These Fukken Feelings Podcast© - Unveiling the Spectrum: Understanding Autism in Women with Chelsea Verrette | Season 2.5 Ep: 111 -

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

Send us a Text Message.On this special episode of These Fukken Feelings Podcast Season 2.5, hosts Micah and Rebecca welcome a remarkable guest, Chelsea Verrette, Founder and CEO of The Pink Easel. Together, they embark on a profound exploration of a topic often misunderstood and overlooked: autism in women. Join Micah, Rebecca, and Chelsea as they engage in a heartfelt and enlightening conversation about neurodiversity, focusing specifically on the experiences of women on the autism spec...

you don't have to be positive all the time it's perfectly okay to feel sad angry annoyed frustrated scared and anxious having feelings doesn't make you a negative person it doesn't even make you weak it makes you human and we are here to talk through it all we welcome you to these fucking feelings podcast a safe space for all who needs it grab a drink and take a seat. The session begins now. What is up, guys? Welcome to these fucking feelings podcast.

I'm Micah. And I'm Rebecca. And with us today, we have Chelsea Verrett. Is that how you say your last name? My gosh, you did it right. Yay. I have one of my ex-wives. Her last name is Verrett. Really? So just an interesting story. Okay. So Chelsea, you want to go ahead and start by telling us a little bit about yourself?

Sure. Yes. I am a former educator turned consultant, coach, I don't know, whatever I am now, post COVID. And I work with neuro colorful humansful humans as a neuro-colorful human. So what exactly is a neuro-human? A neuro-colorful human? Yeah. So you've heard the term neurodivergent. I haven't. Well, I saw it on your website and so forth. I read about it. Yeah. Okay. So neurodivergent is kind of a subset of neurotypical. So if you think of a neurotypical human, it'd be someone who has a quote unquote typical neurotype. A neurodivergent human would be someone with a divergent neurotype. So think ADHD, autism, bipolar, those types of things. Those are all different types of neurotypes.

So a neurodivergent neurotype is a divergence from a neurotypical. So I call it neurocolorful because the term neurodivergent is reliant on the assumption of a typical, whereas the term such as neuro colorful is not reliant on a quote unquote typical. So yeah, that's pretty cool. It's like no compare, like you're comparing to what, what are we comparing? Right. Yeah. Whose version of neurotypical are we talking about? I kind of say something very similar all the time to people like, you know, because I like to tell people you're perfect. And they're like, no, I'm not. And I'm like, well, what are you comparing it to? Because there's only one you. So who are you comparing yourself to, to know that you're not perfect? I mean, that's not bad. That's a valid point.

Right. I kind of heard that. And what you were saying, too, is like, you know, we put these terms that sometimes can be negative and just the term itself can make people feel some kind of way. Yeah. Because language is very much, it's loaded, whether we like it or not, words have connotations. And so someone somewhere had to build a social construct of neurotypicality. And then everything kind of revolves around that. But what if it didn't? Exactly. So now I just want to ask you a little funny question is we're going to do a little icebreaker here. All right, let's do it.

Even though I feel like the ice has already been broken. Actually, I wish I had some ice, but that's another story. Yes. yes so what is something or a show or movie that you continue to watch like over and over again okay no judgment it's like a judgment-free zone of course okay Okay. All right. Moulin Rouge. Moulin Rouge. I actually, my partner just took me for my birthday to see the play Moulin Rouge in New Orleans. Oh, that's pretty cool. Okay. Uh-huh.

So. What do you love about that movie? You know, such a good question because I think I watched it the other day and thought, what is it that originally drew me into this whole situation? Because my partner was like, what is happening here? I don't know. I think it's the singing, obviously, is always fantastic. And then they just throw a bunch of songs together and there's dancing and chaos. Maybe it's a representation of what's happening on the inside of my head, singing, dancing, chaos, but outward expressively. That's my theory. Okay. That's a good answer.

That is. I like it. Mine is Pose. What is it? Pose. Oh, Holes? Pose. Pose.

P-O-S-E. Pose. Oh, I don't know. You never seen Pose? No. So it was on... I don't think of what channel it was on. Ryan Murphy kind of does it. It was about, like, the transgender community in, like, the 80s, 90s.

Oh. And it was, like, about the ballroom scene. You're telling me brand new information. Oh, my God. It was on, I know, like, it's on Hulu. Like, you. It was on, I know like it's on Hulu. Like you can watch it on Hulu and stuff. I don't know. I think anybody should watch it. The Cotton Cop is funny because I grew up in New York city during the

eighties. And it wasn't until I watched this show that I learned about like the AIDS epidemic. And it's funny. Cause it's not funny as hilarious. It's funny. It's funny because it's not funny as hilarious funny funny haha it's like a different thing how um like i i like i went to these places these people talked about and i did things these people did but i never knew that like all those people were just dying you know it was like crazy so it taught me that and i don't know why i keep rewatching it, but it does something to me emotionally that I like.

Like, it motivates me in a way. And it's really crazy because it's like, how? I don't know how. I wonder if you learn something new every time you watch it. No, it's just, anyway, it's really funny and it's humorous and it has like a, like everybody should at least watch one episode. It's so colorful. Okay. I see what you did there.

Yeah. It is a very colorful. Okay. I see what you did there. Yeah. It is a very colorful. So, sorry, we're going to get back to you now. Well, wait, I just want to say what my favorite is really quickly. He left you right out. I know. Don't get me started.

