THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends! - Doug's Take on Other Car YouTubers? Time to Buy a Used EV? What's a Car Enthusiast? and MORE! EP8

Episode Date: May 10, 2024

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Welcome to this car pod. I'm Kenan. I'm Philippa. And today we're going to talk about cars. Again? My favorite subject. Let's get into it. Since we've pre-recorded this episode, we don't have the news, but we do have a lot of wonderful conversation topics, starting with Felipe.

Let's hit up with a market report. Yeah. All right. So we've long noted that EVs, especially luxury EVs, have massive depreciation. Right. Lucids, Taikons. model S's, etc. Yeah.

Where do they floor, though? Like, at what point, first of all, do they become so attractive that prices flat out or go back up a little bit? Can you pull up a couple of recent ones? We sold a Taekon Turbo, yes, recently. The Winner Reserve for 83 grand. Oh, man. TurboS. Yeah, that cross-rots for 79, 75 on that one.

They're getting cheaper. What was the TurboS in 2020? What was that must be, 150? Some of that. Right, yeah, compared to the original stickers. We sold the Lucid Air for 70. Yeah. Fiskerosures, obviously, are worth $12.

So you want to know what the floor is? What's the floor? At what point does everybody, like, do you become sufficiently attractive? I'm going to postulate something. Yeah. I think there is a floor. I think there's a floor too. And I don't think it's zero. I think, like, leaps are still six.

Crashy 2012 leaves. I-3s, which you've looked at are still 12. Yeah, especially the, well, the extended range ones are like 15, 18. And so how was this ever going to get to that number? But like, counterpoint is that model S's, early model S's are 13. Why are I-3s and early model S is the same price? That's a great question. I think because one, I think that early model three is like the cheapest is in the 18th,

but go to Model S. I3 have the range of center engine, most of them. I click on lowest price. Yeah, the I3 had the extent, yeah, windows are the worst, worth the most, definitely. Yeah, so we've sold some of these for $12,000. That 2013 model S-16 was a coil-degree metallic with a third row. 15 to 18 all day buys you. It is interesting.

Presumably these cars are pretty reliable, compared to other heavily depreciated use cars. These are high-mile ones. No I-3s are high-mile. And they all have the problem with the door handles. But other than, yeah, that's true. I-3s are all pretty low-knob. Nobody has driven on I-3 more than $40,000.

Yeah. So the question is, is there a floor for these super, super-super-nice-like luxury EVs? I mean, of course there has to be. But I also think that one of the things to consider is, like, you know, compared to the leaf, like, these have actual performance and are actually nice. And so I think that there's, the floor is certainly higher. I don't know. It's going to be specific to each car, of course.

What are those 500 ease? cost? Yeah. There's, yeah, those are like 10 to 12. So those are still valuable too.

So EVs don't ever become free. You'd think they would. I would think that a 2012 New Zealand Leaf is a $9 car. I'm not exaggerate. Somehow it's not.

I think because at that there comes a price point where for just you're driving five miles a day, why not? Right. You don't have to do real changes. You can't.

It's never going to be a thousand dollar car when it's relatively reliable. Right. Because one of the big things that used car, the used car market values heavily is reliability.

And there are problems with EVs. These Teslas have their issues, but the drive train is less problematic than most other $5,000 cars. And so that's going to always be valuable. What is different is like, okay, click on that 2013 model S60. That had 300 horsepower, something of that? Yeah, the 60s are right. But like a Tycon TurboS has 17 trillion horsepower in zero to 60 in two seconds. Yeah, but it's like 75, 80 grand. Right, but like once I get to 30, you're buying an incredibly fast, incredibly high performance car. Well, some of these are that. I I mean, this P85D that sold for $19,000, what's the horsepower in that would be? $690.

3.2 seconds here at 60. So 19 grand is the floor. It's possible. I mean, these Porsches have proven, the four-door portions have proven that they're going to appreciate like luxury cars and not like poros. And Panameras have proven that there is no floor, basically. Yeah, I think that's true. I think Panamores are just going to keep appreciating like S-classes and all those other luxuries. And maybe that's true of Taikons of lucid airs of all of all of this.

I think the other thing that's important to keep in mind, particularly with Tesla, is a lot of the updates are done over the air. And so you're getting like, that kind of keeps it fresh. And so, like, there's a certain point where you just not going to go in a lower. And it helps keep it fresh. Plus, the car was pretty new when it came out, and so it feels pretty new. So, Kenan, at what price point will you buy a Tycon TurboS? Or an RFU-HU-R-F-E-R-T have to be for me.

That's a really great question. We were talking about the R-Setron. I mean, for 30. I mean, in the 30s. Like, yeah. I mean, that's three. I started looking like just out of curiosity, because we had a conversation about this recently.

What are they? So ones with miles in an accident, I found one that somehow has 38,000 miles. For an Audi RFetron G. In two years, that's pretty impressive. That's an R.S.Eotron GT. Yes, R.S. Etron GT. And they want, the list was like 57.

Wow. So that tells you where it's going on. And it has an accident. I mean, 38,000 miles will be the norm for those cars in here in a couple of years. Right. Most of them seem to have like three to five thousand miles in the use market that I was looking at. So it's like, and they're like seven. But those are like, even so those are like seven.

When you consider the original sticker price of that car, it's like, dang. And what's that is? It's gorgeous car. So are you going to buy it? I was thinking about it. It's like I would definitely consider one like in the 30s, I think would be really great. I was like that E3-9 and 5 Boxer Spider, it's a pretty good three vehicle solution. I have my kind of classic with the M5.

That'd be a great daily as long as it stayed pretty reliable. That's the thing. It's like I would imagine it will be, but who knows? I bet it would be. I'll bet it would be too. Why wouldn't it be? Yeah. Like tech issues, sure.

whatever. If the entertainment doesn't turn on, who cares? On the subject of fast depreciating thing, here is a market report of a car that is gaining or holding value, which we never talked about anymore. There was a period for 20 and 21, 22, when every car was gaining value. And it was interesting to talk about what was gaining the most. You're thinking, what car could possibly be

gaining value right now? Here is a suggestion. The very final 200 series land cruisers. Heritage 200 series. So for the 20 and 21 model year, Toyota came with the Land Cruiser Heritage. You probably have to pull it up on that. We haven't sold the Heritage in a while.

You probably have to pull it up on Google. Oh, fair. And 20 and 21 Heritage 200 Series. I remember them. In 21 specifically, which was the final model year of the 200 series Land Cruiser, 201 specifically, they offered a third row. Yep.

And the three row, 2,021 heritage, I have a suspicion, will always be an expensive car. I agree. It'll be a desirable expensive car. All right. It's all in 2022.

This is a 21, but it doesn't have a $1,000. a third row. I think you're 100% right. And what Toyota has now, the new land cruiser, I think there's a lot of great benefits. I think it's a cool car, et cetera. It is not the continuation of the land cruiser. And just like any time when an automaker, when the last of something exists, a body on frame V8, old school, naturally aspirated, hardcore, there will be guys who say, this was the end of the land cruiser in the United States. This was where it stopped. And they just happened to finish the product line with

this special edition model that was limited production and then they made it even more special in 21 by offering the third row and I have a suspicion that this car goes down I don't think it's going to outpace the S&P I don't think it's going to be like a very well but I think this will always be a desirable

and valuable car for the rest of 100% agreed because think about the 0700 series trucks remain desirable. Late 80 series trucks remain quite desirable. The collector's edition 80 series yes they all stay desirable And this has even one more reason to stay desirable, which is they didn't replace it. Oh, well, that too.

