This Had Oscar Buzz - 090 – Magic Mike

Episode Date: April 20, 2020

Based loosely on star Channing Tatum’s experience as an exotic dancer, 2012’s Magic Mike lured director Steven Soderbergh out of his ongoing “retirement” and became a summer smash. Women loved it, men loved, the critics loved it – except the Academy did not. Though released during the full swing of the McConnaissance, it would take … Continue reading "090 – Magic Mike"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilynne Heck. Wow, busy guy. We're welcome to stage, the one, the only. Magic Mike. You are the husband that they never had.

You are that dreamboat guy that never came along. That's a cool table. You made that? You should sell these things. That's actually the idea. My sister? Mike. Oh, nice one.

So how do you know my brother? I'm an entrepreneur. I manage a few businesses. I'm trying to hit him, my sister. Okay, uh, good talk. Entrepreneur stripper or stripper entrepreneur? Either one. I was hoping this was all a joke.

It's pretty funny. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that will pretend to commit jury tampering in order to goad Randy Travis into a fight. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I am here, as always, with my co-host, the original King of Tampa. Chris File. Welcome, Chris. Good morning. What a fine shade of leopard print you are wearing. I am only wearing leopard print. This is not the Tiger King. This is... The Tiger King of Tampa. I know. I am in an outfit that is... Listen, this one is for the ladies. This one is for the ladies. I will say, speaking of the Tiger King, though, you can picture him going to see

Kings of Tampa. Oh, God, I don't want to picture him going to see the Kings of Tampa. But you can. Like, it feels like, it feels like Dallas in this movie feels like a peripheral character who would have showed up for, like, a 30-second interview in that series, right? Like, he wasn't part of the whole thing, but, like, he knew enough people involved. Right. Right. One of the deleted scenes of Tiger King is him going to the Kings of Tampa and then interviewing, like, the managerial staff.

And they're like, he would come in and just blow $10,000 in a night, something like that. Something crazy. Yeah, exactly. But also, like, he and Dallas had, like, a get-rich-quick scheme, like, happening that never got off the ground. But, like, they had, like, big plans for something, right? Like, he was, like, an angel investor and some sort of, like, scam. He tried to rope him into a pornography business or something. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. 100% that's absolutely because like that is the vibe of magic mic i think at its core is this very sort of like i know tiger king is oklahoma and not florida but like tiger king also has a very

florida vibe let's just say that like there's and i feel like that it is the epitome of florida man yes absolutely yeah and i think magic mike that's one of the many virtues of magic mike is that it gets how Tampa everything in that movie is. Like, the good and the bad, like, the, you know, whatever, sandbar parties and also, like, basically just, like, surrounded on all sides by, like, scuzzy hustlers. And, like, that's fine, you know.

But that it also kind of, like, represents all of consumerism and that, like, we, as all consumers are all trash and all consumerism is trash. That was sort of how the line about Magic Mike, you know, as it went on, was just like, it's about the economy. Like, it's sort of like how Logan was a Western. Like, did you hear that Magic Mike is really about the economy? I mean, Logan is not a Western, and Magic Mike is more about the economy than Logan

is a Western, but, like... I'm not going to get into a debate about whether Logan's Western. I'm not going to get into a debate whether anything is a Western. Unless it's Magic Mike, Magic Mike is a Western famously. It's also a screwball comedy. It's a lot of things. So all of these things that all movies are, but actually they are this. It is also, I realized watching it again, and especially compared to Magic Mike

XXL, like you can really tell which one is the Soderberg movie, which one is like, you know, muted both in sort of palette and tone. Well, it does help that a higher percentage of Magic Mike is all yellow, because this is one of the Soderberg movies that it's like Soderberg was like prepping the camera and said what if yellow what if yellow what if just a real gauzy yellow yeah totally um but as we have mentioned we are going to be talking about Magic Mike this week you saw it on when you clicked download this podcast it is not a surprise to you Magic Mike the Cockrock and Kings of Tampa and all none of them none of those Kings of Tampa were nominated for Oscars and that is a huge

bummer, specifically when we're talking about one of them, and we'll get into that, of course. Magic Mike 2012 movie directed by Steven Soderberg, written by Reed Carolyn, Carolyn, I'm going to say. Caroline, Caroline, read is spelled, R-E-I-D, the right way, based in part on Channing Tatum's real-life history as an exotic dancer, starring Channing Tatum, Alex Pettifer, who, imagine my surprise watching this movie and just like, oh, right, Alex Pettifer is like kind of one of the main characters of this movie. Alex Pettifer, who is so, we will definitely get into it, like, so far gone from the culture already, ready, that he didn't make it into your indistinguishable white, blonde,

male actor game. Uh-huh. Oh, yeah. He has completely, completely powerful. He can't even make it there, man. No, no. And if he had made it in there, it would have seemed strange because it's just like, why are we even talking about Alex Pettifer?

We don't talk about, oh, who was that kid who? I mean, also Cam Gigande could, like, you know, has also passed relevance, so he couldn't be in that. But who was the guy? Remember that movie fighting with Cam Giganday and the other one who was in the one? I thought that was a Channing Tatum movie. You're right. Shit. There was another.

There's a whole subset of, like, this category of actor that is, like, could be confused for Channing Tatum. Oh, yes. Like Channing Tatum passed. Channing Tatum created a type for a while there. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but the movie I'm thinking of is, because you're right, fighting was the one with Channing Tatum and a very strange Terrence Howard.

Do you remember how odd Terrence Howard is in that whole movie? I never, you know I didn't see that movie. Never Backdown is the movie I was thinking of. And the star of that movie was Sean Ferris. I should have remembered that name. Who everybody was like, he looks exactly like Tom Cruise. He's going to be like a huge thing. and not true.

Absolutely not. And that movie starred Amber Hurd, who was the Cody Horn, who was allowed to make other movies after a while. Cody Horn, not given that luxury. Also starring Matthew McConaughey, of course. We'll get into that for sure. Matt Bomer, Joe Mangonello, Adam Rodriguez, Kevin Nash, Olivia Munn, Gabriel Iglesias,

and Surprise Riley Keogio, who I had forgotten, was in this movie. Yes. And not in an Alex pedifer way, but in a like, oh, what a lovely surprise. Riley Keough was in this movie

before I even knew who she was. What were you doing in Tampa that you showed up for two hours to do this movie? Much like Robert Duval and Widows, they just sort of like showed up and Riley Keogh was just like, yeah, film it, it's fine. Yeah, hey guys.

Hey guys, it's up. Premiered at the Los Angeles Film Festival on June 24th, 2012, opening wide a mere five days later on June 29th. It was a success. critics liked it audiences liked it it was the mahogany

of its time men loved it women loved it they all loved it they all I can never think of boy RuPaul's drag race has kind of ruined mahogany for me because I can't watch that scene that great Diana Ross scene for mahogany where she says that women

Are you kidding? Did you see those people? They love me They all love me The men love me The women love me mahogany women love me men love me I'm a winner baby

all that stuff without Milan from drag racing Milan notably my least yes horrible snatch game impression and then Ross Matthews being like oh the men love me

and women love me they all love me this was a real heavy Diana Ross this was like Diana Ross about 430 in the morning after a couple packs of cigarettes genuinely the crunchiest snatch game ever yeah yeah that's kind of true good way to put it

All right Chris You're not going to put this off any longer We're going to get to this No I'm here I am here to talk About a sexy illusionist Aren't we all sexually illusionist At the end of the day

But you are going to get 60 seconds To sum up the plot of Magic Mike I'm not going to put a lot of pressure on you But I'm just going to say A plot of Magic Mike's kind of not so daunting I don't think there's a lot of twist in terms All right So 60 seconds are on that

clock, ready when you are. I'm ready. All right, and go. Okay, Magic Mike is about Magic Mike. Is he a magician? No, he is a stripper, but he also wants to start his own business, uh, making like weird furniture for people, but it seems like kind of a pipe dream and an Etsy shop.

Um, so instead he is a stripper. He does construction on the side and meets this kid named Adam, who's 19 years old, ropes him into his stripping show, which is run by Matthew McConaughey named Dallas. Uh, it is, uh, The Wonderful Kings of Tampa. They do strip shows for women. 30 seconds. Oh, 30 seconds.

Great. Mike falls kind of like with a crush on Adam's sister. Her name is Brooke. She is incredibly skeptical about the whole enterprise and Mike as a person. Cut to Adam being incredibly influenced by this world and they go to do a like strip party at a sorority and they get busted. And there's like a fight breaks out and he leaves a backpack that's filled with 10,000 worth of ecstasy that he leaves and then Adam basically screws

Mike over with this and Mike leaves the business. Time. Time. I mean, that's kind of what happens. There's also like the show is trying to go from Tampa to Miami so it's like supposedly this

like upgrade that's happening. Dallas screws Mike over because Dallas had promised him equity and Mike all of a sudden he wants more and he wants to have breakfast with Cody Horn. He like can't get ahead in any way. He wants to like be a serious like small business person with his furniture business. He made a table in his house from like some shit that like washed up on the beach that looks like a wind turbine. Do you remember? I mean, this feels like maybe it's a thing that's still going on, but this sort of trope of like, oh, he may be like incredibly like attractive. He also builds furniture. This sort of like sexy, the sexy trope of the man. who, like, makes things with his hands.

Like, he makes a wagon wheel coffee table. The entire interior decoration in his home is, like, wood panels, but not the tacky kind. It's, like, it's all very aspirational, but at the same time, he's still a very nice dirt bag at the same time. You could never allow a character like that to show any kind of enthusiasm for interior decorating. but clearly this man has put a lot of thought into interior decorating. So it's one of those things where it's just like, oh, I just rolled out of bed and everything is reclaimed wood.

First of all, speaking of just rolled out of bed, this movie introduces itself to you with Channing Tatum's beautiful butt, just like sashaying right across your movie screen. And like the type, what do you call those like 3D things? if you stare into them, you can see another picture. Yeah, it's like his thighs become a magic eye where you swear multiple times in like three seconds

that you might have just seen his penis. Yes. And like the movie fully wants that. I would totally buy that being a visual effect because like this is what the movie is kind of about. It's like commodifying him immediately to the audience where it's like

he has just his body. Yes. Yes. It's it's speaking in a visual language. Also, you can correct me, or our listeners can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure there was an almost identical scene in Dear John, the Nicholas Sparks movie that he did with Amanda Seifred, where I feel like you get to see his butt in a very sort of, like, gratuitous bathroom-y way. Yeah. And truly, you know, the golden era of Channing Tannum's butt, because I'm pretty sure we don't ever see it again in a movie after this. right like we'll talk a bit about how like in what i'm sure you see it in double xl i'm sure you see it in

double xl i feel like double xl is distinctly less thongs than magic mike see okay but i'm also going to place a distinction between any kind of nudity that we see in the stripping scenes versus like non-stri like non-professional you know what i mean just like we're seeing mike in an unguarded moment we're seeing but but like yes it's like diagetic nudity But, like, I think outside of the Magic Mike movies from this point on, Channing Tatum, I think probably makes an active decision to be less cheesecakey in films. Like, even something like dumb old Jupiter ascending, where he's like, you know... So covered, he has a goatee. Right, right.

Yeah, but it's just like he's, you know, he's an adventurer. He's not, you know, he's not, like, sexy man. or just like, you know, Logan Lucky or whatever. I mean, he is naked in Foxcatcher, but that is not sexy. No, right. There's nothing sexy at all about anything in Foxcatcher, which is really interesting because it's so much about this just, like, masculinity. I could probably write a paper if I were still in school

on, like, Channing Tatum and performative masculinity in film. Because, like, he's weirdly, like, his career deals with that a lot. Channing Tatum's career is fascinating to me. I texted you last night, and I was like, can we talk about what happened to Channing Tatum and, like, where he went? And your answer was, like, kind of very simple. And maybe, like, we don't really need to delve into it too much.

