Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques - 171. Advice from Nontraditional Storytellers Part 2

Episode Date: November 28, 2024

Make your audience a part of the story.Great storytellers don't just relay information — they create experiences. As magicians, TikTok influencers, and stand-up comedians, these masters of engagement know that true connection happens when you make your audience a part of the story.In part two of this special series on storytelling, host Matt Abrahams explores the art of audience connection with an extraordinary lineup. For magician Alex Moffat, it’s about immersive performance. “How can I get the audience to not [just] sit there watching? They've got to be able to feel it too,” he says. As TikTok's head of creator marketing, Kudzi Chikumbu says authenticity is everything. "Be your authentic self. Show yourself in a way that other people don't." And for standup comedian Orlando Leyba, it’s about leveraging presence and responsiveness to transform a performance into a genuine conversation.In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, discover how these engagement experts create stories that don't just inform or entertain — they forge genuine connections with every audience member.Episode Reference Links:Alex MoffatKudzi ChikumbuOrlando Leyba Ep.168 How Story Can Change Everything in Your CareerEp.50 Telling Good Stories: How to Use the Elements of Narrative to Keep Listeners Engaged Connect:Premium Signup >>> Think Fast Talk Smart PremiumEmail Questions & Feedback >>> [e-mail] Transcripts >>> Think Fast Talk Smart WebsiteNewsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>> FasterSmarter.ioThink Fast Talk Smart >>> LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTubeMatt Abrahams >>> LinkedInChapters:(00:00) - Introduction (02:42) - Linear vs. Nonlinear Storytelling (06:08) - Tools for Engaging an Audience (09:33) - Key Ingredients of a Good Story (11:22) - Authenticity in Storytelling (13:45) - Description in Storytelling (14:12) - Positivity in Storytelling (17:45) - Engaging Through Presence (19:22) - Conclusion ********Thank you to our sponsors.  These partnerships support the ongoing production of the podcast, allowing us to bring it to you at no cost.Strawberry.me. Get 50% off your first coaching session today at Strawberry.me/smartJoin our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community and become the communicator you want to be. 

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Writing a story without thinking about your audience first is like writing a love letter and addressing it to whom it may concern. Ken Hamer, who originated that quote, is right on. If we don't know our audiences, we can't connect our story to them. We can't make it engaging. A story will fall flat if it doesn't have a targeted audience. My name is Matt Abrams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. I am so excited to be back for our second episode

in our unconventional, non-traditional, storyteller series. In our first episode, we talked about how we need to structure and frame our content to really make it clear and concise for our audience. We talked to a trial lawyer and a cartoonist. Today, we're going to look at how to make our stories engaging and compelling. Our first conversation in today's episode is with Alex Moffat. He's a magician from the UK who's currently living in Sydney,

and he's been performing magic since he was seven years old. Let's listen in to hear what tricks he pulls out of his hat to help us all be better storytellers. So in magic, there's a couple of ways magicians go. You can have a linear route or a non-linear routes. And a linear route would just be like, pick a card, put it back in the pack, shuffle it. Tadda, I found it, you know, and that might be baffling, it might be interesting, it might be how did you do that?

But it's not necessarily entertaining, there isn't really a story to it. Alternatively, the nonlinear route, which involves the misdirection, attention, focus, etc. And emotion is where I might go, hey, Matt, what's your favourite card? And you name it. Hey, would you take that out and draw a picture on it? Sign your name on it. It's yours now. one in the world that exists like this. And then five or six different effects happen. But then

rather than just go, Tadda, it then multiplies into three of them, which is impossible because you only created one. Then they all instantly disappear. And then I throw and spring the cards at the window in the restaurant or hotel wherever we are, a person's house. The cards cascade to the floor. And one card was left stuck to the window with the back facing everyone. I asked the person to go up and get it. They go up and get it, but they can't take it off the window because they realize it's on the other side of the glass, outside the building. They have to run out, go and get it it as they peel it off the window. They wave at all their friends, and then they come running back in to a round of applause. That's their signed card. And that has meaning. It's a journey.