They never came out with another one. And so you're always going to be able to look and say, you want the last land cruiser? Yeah, there's that little one with the hybrid engine. They came out with a 25. But the last land cruiser, people are going to say. Are they still trading above MSRP? They're still trading around MSRP. Which is impressive for a car that came out three years ago.

They're actually not all that rare. You know, it's funny because when I went looking for my 13 land cruiser, these were still new. And I had the chance to do it. And I was like, I guarantee this is the right move. It's going to be a smart buy. And I still think it would have held value better than my 13 land cruiser and all of its issues. It wouldn't have cost you 13 grand. Right.

Is it a holding value, though? 200 series trucks otherwise. So pull up, we had one the other day. No sale for like 17. 200 series land cruiser, which has forever been like a someday when it becomes cheaper, I'll trade up my 100 series. 2008 is the first year. They're now dipping into the teens and low 20s.

And that is the other, actually the other point I was going to make. Early 200 series land cruisers are now finally becoming replacements for 100 series trucks. However, based on my personal experience, and then what happened when I disclosed my personal experience, I think a late 100 is actually probably a better car. Really? Yeah. The 5-7 is a much better engine, the greatest engine ever put in a land cruiser, but it has issues. And even when I complained about my issues and I got an enormous amount of blowback on the 200-ser forums,

a lot of them admitted, yeah, they're pretty expensive to keep running. If you do the fixes, they're great. But it's just like D6.m. Yeah, and it's like, well, the whole point of this truck is you don't have to do fixes. And so, yeah, if you put $8,000 into a 200 series, it's going to be bulletproof. Or you just buy a 100 series with that 4-7 that is underpower but runs forever. Yeah. And so I-

And a facelifted 100 series. It's a great-looking truck. And specifically the final two model years. They facelifted it. They got some new colors, gray wheels, a little more power. Those are the ones to get. And I have a suspicion that the market will, over time, value the end of the 100 series better than any of the early 200s,

just because these are more maintenance intensive. And the whole point of a land cruiser is, you don't want maintenance intensive. I think that's 100% right. And that's our 200 series market cap for the market recap for the day. Felipe. Wait, can I ask a quick question? Are they calling the new land cruiser to 300?

No, they're not. The LX. Really? Yeah. Because the LX 600 is a 300 series. 300 is being sold in the US in the form of the LX, but the enthusiasts never really warmed up to it. I can't blame him.

Pull up an LX 600. I actually don't think it's that unattractive. I think that there were, I think the LX 570 and its worst years was less attractive than the LX600 today. We've sold a couple. We've sold a few. LX 600 would have been your better search term here.

We saw approximately a trillion at LX470s. He's typing in the hole. There's no space. Click, click, click, click, click, enter. I don't think it's going to work. I think it'll work. There it is. I don't think that's that bad.

I think that's a nice looking car. It is kind of nice looking, but I get why they haven't caught on. They're a little bit too... And they're too expensive. Right now there's so much money. This is still 106. When I was looking for my new Sequoia, I thought about this because it actually fit all my requirements as well, and they're just too expensive.

Like, I think the sequoia is already too expensive at 82. These, the cheapest I could find was used for 100. And new ones are 120. And they are kind of prettier than a Sequoia. They definitely look better, but that's really kind of the only advantage. They're smaller inside. Look at that interior. For some reason, the interior center stack of the LX 600 is atrocious.

It's so like old car bad. I don't, it's bad. But they're calling the new Land Cruiser to 250. The 250, yeah. So it's like a 50. It's like a half step. SUVs. Yeah.

Filippo, you have an SUV topic for us. I do. On the opposite end, so Land Cruiser's off row trucks. There's also some sporty SUVs. And the McCann market, I find interesting. The McCann market is super interesting. Because we're still in the first generation. of the portion of Macomb. People don't talk about this, but it's like the longest running single

generation. They've done a great job of facelift. They have. And like keeping a modern, and nobody knows that it looks identical. This is 10. 10 years, yeah. It came out in 15. 10.15, yeah. I assume the 25 model will be the new one. But that's 10 model years. What other manufacturer has pulled off a 10-year

model run with no generational change? And made it desirable. Right, because people still buy them and I can't blame them. It looks amazing. Also, you want to talk about used bargains? Yeah. You're early Macon. are unbelievable used bargains, and they're reliable. Everyone I talk to tells me that they're reliable. This one is 17-5.

Can I give you a counterpoint though? Go back to just the general ones, because to me the big bargain is actually the turbo. Yeah, oh, yeah, 21. Early turbo are 20 grand. You don't pay that much more. Yeah, they're 20 grand. Click on that.

That's a serious card. That's a dual clutch. How much power does it have? That's a dual clutch with 400 mores power. Those were doing zero to 60 and probably, I don't know, high fours. It's like a hot hatch, but it's an SUV. But it's a Porsche. And it has dual clash.

And it looks like identical to a new one. And it looks like a brand new one. No one would ever know you spent 21 and bought it from some dude in Colorado. Wow, that is such a compelling guy. Who lowered it. I love the way they drive to. They drive so great. They drive fantastic.

I've never been in a Macon. Compared to a Q5. Only career GT, right? I have been in three portions in my life. That's not a joke. Yeah. I've been in a Fortune Career GT. I've been in a Boxer Spider.

Sam's Boxer Spider. What was the other one? I've been in our producer, Sean's. A Cayman. But was the CRRGGT is the first portion you ever read? Currici is the first portion ever written. That is a Canon statement. You've never driven a Porsche.

You should drive the CourageryDT then. Oh, I've driven a Cayman. But I will happily drive the courage of GT. No, you wouldn't be unhappy. You'd be very unhappy driving. But I've never been at NamaCon. I had to, I dropped the CareerGT off at Stephen, my detail guy for detailing. And I had to move it.

And I was like, all right, here's a deal. Get in. We have a long conversation to have. And I'm going to show you how this works for the clutch because it's such a disaster. You would never be able to figure it out. Yeah, it's not a disaster. It's just conventional driving methodology is what's the disaster. You can drive it conventionally.

You'll just eventually wear out the club, which is expensive. But Porsche McCann's. But how did they pull it off? I'm trying to think of other cars that have had a long model run. They baselifted it well. Didn't the Q5 also have the same situation? I mean, every single Audi has been around for 12 years. The Q7 is in its second generation since 2017.

It came out of 2017. Somehow. It's the hottest segment known to man. Yeah. But the McCann has pulled it off. Honestly, the Kyan, second-gen Kyan also pulled it off. Yeah, I'll go in the third gen. The thing is, though, when you say but, like, these redesigns are redesigns, even though they don't look at.

This is one of my biggest problems with Volkitt's on the same exact. The McCann is not a reason. All right. The Cayenne was, the Q7 was at one point. Well, the Cayenne was this year. Yeah. And it came out in 2012. Yeah, it came out for the 11.

11 all year. Portia pulled that off, though. Credit to them. Porsche and Audi have been that. But it makes early one a deal. Because early Kyan's are also 15 and 20. Yeah. Also early second gen.

Early first gen Cyanens are free. My, yeah, a random person on the street would think you bought a new car just like Can you pull off some Cuyons? Because that's not a bad idea. Oh, you're thinking about getting a kind of. No, because I want their road. He's going to get a Yenny. Manual ones still desirable.

The early B, second gen X, six manuals. Manual ones are such a rare. And the DL ones are kind of desirable. But. So, S hybrid. Why do I not own a Cyan S hybrid? You know, the S-hybrid is actually the one to get.

So here's an interesting story. When I worked at Porsche... I'm going out today. When I worked at Porsche, I was working there when we came out with this Kian. And it was the hottest car on the planet. They were all getting exported overseas. Everybody wanted one. They were backed up like crazy dealers except for the hybrid.

