This American Life - 638: Rom-Com

Episode Date: May 4, 2025

The one thing you know for sure when you're watching a romantic comedy is that it's going to turn out okay in the end. When you're living one? Not so much.  Visit thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners to sign up for our premium subscription.Prologue: Romantic comedies usually don’t get much respect.  Producer Neil Drumming explains what’s so great about them. (5 minutes)Act One: Actor Daniel Radcliffe reads a short piece of fiction, “The Present,” from Simon Rich’s book of short stories, “The Last Girlfriend on Earth.” (10 minutes)Act Two: Elna Baker interviews comedian Michelle Buteau about one of her first big romantic challenges. (14 minutes)Act Three: David Kestenbaum retraces the steps of Steve Snyder, a man who found himself running for love. (9 minutes)Act Four: Comedian Jillian Welsh tells Diane Wu about one of the most romantic—and stressful—nights of her life, a night that paralleled the plot of a rom-com in several ways. (16 minutes)Transcripts are available at thisamericanlife.orgThis American Life privacy policy.Learn more about sponsor message choices.

In a bonus episode just for our This American Life partners... Ladies and gentlemen, Ira Glass! We found a recording of Ira's first and only stand-up comedy set. Did we travel back in time? And honestly, it's great. They do not advertise hiking properly. To hear the whole thing and all the other bonus episodes we've been releasing every two weeks, and more than anything, help us continue to make the show, subscribe at thisamericanlife.org

slash life partners. That link is also in the show notes. Thank you all so much for having me here. A quick warning, there are curse words that are un-beeped in today's episode of the show. If you prefer a beeped version, you can find that at our website, thisamericanlife.org. It's This American Life from WBZ Chicago. I'm Ira Glass. And here at our radio show, we were talking about romantic comedies and how they don't

get a lot of respect. I think it's maybe because the bad ones. Every part of them just feels too obvious, you know? A couple meets, but they hate each other at first. I think it's maybe because the bad ones. Every part of them just feels too obvious, you know? A couple meets, but they hate each other at first. They go through some things that make them, you know, learn some important lesson about themselves. You know, from the very beginning,

they're gonna end up together, and then no surprise, they do. When it's not done well, it's all too obvious and tired, and you can feel the gears working in the thing. One of the producers on our show, Neil, he wholeheartedly really loves romantic comedies, has favorite cities watched over and over dozens of times. He once collaborated with the producer of Sleepless in Seattle and a rom-com script that never got made.

He has all kinds of thoughts about them. He realized this thing about rom-coms and what's so satisfying about the good ones that I really think is true. I used to say that it was just watching just like closeups of two beautiful people being funny and clever and witty to each other. Yeah. Being their sort of best selves

or sometimes worst selves but then eventually their best selves. And that was kind of enough for me. Now why shut me out? You know what happens to people who shut everybody out. They lead quiet quiet peaceful lives? No, they fester. That's Meg Ryan and Kevin Klein with the fake French accent in the movie French Kiss.

Fester. I am festering. Inside, fester and rot. I've seen it happen. You'll become one of those hunched back lonely old men sitting in the corner of a crowded cafe mumbling to yourself, my ass is twitching. Your people make my ass twitch. If there's a simple thing that resonates for me, it's that in the best of these movies, you get to see two people get along in a way that is bright.

It's just nice to see that part of people. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's also, I think if you're projecting it all, it's the idea that you can like be that connected to someone or receive someone that well. When you see it, you're like, oh yeah, that would be nice. That's why I like the ones where people

spend a lot of time together. That's key for Neo. In Neo's personal ranking of these films, which has the 2009 film, The Uglyly Truth at the very, very bottom, the three rom-coms that sit at the very top, like the tousled hair above Hugh Grant's head, are French Kiss, Two Weeks Notice, which is a real estate rom-com, and his very favorite, lots of people's favorite, When Harry Met Sally. And they're all at the top of the list for this very reason,

because of how much time the couple spends together talking. Take when Harry Met Sally. The thing that I like about it is that at least you get a vision of what their relationship actually is, because they spend 12 years together before they finally get together. So you get to see real fights, you get to see their relationship grow, you get to see their personalities clash. And so they actually have a chance to fall in love by talking to each other, as opposed to in romantic comedies now,

or like where there's a montage and music playing, and then you're just supposed to come out of that thinking they're in love. They actually spend time with each other. Like, there's a sequence of scenes in When Hiram and Sally, where they're just getting along, and they're just talking on the phone. -♪ RINGING PHONE BELLS RINGINGan- Hello? and they're just talking on the phone. Phone ringing. Hello. You sleeping? No, I was watching Casablanca.

Channel, please. Eleven. Thank you. Got it. Now you're telling me you would be happy with Victor Laszlo than with Humphrey Bogart? When did I say that? When we drove to New York. I never said that. I would never have said that.

All right, fine. Have it your way. Have you been sleeping? Why? Because I haven't been sleeping. I think if I was dating someone who hated when Harry met Sally, I don't know that I could date them. Like, I don't know that I could. Like, if you're not interested in, like,

the relationship between Harry and Sally, I don't really understand what kind of person you are. I don't know. Wow. It's not to say that you're a bad person, it just means I don't think I understand you. Okay. Romantic comedies are contrived.

The people are way more clever and way better in real life. The stories are full of things and way better looking in real life. The stories are full of things that would be ridiculous and sometimes maybe even on the stalkery side, if they haven't any of us. But this totally artificial form, when it works, reminds you of what it feels like to be in love. And of somebody who wants to listen to what you say, and who says things that you want to listen to.

And so, today, we're devoting our whole show to rom-coms. Today's episode, by the way, is a rerun. We thought we would bring it back today because frankly, we all wanted a break from the news and the current events. If it was a good time for an hour of fun. In each of our acts today, we found a story that reminds us

of some aspect of a movie rom-com. And yes, we did go on a search for stories of people running, sprinting down the street in real life in an urgent rush to tell someone that they love them. Stay with us. This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things and other currencies. With WISE, you can send, spend, or receive money across borders, all at a fair exchange rate. No markups or hidden fees.

