THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends! - Tesla Goes Broke, Mercedes Goes Yoke! New Outrun Movie, JDM Legends Ranked!

Episode Date: April 25, 2025

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And welcome to this car pie. I'm Kenan. I'm Philippa. And let's start with the news. Specifically, Tesla is our first news story. Take it away. Tesla reported their Q1 numbers. We know from our podcast a couple weeks ago that the sales were quite low for Tesla in Q1.

Yeah. Income and revenue, or revenue, rather, was two. Yeah. So car-related revenue went down 20% from year-over-year-over-year. And by the way, historically, Tesla sales increased quarter-over-quarter-we-quarter. Yeah. They've had good growth. Car lead revenue is down 20%.

Total revenue down something like 9% because they have other business lines, Tesla power walls, batteries, that's a lot. 20%. And one of the things we reported a couple weeks ago is that other electric cars had not seen similar to clients. Correct.

Other electric cars are doing better. There was news this week that Volkswagen and Europe beat out Tesla for the most sold EVs in Europe for a brand. EVs are still doing okay. It's just Tesla that isn't. Now, stock yesterday, we're filming this on Wednesday, when it was reported on Monday or Tuesday, stock price went down. Elon Musk said today that he's starting in May, he's going to be spending a lot less time

on Doge, the Department of Government. Efficiency. And more time on Tesla. Stock went up on that news. So he announced that he's going to be devoting more of his energy on Tesla again. And the stock rebounded as a result of that. Obviously, I mean, it's obvious to me. I think there's going to be some people in the comments who question it.

It's obvious to me, and I think most rational people, that Elon's, some of Elon's political decisions over the last six months have been a huge contributor to this. It is unbelievable to me here in California, how many people come up to me and say, I want an electric car, I want nothing to do with Tesla. Or I'm trying to get rid of my Tesla. I have several friends who got rid of Teslas, specifically, even losing money on them, specifically because they don't want any part of this. The sheer number of, I bought this car before Elon was crazy, bumper stickers we see on Tesla's now. Everywhere. Yeah. Everywhere. And I mean, there are protests outside of a lot of Tesla dealerships around the country and the world, which does impact.

Now, Tesla's line in their earnings call was basically that they expected sales to be down in Q1 because they were retooling some of their factories and production was down. The Model Y had a facelift that launched a month or two ago. They're saying that. Did you see the day supply numbers? There's a lot of data supply. So they're saying production was down. Well, you got day supply. They got day supply.

But they're new one, they expected some slowdown is what they're saying. Cyber Truck Day supply is crazy. There's also a new lower trim of the cyber truck from the $70,000 MSRP range because demand has been low. Now, I will say, whenever we publish, whenever we talk about how Tesla is slow, people say that the new model Y is coming

and it will save things. That may well be the case for a little while, but the new Model 3 came only a year ago and is already under heavy incentive. So my suspicion is that the new Model Y is not the saver that some of these people are hoping for. Agreed. I'm fundamentally Elon Musk,

political decisions and views have impact of sales. Fundamentally, it's also a pretty aged product line. The Model S came out in 2012. Had a major facelifts in 2017. So we're eight years after that. The Model X has never received a substantial thing. My view has always been that Tesla, when these cars came out, were vastly ahead of the competition.

And so redesigning them was not necessary for a long time. However, the competition has in large part caught up. You're seeing the competition have better self-driving or driver assist, if you want to call that. You're seeing the competition have better innovations in other areas that Tesla is not keeping up with. And for whatever reason, Tesla has granted a huge portion of the competition, the ability to access its chargers, which was, in my opinion, its last remaining significant piece

of competitive advantage that you could supercharge. You could charge these Teslas at the charging stations. It was basically captive of the Tesla's, that's gone. To some extent, a lot of their revenue, or a fair amount of revenue, also came from cap trade type programs where they needed to offset other manufacturers of emissions. Other manufacturers now also have VVs. They can use some of that. It's changed their business and the market has changed a lot since 2020.

Tesla is definitely no longer the silver bullet that it once was. The stock is still quite valuable. We always wondered if it could sustain, if Tesla, the car company, could sustain at its pace. And the thought I always had was kind of probably not considering that the cars are simply, they couldn't innovate at the level that they had been innovating. Like five years ago, it was an electric sedan. Two years ago, or 12, 100 years ago was an electric sand. Two years ago, it was a yoke.

Right. Not quite the groundbreaking innovation that it was in 2012 and 2015 when the X amount. And now, the market is still counting a lot. By the way, the Tesla market cap is 20 times Ford's market cap. Yeah. The market is counting a lot on autonomous driving, on Elon Musk's promises around taxis and being able to rent out your Model 3 and a new planned submodel 3, more affordable EV, which, by the way, Tesla announced as part of their own company,

was delayed, the market clearly still sees value. The market still sees value. Is that fair? I don't know. I think if you've been watching the car business, you're definitely skeptical of that, but you probably were in 2014. And you are probably glad, as the reason the stock price is up today, that Elon Musk is going to devote more attention to it.

Okay. Next news story, please. We'll see how that develops. Okay, we have some folks. Yes. The Outrun movie. Yeah. Has there's been some talks that they're going to make a movie out of Outrun, which was a famous video game.

Did you guys ever play the Outrun video game? Of course. You did? You never did? At an arcade. I didn't play many video games. It was only an arcade game. Maybe you could buy it at your house, but I only ever played it at arcades.

Like I remember going to the movie theater specifically to play Outrun. And later Outruns had every Ferrari. You especially would be interested in it. My movie theater had the 355 challenge arcade game. Oh, damn. So I just drove 355. And those sounds like. Best sound of...

I wonder to what extent that influenced your future existence. It didn't. I wasn't into cars at all. And then I rode in a 355 and then I played it more than. I remember, I only played it. I never, I'm too young for Outrun

the original, but Outrun 2 was in my movie theater and I, and I remember one time we figured out there was this hack where it gave you the choice between five different Ferraris, but if you pressed like the second view, like camera view button, because like when you were driving you'd switch views. But if you press that button while you were selecting a car, you could choose between

five other Ferrari. Whoa. It was like this is before the internet. So, you know, this stuff didn't like spread. You had to just know. Someone passed you a note. So, but originally, the original Outrun game, they were driving a convertible testerosal, which was kind of ironic because that was like the one thing for I didn't make.

And now they're talking about a movie, Michael Bay. Sidney Sweeney is signed on just as a producer, not as an actor. Or maybe as an actor, too. She is a big car enthusiast, by the way. She's a big car enthusiast, and so it makes sense that she's attached to this. My question is, how do you make a movie out of Outrun? If you haven't played, for those I haven't played it. Yeah. As I recall, you would get in the car, the gate, you'd drive on a fairly straight road with simulated curves, and then the race would end.

There was no plot other than that. There was no story. Correct. But they do a good job of this. This guy's a genius. Michael Bay is good at making a lot of action out of no story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm excited, and I hope they have a Testorosa convert. They have so. I also hope that Ferrari allows them to have a Stroming conversion. So anyway, if this happens, it'll be cool because it was a part of our, an interesting part of our childhood. However, we'll still don't quite understand the process.

Anyway, as long as the car chase scenes are good. And they will. They will. I mean, we put up with Fast and the Furious 12 where they shift into 13th gear like they're driving a 18 wheeler. Yes, the compilations of gear shifting are from the longest runway known to man. All right. Move on to the next one. Oh, yes.

The new Lexus E.S. The new Lexus ES. For those of you who don't know, the Lexus ES has been announced. Now, the Lexus ES for the first 20 years of its life was based on the Toyota Camry. In the last couple of generations of the ES, it was based instead on the Toyota Avalon. The Avalon is now canceled. You don't know about this? I mean, I do, but the Avalon is the same platform.

No, but that's insane to say. The ES was a rebadged Camry with different body and all that. And then it became a rebadged Avalon, and that's what it was. Sure. The most recent one is now a Toyota Crown. They're obviously basing it on the Toyota Crown. I agree with you, but they're pressfully said it's based, or like the news articles from when the Shanghai Auto Show

where it was released said it's based on the camera. I agree it's based on the Crown. They say that this is not Crown Base, but it's got a little hyper. Okay, regardless, to me, though, the most interesting thing about this, have you seen the interior? Single screen. Interior. Take a look.

This is the interior. Does this remind you of any car's interior? Yeah, the Ionic 5. including the Lexus font. This is a Tesla Model 3, Model Y interior. If you covered up the deep, you would think that you're on a Tesla interior. The Lexus RZ, famously a great small easy. What are you getting paid by the trap?

Has a steer-by-wire system. They're clearly looking at their competition and they copy them. The Lexus RZ, it is interesting to me. A little yolk. Tesla has had a massive influence on the auto industry. Some automakers have gone at this their own way. Some automakers have gone at this to copy. in Tesla. The RZ has a yoke.

Yep. The new ES, which was, the yoke was coming out in the RZ as it was a huge deal in the cyber truck and the other cars. The ES, obviously, this is a massive, massive takeoff on the success. I mean, this really, I know a lot of car interiors sort of look like this now, but this really looks like a Tesla interior. Here's what I don't quite get. The steering wheel.

Who is Lexus going after? Because traditionally, the Lexus ES buyer has been older. I think they're watching Market Cherry. evaporate to Tesla and they're thinking, we want to get some of that. And so they're trying to get some of that. But like, who that wants Alexis goes and, like, how are they attracting that audience? I don't know that the ES in particular has an enormously devoted following anymore anyway. A lot of those people have switched to crossovers and SUVs.