I think there's some personal life stuff going on there. His marriage to Jenna Dewan ended in... But, like, there was... We have Logan Lucky in recent years, and then it's, like, a B part in the Kings sequel, he's one of the ensemble members and Hail Caesar, he has a lot of

ensemble parts. Not a whole, like in terms of leading roles since, because like Magic Mike happens and it's like an insane year for him. We talk about the McConnoissance and we certainly will, but like 2012 was a huge year for Channing Tatum because he does Magic Mike and 21 Jump Street in the same

year. And I really, I am the king of, speaking of the Kings of Tampa, I am the king of making sure people don't forget. A, how great 21 Jump Street was, and B, how great it was for his career, because it really established him as somebody who was good at comedy. And I always thought that that was true, back to that dumb Ron Howard movie, The Dilemma, which was bad, but I guess that was only the year before, whatever. I remember watching The Dilemma, and I'm just like, wait a second, hot-ass Channing Tatum is really funny in this, like what's going on? And 21 Jump Street absolutely

solidified that, proved it. He's incredibly funny in that movie. It's incredibly good. And then so that combined with Magic Mike, all of a sudden it's just like, oh shit, like he's in White House down now. He's in G.I. Joe retaliation. I guess it, like,

was expected to probably keep going because then like 22 Jump Street happens in 2014. Same here is Foxcatcher. Foxcatcher, unfortunately, and kind of inevitably, he gets overshadowed by Steve Correll and Mark Ruffalo, both of them get Oscar nominations. I think Channing Tatum is great in Foxcatcher, but...

Yeah, I think that's his best performance. I think he's wonderful in that. And then, but then 2015 is a weird year because it's Jupiter ascending, but also, or Magic Mike Double X,L, but also Jupiter ascending. And I think the success of Magic Mike Double XL doesn't balance out the thud that Jupiter ascending does. And I think, you see after that, the only time he gets a lead since that is with Soderberg in Logan Lucky, which he's great in. But again, that movie is a commercial flop, which, you know, unfortunately, because that's a really good movie. Yeah, I love that movie. Now the only thing on his docket is this movie dog that is supposed to come out in 2021. Lord knows what anybody's production schedules are anymore. But it's him and

read Carolyn teaming up again for what essentially seems. like male wild like he's just walking the Pacific Coast Highway but also with a dog so it's like we've seen those movies these movies are not usually very good so it's not too promising

what's interesting is according to Wikipedia his marriage to Jenna Dewan ends like they get divorced in 2019 but they had been separated for a while there because he was dating Jesse Jay for at least a couple years right that was one of those just like did you know

that Channing Tatum and Jesse Jay are together because like unless you were on Instagram how would you know Because the Instagram between those two of them Yeah but like other than that Like that was sort of like His career like from 2016 on He's really made very very few movies

And like I said only Logan Lucky has been in a lead Like the Lego movies don't count Because he's like he voices Superman Who is not a main character in any of those Kingsman the Golden Circle is a supporting role and a pretty brief one, as far as I remember. Small Foots of Voice role. Hail Caesar, as we said, is a great, a great little highlight of that movie.

He has, of course, the No Dame's production number that is, like, probably the highlight of that movie. You could totally include in the performing masculinity ova of Channing Tatum. But even in that movie, he's not a lead, and even among the supporting players, he gets overshadowed by, like, Aldenar and Reich and Ray Fonz, which is too bad. But he's so talented. I think he's so good. I was reading in preparation for this. Grantland had a profile of Reed Carolyn because I wanted to sort of like see what their professional relationship is because like they have a very sort of like producer star kind of thing. And Reed Carolyn writing the screenplay, it had a vibe of like, you know, he's sort of like

channeling, obviously, Channing Tatum's personal history. And they had apparently, Reed Carolyn had worked as like Kimberly Pierce's like basically right-hand man on stop loss. And so that was when he and Channing Tatum met and sort of began this sort of creative partnership that had gone on. And so, In this article, I'm reading, they had mentioned, and this article was just before XXL happened, came out. And it mentioned that Channing had been looking to essentially produce more and act less. And that was before, you know, the sort of the bottom kind of fell out.

That was, you know, Jupiter's sending had already opened, but still. But it's not like he's producing a whole ton either. Do you know what I mean? Like, it just really does feel like there's been some kind of, like, tactical retreat. And I don't know, it's a, it's a bummer for me. It'll be exciting whenever he comes back, hopefully in a movie that's not a dog movie. I was going to say, let him fucking dance again. He's so, like, to just be like...

Make a third Magic Mike! He's such a good, like, pure entertainer. Make a third Magic Mike, absolutely. Like, I didn't like 22 Jump Street much, but just, like, make another comedy. Make another, like, really dumb, broad comedy. make a movie with he could have been one of the guys in neighbors

do you know what I mean like that kind of like that level of a comedy something smart but also like that knows how to use him he could have been the you know he could have been in a movie like game night yeah you know what I mean he could have been an Apatow lead oh absolutely he absolutely could have

and probably a more interesting one than some of the ones that he's had but um yeah Channing Tatum I miss him I think he's really good in this movie. That's the other thing. It's like McConaughey rightly gets a ton of the attention because what McConaughey is doing and, you know, we'll touch on this soon, is astounding. But I think Channing Tatum for being the sort of, you know, the center of this movie that still has to share that kind of lead role with Pettyfer, who he really shows up Pettyfer in this movie. And he's, his chemistry with Olivia Munn in that opening scene.

where it's the two of them sort of like getting dressed in the morning and then the girl who they had the threesome with is still just like knocked out on the bed but I think their chemistry together is really really great I know a lot of people don't love Olivia Munn I do kind of I think she I you know from a show was sort of crappy and uneven as the newsroom I think she's so funny in that

but this made me want to watch another whole movie of the two of them together Channing Tatum is really good in this movie and I think like some of the things that he's really good at in like the type of complicated people that he plays very well are people like this character who are struggling with something and it's usually like a masculinity type of thing it's also the same is true for foxcatcher but they're also people who don't have a lot of depth to them or don't have like a vernacular to express like whatever their emotion is or to like properly grapple with like and come out ahead of whatever their certain like character challenges are and like that doesn't sound very interesting in and of itself as far as a character description goes but channing tatum makes it really really compelling to watch and also they write in this cody horn character who's not a i don't think is a very good character and is not played particularly interestingly

but they essentially write in a character whose function in the movie is to call bullshit on him at all times even at the sort of like this crucial point in the movie when we the audience are on his side we the audience believe in him and this like love interest character

at this very crucial point in the movie is just like no like I don't I don't buy this and I never did like you're not gonna you know start your own business you're not going to, you know, make a go of this furniture building thing. And it's almost like within his own story, he's building in this sort of self-doubt about whether he can make it. And it's just like you just, I hope at some point he realized that, like, he is this good because, I mean, obviously he starts out Tatum's career with, like, she's the man and step up. And it's like, both of them, 2006, it's like this incredible, just like, oh, new hot guy on the premises. But that's basically all he was for a lot of years.

Even when he's in this movie, like, Guy to Recognizing Your Saints, which, A, like, nobody saw. And B, it's just sort of, you know, sort of like grungy, tough guy or whatever. But still, just, like, his looks were so overshadowing everything. And it took a while for people to really. I mean, even in, like, public enemies. It took the lust to really kick in, because correct me if I'm wrong, stoploss is the movie where he, is he the one who's, like, digging in his underwear and the rain? Yes. Oh, yeah. We can all thank Kimberly Pierce for enacting this.

We sure can. But, like, it took, like, some, it took, like, an overt image of sexualizing him, even though, like, that's a, a, of sexualizing. a pretty harrowing movie. Right. Yeah, almost everything with him. Yeah, to, like, kind of kick it into gear for him. Because after then is when, like, the G.I. Joe movie happens. He's a romantic lead in a Nicholas Sparks movie.

Did you ever see the Eagle? I saw The Eagle in the theater. I was, like, that much on board for Channing Tatum. Oh, really? I was going to ask you if this was a movie that you just showed up and said, what is playing right now? No, I was. also I feel like that director was somebody

Oh, it's Kevin McDonald and I had really loved He was the director of Last King of Scotland But I had really loved the documentary that he had made about the Munich Olympics called One Day in September But he had also directed The Last King of Scotland And the State of Play remake

Which I think is like probably a better movie Than I gave it credit for I had just loved the original British version so much So, yeah, the eagle is Channing Tatum and Jamie Bell as, like, Roman, he's a Roman centurion, and, like, Jamie Bell is his, like, boy slave, which, like, you know, could have gone campier, and it wasn't, it's played, it's played sort of, like, very disappointingly straight up and down, which is kind of dumb because, like, Channing Tatum is a Roman centurian and Jamie Bell is his slave. sure right yeah looking at channing tatem's filmography a little bit you also have to wonder if this retreat that we're talking about is a little bit exhaustion based because like he sure he's done a lot of voice work too and a lot of cameos and such but like he has an insane amount of credits too like we've forgotten a lot of these movies but like how many credits does he have 2009 there's three only two for 2010 I think that's what also contributes to making the lower output since double XL sort of stand out more. He just wants to take a break, probably.

Very possibly, but yeah, he's like throughout his rise, he was constantly working. And we don't really recognize that because we forget these movies. Yeah. And one of those movies that he's barely in is Haywire, which, um, wait, sorry, I want to back up. It's not Dear John that I think he has the gratuitous butt shot.

I think it's another 2012 movie, which everybody's forgotten called The Vow, which is him and Rachel McAdams in a romantic drama. I don't even think it's a comedy. I think it's like... Yes. Is that the amnesia movie? There's some type of amnesia. Right.

That's what it is. She gets into a car accident and she can't remember anything. and he tries to like get her to remember him and she can't and then she ends up like going and moving on to this other guy but like obviously they're meant to be together and yeah it's a whole thing it is not a very good movie was a big hit but i think it's a bum bum uh movie for him for channing tavern for sure and again same year 2012 so even like what a great year what a great year for channing tatum and for all of us truly Yes.

I don't know. I mean, like, yeah, like, that's not really a movie that I think has stuck in the consciousness even though it's like we don't really have many of those movies anymore. Oh, that movie has completely disappeared. And it made a ton of money. He's also, so it's like his career's kind of filled with those. And he's also a lot of, like, he'll just, like, sort of, like, show up for a cameo. Basically, that's him in the Lego movies.

It's just like, yeah, I'll voice Superman for, like, a scene and a half. But also, remember him in Don John. where he's in the movie within a movie in Don John, him and... With Anne Hathaway? Anne Hathaway. Yeah. Essentially doing like a Nicholas Sparks movie trailer, right? Yeah.

That's funny. That was a good part of that movie. That movie is... puts up a lot of barriers to liking it. Including like Joseph Gordon Levitt in one of his movies where he's just like, I'm going to do a voice. Like him in Snowden for whatever reason, he's just like, I'm going to do a voice. I never saw Snowden.

Yeah, even, like, the good things about it are kind of repulsive. Like, Scarlett Johansson is incredible in that movie, but even she is kind of doing a bit. Scarlet Johansson playing her Marble Colum's character from Saturday Night Live in that movie, but she's so much fun. Like, I kind of love her in that movie. Julianne Moore, like, fully showing up to that movie. To be, like, the, like, the moral center of that movie. Yeah, like, showing up to be, like, the supporting actress nominee. of that movie for this like very like weird plot I don't know like it Don John's almost a movie I want

to watch again now and just be like what do I make of it seven years later right right so strange all right let's move on from Channing Tatum because we could talk about him all day I want to talk about and the jury remains out we we hope he comes back soon I really do hope he comes back soon I really am a big fan I have been for a while uh Stephen Soderberg is a big part of the reason why Magic Mike had Oscar buzz, although the thing about Magic Mike's Oscar buzz is I think it it didn't arrive until people saw it. And I think that is kind of rare for a movie that a lot of people saw coming down the pike. Do you know what I mean? Like usually a movie that doesn't get Oscar buzz until people have seen it is like an indie, something at Sundance, something

that's like really unknown. Whereas like this, everybody, like this, the production of this movie was pretty well covered because when you say Channing Tatum is making a movie about his own past as an exotic dancer. Steven Soderberg. Well, that's the thing. And then all of a sudden Soderberg hops on because Tatum initially the production of this movie is

kind of interesting because he had been talking sort of privately and like private conversations about maybe wanting to write this movie, to make this movie of sort of the story of his life in these male strip clubs. And

wanted Nicholas Winding Refen to direct it and it just like never I know can you imagine what that movie would have turned out to be how like weirdly like Can you imagine like the drug subplots in this movie under Nicholas Winding Refn? It would be like Alex Petifur would get his face peeled off it would be what well when he's so he's shopping

this movie around a little bit and there was a lot of different ways that other filmmakers wanted to do And, like, a lot of them really wanted to, like, amp up the scusiness, the drugginess, the sort of, like, I'm sure there was probably would have been, like, a kidnapping some plot somewhere. And, like, you have to, like, shoot your way out of a thing. Or, like, at the very least, some sort of, like, boogie nights thing. We're, like, we're in over our heads and someone's going to die. I like that this movie didn't go there. There was also, apparently, someone had approached them with, like, almost a musical version of this. Well, they want to make a musical of this on Broadway, which, of course they will be. It's such an obvious idea. If Broadway ever recovers, they need to make a Magic Mike musical. Coming in 2023 to the Niederlander Theater, Magic Mike, the musical starring.

