THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends! - Are EVs Dead? Huge E39 M5 Repair Bills, Falling Skyline GT-R Values, and More! | THISCARPOD! EP25

Episode Date: September 6, 2024

Have a question you want answered on the podcast next week? Ask HERE https://carsandbids.com/community/podcast Get FREE breakfast for life! Go to HelloFresh.com/freecars Welcome to THIS CAR POD! Doug DeMuro & Friends offers weekly expert insight and opinion, on the breaking automotive stories, the car market, and audience Q&A. LISTEN HERE- Spotify - https://spotify.link/RHKZoB8ebIb Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-car-pod-with-doug-demuro-friends/id1737487546 WEBSITE & MERCH! http://www.dougdemuro.com FOLLOW CARS & BIDS! YouTube - @carsandbids Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/carsandbids/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@cars_and_bids Twitter - https://twitter.com/carsandbids FOLLOW ME! Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/dougdemuro Instagram - http://www.instagram.com/dougdemuro Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/ddemuro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to this car pod. I'm Kenan. I'm Philippo. And today we have a lot to talk about starting with the Mercedes-Benz EQS. Ooh, everybody's favorite topic. Everybody hates the Mercedes-E-QS, and it has sold approximately as well as a vehicle would sell if it didn't have wheels at all. Yeah. I love it, by the way.

Yep. Do you also love the EQE, which looks identical? Yeah. I kind of like all the EQ Mercedes. I know it's bizarre, but they all drive really well. They have great tech. They're good cars. People don't like how they look and people like scapegoat electric cars.

I think the EQ Mercedes are good cars. Except, of course, for the EQB, which is a bad car. Yeah. Okay. And Mercedes this week has announced they're going to replace the EQS with an electric S class, which is basically what they're saying is they're going to, the next gen S class is going to have both gas and electric versions, but they're not going to call the electric one, the EQS anymore. And it won't be a standalone model that's a solid different in theory,

which, by the way, is what everybody else has done. Well, sort of. I mean, everybody, did they? I mean, BMW did I, you know, and. Outside of the I-X, the I-7 and the regular seven series look identical, basically, the five series and the I-5 look identical. Yeah, no, that's true. But all of these brands, like the Audi E-Tron, the original Audi-E-Tron,

which was an SUV that looked like the Q5 but wasn't. That was different. And it's now called the Q80Tron, but it isn't related to the Q8 at all, except that it's uglier. So like one wonders. Anyway, the point is,

the point is this was a smart decision. This is obviously what they were going to do. They could not continue to put all their resources into making two full-size electrics that they am. No, I think they're not getting stuck in the some cost fallacy. They're just moving on, which makes sense.

I think what's interesting is. They're going to do an electric S class. They will, as they should. But it won't look. like that. It looks like an S class. Which is what people want. That looked like the future.

That looked like the future. Remember that Mercedes jelly bean concept car that they had? You know what I'm talking about? Supercar Blondie probably reviewed it. And I bet it's got a screen. I bet it is a screen. I just say all of it is a screen. I think what was surprising about Mercedes decision

beyond naming it Mercedes EQEX 588, whatever, which is a mistake, is that everybody else made like one EV. that was standalone and had different naming convention and then they standardized and they didn't fully develop a separate line of electric BMW did all these ETron

cars. For like three cars not for a full lineup that nobody bought. It was a weird decision and the thing that I hated the most about the decision and Kenan will back me up on this is that by calling it Mercedes EQ they removed Benz which as we discussed last week or perhaps it was two weeks ago he is the man he invented the car

that's true but then again all the AMG malls are Mercedes AMG. I know. They take Benz up. But, Kenan, do you know how they make it up to him? I swear to God, this is true. I'm not screwing with you. If you look at the windshield of an AMG, a new AMG car, there's a little signature

proving that it's like real Mercedes Glass. And on most Mercedes-Benz cars, it says Mercedes. But on the AMG cars where they took Benz's name out of it, it's signed Carl Benz. Wow. Is that really true? That's incredible. The next modern AMG car I see. I will go and look at that is wild.

That's hilarious. Carl F. and Benz, the guy who invented the car signed my car. Okay, this topic is interesting, but ultimately is still pretty spectacular. Yeah, and also nothing will change for a while. And it still may be called Mercedes EQ. Who knows? No. No, they're going to call it.

Mercedes is going to go German with it because they want to. They're going to call up the S-600 E, and there will be the S-600. And that's what they've always wanted to do, but someone told them to differentiate more. and whoever it was, whatever German consulting firm they hired, they're mad at him now. They've sent him very far away. Do you a German accent. Make fun of Mercedes people.

We wanted to do it this way. You have made a mistake. And now we are going to correct action and take, we're going to go back to the past with Viva on already. Well done. Thank you very much. Well done. Oh, my God.

I could have plopped you right down at Porsche cars North America. Okay. Philippa, you got this next topic about the new Q5. I sure do. There's going to be a new Q5. A few weeks ago, we talked about the new A5 and S5. This is on the same platform, which is Audi's new platform. And it's notable because the last Q5 came out in, I'm looking at the year.

It's technically 2017, but let's be honest. So long, long run. And it looks great. This looks like a great, small SUV. Every young professional 30-year-old. women in any big city will own one of these in three years. And it looks good. They have not announced any hybrid or plug-in hybrid or electric version, but it'll be

the same engines that are in the A5, S-5, and there'll be an S-Q-5. But it looks great, notable primarily because it's one of their best-selling products. Yeah, it is notable because it's one of the best-selling cars. We will see them literally everywhere. The Q-5 came out in 2009, and it was redesigned 2017, which you're now starting to try to claim was not a redesign. I mean, it was a redesign. I'll give them the second generation for that night and day. When I see an 09 versus 17, it's like I'm looking at the difference between three and a sewing machine. Wow. Canon on the other hand can't tell them apart. No, could not tell you

what the difference is either. Nevertheless, eight years for the like their best selling car is a long product cycle, especially with their best prices have been minimal. It's a long product cycle. It is, although I would submit to you that Volkswagen Audi came up with this strategy somewhere in the late 2000s where they decided to stop doing like big, notable redesigns and just sort of evolve their cars. And they've done it with everything. Porsche does it too now. The Cayenne redesign in 11 was huge.