Join millions of customers and visit WISE.com. Bye. Hey, it's Sarah Gonzalez. The economy has been in the news a lot lately. It's kind of always in the news and Planet Money is always here to explain it. Each episode we tell a sometimes quirky, sometimes surprising, always interesting story that helps you better understand the economy. So when you hear something about cryptocurrency or where exactly your taxes go, yes, I will listen to the Planet Money podcast from NPR. It's this American life. Act one, meet cute.

So the first thing a romcom needs is for the couple to meet in an appealing way. They meet cute. The meet cute is supposed to make you feel like, no matter what happens, these two people should be together. There are so many ways to do this. In The Wedding Planner, Matthew McConaughey saves

Jennifer Lopez from a runaway dumpster that is rolling down the street. In Pretty Woman, Richard Gere gets lost in a very fancy car and Julia Roberts gives him directions. Bringing a baby, Katherine Hepburn picks up Cary Grant's golf ball on a golf course. Reality Bites, Winona Ryder throws her cigarette into Ben Stiller's car.

And Neil's favorite, When Harry Met Sally. The thing about When Harry Met Sally is it has an extended meet queue, which I like. They take a road trip from Chicago to New York. And so they're kind of meeting for several hours. And from the very beginning, it's contentious because Harry has all these theories about relationships that she finds like crazy and off-putting. What I'm saying is, and this has not come on in any way, shape or form, is that men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.

That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved. No you don't. Yes I do. Yes I do. No you don't. Yes I do. I only think you do. You're saying I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge? No, what I'm saying is they all want to have sex with you. They do not. Do too.

They do not. Do too. I think it sets up the chemistry. It sets up that there is something about them that you want to root for. Me Cutes do happen in real life but for this first story in today's show, we have a piece of fiction, a story where the meekute plays an important role in the story as a turning point for one of the characters. The story is by Simon Rich.

The actor Daniel Radcliffe read it for us. I don't understand, Professor Zander Kaplan said while his girlfriend sobbed into a pillow. I thought you liked tulips. I do, she said. It's just, you get them for me every year. It's starting to get a little impersonal. I mean, this time you didn't even include a card. Zander winced. Her reasoning was sound.

I apologize, he said. I obviously made an error in judgment. He tried to take her hand, but she pulled it out of reach. Do you remember what I did for your birthday? She said, I got you that new Bunsen burner you wanted. I knit you a pair of wool socks so your feet wouldn't get cold in the lab. You never make that kind of effort for me. All you do is think about yourself.

That's incorrect," Zander said. What about Emeladium? It took me nine months to synthesize that element, and I named it after you. You were going to synthesize that element anyway, Emily said. You needed it for your secret project, that silver orb thing in your lab. Emeladium wasn't about me, it was about you. I mean, for God's sake, you won't even tell me what it does." Zander sighed. Is there anything I can do to make it up to you? Emily blinked back some tears. I don't know. I mean, it's not like you can just go back in time and get me a different present. Zander's expression brightened.

Wait there, he said, I'll be right back. Xander hurried down the hall, crept into his laboratory and locked the door behind him. His time machine was right where he had left it. He climbed inside the silver orb and flicked on the power switch. His plan was simple. Travel back in time to this morning, find a new gift for Emily and bring it to the present. But there were a couple of risks. There was a chance, for example, that using the machine would cause the universe to explode. He'd never tested the thing out before. There was also no guarantee that he would be able to find a good present. He only had enough emiladium to fuel five minutes of time travel. That didn't give him a lot of

wiggle room. Wherever he went he would have to shop efficiently. Zander was usually a pretty good problem solver. He had, for example, invented a time machine. But quantum physics and nuclear hydraulics were trivial compared to the rigours of gift shopping. He massaged his temples, trying to remember if Emily had dropped any hints lately. He vaguely recalled her staring at a vase in Crate and Barrel, but that place was full of vases. There was no way he'd be able to pick out the right one. He was trying to remember the name of her favourite perfume when a thought entered his head. Maybe he was thinking too small. His machine could transport him to any time and place in human history.

Why go back a few hours when he could go back a few centuries? He knew Emily loved Shakespeare. She'd written her senior thesis on one of his tragedies. Why not travel back to the Globe Theatre and swipe her an original script? It wouldn't be too difficult, he reasoned. All he'd have to do was dash backstage and grab one. It would be the most impressive gift she'd ever received in her life. But which tragedy had Emily written her thesis about? He knew it was one of the King ones, Richard the something or Charles the something. But there were a bunch of those. What if he got it wrong? It was too risky. There was always jewelry. He knew the general construction dates for King Tut's tomb. He could park in front of the pyramid, run inside, and snatch a jade stone.

He entered the coordinates and was about to push the lever when he started to second-guess himself again. Buying women jewelry was always chancy. Emily had very specific tastes, and what if she didn't like Jade? It wasn't like he'd be able to go back and return it. He thought back to the night they met. He was finishing his PhD at the time, and his lab had closed early because of Easter. He'd stuffed his papers into his briefcase and shuffled through the rain to the 116th Street station. It was 4.05am and the platform was deserted, except for Emily. It had been several days since Zander's last conversation with the human, and when she started to speak to him he felt the stirrings of a panic attack.

But Emily's friendly smile managed somehow to put him at ease. She was awfully cheerful, given her circumstances. Her metro card had expired, she said, and the machines were broken. She'd been stranded for over 20 minutes. Would he be willing to sell her a ride? Sander nodded and watched as she rooted around in her purse for some cash to pay him back. It was a moment or two before it occurred to him that she had given him the chance to be gallant. You don't have to reimburse me, he said. I'll swipe you in for free." She thanked him enthusiastically and then, shockingly, wrapped her arms around his torso.

Xander wasn't used to physical contact, and although the hug was brief, it caused his entire body to tingle from head to toe. It was a startling sensation, like walking through an electrically charged field. He still felt that way whenever she touched him. Zander was an atheist and believed fiercely in random causality. But by the end of their shared subway ride, he was sure he'd experienced a miracle. This wonderful person had shown up out of nowhere and given him a chance at love. And in return, he'd given her three years of misery.