So, mine is Little House on the Prairie. I've never seen it. neither okay well mine it's because i it makes me think of my mom it reminds me of my mom yours is better than all of ours yeah that's why i didn't want her to say it it's a cute little you know it sounds just like it is. Little house on the prairie. I mean, that sounds lovely. Mine was chaos. His was being motivated by AIDS.

And here you are with like the only normal answer to be given. Isn't it horrible? It's like crazy when you think about things. So what does that say about us exactly? I know. No answer. No comment. Yeah, I don't know know so we shall move on new question where do we get this pillow situation i'm gonna send you one if you send me your address i will send you a pillow don't play with me oh i'm serious yeah there are a source of

comfort everybody needs a comfort pillow. Sometimes conversation up here can get really, really dark. Yeah. Because, you know, we're talking about real life, you know. Yeah. And I squeeze it sometimes. You know, when people tell their stories and it's like, I can't believe someone goes through that. Or I can't believe other people cause this person to go through that. Or, you know, it's like a little, yeah.

Yeah. I should have had my pillow pre-show is what you're saying. Right. Yeah. I need to start sending them to people before the interview. Okay. But we will send you one. Definitely.

Definitely send you one. Yay. So we're going to go right into your story because you found out you were diagnosed with autism in 2022. Yeah, November of 2022. That's great. So you were as big as you are now? This is me.

This is the whole show. So how did you get through life? Like, not knowing. Because it's not something you just catch or get right like yeah so it's yeah I mean define get through life really right yeah I think that's what we're all trying to do now we're trying to get through life yeah but sorry I know I'm gonna compound your question but was it a feeling that like was it always something that you kind of knew, like, something is different or? Because I feel like you went to search for this, right? You went in search for this diagnosis?

Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead, girl. Take it away. I was just watching the pretty colors in the background go around. So that's kind of where I am right now, in case you're wondering. Yes. I mean, have I always been different? Yes. But our understanding of autism as it is now, especially female autism, especially female adult autism is so very new. So even if we would have, if I would have had the words to search for autism as a kid in the 80s or the 90s, even the early 2000s, it wouldn't have really made a difference because I didn't have the stereotypical representations of an autist,

I can make eye contact, I can hold a conversation. I don't stack trains in a certain order and I'm not a five-year-old white boy. So since I don't kind of hit those markers the way that I should, it is highly likely that I would have never been diagnosed as autistic. And even if I was, there's not support structures in place for those types of things. So it really was a lot of anxiety. I thought things differently. I would go into like things that are often referred to now as special interests or, um, so like by special interest, when I was a kid was Sims, like old school sims we had to buy all the expansion packs and like put them on your computer with the cds and everything did you ever play sims i know why are you guys making that

i don't i don't i'm like i don't know do you know what it is now i don't stop it's a video so we have producer here crystal and she's like yelling at us like it's a video game what is wrong with you What is wrong with you? What is wrong with you? I wasn't going to say it, but since Crystal said it. Yeah, we don't do video games. I don't either. I didn't even own a game console growing up, okay?

Okay, well, it's fine. You're lovely people, I'm sure. You didn't watch Little House on the Prairie. That is accurate. Okay. But I also was not motivated by AIDS. So I think we should just... It wasn't that I was motivated by AIDS.

Don't say it like that. We all... I heard it. We have it on record here somewhere. I can technically edit that part out. I think of autism, I always go to the good doctor and I think of Sean Murphy, you know, and it's like, that's what I think, you know? So it's different, you know, this is different. I'm

learning right now. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted her to finish her train of thought. Oh, I was going to let her get there. Okay. Okay. Did I have a train? So Sims is a simulator. You're playing a human and you're simulating their life. Okay. So you have to get a job and build a house and it's really lovely. Anyway, I would go into it for like hours at a time, just hours upon hours upon hours. And I would play it at three times speed because everything else was too slow. And it was just the best because you could play at three times speed. And it is found that autistic brains as compared to neurotypical, even though that's not a real thing, process roughly 45% more information than a typical brain as they go, which is fascinating. So I don't even really know what that means, but because I've never been neurotypical,

so I don't know the difference of experiences, but it is definitely different. So I always liked things to go exceptionally faster. So I am AUDHD. So I'm ADHD and autistic, which means, fun fact, I am constantly both overstimulated and understimulated. And they just constantly kind of battle each other for wherever we're going to land in the middle. But to answer the original question is I always knew that the way that I experienced things, processed things, and kind of felt the world was different than how people around me did. But there was no, I had no knowledge or language for what that actually was. That's crazy. Wow. You must be, I mean, I'm thinking that you must feel exhausted or exhaustion isn't a thing.

I mean, you've got to be. No, no, that's definitely a thing. I mean, I feel exhausted every day and I'm not autistic, but I mean, to be ADHD. You may be. I might be. I'm not autistic, but I mean, to be ADHD stimulated, overstimulated, I mean, you've got to be exhausted. Yeah, it is definitely an interesting experience to be autistic and ADHD. I will say, so there is a term that's relatively new. It only began being researched about five years ago called autistic burnout. So you've heard of the typical term of burnout. But if you think of autistic burnout, it's burnout, but to a whole nother degree, and essentially means when you are faking neurotypicality for too long. So you're doing more differently than you

should for an extended period of time. And it's really challenging to recover from. The rate of suicide in autistic humans is actually shockingly high. Yeah. So that's a whole other side. I'm working on providing community for those types of humans. But when I was in high school, I was in 10th grade and I would call my mom crying. I was bored. And so I was understimulated and overstimulated at the same time, but I had no idea how to express this because I was in all honors. I was playing volleyball. I was doing all the wonderful things. And I was also bored out of my mind. So I would call her crying every day. Just like, please don't make me do this anymore.