And so when we had a dealer who was desperate for a Kian who had a customer or whatever and they couldn't find it, we would give them a hybrid. Well, the hybrid's actually pretty good. This is the same supercharged V6 from the Audi S-4. And then it just had a hybrid component. But no one wanted it. It's not a plug-in hybrid. It's just a regular all-hybrid.

And the dynamics were fantastic. It was a great car. Why don't I? And this power train was made it to Tiptronic, which sucked. But all Coyans had Tiptronic. So it's not even a drawback in this car. It is in the Panama. And they had to because for towing, right?

All Coyans have Tulloch couldn't handle it. Because of towing, yeah. Whereas all McCanns have dual clutch because they figured no one was going to really tow big loads with them. Yeah. This is a great car for that kind of money. For 10? For 10. I paid 108 for my M5 back in the day.

140,000 miles. You would screw this up. You would screw this up and buy a super high mileage one for cheap. but for 15 or 18, you can get a really good, like a legitimately good one. A diesel is what you really ought to be looking at. We sold a GTS for 15.5. I would look at a diesel, like a mid-option diesel that has lower miles. You know, one time I drove a diesel, like six miles on a single tank of gas.

That's your dream. Congratulations. I'm too well hydrated for that, but it's fine. I like the GTS. The GTS is a good car. Our friend Nick has one, and he's had that car for a long time now. Four years, maybe five years? Never once had an issue.

Look at that. My uncle had a turbo S. Never had a problem. Totally. Everyone I know who's had a second-gen has never really had issues. What is that red one for 18? That's what you should have bought,

Philippa. This is only a couple months ago. Diesel, red. How many miles is on this? Or lifted? It looks like it's in Virginia. This could have been yours. You screwed up.

Sure did. You should apologize. Philippa with a Porsche, though. Can you imagine? Do you let you go from where you started with your cars and then you have a Porsche, you know, I think you would like it too.

I would love a guy. I think you would like it legitimately. There you go. There's your next car. Okay, so on to our next topic for today. Automotive happenings and thoughts in our lives. Kenan, you have a good one for us. Yes. It recently came up. I was having a conversation with somebody else about what makes a car enthusiast. Like, what signals a car enthusiast from someone who's just like tangentially in the cars? And I've thought long and hard about this because it's going to come out that I'm not a car enthusiast. No, I think the opposite. I think that you are. So I was thinking about like, okay, what are enthusiasty things? So one thing I think is like a knowledge. or understanding of how to drive a manual transmission, I think is, like, one thing that differentiates a lot of car enthusiasts.

Sure. It's, like, a dividing line for a lot of people. I think another thing is, like, an appreciation of older cars. Like, I think you have to, like, have some level of appreciation for the past, and that kind of shows taste. Because anybody could go get a new car, but if you get something old, it's, like, for example, that we have an E-34 M540I sitting here. Someone shows up in that car.

That person has, like, gone out of their way to drive something cool. Even your A bar is like I think that's like that's in that Okay cool so we're kind of 10 years old Or we're good now The difference also is like someone pulls up in a Hurac Someone pulls up in a kuntosh That's the difference like the kuntosh person's like Okay well there's somebody who has taste and it's like clearly an enthusiast

Yeah I agree there are to real enthusiasts who are like sophisticated Yeah there's a sophistication nuance understanding And the non-enthusists don't get it people it's interesting I was having coffee the day There's friends our kids were playing and everything and an f8 pulled up an F8 spider. And they don't know anything about cars, which is whatever. And they said, oh, that's like your car. And I was like, yeah, you know, for them it is. But for an enthusiast, when I see a new Ferrari, which I was driving next to an F8 the whole way here, a black F8 spider, the whole way here today at work. And when I see a new Ferrari like that, I just think this person is someone who's got money.

I don't think this person is someone who is sophisticated. Like, I don't get keep it with like specific things. Like you have to know manuals, you have to have the old stuff, whatever. But I do think when I see a Huracan or McLaren, like, this person likes cars, they want to go fast, they want to look cool. They're not necessarily an enthusiast. Maybe they are. You have to talk to them now. Maybe, yeah. You can tell them the conversation immediately.

They say something that's completely wrong about the cars, like the first thing. Or they quote something you know is just totally wrong. I remember we were at a car meeting, a guy, a South African guy came out with an R8 and said that this has a special Huracon Vita. It's like, no, it doesn't do. It was like that. There's certain things you can say. Non-enthusists don't realize how quickly a real enthusiast can tell. Within two minutes conversing with someone, I can tell.

And I don't have any qualms or complaints about someone who's only a partial car enthusiast or only know. But I can, if they're trying to like pretend to be like, they think you can't tell, but you can tell instantly what level of car enthusiasm. they're at. I agree. And to be clear yet again, it's like this also doesn't, you don't necessarily have,

it doesn't have to be expensive cars necessarily. That's right. I think also you can appreciate these cars and drive something totally normal. Maybe you can't afford to get to these cars yet. The enthusiasm behind the topic and knowledge of it is what distinguishes you in my mind of a car enthusiast. Whether you have money or not.

And I think that's what's really important to get. And like you said, you can sniff it out in a second. You can sniff it out in a second if you're a really true enthusiast. But I... And so you have a lot of car knowledge. Yeah. A lot of cars.

So I love car. I consider you all day long, enthusiasts. But I do think that the people who only think of cars as status symbols or who only think of cars as fast, like I'm happy to have a conversation with someone at a gas station when I'm filling up my car, hey, you know, how much power is it having that kind of thing? But when you ask me how much power the Kuntash has, instantly that is kind of a sign for me.

Like, you probably, if you're thinking in that realm already, it's stuff like that. Like, you can definitely tell fairly quickly, yeah, like maybe this. And then you just have to tailor your conversation a little differently. But I don't, and I don't care about that. But it does annoy me when people pretend. Yeah, it's the faux enthusiast. Because they know a car enthusiast is cool,

but they don't want to invest the time into developing the nuance and sophistication to have the conversation. That's exactly it. Remember when we were at Cars and Coffee and that kid came up to me and said, I'm going to start an Instagram that's going to be the hub of car culture in San Diego.

And then he said, is that your Lamborghini cantouche? Yeah. It's like, huh? Well, good luck, dude. And he said it like four times, too. And eventually I had to be like, it's actually cool. Yeah, the wild moment. Yeah, that was an interesting one.

And those happen. And they're always fun to think about later. Yes, it certainly happens. Can I ask a related question? Yeah. What new cars to you say does it maybe actually a car enthusiast? Like seeing just a car itself, especially what expense of new cars? That's an interesting question.

What would you, if you, if you were an enthusiast that wanted a new car, no, I'm kidding. No, there are. There are cars. 812 is an enthusiast car. Oh, sure. You have to understand, in order to skip over the Roma and the California, which a regular dude in Newport Beach thinks is cool,

and actually spend all the money for a V-12, that requires a certain level of, like, understanding. And they are also so ludicously expensive. No, you have to really want the V-12 Ferrari thing. And people do understand that with that car. It's special. I would say... The Boxter Spider, actually, is a particular way.

Because it's a monster. To my wife, you passed up a 9-11. And then GT4RS and all those. Like, those are actually, Gt3RS less so. I think there are people who watch enthusiasts who buy those cars just to flex. But I think GT4RES, you passed up a 9-11, you're real. I agree.

And again, also, Stick M3. Manual transmissions are an easy distinguisher. Like these days with new cars just because they're so rare. Especially the M3 is a great example because the competition is faster. Right. As more performance.

But you really wanted that. that third pedal to shift gears. I know what you're saying. You don't see that competition underline. I know what's going on. You know, one thing that is surprising to me, driving the career GT, that always is a good indicator of what people are going to.