And after that, it's been just subtle evolutions. They do the same thing with all of their cars. Panama has been relatively subtle. And 9-11 since the beginning. Well, yeah. But Boxers, I mean, Q5, Q7 have been like this now. And that's like, well- The Q-5 had technically a facelift in 2021.

And it was minimal, minimal. This topic is somewhat interesting, but the more interesting topic, which you just touched on in which we didn't make a thing for, but let's discuss it. Volvo walked back, you see this? Volvo walked back their electrification.

So Volvo, Kenon, said that they were going to electrify the whole thing. All the cars would be fully electric. You plug them on in by 2030, which in case you haven't checked your calendar is tomorrow. Kind of, you know? And Volvo, yesterday,

day was like oh so that's Toyota has been probably about the Porsche everybody it's clear that the tide has changed the tide has turned

we're not going to do that remember that electric thing we promised yeah and you can see it so clearly can I can you just go to the last slide here we're gonna skip around

a little bit and then we'll come back to actual performance cars that people care about no this is an interesting topic because I think I think this is a sign says a lot about

the state of the industry at the moment the XC90 was redesigned in 2017 It came out in 2016 after the first one was from 2003 to 2015. We thought it was going to be dead because Vol was coming out with the EX90, which is their electric, full-size family SUV that Doug reviewed a long, long time ago, but just had first drives recently.

They surprised everybody by announcing a refresh to the XC90, which has been around since 2016. I want to talk about how horrible the interior update is. But this is all you need, like this gets to Doug's point perfectly. weren't planning on keeping the X-C-90 around. I don't know. I think they were. It came out in 2016. If you thought it was going to go for another while, you'd redesign it for real.

No, that's not what Volvo does. The XC-60 has been in its same form since what? 2017-2018. Came out later, 2017, 2018. So it's a new year. Yeah, but that's eight model. I mean, that's what Volvo does. That's what Volvo does. They let their cars go and go and go. Remember the 740? They're still selling that in Asia. But my point is, though, I think that they really, did not plan to do a full thing they hadn't teased it till a few months ago no i think you're

wrong because i think they knew they would never be able to get ex 90 production up to where it needs however the point remains they're letting the most popular cars get kind of older because they were going to start really devoting a lot of resources to the new electric cars and guess what now the new electric cars won't be coming and not for a while yeah or just slower like i bet they'll still make but they're still going to be making gas cars. Especially like Volvo, the most cautious, like, conservative in that they don't really take risks. They have decided. Have you seen the C40?

That was a risk. Well, that's, I did that and realized that maybe we don't do that. Are we going to survive the electrification of the car? Are we going to make it and never have to electrify? Me and you, not him. I mean, I'm sticking with my car. I think that will probably, there will be car companies that just specify, like they only do electric. Like Tesla is clearly not going to make like a hybrid.

They're not going to. That just isn't going to happen. It seems like they're going to stick with electric. I think a lot of manufacturers will continue to offer EV versions of cars, but there will probably be hybrids for quite some time. I think, at least for the foreseeable future, I don't think we're going to, I wouldn't say electrification is over. I don't believe that's true. Let me. Volvo's plan was to fully electrify by 2030.

I'll be 42. If that doesn't happen, let's say they push it 10 years. I'm going to slip through this, aren't I? I'm going to be able to never have to go electric. You will have to, you will want to have an electric car. I already want to have an electric car, but why would they make an electric E-class wagon? At some point, if people keep buying wagons in Europe,

there's a chance that they will for the German market. And nowhere else, because nowhere else bought that. But like, the point is, the point is, it has been interesting to watch these brands, push these EV targets, which I think in part were very heavily relying on government subsidies to exist in the first place. You're also seeing a weird global divergence because China is almost completely electric and the U.S. is clearly not going to be in Europe. I mean, Volvo is not doing this just for the U.S. Europe doesn't have the infrastructure either and doesn't seem to have demand as well. So it's like, that's going to be an odd future too, where you have some markets that are fully electric and some markets that aren't. and it'll be very curious to see how this all shakes down,

but it is very telling that a lot of these car companies are saying no. And by the way, we're going to talk in a second about this new Aston Martin. Here's another brand. Remember Aston Martin came out a couple weeks ago and was like, we were thinking about going electric and nobody wants to. RIMAC said nobody wants electric supercars. Electric is desired by a portion of the population, but it doesn't seem to be the portion that everybody was thinking it was going to be five years ago.

I think that what I agree that a lot of me, a lot of the promises were driven by strong government incentives that some of which have been walked back in the US and other places. I think that just there was some hope that infrastructure would be better than it is and some misunderstanding of what it would take

to have great EV infrastructure. That's the ways where China has invested very, very heavily. So are we getting screwed by China right now? I'm not going there. But I think that the reason I'm making, are we allowing China, is us, both the U.S. government or Western Europe allowing China leapfrog us right now because we're

overrelying on these gasoline engines, the government heavily subsidized these cars in part because they saw the writing on the wall that China was going to get ahead in technology. Is that going to be happening? I mean, that's an interesting component to all of this. Yeah, I mean, the U.S. has pretty heavy tariffs on Chinese-made EVs. Canada, a few weeks ago, announced that it would be 100% tariff on Chinese-made EVs. They're worried. They're being protectionists. that they're being quite protection, which generally is a sign that there's some lack of real competition there, and there's some fear about that.

There's certainly an EV demand problem, that's why manufacturers are backing away from it. There just isn't a demand there. But I think that that demand is driven by their not being the infrastructure for most people to have an electric car. But as that continues to change, which it is constantly changing, more and more manufacturers are adopting Tesla standard.

The new Ionic 5, the 2025 refresh, which we'll talk about a minute, is now come standard with the plug, the plugs to go into Tesla superchargers. As more and more of these networks grow, that changes the calculation. And as battery tech improves, that also changes the calculation.

It may. The problem is, the problem is, it hasn't changed that much or that fast. I think it's way slower than we all thought it would be, but it's changing, right? Like, auto spec,

which is like an EV publication, did a 70 mile an hour test of a Lucid Air GT, which is their new long-range model. And at 70 miles an hour from California to Colorado, it did 523 miles. That's the first time

they've tested a car that's crossed 500 miles. Like the moment you get there and it's easy to charge, that changes everything, which is not there yet. You know, I drive across the country all the time, and you know how many EVs I saw on the drive?