So maybe they're just trying something like they did with the crown. I don't, unfortunately, I actually think the current ES looks good. Yeah, but it's like that. Questionably. Soft front wheel drive, expensive sedans don't have an enough. enormous take rate anymore in today's world. This is a hybrid. It's an interesting car.

I mean, we're going to see them around, not like they used to. A lot of these buyers have switched to crossovers. But to me, the interesting part of this story is just how much Lexus clearly sees the Tesla influence and wants to be part of that in some direction. By the way, just a circle back. It is using a platform that is shared by the Camry, the Crown, the Highlander, the Venza, the X, the X, the NX, R-Xry. TX. Go back to the exterior. Certainly.

Yes. I agree with you. Okay, what is our next news story today? Ah. Cadillac V. Kenman's dream. He wants a CT5 V. Oh, the worst way.

Love the Black Wing. You also obviously want an optic V and the lyric V. No. The lyric V was announced a while a month or two ago. The lyric is, of course, their mid-sized electric SUV. Of course. I actually like the lyric. It looks great.

I love the line. I think it's good. They're all airport. Oh, yeah. They're all in a car. Yeah, they're black. Yeah. But they sold them, and that's what matters.

The lyric we will have 615 horsepower, 3.3 seconds zero to 60, which is strong. The optic V, optic is their small electric crossover. Is that on sale? Yes. No. Probably. I don't. That can't be true.

Every so often, as someone who pays an enormous amount of attention to the auto industry, every so often I'm driving down the road and I see a car and I've got no idea what it is. And that hasn't happened to me since I was like, 10 years old. The optic is on dealer lots. But the reason that that happens is because these automakers have branched into some really weird things. And some of these cars have very low volumes.

Yep. Like the ADX. Pull up a picture of the Cadillac Optic. By the way, that's Optic with a cue. Yep. I'm trying to see if there's any reviews. There were first drives a month ago. Oh, my God.

And I haven't reviewed it. That's part of our taught cars segment today. Cadillacs is an aqua. So it's based on, yeah, it's based on the Equinox. It looks like an equinox. Or the Blazory V or something? Equinox. I got to tell you.

Same biiform. I don't know anything about this car, but interesting. The V was announced today, though, and we know nothing except for the fact that more will be announced this summer. I do find it interesting. We wait with bated breath. Also, by the way, we've got this graphic. We've got that graphic.

Fantastic. We really want to show off the car here. Can we talk about catalogs SUV? Because suddenly they have four electric SUVs. Yeah. The optic, the lyric, the vistic, and the escalate. So optic and lyric and vistic all end in the letter Q. So then there's the escalade.

It doesn't have a cue in it. So they called it the escalade IQ. Or is it just Q? I. U. Therefore, it has a cue in it. I mean, it's better than escalate queue. I see.

Escalic. Escalic. Escalate. I see escalate IQs all the time. All the time. I have never seen a Vistik or an optic. I'm not sure that VISTIC is out, but first drives have happened. Do you agree with me that in terms of Cadillac electric SUVs, it doesn't matter really whether

it's out or not in terms of whether we see them? In Southern California, yes. It does not matter. I think our, it's like playing the lottery. I think our chances of seeing one on the road is about the same, whether it's on sale or not. Can you pull up the Cadillac Vistick? Because by the way, the Cadillac XT6 died a couple weeks ago.

You know, that is so sad. I had a day a couple days ago where I saw six XT6 single day. Banner Day. That is a nice-looking car. What is this thing? It's an XT6 replacement. Why does this not find its way into the public domain?

I don't know. I don't know, but I'm into it. It's a good-looking SUV. There will probably be a Visc V. This is a three-row. So this is an X-T-6 replacement, but it's EV only, and there's no gas mid-sized Cadillac SUV. Correct.

Yikes. Yeah. Well, except for the escalade, which might be mid-sized by Cadillac standards. Oh. Figure of the standards of the 70s. What does this have? Click on this car and driver article. What does this thing have?

This one here. What does this thing have in it? No, I don't want to see the picture. I want to know what's going on. How much power we got? Go down. Go down. see the power.

I get all my information. 300 miles a chart. Oh, it costs $99,000. Love it. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, go. But what the interesting thing here is that...

6.50 dollars power. 3.7 seconds to 6. The interesting thing here is that they are clearly using their V brand in a aggressive way. And they can because they don't need to put a new engine in it. They just, yeah, it's to an amp up the motors. And that's smart of them. Up. Nice.

Unfortunately, it makes the V more like the V sport situation. I don't know. If you're doing zero to... 16 and 3-3. That's pretty... That's pretty... That's pretty quick. I think they hope to get Kennan with a CT5V Blackwing, and they get Kennan again with a Vistik V. Because definitely, the things I love about the CT5V blackwing, it's supercharged V8, it's mainly transmission to real drive. I definitely won't love about this car. It's a very similar machine. It is interesting. They've really committed hard to these EVs. The escalade remains an escalade with

the V8 and all the gas power engine or another because they can't leave that behind. They've gone all that on it. It'll be interesting to see what happens, though, to these other ones. Obviously, the $98,000 starting price must be sort of like an entry-level launch edition thing. But, yeah. Can I ask you a question? Would it be more appealing to you if you knew, if like we marketed EVs as, hey, this car has two motors or four motors? No, because I won't an engine. But it has four engines, ish.

They're motors. They're motors. No. People use those interchangibly. Naturally aspirated quad-engined. I mean, yeah. What's an R1S quad? engine?

Naturally aspirate quad engine. The marketing I'm not fooled. Remember when Hummer tried to claim they had 15,000 pounds feet of torque? All right, go on to the next year. This episode is brought to you by Ava. Cars and good credit score go hand in hand.

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And that's it. Yep. Is also going to be making a mid-sized truck. So the mid-sized truck has made a comeback. You know, 10 years ago, the Chevy Colorado died, and the Ford Ranger died. And it was kind of generally thought that the mid-sized truck was sort of coming to an end. And the Honda Ridgeline saved us all. The Ridgeline showed up and was a joke.

It was, you know, car based. And it had an audience, but not like the, the giant volume that up. And so, but then the Colorado returned and the Ranger return, and they're actually selling pretty good numbers. Then Ford brings in a Maverick. Suddenly, the smaller mid-sized pickup, the Hyundai Santa Cruz, is like alive again.

Tim Kineskas is back now as the CEO of the whole thing, right? He's not the permanent CEO. They're hiring CEO. He's a shortlisted for the formal CEO, apparently. And he's saying, we're doing a mid-size RAM. Now, there was a mid-size RAM, the Dodge Dakota, designed by the same man who designed the Lamborghini Diablo. This is true.

Anyway, that was a great truck, and it lasted for a long time, but went away maybe 10 years ago. So it'd be interesting to see Ram come back into this space, which seems like a pretty reasonable. They announced that they were going to do this a couple of, or it leaked they were going to do this a few months ago, but they've confirmed it recently.

They have these trucks for other markets. The reason the Ranger came back to the U.S. is that they've made it, Ford made a Ranger for pretty much every other market. Chrysler doesn't, though. No, except for the small Fiat. They have a fiat in Latin America, but it's a front-wheel drive car. It's not what we're talking about.

We're talking about a mid-sized truck. That's true. Ram does not. We still do a business team develop. However, those trucks are relatively popular. They are relatively popular globally. I will say the Chevy Colorado sold here is unrelated to the global Chevy mid-size pickup, GM mid-sized pickup truck.

But the market is here. Is it just me of those rear tires incredibly narrow? Well, they want you to understeer. Just like he does. They'll be even narrower in the small one. Nice. I'm excited to see how this goes. Obviously, I like ram styling.

I'm curious, you know, how it translates to a smaller truck. I mean, have you seen the Dakota? Because, well. Yeah. No, they looked good. The man did the deep. Tom Gale. I did the first job.

He also did the Dodge Viper. He did the Diablo and he did the 98 Dodge Dakota. And damn it, they both looked good. They did. They still do. I will also say one other piece of mid-sized pickup news just to slide it in there. The frontier, Nissan Frontier,

still exists. They've said that it will likely be a hybrid for the next generation. The next generation? They're already talking about the next gen? Well, there hasn't been a new gen in a minute. Kenan's over the Nissan frontier. That truck last, new gen in a minute. It came out like four years ago. It wasn't new. The previous one went for 15 years. Yeah, that's true.

They are talking about maybe the next refresh. The news was vague. Okay. Give us our next news story, please. Oh, my God. This is embarrassing. So this is the Porsche Spirit 70. Now, last week, we talked about the Mercedes stronger than the 80s

G-Lagin. And not to be outdone, Porsche decided they were going to come out with something from the decade prior. They wanted, so this is the, this is based on the 9-11 career GTS Cabralet T hybrid, which, boy, that just rolls off this. Oh, God.

And it's got serious power, 532 horsepower, 4 and 49 foot pounds of torque. But critically, they wanted to make it aesthetically appeal to the cars from the 70s. They wanted to make it like that. It's painted all of Nero is the name of the color, which is this greenish color and has gold wheels. And it's a limited edition car they're going to make.

The interior of it, which isn't shown here, has the pasha fabric, like the, and it's green and gold. Yep. It's very... Do you think that they took the press photo in the shadows in order to try to hide it a little? I think... Do you think that the press photo was intentionally

kind of trying to disguise the fact that this car exists? I... Look at the 9. 11 graphic on the hood. This is going to be such a hit with the not the Porsche people. Oh, it is. I just, this is exactly the kind of thing.