Please don't make me do this. And for whatever reason, my mom finally pulled me out. And I convinced her to just buy me all homeschool curriculum. And she did. So she bought curriculum for 10th, 11th, and 12th grade. Gave it to me. And I just finished in like a year, went through all the curriculum and was so much happier. But looking back, I was experiencing autistic burnout and I was overstimulated and understimulated.

But I had no concept of what I was experiencing or how to explain it. And now your family, like, did they treat you like you were different? Did you ever feel like anybody treated you like that? Your mom just sounds dope for bringing her out of school. I'm trying to get Crystal to take her daughter out of school, because she gets bullied, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, feeling different. Did you feel like your family saw you as different?

I was always just the really sensitive, like quiet, you know, reserved one. I didn't like to get in trouble or put myself out there, which is now funny. At this point in my life, I'm like, I will burn everything down. So I'm very different now. But I was, I don't know that I was really treated different. I was just very quiet and reserved and kind of stayed to myself. Right. Did they consider you like extra smart or advanced? I don't know. I know that I was always considered very emotional.

Okay. And, you know, quiet and those types of things. And then as I got older, I was constantly being told that, you know, you're wise beyond your years or, you know, those types of things, because I think about things differently. And so if a 13 year old was presenting me a concept, my 13 year old autistic brain is seeing it completely different and then reframing it back to them. And so not necessarily that one was better or worse. I just saw it very, very different. We would have some interesting conversations. I think really weird, too. Perfect. Really, really weird. And that, but see, I'm like emotional in an awkward way because like I cried at a TV show.

Let somebody get married on TV. Like, oh, they want to be so much, you know, but let it be like a real life. And I'd be like, I don't care. I'm not going to that shit. I ain't dressing up. Yes, that sounds, that sounds right. So it is, it's common that autistic humans, and of course I preface this to say, if you've met one autistic human, you've met one autistic human. So there, the spectrum, which is not linear, it is a circle, is experienced completely different by every autistic human ever in the history of ever. But it is common for autistic humans. No, that was just a dope statement. You only met one. But I feel like that goes for everybody. For sure. But I mean, things like autism or ADHD or take any subgroup, right? You think if you've met one, whatever, then you know what that person is.

Kind of like when you're like, oh, I have a Black friend. We don't do that. That's not okay. My cousin's son, for years, he's 38 now. I thought he was autistic. When I found out he got hit with a car when he was younger so he had traumatic brain injury and it's like two different things definitely but you know me it was stereotyping because what he did is what they say autistic kids did you know and um but he's very he is so intelligent and i just like going to a restaurant with him because he is gonna like ask every question about the menu, what's in

the menu, what's in the dish, what kind of meat they use, where they cutting it. And I'm like, yeah, I'm for this. I remember both my daughters are autistic. And I remember my oldest, we walked into a restaurant. She was probably nine or 10. And she goes, what do you think the overhead is on this place? And I was like, what are we doing? You're about to buy a restaurant. Yeah, apparently that's where we were going. How old is your daughter now? 13. You got a 13 year old daughter and you looking like you're 22. Oh, that's a different story about, you know, white Christian nationalism and purity boxes that we would have to have a different conversation about. I know. See, that I did

read and remembered. And I was like, wow. Yeah. But we ain't got to get into that now. We can talk about that next time. So how do you manage your ADHD now? And since your daughters are ADHD as well, how do you manage theirs? She's like, we said I manage. Define manage. So my daughters were actually both recently diagnosed as well. So my youngest, I have an 11 year old and 13 year old. My youngest was diagnosed ADHD and dyslexic in first grade. She's now in fifth grade. So she's had, of all of us, she's had the diagnosis the longest. And then she was diagnosed autistic first of all of us as well. So I'm trying to think a little bit before November. And then I was diagnosed autistic. And then my oldest was diagnosed autistic maybe just like two months ago.

So now was it that you saw something in your daughter that you saw in yourself that made you want to get tested or was something that you kind of all did together? No, we all got tested separately. My youngest, so before I do whatever it is that I do now, I ran early education centers. My undergrad is in child development. So I knew that my youngest, Alayah, needed something different for the way that she learned, but I didn't really know what that was. And so it was just always a conversation of what do you need that's a little bit different? What do you need that's different? Which led us one step down, you know, one piece at a time until she was diagnosed as autistic.

And then when I started digging into autism and what it is, and I read Unmasking Autism by Dr. Devin Price, which is essentially my Bible. Don't tell, don't tell the Bible people. But, but I started learning more about what autism looks like in adults, especially females, and started going, hmm. And that kind of was the snowball that. So is females being autistic weird? Is that weird or. Not weird. Just not commonly diagnosed because we mask differently. We present differently. And so we can, you know, get away with.

Right after this, I'm about to take these two and get them tested. You know what I mean? You said emotional. Hey, what did I say? If you've met one autistic, you've met one autistic. Oh, no. I was talking about the emotional part. Women are all emotionally the same. You want to hold on to that statement?