Are we excluding the portion of the drive from San Diego to El Cajon and then from D.C. to Nantucket? No, the answer is, several Nissan Leafs in the middle of the country. Just kidding. Could you imagine trying to cross country in a Nissan leap? And you know,

they use the old Chathamo, like there's nowhere to plug them in. You'd have to be plugging them into household. You'd be knocking on people's doors in rural area, Oklahoma. You're hanging out there for 20 hours. To be fair, the Midwest is the right place to do that. People will let you into their home. Yep.

Oh, geez. Well, you know, yeah, come on in. You know, can I get you something to eat, something to drink? And by the time you try to leave the goodby alone will have the car. Yeah, you got to do that. Well, maybe it's a future i think that we'll there'll always be some market for a long time there'll be some market for plug-in hybrid or evis assisted or gas cars trucks for example we're not there yet isn't what we want

you and me and to a lesser extent canon plug-in hybrids i would if yes but i think that like i could do an evi today uh i could do a lucid air gt but nothing else because i need i think about 500 miles range for our regular travels. I would do it. And I would love to have a plug-in hybrid. So get one. I don't spend money. You got to accept that I don't spend money.

Move on to the next thing. What do we get? Wait, I want to talk about, before we move on from the XC90, I want to talk about their refresh. The exterior looks great. The grill, I think, looks awesome. Yeah, mild refresh.

But they did, I think, the cardinal sin of manufacturers from 10 years ago that for some reason Volvo recreated, which is they updated their center console, the center stack, a tiny bit. But the biggest change that they made the screen bigger.

Yeah. But it looks horrible. Can I quote our former president, Donald Trump? No? Yes? Yes, sure. Wrong. A lot of people came in here and they said,

there's not a lot of screen, not enough screen. I said, why not more screen? We can add more screen and they did. I'm impressed. Belipo, you're annoyed because it's now popped out of the dash. It just looks like Emily, who has an XC90, Kenan's Emily, that is, went to AutoZone and purchased a tablet and just mounted it there. This is the big complaint that like car enthusiasts who love brown diesel station wagons have.

Do you know what regular people think? I got a brown non-diesel station wagon right there. Do you know what regular people think when they see more screen? They're like, damn, more sweet. I love it. You make the car. They don't care that it sticks out from the dashboard. Make it look better.

They don't. I don't care. I'm just a point involved with. They designed this beautiful interior and then in the desire to make it bigger. If you look at other press images, just the side of the tablet is fully exposed. You are missing the point. You are analyzing this from the perspective of Felipe. Not the perspective of the type of person buying an XC90.

And by buying, I mean leasing. My neighbor down the street does not give a canon that the screen is popped out. She just cares that the screen is physically larger and. therefore better. Just have the, this is equivalent to like a, I'm very heavily involved with our product team here at Carson Bids.

And I've been involved in a lot of product teams. This is equivalent to, you're putting out a feature that people will like, but that just looks horrid. And you've got to have some standards for yourself. It doesn't even look bad. It's also physically closer to you, which helps.

It looks so bad though. Just, just, just if you're going to do a refresh and you're going to try to sell your car that came out 10 years ago for another 10 years, at least make it look nice. Today's episode is brought to you by Hello Fresh. With Hello Fresh, you get farm fresh, pre-portioned ingredients, and seasonal recipes

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That's free breakfast for life just by going to hellofresh.com slash free cars. Okay, moving to the next story, you probably notice that we don't have Doug. Oh, no. What a shame. Due to technical issues, we lost Doug DeMiro, but we're going to soldier on and continue with the news. We come to my story next. All right, that's a big claim. But anyway, we come to my story next, which is the new Aston Martin Vanquish.

Now, there have been two vanquished generations before this, but Aston Martin has decided to bring the name back, and it's quite a car. It has an 824 brake horsepower V12, 5.2-liter turbocharged V-12, it makes 737 foot pounds of torque. and that makes it the most powerful standard production Aston Martin today, not counting the very limited production super cars that they make. The V12 is there, right? Because they borrow their V8s from AMG. It's a new V12. It's a new V12. It's a new V12 engine. That is correct. So, I mean, the stats are pretty impressive. So the top speed of 214 miles an hour. The dry weight, I love this, they said that the lightest option package

and the dry weight of the car means that it weighs approximately 3,900 pounds. So realistically, it's well over 4.5. thousand. Not a surprise, but nonetheless, it's their big GT car. The thing that I found was fascinating is they actually lengthen the chassis. So it's not shared with the DB platform. It's longer by 88 millimeters, which is not nothing. That does make the car quite a bit, quite a bit longer. But my last two favorite things about the car is they say that the capping production, the capping production won't build more than a thousand a year, which they're not going to sell. How many DB11 do they sell? Or DB12? Is it DB12? Is DB12? But I don't, I don't, I don't,

I don't know. And I am sure that they're not going to sell 1,000 these, especially because the starting price is right around $400,000. A thousand a year, certainly not. It seems steep. Godspeed to them. It is a good-looking car. As all vanquishes are.

Yeah, I agree. So the placement, the Astromar lineup, DBX, most important car, the lineup. Obviously. Vantage. DB12, vanquish. That's correct. This is the range topping car. Yeah, for the standard production roadcress.

That's correct, yes. So I'm excited to see it. I would love throughout. I think it is very good looking. There are some aspects of it that are a little weird looking to me, but that's with all the new cars. You have to see it in person. I'm excited to see it in person,

which I'm sure we will soon. I'm sure we will. And like all good Aster Martins, once it comes out, wait a couple years, you'll be able to buy it for half price because that's what happens with them all. Yeah, it is a gorgeous car.

I'm sure it'll be great. And if new V12 is a rare thing. It is a rare and special thing. I mean, it's $400,000, or at least based on the British pricing, which is not nothing. Right. There's other V12 options in that price range.

But it's still special that somebody developed a new one, putting in a car, gorgeous car especially. Yeah. That's cool. Can't wait to see it in person. Yeah. All right.

The next story, Philippa. All right. So there was a new story this past week, that California may mandate speed warming, warning chimes. My goodness, they can't speak. So I've experienced it in Italy in the rental car that we had, where it is reading the speed signs,

as a lot of cars do now. A lot of newer cars do that, Kenon. There have cameras. I wouldn't. They have cameras that are looking for speed limit signs. They'll show you the speed limit in the dash. What I experience is that any time you went past the speed limit,

it would chime at you or it would flash the speed warning sign or whatever maybe. The UK and a bunch of European countries have also rolled out legislation that says we will do this by 2030 or whatever. Maybe California is the first U.S. state to say that they might do that. Their setup is a little bit different. It would chime once every time you exceed the speed limit. I think that that means that it won't continue to chime. Okay, so it's not like an alert that just constant, like a seatbelt like unbuckle alert.

