Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques - 302. Master This: How to Learn Like the Experts Do

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

"If these masters are still continually trying to improve their own craft, I don't have any excuses."The world's best don't reach the top and stop learning—they keep refining their craft. David Rogier, founder and CEO of MasterClass, has spent years sitting across from elite performers, athletes, artists, and entrepreneurs—and he’s discovered that excellence is less about talent than a relentless commitment to growth. In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, he joins Matt Abrahams to share lessons from building a company around learning, persuasion, and communication. From earning the trust of high-profile talent to leading creative and technical teams, Rogier reveals why curiosity, adaptability, and authentic relationship-building are essential communication skills.Takeaways:Lead with curiosity. Build trust by asking thoughtful questions and focusing on the other person's needs, not your own. Never stop improving. The world's top performers continuously seek feedback, refine their skills, and embrace lifelong learning.Activity:Study an expert. Watch a communicator you admire—a speaker, leader, or interviewer—and identify three techniques they use to engage their audience. Try incorporating one of those techniques into your next presentation or meeting.Episode Reference Links:David RogierMatt’s MasterClassConnect:Premium Signup >>>> Think Fast Talk Smart PremiumEmail Questions & Feedback >>> [e-mail] Transcripts >>> Think Fast Talk Smart WebsiteNewsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>> FasterSmarter.ioThink Fast Talk Smart >>> LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTubeMatt Abrahams >>> LinkedInChapters:(00:00) - Introduction (00:39) - The Power of Learning (01:28) - Building Trust (04:21) - Creating Great Content (07:23) - Leading Different Teams (09:45) - Learning from Masters (10:54) - Communicating with a Stutter (14:00) - The Final Three Questions (17:39) - Conclusion ********Thank you to our sponsors.  These partnerships support the ongoing production of the podcast, allowing us to bring it to you at no cost.Strawberry.me. Get 50% off your first coaching session today at Strawberry.me/smart

Hi, Matt here. I wanted to remind you that for each episode, we provide English language learning support, where we share useful information to help you develop your English skills. Check out these English language learning and other resources, along with our newsletter and deep dive videos at FasterSmarter.io under Resources. Now a word from our sponsors. Their support covers the cost of production, allowing us to bring you this episode free of charge. Strawberry.me makes coaching accessible, affordable, and global, connecting you with a coach who's the right fit for you. I've had the privilege of working with some truly great coaches, and I've also spent many years coaching others, and I can tell you firsthand, coaching makes a real difference. The challenge is that coaching has often felt out of reach for a lot of people. It can be expensive, difficult to access,

or something people assume is only for senior executives. That's why I really appreciate what Strawberry is doing. Growth shouldn't depend on whether you happen to have access to the right mentor or organization. Everyone deserves support and becoming more effective, more thoughtful, and more confident in how they show up. Visit strawberry.comme slash smart and take 50% of your first session. Make sure you let them know Matt sent you that's strawberry.combe slash smart. And now back to our conversation. To truly hone and master a skill, we have to take the time to learn from experts. My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. Today I look forward to chatting with

David Rozier. David is the founder and CEO of Masterclass, the streaming platform that makes it possible for anyone to learn from the world's best. David is passionate about democracy. advertising access to genius level knowledge. Well, David, thank you so much for joining me. I'm really excited for our conversation. Shall we get started? Sure. So to begin, I am a avid participant and student of masterclass. And thanks to you and your team, I'm honored that I have a master class course coming out on strategic communication. And so thank you for that. It was a lot of fun and I hope everybody gets a lot of value out of it. Like me, you are very passionate about education. I'd like to start by asking you what motivates you to help others learn and develop skills?

I was raised in part by my grandmother, and my grandmother escaped the Holocaust. And I think one of the things that she really instilled in me, the education is the only thing that someone can't take away from somebody else. And I think I really internalized that at a very young age. That definitely drove me to create master class, but also I think probably fueled my zest for. for learning. Excellent. And you've brought that learning to lots and lots of people. In the early days of master class, you had to convince world-class talent to trust you a small startup. How did you think about pitching what you were doing to people of that nature? I assumed that it was a function the same way as in the business world. In the business world, if you know somebody in common with

somebody else, the person makes an introduction, you will usually talk to them. It's not how it works in the entertainment industry. In fact, it's designed to do the opposite. Every celebrity has four to five people whose job it is is to not let you do that. So every celebrity has an agent, a manager, a PR person, so as a financial advisor, and usually a spouse. Now, of those five people, only one of them has actual influence over that person. But the job of the other four is to convince you that it's them. but it's not. It's only one of them.