He thought about all of his Saturday nights at the lab, ignoring her calls, making excuses. He thought about the way she cried when he handed her the tulips. How could he make up for three years of romantic ineptitude with a single birthday present? He closed his eyes and concentrated. There had to be a right answer. Cleopatra's crown. Joan of Arc's sword.

A baby dinosaur? What was the greatest thing he could give her? The very best present in the world? It was the hardest problem he'd ever attempted to solve. But then, as always, the solution came to him. Sander parked his time machine by the 116th Street Station and dashed into the subway. It was 3.45am, a little over three years in the past. Emily was standing by the turnstile, swiping and re-swiping her expired Metro card. He took a deep breath and approached her.

Let me guess, he said. Expired Metro card. She chuckled. How do you know? I had a hunch. Come on, I'll swipe you through. Oh, that's okay, she said. I'll just go to the machine upstairs or-

The machines are all broken, he said. You better catch this one, he said. The next one won't come for another 20 minutes. Before she could protest, he took out his Metro card and swiped her through the turnstile. You better catch this one," he said. The next one won't come for another twenty minutes. Before she could protest, he took out his metro card and swiped her through the turnstile. She smiled back at him with confusion. Aren't you coming? She asked as the train pulled into the station.

Zander averted his eyes. He worried that if he looked at her, he would start to cry. I need to take a different train," he said. Well, at least let me pay you for the... that's alright, he said, his voice breaking. It's a present. He was about to turn away when she leaned over the turnstile and hugged him. It was exactly as he remembered it, her long brown hair brushing softly against his neck, his entire body tingling with warmth.

Thanks, she said. He tried to say you're welcome, but the words got caught in his throat. He waved goodbye as she boarded the train. Then he marched out of the station alone. Daniel Radcliffe reading the short story The Present by Simon Rich. Rich's latest book is called Glory Days. Radcliffe also starred in Rich's TV show, Miracle Workers, for four seasons. Back to the obstacle. The main body of most romantic comedies is there's something or a group of things keeping them apart. There's always obstacles that are keeping these two people who are fated to be together

apart. The obstacles can be big or little. Tom Hanks isn't over his dead ex-wife and sleepless in Seattle. In Notting Hill, a guy falls in love with somebody who's too famous for him. In Bridget Jones, she's going after the wrong guy, which of course is prior to Prejudice and I don't know, so many films, it's one of the most common. When Harry met Sally, they each are involved with other people for a lot of the film.

But the real obstacle is that they're friends. Which in this film has a special meaning because, if you remember, when Harry met Sally on that car ride originally, he told her that he didn't think that men and women could ever just be friends. So this is new for him. Billy Crystal has a scene in the film with a sidekick character, a best friend played by Bruno Kirby, where they talk about this. I don't understand this relationship.

What do you mean? You enjoy being with her? Yeah. You find her attractive? Yeah. And you're not sleeping with her? No. You're afraid to let yourself be happy.

Why can't you give me credit for this? This is a big thing for me. I never had a relationship with a woman that didn't involve sex. I feel like I'm growing. We went out looking for a real life couple facing some obstacle that kept them from being together, and that's not actually very hard to find. But one of our producers, Elna Baker,

heard about a couple where the obstacle that confronted them once their relationship got going was pretty unusual. It was a couple one of her friends was in years ago. Quick warning to everybody who's listening to this podcast version of our show. There are some words that we have un-beeped in this and other stories in the program.

If you don't want to hear that, maybe you're listening with kids, you can get a beeped version at our website, thisamericanlife.org. Anyway, here's Anna. My friend Michelle Buteau is one of the most audacious, ballsy people I know, and she brings this attitude into all aspects of her life, including relationships. This is a story about her and her boyfriend. It starts in the 90s, when she was 18, going to college, living in Miami. And as college students do, she adopted a new cool persona for herself,

one that wore dark lipstick, cargo pants, and danced in reggae clubs every weekend. I loved dancing, like I wanted to be a fly girl on a living color. I definitely would have been like Snoop Dogg's like video hoe if I had the chance. And yeah, I was out one night at a teeny bopper club and that's where I saw him. I remember the smoke machine was working. It felt like we were at a bar mitzvah somewhere in Jersey.

And literally when the smoke cleared, machine was working, it felt like we were at a bar mitzvah somewhere in Jersey. And literally when the smoke cleared, I'm like, who is that tall boy with the khakis on and the big old chain and the curly hair? How do I talk to him? And I kind of just sort of like inched my way over to him on the dance floor. I remember like doing this move where we both sort of roll into each other's body and I can get a whiff of his Jacquard Noir and I was like,

mmm, yes, yes, yes. And my heart was beating so fast I could hear it and I'm like, oh my god, this is what love is. I feel like a Puerto Rican Molly Ringwald. Like in any good first encounter, there were magical coincidences. We were walking out to the parking lot and we realized we both had the same car. Mazda, Protege's, both leased by our moms. Was that a moment where you were like, this is fate?

I mean, not only did I go to this club. Oh, definitely. I'm like, what? Like, out of all the cars in the world, out of all the dance clubs, you and me. He was 18 too, but he seemed really grown up. He worked at Best Buy selling DVDs and he was also a drug dealer. And in my mind I was like, oh my God, he's so cool. He's so good at math.

Like he counts so cool. He's so good at math. Like, he counts so quickly. In case you're thinking drug dealer, red flag, he was barely a drug dealer. He dealt weed. Nearly every woman I know has dated a weed dealer. They quickly got serious, and he was Michelle's first big relationship. He was funny, smart, they had good banter, and he was this incredibly accepting person. Made her feel comfortable, confident about her body and about sex, which she'd never really felt before. She imagined a real future with him. The plan was, I mean, looking back on it, it seems so basic, but just to be with each

other and to have fun and to have kids and to go out to dinner after a movie on a Friday night. You know, Olive Garden, Cheesecake Factory just kind of exists and a really cute apartment with beige carpet and white blinds. Yeah, the American dream. Fast forward three years into the relationship. Their lives are totally entwined. Their families are close. They vacation together. It was that point of no return place in a relationship where you're just like, here it is. This is it. But there was this one thing that seemed sort of off. A lack of photographic evidence, no pictures of himself as a kid, specifically no school pictures, no prom picture.