Yeah, and it will only be for cars that have the technology. So they won't mandate that technology. But if your car has it starting in 2030 or whatever year, it would start being used in California. It's not the worst. Like, fundamental, yeah, you probably shouldn't speed. You should know if you're speeding or not. But the thing is...

But it can be really annoying when it reads the speed signs wrong. Yes, that would be annoying. It's like truly, like, it became a problem in Italy. I would turn off the beeps every single time I got in the car because it would read like, you're on the highway and it reads like the off-ramp sign. And no, the highway speed limit did not just drop from 130 kilometers an hour to 50. That didn't happen. You don't need to beep at me.

That's not useful. Okay. But if it's done well, I see the rationale speed as the biggest factor in whether an accident is deadly. It's just kind of annoying. Well, the thing, of course, I see is that like in California, this picture illustrates it. perfectly. We have an M4 convertible going in free, just like freely cruise on the highway, and the other

lanes are dead stop traffic. That is the California thing. So you're either sitting doing no speed at all, in which case this warning is not going to help. Or you're going to go with the flow of traffic, which is always way over the speed limit. And so like it's going to happen every time you use the car. Most

California traffic moves. It would not be a horrible thing if the speed of traffic weren't way over the speed limit. And sure, we're thinking about highways, but like how often do you see people going well over to speed limit on a residential street. True. There's a benefit, but it doesn't really match the reality

of people's driving. I agree. So it'll just be an annoyance is what it's going to be. It's going to be an annoyance. But maybe it'll impact on the margin. Some people will slow down, as they should. And then Kenon will get mad at them for being slower. Right, and then Mike Carlin doesn't think I'll cut around them and off, I go.

But it'll be interesting to see if they actually do it. Like, there's a lot of ideas. And the UK is often the leader in, like, coming up with something. that would be like a safety improvement that's also maybe a little bit overlord watching over you. Nanny state, yeah. Yeah. And they came out with someone there's like a year ago and they were going to mandate it for every car. And then there were a lot of concerns about like the technology just isn't there yet. And like they was going to block people from going above the speed limit.

This is just a warning. We'll see if it gets implemented. It's on the governor's death right now. Kind of low stakes. Yeah. It's a beep. We'll see. It's a beep at the end of the day.

All right. Moving on to the next news story. Yes. it's a very news-heavy week here this is a Hyundaiionic 5 it is their X-R-T trim that they announced that will come out in 2025 there's a bunch of ionic 5 improvements for 2025

it's going to be made in the U.S., which is really interesting and notable for tax credit reasons. It's going to use Tesla's adapter like charging apparatus instead of their current charging port NACS instead of the other one. It has a different battery pack, whatever.

But the XRT trim is their off-road trim. Right. Look at this. Can you describe it for the people? Well, the picture we have, the entire front end is all blacked out completely. So, like, from the hood line down is just completely black. But only on the front.

The doors have, like, a tiny little black graphic on, but it's mostly... The back has a tiny bit, but very little. So if it's the off-road trim, so how much suspension travel, like, how much ride height do you get to gain? It is 0.9 inches taller, which honestly is... It's not nothing. It's not nothing. And there's like a bunch of other, let's be honest, not super meaningful changes. This is so that it looks more off-rody, not so that it is more off-rody.

Right? Like Subaru with their wilderness, there's actual enhanced capability. Yeah. You still shouldn't go off-road in your Ionic 5. But people will think it looks cool. The issue is that it doesn't look cool. I think it looks kind of cool. I think it could look cooler.

It looks to me like they left. I don't like this. Like, they left. like concept car or like pre-production car cladding around camera camouflage around it yeah

I don't like that but this is how it is that is my understanding these are press photos from Hyundai really? Yeah so like basically the only color

you can get it and then it would be black to like make that all blend together am I yeah and it's only a little a few colors I don't know why their press photos are white

it's so stark boy I hope that's not true I hope that that if that is what an easy way to differentiate what trim you have, but what a pointless way to do it. It's so garish. Yeah. I'm hoping that in real life it doesn't look quite this extreme.

I know, I know, I know. I'm hoping that it's not quite as extreme, hoping it looks better in other colors. I imagine we'll see a lot because... The Southern California... People are into it. Yeah, but I do like the lift. Like, I think it looks good, lifted.

That's more of what I mean. The Oakt5 is a gorgeous car, in my opinion. I agree. And I think it does look good, like, more like SUV. It's not dissimilar. I don't know if they, like, looked at the really... R3X and we're like, which is where Rivian's like small SUV concept car, which doesn't look that dissimilar and we're like, true.

I also want to have a brawny car that can. I don't know. I saw the R3X in person. Did you really? During Monterey week. Yeah, we went to stop at the Arabian booth. Amazing. It looks like a bigger, like, an I-I-5 XRT.

No, it looked way cool. It looked like a bigger integrale. Launcher Delfts Integrale. That's what it looked like to me. And even I was like, you know, I'd be kind of into it. Oh, so maybe we kind of will go electric. Maybe. Maybe.

I don't know. Okay, coming to the next new story, this is my story. So I found this to be very interesting. So Ford is offering a power upgrade specifically for the Raptor model. So it's for the Ranger Raptor and the Bronco Raptor. It only costs $825, which is money. But for what this offers, it's an absolute bargain. So it takes the power of the Ranger Raptor up from 405 horsepower or 450-horsepower.

Yeah, 50-horse bar bump. Big. But more impressive is the torque increase. It goes from 430 foot pounds to 536 foot pounds, which is crazy. That's basically a 25% increase. Yeah, from a tune. And the Harvard's part of basically 10%. It's wild.

And it's a tune from the factory that has warranty. You still get the three-year 36,000 mile warranty from Ford if you do this. And to be honest with you, I can't see any reason why you wouldn't do this if you have one of those vehicles because, like, that's easy power. I found this was crazy too. If you want 20% off that $825, if you sign up for their, the Raptor rally, which is a day event that Ford is holding

at their, like, racing school in Utah. If you sign it for that, they'll give you 20% off. You know, if you live in Utah, just do this. Also, the structures are great. They kind of needed more power. They didn't, like, really need more power, but, like, they benefit from it. And for $825?