Because regular car enthusiasts don't necessarily notice that. You kind of have to be more into cars than you would think. You know who never notices that car is people in Camaro's, Mustangs, and Challengers? Never. And those are enthusiasts to a degree, but I guess maybe there's not a crossover or whatever. I wouldn't consider someone who buys a Mustang Camaro or Challenger not to be an

enthusiast necessarily, certainly a lot of people who you are. But I just can't imagine not knowing that it's a career GT if you claim to be into cars. But that's kind of that level of enthusiasts, there's a lot of levels. It's a super car. It's like it's a real. It's an icon. I did the other day. I have 996 door handles.

I mean, yeah, the F50 had, you know, a Fiat switch gear, I'm sure, but it doesn't take away from the car. I don't look at those. The other day, I passed a can. in like a base 987 came in on the freeway. And the career GT just flew by. What do you think that guy's thinking? That's what I think. That's a fast boxster.

My dad had a career. That's my favorite one people come up to you. I tweeted today this thing. Porsche sent me a letter. Okay. Porsche corporate in Atlanta sent me a letter saying our records indicated it's time for you to service your 9-11

career GT. And they actually said 9-11. And this was not the local dealership that sent this letter. The address is one Porsche drive in Atlanta. It was the corporate headquarters. That's embarrassing. And later in the letter, they again said,

I'm sure you take great pride on your 9-11 Carrera GT. Do you think it's AI they have doing that? It's someone who doesn't have a photo of a 9-9-9-2. Yeah. 992? Wow. It's like a red coop.

Like, that's my 9-11 Carrara GT, I guess. Well, if you work for course to corporate, you should pay more attention to your courage. Are you going to reach out? Needless to say, I will still be servicing the car with Jimmy, as does everyone else. Yep. Isn't that hilarious?

Amazing. I remember when I worked at Porsche one time, we sent out a letter to customers imploring them to, it was some sort of promotional letter, and the guys who had written the letter in that department didn't know much about cars and were new to Porsche, and they had written in the letter like, you can get this much off your new Boxter, and they spelled it B-O-X-T-E-R, Boxter.

That's, official communication. Right, epic. Portia's a brand that, like, Like, you should be an enthusiast. Like, you have, I'm surprised that was overlooked. When I worked there, most people were. Yeah.

Truthfully, almost even in weird departments that didn't really touch the car. I think to a degree that brand seems to still attract, like, real car enthusiasts work there. Although every time I pass a cayenne and the couragey tea and they don't even look, I just, I literally started laughing that it was right in front of a nice macon, good color, and this woman's fashion doesn't even like, doesn't even consider looking at the couragey. It's so funny. It's a different.

There's like two brands within the brand. Yeah, you know. Yeah. Hey, that's how they've been successful. Yeah, that is, and they've been very successful. Filippo, helping people choose the right car. Yeah, all right, so I've mentioned this before, but I have friends that are considering getting a new car for the first time.

And you and I have talked a lot about other friends that are asking us for advice. Yes. It's so hard to advise as a non-car enthusiast on what to buy. Right. Because like, if I'm talking to Kenan, but what to buy, I'm thinking about what will be fun, what will he enjoy, what is unique. And your recommendation to me will not be the car I want. Sure.

But like in general, if it's like an enthusiacy person, it's way different than somebody who you know has never thought about cars. Is it just so hard not to say, if you don't name of a car, Toyota Crolla. It is. It's just how do you decide? People have the most bizarre requirements. They have the most. For example, they want to drive across the country. They want to have seven seats.

They want to be able to go off road. They need to have good self-driving. I solved that problem with my giant. But you don't want to misguide them. You know that you will be blamed implicitly. for every breakdown they ever have, for any issue that they have. So you've got to give them the right advice. Yeah, it's hard.

I got hit up for small luxury crossover recommendations. And you just... We know, unlike Kenan, we know these cars. What I want to do is just say, look, buy one of these three. But they need reasons. And then what... The other thing is, this happens also. This guy, I've 2 billion YouTube views and I've driven 10 million cars.

Yeah, but my aunt says... Right. My aunt really likes Volvo. So what do you think about Volvo? Or whatever, you know? Or my sister has a used Q5 she's willing to sell me. What if instead of the 19 new cars we've been discussing for the last 36 minutes, I just buy my sister's 2018 Q5.

I can't believe you, someone who values time so much would even entertain that conversation. I got roped. It went longer than I expected. And, yeah, it happens a lot. I'm sure it must happen to you guys all the time. Oh, yeah. All done. You're the car enthusiasm.

I only associate with car enthusiasts, so it's an easier. Parents' friends don't... Your sister's friends don't call... No, actually, no, because I don't... I haven't know, maybe they're intimidated because it's like... His family buy the Sussleubleuzee. Yeah, my... Your parents don't ask you?

I mean... Not really. They went out and sent me a picture of the assent that they bought, and that was like, we've got a new car. I'm like, well, all right. Thank you for asking. But I also wouldn't, yeah, it wouldn't be able to provide any input there.

My experience is an exotic car, so... The people just have... wild requirements, as you said, and like weird, insane things. And they will refuse to go test drive the car to see if they'd like it. You're like, my first advice is, these are a couple cars, go look at them. Do you feel comfortable inside?

No, they will not. Sounds familiar. We told you do it with the C7. You know what I told people to do? You know what I told people to do? Go to CarMax. Because they, your local Carmex usually has, of the eight cars these people are looking at, any CarMax usually has five.

And that's at least a start. That's what I tell people sometimes. I have gotten something new today. For the friends that I'm helping, one of them who's very much an engineer, he has a PhD, he sent me like a spreadsheet of like, this is the true cost of ownership.

Consumer report says this. If I pay $250 extra in a dock fee, will I make that back? And that I actually appreciate. Because data, sure, it's the anecdotal, my wife's cousin's best friend had a cool,

in 1980 and hated it. I agree with your general point, but the people who try to work out every last dollar, it's just, if some point you have spent too much time, you've lost time to this, that is not worth.

Is $200 over the life of a car going to really matter? Right. Even if you factor it into your payments, what is $200 over 60 months or 48 months? You know what I've decided the advice is, everybody? Buy a Kia Nero hybrid. Kia Nero hybrid.

I'm not joking. I think I've, It's kind of what I've landed on as my decision. Huh. To everybody. Just whatever they ask. I will say that the new Prius answers a lot of questions. I'm thinking about an EB.

Nah, get a new Prius. I'm thinking about a hatchback. How about a new Prius? You're not wrong. I'm thinking about sleeping in my car. How about a Prius? You're not wrong. New Prius is a good choice.

I want something attractive. Guess what? Got the solution for you as well. New Prius solves a lot. And honestly, when people come to me, hey, I'm only going to luxury crossover. Do you really need all that or could you do it in a new Prius? on the subject that you just mentioned

here's one for you I don't think that people think enough about depreciation when they're thinking about cars 100% true I had a Twitter fight the other day oh god yeah with a fella who said to me By the way it's X

right X.com but if you go to Twitter.com it's still worse fun fact by the way we'll get into this there was evidence that Twitter has started if you type into like a tweet Twitter it will change that to X but it's not very smart

about how it does that. So if you like do like I don't even know a site that's Twitter cars.com it was changed that to xcars.com right got it it does it just does it which is which yields some interesting results. You know I got my blue checkmark deck. Oh wow yeah I didn't pay oh congratulations but I think they just I think they realized it was kind of a failure and so now people with blue check marks is a hodgepodge of people who paid right and some legacy people from before and so are you going to add to your bio I did not pay for the blue check more? Honestly, there are so few legitimate people using Twitter anymore, like legitimate people that it does. I don't really care. All right. Well, those is the debate. Someone said to me

that I should have bought, oh, like a new range. And I said, it's too expensive. Yeah, there's someone, you have to be so rich to just eat that depreciation. Right. And instantly, two or three people were like, you're being disingenuous. You have a Carrera GT. And those people, people don't, people are just so bad with finances is what I've learned. Yeah. And, and, don't understand, how could you, to me, I sit there and I think, how do you not understand the difference between those two things? But people think, oh, he spent a million dollars on that car that is spent. That is more than spent. Right.