Even his mom didn't have any shots of him. It was just weird. And then one night. I had a dream that he called me up, he told me that he never graduated high school. And when I called him the next day and I was like, I had this crazy dream, he just started crying. I could just hear him gently sobbing and he's like, not only did I not graduate high school, I don't even know how to read. I'm just like, how?

Like I thought I knew you, like what? Like haven't we read something together? Their entire relationship flashed before her eyes. One moment after another. Suddenly, it all made sense. And I was going back, you know, I realized like, oh my God, this is why we go to the same restaurant.

We would go to the same restaurant and he'd order the same thing because he couldn't read the menu. Oh wow. And he liked to go to restaurants that had pictures of the food. You know, I would write him poems and stuff and he's like, read them to me. You know, it's better when I hear it from you. Never want to go through his mail.

I had to help him. When you stop and think about it, the fact that he'd been able to navigate the world convincingly and keep this from Michelle for over three years, it was an incredible feat. He must have been covering this up constantly. When he told me why he didn't know how to read, it just made my heart break even more. I mean his dad died when he was young and so his mom had to work three jobs and he was depressed and just dropped out of the fifth grade

and nobody ever noticed. His mom didn't wanna deal with it. And you know, I'm not judging because it must've been so hard for her. The only thing that kept going through my mind, I remember was, I want to save you, I want to help you, I want to make this better. We're going to get back on track to what we had planned.

She was not going to allow this obstacle to push them apart. She jumped into action. This was before you could Google everything. So Michelle went to the library and did research on adult literacy. She broke it down into manageable steps and wrote out a timeline for him. My game plan for him was I had a list of places he could go to to go to night school, a therapist he could talk to, easy adult reading books, tips and tricks. It was like a whole sort of like care package of like how to just take it on.

And he was like really overwhelmed by it. And I was like, okay, this is a really big deal. I get it. Michelle's dyslexic and her boyfriend didn't have a learning disability, but still she could empathize with how hard it can be to read. And at first Michelle's boyfriend was totally on board with the plan.

But after a year of Michelle offering him solutions, he still hadn't taken any action. It just seemed like he didn't want to. He got around the world just fine without reading. She started realizing, oh wait, his illiteracy was a way bigger problem for her than it was for him. And it really started pushing them apart. I stopped being his girlfriend and sort of became his coach or his mom.

And it wasn't fun for either one of us. I tried every tactic. I was patient. I was nice. I was stern. And then I kind of backed off. I'm like, whatever he needs to do on his own time. It started to bleed its way

into every moment they shared together. Like she could never fully relax anymore. Even when they were happy, she'd snap herself out of it and think, wait, no, no, we're forgetting that there's this huge looming problem, and we've got to fix it before everything can be okay. She started to resent him.

We don't even laugh anymore. We're not even holding hands like we used to. We're not even having sex like we used to. Simply because you're not even going to this class. Like if he just went to a class, I would just be so happy. Did you feel like if you love me, you will learn to read? Absolutely. I mean, is that weird?

But I totally felt like that. I was like, who's gonna read books to our kids at night? Like, you gotta get it together. ["The Last Supper"] This was like the vein of my existence. I was like, and I couldn't really talk to anyone about it because how embarrassing. Because I didn't want to, I didn't want my friends to think less of him, you know, and I wanted him to still feel like a man. So I just kind of like carried this by myself.

And at some point I just looked at myself and I was like, you gots to go. But even then I was just like, how do I leave somebody when they're down? Well, in a sense, it actually like, it made the relationship last longer because everything became about him reading. And so if you could just crack that or fix that, then maybe it would work

out. Oh my god, what are you? Dr. Phil with tits? Yeah, I mean, I feel like I always live like that. If I could just lose those 20 pounds, if I could just have a clean house all the time, I could do everything I really wanna do on my list. And so yeah, there was that. You know, if we could just get past this, then we'll, you know, live the life we're supposed to live.

That's the promise of an obstacle. You feel like all you have to do is conquer it and you get your happy ending. How would it play out in a rom-com? The obstacle being his illiteracy? Yeah. Oh okay. Boom. He learns how to read. He writes like a New York bestseller like situation, it becomes a movie, Channing Tatum plays him, Lisa Bonet plays me, and we live happily ever after with like a bunch of mixed children in a huge apartment with beige carpet by Cheesecake Factory. Amazing. See I was imagining that he would like greet you at the airport with like a sign That he had handwritten himself that was like Michelle. I can read now. Oh my god, and you'd see it You start crying and you're like, oh and he's worked so hard behind your back secretly going to night school the whole time

I know Instead you just like fucked a stripper I know. Instead he just like fucked a stripper. Okay, she wasn't a stripper, but she was sleeping with Michelle's boyfriend. Michelle suspects that the entire time she was struggling to get him to read, he was cheating on her. She was so focused on the obstacles

she thought they were facing, she totally missed it. ["The Last Supper"] Of course, as rom-coms go, the thing missing from this story is calm. At least until Michelle started doing stand-up and figured out how to tell it on stage. When did you decide, like, this story's funny, I'm gonna put it in my act? Like, because it in my act like

because it's actually like really sad but yeah you know most of my the first joke I ever wrote was about him. Will you tell it to me? Sure it's lines at Disney World remind me of my ex-boyfriend three hours away waiting for a two-minute ride. Ayo. But the story, I didn't feel comfortable doing it on stage till 13 years later. And I stayed with him, but then it got like real ratchet. Like we would get into arguments and I'd say shit like, but you said you learned how to read from me. Like, that's not how you want your first relationship to be.