But I also then wonder if it's that easy for Ford to unlock that kind of power from this, which means they left a lot on the table. What are tuning companies going to do? They must be able to get even more than that out of it. But before I went to a tuning company, I would go to Ford. Oh, of course. For 50 horse driver and 110 or whatever it is,

pound feet of torque. Of course, I'm a believer in keeping things very factory. Of course, I realize these are not really the vehicles you do that with. But nonetheless, like, for 825 bucks, like, man. And we still have the warranty. Only caveat is I don't think it's California legal yet. I'm not sure. I couldn't really find if it is or not.

It's got to go through car by suspect, which is a process that takes a long time. My entertainment is that it's 49 state legal and Ford believes that it will meet California requirements just hasn't done it. Hasn't gotten information. Needs to do it for sure, and especially because there's a huge continued people

here who have these cars, which is exactly a suspect where this picture is taking within Southern California somewhere. I wonder if we'll start seeing people if it will make a difference in the secondary market to have it or not, or if it's so cheap that doesn't matter. I suspect it's so cheap, it doesn't matter. You'll just do it.

If you buy one second hand, I mean, easy. I mean, it's just, that, that is one of the crazier tunes I've ever heard of from the factory. That's wild. But, hey, go, go do it. Definitely go do it. Go do it indeed. All right, really quickly, and then we'll move on from the news.

This is a Honda prologue. They won't let Doug review one. It's not that good. It sold 10,000 units last month, by the way, incredibly. Don't understand how. Don't understand who. But it is also the cheapest Honda to lease. Okay.

You might think to yourself, there's hondas that are cheaper than the prologue, which I assume is $40,000 to $50,000. But nobody, I now understand how they sold $10,000. They actually lease $10,000. Yes. And because it's the cheapest Honda you can lease. Of course, it's also not a Honda. It's made by GM. It's cheap technology.

So what is the least price on this? Oh, I don't know. It was like in the low 300, type 200s. But like, that's cheaper than leasing a base civic. Wow. Or a base CRV or a base accord, all of which are cheaper. Which tells you how you sell EVs. You make them quite attractive to lease.

Make them, yeah, give them a number they can't refuse, huh? That's kind of the story. I don't know what that number is for a prolog for me. Right. I mean, again, it's not, I don't have anything positive or negative to say about it because it's not a car. It's a gray color also. Yeah, but, I mean, that is wild that it's cheaper than a CIVA. Don't buy a Civic.

Lease a prologue. Help Honda pad their numbers. What is it a prologue to? We don't know. We don't know. All right, and that is the end of the news. We can now move on. And I think we can all agree that that went better without Doug.

We don't need Doug. Doug would not be a part of these podcasts anymore. A lot less interrupting. Now we're going to talk about cars. And I would like to begin. I'm scared. Because I know what's coming. My E39M5, if you're playing the cars and bids drinking game at home,

you can go ahead and take a shop because Kennan said E3905 came back from service. And I have the documentation here. Now, for a lot of people, that might be the amount of documentation you have for your entire car. I don't have that much for any, if I combine all my car's histories, I don't have that thick of stack. It's 11 pages of stuff that was done to the car. Quite a bit. How large is a font?

Okay, it's not tiny. That's not, but it's not, you know, I mean, it's not a verbose document. No, it isn't. We had talked about underbody panels that I replaced, which was, which you thought was like thousands and thousands of dollars. But I did pay $1,400 to pay $1,500. By the other body panels still existed. They were just a little worn.

Well, as somebody who took a picture of my car correctly pointed out, they were chipping apart and falling off of the car. And some were hold on with zip ties underneath because I knew I needed to do this at some stage. But now it's done. But the big things were the rear wheelbangs, hubs, axles, and A-charmes. I had some issues with my axles where the boots were shredding and starting to sling grease.

You can replace the inner ones, but not... You can replace the outer ones, but not the inner ones. You have to then replace the whole axle. But they were original at almost 240,000 miles. So it was time. Everything that you've done in this service is underbody panels aside. Fair. It's like wear parts that most people don't experience wearing because it takes 240,000 miles to get there.

Precisely. But I get it. Yeah, it was an investment. I mean, the stuff I did, like I did fuel filter, did a drive shaft service. Drive shaft service. That is a tongue twister. I did differential bushings, PDC diagnosis. I had a sensor.

It was out. Replace the AC compressor because the bearings were worn. shift a carrier rebuild because it was just the bushings were getting one. Wait, can we go back to the PDC sensor thing? You know how you diagnose which sensor is bad. So all of them clicked.

All of them were still clicking. For those that don't know, at a BMW, the way you figure it out is if you listen, you can hear a click at each individual. Like, you can hear each sensor clicking. Exactly. Because they're ultrasonic sensors, so they take.

All of them were doing it, and the issue was intermittent. It turned out it was that there was something internal, like, within the connector that was broken on the sensor it's also in you replacing the sensor that fix that pretty easy um but now kennan won't run into people anymore when backing up then did a bunch of right not that i ever asked but then we were you know we did a bunch of stuff like uh you know center tie rod was worn front wishbones were worn um you know just anything that really exhibited where because i wanted i wanted this to be over with and ryan did

a very thorough job as you tell us the the total i i i can't guess because i already know but if you're at home listening or watching take a guess take a guess take a guess Take a guess. This is a car that has 240,000 miles. 237,976 when the service was performed. It's an E3.9.5, and I will give you a hint. I looked the other day. We have sold 25 E339 and fives for less than this service cost.

Yes. It may be clear. All of them need this service. It may have been 20k or 20 of them. But like, we've sold a lot of M5s for less than this individual service on a 237,000 mile accidented car. Yes, which was my fault. Well, then some other bodywork. Yes.

So the total comes to $14,532. And $36. Tell them the real total without having, without something friends and family. Ryan is an avid listener to the podcast. And it heard us talking about it, how I thought, you know, 12 was where I wanted to be. This is Ryan from E39 stores, which is a great BMW and 5 shop here in San Diego. Yes, the one to send it to you. If you want your car to be perfected, Ryan is without question the guy.