Truly, it'll save us all. Yeah. Starring, yeah, who would that be starring? I mean, God, take your pick. Everybody on Broadway is fucking jacked as hell. It's crazy. It basically just be Broadway Bears. Yes, essentially.

And honestly, we deserve it. We need it. Sure. Sure, sure, sure. But so then... I hope it's a genuine jukebox musical, I just got to say. Yeah. But then so Channing Tatum takes this really small role in Haywire,

which was supposed to be Soderberg's last movie before he retired, and I'm making sarcastic air quotes because, like, retirement. Do you ever see people mourning Daniel Day Lewis's retirement on Twitter and just want to laugh? Right, exactly. It's like Paul Thomas Anderson will just write another role for him. What does retirement mean? It means you're waiting. Like, Daniel Day Lewis isn't a movie every year kind of a person anyway.

Like, he's waiting for the next movie that will draw him out of retirement. Sure, sure, sure. So to burn. Didn't the boxer, wasn't the boxer even, like, looped up in that? Like, the boxer was supposed to be his last role. I don't know. I'm committed to mentioning The Boxer every week on this podcast, because we really do keep bringing it up.

The Boxer. But the thing about Channing Tatum in the lead up to this movie is it was kind of a little bit more, sold to us purely on Channing Tatum and like learning about his backstory and all of this or like this instead of it being this weird factoid that he used to be a stripper or like something that would be an angle on like you know interviews or something right it like kind of dove into that in this purient way and people almost kind of forgot wait this is a Soderberg stripper movie well that's the thing and so I just the interesting thing about it is that Tatum takes this small role in Haywire. He essentially gets like one scene in Haywire. It's supposed to be Sodaberg's last movie. And apparently somebody at a Q&A at a talkback for Haywire

was just like, is there anything that would you know, will bring you back to directing? And he said, yeah, Channing Tatum's stripper story. I would do that. And apparently Channing Tatum like saw that and was just like, ring, hello, and like, and they decided to make this. But so because it was

this stripper movie, I think we talked a little bit about this with burlesque where like when burlesque was announced and it was like share christina aguilera in a movie called burlesk and everybody just sort of just like laughed at the premise but we're like super interested and i think that was the same thing with magic mike where it was just like oh the channing tamestripper movie that's going to be like wild but i don't think anybody expected it to be good or like great and then sodaberg jumps on and everybody's like hmm i don't know what to make of this but sodaberg's career you know is sort of loosey-goosey enough from the promotion of this movie at the same time too

because it was so actively pursuing like 25 to 55 year old women for its audience in terms of like look at all these hot dudes the posters just like them stripping to the point that like a lot of people showed up for this movie and thought that there would be more stripping or I think even at the time if you read like interviews and stuff like that I think Tatum was just like or when they're making

when they're doing the interviews for double XL, one of the things Tatum says is just like, I think double XL is the movie that a lot of people thought that Magic Mike was going to be, where a lot of people showed up and just wanted it to be like, Mamma Mia, here we go again, but with

mail strippers, which is sort of just like, you know, of crowd-pleasing extravaganza. And then you see Magic Mike, and it's just like, oh, this is very decidedly a Steven Soderberg movie. And I think some audiences were probably disappointed by that, but I critics loved that. And the movie still made a ton of money. So all of a sudden, you have this

movie, Steven Soderberg directed it. Obviously, Steven Soderberg's a Oscar winning best director. He's an Oscar unicorn. He's nominated twice in Best Director, which never happens. And he wins for traffic. And so we've talked about before, about how if you are a director who is stamped with the approval of a Best Director win, the rest of your career is sort of viewed through that lens, at least expectationally. But Soderberg spends essentially the better part, or over a decade, really, between 2000 and 2012, really almost like actively shunning the idea of Oscar buzz

where he either makes these really crowd-pleaser Oceans movies. And even the Oceans movies, the second one is trying to be a French farce. So, like, it's not, like, Oceans 11 is a pure popcorn crowd-pleaser perfect movie. But then I think the rest of his 2000s, the rest of his aughts, are, I would say, intentionally going against the idea of making Oscar bait. Maybe with the exception of, and it's not Oscar bait because it was TV, but I would say maybe the exception being behind the candelabra. Right. And Candelabra isn't until what year? That's 2013, same year. Right, so... Or no, next year.

Yeah, next year. Right. So I think, but I think if you're talking about that space between 2000 and 2012, where it's like, let me just sort of like run it down because it's kind of fascinating. Oceans 11 in 2001, then downshifts to full frontal and Solaris in 2002. Like, you could not have... Solaris, one of the most loudly hated movies of my lifetime. Full frontal was like, famously one of the first ones to be shot digitally.

and he's got these huge stars. That's the worst wig. That's the thing. It's like he's casting Julia Roberts. He's casting George Clooney in these like almost actively anti-crowd pleaser movies. They're so like full front. Full frontal I kind of hate. Full frontal looks like garbage.

And it's just like this collection of name actors being kind of repulsive and awful. Yeah, like it's kind of vignettes. I don't think I could tell you what that movie is. about. Solaris is at least wonderful and gorgeous and, like, again, Clooney's in that.

Cluny Booty. Natasha McElhouns in that movie. Viola Davis. Yeah, Clooney Booty. Good job. Good call. But again, you're right.

Like, cinema scores like F-minus. Like, everybody hates Solaris. Oceans 12, as I said, is Ocean's 11, but what if it's a French forest? It's so stylized. I really didn't like it at first. I'm willing to probably give it

another shot because everybody kind of is like oh it's the best oceans movie i think they're wrong but whatever um bubble pure you know experimental sort of good german i guess is probably oscar buzzy but even still his version of oscar buzz is like let's do a super stylized black and white casablanca this is what i was going to say about some of these is that like even the ones that would qualify as oscar buzz and good german is a score nominee i believe you're right i think you're right so like that's a movie we couldn't talk about. But it's absolutely one that we can talk about as an exception.

Because, like, it does, you know, it typifies that kind of, you know, expectations versus results thing that we talked about. Anything that falls under, like, Oscar buzz type of things, like, there's something about the movie that is so actively working against that happening. Yeah. Or, like, things that were predicted. It was, like, we predicted that until we saw the movie. And, like, I think of the informant is a good example of that.

The Shay movies that are coming out that it's like, of course, a Che Guevara biopic makes perfect sense, but it's like five hours long, split into two movies. Right. It's so long that it has to be split into two, two hour plus movies. Informant in 09, the girlfriend experience back to like experimental, whatever. He makes them for no money. Right, no money stars an actual porn star. Haywire in 2011, which it's just, I think 2011 is he's creeping back to making movies that are like crowd-pleaser movies. They're not exactly like, it's not like he's pandering, but I think both Haywire and Contagion in 2011, which are both very good movies, are him sort of like creeping back into like, oh, I'm going to make movies that people would plausibly pay money to see in a theater. I mean, it probably helps him still get the funding for his more experimental.

things. Totally. And that's supposed to be the end, right? He makes a big deal about how this is the end. And then Magic Mike is the bonus movie. And he keeps sort of like, he makes Candelabra, as you said, in 13, and side effects in 13. And then he really does, with the exception of making the Nick on television, he's out of movie theaters for four years before Logan Lucky and whatever.

But Magic Mike is such an interesting. it's such a Soderberg movie. Like, for as much as it is, the Channing Tatum stripper movie, and as much as it becomes the Matthew McConaissance, like the McConaissance lynchpin, it's still, you watch it today, and it's so very much a Sodaberg movie. It's thoughtful and it's, um, stylized, but in this, like, not really ostentatious way, but it's like, it doesn't give you this kind of, um, bright, gleaming, you know, you came here to watch strippers, and that's the whole show.

There's so much of this movie that isn't the stripping scenes. I think, I would say, for good or ill, I think double XL being the much more straightforward, this is the stripper movie you came to see, as I think a big part of the reason why a lot of people like it better than match. I think there's still more going on in double XL than it just being the stripper movie that you want to see. But I think what works so well with Magic Mike, the original, in relation to the Soderberg thing,

is like everything that is going on thematically in this movie, it doesn't really feel like Soderberg is spoon-feeding it to you. No, I agree with that. To kind of just, like, lay it down and you can pick it up or not. Yeah, so... I think there... Go ahead. I was going to say, and it's not just like the scenes that

Why is Soderberg making everything yellow? But it does feel kind of like of a piece with the Contagents, with the Oceans 11 movies. I mean, it feels like a lesser version of Aaron Brockovich to me a little bit. Like if this was a more expressive lead character who could kind of like had some self-awareness about his circumstance before the end of the movie, it could be a little bit more impactful. I still feel like... I like this movie a lot more than when I first saw it,

but I still feel a little bit at, like, arms length in that it's not always the most satisfying movie that it could be. I think Magic Mike is Aaron Brockovich if the Aaron character

is the Ed Masary character in that, like... Because Dallas is your Aaron, right? Dallas is... Right. Outrageous and kind of like full of it, but also, you know... The battering ram.

Right. Whereas, like, Mike is almost the Ed Masry, and that, like, he's not the boss, but he's the one who's, like, nose to the grindstone, like, check in, check out. I've got, you know, ambitions to make this bigger and don't fuck this up for me, essentially. It's also... This is, like, unlike Aaron Brockovich,

this is kind of a hard movie to, like, place any emotion on. right? Like, Aaron Brockovich, to me, is such an emotional movie. Whereas, like, you know, this is a movie that deals with the fallout of the financial crisis in a lot of interesting ways. But, like, it never really feels like a human story to me. And maybe it doesn't want to be or need to be. But, like, I don't know. For me, like...