I love the cars so much, but you know they're going crazy on run list right now, talking about how they're going to deviate the color of their 9-11 graphic to be purplish black instead of blackish purple. I started writing down the list of stuff that they wrote, they supplied the like the changes they made and I got so bored. I just stopped. Like,

You want to know what really, so they're going to build 1,500 of these worldwide, they say, and it's going to have the price $242,250. That's $62,000 more than the career of GTS. It's also $20,000 more in the base price of the GT3. Wow. Something to think about. But it's a limited car. I will say, I will say, I do find it funny that Porsche's limited are starting to become pretty 1,500,

a small number. The Dakar, which everybody freaked out about, was one of 2,000, and then they left the door open for potentially building. more later in other versions. Right. The F40 was not a limited production car in the end. It was supposed to be and then wasn't. They built 1,300.

That was a limit. And same with CareerG-T. Exactly. That was like a big production run at the time. These days. Yeah. And there's charging 240 grand. You have good news.

You can get it without the graphics. I have a question. At what point does Porsche start to not be able to do this anymore? Like, we've seen Ferrari kind of hit the limits with the SF 90, right? Yeah. You've seen SF 90 prices? That's not because they made a special. special edition of a model.

No, but my point is, like, how long can they get away with, like, changing a car primarily cosmetically, calling it limited and charging vastly more money and people will fall all over themselves to pay for it? Like, how long will that continue? Do you remember how much money Ferrari makes from their special projects or whatever they're called the special order? Yeah, but they don't make a one of, I mean, this, they don't do this. You probably get a savings from doing it yourself.

Paint a sample plus whatever it's called to get the color that only exists for this. You get my point. At some point, Porsche people are going to look at this and say, you know what? I don't know. It's too expensive. It's too weird. It's not special enough. I got it.

But right now. Somebody else will say, oh, sure, I'll buy it. Yeah, that's. But right now, they're still frothing at the mouth to get deviated stitching on everything. So it still plays into Porsche's hand here. But I agree. For $242,000, I can think of a lot of other cars. I'd rather have than this one.

Yeah. But you can get a 993 twin turbo. That's a real car. That's a real car. Yeah. sure guy. Okay, move on to our next new straight. Oh, yeah. Yes, so Mercedes-Benz has announced that they're going to be switching to a steer-by-wire system. Now, there are a number of manufacturers who already do this, but it's notably Tesla, of course, but Lexus does too. Mercedes-based they have spent like almost a million miles or something doing the testing to make sure this is safe. Because when Mercedes-Benz implement something, it must be perfect in their view. And so finally, there will be no physical connection between the steering wheel and the front wheels of the car. This will be especially beneficial for cars, though, that have re-roll steering. As you go faster, they're going to adjust the weights. Just like the Tesla's do.

And they're going to introduce this yoke steering wheel. And they're introducing a yoke. And this is going to come in 2026. So this is going to be on the EQS, and then they said also the S-classes, likely what's going to end up. But it's just, it's a big deal that Mercedes believes in the technology and has developed it to the point where they can do this.

You don't think this is a big deal? Flip doesn't understand steering. You don't understand steering. Well, Lexus RZ and the Cybertruck have it, and then a couple of infinities, but you told me there's still a secondary. The RZ and the subject are the only ones I can think of that don't have a secondary backup. And I think the RZ doesn't.

I'm not 100% sure. The reason that I'm not surprised by this is that once a manufacturer develops it to the point where they feel comfortable and other manufacturers can do a million miles of testing, it's natural that they would want to do this. It frees up a ton of interior design. It frees up a ton of space for how they can actually fit engines and equipment in their cars. It is massively more space efficient to have it be drive by wire. So once somebody does it and everybody else kind of figure out, oh, wait, we can do this safely too. It was inevitable, the same way that this is just a... It wasn't particularly well-received the yoke.

I mean, people thought it was cool, but it was sort of a novelty from a man. The yoke feels like a novelty, but steer-by-wire seems like an... Wait, no. Hey, the EQS has been so well-received. Why not throw a yoke in it? I fully agree that the yoke is a novelty, but the steer-by-wire was inevitable, in my mind. I agree. I agree.

And to be clear, there are redundancy systems, just no physical steering column. It is an interesting point, though, that, hey, another manufacturer is adopting this. It was in some one-z-to-z-to-z-chus cars. Clearly, if Mercedes-Benz is starting to put it into their cars, this is going to trickle down to a lot of different stuff. And before too long, this is going to be all cars. And then everybody's going to complain about how it breaks. It's one more thing to break. That's the comment.

I'm already up. Call it right now. One more thing to break. unsafe, blah, blah, blah. Unsaf, yeah. Robbed as a steering feel. Robbed us a steering feel. Okay.

Next up, we have to move on to our talk cars segment. Our talk cars segment is brought to you by Cars and Bids merch. Cars and Bids has new merch and we stole some of the designs from the European Highway sign symbol. Oh wow, we got Kennan's car on both of these things. It's a great cut from our producer. Go to Cars and Bids.com, find the merch tab.

I don't know where it is. You got to find it. Or merch.catsandbids.com. This is the level of advertising we do. Okay, I want to show you something that blew me away. I saw it this week. Go to the next slide. This is a BMW of some variety, okay? No one knows what.

But here's the interesting thing. It's a new X-1. You see that back wheel? Yeah. Ugly, right? But the front wheel is missing that cover, and damn if that doesn't look good. Does it?

Yes! That is a nice looking wheel. That looks like the wheel that would have been in Kennan's car's arrow, like a nice simple five-spoke that every manufacturer has gone away from because they put these covers on their wheels for Arrow now, and it has screwed up the look of every wheel.

But if you take off the arrow cover, you've got to admit, you're sitting here looking at this thinking, you know, I could see this on D4. This is another P-A-36 for sure. I was looking at, it has kind of a dish to it, doesn't it? BMW still makes an attractive wheel. It's just hidden by an unattractive wheel cover. Okay, a couple of things.

Okay, first of all, Prius did it first. A lot of cars do it. And you know what I've basically learned? Every car that has an arrow-style wheel cover, if you take off the arrow-style wheel cover, it looks better. I don't think that looks, it looks wrong for the car. It's a better wheel, but it looks wrong for the car. He's saying, forget the car. Yeah, I'm not talking.

Invision whatever this is. Envision that wheel on a Z3. That's a nice looking five-spoke. That looks kind of like the Z3M wheel, honestly. Like a little... Yeah, it's got that kind of... Yeah, it's kind of interesting. This is a nice looking wheel.

Can I ask a question? Are we going to be back despite everybody having... Okay, people had hubcaps. Yeah. And then they had alloys. And suddenly you no longer saw hubcaps discarded on every corner in Philadelphia. To be clear, there was actually... You're missing.

Kenan and I had mag wheels. There was a period in there. That's right. If you drive around a city or Europe in the 90s, you would see Hubcat everywhere. Are we going to be back to that world? These seem to be held on better. For example, remember when I had the Mybok GLS? Of course.

And we took off the Mybok wheel cover and then couldn't get it back on because the plastic tabs had... And then I fixed it because I can do things. Yeah. You know, that was helpful. By the way, I need your help with a mechanical thing. What do you need me to do? I have to get the spare tire out of my sequoia before. I drive it across country.

Uh-huh. So I think we should do that together. I'm so sorry. Last time you drove across the country, you had a tire rupture, you needed the spare tire. Right. So now I want to get the spare tire

and put it in the trunk. Oh, I think you might just like leave it. No. He's assuming it's going to happen again. I'm afraid it will happen again. Because if it had happened to me in a rainstorm or in the middle of the night, it would have been a lot harder to get it out roadside.

I might as well just take it out preemptively. Smart. Thank you. So you don't think we'll see Hubcap. My point is simply that BMW makes an attractive wheel. They just hide it from the public. You know what do you think? You know what?

I bet if you peeled off a few layers of bodywork underneath. There's an E39 and 5. What in this case is E3. If you're listening to this, you're probably the type of person who actually enjoys researching cars, comparing trims, decoding spec sheets, maybe even watching my Doug reviews of new cars. So this one's for you. Buying a brand new car right off the lot can be very exciting. But negotiating the deal isn't exactly the fun part.

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Just head to CarEdge.com slash Cars and Bids. Again, that's CarEge.com slash Cars and Bids. And a huge thanks to Car Edge for sponsoring this episode and for making it way harder for dealerships to pull a fast one. Okay, Carrera GT. I want to talk about CareerGT. Yeah, famously of Formula One derived. Formula One had nothing to do with that sport.

It was never used in an F1 car, nor was it used in a Lamont car. It was developed for them both. In the Phoenix F1 race? No. No, it was. That was the footwork, Aeros car. But Porsche did make the motor. Yeah, and it was so bad that they were like, you know what,

don't make us, and please, footwork says, please, Porsche, renowned performance manufacturer, stop making, stop doing it. Go back to playing with the knife. The only reason that Porsche doesn't advertise that the Career GT's motor was derived from Formula One is because they made it preemptively assuming they'd be

rehired for the next season, and they weren't. But okay, I want to tell you about the Career GT, which has a Formula One derived V-10. It does not. I added up my miles, because it hit me, I was just kind of curious how much I'm driving it. Listen to this. since I bought my Carreira GT

I've driven my 4GT 1,900 miles a year That was two years Oh, per year, okay. I've driven my career, I've driven my Kuntash 1400 miles a year. Which is really impressive.