Or you want to walk that back a little? I just wanted to see if y'all was going to buck on me a little bit. Right guys, right women are just, you know, they're beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. I smell the rubber from your backpedaling. but so let's talk about what you do okay tell me what do i do that's a good question i'm still trying to figure out right so i look i'm like right because you just say you don't know what you do you don't you know i mean i do i do the thing what's the thing that's a that's a great question i know she started out in early education so So we know that. We don't want to miss you now. She created the pink easel. And that was from or that design of the pink easel was drawn by you.

Yes. And inspired by your early education because it was, it just makes you happy. It does. Yes. So tell us a little bit about the Pinkiesoul. Yeah. So it's all been essentially an evolution. That's why it's really challenging for me to be like, I do this, right? Because it's been in 2020, when COVID happened, I was directing a school, blah, blah. And I joked with my school, the person who owned the school at the time that I should probably get on LinkedIn in case I lose my job, which was funny until I did. It wasn't funny anymore. And I was like, oh boy. So for the first time in like 16 years, I wasn't working in a school, didn't really know what to do. Started building an online community, realized I really liked that. I was actually decent at it. Built a pretty good

community and initially did consulting for educational operations, training and trauma informed training, psychological safety training, and all of that around education spaces. Cause initially did consulting for educational operations, training and trauma-informed training, psychological safety training, and all of that around education spaces, because that was my thing. And then as I moved forward, I worked with a coach. And I like to say that she saved my life. She likes to say that she created space for me to save my own life. And I know that she's right, but I'm just saying she really was like- She made you feel safe. She was the first person to create a safe space for me in the way that I hoped I did for other people. And it was absolutely life-changing. And that's when I learned that coaching was a thing

because who knew? I had no idea. And started kind of playing around with the idea of doing that. Fast forward a little bit. I did some here and there, then finding out that I was autistic, that my girls were autistic, inheriting all of these concepts, learning more about the autistic community, the suicide rate, the lack of support. Like how did you make it through COVID. Okay. I sold two houses, built a business, got a divorce, left my religion, and changed careers. Okay. That makes sense. That's all. Other than that, I mean, I got a couple tattoos also. But I think that's it.

I kind of went through my midlife crisis during COVID, too. So I get it. I packed up everything I had in a car and I moved and I only brought what fit in my car. And I changed my life so much. I don't even have a car no more. You're pretty inspiring. I got to say, I mean, dang, that's a lot. It was a lot, but there was definitely just a lot of points of laying on the floor going, how do I make all of this end? Right. And that's when I got, at some point I went to my brother and was like, how do I make all of this in? And he was like, no, we're done. Like we're done.

We're going to take steps forward. And, you know, it kind of went from there and I got my semicolon tattoo and, you know, now here we are. But then if you come to this point, started learning about the autistic community, especially the late diagnosed autistic community. So people my age who are just finding out that they're autistic or have always known that they are autistic, but there's no real resources. You might hear people say the difference between self-diagnosis. So there's a, so a formal diagnosis of autism, especially for an adult female, is challenging to get. There are a lot of barriers to access, which means that self-diagnosis is valid. There's a lot of privilege associated with being able to get a formal diagnosis. So I support self-diagnosis for individuals who are able to

recognize that in themselves. The argument that you might hear in that is that people say, we can't promote self-diagnosis because they'll take our resources. And my response to that is, what resources? There are no resources for them to take from us. There is not. There's just a complete lack of resources. And if you do find something, often it can be backed by places like Autism Speaks, which is a whole problem that we don't support, and other toxic things such as that. So that's kind of where it evolved in that I started hanging out with the autistic community, started building structures and providing support there. And it kind of took off in January. The community grew, we had a Discord server that grew, my TikTok grew, and all of a sudden, we started supporting each other and thus the Pinkies, which the logo is an easel.

And the intention of that, of it being an easel is one of the big statements of big autism places that believe that they can cure autism. They say things like, we give autistic people a voice. My challenge to that is autistic people already have a voice, so they don't need you to give them one. How about you give them a space to use their own voice which is where the easel comes in so it's a blank easel and then therefore it's a space for them to use because they already have one okay what the heck is an easel what oh so we just it's maybe what you're pronouncing it all right okay you know what i don't blame you if you shut off this interview right now no i love you you and i are great so we're talking about like a thing that people like paint on and stuff like i don't know y'all saying easel i'm like is it an animal now? It looks like an A. And it stands up

on the ground and you can write on it. I thought I had a pinky seal sticker, but I don't. Because I've never had to explain to someone what it is. It's me. I'm Puerto Rican, so we don't pronounce

all our words and stuff. He bl me. I'm Puerto Rican. I know. We don't pronounce all our words and stuff. He blames everything on being Puerto Rican. I'm going to use it as long as I can. Yeah. I didn't mean to cut you off, but I was like, are they saying. And her easel design is really cute. Are they saying easel? It is.

It's adorable. Thank you. Yes, it is. And then we draw different things inside of it so like my main one says you're safe here so that's kind of my motto my quote but then we have different ones that say like safe space and looks like a galaxy and one that says gender is a galaxy it looks like a galaxy and um neurodiversity is my jam or whatever so we put different things on the easel because you ride on it.