The card went on a journey, but there's connection to it with the person, their favorite. They created a piece of art on it. Theirs. And then magical things happen. And of course, an impossible ending that's memorable. Just go straight to the point where there's a piece of no story, or you can go off on these tangents and journeys and make it meaningful and connected to them. One that I've recently performed for the very first time in recent keynotes is the rubber hand illusion. So it's an example on neuroplasticity and how easy it is to rewire the brain very quickly. So I get a volunteer on stage. I've got this rubber hand, and I have this little box that they put their real hand under, the rubber hand on top, and I simultaneously with a paintbrush

just stroke their real hand underneath the box that they can't see, and the same finger of the rubber hand that they can see. And almost instantly, the brain starts to cause that rubber hand to be associated as their own. My problem was that there was only one person on stage experiencing it and feeling it. So how can I get the audience to not sit there bored going, oh, well, they're enjoying this and we're just sat watching. They've got to be able to feel it too. So I've moved into things where I asked them if they feel like they could raise their finger, would it raise on a rubber hand? And they go, it does feel like I could move this hand. And then I asked them to just move their left index finger and then the rubber hand index finger moves up by itself as they are doing it.

And so that freaks them out, but freaks the audience out, of course, because it's this loose rubber hand that I've shown. Alex is a true master of engagement. To me, engagement is all about sustaining people's attention. Attention is the most precious commodity we have in the world today. And if you can keep that attention, you have somebody engaged. And as a magician, it's all about managing attention. And you can hear the level of detail and thought that Alex puts into it. And he leverages story to help his audience focus their attention and be engaged. There are many ways to engage in audience. You can engage an audience through description, vivid description. You can engage an audience by playing with their curiosity and surprise, and certainly Alex does both. You can also leverage

physicality. If you see a magician on stage, there's movement. He's moving around. He's asking you to watch things so that physicality gets you engaged. There's the language you use. Is it inclusive? Using the word you, us or we, getting people to envision things in their mind, as Alex often does, through asking questions. These are powerful tools to help your audience get engaged. Now, we don't have to be a performer on a stage. We can leverage these tools in a meeting. We can leverage the storytelling best practices in our everyday conversation. Bringing your audience into that moment, helping them see it, feel it, that's what gets engagement. It's also critical when engaging our audience to make sure that we are efficient with people's time. And we have to be

clear and concise. And that's where our conversation with Kudzi Chukumbo, who's the head of creator marketing at TikTok, and an influencer who goes by the name Sir Candleman, where he focuses on fragrance and beauty. In a world of short-form video, which, you know, where TikTok started, you can actually upload longer videos on TikTok as well over a minute and more. But I still find what keeps people engaged in the story, whether it's 15 seconds, 30 seconds, 1 minute, 5 minute, 10 minute plus is the same thing. You need to make every second count, which used to be the old TikTok lingo and motto. Now it's inspire creativity and bring joy. but in 15 seconds, that same hero's journey applies to 10 minutes.

Meaning, in 15 seconds, what people want to know is, what is this video about, what is the problem, why are you the person to tell me, and how can you help me? Find the perfect fragrance for when you are out on the town and trying to find a boyfriend. And I'm Sir Candleman, your fragrance curator. They know I'm the expert. I'm going to tell them this thing.

These are three fragrances by this one, because XYZ. I can do that in 30 seconds, but I can also give you a deep dive of fragrance for an hour. Same applies to marketers. You can do the 15 second, 30 second cut, 60 second ad spot, which should effectively help people understand what your product or service is and why they should engage with it. Well, you can do the big brand story, documentary, creative exercise, but should still do the same thing. So in all of those things, back to make every second count, no part of that video, whether 15 seconds or 15 minutes, should be wasted time. I'm wondering, if you can just summarize for us, what are the key ingredients from your perspective of a good story? I would say a good

story has a strong hook or reason to be listened to or heard. I think it has a strong entry point for the listener, the viewer, the reader to find themselves in the story. It has enough conflict or a challenge that they're trying to solve. So a problem for this person. And then it has a clear arc and revolution where you help them achieve the thing you promised in the beginning or refer them on to someone else. So especially in short form video land, to make this example concrete or social media, wherever people are posting. When people come across your post a video,

why might I stop? Like, what is there that's making me stop? Two, who are you and how do I relate to you? Meaning then I want to watch and learn more. And three, how are you helping me solve, whatever it is that I came to you for or entertain me, inspire me, inform me? And then three, do I actually get to that resolution?