And if you go to the wrong person, you're going to get a fast no. So part of the craft was to just learn that. Two was then to figure out who is that one of the five. And then how do I pitch that one of the five? And what I had to learn was that I have to get them to like me and trust me. And I could do that in a few ways. I could associate and attach myself to people on the project and bring them in who they trust.

So these were film directors they had already worked with before or film directors I'd won an Oscar before. Because even about their fear is like, is this person going to look bad? And so how do you drop that risk? Two was, you have to get them to actually like you and trust you. And I had to learn the craft of that. And I think I walked into those early rooms thinking, I'm pretty special. I have a master's degree from Stanford. My mom says I'm amazing.

This idea is going to change the world of education. People don't care about that. People care about themselves. And so it was much more effective for me to ask them questions. A lot of questions. And when somebody asks you questions about things that you want to talk about, you like them more. Now, I think there's a craft to what questions you ask. You have to do it something that you're actually interested in because otherwise people feel that instantly.

So I'm glad to have more of that, but I think there is a craft to how to pitch and a lot of that is relationship building for this. many rich things there that you talked about. First, you have to start by really appreciating the circumstance and those who have access and influence to the people that you're trying to persuade or motivate. You have to think about how you approach them. In your case, it was about derisking the reputation and really coming from a place of authentic curiosity to get them talking. And I think we can all benefit from that in anything we're pitching or in any relationship. And you've been quite successful at it. Having been in the chair, for a master class certificates.

I have witnessed firsthand the production quality. That seems to be very important to you and to your team to make sure that it really has an aesthetic and a look. Talk to me about where that comes from and how those listening who aren't going to have access to the crews and the expertise that you have, how important is it to really think through the visuals, the experience, even for those of us

who are just doing virtual calls and video conferencing? Part of our success is that our classes do not look like a class. They look like a Netflix movie. Now, it's not just the look. It's also then the production value, how engaging it is, and all those other things. I had filmed some stuff on my own for test shoots, and they looked horrible. And so we went to our friends and people we knew. And one of the first people we went to was actually a professor here at Stanford.

heard, his name is Professor Bill Gutintag. He's an Oscar-winning film director. And I got introduced to him and I was like, hey, I'm really stuck. Our stuff looks bad. You know, I was like, any advice, what types of people, what type of gear? And he's like, you're not going to ask me to shoot? And I'm like, you're willing to shoot? He's like, this sounds awesome.

So Bill shot a bunch of our first classes. And that really up-leveled us. The other person was Jay Roach, who had a really big impact on that, too. It also shot some of our first few classes. I think that did a couple things. One is to achieve what we wanted to on the engagement side and how good it looked. Two, it brought down the risk for the instructors. Because if Bill Goodentog and Jay Roach are going to film this, I've seen their stuff.

It's really good. Okay, I know I'm going to look pretty good. So if you're at home doing this, I think think a lot about what is the form factor supposed to be. So, for example, if it's live Zoom calls that you're doing, then it should look like a Zoom call. but I think there's opportunities to make that look good and I think some aren't that expensive to do and I think one of the best ways to figure that out is look at two or three films or TV shows

or YouTube things that you think look really good and break down yourself or find a friend who knows more of you break down how do they make that and oftentimes you're going to be like oh it's the locations actually more important than I thought because the location adds depth, lighting, everything. So you're like, you know what, maybe I should just invest in where I shoot in the time of day. And you're going to start to see things like that.

That's not that expensive, but that actually has a huge impact. Really important point I want to put an exclamation point on, which is think about the environment in which you present yourself. And second, look at and observe others that you enjoy that you think add value and then explore how they do that. And like you said, it's not that expensive. but it can make a tremendous difference. The content is important, but the experience of the content is equally important. I really like that. As a leader, you lead people who are very technical, very content-specific, but also others who are very

creative. That can be hard in terms of management and leadership style to lead people whose goal is the creative and those who are the business and more technical. Any advice and guidance to our listeners who find themselves in a similar role, what helps you manage those different types of people? You have to adapt. I think it helps to go deep with some of them. So if you're working with folks in film, sit in the edit bays with them, watch as sound is mixed, get deep so that you know each step of it and what it takes. In the same way, if it's engineering or mercenary or whatever, I have found that my style has to

change. So on the content side, creatives respond much stronger to a note that, is a high level note. Hey, in this portion, I find my attention is starting to wane. You know, like, why is that? Or what are we able to do about it? And they need just high level note and it's not you solving it for them. It's just the observation. I found, though, like on the marketing side or on the product side, folks like more specific

notes, if you're like, you know, this page, I'm just not feeling to click. They're like, what the hell is that man? Versus like, hey, the call to action, I think isn't bold enough, isn't strong enough. Like, okay, yes, I can work on that. So I found that I have to change the altitude almost. That agility all of us can develop, but it's really the sensitivity to what does this person or these type of people in these roles, what do they respond best to? And I really like this idea of giving feedback through questions and then all. also being able to get very specific to what your experience is and how that relates to perhaps

others. And it's hard because like when I'm tired or frustrated, I just want to say, please change this to this and this to this. And I've done that before. And it's not nearly as effective because the mental shortcut I'm taking is I know more than that person and I don't. And so it feels good at the time. It's easier to do, but it usually ends up a worse result. In the moment, it might feel like it's solving the situation or the problem, but in fact, it might be causing damage in the future. Yes. I know this is a completely unfair question, but across the content that you have created and brought to the world, is there one area or one lesson that you've learned that has really profoundly

impacted you? And we have sat across from 300 of the best in the world, from Christina Aguilera to Steph Curry, to Matt Abrams. And I think I had this assumption that once you reach the top, you just chill. like Christina can sing when she wants to, Steph can play how long he wants to, and that you're in a state where you can choose when to invest time and you don't need to invest that much.

Boy, was I wrong. Every instructor as we film on any cut is asking us for notes. Once the class is done, we're in the testing phase. Instructors want all the input that already gave. Once a class is live, most of them send us an email or call. I'm like, I want to change this.

I think this is able to be improved. And I realize that if these masters are still continuing trying to improve their own craft, I don't have any excuses. Like, I got to keep doing that. And so I think that was a lot of personal growth for me. I think that's a wonderful lesson that the people at the top of their game are still working and striving. And perhaps that's what helped them get to the top of their game. I'd like to get personal.

You and I talked about this a little bit. So you have a stutter. It is something you've had for your whole life. What have you learned about communication through having a stutter and what has it changed? And what advice would you give to people who might have some speech impediment, everything from an accent to a stutter? It was really hard as a kid. I mean, I was teased for it. I think teachers in school didn't know how to handle it.

So some would not call on me because, you know, out of positive intent, but not wanting me to have to speak. When I was called on to read something, if you stutter is very difficult because one of the tools you use is you substitute work. and you can't do that when you read something. I think what it made me throughout my life is my empathy for people and expressing themselves is much higher. I think I'm much more aware of speech. And I told you, I think one of the things I started doing as a kid was watching people give speeches and just being more aware of the mechanics that they use.

So I became much more obsessed with it. I think my approach, I think my parents had a big impact on was, you know, when I was a kid, my parents' approach was, we expect you to talk and communicate. You can stutter and you stutter, but we don't expect you to let that block you from doing anything. And so when they had friends over, the expectation was I would sit with their friends and join them in conversation. And so I think they're very much approach was, I'm going to give you a hug, but you just are going to keep going. So I think that's probably part of my appreciation on the oratory side. that notion of taking what you're dealt with and managing, and I think is important for everybody,

be it an accent, a stutter. I'm noticing a theme, David, across everything we've talked about. Tenacity plays a role. We talked about tenacity in pursuing getting people to sign up when you were just starting out. Tenacity in the work that you admire and the masters you bring on. And tenacity in your own life to just keep going with your communication. And that's something that I think all of us can benefit from. And it will look different for all of us, but it's important. Yeah, I don't think life is worth to live without that. You have to work hard. And I think sometimes surprised us. Like, I remember I was in some group, we an exercise where we would give people feedback on how they, the other person talks. And I was shocked. I got notes on my stutter. And what the group said,

the effects were, it was the opposite of what I had my head. It makes me sound less smart, makes me not get the idea out. People get bored, that people get annoyed, people have an urge to say the word for you. And the people of the group was like, oh, that doesn't go through our head. I'm like, what? I'm like, what does go through your head?