Ryan and his tech Allen, who both did amazing work on the car. the people. But Ryan was determined to try to keep it within the 12 range. And we just could not do that. So the total originally before he gave me some discounts, thank you very much, Ryan. It was $17,073.72, which was hefty. But Ryan found some ways to cut some stuff out of it. He was really determined, and I appreciate that, Ryan. And to be clear, do not expect to get discuts from Ryan because Ryan is worth every penny. And I actually asked him specifically not to give me any discounts, but he was very kind anyway. And it is worth it for the level of quality in detail that they went into because the car is...

For sure. I don't think the service was overpriced. I just think it's an insane number. And I will speak for myself. I'll speak for Doug. I'll speak for every rational human. I think it's a little bit insane to spend that much. Even, I think that it's hard to value your car because it has had so much service. But let's be generous.

And call, say that it's worth $35,000. I think we can all agree that that's... That would be an exceptional result given where other high miles and five is sold for. Your car is exceptional. Yes. We sold one almost identical to mine, had 238,000 miles, but a ton of service documentation. Same color, same year, I believe it was also no two. And it sold for 30,000, $30,000.

Sure. So we'll be quite generous to get at 35. You just spent half the value of the car in a service. Yes. Yes, I did. I just want to say that out loud in that way. Let me be perfectly clear. Like, I get that it's irrational.

I get that I shouldn't do this. and this is probably the last time I'm going to spend this kind of money all this car for a foreseeable future. You've done it all the thing. But you just hit the nail on the head. I won't need to. I have bulletproof what there is to bulletproof. Like there's nothing left to do.

Ryan being as picky as it is, if you take your car to him to get a PPI done, he will come back with 30 pages of stuff that you need. Ryan knows that there are like three things left. One is cosmetics. There's a click in the front suspension. We could not quite solve this time around. And then there's one other thing,

and I can't remember what it was. But it was so minor. It doesn't matter. It's like the car is so sort of. And then I drove it for the first time. Ryan delivered it to my apartment when I was away on the East Coast with you and Doug. And I came back and drove it and it was unbelievable. Like it is, I cannot imagine the car driving anywhere than that. I've driven a lot of E39 M5s in my time. And it is so comfortable at speed. It is amazing around town. It's just like, it's how the car was supposed to be. And it makes me so unbelievably happy. I was like delirious the first time I drove it. And I am now knowing that I can start it every time. I could drive it to Prescott, Arizona, if I had to. There's a new starter. There's a new starter motor, yeah, which the car starts a lot faster, and that's wild. But I just, I have confidence in the car.

And that, for me, with an old car like that, you know, I intend on driving it up to Monterey Car Week next year. I'm not even going to think twice about it. I don't need to. I can just go. The car's going to be reliable. It's going to be reliable for many, many, many years to come. And I'm just really happy with it. I'm glad.

I think one of the truths of being a car enthusiast is that sometimes you're, even, even, you're, even, Even your spending of money might not be fully rational. But if it makes you happy, it makes you happy. Love is not rational necessarily. And in the case of my E3.9 and 5, boy, it is, that is, ain't that the truth. But I love the car. And admittedly, it means I'm going to have to financially take a little break from cars, I think, and just focus on, like, not spending money on cars.

But I am so happy. Ryan did it. E39 source did an amazing job. I adore the car. And I just can't wait to drive it. I can't wait to drive it home today. and for many, many miles in the future. For the curious, that amount is more than I've spent for all my cars except for one.

I believe it, knowing you. More than I spent on, I think, five cars combined. So that's May 39M5, Thales. Philippo, what do you have to talk about your cars? A few weeks ago, Kenan and I filmed the video. That isn't out yet, but we'll be soon, where Kenan taught me how to clean a car. Yes. And we washed my fee of a hundred to Barth Cabrile.

Yes. Until, like, not quite Kenan's normal level of cleanliness, but to what we had time for in the afternoon that we had to. set aside for this video. Yes. And I do meet afternoon that we had set aside for this video. It's so nice of a clean car. It's just like, you see it and it's like, oh, it's clean.

It looks nice. To be clear. It's so rewarding and pleasant. When people see this video, we left the car outside at Filippa's house while he was away in Europe for three weeks. And we're going to pretend that this is in preparation for the video, but it's also the level of planning on the car in general. And it was, I mean, I borrowed it.

briefly while the M5, why I was had it down for the ABS module. And it was unbelievably dirty. The inside of my cars are not generally that dirty, but the outside. But the outside was, oh my gosh, it was really,

it was aggressively bad specifically for this video. Yeah, yeah, specifically for the video. It's never otherwise dirty at all, ever. Right. But you see now, it makes interacting with it a little nicer,

doesn't it? You see it and it's like, oh, right, this is a special-ish car. Yeah. And it, Honestly, like, again, I'm sure I'll get lots of criticism for the way that I wash the car. Every detailing video does.

Everybody has their own methods and stuff. But Filippo's paint is pretty rough on that car, admittedly. To be clear, it was rough before I parked outside. Yep, yeah. But nonetheless, like, it looked pretty nice. It looks so nice. And I will tell you on camera that I went out over the weekend or on Monday and bought some buckets and bought some car cleaning solution. and bought a mitt thing, and bought a drying towel,

and I washed my station wagon, which is part of there. You applied the education? I applied the education. I applied it at, like, Felipe levels, which means I spent notably less than what you would recommend and did it in 15 minutes instead of four hours, because I only had 15 minutes that day. But it still feels, and I will go back out this weekend

and, like, clean it more thoroughly, because the wagon deserves to be cleaned. But it's so nice. You're witnessing the transformation of a man. He has now discovered that it is. It's nice to have a clean car. Oh, Felipe, well, that's nice of a clean car. I am happy to have shared some knowledge with you.

I am very happy that you have some clean cars. It is your e-wagon is off camera and looking very nice. It's looking so much nicer. It turns out, guys, clean your car. Because, you know, your car might be a really nice looking car. You wouldn't know. It sets it off tremendously. I'll give you a little hack to it, because the car will get dusting stuff and you might

want to spread some time. You're very busy. If you want to make a car to look clean generally, clean the wheels, clean the glass. Yep. Car will look substantially getting for a lot longer. We'll save you a little time. But nonetheless, I am like... In this specific case, the car was so filthy.

Oh, yeah. And like, I even had gone through, my wife had gone through like a touchless car wash, and it didn't do nearly enough. So really the focus last weekend was just get out. Hand wash, yeah, handwashing the car really gets in there. And it was so effective. I'm glad.