I think because it invests a lot of that human story in the Alex Pedifer character, who is kind of a dud as played by pedifer. Like, I don't think he's an anchor dragging this movie down. But I think because Mike has to sort of share protagonist duties with Adam, we don't really see a ton of Adam on his own sort of, like, dealing with shit. Once he sort of starts to, like, fall off, he becomes as much an impediment to Mike as sort of, you know, as Dallas or as anything else. And I think that the movie doesn't have as much faith in Adam as, say, Mike does,

and, like, is very clear that, like, Mike is anchoring himself to a sinking ship right away, that, like, this is a guy who's not going to go anywhere, and it's, like, I don't know, it doesn't, it's not, I don't want to say comfortable to watch, but, like, it feels a little tedious to me. But just putting the button on Soderberg for a second, I think because, it's, I think because he's him, once the movie, once the movie arrives and critics like it, and it makes a lot of money, I think it's, I think it's Soderberg's presence there that allows the movie to sort of like transition into whatever Oscar buzz it had. Because all of a sudden, this is a good movie from an Oscar winning director, and it's just like, okay, and now all of a sudden. That made money. Right, and it made money, and now all of a sudden, and it wasn't really buzzed in a whole lot of areas, but where it was buzzed was, uh, Matthew, McConaughey in a campaign for Best Supporting Actor. It obviously didn't work out, but the timing on this could not have been more perfect because, hello, 2012, is the epicenter of the McConaissance. The loved, long-departed by now, McConaissance. And it's something that had been, sort of, the seeds had

been planted in 2011. 2011 is when both Bernie and Killer Joe make the festival, circuit. Bernie had played the Los Angeles Film Festival, the London Film Festival, and then South by Southwest in early 2012, Killer Joe had done Venice and Tiff in 2011, and then also was at South by Southwest in 2012. Both of

those movies end up opening wide 2012, as does the Paperboy. And then at Cannes that year, he's in mud, Jeff Nichols' mud, which is another one where he really pops. I think

Bernie is really the, well, the paper boy and Bernie are movies where he doesn't, he's not the story. He's sort of, you know, it's supplemental material, but I think But he's still doing good work that feels like of a piece. Right. Well, and it's also, it's, you know, it

accumulates by a magnitude, right? Where all of a sudden, if it was any one of these things, it would be, you know, that would be one thing. But the fact that it's all five of these movies, within probably a 15-month period and it's just like oh shit like this is you know this is a thing that is happening and the lincoln lawyer was sort of famously a precursor to this where the lincoln lawyer seemed on its surface to just be like mccaneh making another you know cash grab movie or

whatever and then he's good and it was a modest hit people liked him in it and it was a modest hit and all of a sudden i think there was the ground was a little fertile for the idea of oh maybe we can, you know, start appreciating McConaughey again. And then it's these, this five movie Bonanza in 2011, 2012. And all of a sudden, it's just like, oh, isn't it great that Matthew McConaughey, A, seems to give a shit again. And B, is getting all these really interesting roles. And the, the epicenter of this is Magic Mike, because it is, A, not only the best role of all of them, and the best performance of all of them, but it is a role that feels tailor-made for McConaughey himself he

put so much of the very first thing you hear of him he's sort of off stage they're in the dressing room and you hear him on stage going all right all right all right like it's he brings so much of him to it it's just like what if Matthew McConaughey got fucking snatched

which he does for this movie and um he decided to be a leopard thong and everything about this character is so smartly realized

that scene towards the end where he's on the stage with the acoustic guitar and the like Tiki Torch is the only light on stage and he's singing the song that he obviously wrote himself that Dallas obviously

Ladies of Tampa famously Oscar eligible original song Ladies of Tampa truly robbed that it didn't get nominated I'm still so pissed genuinely better than all but one of its nominees

that year. Certainly better than the fucking lay miss song that they had did you remember when they performed the Laymiss song on the Oscars that year and it was just like everybody you could feel America rushing to the bathrooms it was so like such a dud such a non-entity Jesus Christ this was a year they didn't perform all of the songs right what won that year one of the years skyfall oh right skyfall's great like yeah skyfall a song from ted performed by norah jones called everybody needs a best friend was performed life of pie had pies lullaby and then the other

from a documentary another J. Ralph nominated song from Chasing Ice before my time performed by Scarlett Johansett but not on the Oscars, which is too bad. Could you imagine if Matthew McConaughey

had not been nominated but was nominated for for Ladies of Tampa and performed it on the Oscars? Honestly, that should have opened that Oscars. Matthew McConaug in a leopard thong performing Ladies of Tampa.

It would have redeemed so much about that year's Oscars famously hosted by Seth McFour Who is awful. But that scene towards the end where he's playing that song, I was just like, man, this movie really gets this character, the self-aggrandizement, the weird, like the intense commitment to his job, which is very admirable of him. But also, just like, can you imagine dealing with a personality like this? This is why I brought up the Tiger King thing in the beginning. It's just like, because Tiger King, you watch that series and you're just like, how does anybody deal with any of these people in their real?

lives. Like, how would you even, like, maintain a conversation with these people who are constantly talking themselves up and, and hustling you on whatever, like, big, big dreams, big plans they have next? And it's the one moment in the movie where I really feel like I'm on Cody Horn's side. I know her character's name is Brooke, but whatever, um, is when they're at the sandbar party, and he's sort of like, he's going on and on about how, what did he say, where he's going to teach his children the stock market. I'm going to teach my, when I have kids, I'm going to teach my children the stock market and they're going to be brilliant and

rich. And she's just looking at him and she's just like, I want to meet your kids one day. But it's just like totally judging him and totally like kind of repulsed by him. And it's just like, yeah, that's how I, that's completely how I would have reacted to that. Because like, you're so full of shit.

Well, here's one of the things that I think makes, especially this performance so good and like, kind of a little bit of a pivot for Matthew McConaughey, but the thing that we also don't really talk about most of the roles of the McConaissance is that he's a scumbum, really? And, like, a lot of those roles were where they have, like, even for, like, the characters that you root for are kind of dubious guys. But, like, this one's, I think, the best of this era of performance for him, because he's playing a villain.

And it maybe takes you, at least through the end of the first actor. or maybe the second act of the movie to realize that he is the movie's villain. Right, right. And he does that so well. So it's like, it's even more, like, this one felt like capitalizing on what our perception of Matthew McConaughey was at the time.

This was after him, like, showing up naked, playing bongos on somebody's porch. But also being, like, a stoner, while at the same time, like, a lust figure for a lot of women. And also, he had that string of, bad romantic comedies where it was like how to lose a guy in 10 days and failure to launch and fools gold and all this sort of stuff where it's just like it it was a bad fit for him like I don't think what was the one he did with Jennifer Lopez god speaking of the nexus of

fantastic stripper performers in the 2000s but what was that movie was it the wedding planner yes right so where it's just like and this is what like the crucial ingredient and like why Matthew McConaughey has like straight away from it what is missing again is this like undertone of darkness to it um to what he's doing that like kind of makes everything work and like I know that some people are fans of the beach bomb I have not seen the beach bomb no nor have I and like he did play the outright devil in the abomination that was the dark tower also didn't see that but also he is or the better um but something like serenity i think fits in exactly perfectly with the maconnasons movies kind of yeah i mean like he's committed to

what that banana's movie is yeah yeah um he's not a scumbum in that movie but there's a lot of his bum bum in that movie is he more naked in serenity or in Magic Mike when he's doing the splits in a thong. So my thing, and I sort of brought this up with regards to Tatum earlier, for whatever reason, I view the stripper nudity in this movie almost

like it doesn't count. I know that's like dumb and like not how things work. But like it's so commodified and so much like and also there's that thing which is like, everybody is all like bronzed and everybody's all like oiled up

and whatever. And it's all just this like you know, burlesque, but like literally, of, you know, of masculinity, that I'm just like, it's so silly. This is why... There's a distant, like, whenever there are naked bodies on screen on a stage, there's like a distance to the way that it is shot, that it's like, it doesn't feel like the camera's objectifying that, and maybe because this is a movie with like naked men shot by straight men, I don't know, but like... But I also feel like... Because this movie is sexy, but I think the sexiest parts of this movie are the dancing.

And I know that feels like such like highfalutin, like, fancy schmance. I'm not trying to be better than anybody. If like the literal nudity does it for you in a stripper context, fucking go for it. But what I'm thinking is like that opening, that shot in the opening number where Channing Tatum steps to the front of the stage and starts like humping the floor. is so a the movie literally like catches fire at that moment like it's I'm surprised like an electric

current doesn't jump off the screen at that point because it's such a great just like get fucking ready moment and also it's so sexy it's just incredibly sexy but it doesn't feel like they're being ogled by like the way Soderberg is shooting the movie the way that like say the

audience is ogling and the audience's desire for them is so um a feels accurate but B has this tinge of humor to it because it's so over the top and everybody is just sort of like trying to like grab at them and paw at them and whatever and because you know the dynamics of it the you know whatever gender dynamics of it are as such that like you never feel like these men are in danger so it's just like it's just pure enjoyment it's pure entertainment and I think all of the stripping scenes are so creatively done and and feel realistic but also just like all the music is perfectly chosen all of the like the concepts whether it's like tarzan or you know doing his like man in the jungle thing even the stuff you

only see like we never see the full tarzan number but just the sight of that like rope hanging from the state i was just like you can see what the whole concept is or just you know i don't know it's this is maybe where you lose me on the sexiness of it because like there's a cornyness of it that is so accurate to like the world they're presenting and maybe it's just like Soderberg anticepticism but like that is very not sexy thing oh I know I agree with the whole it's raining men number where they're in like trench coats and doing like half as choreo I'm not saying that stuff is sexy I'm saying that stuff is really clever and well just well done oh yeah yeah yeah yeah and and entertaining like it's super entertaining even if I don't

find the its reigning men number, you know, sexy again, until Channing starts humping the floor. But also the fact that, like, Channing Tatum is a phenomenal dancer, and the movie knows it, and the movie deploys that at, you know, opportune times. And that, to me, is the sexiest, or the sexiest parts of the movie. Oh, I mean, well, yeah, that's maybe one of the things that I like more about double XL is not more stripping, but more dancing. Here's the thing about Magic Mike Double XL, which initially, I think I sort of...

Which we shouldn't get too in depth with, because who knows eventually we could talk about that movie. I suppose we could. I wanted to watch it before we did this just to, like, get the full experience of it. Maybe I'll watch it later today. I think I initially bristled at this, like, the initial reaction to Magic MacDxL where everybody was just like, better than the first best movie of the year, blah, blah, blah. I think there was a lot of, like, a hipster irony to the way some something. critics sort of embraced double XL.

Every time I think about it, I smile. Everything, everything about it, I think, is really, really good. And the thing, what I love about Magic Mike, XXL is I imagine, you know, Channing Tatum and whoever else in a room trying to figure out how, you know, what to do for a sequel. And somebody just sort of throws out, oh, let's make it a road trip movie. And it's like, yes, let's make it a road trip movie. Why are they going on a road trip? And I just imagine somebody just being like a stripper convention and just be like, yeah.

And it's like, is that a thing? Who the fuck knows? But it's a stripper convention is so dumb and perfect. That's why that movie is a sab. Very much in the way that, like you said, Mamma Mia, here we go again, where it's like we've been, especially in the summertime, we've been delivered like a decade of over seriousness where it's like, let's just have stupid earnest. shit and like that can be enough. Also, you know how Cold Mountain is really the Odyssey because it's like

like their little vignettes about him like encountering. He'll encounter Philip Seymour Hoffman and he'll encounter Natalie Portman and whatever. And Magic Mike Double XL feels that way too. It's just like every scene is a new like fortress along the road to Myrtle Beach where the fuck they're going.

It's a side quest movie. It's Andy McDowell's house. It's Jada Pinkett's realm. And it's almost video game-esque in that way, too, where it's just sort of like, and now we're at level seven, which is this weird house party that seems to be going on at all times. Like, all right, now we'll conquer that level. And again, the end point is a stripper convention at Myrtle Beach. It's so fucking funny. Anyway, McConaughey, I think I tend to fixate on the fact that he didn't get the Oscar nomination. He got a lot of precursors. Maybe

more than I remembered. Big ones. The Independent Spirit Award, which he won that year, which I want to read the field for that that year. 2012 Independent Spirit Awards,

because that was, for a while there, the Independent Spirit Awards really became like Oscars Light. And I think it's not all the fault of the Independent Spirit Awards. I think the Oscars got more indie in the 2000s anyway. So I think there was a lot of, like,

meeting in the middle. But, like, this year at the Independent Spirit Awards, like, Silver Linings Playbook basically swept. And, like, that was already an Oscar movie. So, like, that's not interesting. And in terms of their nominations, too, the nominated, they have a crazy long period between nominations and their actual award ceremony. So the nominations happen early in the season. And it feels like, not like they're trying, they don't feel like an awards body that's necessarily trying to predict the Oscars, but it does feel like this is where we think the rest of the season is going to play out

in relation to independent film. In some ways. I think this year's... Finger quotes independent film of a certain budget. This year's Indy Spirit Awards 2012 is a real interesting mix of that kind of thing that you're talking about, where it's Silver Linings Playbook and Beasts of the Southern Wild and Moonrise Kingdom, because for a while

there are people thought Moonrise Kingdom was going to be a Best Picture nominee. It has some... The Sessions. before the sessions faded away. Yes, it nominates Bruce Willis for supporting mail in Moonrise Kingdom, which I think is so funny because, like, that's the standout performance for you in that movie, is Bruce Willis?