I've driven the G Cabrero 2,100 miles a year and I've driven the Carrera GT 2300 miles a year. I have driven the career GT most since I bought it of any of my cars and if you add in my Sequoia and you remove the cross-country trip,

which I admit is, that's asking a lot because that is me driving the car. But if you remove that cross-country trip, I've even driven the career G2 more of the Sequoia. Wow. Well, that's true because between cross-country trips, it sits in your house. I drove it today because it hit me like, this thing hasn't driven probably the month. And somebody should drive it. Wow.

I drove driven the career G-T more than, and I still have the Mercedes station. My wife only drives that. I basically never drive that anymore. I have driven the courage U.S. the most of any of my cars. That is amazing. You're the only career GT owner who can say that. I have put 5,100.

miles on the career GT since I bought it in February of 23. Wow. Two years ago. You bought it with 10,000 miles-ish. 98, yeah, 99. So over the course of 18 years, yeah, somebody added 9,000 miles. Yeah. 10,000 miles.

With the course of two years, you've added five. I mean, that's the funny thing about it. Like I had, I had, remember I met with the original owner or the second owner, but he had it for like seven years, the guy in, and we had lunch together. We talked about our experience of car. He had the car for seven years, but in that time, he only had 2,000 miles to it. I beat that in a year. Proud of you.

I mean, that's proud of you. It's just so addictive. It's so addictive. It's a testament to a couple of things. One, I think it's a testament to the servicing you've done to refresh that car and make it as modern and safe, honestly, as possible. Because the previous owner couldn't do that. The previous owner of both the Krogerty and the Kuntosh, I think we're not up to the cars. Yeah, I agree with that.

I also think that it is testament to how good the cars that you would just rather grab the keys, despite its value, which weighs on your mind when you use it. It's so good the experience just rivals the others. and I think that it's also just I'm just glad that you're enjoying it. I know that that mileage probably has cost you probably $100,000 in value of the car. I mean, I don't know. I don't know.

But you've done all these upgrades, so maybe not. The thing that I learned, though, with the Ford GT is that, like, I've driven the Ford GT since I bought it 12,500 miles in the Ford GT. That is nuts. If that car had 12,500 miles on it, would be considered a high mileage 4GT. I've driven in 12,500 more miles.

It's now got 43,800 miles. It's sitting behind me. I love that. That, what I learned, though, from that experience was, people parked those cars and save them. I've made a ton of money in that car. I'm probably in that car for 260, and I think it's worth 360.

And so the thing that I learned was, obviously, if I had parked it, it would be worth more. But it's not like, as Manny Kochman says, our hero, you don't go broke making a profit. Like, I could have made more money, but I made money. Like, you know what I'm not, like, responded about this. And I assume the same thing will happen with the career DGTI. Wouldn't you rather just have the experience anyway?

It's so good. Yeah. It's also a testament to how driveable the car. I think that's the real thing. It is attest to the usability of the car. The car is actually quite. Well, 9-6 door models, you know, they work. And the thing that the thing about the Carraritia also that makes it so usable, it just blends in everywhere.

So I feel pretty comfortable taking that car to places that you shouldn't take a car that's worth that much money. I got pictures of it at the Sprouts. I got pictures, you know. Nobody, like, notices. Nobody knows. My dad had a Carrera is usually the comment you get. No, I had a boomer come up to me when I was washing it the other day in front of my house, into cars, has cars, works on Jags and says, so was that a Gt2?

I'm like, going to move on. I mean, that is the party piece of that car, especially in silver, to be clear. Like, I think that really helps. If it were red, it would be, or yellow. And in Southern California, where you do see a lot of Porsches. A lot of Porsche's, yeah. A lot of Porsches. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, congratulations. I keep driving the thing. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I, thank you. I appreciate that. And I'm honestly surprised. I knew I was driving it a lot. I didn't realize I was driving it more than any of the other vehicles. Okay, the next thing I want to talk about is the Leno's law situation. This is the California Senate bill that is intending to change the exemption for smog. Right now, the smog exemption is a cutoff at 1775. They're changing to make it roll 35 years.

So any car that's over 35 years will be smog exempt, and each year that passes another year becomes exempt, which is how it is in most states. And it's starting at the base of 1990, correct? I think that jumps. Well, yeah, because that's 35 years. So it passed the Senate Transportation Committee already. Pass this in Transportation Committee. Next, it goes to appropriations, then the full Senate, then the governor.

Who knows if it's going to pass? I don't really know. But I will say it passed the – there was a big news story about how it passed the Transportation Committee. And the reason I bring this up, because we've already talked about this, is there was a quote in the news articles about it passing from the American Long Association senior director. His name is Will Barrett. And he said – and he said as a quote, this is a real jailbreak for our air quality problems

in California. and he basically said, this is going to make air quality worse. And I think this is intellectual dishonesty and it's absolute worst. This is the kind of stuff that I just can't stand. It's the same deal with the tariffs. Oh, tariffs aren't a tax. They raise the prices and then the companies can choose whether they want to raise the prices or not. But they might not pass that raise along to the consumer.

This is BS. This will have absolutely no effect on air quality in California. I was thinking about the other day, walking through my neighborhood. do you have any idea how many old cars are registered out of state and just sit in my neighborhood? Exactly. Everyone is already operating all of these cars. This has stopped nobody from doing anything. Nope.

All it is done is made Montana LLC is really popular. In every other state, Arizona and your brother in Oregon and South Dakota and all this stuff. And it is so intellectually dishonest to be like, now our air quality is going to be worse. That is completely factually inaccurate. The only thing that will change is that some of us will start registering these. cars in California and California will actually make some money from it. Thank you. As opposed to right now where I invite this fellow Will Barrett of the American Lung Association come to a cars and coffee with me. It has 50 states will be represented in the

parking lot of a cars and coffee. There are cars that are cars and coffees that are coming from New Hampshire. I mean it's unbelievable. It's laughable. I do think there's so many of these out-of-state cars that enforcement has become simply too difficult. The state, the highway patrol does not have the manpower to start randomly pulling over cars to figure out if this car is actually registered out of state and the person lives there or if they don't or whatever, it's just too onerous. And even so, the argument, and I think it's true, it's the use case of these cars is so minute. People are driving them to cars and coffee and that's pretty much it. Like, you're not, you don't want to go rock around the 71 Pantera as a day. No. And that, and that is

proof of the stupidity of this statement. Is that like, people are, they're using the cars little enough that the law is not being enforced with regards to their registration locality. And so it's a moot point anyway. The cars aren't registered in California. They're still being used a little bit, but not enough to trigger enforcement. It's just so intellectually dishonest

to make this claim that it's going to cause air quality problems in California. It absolutely will change nothing. Except that California will make a little bit more money, which California seems to like. Yep. Okay. Kenan, tell us about your.

M5 servicing. Ah, yes. So the M5 got its first service of the year. Now, I said at the very beginning of the year, that one of my resolutions was that I was not going to spend more than $2,500 this year on maintenance loan, which is a pretty normal cost for a high performance car. Can I stop you real quick and give a little backstory to this service? Kenan tells us, you agree with everything I'm going to say.

I think so. He says, this service got to do an oil change. And then also, there's all this stuff that had not been performed, that was supposed to be performed that I'm going to get for free because they were supposed to do it the first time. So we thought the service would be the cost of an oil. change. $150, $180.

Call it $200. It's a good shop, lots of oil. Yeah. It's a very good shop. There were some issues with the service that was performed before. There were some gaskets that weren't seated correctly, so the car was leaking a little bit of oil. And Ryan, being a man of his word at E-39 source, wanted to make it right and had his

tech redo some of the seals. Now, what had to be done was dismantling the front of the engine, basically. Taking the timing covers off, the valve cover caskets were leaking, the timing covers were leaking. It's a lot of labor to do that. But Ryan stood behind it and wanted to make it right, and he did. However, while we were there, although I replaced everything related to the timing system, we ran into a couple of little issues.

Yeah. One was that we removed the thermostat and thermostat, removed the thermostat housing to gain more easy access to this stuff. Well, that disturbed the seal. So we wanted to put it back on the seal and it ended up being destroyed. So we had to replace the thermostat. Which I recognize like that just how it is. So I split the cost of labor with. I agree to split the cost of labor and parts with Ryan on that.

Then there were, we put everything back together. all of a sudden had a misfire. And the tech came in and said to Ryan, he said, does, uh, does kind of this car ever have a misfires? And I was like, Kennan's car? No. Absolutely not. And so they've turned out what it was.

There's a vacuum leak. There's this little elbow that goes into the plenum. That was broken. That was pretty cheap. Replace that. We also noticed that the studs that hold in the velocity stacks, a couple of them were a little loose and like the, the velocity stacks. The velocity stacks, yes.

My fear was that one, like a bolt could come undone. And theory, it's not a non-zero thing. It could get sucked. into one of the velocity stacks. Let's go directly into the intake and... Be fair to Kenan, he's going to say the total bill in a minute. It was cheap when you consider

the elbow to the plenum, the velocity stacks, and the housing for the thermosite. Those are a lot of long words. Yeah, he thinks that all of these are made up, but Doug doesn't know anything about mechanics. That could be made up. That is not.

It is absolutely not. Someone tell him he's wrong. He knows nothing about steering in velocity stacks. These are all, all, things. These are all things. These are all accurate statements.

