Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques - 228. Negotiate Your Way to Success: Empathy, Mirroring, and Labeling

Episode Date: September 9, 2025

Be ready, stay grounded, and communicate clearly — no matter what’s at stake.Communicating under pressure isn’t just a useful skill — it can be the difference between escalation and resolution. For Chris Voss, former FBI hostage negotiator and CEO of The Black Swan Group, it’s a daily discipline built on empathy, self-regulation, and intentional listening. In this expanded conversation from our Spontaneous Speaking miniseries, Voss offers a rare window into the mindset and methods that helped him show up calm, focused, and adaptable when the pressure is sky-high.“Emotional intelligence is an insane accelerator to outcomes,” Voss shares, explaining how empathy, tone, and timing can shift the direction of any conversation. He breaks down techniques like labeling and mirroring, explores how to use silence and word choice strategically, and explains why overthinking can be just as risky as acting too fast. From gut-level pattern recognition to tactical use of voice, Voss shows how communication becomes more impactful when we’re not trying to control — but to connect.In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Voss and host Matt Abrahams dive into how negotiation techniques developed for life-or-death situations can be applied far beyond them — offering powerful takeaways for anyone who needs to think clearly under pressure, stay agile in the moment, and communicate effectively when it matters most.Episode Reference Links:Chris Voss Chris’s Book: Never Split the Difference Ep.197 Prep or Perish: Mastering In-the-Moment Communication (1 of 3)Ep.198 Pause and Effect: Mastering In-the-Moment Communication (2 of 3)Ep.199 Blunder Pressure: Mastering In-the-Moment Communication (3 of 3)Ep.203 No Script, No Problem: Final Secrets to Speaking Under Pressure (Bonus)   Connect:Premium Signup >>>> Think Fast Talk Smart PremiumEmail Questions & Feedback >>> [e-mail] Transcripts >>> Think Fast Talk Smart WebsiteNewsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>> FasterSmarter.ioThink Fast Talk Smart >>> LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTubeMatt Abrahams >>> LinkedInChapters:(00:00) - Introduction (02:52) - Path to Hostage Negotiation (03:44) - Power of Emotional Intelligence (05:02) - Staying Calm Under Pressure (06:12) - Mental Prep & Mindset (07:20) - Trusting Your Gut (08:00) - Avoiding Overthinking (09:03) - Flexibility in Negotiations (10:17) - Listen More, Talk Less (10:33) - Labeling & Mirroring (12:53) - Tone Shapes Impact (14:08) - The Final Three Questions (19:04) - Conclusion ********Thank you to our sponsors.  These partnerships support the ongoing production of the podcast, allowing us to bring it to you at no cost.Strawberry.me. Get 50% off your first coaching session today at Strawberry.me/smartJoin our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community and become the communicator you want to be. 

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While most communication situations are not life and death, sometimes they can be. We can all learn to handle the pressure when under the gun. My name is Matt Abrams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. As part of our four-part mini-series on spontaneous speaking, we introduced you to a number of coaches whose jobs require successful in-the-moment communication. So many of our listeners found value in our coach's advice that we wanted to provide you with an opportunity to hear our complete interviews. So today I'm excited for you to learn from Chris Voss.

Chris is a former FBI lead international kidnapping and hostage negotiator. He is the CEO of the Black Swan Group and co-author of Never Split the Difference, Negotiating as if your life depended on it. Let's jump right in and learn from Chris. Chris, welcome. I look forward to our conversation. Thank you. Yeah, so do I. Let's go on an expiration here. All right. So for over 20 years, you were a lead FBI hostage negotiator. What trainings and experience led you into that role?

When I specifically began to train for it was when I volunteered on a crisis slash suicide hotline in New York City. I was told the best preparation was to volunteer on a suicide hotline, and as it turned out, that was the case. And then after that, you go to the FPI's two-week school at Quantico. If you're a hostage negotiator anywhere on Earth, the training of Quantico is one of the trainings you want to go to. And I loved it. And I stayed volunteering on the crisis hotline for a couple more years after that. And I did a lot of teaching, but a lot of it is then self-directed and recognized that it's

a perishable skill and not letting it perish. What were one or two of the key things you learned from the work? you did with the suicide hotline and maybe even Quantico, what were a couple of the skills they taught you that you think were invaluable to the role you have? What I learned was emotional intelligence is an insane accelerator to outcomes. We speculate that the application of empathy accelerates you to wherever you're going to go 14 times faster. And I kind of got an inkling of that on a suicide hotline when they first said, there's a 20-minute time limit on all calls. Like, you've got to be kidding me. They're anecdotal stories all the time of people being on a phone overnight, staying up all night trying to talk people out of kidding themselves.

How can you do this in 20 minutes? And they said, well, as a matter of fact, if you're doing it right, it won't take that long. And that ended up being the case. And, you know, I learned emotional intelligence. They called it reflective listening at the time. This is early 1990s. It's derivative of a psychologist named Carl Rogers. But I remember using it on the hotline thinking, like, if this is this effective with people in

crisis, why doesn't everybody in my life deserve it? Why don't the, my family, my friends, my colleagues, people I arrest deserve empathy as an FBI agent. And in point of fact, I started applying it on everything that I did. You know, you've negotiated in incredibly high pressure situations where life is on the line. How do you stay calm and collected? You know, anything that looks easy, that somebody makes look easy, they put a lot of time in. Now, I really started on the suicide hotline. They would put us on the lines while we were still in training. About halfway through training, they taught us enough to put us on the line supervised.

There's somebody right there. Take the phone out of your hand if you start saying stupid stuff to the person on the other hand, which is entirely possible because advice is usually counterproductive. It's short circuits their thinking process. So the first time that I was on the line, I remember, saying, hello, this is Helpline. Just like that. Supervisor said, your tone of voice is great. That was great. And so I thought, okay, well, I got to repeat that. You break it down into small pieces. You practice it live. And then you practice it in small stakes interactions. I mean,

I got to practice these skills today. It's not bike riding. I got to practice every day or my skills deteriorate. So it's the notion of practice and finding opportunities that are low stakes. to really work on that and to keep those skills fresh. And it sounds like, at least early on, you had a direct mentor sitting there, giving you feedback and advice as you went. And that's also important, I believe. Before you go into a negotiation or a high-stakes situation like that,

do you do anything to prepare yourself? Do you do some deep breathing, some centering? What do you do to prepare when you walk into one of these situations? I do as sort of daily prep because I never know when a high-press situation is going to come at me. So the cliches, the gratitude exercise first thing in the morning, the phraseology that, you know, this is happening for me, not to me, calms you down in the moment. You got to practice that. When I was on a, as a hostage negotiator, I had just relied on the process so much that I was good. You know, I don't know sure how this is going to come

out, but the best outcome is if I just follow the process that I know, you know, use the skills and let it go where it may. So it sounds like there was a bit of a ritual to your practice. It sounds like you continue that practice, but it's really about relying on what you have done and know that you can get through it. When you're under pressure, how do you quickly gather information and adjust your approach? I mean, you constantly must be reading the circumstances and then making adjustments. Do you have things you use to help you make those decisions? Are you using some kind of pattern recognition? Your gut does the pattern recognition. It's not a conscious process. So when you get to the point where you can lean back enough to let your gut kick in, then you're going to be fine.

Many of us in these high-stakes situations, clearly different than the high-stakes situations you've lived through. We get in our head and we overthink. Do you have ways that help you turn down that volume of overthinking? I'm reading Creativity Inc. by Ed Catmull, the guy who found a Pixar. And he says, you know, the overthinkers make mistakes at the same rate as the people that are quick to pull the trigger. It just takes them longer to make the mistakes because they're overthinking it. And I thought that makes all the sense in the world. You know, the entrepreneurial organizations who are really operating on gut instinct, they say, you know, make the mistake now, gather the data, fail fast, move forward, you see it over and over and over again. And it never

even occurred to me that the overthinkers would not be any more effective than the quick to pull the trigger. It would just take them longer. And that insight in Ed's book just really sort of opened my eyes to the dangers, the perils of overthinking. Let's talk a little bit more about that when when things don't go as you expected them to go in the moment are there ways in which you quickly adjust and adapt or do you just stay the course and keep things going forward even if it didn't happen or occur the way you wanted it to what do you do when things don't go the way you planned the first thing is to realize there is no course if you only imagine there's one course then you're going to stick to it when all the data is telling you you're wrong so and

kidnapped negotiations, I'd show up in an embassy and they'd say, how's this going to work out? It's going to work out one of five ways. And we got to go along for the ride and see which one it is. You know, that would keep me from getting married to a course. So to recognize that it's your desire to want to think of one path, you're already limiting yourself because never be so sure of what you want that you wouldn't take something better. If you can maintain that flexibility in a moment, then you're going to do really well. I think that is such important advice and insight that there is no one right way.

There are many ways. And staying open and agile and curious is what allows you to adjust and adapt as things happen. Amen. What rules or guidelines do you follow in your messaging when you communicate in negotiations? Yeah, in general terms, you know, he or she who talks most losers. If you're explaining, you're losing, you should probably be listening five times when you're talking. Right. And it's really about the understanding that what you are saying or not saying has an impact in that moment on what's going on.

I'd like to get into, if you don't mind, sharing some more detail about two specific skills that you mentioned earlier. You mentioned labeling and you mentioned mirroring. Would you mind taking a moment to just share what each of those skills are and the value they bring to you and the work that you do? The value of brain? Yeah, the value of labeling. and of mirroring. All right. So I just married you.

And I fell right for it. Well, because it feels natural. Mirroring is a delightful skill, which is repeating generally the last one to three-ish words of what somebody has said. It could be one word. It really shouldn't be more than five. And it's just repeating them word for word. And in any given communication, and you touched on a little bit before, you know, what's

said, what's unsaid. And the other side, what they hear. is, oh, okay, he got what I wanted to say, but he needs a fuller explanation. And so you're drawn to it and you give fuller explanations. It's actually much more effective than saying to somebody, what did you mean by that? It doesn't require a lot of mental energy. The return of investment of what you said versus how much you hear is insane. And that's why they like it, because I just got to say three words. The other side will talk for 10 minutes. Now, the label is just slapping a label.

on the dynamic or the emotion or a hidden dynamic. Again, I'm coaching a client earlier, and they got a vendor that they're dealing with who's going to make all kinds of excuses for why they couldn't get stuff done. And I said, well, the label here is, it sounds like you're telling me you're incompetent. And it's got to be delivered just like that.

I hesitated. You know, I did an upward inflection. I just, what are you telling me? If you're a professional and you agreed on a job, and then you came back afterwards of all kinds of excuses, somewhere along the line, what you're telling me is you didn't know what you were doing. And the important thing about a label is it's got to be a dynamic the other side introduces. You cannot introduce it. The other side has to introduce it. Then it's fair game. What's interesting to me, I mean, you did a great job describing it, so I don't feel like I have to re-explain it. But what's interesting to me is how important the way in which you say your mirror or label plays out in it.

So it's not just the words. It's the way you say those words. So that combination of nonverbal presence and the verbal presence matter in this. And a lot of us fixate on just the words. And what I'm hearing you say is it's much more than that. Being in law enforcement, then I'm always going to come up with law enforcement analogies. And so tone is like the rifling on a bullet. Now, a bullet comes out of a barrel, and there are things inside of the barrel of a gun called lands

and grooves that actually spin the bullet so that when it comes out, it goes in a straight line. It's the same thing as when you throw a baseball, you spin the ball. A baseball pitch with no spin is called a knuckleball, and that thing goes all over the place, and nobody knows where the hell it's going to land. And so for your words to hit the target, you know, the very label I used before, I could say, it sounds like you're telling me you're incompetent. Now, that's an insult, that tone of voice is an accent. It's insulting.

But if I say, it sounds like you're telling me you're compliment? Same words. Right. Land a thousand percent different. One of the things, Chris, I really appreciating is you've done a really nice job of using analogies. And analogies are really useful. Well, I don't know much about guns and bullets. It's very clear that spin matters.

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questions that I'm asking everybody who's part of this miniseries on spontaneous speaking. Are you up for doing that? Let's go for it. See what I happen. Chris, I'd love to know who is a communicator you admire and why? Kyle for Winfrey. Tell me why. So she has dealt with some of the most volatile people on planet Earth. I've had some very specific conversations relayed to me in detail. where she has taken celebrities to the woodshed over their behavior. I mean, she's the ability to maintain relationships even with differences of opinion. I'm a big fan. I'm a huge fan. Question number two, while those listening in likely aren't going to have to speak in situations like you do,

what advice would you give for them to speak better in the moment in general? Just take your time. There's so much of an advantage. Why you're speaking to slow down a little? you know, let the moment play out. Some people take their time in speaking because they're determined to maintain control of the conversation. They'll only pause mid-sentence so they don't get interrupted. So slowing the conversation down so you can absorb more information so you can be more in the moment.

It's not the same with slowing down to stay in control. If you slow down to be more connected with somebody in the moment, to hear them, to make them feel hurt, you give yourself time to analyze in the moment. going to be a much better communicator. This notion of pausing and slowing things down, I think, is really, really important. I want to add an exclamation point to that. In these spontaneous speaking situations, we feel such pressure to respond immediately. And you remind us that slowing down actually affords us lots of opportunity. Final question for you. I want to switch roles on you. I'm the professor, but I'm going to have you be the professor. I'd like you to give me some homework.

What is one communication thing that you would encourage me to do in my life that simulates the things that you do so I can get better in your case with negotiations and handling high pressure situations? Is there one thing you'd give me homework to practice? Spend a day with whatever somebody says to you say, seems like you have a reason for saying that. Somebody says, hey, man, what a sunny day. Seems like you got a reason for saying it. somebody says to you, you know, if you don't vote for so-and-so, you're betraying the American people. Seems like you've got a reason for saying that. Just give yourself a day to experiment with that phrase, no matter what people say.

You can come back with your opinion, your observation. It doesn't preclude you for any of the natural things you want to say. I promise you, you spend a day doing that. You were going to have four or five conversations, just the vast majority of them, are going to open up in ways you didn't imagine possible. I really like that. It opens up the door for more information to come out. So there's more data, as you've talked about.

My mother-in-law, who I believe had a black belt in small talk, she used to say, tell me more. Yeah, it's encouraging. Exactly. Chris, this has been fantastic. You've given us lots of insight into how empathy can be an accelerant and really encouraging us to slow down, be present, and respond not in one course or one way,

but be open to responding in a way that's needed in the moment. Thank you so much. A pleasure was mine. Thanks for having me on. Thank you so much for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. To learn more from our spontaneous speaking coaches, listen to our four-part mini-series, episodes 197, 198, 199, and 203.

You can also go to FasterSmarter.comer. slash spontaneous. This episode was produced by Catherine Reed, Michael Riley, and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder. With thanks to Podium Podcast Company, be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also, follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram, and check out FasterSmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter. Please consider our premium offering for extended deep thanks episodes,

Ask Matt Anythings, and much more at FasterSmarter.io slash premium. Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives. It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of Think Fast Talk Smart.