So those are the key parts. You can do them fast. You can do them slow. And I would say for people looking for a bonus tip, especially in a world where there's so much content online and you want to shine through, you need to have personality. And people would be like, what does that mean?

It means you just need to be your authentic self. By that, I mean, like, truly be passionate and truly speak in the way you speak in the way that other people don't speak. It's okay to show yourself in the way that other people don't see because that's how you cut through so much of the same content. Otherwise, you're just another video in a way that. deluge of videos. The other thing that Kudzi does, and I have a little insight as a former student of

mine, he is amazingly authentic. He is who he is, regardless of if he's in his role as the head of creator marketing at TikTok or if he's in the role of Sir Candleman, he is who he is. And authenticity is really important. We connect with people we see as real, not people who are putting on pretense or hiding behind something. So it's not just the story you tell. It's the authenticity you bring to the story.

And that's true in any kind of messaging. If you are trying to be persuasive, if you're trying to be inspirational, being authentic really truly can help. And that's that in and of itself is the definition of engagement. He's got the attention and we see in his stories and his information ourselves. And that's really a powerful way of engaging. We'll be right back to finish our conversation. But first, a quick word from one of our sponsors. Their support allows us to bring you this show free of charge. If you've ever felt like you're trying to do everything yourself, especially when the stakes are high, you're not alone. One of the biggest shifts I see in effective leaders growing their organizations comes from focusing on the right things. But that's hard to do when you're stretched thin. You need to be able to delegate some tasks to competent professionals. That's where Upwork can, really help. Upwork is a one-stop platform to find, hire, and pay expert freelancers across areas like

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And now back to our conversation. Another powerful way of engaging is to really focus in on how you deliver the message you deliver. And no one is better if focusing on delivery and timing than stand-up comedians. Our final conversation is with Orlando Laba, who is a stand-up comedian. He has performed multiple times on The Tonight Show at Jimmy Fallon, and he's not only funny, but he actually tells stories that matter and finds the humor in them. And he does so in a very descriptive way that really pulls us in. Let's hear a story that Orlando tells that's not only funny, but educational.

The story goes, I'm on the road. I fly home to visit my mother. I grew up in South Florida, tropical place. Some people feel like they need to have a passport when they're in South Florida. And I decided to drive around the old neighborhoods. I borrow my mother's car and I get pulled over by the cops. Nothing new that happens, you know. What was strange about this cop was that it was a bicycle cop.

Right. And I didn't know they could do that. I didn't know they could pull carts over. I thought they were strictly sidewalk action. Maybe someone's getting away by the mall. And I didn't know they could do that. He knocked on my window, scared the bejesus out of me. And he yelled at me, pull it over.

He had a little light. He had a little light. So I pulled it over. When I pulled over, he finally pulls up next to me. I rolled down my window. He had the typical cop talk. He was talking the cop talk. And he was like, do you, do you, do you know how fast you were going?

And I was like, clearly not fast enough. And that's the beginning of that story. He did not like that. He put down into a kickstand and he got off that bike. What did you say to me? And that's part of a lot, that's the beginning of a very long journey. journey with that bicycle cop. And it goes on and it's very funny.

But one of the things that I respect so much about your work is you keep a very positive energy. How much of that is a conscious choice for you to be positive? And how does that impact the stories you tell? You know, I just, I was in, I don't want to say the place, but I was in a place where they grow a lot of corn. And all the audiences were good. except one show, two young men and their farmers. And their energy was our girlfriends or fiancés dragged us here to see you. They find you fun.