So it ended up being, and I did an oil change, and a blackstone analysis as well. Blackson analysis as well. When does that come back, I'm curious. I'll follow up with you. I'm sure it'll be fine. But I just do it to have a trend. I like to see how things are wearing. And anyway, it ended up being $837 for the first.

But that does not include probably three full days of labor to fix the rest. It did take some time. To his credit, the rest had been promised before. I don't, I don't, I don't follow you for the rest. I think the rest. No, no. Now, I will say, you're over budget already. I am not over budget.

He's not over budget. But if you do the calculation. Q1 or a third of the way through that, I'll give him a third of the way through the year. He's on budget. No, no, but it's $2,500, we're not quite a third of the year. And he's over $800. We're not quite a third of the year. I mean, come on.

It's amazing, like, next week. Dude, if Will Barrett from the American Lung Association is going to be intellectually dishonest, then I'm going to be intellectually dishonest. Don't stoop to Will Barrett's level. Will Barrett. We're sure you're a nice guy, and I do support the American Lung Association. You're wrong in this particular assertion, but, you know, I understand your heart's in my place. But you're wrong to be wrong.

I, by your calculation, I'm $37 over budget. And maybe not even because because we're not quite a third of the year, that 30, it's like $12 over budget, actually. That's over budget over budget. That's over budget. We're rather than a business. Tell you something, when we're $12 over budget, you think our investors don't know. They get on it cost at 2 a.m. Well, based on your, the number of Hershey Kisses you order, we are $1.12 over budget.

I make Felipe do wind sprints. I'm pleased with me. I think that I'm headed in the right direction. I think things are fine. And the car is, and Ryan also said there's nothing else to do on the car. You did an inspection. Couldn't find anything.

I'm very happy. To be fair, this is the first service in six months. Yeah, I mean, I have not touched the car. That's not bad. Yeah. So, well, I think it's on, I think we're... Fortin T hasn't been serviced in two years. Well, you should maybe consider that.

Yeah, doesn't need like rear axle hubs? Tire. We call those tire. They do go on the rear axle hub, but they're really far out. The axle nuts that are on there, I think, need to be replaced. There's someone who's a recall on them and you haven't done them. Every recall that's ever happened on that car has been done. I think there's an open one.

I mean, there are some issues. Well, we'll just admit. There are some issues. Your gate, you're, you're, you're, uh, fuel gauge doesn't work. It's just upside down. It's like a monkey hanging from a tree. You turn on the left blinker and just, this is. That's OE.

Every four GERG-Benzuela. But the last time I drove with the right blinker to the same thing. No, they both do it. Oh, it's a past, The blinker makes, in the 4GT, the 054GT is very weird, but when you turn on the blinker, when it blinks, it doesn't just click, although it does click. It also goes, ooh, but it doesn't seem intentional. Yeah, it's related to whatever the mechanism. When you have, I will say, when you have the radio on, you don't hear it all. I hadn't remembered that happened. I wanted to hear the sound of that engine. That's a true enthusiast. He doesn't even know about plentum elbows. Yeah, yeah. Or steering. His knowledge is minimal. His knowledge is minimal. Not only does, he doesn't know about anything from the, the intricacy of plentum elbows. him elbows to the simplicity of steering. He doesn't have any.

He's probably, him and Will Barrett probably have the same car gnarling. Boy, he knows every trim of Fiat multiple of existence. As everybody should. Okay, I want to talk market report very quickly because we have to move on to questions, which were excellent this week. The market report is brought to you by cars and bids merch. You can't...

Murch.orghumid.com. You can access it at merch. com. And you can support the Italian Autostrara. I want to talk about, one result from last week that really stood out to me, and then we can move on to yours, which were better. The Xtera. Can you go to Carsandbids.com?

Not merch.carsandbids.com, although you should also go there to buy merch. Nice, smooth. Did you see this? Do you know this? No. I almost featured this. This green Xtera. This is OE color, by the way. Yep.

It was only two model years. It was called Talat green, which is a terrible name for something. Really creative. Okay. This car was an Xtera. It was. It had a five point,

all the exteras had V-6s. Oh. It had a 5.6-liter V8 swap from a Nissan Titan. Nissan Armada. Or whatever. Same motor. Hooks right up somehow. No warning lights.

Like it was done right. With the automatic transmission from the Armada as well. Right. So it's not going to over. Canon, this thing. Four-wheel drive in this special color, very late model exterior too. I think was the last year 12? Sounds right.

Around 13, maybe. Somewhere. It was a later second gen. So second gen and a later model to come to that. So how cool. Unbelievably cool. So this thing is sitting at six grand. the night before it's selling.

And I know the reserve is higher than that. And I was thinking to myself, this would be a kind of cool, like, extra car. Like, it would be pretty cool. It would be pretty cool. Like, Will Barrett would be mad at me, right? But this would be cool. So I'm thinking about it.

And then the next day I check, and it sold for $22,000. And what I wanted to say about this, not in particular about this Xtera, but in general, good swaps bring all the money. Yeah. We talked about it with that E3-39-Wagon swap.

and this too. Like this guy didn't just put a 5-6 in it and then do stupid wheels and stupid off-road mods and make it look dumb. This looks OE, but it has a 5-6. And if you want to take it from there, you can. But that M5 was another good example,

that M-5, that guy took an E-339 touring and just made it into it like a clone M5. Good swaps bring all, all the money. And this continues to be the case. I know 22 doesn't seem like that much for an Xtera, but that's a $90,000 car. It's more than some of its parts. A regular Xtera with that miles plus under the cost of an armada.

You're at 10. It's true. You get an Xtera and an Armada. For 10. And then this dude has a 12 graded about. Dude, this is a business. 60. You really could.

Like if, and this guy actually in the comments was saying, did you read the comments at all? He was in Missouri and he was like, yeah, I've done a bunch of these. He's like, this is like the 10th one I've done, but I'm moving on to another one and, and he throws V8s into Xeras.

That's awesome. Well, if he keeps, I mean, with this result, hopefully he keeps flipping among cars and business. I just think that swaps are really great. If they're done really, really, well, which means it looks like it should have been factory. It drives like it should have been factory. It doesn't need a standalone and a gauge cluster.

Like, it really is. And when you do it right, you get all the money. What other swaps would you want to see? Oh, like what you. You know what another great one was? I don't do money. Remember that Transit Connect that was Focus ST swapped? Oh, yes.

Yes, I do. That's another good example. That's a good one. That was cool. Good swaps do ring the bell. Very interesting. Remember that FADM 3 WAX? Oh, yeah, absolutely.

That was cool, too. Yeah, it'd be hard to find at this point, probably. For example, using the search function, very different. 72 grand, and this was a salvaged title car, wasn't it? I think so, yeah. So cool. I considered this thing. I consider all the swaps.

Because I don't have the mechanical knowledge or the time, honestly, even if I did, to do this myself. But a lot of these times, it's stuff that you wished existed. I do wish that existed. This would have been cool. This would have been cool. All right. Give us your market report, Felipe. though. Can we talk about Gulf R spectrums?

So for a model year, two models, just type in Gulf R. Yeah, most reason why we did was, I think, yeah. Oh my God, that's what that sold for. Yeah, sold for big money. So the Gulf R spectrum offered 40 custom-ish colors to Gulf R buyers. Nobody bought these colors. A hundred ninety-nine people bought in the U.S. bought a spectrum color, which is a mistake.

It wasn't limited to $199? It was available to anybody and only $109 people chose it. I think, no, sorry, they only produced $199. I also think they only found buyers for $109. I think they would have done it again. And they bring big money. A regular 2019 golf bar with 26,000 miles at this point in an automatic is somewhere in the 20s. This is double that because of the color.

It's cool. A new golf arm, a brand new golf arm. Sorry, just scroll back up. A brand new golf arm. Yeah. With 4,000 miles of 26,000. And a steak, which is where is that sold for the same. Yeah.

Yeah, and a stick, like you said. So a third of the miles, a new one, it's a new body. Crazy, yeah. And a manual. And it's all for the same. And can I just, we are clearly the place for Spectrum Golf Arts, by the way. We sold the few. One sold on a competing platform literally this week that had half as many miles and was a stick.

I was in the better color and sold for like a grand more while being a notably more. Yeah, yeah. Appealing car. We are clearly the space. If you search Spectrum with a K, I bet you'll find it. The other ones. We are the place for these. They're so cool.

Man, we got 52 for that one. Early on, yeah. I remember that one. Yeah. These are so, so, so cool. They're worth money. Fight for green. Good colors.

It's true in Porsche World. It's true kind of everywhere. The colors bring money. Yeah. Spectrum cars are really cool. I saw this one come up and I was pretty jazz by it. It's so cool. Anyone blue's not.

The thing is, I have personal opinions about every spectrum color. No, I do. There's spectrum colors that I, can you pull up all the spectrum colors? please. There are 40. These are Volkswagen guy now. No, I've always loved the Spatum colors. They're just great colors. Oh my God. There are 40 colors.

Did all 40 get bought? Probably not. Some of them, my recollection, have like one got bought, but I think so. We posted about one of the 91 blue ones that it was one of 12. So if you figure that a few of them had 12, then probably some of these probably there were zero. Hopefully we can find them. There's some wild, wild colors. Oh, that is so cool.