That is more than spending 250 on a rangeover. So he's lying to me. And I'm thinking, but what they don't understand, it's like the Ford GT. This is why a great example. They paid $225,000 for that car. And I'll probably put $40,000 into it, central water, including taxes and insurance. So I'm in that car, 265. I think it's worth $325.

It is made $60,000. Okay. A Honda Corps. You don't make $60,000 in a Honda Corps. It has not beaten the stock market or housing or anything else. It hasn't cost you. It hasn't cost. But it has for certain owners, the CareerG-T.

Yeah, that's right. The Career GT has absolutely made people money. I don't think it's going to make me money. I think it's rise has already happened. I think there will be a time that it appreciates in the future, but it's years away. But the point is, though, it's not going to lose. Right. Exactly.

You can't, as you've said, quote, I can't afford for it to lose. And like, right, like, so a full size, a new full size range. I saw it, I saw it, I saw S65 the other day. S65 is my dream. That's my dream. I won an S65. That's a solid what?

$60,000 in depreciation over the first year? Year one. Yeah. In year one. That's like a 260 car. And I saw one the other day and I told my wife like, I want this car. I said, wanted to get it. I'm like, I can't afford that.

You don't understand. Like, that car, I think in three years, loses $180,000 in value. Yeah, easily. And I, I kid, that's insane. Yeah. Because, yeah, it's just lit on fire gone. It's depreciation is the cost that nobody feels until you go to sell the car.

Yeah. That's the one. Like, people feel maintenance, you feel, you know, whatever, but that's the hidden one. So you want to know why I drive around on a used station wagon that was $60,000. I can't believe you were still living through this being used. Well, it was a year old. Okay, but it wasn't. But it wasn't, it wasn't, what I really want.

It was under MSRP. What I really want is an S-65 for 280. That's what I want. Like, I want to drive around that. That's cool. It would be cool. It would be cool. I agree.

But it's cool. It's never going to. No, of course not. But you could buy a three-year-old one for 50. Even those, if you look, though, this is the thing that really annoys me. Even three-year-old ones are like still $130. And then I said, you know they're going to keep depreciating. That thing is going to be 20 when I'm done with it because I'll keep up five years.

The flip side of what we're saying about EVs earlier, which is they will be 30. The TIGONT server west. Somebody paid 170 for that. Yeah. Pry. Or, yeah. It's probably an even better example. It's just crazy expensive and now they are not.

And they're giving huge incentives, but it's still. not enough to, I mean, you're still going to get destroyed and depreciation. There are, of course, benefits to buy new, obviously. Some financing benefits, warranty benefits, maintenance, plan benefits, whatever. Yeah, I think, but if, if, I think the approach to that is if a car is really expensive, and you know, like, based on trajectory, it's going to lose an incredible amount of value, then leasing it makes a whole lot of sense. Or certified pre-owned.

The day that certified pre-owned came out was the day that I stopped buying new cars. Yeah. Like, I love it. I think it's the greatest thing in the world. Too much of a premium for me, relatively. He's still not willing to do that, but you get my point. I wouldn't want to lose that extra value. If it's five grand more, I'm going to lose that five grand.

When I was looking for CPO cars, I never was able to really identify that like it's an actual added premium. It seems to be about what it should cost anyway. It's just looking at cars that aren't available. E450 altering. For example, because they've sold three in the last year. I just think it is so interesting to me that people are so bad with money when they think of it that way.

And part of it could be that I now have a lot of money, but when I don't think about the purchase price that much. Yeah. I think about what is that. the total cost of ownership for this vehicle. That's what I'm thinking about. Exactly. I see people's perspective on the bar, the barrier to entry is much higher.

But yeah, it's, you have to just think beyond that in terms of actual cost. What are you actually going to spend? And the best way to do it is like cost per mile is like I think is a really good one for how much you use it to determine cost. But yeah, depreciation. That said there is very much a balance because if you go too much to avoiding depreciation, you end up with incredibly bad cars. And I've had that thought before.

You've got to accept that you will lose some money on your car. Even well into my Ford GT ownership, I had a $40,000 cap on cars. Daily driver cars, 40 grand. One of the last time you bought a car for under $40,000. Right, A class. And so, at this point, 40 grand, that hit me. Like, I want newer stuff.

I want to be more comfortable. I want to lower my car. I just want my kids, I'm driving around. I don't want to deal with all that. Safety. And it became 65. And we also have had three years of cars not depreciating. The other thing that I'm just going to say that.

Not an S65. An S65 will forever depreciate. Pan Amara will forever depreciate. There was someone who commented. Like a Corolla. When I sold my Land Cruiser, no, it's the most recent comment in my Land Cruiser listing. Some guys like, I sold it for like 35.

Yeah. And some guys like, didn't you? Yeah, click on that and then go down to the comments. The most recent comment is like, didn't Doug pay a lot more for this just a couple years ago? Yeah. That's how cars work. It's funny to me,

but I think there's a lot of people. There's a younger contingent of human beings who from like 18 to 23 did not experience automotive depreciation and thinks that's the norm. And did I pay a lot more for it? Yes. That's how this has gone historically. I mean, yeah, for such a, it was such a short period of time where depreciation didn't happen.

I mean, crazy short of people just, it's amazing. Think about 08.09, like recessions, people come right back to doing the same bad habits they had when you have two or three years, the incredibly short memory. reason. Yes, for sure. I am thinking, like, the friends that I'm at that I'm helping buy a car, they're looking at like one or two-year-old cars, and they've noticed that a new corolla

basically the same as a two-year-old corolla. They just aren't that many for sale, and that means that prices aren't that different, which is true for a subset of cars. Not for luxury cars, which depreciate rapidly. But for some cars, I get it. I don't begrudge with them looking at a new carola instead of spending two gram less.

long period of time. Right. But I think, but you would also add some confusion there. Right. I am surprised. I'm just some surprise

because like I remember, you know, much older people saying, oh, second, you're driving off the lot of 10%? That apparently is out of people's minds now. It's going to get back in their minds

when they have $1,400 payments on pickup trots. And everybody has to realize how negative equity. Seven year loans and. Yeah. That's going to all come back to haunt these. If people aren't thinking about that,

and clearly they're not because this comes up every time I make it's comment. like this. You can't afford it. What are you talking about? You're lying. I think about it in a, in my opinion, it's a smarter way and it's a more long-term way than just what's the cost. How much this is going to cost me per month? You know, that's not how you should be thinking. A year ago, so in the spring of 2023, markets, a value, car value started collapsing a little bit for some cars. Yeah. The number of people that came in submitted their car. Yeah. We gave them the current market value. And they're like, I can't do that. The,

we think the truck is worth 45, they still owe 70 on it. Yeah. I'm sorry. Your only bet here is to wait another 10 years. And then sure, you'll reach a floor and you will have like hit it off. Exactly. That's exactly right. Yeah, I can't imagine.

So much underwater. And also we had a lot of people in that time saying, I'm just going to wait until the market improves. Oh, man, another gigantic mistake. I'm just going to wait until the market improves. And it's like, okay, good luck, sir. Like spring of 23, like, give me six more months. Everything's going to turn around.