I don't think you're fun. And it took me a solid 20 minutes to get them on my side. To get them to uncross their arms, release. Lower the testosterone level. Right. Because they were younger guys also. Yeah. It's like I don't, I don't mean.

They were doing pistol hand gestures. Oh, wow. I'm talking about how I defend myself with pepper spray. Yes, yes. Because it's non-lethal. Everybody gets to go home. You're going to have to rinse your eyes out for two or three hours, but everybody goes home. And they're like, he's like, not me.

You know, he's doing hand gestures. And one of them was like, not me. And he does a hand gesture. Like, I just use my. my weapon. Yeah. And then I'm like, yeah, that's a, you got to live with that. I told them.

Yeah. You're saying that, but it's like, have you ever, and I asked, have you ever been put in a situation where you've had to use? Right. He's like, no. I said, I know cops. Right. I know cops that have had to.

They have quit the force because of the mental trauma of it. Right. You know? And they're just supposedly defending their lives at the time, you know. And I was like, nah. Yeah. It strikes me, I mean, I find this fascinating. You know, you're a performer.

Yes. And yet it sounds to me like you're doing more than performing there. You're actually trying to connect and maybe even teach a lesson in it. I don't say teaching a lesson. That's for everybody's journey. Yeah. I just, one of the things that I feel is going to get me to where I want to go with this career is a fact that be present.

Yeah. Be present. And respond to what's happening. Yes. I'm not just staying quiet while you talk waiting for me just so I could just say what I want to say. I want to listen. Right. You know, that's why I'm able, I think you might have seen it there.

I'm able to get off the whole joke. Right. Address a situation that's happening in real time. Yeah. And then come back and put the train right back on the tracks. We talk about storytelling. And we've talked a lot in this episode in the one prior about story. But it's also about the telling.

And I think he is a great example of how you have a strong presence. And he even talks about it, how he has to be present and listen and in the moment. Because his audience is not just responding to him. He's responding to them. That's what true engagement is. It's where both parties are equally involved. He varies his voice. He slows his pace.

He speeds it up. When you see him perform live, which I have, he uses his body in terms of his gesturing. The actual telling, the way he shows, is critical so that nonverbal presence really matters. And I think this brings us full circle. We've talked about story. In our first episode, we talked about how we frame the story, how we think about our audience, how we think about emotion. And in the second episode, we've talked about how we actually engage in the tools of engagement. We've talked about it through the eyes of a cartoonist, a magician, a social media influencer, as well as a comedian.

And they're all teaching us that by engaging the audience, being present, we form a connection. That connection has a physiological root to it. There are neurochemicals released, but there's also an emotional connection. And I really appreciate these learnings. And I think we can apply them all to our everyday communication. As we wrap up this two-part, think fast, talk, smart series on unconventional, non-traditional, non-traditional storytellers, one of the things I hope everyone is taking away is that stories are hidden in plain sight. You've heard from several non-traditional storytellers.

There are many that we encounter every day. I challenge all of us to look for the stories, look for the means by which people are telling those stories. How are they structuring them? How are they engaging us? Learn from those and begin to use those techniques in your own authentic way in your communication, in your storytelling. And in so doing, we will all become more efficient,

more effective, and more engaging in our communication. Thank you for listening to this Think Fast Talk Smart mini-series. This episode was produced by Jim Colgan, Jenny Luna, and me, Matt Ibrahounds. Mix engineering by Mumble Media. Special thanks to Don Frazier of the Stanford Storytelling Project. If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more about storytelling, please check out episode 168 with Matthew Dix and episode 50 with Paula Moya.

You can hear complete episodes with some of our guests in this miniseries through our premium offering at FasterSmarter.io slash premium. Find more of our episodes on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts, and check out FasterSmartter.com for deep dive videos. English language learning content and our newsletter. Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives.

It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of Think Fast Talk Smart.