That orange looks pretty cool. the greens are really beautiful, the burgundy, cool colors. 91 blue, to be clear, is a good color. The thing about it is, the golf is a special car, obviously. It's desirable and it's cool. However, they're not distinct from each other. They were almost all, they were, oh, they're only a few colors, right? There was like blue, black, white, gray.

So to be able to do anything that, like, sets it apart from the other ones is pretty special. Particularly when you're talking about only 199 cars. If they had done this for a whole model year, 6,000 cars that come out would be different, but this is legitimately rare. If you're looking for a spectrum and what comes up, you've got to buy it. You've got to buy it. If you want a spectrum, you've got to just choose whatever spectrum you can get. Yeah.

I'm here for it. I love it. Kenan, tell us about the Pano's Roadster. Oh, yeah. So, when I was young, I remember having a book that, like, just had a variety of sports cars in it. And one of the ones I thought that was the weirdest and the coolest was the Panaz Roadster. We finally got to sell one on Cars' bids. I'm so happy.

So this was special. This was one of the later ones, the A, A, I don't remember how it's AIV. I don't know how they brought up. Weren't they all AIV? No, I think there was a roaster before and then the AIV came later. I don't know much about these.

I've always wanted to review one, but they are so uncommon. So uncommon, and in my opinion, this was the idea, like, it's perfect. It's like the execution that I would like to see from a weird car. Yeah.

V8 power, manual transmission, like, it's what it should be. It's a better prowler. It's exactly. The prowler should have always been a VA. And by the way, I love the prowler, but imagine if I have a stick in a V8, and was littler.

Like, this car is small, and it's aluminum intensive. Yes, very much so. And I mean... That's what it stood for. Is that what an AIV says? Yeah. Yeah.

But nonetheless, really cool. And brought, like, good money. For 41, 3, like, so this is like Gen 1, like, nice Gen 1 Dodge Viper money. Was it a Mustang interior? It was a Mustang V8, right? Yeah, 4,6-1-2.

Yeah. Yeah, Mustang. No, it's better than a Mustang tier. Some stuff. That gauge cluster is. The gauge cluster is. But it's just around. The climate control definitely is.

Yeah. Look at that. Man, you were actually literally sitting on the racks. That's a cool car. We got to do one of these. Yeah, that's a Mustang. They made 176. They only made 176.

According to third-party sources. Just like the 199 spectrums, they could only sell 176 of these things. I think this car is cool as hell. I agree with you. I'm glad we got one on site. I'm glad we sold it. I have no idea what the market is for these cars. Mid-40s is like kind of normal for these.

So we're pretty close there. I will say, I wouldn't be surprised if the color had a slightly detrimental effect for this one. Sadly, I love it. Bright color. The red was what it was most famous for. Yes. Probably 12 of the 146. But this is sort of this sort of maroon is not quite with the keeping with the purpose of the car, right? It's like a crazy, ridiculous sports car.

And then it's like too classy of a color. It just seems like a, like a, it seems very British to me and the purple works. It is very weird. On the topic of weird and panels, this is another very odd thing about me. On my bicycle when I was a kid, I had a Ferrari series because I pretended when I was, it was my Ferrari. I also had the thing. It was called a trike. It was like you'd stand on it and you'd like kind of ski side.

decide with it. A very weird thing on that I put a pan on. Because it looked like this? Because it looked so weird and it was such an odd device. And that's how I feel about this car. But I think they're so damn cool. They are. I've never seen one in person would love to. Can't imagine how it drives. This is like, okay, you take a Mustang GT engine, the Super Church v8.

Yeah. Look at that. And you, the which is what, like 10, 15, 20 grand? Are you trying to build one of these? No, I'm just like, probably just buy it. Flipo, you can't swap. That won't work. I'm trying to think about how much it's worth to me.

Right? So a good SVT COBRA is 20. You know what your problem is? Like a good, no. Can I tell you what your problem is? This adds 20K of value to me compared to a regular SVT cover. That's what I'm getting at. This seems like a deal for how weird it looks.

I agree. But nonetheless, do you know what your problem is? I agree. But the specialness of the car, even if this was 100 grand, the specialness of the car is intangible. You can't look at it. You can't look at everything from a cost benefit. So you're pro NFTs. You want it to be not a physical object.

You know, you want to be intangibly. Dude, let me tell you something. If you're going to try to analyze everything based on dollar value, the 250 GTO is going to kick your butt. Have I ever expressed any answer to 250 GTO? But the market has shown you that it believes what the 50 GTO is worth. And so the market tells you, you're wrong. Yeah. Just like the velocity sex thing.

All right, move on. We got to move on to questions. The questions share brought to you by Carson Bids merch. You can access it by. going to Will Barrett's home. For Will Barrett. There's a few good questions today. I'm trying to decide if I should give you a rank question or not, or spare you the rank

question. What's the vehicle in question? We'll find out in a map. But there are some good questions, and I had to go deep to find the really good ones, like I usually do, but this time I went really deep and I found some with no upvodes, but they were really insightful. So first question from Joe Hahn, what do you think? This is a really good one.

Don't look at it. Don't early question. He cheats everything. What do you think the DeLorean's reputation would be in a hypothetical world where back to the future didn't exist? Now, his question continues, but the car was released as intended with a proper V6. Let's start with just imagining it released as it was with no back to the future. Can I answer the question?

Yeah. The Brickland. Brickland, Svian. That was exactly that I was 100%. No one would care. It would be obscure, weird. You'd see it occasionally at car shows. Wouldn't really know much about them.

and be like, oh, yeah, I kind of vaguely remember that. So your contention is that as much as DeLorean owners complain and moan about all the people that come up to him and ask him if it'll hit 88 miles an hour. It's the only reason. It's the only reason. Yeah. But fundamentally, the biggest problem for any new automaker or company or startup or whatever is discovery. How do you get people to find out you have a product?

And then they might fall in love with it. Yeah. Nobody would have found out about it. Yeah. And especially it wouldn't have endured. I mean, you would have sold them in period. I mean, the weird stuff was going on. When Marty McFly goes, you made a time machine out of a DeLorean?

Yeah. I think he was surprised at the fact that it was the, not that there was the time machine, that he, a Dolorian existed, that he was seeing one. That was, I think that was the surprise. And that was his choice. Like, you could have had all this other guy, you chose this thing? You chose this. I do think that.

Now, his question continues to say, what if it was built as an originally intended with a proper V6 or imagine it with a V8, like, what if it had actually been a good, really good driving car? Would that have changed anything? No. Probably not. We have the Pantera here in the office, which does drive really well. It drives well, fantastic, very cool special car. Ultimately did not have any successors, did not become a brand like Ferrari or Lamborghini, whatever. That would have happened or no. There are a lot of good cars that nobody cares about. Oh, wow. That's an interesting.

Are you thinking specifically of the Mercury Topaz? I am now. That's all I'm thinking about now. It's a very interesting question, and I totally agree with your point of view. You agree with it also? Okay. Next question from SDR Neb. Oh. Esther Neb.

Esther Neb. What is today's equivalent to the Trans-Siberia or the gated LP640, i.e. trims and specs that make the cars unsellable today, but they will be the one to have for later enthusiasts. That's pretty easy. I need more time on the question. I need a day. Like, I need a full day where I'm not doing anything else. The Storado is the obvious.

one that comes to mind. The Serrano is not. The Serrano is sellable. It has not been a seller. It has not been a seller. And on the used market, they're way under MSRP. However, it is very clear to me what's going to happen in that car. The cars, it is generally agreed that the cars that people hate in period are the cars that end up becoming amazing later.

I mean, I was a kid. I remember I was, I was 15 when the 02 to 05 NSX was on sale. Nobody wanted the car. Accurate dealers would have them for 18 months. They might as well have screwed him into their show. room floor. Didn't like in the final, it wasn't, I feel like there was one year where they sold like 50.

It was like, it was like the numbers were laughably low at the end. And now it's the most desirable version. Same with the S-2000s CR. I remember when the S-2000s came out. It was 21. It was joked about in the car magazines as being a stupid, pathetic run-out attempt to sell Honda S-2000s,

which at that time was a 10-year-old product, right? It came out in 2000 and by 09 was a 10-year-old product. I drove this one. It was a one-owner car and that's exactly. He said people laughed at him for buying it. Well, they didn't laugh at the end. He held it that whole time. I once got an email from a guy.

I once got an email from a guy who bought an S-54M coop in Phoenix Yellow off a showroom floor. Wow. It had been sitting for a year and he brought it home and his friends laughed at him and he kept it. And he emailed me maybe three years ago asking if I want to review it. He was in New Jersey. I wasn't going to go there to do it. But I remember reading the email. And of course, that's 100K car.

He had, you know, 20,000 miles. Easily. He, meanwhile, his friends were, his friends were buying like, you know, 9-9-6s that lost two-thirds of their value at an afternoon. That be gets a question. Will the SF-90 be left? No. Because it won't be supported. It won't run.

It'll be a paper way. But the question is, and by the way, another example, the 599 Alonzo edition. I remember everybody laughed at that. Yeah. And we still do. We still do. There's real money, though. For no reason.

997 speedster. There's a million of these. So the question is, what are the today's cars that are like this? And the answer is, I really would want to spend time thinking about it. But a lot of. Let's circle back next week. Oh, okay. Well, I was to say, I mean, there was some portions.

I mean, I feel like the sport classic probably be one of those. And maybe the Dak car will too. Those cars are beloved, right? I know, but they're going to, I think they're going to be more beloved. I guess they're not being more beloved. It does not qualify. It needs to be hated to. Make sure you subscribe to the, Doug the Niro channel and then follow our podcasts on Apple Podcasts.