Okay. He's not, so McConaughey is the only nomination for Magic Mike. Magic Mike, by the way, is a Warner Brothers movie. Like, it's not a, it's a small budget movie, which is, I think, where I think the... They made it for $7 million, which for Soderberg these days, is like extravagant. Right. But for as sort of like

glitzy, glamorous as some of these like stipper scenes are, sometimes it's just like, oh, it's interesting that it's, you know, $7 million movie, but it's fully not from an independent studio at all. Anyway, he beats out David O'Yellow in Middle of Nowhere, the Ava DuVernay movie that

for me put her on the map. She's so... Talk about a sexy movie. It's such a fantastic movie. That also nominated that year in lead actress was Emiazzi, Ornaldi, who is the lead of Middle of Nowhere, who rocks, and Lorraine Touss as supporting female. And great set of nominees.

Like, the fact that they recognize that movie to that extent is fantastic. Michael Pena for End of Watch, the movie with him and Jake Jeline Hall, that got really great reviews. Sam Rockwell for Seven Psychopaths, the original Rockwell, Martin McDonough, joint. And as I mentioned, Bruce Willis from Moonrise Kingdom. so nobody in that category was Oscar nominated and I think that's when you know the spirits are able to just sort of like do interesting things and not really because normally if you have like four people who aren't nominated for the Oscar that year and one who is that one who is will usually win if only because they've just had more attention like there's just like you know if you don't have any strong feelings either way you just sort of like you know that's where your attention's going and And another thing is, too, about the Independent Spirit Awards, if you pay to become a film independent member,

you can vote on these awards, like, if you want to shill out the money for it. But, like, that's one of the reasons why I think their actual winners lean more populist. I think that's true, which is kind of a bummer, because what the best thing that the Independent Spirit Awards do is, for me at least, is introduce me to movies that I might not have already seen. And you still see that in the 2013. 12 nominations at some point. Like Julia Lockdev gets a best director nomination for the loneliest planet.

I wouldn't have seen the loneliest planet if that hadn't gotten independent spirit award nomination. So like that's very cool. It's interesting to me that this is, that, uh, Iris Sacks was nominated this year for Keep the Lights on. It's the only best director nomination he's gotten at the Spirits. And that's wild to me because I like Keep the Lights on, but it is absolutely the least of his

directorial efforts for me like when you compare it to And he's had Best Picture nominees with them before because I'm pretty sure Love is Strange

was Best Picture at the film I think you're right at the film spirits yeah Yeah but like yeah Love is strange

is a better movie Little Men is a better movie and I don't know it's just interesting but they're one of the charms I think of the spirits is that kind of

no rhyme or reason thing it's tough to it's tough to you know anticipate them or figure them out. McConaughey, though, was nominated for Magic Mike, as I said, and also Killer Joe in the lead category.

Killer Joe is not a movie that I love. McConaughey's good in it, and that's fine. But he wins for Magic Mike, rightly so. I think it's a great acknowledgement of the fact that it was one of the, like, definitional performances of that year. He has a very sort of, like, good and, you know, nice acceptance speech. I think that went a long way towards laying the groundwork for him having the awards run in 2013 when he ends up winning the Oscar for Dallas Byers Club.

But he also wins New York Film Critics Circle, supporting actor. He wins National Society of Film Critics for Supporting Actor. And then doesn't even get a Golden Globe nomination for Magic Mike, which I think is strange just because he's a star. Don't they like stars? Didn't they nominate him for Tropic Thunder? That was Tom Cruise, right? Yes.

I'm kind of curious. I should look this up and see what the Warner Brothers movies were that year because I do think this kind of goes back. And the same is true for Contagion a little bit. Soderberg doesn't want to play the Oscar game anymore. He doesn't want to do anything. So it's like those movies do not get pushed. So it's like if Warner Brothers has something else that they can promote for Oscar or push for Oscar,

that's what they're going to lean into because like Magic Mike could have had a mightier campaign to say the least. And Contagion, like they didn't campaign that movie until the very end of that Oscar cycle when like all of their contenders kind of bottomed out with critics and audiences. but like I think that's one of the reasons because if anything Magic Mike should have been a Best Picture Comedy nominee I don't you think I don't know if I would agree with that I think it's much more dramatic than it is comedic I don't know you have a lot of the I mean like yes towards the end of the movie sure

but like I don't know you have the scene I almost define it as a musical more than a comedy I think, yeah, that's, I still would, I still would probably bristle at the idea of it as a comedy, but, I mean, you're not wrong that it, you know, is a genre blend in there. I wonder what IMDB, what marks, IMDB says comedy, comedy drama, so. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's complicated, but, like, you would see them campaigning it as a comedy, right? Yes, and I would probably bitch about it. probably how it would go. But, like, if they had really actively pushed it, I mean, we could probably look up what they did submit it as.

It wouldn't have made a difference for McConaug, though, because McConaughey is still going to be in supporting, and they don't differentiate comedy and drama. But it seems like the type of movie that if a major precursor is going to go for, it would be the Globes, is what I think I'm getting at. Yeah, yeah, that's probably true. Who was he nominated against, I'm looking up who he was not, nominated against with Critics' Choice because they nominate six sometimes.

So that was the year, while you look that up, that was the year famously that all five supporting actor nominees at the Oscar were, at the Oscars were previous Oscar winners. That was Christoph Waltz, who won for Django Unchained, De Niro for Silver Linings Playbook, Ellen Arkin for Argo, Philip Seymour Hoffman in The Master, and Tommy Lee Jones, who would have been my vote in Lincoln. at the Globes, they didn't nominate DeNiro, but they did nominate Leonardo DiCaprio for Django because you can't get enough of that incredible discomfort of them nominating both of the white actors in Django Unchained. And I remember thinking at the time, oh, if the Globe nominees end up being the Oscar nominees, you've got four previous winners and then DeCaprio, who had famously never won. I think if DiCaprio gets nominated for the Oscar, I think he probably wins.

even with the internal competition with Christop Faultz. I even wonder if Samuel L. Jackson had been nominated, if Samuel L. Jackson would have finally won. He's probably my favorite performance in that movie that I don't like. I don't know there, yeah. But, yeah, I think it's a powerful motivator when you have four people who have already won and then one who hasn't. And so it doesn't shake out that way.

because it's five former winners, I think that really allows them to just be like, well, we like Christoph Waltz and we like that character, so let's vote for him. And all of a sudden now Christophealt has two Oscars and everybody is just like, what? In a cosmic sense.

I think it makes sense that year because that was a, two Oscars for Tarantino movies. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's just like, that's even, you know, the other, I think it's always, it's an interesting thing that we have these double Oscar winners who a lot of people are just like,

huh, I would have never put that person in the realm of somebody who needs multiple Oscars. Like Blanchett makes sense as a double Oscar winner. Streep as a three-timer, yes. But like Hillary Swank, Renee Zellweger, Sally Field, even though I love Sally Field. But it's strange that Sally Field has two Oscars. It's only because of places in the heart that people feel that way. Her second Oscar could have been for Lincoln, if you ask me. Sure.

But I just think, I think cosmically, when you're just like, name the like, elite actresses, I feel like you don't... I don't think Sally Field is weird to have to. Okay. I don't, like, trust me, I love Sally Field, but what I'm saying is, like, it's not like you go, like, you know, Hepburn, Streep, Field. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's not quite that.

Even Jody Foster, I think, is an odd person to have two. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I think the Jody Foster and Sally Field thing is that they don't actually have as many movie credits as you think they might. And that's probably why it feels that way. And the other thing is, all of those doubles happen within a generally short time frame, right? Yes. We're like, Foster wins within three years.

It's like, I guess it's maybe, what would that be, like, one year or two years different than, like, Kate Blanchett has. But, like, she has one in supporting one in lead. So it's like both of her Oscars feel different. Blanchet was nine years apart, whereas, like, Valtz was three. So, like, yeah, it's a, yeah, it's a difference. that's a yeah like that's a that year of everybody already being nominated

and like how other people how people felt about the movies at large in that category was strange it was a lot of people that like we weren't really willing to I'm thinking of De Niro and Alan Arkin where it's like we're not probably going to give

that movie an Oscar for this you know like the can I jump back to independent spirit for like half a second because I wanted to shout out... Yeah, and then I'll do the supporting actor-critics choice one. I wanted to shout out the supporting female nominees at that year's Spirit Awards because Helen Hunt wins for the sessions, but like I think this... Honestly, this field could have been my own top five.

With like, I liked Helen Hunt. Probably wouldn't have made my top five, but it's also Rosemary DeWitt and your sister-sister. Fucking love that movie, and I love Rosemary DeWitt. And Dowd and Compliance famously ran her own campaign that year. is amazing in that movie that was the first thing I had certainly wasn't the first thing I had seen And Out in

because if you go back Ann Dowd is like the Jack Nicholson in the shining of actresses where it's just like you go back through all the old photos and she's there

which I guess is also what happens in Hereditary is you go back to all the old photos and Ann Dowd's there but her career is like that too where it's just like wait a second

Ann Dowd is in this movie and out is great in Philadelphia she's always been there she's you know look around your look around you, and she's always been there. Britt Marling and Sound of My Voice, you know how much I love

Britt Marling, and you know how much I love Sound of my voice. I love this. No, Reed, noted Brit Marling Stan. I love this nomination so much. She's so good and creepy and off-putting in this movie. And then, as I mentioned, Lorraine Toussaint and Middle of Nowhere, like, if I bring up my, which I'm going to do, my own list that year, I bet you at least three of those women are on my list.

Lorraine Toussaint would be a great winner in that category Oh, I think she might have been mine that year Like she's so phenomenal in that movie That is an actress who Again, Lorraine Toussons also that was just like She's been in everything Like you've seen her in 8 billion things And that's a movie

Eight billion things Probably most famous for the second season Of Orange Is the New Black for playing Right Was it second season or like the third season? No, it was the second season Where she played V Yeah, she was the big villain in that

but like she had been like someone's mom or someone's wife in so many movies and finally she gets this like and again she's the mom in middle of nowhere but it's such a juicy role okay so my god it's so chaotic my list for 2012 supporting actress because again I'm a dork who keeps track of this Lorraine Toussaint nominee middle of nowhere and Dowd nominee compliance Britt Marling is my winner shut up and then I also have have Sarah Silverman. I love you so much. Sarah Silverman and Take This Waltz.

Oh, yes. And then not a winner, but could have been, Salma Hayek and Savages. Let me remind you that if I had to, I wouldn't have a problem cutting both their throats. Truly my most chaotic year ever. You do ride hard for Salma Hyac and Savages. I'm sorry, that's a bulletproof list as far as I'm concerned. I don't have my list pulled up, but I can guarantee you my list would be way more

boring um oh i'm sure it would be interesting but like that's a great year for supporting actress like that's amy adams Oscar nominee for the master great Jennifer ely is your dark 30 great um why do we have a net bending in ruby sparks that's really funny unlike my long list that's so like she's good in that i don't even remember her in that movie she's um is she maybe one of their mothers i know she and like Antonio banderas have like a relationship in that movie which is like kind of amazing Oh, God, Ila Fisher and Bachelorette, which I would stand up for today. I think Ila Fisher's so good at Bachelorette. Anyway, you were looking up something while I was running my mouth about the...

I was going to mention the supporting actor lineup from Critics Choice. Christoph Waltz, not the Oscar nominee or Oscar winner, not even nominated. That's probably because Janko and Chain was such a late arrival. It was, yeah, it was Best Picture nominated with Critics Choice, but not a whole lot of nominations elsewhere, probably because they saw it very, very late. Their winner was Philip Seymour Hoffman, also nominated Alan Arkin, Robert De Niro, Tommy Lee Jones from the Oscar lineup. So all the Oscar nominees, except for the eventual winner, was nominated at Critics' Choice. Their other two...