This thing will be worth more. No. And guess what? It, in fact, was not. Okay, next step, I want to move on to our question and answer segment, questions and answers. Now, remember, you can ask us questions if you go to the communities tab on cars and bids.com, and we will answer your questions. This week, we've pre-recorded this podcast, so the questions are not a couple days old. We went to some other questions.

Still good questions. It doesn't matter. The point is, we got a bunch of questions, and they are still great. And I'm just going to go right down the list. I love them all. All right. Let's do it. Starting with Saziz 1022. I noticed Marquez Brownlee from MKBHD references you a lot, and he seems to be a fan. He even mentioned he was selling his Tesla Model S. Plaid on on cars at bids, which he did do, and he got good money for it, and we were happy to have it. Have you ever thought of doing a collaboration with him since he is now also reviewing cars in the Autofocus Channel, or do you see him as a competitor? Okay. Marquez does car reviews now,

and he's great. They're excellent. He mainly does reviews on like the hottest tech, newest electric cars, which makes sense to go along with his channel. I was on his podcast. I did a collab with him once. I went on his podcast,

and I would love to do another collab. We obviously live in completely different sides of the country. But this was essentially a collab. He sold this car with us and it disclosed it and did a video on it and it did really well for us. It got over 400,000 views. He did really well on the sale price. Everyone was happy.

The reason I pulled this question is because, I, the question is, do you see them as a competitor? I want to be very clear. I do not see any of these people as a competitor. Wow, where does this go? Let's make some news. Let's go. There was a time when I did, but we, you know, I launched the business, cars and bids,

and it kind of refrained my outlook about the YouTube channel. And so now I try to just be super positive and supportive to all of my YouTube channel, car YouTuber. Compatriates. Compatriates. And so like throttle house, I love. Rady's Rides guy, I love, straight pipes, I love, I met Matt Watson, he's awesome. I don't see any of them as competitors, at least in my mind.

You're friends with so many of them. Who we was here in studio the other right, Throttle House stopped by to say hi. Yeah, Toronto House was here the other day. Robert Dunn, aging wheels, we love. There is, and I haven't met them all, I admit, I don't know them all, but the ones I do know, I just want to be supportive and helpful. And even if it comes at the personal expense of some of my own views and some of my own revenue, you know, we're in a different position than we were a couple years ago where

I would be upset if I saw someone get a video out 20 minutes before me or a day before me or whatever. Like, it's, I don't, I wish them all well and I really want them all to succeed. And also, I've never felt that it was a zero-sum thing. Yeah. I've never felt that like me succeeding means throttle house not succeed. I think people watch both and can watch both and I think that's totally fine. So watch them all the time. I just go down the list and watch everybody's videos. I'm taking an elder statesman role. I like it. I, I, I, As I get older, and a lot of these people do come to me and ask questions and like, what are your thoughts on this or that? And I will give them now completely honest, realistic, correct feedback as I know it, even if it means they get more views than me on whatever.

Totally choke. I love those. I'll also say about Marcus Brownlee. It's so cool to watch him, like, learn about cars and, like, explore car enthusiasm. And when he got his turbo-ass, I'm like, good for him. Like, he's really learning, like, the nuances of course. It's just fun to watch someone go through that process and, like, be interested and enthusiastic about it. He is also, it's worth pointing out, like, just a really stand-up.

guy and really high quality person and a high quality worker. And I like people like that a lot. And it may look, we may all look like kind of idiots or some of us may. I know I do. But to get to the level where he is or I am on YouTube, you're not, it's challenging and requires some real dedication and effort. And he is that type of person. I watch a lot of NKVHG's content across their YouTube channels.

And I listen to their podcast. I think it's the only podcast that I listen to regularly. Legitimate. Sorry, I'm part of this one. I don't listen to it. I think they're great, and I also look to what MKBG does as a company. Yeah. Because they're not that the similar size from cars and beds.

They're doing great content. All of it's fascinating to see what other folks are doing. And by the way, of all the people, even if there were people I consider competitors, Marquez, I mean, he's mostly a tech reviewer. And I think he does a great job reviewing the tech cars, but I don't think we'll ever, I don't think he's ever going to leave his career to start reviewing. I mean, I just shot a sob 93 Vig, and I don't think we're going to see out on the Marquez Brownlee channel anytime soon. But, Marquez, if you want to come here and review that, say, 9-3-Vagan. Okay, next question from 208, GMC, Sierra. Not 2008, but 208.

208. When will Doug be reviewing the Ferrari SUV? Kenner, what's it called? The Piro Sangue. No. Filippo? Furo sangue. Oh, God. Great, thank you.

It's so different. No, I would never have known what I was talking about. It was wrong. It was right. Impossible. The answer is, I don't know. Which I thought was not an acceptable term. Apparently, it was supposed to come down.

It is for a word. While they speak, I'll answer the question. Apparently, it was supposed to come out in the spring, and here we are in April, or May, as you're watching this, and it still is not here. It's been out in Europe since, I don't know, the Romney Obama. And I saw it at Pebble Beach, saw it'm driving around. It's around. It's no problem. On sale, many other places.

Been reviewed all over the internet. They're starting deliveries to customers, though. There are a couple of people I know who have gotten them, I think, and my uncle slated to get one at some stage. I would love to be a part of this, but I've been emailing. the Ferrari PR guy and he doesn't have a press car yet. And typically, with Ferrari, I work with their PR people, but typically there's a couple of people who I work with who actually get me the cars before the PR firm gets them,

or before Ferrari PR gets them as press cars. And I suspect that will be the case here, but it's still not here yet. So I'm excited to review it. Yeah, I have a hunch you're going to, I suspect you'll love it. I mean, I think it's heinous. But this is deep and Doug's loving wheelhouse.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, V12 SUV. I think we have a, this question. What's not the like? Well, it is heinous. I don't think it's hanging that person. You are, do you look at it or maybe you haven't looked at it yet? I've seen it in person and, you know, I don't, I don't.

People say it's like it looks like the Mazda, CX, whatever. Oh, you know, whatever that is. I know what the Ferrari is, but I don't know. I just don't think. Kind of the pure blood. Yeah, there she is. I don't think it looks like that Mazda at all. I think that's a stupid meme.

But it is heinous. I don't even know what Mazda they mean based on the photo, to be honest. Like, why is the front end so long? You know what it looks like? It does. I'll tell you, you know why it's long? I'll tell you why it's long, because there's a six and a half liter V12 under there.

That's true. There's also a V8. There's a V8 coming. Yeah, they're going to do V8, and I wouldn't be surprised of a V6 hybrid eventually for other markets, but they wanted to start with a V12 to like do it. And the general thinking is that the V8 will eventually just straight replace the V12, and so maybe there will only ever be the Lexus UX

V12 for only a little bit. But they had to do it. I mean. It's heinous from that angle. I will say from this angle, it looks kind of cool. I don't think it's hair. heinous, but you generally are into unattractive vehicles. What?

It's just, wow, that's a dig. What do you think? Generally, well, I mean, yeah, you do love the G-Cavriolet, which is famously. No, the G-Cabrile is pretty. It's great. Okay. He's insane. Okay, well, there you go. You've negated any it. It's not pretty, but all credibility. Actually a stupid person. It is iconic.

I know, I just don't think, I personally don't dislike the way it looks, and I also think it's just so special to be celebrated that, you know, when the, when the, when the, Outerous came out or however you pronounce it. No, that was that. Luris. That was not Italian.

I think when that car came out, like, if they put a, imagine if they put a V-10 in that thing. Like, Lamborghini had, like, done it, like, done, like, a core competency engine for that. Ferrari decided to do that with them put a 12-cylinder engine in an SUV. I know. It's cool. And I think it's going to be amazing to drive. And I bet it will make all the other ones feel like trucks. But I do.