New NSX type S. I think new NSX type S has a chance. You do love to say about the NSX. I don't think the NsX in general, but they only made 2,000 new NSXs, 3,000. It's rarer than the 4GT. And the type S specifically is a special car. I think there's a small chance that the seven-speed manual bandages last, like current gen, or last jet now, but modern. Ashton's in general, like special Ashton's in general.

Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. It's a maybe. I got to ponder. If they win LaMalle this year. But I will basically tell you that any performance car that is hated pretty much, I can think of very few examples where that car does. does not later become beloved.

Those 891MT Supras. You know, everybody's already going up. They are, which is why it's a little wrong to say this. But, you know, the new super is just a BMW. It's not the same. Eh, I have a suspicion where that car is headed. The good ones, anyway. Okay, I'll give you a week to think about it.

Thank you. Storado is the obvious one. Yep, that's too obvious. It's so obvious. It's too obvious. Too obvious. Next question from, oh, yes, yes. Doug, any regrets on not going balls to the wall

and buying an F40 after the investment to cars and bids? Yes, some. I mean, it's a tough one. The F40 was what I wanted. You know, when we were in talks to do the investment, even before we had actually finished the investment, I had engaged the services of my friend Matt, the cultivated collector, to look for a F40.

Ultimately, we didn't find my price range. Sometimes I regret it. But remember, I just said that I did 5,000 miles in my career GT. No way I would have done that in the FTA. No. There's no way. And also, you got to have the courage Gigi and the Kuntash, which are, it's not an F40.

but it's similar experience. The Kuntash provides a pretty similar experience and in some ways actually a better one because it has the V12 and it's definitely more insane looking. And so those two things, I think, have a really big thing. And it's also not as scary to use.

To use because of the value. Well, and that's the way the F40 builds boost and it's, you know... It would have been... There are days when I wish I had an F40 and there, I guarantee if I had bought the F40, there would be days where I wish that I had bought the Career GT. I think the dream is to have both and it's tough.

But I think that if you make a big point, purchase like that and can only choose one, any, you always have regrets. It's kind of funny, people always do hypotheticals and it's always like, if you have enough money for such and such, you have enough money for the other one.

No, not always. Like, I was in that situation. And one of those, like, if you can only buy one car, like, you know, kids do on the playground. Like, that was me. And I had to choose. And I chose one.

And I chose the one that is more usable and I use it more. And I don't, I don't, I think that I made the better choice. I would say 80% of me agrees with the choice I made. But there's, there's always going to be that 20%. And I think if it went the other way, I would still feel that way. There was a lot of the bait before you bought either.

Kenan is still, it hates me for it. Yep. A little bit. No, I love that you use the Courage GTT. I really love the Kuntash. Yeah. The F40, I mean, you say we would normalize an F40. If I hadn't added the Kuntash,

I think I would regret it more. Totally. You needed the buzzing. The one cool thing about the Career GT Kuntash combo is that I think those two cars do everything better than the F40, except for maybe being the icon. Although the Kuntash is for the general public is probably more iconic than the F40.

Yes, but we aren't the general public. We're car enthusiasts and so the F40 is the one. Hates me. Yep. Okay. Next question. Okay, I'm going to do it. We're going to do a rank.

All right. I'm open on my computer just to write down my thoughts. I also need to write down the cars because it's a little more complicated than a normal one. Rank all of the big 90s Japanese sports cars. Okay. This is tough. That's really hard.

The cars are only the top level. NSX Subaru. Yeah, NSX, NSX, Supra. 3,000 GT Do we carry those? Yeah, 300 ZX, Subaru SVX. FDRX7.

FDRX7, yep. FDRX7. And you know what? Are we missing? Are we missing? On there. Put our skyline and R33. Put R34 and R33.

Put Skyline GTR. Just put Skyline GTR. Yeah. And put, that's basically it. Yep. And I'm not going to go SDI and Evo. They weren't,

they were different. They were rally, four, or kind of thing. And we were just saying 90s in general. Yeah. And I'm not going Integrity Type R because we got an SX on here, and I think that that's the one. I'm going to throw out an order.

Oh, boy. Just to get this started. So, wait, so there's six. There's seven of these. There's six. There's six of these? Six of these. That's really hard.

Okay. I have an order. I'm going to make a call them for me. They're all really different. They're all really different. All right, everybody, take a second. Think to yourself. Yeah.

I'm doing that. Yeah, I think we, I'm just Googled them, and I think we have them all. You got the SVX in there, right? No. No, you got to put the SVX on. I'm not putting that. No, SVX has to go on. I am not putting the SVX.

Wait, that's on there. The SV20 SV-20 S-R-Fever on there. The Sv-V-X did not have 206 horsepower, therefore didn't count. We're talking pinnacle cards. 276-4-power. It has a six-cylinder. The RX-7 didn't even have a six-cylinder.

But it had a 276-word-fire, right? Yeah. Well done. Rotary, all the referee bros older eyes. There are going to be people who eviscerate you for this. Good. People want to hate. Okay, I'm going to, the SVX can be on my list.

People are not going to like my answers. That's all I'm going to say. All right, wait, we have to talk it through. I don't want to, I don't want to just have you do it in silence. So, let's let's first off, let's, let's rank, let's do last first. I would think the SVX. Okay, I'm not used to SVX on this list. I love Subaru.

I love two-tone cars. Nah, no SVX. The SVX is especially last because it was, I will put a, in the U.S., they were automatic only. And the automatic wasn't even good enough to handle the power that it had, which we 200 horsepower and they all destroy their Okay, SVX last for all three of us, we can all agree? Yeah, done. Okay, next to last, and you're going to upset a community no matter what you do.

However, again, I want to point out that this is a ranking of great cars. Yep. Okay, and also really hard to pick between these. And it's not one where I'm going to, I've thought about it for approximately five seconds. I could be swayed. The last, the next last one is the 3000 GT, and I'll tell you why. the base models were front wheel drive. Yeah.

Which is true of no other car on this list. What? Okay. We're talking base model Skyline GTR. Oh, wait. We're not. And actually, the base skylines were front wheel drive. So, like, what are we doing here?

But, but, but there were so many, 3,000 GT, there were only three versions. What are we doing? We're not talking about the turbo. We're not talking about the car. The car is in general, included the base model. But you think that's better than the Z32? Like, I don't... Really?

Yeah. You have driven them? No, I have. I drove a late VR4. It was a good car. So you, you, I put the 3000 GT just above the 300 ZX. I actually agree with that. Okay, so you're changing your ranking.

No, 3,000 GT is last. Okay, I put 300 ZX last. Although I love the GT and the Dodge Stealth. Yeah, designed by the man who did the Lamborghini Diablo. Is that going to be verified? Yeah, that is true. What are you putting third to last? Well, wait.

Second to last, oh, oh yeah, because the SVV. Third to last, I'm only doing it because you have to. The 300 ZX has to be next. Okay, because you and I have those flipped, but we're in the same. You have to put the 300 ZX next, and we're only talking about the Z32. And the reason you have to do that is because your remaining cars are the NSX, the Supra, the Skyland GTR, and the FD. Like icons. Yep.

Like genuine icons. Yeah, because the Z32, 300X is a seriously good car. Yeah. But the next four are some of the, probably the four greatest cars Japan ever made. And in their time, some of those compelling cars. Yeah. Period. Period.

Okay. So, what's first? I am saying NSX first. I'm a Mark 4 guy, man. Here's the benefit of the NSX. It's the only, well, that, to be fair, and the FDRX are the only purpose-built sports cars. The Supra had lower trim versions. It's not really as, like, deliberately, it's not mid-engine.

It's not as sports car-y. That's true. as an NSX. The NSX, although I still always feel they're a little underpowered, is one of the best balanced sports cars I've ever driven. Our FD is too. FD. I've never driven an FD, but it's one of the most beautiful.

FD is not only beautiful. Design here in California, not only beautiful, but smooth, perfect handling. I've never driven a rotary. Imagine a better Miata, which is hard to do because the Miata in this era was a great car. Pretty damn good, yeah. It's like a more powerful and bigger, but doesn't lose any of the littleness.

Because the RX7 was still a little car. Does the rotary helper hurt? It helps because it's one of the smoothest. No, I know, but we don't have to own it. We don't have to own it. We're not talking about reliable. Oh, okay. We're not talking about NSX is number one regardless.

Okay. I agree with Felipe. I put the NSX at number one. And the FD at number two? I put the Super. The Super Community hates me. I want to be one of you. I want to be part of the Super Community.

But the GTR, I... You're putting the FD above the Supra. It's so good. You put the FD above... You put... So the GTO, you just don't like that. the GTR then? I love, dude, what am I supposed to do? What, you rank them?

All right, Kenan, NSX and then what? NSX. Yep. I'd say then, are we supposed, so it's R34 and R33? I think it's just skyline GTR in general. I think, realistically, it's going to be the R33 for the predominant. The 34 was made it for the three dominant. Yeah, but the 34 wasn't, was mid-in-night. But the predom.

I don't even think the 34 went into the 2000s. I think it was purely a 90-3. What is he saying? What would be R-32 then? That came out like November of 89. Just for the record, the R34 did go into 2000s. Did it? Okay.