In her act, she even talks about how great it feels for me. Like, that's not how you want your first relationship to be." In her act, she even talks about how great it feels to tell the story on stage. But it just felt so good. It was so cathartic. I was like, yes, I gotta get this out. And I just started doing jokes about him and blogging about him. And my friends are like, you gotta be careful because you're using his first and last name. And I was like, bitch, I don't give a fuck, because that motherfucker can't read. All right, good night everybody, I gotta go.

Elna Baker was a long time producer on our show. Michelle Bouteau is the author of Survivor the Thickest. Her second season is streaming on Netflix. She's going on tour this fall. You can find out more at michellebouteau.org. Coming up, a real life rom-com that involves Shakespeare, real kisses that are like stage kisses and the police. That's in a minute from Chicago Bubble Radio

when our program continues. This is American Life, Myra Glass. Today's program, rom-com. Stories mostly taken from real life that mimic things that we have seen in romantic comedies. We've arrived at act three of our show, act three, The Run. This of course, in a romantic comedy, is the scene where somebody has to cross town

at some point literally sprinting to chase down the person they love and stop them from either marrying somebody else or winning them back somehow. It doesn't always end up at the airport, but lots of these do. And honestly, I have to say I was surprised we found this ever happened in real life. But here is one story like that. Marisa Cohen's dad used to like to tell this story. It was about his own marriage. He died a couple years ago. His name is Ron. The story goes like this. When he was getting together with Marisa's mom, Marisa's mom, Debbie, drove across the country

to move in with Ron in Florida. And before she left, she had the post office forward her mail to his house in Florida. And he saw a letter arrive from her ex-fiance. I think it's crazy, but my dad decided that he saw that letter and he had to read it. This is Marissa. So he just opened the letter, read the whole thing, and as my dad put it, my mom's ex-fiance was declaring his undying love for her,

and was begging her not to go, and was saying he wants to get back together with her and my dad Freaked out he decided this is it. It's now or never He decides he's gonna meet her in Dallas, which is where she is in her car trip And also is where the ex-fiance lives He hurries to the airport the way he told it was he was going through the airport, you know, running through the Florida airport,

gets a ring out of a little, like, gumball machine, puts, like, you know, however much that costs, like a quarter or whatever, in the gumball machine, pulls out a Mickey Mouse ring, because it's Florida, naturally, gets on the plane, flies and meets my mom in Dallas, and right there in the airport, gets down on her knee the second he sees her. I had no plans of seeing the ex-fiance at all,

whatsoever. As Marissa's mom, Debbie, she had no idea the ex-fiance had written a letter or that Ron had opened it. All she knew was that he had offered to drive the rest of the way across the country with her and was going to meet her in the Dallas airport. He gets off the plane and I greet him and practically the very next thing out of his mouth is will you marry me? And he opens up his hand and in his hand

he's got this little Mickey Mouse string in his hand and I am not proud of my reaction at all. Do you wanna hear it? Yeah. My reaction was, are you crazy? This is the craziest thing I've ever heard of. I barely know you. That was my reaction.

I have to say, that is my favorite part of the story. I could have been a little more gentle. Now, what I love about it is that in the movies, when somebody does a gesture like that, like often it's way crazier than what he did. Yes. And kind of stalkerish. But the movie just acts like,

oh, that was a totally lovely thing for a person to do because true love will out. And I like that you had the normal human reaction that a normal person would have would be like, are you nuts? Right, right, right, right. Yeah, well, I'm too pragmatic to fall for that one, I guess. ["Win Love"]

Julia eventually did win out, though, at their wedding. In addition to a regular ring, she also wore the Mickey Mouse one. ["Win Love"] There was another story we heard about somebody running to win love, which actually kind of paralleled the run that happens at the end of Neil's favorite rom-com, when Harry met Sally. When Harry met Sally, the way it goes is that it's New Year's Eve, Harry's wandering around

the streets of New York and he realizes that he loves Sally, has to tell her now, breaks into a run to go tell her. It's very New York-centric in this one because he's like tries to catch cab and of course he can't, so then he's just like he's just gonna run the entire distance. David Kastenbaum has our real life version of this story about a guy named Steve Snyder. The thought that someone actually made one of these runs in real life seemed so unlikely to me that I wanted to see where it had happened, retrace the steps of it. So I met Steve where the run began, at this burger place on Ludlow Street in New York City.

Steve is the kind of guy who is not very good at hiding his feelings. Like if this were a movie, you could title it Say Everything. The setup to the run is this. He'd met this woman, Emily, at a birthday party. He was totally smitten. What I remember is the party kind of turned into

sort of a tunnel vision moment. All I really did was talk to her. It didn't go great. He kept asking her, you want to go to a movie? Maybe we could hang out sometime. If there's a trajectory of my life, it's going from clingy to a little less clingy. Steve emailed her after the party. Nothing came of it. A year passes, and just like in When Harry Met Sally, they meet a second time.

In Steve and Emily's case, it's at the very same birthday party, same apartment. And they become friends. It was the kind of friendship where, really, it could go either way. She seemed kind of interested in something more, but maybe not enough. And the longer they were friends, it was like, well, maybe that's what they were. Steve had a job as a film critic. So they would go to movies, lots of movies, where they would not hold hands and not kiss. There is a pathetic moment. So Lincoln Center Station, we're waiting for the train.

It's like some crazy 20 minute wait, where the words actually come out of my mouth, hey, if you ever want a film critic as a boyfriend, you just let me know. I think we were talking about, it fit into the context of the conversation somehow, but I can't think of anything more pathetic. What was her reaction?

She just kind of laughed and was like, yeah, okay, okay. The run happened on a night where they were not going to hang out. Steve thinks he was working on a review of some mutant Ninja Turtle movie. And after work, he goes out with some friends to a music place. Music's so loud and it's kind of fun. You know, it's a great night and we're dancing. I actually started dancing for once. We leave music place. Music's so loud and it's kind of fun. You know, it's a great night and we're dancing. I actually started dancing for once.