It's like a board on feet. No, no, I knew. I did. I didn't know. I didn't know. There's that rubber, the backtrack, the rubber again. I promise you there are people who's watching that was like, what the hell are they talking about? Why are you pulling them into this? You look like they don't need to be drawn into your ability. I do want to draw them into this fact. I do want to draw them into this fact because we are, we do talk about mental health and we're, we're really big on just kind of the same thing. I mean, a lot of people, I feel like don't go try to get the professional help just because such a stigma behind it, but it's like, you can do things yourself to help you get through trauma. And if you think you don't have trauma,

you're crazy because everybody has some kind of trauma. But the kind of theme over the last four episodes probably that we have filmed has been to find a safe place, to find a place you feel safe. And I think it's really dope because you said the same thing and it sounds like you're really big on that. Because safety is number one. you have to feel safe in order to really deal with your crap yeah and if you're not in a safe environment you're not gonna be able to deal with your crap correct so so like when you join the community or if you join a training of mine or one of our book clubs or one of my coaching calls like anything that you do and you're hanging out anywhere remotely near me, there will be some sort of beginning that says, this is how we make this a safe place. And it kind of goes through the ideas. And since my background is in trauma-informed and psychological safety, it's just kind of pulling all of that into this type of structure.

And I probably say it way more than the people who hang out with me would like but you get what you get you know it is yeah for sure I like the server though it is very intuitive and very like there's so much information on it that I love it if it's a great resource. Did you go to the Discord server? Yeah, I did. Oh, I did. And it's so well put together. And I just wish that that sort of thing was available. I mean, maybe it is.

And I just haven't found it or researched it well enough. But I just wish it was available for every, you know of neuro diverse human bipolar i mean maybe you do serve all of those um communities communities on there i don't know i know that you target pretty much well with the um autistic we have a lot of autistic adhd yeah um but we also have like i'll have people on my tiktok that say i'm bipolar can i still hang out and i'm like uh yeah so we kind of get all everyone in the space but i don't know what i am do i get to hang out i mean do you know what an easel is i'm gonna look it up yeah look it up because i honestly i am confused about it a little bit i feel like we're talking about the same thing though yeah that is you know criteria i feel like required criteria like information that's required to know yeah well you know what i kind

of went a different angle than her i was was like watching your YouTube videos and stuff. So I was watching the video. You would still see the easel on her YouTube videos. I'm sorry. I'm not on your side on this one. There is an easel there as well. Well, not on the video, but your first day being autistic.

I ain't see no easel up there. Or the day you was tying your shoes because you was having trouble with them shoes, girl. I know. I ain't see no easel there either. All right. That's fair enough. So maybe I picked all the ones that didn't have. All right. He's got us there. I'll give you that. Okay. All right. So now.

He took his research in a different direction. I did. Once again, it just goes to show how different I think as well. You know, but I'm learning a lot now. You believe me? But I guess now is a good time to say that there are a lot of resources out there. Chelsea has a lot of resources. And of course, we're going to list all of the information all over our website, social media, all that kind of resources. And of course, we're going to list all of the information. Exactly. All over our website, social media, all that kind of stuff.

We just had our first press release and we made it all the way to Fox. Well, look at you. No, so I'm like, look at them. Aren't you the fanciest people with a pillow I've ever met? I'll take that. And then it has like the

code on the back so you can just see it and like listen to the episode you know what I'm saying I mean that is that is pretty fantastic oh man so we want you to scan your pillow when you get it okay

you can listen if that is not the most 2023 thing anybody has ever said right right right i have listened yeah that's what you said right you're feeling bad you're gonna grab the pillow you're gonna scan it with your phone. You're going to pick an episode and then you're going to hold your pillow as you listen to the episode. That's a solid plan. So, um, cool. Yeah. I still

want to know how you survived COVID. You went through all that, but what did you do to like keep okay? To find okay. I know, I know. And it seems like, like you said, you went through all kinds of life changing things, but it was like, was there ever a moment that you felt peace? Do you ever feel peace?

Ah, we're getting deep here. I'm sorry. Big question. I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've felt like, okay, I'm in this moment. I feel cool here. This is fun. And it doesn't last very long. So my piece is different. And this is interesting. I'd actually like to expand on that for a second. Of course. So there's this concept of rest, right? And when you think of rest, if I told you to go get some

rest or to take some time for self-care, if I told you to go get some rest or to take some time for self-care, what would you do? What would be your first thing that came to mind that said, I need to do this? This is self-care. I would read a book. Okay. I would watch TikTok. I like it. I'm with that. I'm for it. So often we hear the phrase like, go take care of yourself, go get some rest. And you're like, oh, I need to do things that are traditionally restful, right? Like read a book or take a bath or do a face mask or whatever those things are. My question is, what if those things are the opposite of restful for you? So what if you're in a bath and you're overstimulated by the water on your skin, or you're reading a book and it's presenting new information for you that you now cannot

control the response of having to go find out more information or you're doing a face mask and you don't like the way that it feels. So these things that are traditionally restful for people who are neurocolorful can be the exact opposite. Whereas rest for a neurocolorful human can look like hyper-focusing on four hours of research in your special interest. So like this morning, I spent probably a good three hours at 5am reading about neurocentrism. And that was probably the most restful moment that I've had this week. And so when people ask these questions, like how do you rest? Or, you know, you do a lot, you don't really rest, You should rest more. The answer to that is my rest, and often for many neuro-colorful humans, looks exceptionally different than likely a neurotypical's version

of rest because it's not going to be a face mask and a bubble bath. Because if I have to lay there with the bubbles popping next to my ears, I will lose my mind. But if you give me academic journals and let me sit on the couch and read about neurocentrism for three hours, I'm the happiest human. So I think it's maybe a two-sided question is I feel peace as it exists for me, but I might not feel peace as it exists for a quote unquote neurotypical human. Right. And for everybody is different. My piece is just to be by my damn self. So, you know, I feel like you just need to smoke a blunt. I mean, you do stuff. I'm in Texas.

