I am making a TikTok with my hair crazy. Like that is improvement that wouldn't happen if I didn't find my safe place. Breakthrough. Yes. Right. And now it's just like, I just want everybody to know that, yo, you can get this. And I tried everything, you know, until I finally found what worked for me. And what worked for me was me. It was, it was like I kind of had a, you know, I was putting thoughts away that I shouldn't have. You know, I needed to like finish

living the moment out, you know, move on from the moment. You know, I went through a lot of things that I didn't understand. You know, it's, you know, I was molested, but now it went from not only, you know, it being sexual,

now it being sexual and abusive. You know, and then I became, I came okay to terms with the sexual part but now the abusive part i'm like damn what the fuck did i do like i'm doing everything you're asking you know it's like what's going on so it's just oh i'm just telling people find a safe place it's really really dope sorry i probably want a little rant there i was just gonna say like back to him feeling better about himself, you know, and all that. I was just thinking, you know, I've been struggling myself with my own self-esteem forever.

And Micah and Crystal both have been kind of on me a lot about it. And so Crystal suggested, and I guess she did it in the past, about putting a rubber band on my wrist. And that every time I think a negative thought or whatever, I needed to just snap it to kind of remind myself to not think those things. And can I throw another tool on the, the rubber band thing is a thing. It's been around for a while and for people that love it, they love it. And I'm a big, do whatever works for you. I didn't like it because I felt like I was being bad every time. So now it's, oh shoot. I thought a negative thought, which I'm not supposed to do.

So now I'm punishing myself by snapping the rubber band. And then I went into a shame spiral. So the rubber bands is great for some people like yay crystal. It was a solid piece of advice for you. I would suggest if you think in negative thought, instead of trying to like talk yourself out of it, cause that's not gonna work, ask yourself or say out loud, what else is true? So it's like, Oh my God, I'm such a terrible wife loud what else is true so it's like oh my god i'm such a terrible wife

what else is true it's also true that sometimes i'm a really good wife what you know like oh my god no one will like me okay well what else is true well it seems like at least michael likes me so maybe like some people might like if you can i call it make an also true list okay all right i'll try that advice and honestly you took the words out of my hand my mouth i said my hand Make an also true list. Okay. All right. I'll try that. And honestly, you took the words out of my hand, my mouth. I said my hand. Get away.

I took it out of my mouth and then you took it out of my hand. About that, because I was thinking that too, like you're punishing yourself. She must have gotten it from a former therapist of hers. It's a thing. And regular therapy, regular traditional therapy, it's like a go-to. And then again, for some people it works beautifully, but like shaming yourself, oh, now I'm bad because I thought a negative thought. So instead of trying to stop doing something, it's if you can add something else to like, if you can stack on a positive thought to the negative thought, now you've deactivated the power of the negative thought.

So instead of trying to stop, you're just sort of squishing it out. So I find that's a much gentler way of approaching it. I actually find 90% of the time, I forget that I have the dang thing on. But it is, I mean, the concept is still cool. Like you said, with something positive i like that get it together you're not replacing it you're not trying to be like no that's not true you're just saying okay this is my thought here's another one

and then you're just attaching another one to it i also feel like maybe just hear the thought out you know i'm saying sometimes we assume that it's negative and it doesn't have to be and maybe i was a bad wife in that moment but and also true right what else is true not every moment is going to be a bad moment definitely definitely yeah cool and there's places that you can get help there's numbers you can. They're listed all throughout all of our episodes. List the number for you. There's help out there. People will help you.

Britt's information will be all over this. Of course. Yes, Britt. I'll have your information everywhere, all over everything. Thank you. I enjoyed you because we over here were having a conversation like we're friends. I know. It's been like... Is anybody going to get anything out of this?

I think they will. I did. Like anybody? We over here talking about yeah girl. You want some cheese? No. Yeah we thank you for coming on. Yeah this was fun. Again we're talking about really hard things but like

you two are really fun to talk to. So thank you for your work in the world. It's so important. Thank you for your work. Yeah, definitely. And I do really want a signed autographed copy. So I will send you an email. Just tell me what to pay, where to send it.

And I just want my copy. I got to fill up my bookshelf. I got a bookshelf over here. And I want it filled up. I love it. I'll tell you what, I will send you a signed copy and then you just buy one and give it to someone who can't buy one for themselves. Okay. I like it. I'll buy it too. There you go. You're getting the audible because I like to listen to audio books while I'm folding laundry or doing dishes

or whatever. So I'm cool. Well, I read theudible, so you're going to have me in your head for eight hours. Sorry. That's perfect. Your voice is not terrible, so it's okay. Some of them are terrible. So speaking of your book, who do you recommend read it? If you are currently in an unsafe or very high crisis, high trauma situation, don't read my book. Go to like your website and find your like emergency crisis numbers, help like safety first. So if you're not safe, don't read my book. Assuming that you're safe enough that you're not currently like, like, you know, I was high all the time. Like my book would not be helpful while I was high all the time. But like, if you're struggling with something, but you're generally safe enough and you have a few choices rolling around and you have like your basic needs met, like, but you're stressed, you're burned out, you're anxious, you're depressed. You don't know why you keep doing the thing that you don't want to be doing. That's, that's free. The book's for you.

Cool. Definitely. We're going to have the link to everywhere that you can buy it. It's going to be everywhere that we post. We're going to talk about Brit. We'll also put your profile on our website. So people would definitely know how to reach out to you. Get the book. I'm going to read it myself just because every day, just because I feel like I found peace, don't mean there ain't better peace out there for me. Right. So I love that. That's on a t-shirt. Make that onto a t-shirt. Okay. I got to write that down. Two t-shirts right there. We're about to go into business together. Well, we do thank you so much for being on. Thank you. Don't be surprised if you get another email from me, because I feel like we could have talked about another hour. So if we can. We'll talk about your second book. Right. Oh, no, not even that. We could still talk about the first one. Yes.

Because I still got 3,800 questions. So I'm going to invite you back on for part two, if you're okay with that. Done and done. I'm going to say it on the air, so that way you kind of feel obligated. I don't feel obligated. I have good boundaries. But I like you guys, so I'm happy to do it. Oh, my God. You say the dopest stuff. I know.

It's amazing. I know that's right. Well, thank you so much for being on. Thank you guys for watching. And we will see you next week. Bye.