We leave the place, we're gonna go get some greasy food because we're hungry and we haven't eaten and I have my bag and everything. So we walk into the burger joint. The place we are sitting in right now, greasy spoon, tiled white walls and painted brick. It's like a piece of a subway station that's somehow above ground.

You know, there's what, five tables here, it's's tiny and so I remember just kind of throwing my bag down and And then I pull out my phone just to check and it's one of those weird nights, right? Like I just haven't checked my phone almost any night any night 99% of nights, you know your phones right next to you if it's buzzing you hear it if it rings you hear it I don't know if I had bad reception in the place because it's kind of an older building, but I look down That I swear to God. I have like 22 text messages. And I'm like, what? And they're all from Emily.

And so I run out of the burger place to the street. Wait, let's go outside. Okay. Okay. All right. So you rush out here. I rush out here and there's not exactly a lot of room. I mean there's there's not room at all. This is a crowded like this is where you hang out till 4 a.m. so I rush out and I I start reading through the messages and it starts very kind of innocently very like hey what are you up to tonight? Oh are

you oh maybe you're out? I was wondering if maybe you wanted to like get a drink or something and then and then it starts escalating like wait are you are you not texting me or why aren't you texting me back? Usually he was pretty quick at getting back to her. Because I was totally into her. And then it started being like, it started getting a little more paranoid. And then I think she started thinking I was on a date

or something. In just two hours, it looked like she'd gone through all these phases. Everything laid out in all these texts, ending with one that Steve was not expecting. The last text message said, maybe we need to talk about this whole not dating thing. I thought like this is it. Like whatever is about to happen, like this is the moment. And so I immediately called her.

I immediately just hit dial. I didn't quite know what I was gonna say. And I think she picked up the phone, said hello, and I just kind of started going into it. Like, I don't know what to say here. Like, yes, I wanna date you. And what have we been doing? You know, I'm like screaming in the street.

The cars aren't moving. People stopped walking by me. They just stopped to see like what's going on here because I'm screaming like, I love you. I don't know how to be clear. Like, I love you. And so I'm screaming this and this crowd is starting to cheer me on.

Someone does yell like, say you love him. Like say you love him. Yelling to her through the phone and. I love New York. And all I remember her saying, and it might've been all that she did say was, you know, like you need to stop yelling. If you want to talk about this,

you might as well just come here. And as far as I'm concerned, this is the moment, like it's on, like this is happening. And I just start running down the street looking for calves. Let's run, let's run. Okay. So I start running. We are now jogging up Ludlow Street.

It's actually kind of exciting. The crowd, the crowd's looking at me, wondering what the hell I'm doing. And literally I'm like banging on every cab because it's that time of night where some, where some are just saying they're off duty. So I think I hit a couple and I'm sort of like, can you take me just up to the East Village?

Not that far. But taxi after taxi is like, no, or there's someone in it. So he keeps running. Like, I didn't tell my friends where I was going. I left my laptop, all these screeners that I had taken assignments to review, that the movie studios told me they needed back. I ditched everything.

Can we talk about the running? Yeah. Why does love always involve running? That is interesting. Why did I feel like I had to run? In the movies they run, but usually it's because someone's about to get married or about to get on a plane. It felt very urgent to get there very quick. This had been building up for years. And for a moment she was willing to consider it.

And I was going to get there before she said it was too late or she was too tired. Steve told me he'd been living in the friend universe for so long. And now it was like this little wormhole had opened up. He didn't know for how long, where he might be able to slip into the parallel universe of boyfriend. Steve did eventually get a taxi,

made it to her apartment, and he stayed over. And they did become boyfriend and girlfriend. In the movies, this is often the final scene. The end of the movie is the beginning of the relationship. You don't really get to see how it goes. How he gets too clingy, one of them meets someone else, how it just fades. But that is not this story. We got married, and now we have two kids, and I still can't believe it's all played

out the way it did. I know things don't always work out in the end. But sometimes you just want to hear the ones that do. David Kastembaum is our show's senior editor. Heck four. You had me at hello. David Kastembaum is our show's senior editor. Act four, you had me at hello. So after Harry does his run across New York City on New Year's Eve and reaches Sally, he explains to her that he ran because once you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody,

you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible. And he tells her all the things about her that he notices and loves about her. That's the final thing you need for a rom-com. You need for somebody to declare that they see you in ways that you are usually not seen. Maybe you don't even know yourself. And it does happen in real life sometimes after some obstacles. Diane Wu has a story like that. She fell for him in an acting class.

Jillian was a serious young actor bent over her desk taking notes when Jeffrey got up in front of class to read from a Midsummer Night's Dream. I just remember hearing his voice first and then actually looking up from my notebook and just watching him do the scene. And he was so, so good. And he had this really awesome voice. It's like super low and really resonant. And he was this really awesome voice. It's like super low and really resonant, and he was really hot, too.

By the time he sat back down, she was done. I was immediately more attracted to him than I'd ever felt attracted to anybody before. And I didn't know how to talk to him. I I just, I knew that I wanted to talk to them, but I just didn't know how. It was like a mix between wanting to be right next to somebody and then like run away and hide. Jillian was young, 20. She'd had boyfriends, but nothing too serious.

And they'd always liked her more than she liked them. Until Jeffrey. They were working together at a Shakespeare theater in New York. At the end, they put on a production of The Winter's Tale. On stage, she'd sometimes get so distracted that he was there that she'd forget her lines. Sometimes offstage, she thought

maybe Jeffrey was flirting with her, but she couldn't tell for sure. And anyway, she had a rule, never sleep with a castmate. So for four months, she kept her feelings to herself. Cut to the night of the final cast party. Everyone's at the bar that they always go to, and it's the first night they're no longer coworkers. So on her way over, Jillian makes it her mission

to try and kiss him that night. She talks to him a lot at the party, but keeps chickening out. Finally, she gives up and decides to go home. And so I was standing there and I was getting ready to hail a cab, finishing up the end of a cigarette, and I felt him come up next to me. And yeah, he just... It was kind of like... I remember him just like brushing back hair kind of off of my cheek. And it's that moment, you know, where you know that you're actually gonna kiss.