So there was five? Oh, there were two, okay. No, there were six. Their other two was Matthew McConaughey for Magic Mike, and then the one who I think was probably sixth place for the Oscar lineup is Javier Bardem for Skype. fall oh so you think he would have been sixth than not de cabrio probably yeah i remember there being a lot of late breaking momentum for skyfall and that like i i remember as especially because bafta that morning i think a lot of people expected skyfall to get a best picture nomination

judy dench judy dench was mentioned as a supporting actress contender and bardam definitely was a supporting actor contender you're right and ultimately it doesn't get the top of the line, although it did end up winning song and also, didn't it tie for sound effects with Zero Dark 30? Yes. At the Oscars that year? Was it Skyfall that tied with

Zero Dark 30? And did it win? Let's see, hold on. Skyfall ends up winning. No? I don't remember correctly. But yeah, Javier Bardem was even nominated for, again, Christoph Waltz, not nominated. Havier Bardem was even nominated by SAG.

I think he was sixth place That's so wait So who were the five in SAG Tommy Lee Jones wins Alan Arkin Philip Seymour Hoffman Robert De Niro So Waltz wasn't nominated

Either Critics Choice or SAG Wins the Globe I don't I don't think SAG got to see Django on chain That's interesting Yeah Skyfall wins

Best Original Song For Adele And then in a tie for sound editing, Skyfall and Zero Dark 30, both won. Which was the last... It's the only tie of my lifetime. Oscars.

Ties are kind of cool. They're very cool, because the thing about the Oscars is, it's got to be exactly a tie. Like, it has to be... Like, you know, some... Like, for nominations... 7,000, 8,000 people have to result in a tie. Right. Like, at the Globes, I think it's

if you are within a certain number of votes or whatever, you get whatever, eight nominees. Do you know what I mean? How like the Golden Globes or sometimes, just like 8 billion nominees or whatever. The Oscars, it has to be an exact tie. And like, that's amazing with those kind of numbers. Yeah, the famous, the most famous tie, of course,

is Barbara Streisand. And Catherine Hepburn for the lion in the winter. My favorite. The winner, it's a tie. The winners are Catherine Hepburn. lion in the winter, and Barbara Streisie.

To bring it back to Magic Mike, especially, like, Matthew McConaughey not getting in, like, at this point, the McConnoissance already feels like a talking point where it's like, if it was the year prior, it, you know, we probably wouldn't have been like, oh, Matthew McConaughey for Magic Mike. But now it really feels like something that is almost fully out of, you know, we probably wouldn't have been like, oh, Matthew McConaughey for Magic Mike. But now it really feels like something that is almost fully out of the oven baked. And, I mean, he's not going to be nominated for, like, Killer Joe, where he literally, like, sexually assaults someone with a chicken wing. Like, that's not going to be an Oscar nominee. Yeah, God, I hate it.

But at the same time, like, I think what it is that's keeping him and the movie out of the conversation, aside from how aggressively this. would have been campaigned, is that it's the same thing we saw with hustlers. People just think of it as a stripper movie. And this was like an easy movie to like cast aside when you can't lend it. Maybe if the narrative truly had become this is a movie about the economy. This is about the financial crisis. Here's what I will. They could have really pushed that.

Because even remember Silver Linings playbook, they're like, this is a movie about mental illness. But I think with both Magic Mike and hustlers, critics did try to push that angle, and I think ultimately Oscar voters proved resistant to it. I will say we talk about snob appeal sometimes, probably not enough, because I think that's a huge factor when it comes to Oscar voting in terms of like... Because if you are a movie likes a Silver Linings playbook that might appear weaker on the snob factor, like what the campaign's narrative is, they try to push something that is serious even if you are. if it feels disingenuous. And I think the bummer to me is when you talk about both Magic Mike and especially Hustlers, I think Hustlers gets more Oscar attention if the female characters, both the lead and

supporting, had suffered more. And I don't want that in that movie. Like the movie, I mean, Hustlers is perfect as it is. But I think if the Jennifer Lopez character in Hustlers suffered had like, terrible things happened to her really sort of like was broken down in that movie I think Oscar voters probably

respond to it better because that's what they it fits their like moral framework better in a gross way and it probably fits their idea of Oscar worthy acting because a lot of the great the greatness of Jennifer Lopez and hustlers

is that she's a fucking strong character and she's a fucking boss in that movie And she's complicated, too. Like, you don't like her at every point of the movie. Like, you can feel her, like, morals being complicated. But you don't ever feel sorry for her in a way that I think Oscar voters want to be able to, you know, sympathize and whatever with... I guess I'm maybe, like, drawing a pretty simplistic character of Oscar voters. Sure.

And, like, you could draw really simplistic lines in comparing these movies, too. I think Hustlers does a lot of the thematic things that My Magic Mike is all. also doing better than Magic Mike does, to a big degree. But, yeah, like, in terms of the snobbiness, and, like, it feels like if you're going to go to certain territory, Oscar feels like you have to moralize in a way. Like, you look at something like Boogie Nights, where, like, Julianne Moore gets nominated for Boogie Nights, but Julianne Moore, like, loses her kids in that movie. That's a mental breakdown.

Do you know what I mean? Just like, yeah, she has just like, yeah. And like, I mean, and Bert Reynolds, whatever, like, men and women are different or whatever. But, like, you don't see, weirdly, Mark Wahlberg get nominated for that movie, even though, you know, because he's the person who brings a lot of comedy to that movie. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's just like, I think they're, that character, he has that scene where he gets the shit kicked out or whatever. But the movie doesn't really linger on that.

The movie doesn't give Waller. Ballberg, this, like, battered and bloody Oscar-Bain kind of scene. But, yeah, it's... It's not like you see him just, like, sort of, like, weeping and penitent in that movie. And I think, grossly enough, because Julianne Moore loses her kids in that movie and is essentially punished,

I think it allowed Oscar voters to give her a lot of sympathy. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm not picturing a very... No, that it makes complete sense. picture of all of this, but I think that's... No, I mean, like, we talk about some of the... We're here, this is what we do. We hold up a mirror to Hollywood is what we do here on this podcast.

What else about this? I put the snob appeal thing under why this failed. I think ultimately, supporting actor was probably a tough feel to crack for, you know, a character playing a stripper in. in this climate. I think if the narrative around Matthew McConaughey, especially in supporting actor,

I think sometimes that's a category that's vulnerable towards, like, villains. And maybe it was like the villain narrative was taken up by Javier Bardem unsuccessfully. And Dallas is such a non-traditional villain too. Yeah, but one of the more

compelling ones. Like, if they had if Matthew McConaughey's performance had been discussed, and promoted as like a really interesting, funny, entertaining villain. I think that could have maybe gotten him a little bit closer, but... I think ultimately, the world is a better place if McConaughey gets his rewards for Magic Mike and not Dallas Byers Club. I think that's the thing we have all sort of agreed upon as a culture at this point, though, right?

Yes. Because also, if in a perfect world, McConaughey gets nominated. for the Oscar. He's the only non-winner. He somehow miraculously wins in like this alternate universe that is better. Then DiCaprio, I think, ends up winning for Wolf of Wall Street in 2013. And then I was having this conversation with, uh, with Griffin Newman on texts, uh, the other day, uh, last night, in fact, um, previous guest Griffin Newman. And I was like, who wins in 2015 if DiCaprio has already won for Wolf of Wall Street in 2013. And we kind of couldn't come up with anything better than, I guess, Matt Damon for the

Martian, because, like, the really, that was a... Probably, to be honest, I think that's true. That's the Best Picture nominee. I think without Decaprio, because that narrative was all year, DeCaprio is going to can DeCaprio finally win? Is this the one that's going to do it? I think without that, I think you're able to build a narrative for Damon that is, you know, that movie was huge it felt like he had never won an acting award and even still it's not the same narrative as decaprio but it's like a narrative and certainly the oscar voters liked the martian better than they liked steve jobs and better than they liked trumbo you know what i mean i mean you could see them going for eddie redmayne again i don't know if i could i don't know i mean that movie was so despised rightly and yeah but the other thing i

It feels like that's maybe the other alternative. But I think, I do think if DiCaprio already has an Oscar and like that was so much of what the whole year's narrative was, I think maybe if you don't have this utter certainty that this actor is going to be getting this award, it does shake up the field to maybe let in some other people. I think that's true. I still think DeCaprio gets nominated. I do think. But what I also said to Griffin was, I think George Miller wins director that year then. I think the Revenant becomes a lot less of a thing without the narrative of DeCaprio's Oscar. And I think that clears the way for Miller to win director from Mad Max Fury Road.

That ceremony was such a tease, too, because the whole buildup of the night really made you think that there was a possibility that George Miller could actually pull it off. but it hit this wall of Mad Max's trajectory through the night where it's like it won its last award and you could feel it winning its last award after how many did it get? Six? I thought it was five, but, um, Fury Road wins six. That's wild that it won six and not a director or a picture. I'm so glad that Spotlight won best picture. Spotlight bookending that ceremony. But yeah, I think without the revenant there to write that narrative, because, Because, again, the big part of that movie's narrative was the arduousness, the, you know, the scope of it all. And I think that's a little bit less of a thing. And also, Iniori, too, had already won the year before.

So it would have been easy to let that sort of ease up a little bit. And I think the other thing that I said was, I don't think Tom Hardy gets a supporting actor nomination if DiCaprio's not on his march to win that you're either. So I think you probably get someone like an Idris Elba for Beasts of No Nation, who famously won the SAG that year and then didn't get nominated for the Oscar. I like to play what ifs. It's fun. The Matthew McConaughey one is more interesting. I mean,

an Oscar for Magic Mike would be a better Oscar than an Oscar for Dallas Byers Club. I think he's really good in Dallas Byers Club, aside from all of that movie's problems. I wouldn't get to ask for it. I don't think he's bad in Dallas Byers Club. It still feels, awards-y in a way I don't love.

Do you know what I mean? Where it's just like, he's got AIDS, he lost weights, let's throw awards at him kind of thing. I know that the reputation of Jean-Marc Valet had an upswing and now it's back on a down swing. But I do think that Jean-Marc Valet makes those kind of movies and makes them more interesting than a lesser director would make them. Two awards

that Magic Mike ended up receiving in 2012 that I want to talk about. One of them were going to dip back into the MTV Movie Awards as we occasionally do. This was the point where the MTV Movie Awards had fully gone off the rails and was already in the

throes of this like multiple year swing where everything went to Twilight. Everything was fan voted and the fans were all up in Twilight. And so it was Twilight and the Hunger Games for the better part of like seven years, Right. But so their categories were basically, I think sometimes they just, like, every year was like a new weirdo category. And Channing Tatum was nominated for Best Shirtless Performance. Do you, did you look this up? Did you see who the other guys were? I'm looking it up now. Taylor Lotner wins for Twilight Breaking Dawn part two. So this was the end of the, the Twilight domination.

lights rain. Right. Skyfall for Daniel Craig, which is interesting because the big shirtless moment for Daniel Craig in the Bond franchise, is it Quantum of Salas where he's stepping out of the water in the little powder blue square cut trunks? I do think that's Casino Royale. Whatever it was, like that's your, that's your Daniel Craig best shirtless moment for sure. Is Skyfall the one or is that also Casino Royale where his shirtless moment is him like getting like generous middle torture. That's also Casino Royale. That's Matt's Mickelson.

Cool. Working over his ball sack. Um, The Dark Night Rise is Christian Bale, which I never find Christian Bale sexy in those Batman movies. Isn't his like shirtless moment when he's climbing up that pit wall? Yeah, probably. I don't know.