And now I'm going to keep it clean-ish. I'll hold you too cleanish. More clean. I'm so, that makes me so happy. My job here is done. Your job here is done and I'm a convert. All right. I'll take it.

Wow. That's the... Eventually I'll buy some detail spray. Oh my. Don't, don't tease me. All right. We're going to move on to our market report, which is brought to you by Cards and Bids.

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selling a car, or if you are selling a car, go to carsabits.com slash sell car to get started. I'm going to give a warning before we dive into it. We are using Kennan's hotspot. We're having some internet issues here at our office. For those that don't know and have not watched our office tour, it's an underground bunker. There's not great signal,

and when your internet is down, things get a little wonky, but we're going to try to do a market report. We're going to try, because there's a lot of interesting market stuff to talk about. Okay. You want to start us off? I would like to start us off.

So, you know, we've taken a little highest. We didn't do one live, didn't do a podcast live last way, or didn't film one. Last week you filmed it in advance the week prior. I, we had some good stuff to go over. And one of the things I found that blew my mind has to do with BMW M3. So in general, you know, M3 values have been kind of all over the place. But these two blew my mind.

So an E93M3, that's the convertible version of the M3 from the mid-2000s, late 2000s, sold for $15,250. Now, this car admittedly had a lot of miles on it, had 160,800 miles, and it had an accident, but, and it's the convertible, which is the least desirable version

of this particular car. But it had a manual transmission. It was largely pretty stocked. There were a couple of, but there were some good upgrades, upgraded rod bearings, which is key. And rod bolts,

critical with an E9XM3. So, but nonetheless, it sold, for $15,250. That is so cheap for one of these cars. Crazy cheap. But the thing that blows my mind is that the E36M3 that sold literally right before it,

which was a sedan, manual sedan in white... M345, which is, yes, M345, for those who know, at 126,000 miles, not so less, but also an accident. And it also had more modifications on it, which generally decreases value. But in this case, they're all pretty good stuff on Dining Upgrades and stuff like that,

sold for more, 18,000. $500. I hadn't even thought of the day that I had seen E36 and 3 self more than an E90 of any version of M3. That's a wild. What this really shows is reliability matters and fixability matters. Totally. Because E36, it's not known for being that reliable.

It has some reliability, let's say. But at this point, they're minor and they're fixable. Like you as a person that owns one, if you're not Doug, could go out there in a weekend a couple cold ones and fix a lot of the things. There's great documentation, there's great forums. You can go out and do that. E90, E9X M3s, as we call them. They have real issues, real liability concerns, and they're harder to fix.

And I'm not super surprised that high-mile ones are just becoming kind of too big a question mark for a lot of enthusiasts. They do. Now, granted, like you said, the biggest one, which is the rod bearing is on the car. It was done. It's kind of a bargain. Yeah, I feel like that's still a bargain. I think the perception that surrounds the E9XM3 is that unreliability. Granted, there are also solutions.

There are upgraded rod bearings that, in theory, don't need to be done again. There are fixes for the throttle actuators, which are another big problem. The E93, the convertible, does have issues with the top, and that's all E9-E-93 is like that. It's not specific to the M3. But nonetheless, it is, the other thing is that this, ultimately the E9XM3 is still like, I think really good ones have settled into a nice value spot,

but there are still, a lot of them with lot of miles are still viewed as used cars. And so they continue to go down. in value. But E36M3s are on the classic side of things and continue to go up in value. Now they both have like kind of stabilized value-wise. I'm not saying they're currently on the ascension or the ascension. But regardless

that to me because E36M3s my whole life were $6,000, $10,000. I bought mine for $6,500 when I had one. The mods help this one, I think, because they're all like actual dine-in. But like... But how insane. That's a 4-liter V8, a 6-speed manual,

and performance exhaust. Yeah. gorgeous car, including the convertible. Yep, I tend to agree. $15,000. Yeah, versus $18,000 for a car that has an engine that sounds like an E-flat. You know, it's like, the S-52 is a great engine, but it's like, but this is a V8, high-reving, you know, both are N-A, but like it's, experientially a very, very different car.

I get why fear holds people back. Yeah, and I also realize the E36M3 sedan is very desirable to a lot of people. really like the sedan. So I get that. But wild. What a comparison point. I know. They did sell legitimately

think they were the next, they were ending the same day. It was quite the comparison point. Yeah. It's really, really shocking to me. What's the cheapest E9X have through sold? E9X is one of our categories.

Yes, that's a great question. Let me see. So lowest price one we've ever sold for less than that I'm guessing, DCT was the only one that actually transacted at 15 to 50. We sold a coop too for 16. Oh, yeah, for 16. And I'm guessing, yeah, 150,000 miles.

I'm guessing it had an accident. Yep. Yep, had an accident. And some real, no, flaws. But also a manual. Bargans. If you're willing to put up with the risk, and we can be honest, there is a risk. There is risk.

Or you're extremely handy, and you want to work on. How workable are these? Very. Actually, this past weekend, my friend Jeff, I went to his wedding on the East Coast. He was working on his E90XM, there is an E92M3, and my friend, Nick's garage, amazing lift, incredible. tools like a really great spot to work on. But if you have access to stuff like that, the wherewithal and the determination to work on one of these cars, they're actually quite pleasant

to work on. It, you know, they're real values. And they are awesome to drive. Really balanced, great engine, great looking still. Something to consider for all of us. Not for me. I'm done. I'm not doing, considering it anymore enough on my M5, but. Can I talk about another car that I think is getting surprisingly cheap? Yeah, absolutely. R32 and R33 Skyline GTRs. If you just do Skyline GTRs, I'll get there. Oh my goodness.

Typing is really hard with it. Yeah, it's tough to that. The last few results show this, but there's a ton of results on our site, on other sites across the used market. Wow. R34 is obviously still hot. The really, really nice R33s,

like the one that we sold back in June, 5,000 miles, V-spec, or generally, like, really nice ones, are still bringing money. but R32s when they first became importable in 2014, whatever that was were like low 20s

when they first became importable at the time and then they rose to like mid-30s for a decent example. They've come back down. Now this has some mods, has some issues, there's like wear on the seeds that this is not probably like the best of the best of R32 in the world, but 20K that wasn't like

that wasn't a thing and we sold an R3 or we R&M done we did not be reserved on an R33 that was the middle in Canada but it's legal to import in the U.S. And that was around 30 for an R33, which was a nice one. Interesting. Do you think that's just due to saturation, the number that are being imported that are here now? I bet if I don't know how you'd get this data, but I bet a solid chunk of R32s and 33's at this point are in the U.S.