You do stuff like that. I would do high, you know, I would be high researching for four hours. I'm all for medical marijuana. I got a court. I would be high researching for four hours on something. I'm off work. Medical marijuana. I got a card. That's a card.

There's like an O in there? Yeah. And they say I'm allowed to do it. I have a card too. We don't know for what. I have lots of too. We don't know for what. I have lots of cards. I have so many cards actually. They get stacked up in my purse and I don't know what they're

for. We're going to get back on track. You first said rest. I was like, what is that? I feel like I don't get rest. Because they keep me busy. Have you ever reflected on what rest feels like for you? Honestly, it's really bad. Believing everything I knew gave me peace.

It was something about moving to another place and like starting over that was, I don't know, like in that I found peace, but I also dealt with a lot of my trauma. Yeah, so in that silence, it was very loud. It was loud for my first couple of months here. And there were a lot of dark, crazy nights and days for me where I didn't sleep. And I thought about a lot. I had like a really I had a horrible childhood, but no one in my family played part of it.

You know, so it's kind of like always feeling it had to be two faces. It had to be kind of normal for my family. But then I'm dealing with such, I was molested a lot and I'm dealing with such dark stuff. And it's like, but I don't want to show that to my family. And then I'm also mad at them because it's going on and I don't know. So anyway, my point was I got away and I started dealing with my crap kind of by myself a little bit, which was kind of hard. You know, sit there to be the person that got to talk, listen and give advice. Like when they said me, myself and I, they was not playing.

No, I think Micah is at his peace, you know, when he is giving others advice. That's my opinion. he loves to help people he loves to not to make it sound rude but he loves to talk i do yeah um she's like i can tell i've been here i heard it i can validate that yeah yeah so i thought this episode was about me yeah so he's really good at it though. So, um, honestly, if you were to ask me what his piece is, that's where he's the most, but you know what? It may be truth to that because I feel like growing up,

I didn't have a voice. You know, my voice. So once I found my voice, I do not care. Trust. I don't care. I'm like,

they know I don't care. I'm going to say what I feel. I'm going to let you know what I feel about you. I'm going to tell you, you did something I don't care. I'm going to say what I feel. I'm going to feel what I say. He does. I'm going to let you know what I feel about you. I'm going to tell you there's something I don't like. I'm just going to tell you. I mean, I think all that's valid.

Right. But one thing is true that I felt peace for the first time in my life. I felt like a wholeness. And now I can't unfeel it. And I feel like it's the greatest thing. And everybody needs to feel it. Like when you feel whole in yourself, that is like amazing. And everybody should feel whole in themselves, you know?

Yeah. And it's the little, and I think that really is the reason for the podcast and why we're here talking to you. Because there's a lot of people right now that are like, I mean, you describing stuff and I'm like, I know I'm not no female, but maybe I got some autism. So did you always suspect you were autistic? And maybe do you feel more like, I don't know if it's rude to ask, but more like validated in the knowledge that you are actually autistic after all these years? So, I mean, I didn't have information on what autism was. Even working in special education departments in schools, it's a very limited, like the information is limited and very stereotyped, even in education and places you would assume it would not be. So I started learning through autism and like the quote unquote true experience of autism from autistic voices.

So if you think like TikTok, where they're given a platform to share and speak, that's where I really started learning about what it was and starting to see some of that reflected in myself and going, huh. So when I sought that out, because I believe that with or without a formal diagnosis, like I said before, you are neither more or less any of those things. But for me, like when my doctor called me to give me my results, her statement was, I have good news. You're autistic. And it was because it was validating. Like I am, I have a, you know, especially growing up being gaslit a lot, there's, you have very little trust for yourself. So the fact that I was able to recognize patterns in myself, state them to someone else,

and then be validated that I was accurately perceiving myself was a huge thing for me. And then learning that I'm autistic gave me essentially a keyword. Now I know the search term. Like now I know who my community is and how to search for what I'm looking for. I mean, now I have a better SEO. It's really just kind of data for that, which is really helpful. And like saying what you said about feeling that peace when you're talking and giving advice to someone else. I feel something similar when I'm doing coaching in just that creating that safe space. Right. Like I love asking clarifying questions. I don't really in my coaching, I don't really give advice per se.

It's not like do these four things. It's kind of like, how does this make you feel? What do you think about that? Let's plan those things together. I ask a lot of clarifying questions. I don't use, I don't pull into definitive language and those types

of things. Anyway, I feel a lot of peace in that because often people are given like binary choices or definitive responses. And there's a whole lot more for you to explore for yourself and how you exist in the world than anything that exists only in a binary. Definitely. It's pretty cool. Like you, you, you help people with their light bulb. So I did want to ask though, so what do you, what advice can you give people who know something is wrong? I mean, wrong? Well, you know, like they're not normal per se. What is normal? Right.