I do, to an extent, despite the fact that they named it Pure Blood, I, to an extent, do find a name. little bit inappropriate that for i's created an SUV i will never were you saying saying that about portia and no i was fine i'm never every time i think about the pieros langway i'm reminded of one of my one of my all-time favorite automotive industry stories which is the following sergio marciani do you know this story of course okay sergio mark yon was the head of uh fcia fiat christler and ferrari and the whole umbrella of brands he was a really gifted executive also love sweaters always wore sweaters and um they interviewed him this was 10 years ago when would will ferrari make an SUV because everyone else was.

And he said, over my dead body, will Ferrari make an SUV? A few years later he died. And then... And here we have. Also, it is the first production Fordor Ferrari. There has never been a four-door Ferrari before this. They conceptualized in 1980s, but never built one. They said,

I think Luca de Montezza-Emily even said, if Ferrari makes a car with four-doors, we are no longer Ferrari. Well, over Luca's dead body. Meanwhile, he's on a beach somewhere. Yeah, he's doing great. Pull up the four-door Ferrari, though, that we know in love, since we're on a little tangent here. Yeah, what was it called? It's the...

Dennis. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there... Look at that. Now, I would sell Felipe for that car. If the owner of this car came to me and said, I'll do it if you give me the Italian one. I would be like, yeah, wouldn't even be Gragut.

Totally good. Yeah, worth it to kill him. Can I like be in it once? No. Oh. Okay. It's so long we could put your casket in it to take you to the cemetery. You think he'd kill him?

I think he was just going to... Okay, let's move on. On the subject of Ugly, this is our next question, and it comes from G. Oh, goodness. R. Inova. Do you think that Big Nose BMWs, the M34, XM, IX, X7, I7, et cetera, really don't look as bad, or is the new looks just being normalized as in looking at them soft and they become your favorite topic? Go for it. Yep. Go for it. We've normalized. Okay, let me, I'll,

all I'm going to say is this. And then you guys can answer. Pull up the 2005 Audi A8. Go, you can go on. I remember that car came out. You can go on a set. The grill is gigantic. Okay. So the 2005 Audi A8, I will never. forget when this car came out. Well, just hit. Actually, doesn't matter which one. It doesn't matter. Oh, six.

You gotta pull up this one, this one right here. So this car, I will never forget when this car came out with that grill. And then the A6 came out after it with that same design. People absolutely lost it. They said this is the ugliest thing they've ever seen in their entire lives. I can't believe Audi is doing this whole giant grill. It is absolutely embarrassing that Audi would do this. I mean, people lost their minds.

And now it looks kind of nice. normal. And so, that's my contribution. Well, because Lexus went maybe a little bit too far. So you're saying we've normalized the way that the G80 looks. I just think, I think we have also, by the way. You eventually get used to basically. You know, I never, I got to be honest, even as the resident BMW purists. Look at the Isleman Green. That looks good.

It never bothered me that much. Like, I just, I understand like it's supposed to harken back to, like, the original 328 from like the 1930s. and like BMW's heritage from way back when all of their cars had these gigantic grills because they needed to because the radiators were big. It's just that actually, it's just never bothered me. I don't really know why I can't really give like an answer. I haven't normalized this question.

Yeah, because we like it. Have you seen a BMW IX? The IX is so cool. No. The I see an X, I turn my head and look. Whereas when I see a Q8E-Tron, I laugh at the person driving. Was there an IX face lift? No. No, it's, it's, it's,

Pretty new to face with it. I don't like the textureing on the grill. You know that grill is self-healing. You're sitting over here complaining. The grill self-heal. Probably can hear you. It probably can hear you right now. And it's self-healing, any mean things you have to say about it.

I thought you were going to go in the direction of everybody hates how all new cars look, and then it grows on them. Which is actually your favorite topic. Which feeds into, is it normalized? And I think for a lot of BMW designs, it becomes normalized. But, like, E60M-5 is an example I always go to. That car came out, and everybody said it was. Pain. Hideous.

Hidious. Now, a BMW E60 M5. Looks so good. Looks, now same cannot be said for the seven years. The E-65 never really did sit in its stride. The 745. Look at that white one.

That is the coolest looking car. It still looks so modern. McGrane and aftermarket girls and stuff, but like, Chris Bangle was a hero. My friend Luke says Chris Bangle was a genius. He may have been. He may have been. He was from Ohio.

He was from Ohio. The E-65 and E-60, whatever the coop was, were heinous car. But the this is so beautiful. Yeah, maybe not beautiful, but really well done. But it looks modern still. It looks modern still. I love your car, but this car looks like it's 10 years after. Well, yeah, my car was one year after. Like it's what? The Z4 does look great. The, the Bengal Z4, which is yeah, that one, this one, whichever, is a great looking car. Also putting the BMW logo on the turn signal on the side. Well, not only that, this is my favorite part of this design, my friend Jeff taught me this, this is the Z4. This is the Z-4. This is the Z-Evrogo. that's the four. That's part of the design. So it says Z4 on the side. So you've got so you've got Z here and there's the four. Z4. Well, okay. So you know something you make up. It's like what people over analyze literature. Well, okay, why else would there be a giant?

He's probably right. I believe it's also in the media press literature that says that. But if people still think it's wrong. This is still the best looking Z4. Yeah. Well, the one that came out, I'm going out there and say it hasn't gotten better. I agree with you. And you know what? Actually, I don't hate the... But this was a soft... This was a bad car, so it was okay looking, but it was like... Never did an M version of it.

It was actually a bad car. It's only good looking in the right colors, but... Why some of us still want a Z4M at some point? Man, that's actually looking really nice. Which is the same car, by the way. It is. It is. This was not a bad car. It was just a softer Z4.

There's no doubt. Than the original, which maybe was... I do love how the original Z4 looks. Also, it came out of an 04. It looks so much newer than that. Okay, so the answer to this question is, truthfully, where the world... wrong people to ask none of us really hate the screen.

And it's kind of a blend of the two. I didn't hate it to begin with. And yeah, maybe you'd be normalized it looks good. But I feel I have not normalized the way the M3 looks. I just liked it from when it came out personally. Same. And I still like it now. Next question from Michael of the month.

There has been little talk about GMA. Not here. You talked to him. Greatest car. I stayed like an extra four hours. He's just going to give us. For the 99.9% of listeners that have no idea what GMA is. Gordon Murray Automotive.

Gordon Murray. I thought of the people. The T50. Anyway, what's the question? What are your thoughts about the excitement level for the T50 and T33? So go ahead and take it away, Kenan, since this is your favorite topic. I'll give you 40 seconds of monologue. Well, thinking about cars that are special, that car, everything about it is special.

I personally don't love the way it looks. The rear, I think, is kind of challenging. The T-33 looks great, the T-50. I think it's T-D-33. Nice. You wouldn't know it if it ran. Man, you over anyway. You could not tell me the difference.

I'm not convinced it exists. And a 12-cylinder engine, it revs like crazy, beautiful attention to detail, manual transmissions only. I think it's just an incredibly special car. Granted, is it from a mainstream manufacturer? No, because it's from Gordon-Murray Academy. But I think that it's just like,

the fact that that car can be made and exist is unbelievable. Don't forget, when McLaren came out with the F-1, they only built race cars, really, and then they came out with the F-1. I'm not saying that Gordon-Mory, Automotive turns into that but that is the obviously the comparison is there a T dot five you don't know what it looks like I don't know what it looks like that's correct to be totally on like I know what it is but I do not know what it looks like Can I ask you a question? Can I because I've never really understood oh okay

There it is can I really does look like the f1 Yeah, can you explain to me something? Yes Gordon Murray designed the McLaren F1 right? Yes Who is Peter Stevens? He also worked on the project and and Gordon Murray goes out of his way, not to mention Peter Stevens. It will disavow that he had anything to do with the project, although he had also a lot of lot to do with the project. So Gordon Murray headed the project, I believe, and Peter Stevens was one of the engineers on the project.