Like I don't know how many are less in Japan. I don't know how many will still be coming over. There's a lot in the U.S. market. The U.S. and Australia, I would imagine, too, in the markets that you import these. It's pushing down prices for the ones that aren't really special. Like 37K for back in April for a really nicely presented, nice-looking one, great.

The good ones are still making the money. But I think what's happened over the last couple years is that kind of more mediocre examples have reached the U.S. shores, right? You start out with, well, the very beginning is what can you find that's importable? What was the earliest one built? And then it's, what are the nicest one stuff such the most money. And now we've kind of started importing a lot of the ones that are,

have a more questionable history, have some wear, have some damage. And prices reflect that. 20K for an R32. That's a great car. Yeah. I mean,

even if it's not perfect, like to, as a driver condition example, that's a cool, that's a really cool car for 20 grand. Like that's, it'd be hard to beat that, honestly.

Right. It's something I love these cars. I've never driven one. The R33 is actually my favorite version of the GTO, believe it or not. R34 is awesome, of course, but the R33 has always been the one that I liked because I kind of like Marmite cars. The R33 has just always been the one I've resonated with the most. The fact that you can get, like, the R32 at that price, that is crazy that you can get them down there again.

And R33 really are, like, more mediocre ones, or more, I don't know, ones that have some questions or a lot of mods or just some, some, some, some prior history. Right. And you suspect the same thing will then be true of the R34, but given its iconic status, I wonder,

but as more of them come over, surely values will probably do assume as much as more than come over, values will trend down. Just not for a while because people really have an attachment to R34, to Contrares.

Of course. I think that the Fats and Fears movies really meant that those will stay up for a while. But yeah, I am kind of curious. We have on my right now, don't we? We're in R34?

we do yeah man it looks it looks it looks this is midnight purple one or two I think this is it's not midnight

it's just black all right it just looks black it looks a little I mean it does look purple given the polarizer on the lens there

but like man that is a cool looking car that is so cool I don't think these are coming down for a bit but now is kind of

the time to buy an hour 32 or 33 interesting it's kind of time all right something to consider all right I have one last

market report thing Okay. Actually, you can choose which one we talk about. Okay. Leave it up to Kennan. All right. Do you want to talk about GMT 800s? Okay.

I'm from the Midwest. I'm from the Midwest. Or do you want to talk about a great example of why presentation and color really matter for prices? The latter. All right. Pull up the Z3M. This auction ended last week. It is a Boston Green Z3M roadster.

It's the S52, not that larger S54. Yep. Same size, I guess. Not that's 54. Sold for $13,000. guess how many miles ahead I'm guessing about 100,000 miles on this guy

190,000 miles whoa okay yep and we've sold a bunch of high miles impressive Z3Ms there's a stunning number of Z3Ms that have really high mileage wow well they're great to drive they're great to drive and like that's pretty reliable but this was a great example of how you get more money for your high miles even not perfect car there are known flaws here The seller was incredibly thorough with them, which helps.

But the photos are great. The color is good. Yeah, the color is very good. And just like, it's presented so well that it makes you want the car. Yeah. And if you go back to the Z3M page for other cars, we've sold others, including that 1998, that was really low miles, but include that 1998, we've sold others that have way fewer miles, like 46,000 miles, have R&M for less.

But the color matters. people want Boston Green Metallic over silver. And the presentation and thoroughness of that listing made a huge difference, right? Because he was really thorough and known flaws. He disclosed a lot of things that might cause concern that where I think some sellers sometimes are hesitant to be as descriptive

and thorough as they maybe should be because they think, oh, it's going to stop bidding, it'll scare people. No, it doesn't. It makes people want to bid more because they know that you're thorough. Right, exactly. I've said it a thousand times.

Like it's, it just is the, you buy the, and Doug has said it too, you buy the seller, not the car. And so, like, someone who has been really transparent, it just builds a lot of trust. And then you know what you're getting. Ultimately, this is a, you know, 26-year-old BMW with 190,000 miles. It's going to require some work. But, yeah, nonetheless, like, the presentation was good and the guy was third. Photos are excellent. And, yeah, and colors are obviously very hot, you know, people want, especially,

in the 90s, you know, a lot of cars had really cool colors, and Boston Green is one of them. So, I mean, yeah, it all kind of came together for this guy, and congratulations to him. I think 13-2 is a very good number for that kind of mileage on it, especially for an S-52. But, yeah. But I think sometimes when we talk about how to get the most money for your car, the people think that we're talking just about high-end cars or like really, really nice examples. But it's true for all cars. Here's a cheap car, 13K. The dude spent, I don't know, 200 bucks on photos.

more than paid off. Be being thorough, being friendly in the comments, having great photos, 100% paid off. He had a great car to start with the good colors, but just invest time and effort, and there's like a reward for that. Realistically, I would have thought this would be,

knowing the mileage now, I would say it's like a $5,500 car, $6,000 maybe. You know, I don't think that the person necessarily overpaid. I think that they like actually paid appropriately because the guy was so transparent. Yeah. And you seem to be getting a car, a relatively nice one despite the mileage on it.

You know, a believer in the high mileage club, obviously, but very cool. Yeah, that's a great textbook example of how to present a car. Especially compared to some Z3 on presentation. No offense to the sellers of those vehicles. All right.

That's all we got. We're Douglas. We're Douglas today. Yes, we're going to avoid taking questions for today since Doug is not here, and a lot of people want to get his opinion, of course, not just ours. So we will do more questions later on.

You can always go to Cars and Bids, You can go to the community tab where we have a spot four questions specifically, and we will answer them for you on air. But I think that concludes our episode for today. If you like us better without Doug, leave a comment. Let us know. Don't say that. I want Doug here, but, you know, nonetheless, he's playing tennis or eating bonbons

or doing something on Nantucket or whatever he's said. Yeah, and honestly, it's not his fault. It's our office that doesn't have internet. So here we are. Exactly. And he's got a schedule and things to do. But that concludes our episode for today, and we will talk to you. in the next one. Goodbye.