Neurotypical. That question. So if you're not neurotypical, are you wrong? No, you're right. But there are people that feel wrong. At one time in my life, I was like, I was just wrong. I felt like shit. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. You know, so I'm feeling now jacked up and messed up. And but I don't feel like I need help. Like, what's your advice to me? I mean, that's an interesting question with many interesting facets. But I think, so what I talk about a lot when, when I'm working with people who ask similar questions to you is what is it? So we use the term masking versus unmasking. So masking, like I said before, is acting, pretending neurotypicality, but everybody masks, right? It's a common language for autistic people

to mask as neurotypical. But like you were saying before, like how you showed up with your parents was a different way than you showed up by yourself. I mean, that's masking. So everybody masks in some way. And so I think a big question in that is, what does it look like to unmask? If you could control when you mask and when you don't mask, what does that look like for you? And what does unmask look like? And even deeper than that, what is, are you able to fully quote unquote unmask when you're by yourself? Or do you still carry that same shame around what you are supposed to and or not supposed to do? So a very simple example is autistic people often do something called stimming, which is self-stimulatory behavior.

So I move a lot. This is self-stimulatory behavior because I'm understimulated. Or you have a fidget. Or a very stereotypical common one is flapping hands. But it can also be twirling hair, like playing with your glasses, anything that provides those types of things. You may see a video of like an autistic person showing themselves stimming where they put on music and then they react to the music without thinking about what they're supposed to and not supposed to do. That was a big viral thing in like 2020.

But it's actually quite challenging to stim openly, even by yourself, because you still have this voice in the back of your head of this is normal or this is weird. Don't be weird. Like embarrassing. Yeah. Even if you're by yourself, you're still embarrassing yourself because you're doing whatever this thing is. So I often ask, like, what would it look like to completely unmask? Can you hang out with yourself without embarrassing yourself? And how would you even go about doing that? Because it's really hard. It sounds really easy. You're like, I'm by myself,

no one will ever know. But actually, it's much harder than you think it is. And that's kind of like step one of I feel maybe different, but I don't really think anything's wrong and I don't really know how to ask for help. Would it be how could you hang out with yourself without shaming yourself for whatever it is that you do like to do or how your body wants to move. It's always a very interesting question. I still have a hard time with it. I really like that answer. Well, thank you. I like it.

I was wondering how you could have explained that or answered that. And I think that was pretty clear and well thought out. You got something on your nose? Yeah, it's there. A little something on your nose? It's a little. You got something to throw at him? Yeah, I just threw a pen at him.

Oh, good. Honestly, I thought it was a good answer, too. But then she gave me credit. Yeah, she gave it now. I got a pop for that. I know. But you know what? I don't have no problem embarrassing myself.

I just don't care. You know? That's no problem embarrassing myself. I just don't care. You know, that's part of my piece. I just don't care. You know, so I grew up. It was funny. I grew up molested. And I think because I was a feminine guy or I felt like I was born feminine. My mom told me I was she knew I was gay when I was in her womb. And I joke because I'm like, oh, because I hit you like this. So that's always our joke. But I feel like I was just born with a flair, you know? And so, you know, I always been the faggot and the punk and the sissy. And so I went out and I used to try to like be more masculine.

I did that for a long time. Like I was afraid to like really show myself. What? I was asking my ass off. You hear me? With Will Smith out there bitch. You hear me? But then I decided to take off the mask because I'm like

this is who I am. And you know what? It's scary because we live in a world of such hate. It's like it's so different. Yeah like someone will kill you because you're gay. Or someone will kill you because different and like yeah like someone will kill you because you're gay or someone will kill you because you're autistic or someone will kill you because you're bipolar it's just you know it's like just the reality so it's kind of hard to want to be

yourself but I'm just like if this is what I'm dying doing at least I was dying me you know me and now I don't care I just don't I mean, you asked what I did over COVID. I was essentially unmasking through the entirety of COVID. And I mean, that's how I ended up leaving all those different parts of myself. But my life was centrally focused around the religion that I was a part of. So like for 32 years, that was all that I knew and everything revolved around that. So taking that away and having to figure out who I was outside of the parameters that were set for me was a whole thing. Turns out-

Did you learn like who you were spiritually also? I mean, yeah. I joke with my partner now. When he met me, I was a straight white. I'm still white, by the way, in case you didn't. Straight, white, heterosexual Christian. And now I am none of those things, except white. I am white. You're stuck with that one. That's what you get, what you get. Like I am none of those things. Turns out those things were an expression of what I was told that I was supposed to be. And so unmasking, especially in the way that I did it is dangerous and it is scary. And I literally lost my entire, when I say entire, I mean entire community of 32 years. So, I mean, it's a dangerous thing. 32.

Was it so dangerous because you didn't? Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. In the span of two years. Yeah. Started in 2020 and did all that. But did you feel that you were in your safe space like was it dangerous because you weren't in a safe space um i say dangerous in the well yes i

wasn't in a safe space but um i say dangerous in that if you are like i'm i'd like to really fully unmask or discover, you know, these things about myself or show up as whatever and think and also say at the same time, I don't want to lose anything. Right. I mean, that's not. And there's always the fear of not liking what you see. Yeah. Oh, yeah. that's a big thing that we talk about in the server, in the trainings and stuff that we do is like you're, you're already likely having a really challenging time loving yourself. Like we're always learning self love and how you love yourself and whatever.

And then imagine you're given another identity. Suddenly you went from trying to love whatever identity you have to now you're having to learn your love, your autistic identity. I mean, that's a whole other, there's a grief process, not because autism is bad, just because you wish you would have known, like maybe you would have supported that version of yourself differently had you known and all these types of things. And so having to learn to re-love a new identity that you hold is really hard, especially as a late diagnosed human, because you're having a hard enough time trying to love whatever version of yourself you have then.