I believe that's how it worked. But Gordon Murray is mostly associated with the car as it was his project. And he was also the director of the F1 team and was brought on to in an airport. Allegedly he and Ron Dennis and a couple of McLaren executives was thought about putting this car together a road car and what would it look like and he sketched out and then Gordon Murray kind of made it happen. Gordon Murray is also just a famed designer. Can I tell you what other car Peter Stevens design that might surprise you?

Sure. Rivian R1T and R1A. I don't know. He was briefly the director of design over at Rivian. But he maybe didn't design that either. So we don't know what he designed. No. Because we don't know if he's part of the...

When is the T.3. T.5.0. like coming out, becoming available to consumers. They're delivering their customers now. Really? A couple people who have T50s. In the US? Well, it'll be short display here. Okay.

The interesting part of the question is, what do you think about the excitement level for these cars? And I'm actually surprised that he says there's been little talk about them. I feel like I can't escape talk about it. Yeah, everybody's talking about them. Oh, if you go on the supercar things, people, this is the greatest car ever made. And it's like, hon, the career GT exists.

I've actually been a little anxious about the G. whatever it's called Gordon Murray Academy because it's it's the career G T is the pinnacle and I thought that was going to be the end and now right somebody else made of a manual supercar yeah well it's not just that there were other manual supercars but the career G T was the greatest driving and now Gordon Murray Academy is here right and what's going on well I don't think that there's not exciting around the car like it's also like they did a video series from when it was announcing concept form 17 years ago no no this was like this was like in 2020

It was a down. Wow. Is that one of the downs? Yeah. And then they also did video series on every level like as, okay, we're testing, here's this meal. But also, I feel like I'm on the stream. I will say there's been a little less talk than I expected at this point, but I think

it's because not that many cars have been delivered. But people are still like very excited about these cars. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, four, I mean, they also sold all of them very quickly. And I think that for people who loved the McLaren F1, I mean, we were kids when it came out and like just went into it. Yeah.

And made a lot of money and were very successful. one worked really hard. Here's your chance to get the modern day F1. How much did it? And it will... $3 million. Right. Will it be... Now you've argued, will it be regarded the same way? I don't know. The McLaren F1 had the, you know, the Le Mans history also, you know. The McLaren F1 was this crazy combination

of things. It was also the fastest car in the world, which, by the way, I own a car that was the fastest in the world as well. I own the fastest Ford our car in the world at the time when it came out, so... Okay, that's not something. But... But also, your car was... It was like for

for a year was the fastest. And by the way, what year was it? 83. Year of mine. So you drove that thing around in 83 and you were the fastest car in the world, a lot faster than all the Toyota Starlets. This was entirely due to emissions as such, but I don't care about that. It was the fastest car in the world.

But the McLaren was the F1, the thing about the F1 that was so special was, it was the Lamont's winning, fastest car in the world, tremendously exclusive. It was always going to be really desirable. Even though it uses the Intel Design Columbus engine, they had to borrow from that minivan. This car doesn't have the pedigree, but it's going to be amazing to drive and has a fan on the back.

Curious what happens when you eventually do one, because you will. I would imagine at some stage and you'll drive it and I'll be curious what you think. Several people have told me that I know that told me they haven't. Didn't you may make a city car at one point? Yeah, Gordon Murray. You're talking about Jen. No, I'm talking about Gordon Murray's company. Didn't they, weren't they briefly into like weird things?

They made some odd cars. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, they did, because Gordon-Mary Automotive is just like... The T-27. Right, or T-25. Sure. Yeah.

So there was the T-50 is a car. All of his projects are... 33 is a supercar. The T-25 is a one-seater for driving around a monica. What's different is that... Oh, sorry, this does have the period. The T-27 did not. Wow, and it even has McLaren F-1 doors.

XP-1, baby. XP1. Yeah, Gordon-Mary Automotive doesn't do just supercars. They design other stuff, too. Boy, do they. And as we look at this thing with 11-inch steel, wheels and tires as wide as a laptop screen. We definitely agree. Well, you know, some of us feel they should probably stick to supercars.

Some of us feel they should stick to supercars. But nonetheless. Yikes on a stick. Okay. But no, I think there is excitement around the car and I think that it's just, you know, they just aren't around yet. You don't see them. I have two more questions.

They're going to be very quick. Two more questions. Number one, from 4G eclipse. Doug, why did you stop breaking down each Doug's score category? Great question. The answer is people don't have the attention span. You know, I don't know if you've noticed. 4G eclipse, but TikTok is here and people are watching videos that are 19 seconds long.

Not getting into it. I kind of miss it. So now things have gotten, we had to be a little bit quicker. Last question is, you don't agree with all this? No, no, I agree with that. I kind of liked it because you... I kind of like it because you... I have qualms about, but that's fine.

I like that because sometimes you give like your reasoning on why it had this card. Totally. Yeah, it was a minute and a half of dead screen and people didn't like that. And it's not they didn't like it. Like, it became clear to me. Like, people's attention spans are getting shorter. I got to make these videos. So what you end up with is a video is about the same length, but you have a little bit more content and a little bit less analysis. And I'm not in love

with it either, but this is the, dude, those videos, 25 minutes is so hard to get away with anymore. Videos are four seconds long now. He watches TikTok. He'll sit there on his phone and he wakes up, scroll, scroll, scroll, he's for two hours. Daily. Daily. Daily. Okay. Okay. Okay, our final question here from Math 04. What do you guys think of the value of the Bentley Bentega? 17 models are now selling in the 60s and 70s. is it a good buy or just an overpriced Q7? It is not just an overpriced Q7. It has a twin turbocharged W12,

the greatest power train ever put into an automobile. If you are looking for a luxury SUV for $70,000, consider one. Add it to your list when people ask you. No, there's no way that they're reliable. Can you mention him recommending a vent-take-it-as-a-old-what-would-it-take? There is no way they're reliable, right? W-12, although W-12 doesn't have that many problems.

I don't think the engine's not what's reliable. I think that parts cost and serviceability is just expensive. Right. I don't know many Bentley, I don't know, I don't know, the Bentley specialists in general, but, like, you can't imagine, like, people working on continental teas are also working on Ventegas.

Like, you have to take it to the dealer. It's expensive. Of course, the Ventiga was then available with the V8. Which you don't want. You want a 12. And the ones in the 60s and 70s are the early ones, which were all 12s. I've always loved the Venteg.

I've always thought it was incredibly cool. When it first came out, I wanted one desperately. And then, but it was too expensive. And so I figured I would just get one when it became used. now I'm afraid of it. But 70 grand for a W12. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty amazing.

This is 92. Oh, 70. Yep. It's so cool. It's just so appealing and so cool. It's so cool. It is so good.

It is good. And in an SUV, it would be cool. I wouldn't recommend it, though. Terrifying vehicle, and you are, you have a spaster spider as a safe search. It is only a same time. It's almost like 20 times a day. No, I wouldn't, it's not an overpriced Q7, but I don't necessarily consider it to be a good by either considering that it could blow up at any moment.

It's so cool. So cool, though. It is so cool. You should get one. No. Okay. That's all. That's all we have for today.

Anything else? Any parting words? Flipo's getting a Kian Diesel. Goodbye, everyone.