I never quite stupid. I've, I've found Christian Bale sexy at times, but like, not as Batman. I don't know. Um, one of them is Seth MacFarland and Ted and I'll just pull a Lucille Bluth I don't understand it and I won't respond to it. I don't

I saw Ted because I had to see all the Oscar nominees and fucking Ted was nominated. I'll pull a Laura Dern marriage story. We don't accept it spiritually and we don't accept it structurally. Yeah, right, exactly. I'll take a June, Diane, Raphael. I'm not taking this on at this

moment. Clearly, I think your winner deservedly is Channing Tatum. I know, like, I'm not going to begrudge poor Taylor Lottner because like what does he have at this point but his best shirtless performance MTV Movie Award so like I don't want to take it away from him and like if that boy had any talents

it was being shirtless so fine but I think Channing Tatum's your rightful winner here that's the night of the SAG awards this year where Leah Michelle posted the photo of herself cradling her SAG award on her couch while watching I really

need Taylor Lottner to tweet a photo of his MTV movie award while he's watching the MTV? Is it still golden popcorn? I hope it is. I hope so since it became TV as well. I know. I know, but people can still eat popcorn in the comfort of their own home. I mean, I've been doing lots of it while we've not been leaving our homes. The other random award that, uh, random nominations, not winning these. I don't know why. Magic Mike couldn't pull these off. Anyway, new now next award for cause you're hot. Not because you're hot, but because you're hot because you know

everything's new and hip with the new now next awards Channing Tatum for Magic Mike nominated along with Henry Cavill future Superman for the Tudors which they're not wrong he's so fucking hot in the tutors Jessica Lang and American Horror Story and I want to look up 2012 would have been Asylum that's a weird

that's a weird choice for cuz you're hot Jessica Lang and I know she does have like a sex scene in that in that season, but, like, she's also a nun who gets, like, tortured by the devil, so maybe not. Or by a Nazi James Cromwell. James Cromwell is, like, Dr. Mangola in that season. Jesus Christ. American Horror Story Asylum, by the way, is the one perfect season of American Horror Story, I will say. But shit happens in that season, and it's weird that they would say it's because Jessica

Lang's hot in that. Anyway, winner, Naya Rivera and Glee. Again, I can't take issue with that. Naya Rivera is the best part of Glee, and she, undeniably was hot on that show, so... Very true. But still, you can't get the stripper movie even winning awards for sexiness. Yes! What the fuck?

Warner Brothers, you dropped the ball. Did you end up looking up and seeing what else W.B. Whatever they had that year? Hold on, please. I will get this. Because what would their best picture nominees have... Were they Argo? I guess it's Argo, and they were putting everything in their... Argo stock. They had enough problems to deal with with Affleck getting left off of the director list. They had to really like double back and fucking hustle to get Argo the win. But it was like the second that Argo was seen, everybody was like, boom, Argo is best picture.

That was a TIF premiere, right? Telluride. That was the, no, that was the year where Telluride and Tiff started like fighting because it was supposed to be a TIF world premiere and like, Telluride used to do these, like, sneak preview screenings of whatever. Right, it doesn't count as a premiere, but it's like... Yeah, they also did it with 12 years of slave. Yeah. Also, I remember Silver Lanning's Playbook being a big TIF premiere movie that year,

where all of a sudden, because we, people weren't really... They won the people's choice. That wasn't really on people's radar so much, I think, because that movie, didn't that movie, like, get made very quickly? That I don't know about, but, like, there were more obvious movies, because that was Weinstein Co. And, like, they had more obvious movies to push that year that I think people hated. Yeah.

Yeah, the only other Oscar nominee, at least, that I'm seeing for Warner Brothers that year, was The Hobbit. So it's just Argo? Was I right that Argo was W.B? Argo and the Hobbit. And then I can't figure out whatever it would have been that they had that people didn't like. Maybe I'm just conflating it with The Hobbit. but Magic Mike was not a priority in there. Well, The Hobbit...

I mean, they got the nomination for Alan Arkin just for saying, Argo, fuck yourself. That tells you how much effort they put into Matthew McConaughey. The Hobbit and Unexpected Journey got three Oscar nominations. Like, that's... I know that it's all in the very expected, like, visual effects and sound categories, but, like, nobody liked that movie.

Nobody liked any of those movies, and I'm pretty sure they all got nominations on some level. I think that's true. Maybe the third one didn't. Because by the time the third one came out, people were like, I think we're done. Desolation of Smog definitely got a visual effects nomination. I'm just going to keep saying Smog. The desolation of Smog.

The desolation of Smog. Which was the only one that they had to pull from, oh no way, Battle of Five Armies, which was originally supposed to be there and back again, right? And they were like, that's gay. We're going to make it a battle. The whole marketing of that whole trilogy, we're just like, it's going to be one movie no it's going to be two movies no it's going to be three and one of them's going to be called the desolation of smog and then one of them would be about a big battle between not one army not two not three not four but five it's just like we're still not going to be excited about this you're right though i don't think that got nominated for anything it's certainly battle of the five armies was not a Okay. Battle of the Five Armies, Desolation of Smog, there and back again, an unexpected journey.

Ju-JuB's journey, I'm still here. Okay, no, no, no, no. The Hobbit subtitles, give them to this year's best picture nominees. Obviously, Desolation of Smog is Le Miserab, Desolation of Smog. I would say Argo there and back again Wait, okay, we're doing the 2012 nominees All right Best Picture nominees Yeah, Argo is definitely

back again, that's for sure There and back again You could also say Beast of the Southern Wild There and Back again You could also say Amor is there and back again No, Amor is the desolation of Smog Truly, like Amor the desolation of Smog

Silver Linings Playbook is the Battle of the Five Armies just for the like football explanation scenes. Right, right. Is Lincoln an unexpected journey or is Lincoln the Battle of Five Armies? I guess Beas of the Southern Wild is an unexpected journey. Yeah, I mean, in many ways most movies you could just subtitle an unexpected journey, for sure. Life of Pie, an unexpected journey. That actually sounds nice.

Yeah, it does, doesn't it? um zero dark 30 is kind of there and back again right in terms of American foreign policy um yeah what is desolation of smog

yeah at least for the first half of it right god lay miserab is authentically one of the worst best picture is lay miserab the desolation of smog where smog is um the the student rebellion where that gets desolated?

Although I guess the title of the desolation of Smog isn't Smauk getting desolated, but Smog bringing the desolation. Smog is the pores on the faces of all of the actors in the movie getting absolutely obliterated by Tom Hooper's camera. The desolation of Smog just means

like Aaron Tevate's character gets killed. And truly, it's sad as part of that whole movie. I couldn't look at that gorgeous face anymore. What is Django Unchanged? That's the desolation of Smog. Is it an unexpected journey? I mean, again, they all are. It's kind of there and back again.

Life of Pie is definitely there and back again. Yeah. When There and then Back Again is Dry Land. Life of Pie famously... Thank you, Richard Parker. Life of Pie famously is my favorite movie is my best picture winner that year, and everybody looks at me cross-hide when I say that.

But all I'm saying is, watch that movie again. It really fucking delivers. I think it's such an underrated. For a movie that, like, one best director, I think it's so underrated. People think it's just this, like, sort of, like, tony literary adaptation

with, like, religious overtones. But it's really smart about its religious overtones. And Irfan-Cons... The best director win, I think, at least in the consciousness, feels so removed from, like, the movie itself. Like, it feels like that Oscar win went entirely to this technical achievement and nothing to do with, like, narrative of the movie.

I think you are right, but I think even accidentally it ended up awarding the right movie. Sure. I know a lot of people really ride for Lincoln and Spielberg and Lincoln, and I don't think Lincoln's a bad movie, but I think... I love that movie. I think... I think to give Spielberg,

a third best director Oscar for Lincoln feels weird to me when like and I know Angley one is second that movie never really materialized authentic heat around it in a way that I think all of the passion around that movie funneled directly into Daniel Day Lewis

in a way that I think is kind of unfair to the movie because I think that movie's great I think that's true and I think that movie is a weirdly like a scripting triumph over everything I know like it's easy to Stan Tony Kushner because like Tony Kushner should have an Oscar for that movie full stop that script is incredible yeah that is like textbook I mean like obviously Angels in America is the textbook Tony Kushner but like everything that it's such an authorial voice of like you listen to

that movie and of course Tony Kushner wrote it um yeah the fact that Chris Terrio for Argo beat out Lincoln, um, I just remember, uh, certain Oscar Pundit, like, couldn't get over that one for years and kind of understandably so, but, uh, yeah, I think I know who we're talking about here. And I don't want to like, yeah, like, whatever. Chris Terrio's writing credits afterwards, though, make that an even worse Oscar win. What were they? I can't even think of them. Uh, Batman v. Superman. right justice league wasn't he like brought in rise of skywalker or was that was he the the OG on both of those it's tough to tell I think he is the OG on both of those and then I don't know at what point he came in to Rise of Skywalker but because Rise of Skywalker has such similar problems as both

of those movies do I'm willing to credit a lot of its problems to that writer. Here's something wild. Flight got a screenplay nomination but not a visual effects nomination, which is utterly for an upside down plane. Because that's exactly the opposite of what you should be rewarding for flight. I think that movie is Denzel Washington gives a great performance and that plane crash scene is goddamn terrifying and amazing. And in no way should the rest of that script be honored whatsoever. You know who you could honor for that? What? John Goodman.

I don't know. John Goodman's playing a real broad character. I just think John Goodman deserves an Oscar nomination at this point. He definitely does. And the fact that he never got one for either Barton Fink or the Big Lobowski is kind of crazy. I mean, Big Lobosky was not a thing for Oscar at this point. No, but I mean, if we're in its year, like in hindsight. If we're inventing nominations for John Goodman in flight, you can allow me to invent a nomination for the Big

To put a pin on the Oscar conversation, because we should probably move on to the IMDB game at this point. We're getting up there in that time. Even though Anna Karinana won this Oscar, and we both loved that movie, this is a good win. A posthumous nomination for someone who I like to bring up at any moment that I can, we stand, Iko Ishioka. We do. Nominated for Miramir posthumously, her final work. Miram is a weird fucking movie. Oscar winner for Bram Stoker's Dracula.

Yes. Legend, icon, moment. Now come on now. All right. IMDB game. Christopher, tell the children. All right, so every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress

to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. With any of those titles, our television or voiceover work, we mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints where we make it reign on hints like dollar bills all over Matthew McConaughey doing the splits in a leopard G-string. Excellent. That's exactly how I would have written it up myself. So, Chris, would you like to give or guess first? I'd like to give first.

Someone we've talked about as someone having multiple Oscars that feel like they should not have that many. this early. Joseph, for you, I have Christoph Valtz. Oh, boy. Well, it's interesting. Christoph Valtz probably has made more movies than I'm thinking he's made, but, like, it does sort of feel like we're dealing with a more limited set. Because it's not even like he was an actor who had this, like, great, like,

bountiful career in Europe or whatever before he came over. He just sort of feels like. I mean, he worked a lot, but he was still unknown to American audiences. And I think he did some TV overseas as well. it's not like he was this, like, beloved Euro actor or anything that, like, Quentin Tarantino discovered. I don't know. Um, it's got to be... He truly has a very... If you look at the... Yeah. His actual resume of credits, it is mind-bogglingly chaotic.

I almost want to try and guess this four-for-four right off the bat and then tell me how many I got wrong. Okay. We can... We can do that. We can do that. I... But I honestly, I feel very strongly that it's... I may have picked this one to not be nice to you. Well then you can destroy my dream. So you just throw out those four guesses so why not? My four guesses God, what if I get all four wrong?

Inglorious Bastards, Django Unchained Big Eyes Spector. You got two. Okay. Obviously his Oscar wins are there. So not Spector and not Big Eyes. I will give you the years though as we've pointed out we're talking about a condensed

time so I don't know how much that's going to help you. Right. 2011 and 2013. Is one of those water for elephants? It is not. Fuck. Water for elephants, a movie we could do.

Was that one of those years, though? Water for elephants? Water for elephants was 2011, yes. 2011. Okay. 11 and 13, Christoph Valtz. So not even downsizing. Not downsizing.

A movie that I forgot that he was in, but looking at his credits, it makes absolute sense that he is in that terrible movie I feel like I may have exhausted all of the Christoph Waltz movies that I know which is weird. You haven't because there's one that we have talked about doing. Okay.