Like, you just feel it in your two bodies and he just so very lightly pressed his lips up against mine. And then it was like a, well not like an actual like deeper kiss and I know from the outside we made it look good because it very much felt like one of those, like a good stage kiss. After their perfect first kiss, everything falls into place on cue. He invites her back to his apartment.

She flicks her cigarette to the curb. He opens the door to the cab. She glides into the backseat. More kissing ensues. I think that's probably the first time I've ever made out with anybody in the back of a cab. I think I was probably like, this cab driver's here. They make out all the way across Manhattan, over a bridge and up five flights of stairs.

Somehow Jeffrey manages to unlock the door without removing his lips from Jillian's. This impresses her very much. Everything is going so perfectly. So then I use his bathroom because I've been drinking a lot of beer all night and I'm so nervous. I notice that my hands are shaking in the mirror. I'm so nervous and I just look myself in the eye and I actually gave myself a pep talk. Like pointer fingers and dancing in the mirror and being like this is everything you've waited for it's actually happening it's like excitement, nervous, I believe in you. Yeah. Then Jillian encounters the first

obstacle in what will turn out to be a very strange night for her. And my whole heart just sinks. I'm not actually going to be able to have sex with him. I just got my period. I realize that making out with him in the back of the cab and just like my cigarettes and my leather jacket, you know, it makes me seem like I was this really cool city girl, but the reality of who I am is this very nervous person who grew up very conservative, like very, very conservative. Jillian grew up on a farm in rural Canada. This one time when she was young and got her period while wearing white pants, her whole family participated in a weird game of denial. Everyone just pretended like she sat in some jam.

She didn't even like to say the word, period. It was something that was kind of like very hush-hush and not something I was used to discussing openly. Jillian thinks there's no way we can sleep together tonight. So she's disappointed, and she's stressing over how she's even gonna tell him. But she can't hide in the bathroom much longer. He's waiting on the other side of the door. So I left the bathroom and it was like I stepped out into another world, this like romantic world where he had actually taken a scarf

and put it over a lamp so like the lighting was this like orange mood lighting. He didn't have a shirt on and my mind remembers him glistening. He probably wasn't actually glistening, but that's how my mind remembers him. We checked. Her mind remembers right. Jeffrey told me and he said, yes, this was very embarrassing looking back, but while she was in the bathroom, he slatherattered on baby oil to make his muscles pop. Anyway, they start to kiss.

And I remember like at first being really into it and then remembering my situation. So my mouth does that thing where it curls up a little bit and we kind of laugh a bit and he goes in to kiss me again. I do that thing where I pull away again and he was so sweet. He was like, wait, like what's going on? You know, he noticed it. He read it right away He was like, wait, what's going on? He noticed it, he read it right away. I was like, we don't have to do this. I wanna be clear, nothing is expected of you

in this situation. We don't have to have sex. And I was like, I want to. I really, honestly, I want to. And I kept trying to think of how am I gonna phrase this? I think of this thing that my roommate used to say, she calls it her aunt flow. So I look at him and I tell him that my aunt flow

has just landed and she's very much in town. And he gets like a little bit confused. He asks me if my aunt has like just arrived at the airport and if I have to go see her or something. So eventually I just, I fess up and I tell him like, no, I have my period and I'm pretty sure I whispered it. I'm pretty sure I was like, I have my period. And he smiled this like half smile and was like, so.

I was like, so? What do you mean so? And he just, he didn't care. He didn't care. He was older than her, grew up with a bunch of sisters. Jillian is briefly astonished, considers this totally new possibility, not caring. Decides she's into it, and they start kissing again.

And because this is a family show, I will just say that everything that happened next went really well. In fact, it was the first time this particular activity went quite so well for Jillian. I felt like I finally understood what it was about. I remember lying there and listening to his heartbeat. Yeah, just like listening to his heartbeat is such a comforting sound that I can still hear it so distinctly.

And after a while he gets up to go to the bathroom and he kind of like flicks on that little light. She's talking about the lamp by the bed. And I turn off that light and he flicks it on again and then I turn it back off. And we have this like little shared moment laughter. And he leaves and I turn the light on again, and it looks like a crime scene. There is blood everywhere. This is the first time I had seen

so much of my own menstrual fluid. I was afraid of it. I couldn't even fathom what he was gonna think about it. Just when Jillian thinks it can't get worse, she looks up from the bed. And then, I don't know how this happened, but my very own, like, red bloody handprint is on his white wall. Oh my god. I just, like, panicked. Jillian tears the sheets off the bed and throws them aside.

Next, the handprint. He didn't have any water or anything in his room, so I used my own saliva to wipe the bloody handprint off of the wall. Like, out, out, damn spa. Hehehehe. Next, she bundles up the sheets, but she has no idea what to do with them. She starts to put them in the hamper, but then realizes that he would still have to

take them and wash them himself, which she cannot bear to imagine. She peeks under his bed to see if she can stash them there, but then she thinks, no, no, that's crazy, he'll still find them. Jeffrey will be out of the bathroom any minute. She's running out of options. So I stuffed them into my own backpack. What? Were you going to take them?

Oh, yeah, well, I have to get out of there. You're not going to get away with that, though. He's going to notice that his sheets are gone. I know, but I wasn't thinking about that at the time. All I could think of is that I didn't want him to have to wash these sheets. No, but I wasn't thinking about that at the time. All I could think of is that I didn't want him to have to wash these sheets, and I didn't want him to have to clean up my mess, I guess.