You're like, oh, I'm more endeared to you. Like, I'm seeing this is difficult for you. I'm more like, attach you. I'm like, I'm sorry, what? And it's just for 28 years of my life, I had this one story in my head and that was not the story everybody else was having. And you're like,

and I think that's true for so many of the things that we are insecure about. What a lovely gift to get that. And perhaps there's a lesson in there for all of us to seek out feedback from trusted others who can help us check our assumptions. Because you had an assumption going into this that was contrary to what you learned. We'll be right back to finish our conversation. But first, a quick word from one of our sponsors. Their support allows us to bring you this show free of charge.

This episode is sponsored by Squarespace. We spend a lot of time on this show talking about communication. But one thing we don't discuss as often is what happens after you've shared an idea. Maybe you've given a presentation appeared on a podcast or met someone at an event. Eventually, people are going to want to learn more about your work. That's why having a strong online presence matters. Squarespace makes it easy to create a professional website that showcases who you are and what you offer. Whether you're offering consulting, coaching, speaking, courses, or other services,

Squarespace gives you the tools to present those offerings and manage everything in one place. I also appreciate the built-in analytics. Those insights can help you make smarter decisions about where to focus your time and energy. A great website helps turn interest into opportunity. Head to Squarespace.com slash TFTS for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, use code TFTS to save 10% off your first purchase of a website. or domain. And now back to the conversation. This whole conversation has been fantastic, David. As you will know, I end with three questions.

One, I make up just for you and two that I've been asking everybody for a long time. Are you up for that? Let's do it. Another personal question, you and I talked on our way over to this conversation. You and I are both martial artists. Tenacity is part of that as well. What draws you to the martial arts? And are there any lessons that you've learned? I've learned a lot of lessons for life in the dojo. I'm curious what draws you and what lessons. Part of what draws me in, I like it that for the hour and hour and a half I'm there, you can't think of anything else because otherwise you are going to get choked out. I also, it makes me so much more aware of things I wasn't aware of,

the angle of my wrist, the how I'm shifting my bought my weight. And there's an appreciation of craft and skill that was invisible to me before. I didn't even know. I never even thaw of those things before. So there's appreciation there. There is a humility because you get your butt kicked all the time. There is nothing like the immediate feedback you get in a physical activity. There's no if-ends and butts, you get the feedback, both good and bad. And I totally resonate when you say you become aware of things that you didn't even know that you knew. And I totally appreciate that presence that it requires. And these are skills that

anybody can find in any physical activity. It doesn't have to be grappling with somebody or throwing a kick or a punch. It could be walking in nature. But I really like that you see that. Question number two, who's a communicator that you admire and why? There are a lot. I'm going to pick one that isn't as expected. Vintage Jesse Jackson. There's a speech he gave in 1984 when he was running to be the Democratic nominee for president. And he gave the speech in, he was a speech in, he was running to be the Democratic nominee. in a church in Philadelphia. The speech is remarkable. Amazing example.

It's clearly an amazing communicator. Final question, David. What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe? I think you've got to figure out, one is what does that person actually want to need right now? This is another part of yours. Then the ability to change and adapt that on the fly

when you see, they've done it, and then keeping like the eyes on the prize. What I mean by this is you might be in negotiation where somebody just needs to vent. And when they vent, they're going to say things that you probably do not agree with. But if your eyes on the prize and the prize is to close a deal,

you don't need to argue about each of those things. You just let the person talk. You say you heard them and you try to figure out how to move things along. But it's very easy to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I didn't agree to parts two, eight, and 12 that you just said. But doing that isn't going to actually solve anything. So it's about audience, make sure you understand what they need.

It's about agility to adjust to what happens. And then that focus on what your ultimate goal is, regardless of some of the hiccups and backwards steps that happen a lot of the way. David, this has been a fantastic conversation. Sharing your motivations, your tenacity are great insights for all of us and a role model for what we can achieve. And thank you for putting out educational content that we can. all benefit from and grow with.

Oh, God, of course. And thanks for being a part of it. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. To learn more about communication in a variety of contexts, please check out our many back catalog episodes. This episode was produced by Catherine Reed, Alex McCarthy, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abraham's. Our music is from Floyd Wonder,

with special thanks to Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram. And check out FasterSmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter. Please consider joining our Think Fast, Talk Smart learning community at FasterSmartr.io slash learning. You'll find video lessons, learning quests, discussion boards, Matt's AI coach, and a book club opportunity. Again, that's Faster Smarter.io slash learning to become part of our Think Fast TalkSmart Learning community.

Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives. It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of Think Fast Talk Smart.