That is not big eyes. That is not big eyes. Right. Is he the villain in one or both of these? The one that we've talked about doing maybe everyone is the villain Oh, interesting.

Um, Christoff, Christoph, Christoph, Christoph, Waltz. So it's an ensemble? Yes. And he's... Small ensemble. Oh, God.

We do have to do this. I know there's an ick factor with the director, but we do have to do this, and it is carnage. It is carnage. Which is 2011. Yes. Roman Palamination. God of Carnage, Adaptation, Carnage.

We have to, we have to do that. We can, you know, whatever, devote as little time as possible to Polanski, but, like, that is such a perfect this at Oscar Buzz movie. I also never saw it because of the Polansky factor, and I'm, I loved the play when I saw it on Broadway, so I am still, like, somewhat curious about it. Did you see the original cast? Yes, I did. Marsha Gay Hardin, Gandalfi.

Marsha Gay Hardin, Hope Davis, puking all over the stage. That's such a moment. So funny. God, I love that. Okay, 2013. Oh, no, wait, I didn't. Was it Gandalfini and maybe I didn't see Gandalfini? I think Gandalfini might have been out or something.

Well, so which role was Jeff Daniels playing? Because he came back to play. In the second cast, he switched roles. But I think there might have been a replacement between the two. You look that up while I ponder a 2013, Christop Waltz movie. Um, all right, so... Maybe I did see... No, I saw Gandalfi.

Did you? I saw Gant Fian. Marcia Gay-Harden famously won a Tony for that. Whatever, we'll talk about it when we do our Carnage episode. Ripped that in half. It was so good. Okay, so 2013, is he a villain? Uh, I don't think so.

He's the protagonist. This is also a director who might be the devil. Oh. And I will also say it is credited to 2013 because it made its festival run in 2013. It didn't get a U.S. release barely got one anyway until 2014. Oh boy, and a director who's a shitty person? Yes. Brian Singer?

No. A director who I do not believe has any accusations against them but loves talking about everybody else's and how it's not a big deal. Oh. Terry Gilliam? Terry Gilliam. Fuck. What was Terry Gilliam making? It's not Tideland, right? That movie?

No. No, that's Jeff Bridges. The poster is Christoph Waltz and his head projected it through space. He is bald, and there's, like, some type of microcosm Photoshop over his, where his brain would be. It looks like, you know. Graphic design is someone's passion. I definitely didn't see this movie. For a while there, Terry Gilliam was just sort of, like,

noodling into projects that, like, I would never see, like, that never sort of, like, ever happened. I'm going to have to pass on that one. Yeah. Wait, so I'm going to, I'm going to give up, because I don't think I have this title in my head. I think you know what this movie is, though. It's called The Zero Theorem. It premiered at Venice in 2013.

Never. Because it is a Terry Gilliam movie, and those just don't exist. Even his Don Quixote movie that he finally made. I don't even know if I would have connected. either Gilliam or Christoph Waltz to that movie. That's as little as it exists in my brain. It is utterly shocking to me that that is on Christoph's known for. I think it's because he is first build and he is usually not in movies. Yeah, but still, man, okay. Well, that's a fail for me. Yikes. Okay. Who do you have for me? I think you're going to be able to get this one. So we talked about

Soderberg a lot in this episode. His most recent films, last year he made. two Netflix movies. One is the laundromat, but one is a movie that I think deserves more attention, which is called High Flying Bird, which stars the great André Holland in a great performance. Like, see it for that if that alone. Truly, truly. So, Chris, you're going to guess the known for Andre Holland.

I'm going to guess High Flying Bird and Moonlight. One of those is correct. Moonlight is correct. Not High Flying Bird. Netflix never shows up on stuff. Wait, is there any TV? Nope. So know the Nick. Speaking of Soderberg. Can we just take a minute to talk about the shot of him smoking in moonlight?

In moonlight? So, first of all, yes. Genuinely not enough of that GIF on Twitter. It's everybody's job to bring that GIF back to regular rotation. It's the hottest thing. My favorite thing that I ever wrote, maybe, one of them, at least, at Decider, was at the end of 2016 for year end stuff. I did 2016 the year in smoking, because that was... I loved that. It's maybe my favorite thing that I ever wrote, where it's generally just like, I know smoking is bad, and yet look how great all these people are at smoking in these movies. And it was Andre Holland and Moonlight, Annette Benning and 20th century women, Cretia in Cretia. Wait, you keep guessing i'm going to bring up this article because like i mean no television makes this hard because he he's also in castle rock it's great in castle rock first season with syspacek um he's in selma so i'm going to say selma correct selma 2016 the year in smoking i had both an upbending and

L. Fanning and 20th century women. They smoked together. Natalie Portman in Jackie. Iconic smoking. Andre Hollins. Cretia. Iconic smoking. Oh, and that was the year of the Obama movies, and I think both of the Obama movies

really made a point of being like, Barack used to smoke. Like, it was the whole thing. What a great year. Southside with you is good. I like Southside with you. I think I liked both. of them. Neither one of them, like, super loved, but, like, both Barry and South outside with you, I thought we're good. I'm kind of at a loss here. The thing about

the Andre Holland shot in Moonlight is, didn't Barry Jenkins say that shot was, like, not supposed to be in the movie, that it was just like, Andre Holland was legit taking a break and was, like, leading up against the wall. It was just, like, a pickup. It randomly happened. Fuck. Amazing. All right. Anyway, you're two, and you've got one wrong guess. I might have to give up my other guess because everything that's coming to me is TV.

I can't believe high film. More people need to watch High Flying Bird. Is he in the upcoming Barry Jenkins TV series? TV show? I don't think, because I think, I'm trying to remember who, I know Joel Edgerton is in it. And is that thing at least finished?

we talked about that. Maybe hopefully see that at some point? I think they just either are very close to being done with filming or they just finished it. All right. So do you want to burn a guess and get the years? Yeah. Okay. The years are 2013 and 2018.

Okay. So something before moonlight and something after moonlight. Right. He is not the star of either of these, but one of them is a really small. role, and one of them is just like, I think, a standard supporting role. Although I can't be positive because I never saw this movie.

All right. Can I get, like, genres? Sure. One of them is a sports movie, and one of them is a fantasy adventure thing. Okay, so, like, a genre movie

and then a sports movie. Yep. What's the sport? The sport is baseball. Is it 42? 42. I liked that movie. Starring Chadwick Bozeman and directed by Oscar winner Brian Helgeland,

who won his Oscar for writing Confidential. Yeah. And some people try to be like, let's get hairs. Ford nominated for this movie. It's a past, guys. Okay, so the fantasy movie, 42 is older, so that would have been, like, that's the 2013 movie, the 2018

fantasy movie, which I'm guessing this is the smaller role. Yes. This one, he's working with a director he's worked with before, so it's essentially just like, hey, come be in my movie, probably. director he's worked before guessing it's not Brian Helgeland um

um 20 2018 2018 yes that's a 2018 movie it's Ava Duverne he plays like a teacher in a wrinkle in time he's the school principal in a wrinkle in time very good oh he's a principal I remembered him as like a teacher well principal's a teacher he essentially serves the same function in the movie right

yes Andre Holland in A Rinkle in Time Fantastic actor should be in many more things Wonderful Go watch High Flying Bird everyone Yeah he was in 1600 Penn Which makes me even more want to go back and watch 1600 Penn Because I'd never seen it And I do find John Lovett actually very funny now

So maybe It's a lot of Josh Gadd though Oh oh it's gonna I'm gonna have to pal on that one. But like, Jenna Elfman and Bill Pullman as your potus and flotis is kind of an interesting idea. Anyway. Sure.

All right. Do we have any very final notes on Magic Mike? Magic Mike. I'm going to jump into my notebook to see if there's anything. I mentioned the allure of the furniture maker, Channing Tatum and Olivia Munn, who I loved. Oh, that shot with the dick pump, I think, is like pure art. legitimately one of the great sight gags Joe Mangonello's just got his dick in a pump

and it's just in the corner of the shot but it's also pulling all of the focus. It's fantastic. Oh, the shorts Dallas wears in the gym scene where he's training Alex Pedifer on how to gyrate are costume nomination worthy are truly something else. God Cody Horn's character is such a fucking drip.

The music choices I mentioned a little bit, but, like, so pitch-perfect and, like, ideal. It's raining men. Save a horse ride a cowboy. The its raining-men version is, like, a shitty cover. It is. But also, that feels right, too. Because I think the original reigning men would have been too campy for what this outfit does.

And, like, this shitty stripper bar would probably play the bad version of it. Right. But, like, Save a Horse Ride a Cowboy is exactly stereotypically perfect. Pony is exactly stereotypically perfect. It's just, it's well done. The pony scene, I wrote down Fred Astaire for the horny 21st century, and I don't think I'm wrong. I genuinely don't think I'm wrong. It is that well done and memorable and fantastic.

Oh, and also I just wrote this guys in sweatpants aesthetic, which is also absolutely correct. It's like the, the porny appeal of hot guys in sweatpants, and like this movie gets it. that's all that's what I got how about you all of that I also think and we can get into this

whenever we might eventually do XXL not anytime soon since we just did this movie but this movie needs the female lust in this movie feels so anonymous and I get that the movie is doing

a thing but like one of the reasons that I like Magic Mike XXL more is women. I think the best scene of female lust in this movie is weirdly Betsy Brandt in the bank scene where you can like tell that she's

just sort of like she's in like she's sort of under his spell a little bit in a way that like oh this is the kind of appeal he has in the stripper realm. It's the limits of lust too because he thinks that he can charm her into getting

her on his side passed, like, what her job requirements are, and he can't. Anyway, great movie. Go watch it. It's on Amazon Prime. We chose all the movies during this quarantine era for their accessibility, so go and watch it because it's great. Should we tease our upcoming mini-series, possibly? I'm sure by now on Twitter we will have talked or teased about it. Yes, why don't you? Why don't you give it a little tease? Okay, so last year we did, for the month of May, we did our first, mini-series. I think we're deciding

May equals miniseries for us. We're going to be doing another one next month. We asked what is the perfect month for miniseries and we both said it's going to be May. Well done, Joseph. This year, instead of focusing on a full cinematic year,

we wanted to try another different experiment and we are going to be focusing on a single performer. Someone whose presence always gets like Oscar talk generating. but perhaps has had success and not as much success at the same time. We will be talking for a month long about Naomi Watts.

Yeah, we will. Can't wait. We've kind of teased this before, but it was something we were kind of eager to dive in, and I'm kind of eager to watch or re-watch the titles we'll be doing. We've been purposefully avoiding Naomi Watts movies for literally a year, I think, to prepare for this. So, like, truly the floodgates will open now,

and no pun intended for The Impossible, because that was, of course, one of her actual Oscar nominations. Yeah, can't wait to delve into it. We're going to have, hopefully, some really great guests. We're going to have some really great conversations and excited for you listeners

to accept the Naomi Watts of it all for a whole month in May. And also, I mean, just to percolate things further, we are at our 90th episode, this very episode. Who knows? Get ready for 100. guys. We, we, we, uh, we, we, uh, we're planning something. Oh, brace yourselves. It's coming. So, that is our episode, though, on Magic Mike. If you want more in this had Oscar buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz. Tumblr.com. You should also follow our

Twitter account at had underscore Oscar underscore buzz. Chris has given you all the good teases and polls and whatnot. Anything that's ever good on our Twitter feed, you can credit that to Mr. Chris file. Chris, where can the listeners find you and your stuff? Uh, you can find me on Twitter.com at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L, also on letterboxed under the same name. Heck yeah. I am on Twitter at Joe Reed, re-despelled R-E-I-D. I'm on letterboxed as Joe Reed. Read as spelled the exact same way. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mevious for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, or wherever else you get podcasts, a five-star review in particular. really helps us out with Apple podcast visibility. So if you're horny, let's do it, write it

a nice review. Thank you all for this week. Please don't send me to jail for doing that. We hope we'll be back next week for more bugs. Right in my soul My saddle My saddles Made it Come in Jumping