And, you know, so there's all of that is a part of kind of that experience. And that's why I would never go out to everybody and say, you need to unmask or you need to mask or you need to show up authentically because it's not always safe. Especially for, I mean, I have a lot of privilege and I'm willing to like have all, I mean, not have it, willing to state that I have a lot of privilege. So I was able to do a lot of things that I do because I'm hetero passing. Maybe, I don't really know. You know, I'm hetero passing. Maybe, I don't really know. You know, I'm a white woman, right? So like I have a lot of privilege, but it can be dangerous for people of color or people who are openly or much more visibly disabled. I mean, there are examples of white autistic women going online and stimming and doing things like that who are

praised. And then there are Black autistic women who go on and are harassed to the point of leaving their platforms. So it's not always safe to just say, show up authentically, because you just, it's not, it's not the same experience for everyone. Yeah. So it kind of goes back to like a thought that you just need to find, you need to be safe first. Yeah. I mean, that's why I focus on psychological safety because whenever someone says like, how do I start unmasking? I'm like, do you have a safe place to do that? Do you have a safe person to do that with? And there's, you know, questions that you can go through and think about because often we don't. And so we have to find it or build it or kind of audit the people around us and say, I really want to unmask with my partner.

But is my partner willing to change their perceptions of what they believe autism is? Right. And allow me to unmask. I mean, it's not always. Unfortunately, it's not always safe. And so it's on us, unfortunately, to figure out if it's safe to do that thing or not. Definitely. That's a pretty good answer. Rebecca. You got me on like a tangent. Sorry. No, no, no, no. You're good. Look, great. Because, you know, I joke around a lot, but we really want to help people heal. And that's what you're doing. You know, you're giving

advice that can help somebody heal so i'm for it um rebecca is kind of my safe place sometimes i'm i think a lot as you probably tell in my mind kind of crazy and i'll just need her to sit next to me though you know it's like come here and she gets mad at me we work in this day job together and um i know she's like i got work too like what the fuck you want you know and i'm like re like, Rebecca, come here. Just sit here. Don't say nothing, but just sit here. Because I need to figure out a problem and I need that support. Yeah.

Parallel play. Yeah. And she does it and then she'll complain. I didn't even say nothing. Then they tell me I suck as a boss, but that's another episode. I'm here for that episode, actually. Yeah. Well, we got to have another one anyway, because we got to go back and talk about how you stopped being a Christian. Just some white Christian nationalism?

Sure. Sign. I'm going to edit that one out, too. But yeah, we'll definitely list all your contact information. What kind of human would you suggest contact you? I mean, the plainest statement to that is late diagnosed or late self-realized autistic human is probably the best, you know, the closest to who I am and who I represent. But neuro-colorful humans in general

is what makes up the community that we hang out in. Right. Cool. Love it. And the point is this, no matter what you're feeling, there's somebody out there for you. You know, there's somebody that understands it. Someone's going through it or has been through it. And it's never the same exact thing. We get that, but it's still similar, you know? And I kind of feel like that's what we as humans forget sometimes, you know, we don't go through the same exact thing, but the pain is similar. Yes. Yes. Very much. Yeah. Find your safe place, find your safe person, find your safe thing, whatever it is to be safe. There's a whole bunch of hotlines. We list a

lot of them. We keep a lot of them out there. Now we're going to add Chelsea's information to it. You know what I'm saying? I'm a caller anyway, and I'm like, you need to work with me, okay? Sounds like Chelsea needs to write a book. It does sound like you need to write a book. And I'm disappointed. It sounds like you still need a podcast. Yeah. I mean, I had one, but one but it was education based and so it's on my list well i like your little bloopers like i call them bloopers because they're like a few minutes long i like those because they're informative and they're quick i thought about doing some of those i like those yeah i really like those too i like those too i have a lot of fun with the tiktok

that's actually what grew the fastest when I started talking about those things. But I miss long form podcasts. I mean, there's a place for those two. I'd like to do both. I'd like to do everything. Just a little bit of all the things. I think you definitely have a lot to say and a lot to contribute to the world. So, yeah. Definitely need to hear more from you. And it's positive, it's positive. And that's kind of like the cool thing that, you know,

I was able to joke so much because I felt safe. That's just what he does. It's a serious topic, but he brings that element of fun and, you know, life. Because, you know, life because you know it's what it's what it is it's life so want people to know it's like just find your method that's what we're here to tell you find your safe place find your method if you in chelsea's uh viewpoint check her out we're gonna list all her contact information we definitely thank you for being on. And of course, I want you to come back for more conversation. I'm waiting on my pillow before I make any yes or no.

So I'm going to get your pillow out to you and then we will... You know what? I'm going to TikTok the pillow going into the box. We're going to get you your pillow. Can you tag me in the little pillow boxing situation? Yes, yes i'm gonna do that and then i'm gonna tag you as i put a pink easel sticker in a box be like now we're gonna send this

so he can learn what an easel is and now you said it on national internet ism so the internet is forever right so you said it so i want my pink sticker now. Okay. And I'm going to send you a pillow and we're going to talk about you coming back on. And we're going to quiz him. Which one of these pictures do you want to eat? I really do think I know what you're talking about. Okay. Or C. Anyway. Any last

words for the people? Any last words for our audience? No. Okay. I mean, I said a lot of words i feel like because you're gonna come back on so they're gonna save it for the next time but we thank you so much chelsea and i thank everybody for watching and we will see you soon or listening or listening because i forget that people just about accessibility inclusivity right Right. So to everybody, peace and blessings.