Yeah, early 2000. You rank them, rank them. I would put, so NSX, I think I would put, then I put the Supra. Yeah, see, it came out in January 99, so maybe I'm a little wrong. But it was the 90s car. Then I would put the GTR. Honestly, I love the R3. You put the FD, if you drove an FD, you'd put it first.

Midway through this, I had the almost at the same order as Canon, but I flipped. the GTR and FD. You know what? I've never driven one. I'd love to. I think they're wonderful cars. You know what? But don't forget,

it also was available with an automatic, so. So was the Supra. Yeah, that's true too. So was the NSX. Actually, so, yeah, all three of those. I don't think the Skyline was.

No, I don't, maybe that should be number one. All right. So we all agree. But your shift with your left hand, always. We all in mind. I prefer it.

We all agree on. I like driving right-hand drive cars. That's a show on take. For whatever reason, when I was in Africa, it just like, It feels more, I just, it's more comfortable to command the car. I'm right-handed.

To command the car with my right-hand, I command the engine with my right-hand. I don't know. I just, it felt more natural. Okay. I think it's because I play the cello and I'm used to like, I don't know. He's dropping out of the cello. He's dropping his experience. We all right-hand drive.

I'm a well-cultured person. NSX first. That's the end. We also pretty much agree that 300 ZX and 3,000 GT should be last at some level, although I strongly believe the 3,000 GT should be worse. The Z-32, 300-ZX is a seriously. good car. Agreed. Never driven it, but the 2,000 GT just feels a little bit,

maybe it's a little bit rare, less commune around, it feels more special. Especially the VR4 Spider, you know? We got to get that. The VR4 Spider is not a beautiful car. The VR4 spider? Top down, that is one of, that is the most beautiful, except for the R.D., which is the most beautiful car for me. Wow. Top down, 3,000 GT Spider is, not just VR4, by the way, they did a regular. Okay, but have you ever seen it with the top

up? Yeah, I think it looks pretty good. I don't think the coop looked that good, to be honest. Okay, the point is, the point is, I want to switch my order around completely. After NSX, I do want to put Mark 4, then GTR, then FD. No, wait. That's Mark 4, then FD, then FD, then FD, then, you know what, I can't decide. FD second.

You're, you committed super, somewhere in the middle. You know what? I'm okay with that. That's, my list is a purist list. A list that comes out of this with NSX first and FD second is a purist's list. And by the way, I want the Skyline head to super. I had to convince you. I had to convince you the NSX was a good car.

One of the reasons I want the Supra is irony. I don't think the Supra is better driving than any of my top three. So NSX, FD, Skyline, GTR, Supra, 500 ZX, 3,000 GT, SVX. That is the correct order. I finally got one of these. My order is better. Thank you. Flip, one, I have more aligned than I would have thought.

Yeah, same. Surprise, though. And I've spent a lot of time in all of these cars. I've driven many of all of these, except Mark four. I've only ever driven one Mark four. Is that it? I rely primarily on the internet to educate me about that car. And Stradman.

Stradman. Yeah, Stradman. To be clear, I rely on Stradman to educate me about all cars. And, of course, about how to best furnish a large house. And to deal with your landscaping. And the gate. And the gate. And the IRS.

And the Kahn, Kony's egg. Final car. Final question. Final question. Final question. And by that, I mean, there will be two final questions. Number one, from Speed and Power 15. What do you think of the Ford GTX-1?

Would you ever buy one? And if so, what does it work to you? For those who don't know, know, the Ford GT, which I have, they made a convert, they, they briefly, they were going to make a convertible version. Ford had a lot of different partners to create the Ford GT. They didn't all build the whole thing in house. There were a lot of people who participated. And they were going to make a convertible with one of the partners. And they're just, either it was too expensive to do, or they just didn't have the interest because the car wasn't selling well enough as a

coop. They didn't do it. One of the things you'll notice is that a lot of the, a lot of the really special cars that were only made as coops, one of the reasons for that, is that there wasn't enough interest in the coop to justify a convertible. A good example of that is actually the new NSX where there was absolutely going to be a convertible and then it just didn't happen. So this car is one of those. There was a company in Wisconsin that worked with Ford that ended up making, I don't know how many. They were going to make 200 or 500.

I think maybe they got 50 out the door, maybe 30 to 50, something like that. And they called it the GTX-1 and it's an open car for GT. I love it. I think it's the coolest thing in the world and I really want one. and they come up for sale occasionally, but very, very, very uncommonly. Oh, this is the one I think of. Unfortunately, a decent chunk of them have these wheels, which are not attracted. This is a yellow car with hideously yellow wheel.

The car was actually engineered much different than you would expect. The rear is completely different from a Ford GT. A lot of people think they just cut off the roof. That is not what happened. The rear, like the entire rear, in fact, the clam opens up. The entire rear is different. So you can see here in this picture. My car does not have that double bubble looking thing.

Instead, it has the glass coming down. Everything in the back is different. Also, the roof panels actually clamp into place with a gasket around them to keep rain out. Like, it is a well-engineered car because it was done with Ford. Anyway, the point is, have I ever considered one? Off and on, and, like, recently, I've kind of been really on it. However, the Ford GT is on a big upswing right now, and I just think this car has probably gotten out of reach for me to be able to want to afford. I think that I would probably pay another 200 grand on top of my car, so probably like mid-fives for one.

And I think that's not available anymore. I think that most of these cars were driven basically zero, so they're all no-mile cars and they're a rare GTX-1. I think they're probably more expensive than that now. Yeah, it would be cool, but you're doing all right. I am. It would be cool to have this car with an open roof. It would be. The only regret I have, own this car for seven years, the only regret I have really is that here in Southern California,

I don't have the ability to have an open roof in it. And I think initially I couldn't afford one. And over the years, I've come to the conclusion, like, maybe I should have stretched and done it when I could have. Turns out you couldn't afford it, not to. Yeah, probably. Great final question for today. No, there was one more, which is for us.

And by us, I mean us. From Porsche 997 turbo, Doug and Kenon, maybe Felipe. The Ferrari SF 90s is an incredibly fast supercar with a thousand horsepower from the factory. It seems to be the perfect Ferrari supercar on paper. Scorching performance, textbook design, feels like, a driver's car. However, the used market doesn't like the car. With the SF-90 being the seemingly perfect supercar, why does it do so badly in new and used sales? Well, for one, it was incredibly expensive and it looks very much like a normal Ferrari. It looks like an F8. There

really wasn't that much to distinguish them visually. And so people are like, why am I going to spend more than double the cost once you optioned it for this car? And so I think that really hit it. The other thing is there are a lot of questions around Ferrari's hybrid technology about how they're going to support it, it's reliability. Every time we go into the Ferrari dealer, there's at least one left Ferrari and they're getting a battery, and they're $300,000 for a battery, and Ferrari doesn't supply them anymore. So, you know, there's

that. And also, it's just like, I think those are the main reasons. And production numbers. And production numbers, yeah, it's not a limited production car. They just are making them and, like, they're around. And so I think for those reasons, I don't even think on paper I would consider it a perfect Ferrari. It's a great modern Ferrari, but it's not at the number of people want it.

And the number of the transacting for now, the market agrees with that. And at that number, it feels much more appropriate in the high 300 range. The other thing that I think is a sophisticated point, but important to mention, is that in addition of the fact that it looked just like the 296 or an F8, it didn't perform much better. That is also true. And so, like, you were not only asking people to pay double the cost for an unlimited production car that could have been made a zillion of,

but you were asking him to make this massive financial commitment and not really get that much of an additional benefit. And also hybrid if you wanted that. 296 is so good. And then not only are you paying that, you're getting that hybrid system, which you're like, people at that level aren't really even sure they want.

Right. That's a tough thing. And it was a transition for Ferrari to hybrid, but also like a lot of screens and a lot of other interior changes. I agree that on paper, it's a pretty desirable car. But when you think about these things,

the 296 is so much more desirable in my mind. One of the most desirable sports cars on the market today. Definitely. And to be clear, you know, Farrar's hybrid technology, this seems to be more reliable. But like, it was a concern for people. But I agree, like, for a whole lot less, the 296 kind of gets you there. Yeah. I will say also, Fri FRIFF front transmissions being $70,000,

Feroys still has this rap that, like, the cars are difficult to own. And I would be concerned about that with an SF90 with the hybrid thing. I would rather limit my exposure to. any potentially experimental. And like, Ferraris are cars that people own for a pretty long period of time, generally. People like to have them, collect them, take care of them. I remember when our co-founder Blake had his F-430, it had F1 transmission problems. He took it to Ferrari to diagnose.

They contacted the factory and they said the people who worked on this system or no longer here. We can't help you. You're on your own. That, they made a gazillion of those, and not that long ago. If they're willing to do it with a transmission, there's no way they're going to continue to support the Yeah, and that affects your reset value also. And that deeply affected. Because that is radically affected FF resale values, the fact that that front transmission.

During COVID, they're in the high 80s. Yeah. Like, I mean, yeah, and it will fail. It's like a question if, question of when. So, yeah, I think those are the reasons. And for that reason, give me a communal Ferrari. Yeah. Okay.

That's our pot. It's, it. I just want to make clear to everybody again, NSX, FD, Skyline GTR, Mark 4, 300 ZX, 3,000 GT, and SVX. And cars and bids merch, done. Yeah, yeah, buy some of the show. shirt. You've done it all. Finest podcast you've ever done.

Filippo, any final words? Finest podcast we've ever done. Boom. Carthambitz.com. Goodbye. Goodbye.