To cover her tracks, Jillian throws the comforter over the bed so you can't see the sheets are missing, straightens the pillows, and gets ready to bolt. When Jeffrey comes back from the shower, she makes up a lame excuse about why she can't stay the night, something about having to go to work early the next morning. She could tell how flimsy it sounded as she was saying it. And I just, oh, it breaks my heart but I remember him looking so hurt

and so confused. I wish that I didn't leave, like I wish that I had stayed, but she didn't. Jeffrey offered to help Jillian hail a cab, but she was like, no it's fine, I'll just take the subway. She walked to the station, totally miserable. Like then it really hits me that I have stolen this man's sheets. How do you come back from that? How do you, how are you not the weird girl who like took his bedsheets? Yeah. So then I'm so inside myself and I hear this voice being like, ma'am, excuse

me ma'am, and I look up and in New York they have this like station outside of subway entrances with this like folding. And the NYPD stands behind, and it's a random beg search. No! And here, Jillian does what any sensible leading lady would do when confronted by law enforcement. I pretend I don't hear them, and I try to exit the subway station with a brisk run walk.

Nothing looks more suspicious than trying to avoid a random bag start. I'm short. I'm short. Yeah. Oh. The officer catches up to Jillian, unzips her backpack, and pulls out the sheets,

which are covered in blood. I remember him, and the subway has such distinct lighting. I just remember him holding up these sheets, my menstrual sheets of shame, my menstrual sheets of doom. I realized that they didn't look like menstrual sheets of doom, they looked like murder sheets of doom. He asked me to explain it and I just start crying. I can barely get the words out of just like trying to explain to him like it's

my period on those sheets and I stole the sheets from the guy that I was with and I know that that's wrong look I know that the actual theft of the sheets is wrong and I promised the officer that I would return them but I just needed to wash them first. The police officer looks Jillian up and down, asks for her ID, and points her to go stand in a little box taped on the floor by the wall. She watches him walk over to his partner

and have a very serious-looking conversation. The sheets stay crumpled up on the plastic folding table. He comes back, and he gives me an ultimatum. So we can go down to the precinct, and they can file a report and they've got to keep the sheets just in case it's evidence, you know, and they're going to ask me a bunch of questions and follow up. Or I can take him back to the apartment, the apartment that I just came from, and have my partner corroborate my story.

Oh, God. Look, and I had to think about it. Like, I honestly gave it a really solid, good think. There was a huge part of me that would rather go to the police station than have to go back and show Jeffrey these, not only show him these sheets, but also bring the police there. But, you know, my common sense caught up with me of like, this looks like I've done something very wrong. They make the long walk to Jeffrey's apartment, silently. They get to the doorstep and buzz. Wait for Jeffrey to walk down five flights of stairs.

When he gets there, the police officer does all the talking. Good evening. Do you know this woman? Jeffrey says he does, that they'd just been hanging out. Then the cop reaches into Jillian's backpack and pulls out the sheets. Do you know what these are? Jeffrey says, those are my sheets. The police officer asks, can you identify the substance on these sheets?

And I just remember being fascinated, because without hesitating, and almost like in this stronger voice, he just says menstrual fluid, which is like, I would call my period anything other than what it actually was. So for him to look a police officer right in the eyes and just say very confidently menstrual fluid,

it just sounded so scientific and very grown up. The cops, having fulfilled their narrative purpose and successfully reunited our couple, leave. And then I'm alone with Jeffrey. I'm trying to apologize to him, namely for stealing his sheets, but also just for everything for bringing the police back to his house. Jillian remembers sobbing through all of this. She's mortified. All of a sudden, Jeffrey stops her and says this thing that still hits Jillian in a soft spot. He told me, I just remember him looking at me

and he's like, you're so strange. He's like, wonderfully strange. Everything that you could possibly think of going wrong went wrong and it all still turned out okay. He still liked me, no matter what. This is like my favorite moment in any rom-com. It's a scene in 10 Things I Hate About You when Julia Stiles reads her poem to Heath Ledger in front of the entire class.

It's Jack Nicholson, in As Good As It Gets, telling Helen Hunt how he just can't believe she runs into strangers all day long and they don't know that they just met the greatest woman alive. And of course it's Mark Darcy at the bottom of the stairs telling Bridget Jones, I like you very much, just as you are. To me, the whole point of rom-coms is to set up that line. It's what we all want to hear and say to the people we love most. But real life doesn't guarantee a plot line that pushes us to say it. Diane Wu, she's one of the producers of our show.

Jillian and Jeffrey dated for a few months, and then they broke it off when real life, new jobs, her expired visa from Canada got in the way. She says she's glad it ended before anything bad happened. Keeps the memory sweet, just like a movie. These days, Jillian Walsh, romcom, tralalala. Romcom, romcom, romcom, tralalala, tralalala, tralalala. Well, everyone's beauty stay by Neil Drumming and Diane Wu. The people who put our show together includes Elna Baker, Elise Bergersen, Ben Calhoun,

Dana Chivas, Sean Cole, Whitney Dangerfield, Eliva De Kornfeld, Stephanie Foo, Damien Grave, Kimberly Henderson, Connor Joppewalt, David Kestenbaum, Seth Lind, Alvin Melloth, B.A. Parker, Ben Phelan, Robin Semian, Alyssa Shipp, Christopher Svitalan, Julie Whittaker. Senior producer for today's show, Brian Reed, managing editor, Susan Burton. Help on today's rerun from Michael Kamatay, Catherine May Mondo, Stowe Nelson, and Angela Gervasi. Thanks to the podcast Two Dope Queens for the recording of Michelle Butoh performing on stage. Also thanks to Linda Obes, Glenevere Turner, Jeffrey Barnes, Paul Fitch, Ron Funches, Aisha Harris, the folks at Mikey's Burger, and the Alamo Drafthouse in Yonkers. Neil Drumming, who you heard earlier talking about when Harry

met Sally and who produced this episode is no longer working at our show, and he has released an album where he raps. And the thing that I love about it is that Neil's real-life personality is all right there. It is funny and self-critical and contemplative and definitely has a bit of romantic comedy there. It is called Writing on Airplanes, available on most streaming platforms. Our website, thisamericanlife.org. This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Troy Malletti. You know, he and I were

reminiscing about that taxi ride we had years ago in England with Margaret Thatcher. I think that's probably the first time I've ever made out with anybody in the back of a cab. I'm Eric Glass. Back next week with more stories of this American life. Someone you don't love Someone you don't love Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong Tra la la la la Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong