This Had Oscar Buzz - 092 – Le Divorce (with Bobby Finger) (Naomi Watts – Part One)

Episode Date: May 4, 2020

We kick off our Nao-May miniseries this week with contemporary Merchant Ivory misfire Le Divorce. After missing out on a nomination for Mulholland Drive, Naomi Watts’ first foray with prestige filmmaking was this literary adaptation about two American sisters in Paris caught in the cultural crossfires of French perspectives on love and legality. Opposite the … Continue reading "092 – Le Divorce (with Bobby Finger) (Naomi Watts – Part One)"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Mel and Heck. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. somebody do you say bonjure monsieur or just bonjure what sort of a stupid question is that this spring two young americans are learning about love parisian style you're a beautiful young

woman we must decide if you will become my mistress what do you mean become your mistress Didn't anyone ever tell you not to accept expensive gifts for men? It puts you in the position of having to do what he wants. I want to do it anyway. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast. The only podcast interested in hunting the most dangerous game. Man. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time

had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here as always with my co-host and Tell Tell Tell Red Kelly. bag, Chris File. Hello, Chris. Listen, I am the key accessory to all mistresses in France. Literally the one piece of

color in this entire rather bland movie, but we'll get to that. And it's a rather bland bag. Yeah, I mean, yes, for something that becomes such a, you know, huge deal and we'll obviously get into it. Not to be she-she-snob or anything but it did feel like the target burkin a little bit right like the knockoff target burkin yeah no that's totally true um we're kicking off something kind of fun chris we are

starting our mini series on the failed oscar buzz of Naomi Watts we do not want to pick on Naomi Watts we want to make that sort of clear this is not Naomi Watts good actress Naomi Watts good actress very much enjoyed Enjoy her. Always have. Very good actress. And what I think is interesting is our last mini-series, which we did last May. I guess this is now our thing that we do a miniseries in May. Happy with it. Our last miniseries was on the films of 2003, and we are right back again. 2003. We can't seem to escape it. Another film from 2003. One of the many Naomi Watts films that as we went through the year, we blocked ourselves from doing. Maybe we should try to find a bridge. to next year, buried somewhere within the Naomi Watts movies we're talking about. Yeah, that's true.

But before our series, we did want to bring on some special guests, and one of them is here this week, a second-time guest on this had Oscar Buzz previously here to discuss the lavish Long Island slash Westchester. I can't remember where that party was, but wherever Marsha Gay-Harden is setting off a fireworks display we are here and we we welcome our guests so welcome back to the show bobby finger hello thanks for having me thank you for coming on i was just floating around like that kelly bag until you caught me again yeah god floating off of the island floating floating floating all of a sudden all of a sudden whimsy enters the picture it's like a reverse forest gump feather of course

the french forest gump feather is a handbag is a Very expensive handbag. Yeah, exactly. Yes, just Hermes floating around everywhere. Yeah, welcome back, Bobby. We had to, as we said, for the Mito Black episode where there was so much going on. I feel like I think the sort of sign curve of interest in, like, there's so much going on in Mijl Black, and there's so little going on in LaDivorce. Like, honestly, it's whiplash.

It's sort of cultural whiplash. But so when we have our first-time guests on, we asked them to sort of talk about their Oscar origin story. We've already been through that with you. For our Naomi Watts miniseries, though, we wanted to ask, what was the first Naomi Watts movie you remember watching, or at least that you remember noticing Naomi Watts? I think, I mean, I was thinking about this yesterday when I was looking to the outline, and I, I'm not sure which one I saw first, but the first time that I really considered Naomi Watts. was Mahal and Drive because I didn't understand, I didn't see Mahal and Drive for, I didn't see it in theaters, I definitely saw it on DVD around the time that I saw the ring. So I'm not sure if I saw the ring first or Mahal and Drive first, but I do remember knowing who Naomi Watts sort of

was when Mulholland Drive came out and I didn't know what Mahal and Drive fully was about and I thought that they were both of the women were Naomi Watts. I didn't, you know what I mean? So I, I I was like, I, and Naomi Watts is not on the poster for Mahal and Drive. It's, um, who is, who is, who is she? Laura Herring. Yeah. It's Laura Herring. Yeah.

But the Laura Herring one is the one that like, when it's just one of them. Yeah, that was the DVD. Yeah, that's like the overhead. The overhead is her, but then there's that dead on that's Naomi Watts on the phone. And I was like, why does she look a little different in these two versions of the poster? So I feel like that's the first time I really took a second to think about Naomi Watts, but I think the first movie that I probably saw with her in it was The Ring. Well, it's interesting about Mahal and Drive,

and what I think might have exacerbated that for you, I'm just sort of guessing. But there were a lot of reviews at the time that were like, you won't believe that Naomi Watts is playing. One specifically, it might have even been Roger Ebert. But I thought it was two different actresses playing the same part. And I was so surprised. And what they meant was Naomi Watts before they go into the blue box.

And then after, when she's the like broken down actress, like rubbing one out on the couch or whatever. And like, and they were like, and that's what they were saying. They were like, I can't believe that it's too. But I think a lot of people, and I think, you know, you were probably not alone in that, saw the movie and we're expecting this like, oh, you know, this two, you know, two women in the film who seem really dissimilar. And I guess they're the same person. and that's not quite you know obviously like identity and Malhalla Drive sort of comes and goes

that's a movie I really really loved at the time I think like you I don't think I saw it in theater but I think I saw it like the second it was identity Oh Mahal and Drive Oh Mahal and Drive Okay it's like identity I saw identity and I saw identity in theaters I saw it opening day

I think I did too I'm pretty sure I did too They all play the hotel And then I guess our follow-up question is when we when we mentioned to you that we were going to do a Naomi Watts mini series I think we gave you sort of like a limited list of like which of these movies would you be interested in and you jumped at La Divorce and I did well the options were the options were um la Divorce St. Vincent and Diana and then you had a couple more you had you said

also that it might be we don't live here anymore the painted veil of funny games and I'd seen those, but I haven't, I hadn't seen, at the time, I hadn't seen Le D'Divorce, St. Vincent, or Diana. And I was like, I don't want to watch Diana. St. Vincent doesn't seem fun. And I had heard, and Le D'Divorce is just like a James Ivory movie where that also has Kate Hudson and Stocker Channing, like set in France. That's sort of a rom-com. I've been wanting to see it, never took the time to see it. 2003, great era, nostalgic for 2003. Why not? And it was, I jumped on it because I thought it was going to be the polar opposite of what it is, basically. It should be a romp, right?

It should be cute and fun and funny and kind of, like, lovely. And it's just sort of serious and heavy and dull and just, like, all these things I don't want. Like, I was thinking about this, this sort of, because it sold itself as this comedy of manners. It says that on the poster. It's a comedy of manners, but in, like, modern times or whatever. And I'm like, A, could have used more comedy. And B, I could sort of see this kind of story play out in sort of, you know, older, like, maybe like Victorian era, Edwardian era, something like that or whatever, like Jane Austen times, I guess, even just like where these sort of slight little scandals are kind of whispered about and talked about in different groups. And everybody is sort of, you know, Kate Hudson gets the job, like, whatever, sorting things for.

Glenn Close, whatever the hell she's doing. Helping her with her hoarding boxes. Right, basically. I was just like, that seems like the kind of thing that you would do in, you know, an Austin adaptation or you know, an EM Forrester thing or whatever. Yeah. And I was like, all of that probably would have played

as more interesting, maybe, because I don't know, just like if there, maybe there's like expectations in modern times. When you have this thing and you said it, you know, in modern times and Kate Hudson's a mistress and Naomi Watts's husband is left her and she's pregnant and sort of flailing and I'm like all of these things have to you need to

like take it up to another level or something something else needs to happen yeah yeah and it's also felt like if it's going to be a romp like this it was almost a little too mature and non-judgmental like I wanted it to be more judgy because it's like Americans are this way and French people are this way and yes but it was very polite about it and I was like but both ways have merits and both sides are good I was like okay that's a very mature approach to this but this is a movie pick a side and be mean about it like I yeah I didn't like that it was so um I don't know fair to both sides you know I it felt like it should have been angrier it felt like it should have been more of a parody of these things like it was almost too it was too it was too

realistic and people were I mean apart from you know when it got a little melodramatic at the end with the Matthew Modin stuff. But apart from that, the way that it treated everyone and the way that it's sort of shown a light on these different sort of cultural practices or like cultural attitudes towards relationships and divorce, I was like, this is like an essay. This isn't a fun movie, you know?

Right. I don't know. But because you brought up the Matthew Modin thing, which is this absolutely like crazy finale to the movie where he like holds the entire, tourist group at the Eiffel Tower hostage with a gun in this like you know comedy of manners that's not really a comedy all of these this movie does have some absolutely crazy things in it including like this whole subplot about mistresses getting the same handbag like those things would make so much

more sense and not seem as crazy if this was more farcical and like people like you're saying it's too polite about what it's satirizing. So, like, if you had even the, like, gross caricature of, like, the snooty French people and the ignorant Americans, like, if it was played to a higher temperature, those wouldn't seem so crazy. Yeah. Well, and I sort of kept expecting, sorry, go ahead, Bobby. Well, I mean, I was just going to say it almost, it almost wasn't even a satire at that point because it refused, it refused to have any sort of teeth. Like, I, I, it didn't really seem to be saying much of anything by the end of it, you know? I kept expecting, like, at the very least, like, the Leslie Carone character and the Stocker Channing character to feel, to bristle at not only each other, because they really only have maybe like that one scene together, but sort of to bristle at each other's families, you know?

And because ultimately what this thing is, it's, you know, this dispute around not only the divorce, but the dividing up of the community property and there's this painting. And they have to get it, God, all these scenes of getting that painting appraised, there's so many of them. And ultimately, like, the biggest dispute is sort of comes down to the fact that, like, French community property laws are really restrictive. And it's just like, okay, well, great. So. And I, it's so funny that this is all based on a. novel because I can't imagine sometimes you can imagine things where it's just like oh yeah I can see where the book would be a lot more interesting about X Y and Z and this I totally can't I can't imagine reading a book that is so much about French community property laws and appraising like this painting and all this stuff I'm just like I don't care and I and I can't even I don't know it's I might have where the Naomi Watt's sister and the Kate Huckie Hudson character, sister, are having these wildly disparate, like, character situations that they're going through, where it's like, Kate Hudson doesn't really have much of anything.

And Naomi Watts goes through it. Like, she's pregnant during a divorce. She has a suicide attempt. Her husband is killed on her property and left in a dumpster. Yeah. Also, here's my question to you guys. why is it why why is it important

that they're half sisters and not oh I thought the same thing it was so what did that do what did that enter into the story it's kind of a little bit like it's all about you know

the nuances of the French family and what they consider I don't want to say authentic but what the the French family is shown as saying what they will consider worthy or not and it's like to them a half-sister might not be considered a sister maybe where it's like you get this

kind of what we would see as like a you know imbalance between the american family and it's perfectly fine and it's treated as normal whereas it's the type of thing it makes you think the french family would look askance at it in a way i don't know it's just that they don't think they don't really bring it up. No, they don't. Yeah. I guess it's too subtle maybe, but I don't know. I kept expecting for when Sam Waterston and Stalker Channing and Thomas Lennon come to France, I expected to see more sort of friction within the family in that regard, whether, you know, because I don't know, the way Kate Hudson sort of mentions it at that early dinner party was like, well, we both inherited our fathers, whatever, and we had separate mothers. And I was just like,

oh, there's probably some family conflict in there. And it's just not. It's just like not at all. And it just seems like... It's like a certain glossing over of things that can be fine there, but like it creates all this turmoil in France or something. I kind of wanted there to be a stated, very clear age difference between the sisters. Like I kind of like Kate Hudson's sister to clearly be like 20 years old, just graduated from college, has nothing going on in her life

because it would make that character. or make any sense? Yeah. It would at the very least make that haircut make more sense within the story. She gets this very severe bangs and a bob kind of a thing. Like Barbara Streisand bangs Bob thing, yeah. Yeah.

And it gets immediately noticed. And then, but it's just like, I don't think anybody in the movie really sort of like appreciates just how insane this haircut is. And I think it would make more sense if you do, if you're right, if you play her as very much the younger sister trying to sort of fit into this French society where she doesn't really fit in.

And the movie glances at that every once in a while, but never really delves into it. And I'm like, that would make so much more sense if she's like, you're right, if she's 20 and she's trying to like put on airs or trying to be more sophisticated than she is. Or just trying everything, because that's sort of the thing. It's like that's what the movie is sort of suggesting in a way. It's like she's young. She likes the young bohemian guy. She likes the older guy who's giving her a, like a Kelly bag.

She will take a job doing anything because she sort of has both no skills and every skill. You know, like, Glenn Close is like, do you read a book? You read books? Okay. You got it. Hired. Right. Whatever.

You can read. Okay. You are now, yeah. Also, I'm pretty sure whenever a university, it wasn't she preparing the papers to donate to some archive at a university or something? Like, if that's what it was, then not that I've ever done this, but I'm pretty sure when a university agrees to take the papers, it's. their job to go through it and decide what they want and what they don't and how they want to organize it. Like, why would they want Kate Hudson to do this? Like, just give them the boxes of the papers and be on your way. I absolutely agreed. I will say, and I know that Chris is maybe

not the audience for this, but I'm just going to float this out there. Glenn Close by far is my favorite part of this movie. Glenn Close is the best performance in this movie. She's, every time they come back to her, I'm just like, yes, this is where I've wanted to be. She's, she's, she's, she's, She's knowing, she can, she does this thing where she's, she's not, I mean, she's judging Kate Hudson's character, but she's not being nasty about it, but you can tell she's just sort of like looking right through her because she has had this previous relationship. She's been there, yeah. Yeah, with the same guy that Kate Hudson is seeing. And she's, every little thing where she just sort of like pulls him aside and she's just like, so you gave her the Kelly bag, huh? And like, signs his copy of her book with just like to Mr. Kelly bag or whatever.

I was just like, man, you've got this guy's number. How long has Hermes been making that bag? Apparently. My trash American self was like, this bag is tacky. Maybe it's just the leather she has in that bag. It just looks like a tacky patent. I did like the note where he was just like, you know, you don't have to take that bag everywhere. It's just like, fuck you, man.

It's my one cool thing. I'm taking it everywhere. Which is like the tacky American thing to do. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I googled this last night because I, I was wondering the same thing. I think I had the same thought as you, Chris, which was like, why isn't this a Berkin? And I was like, this is so weird, because I don't know anything about bags.

But it was, it was a very big deal in the middle of the century. I only, I googled this yesterday because Grace Kelly wore it once. And that's why they called it the Kelly bag, because she made it really popular. And it was like in the 50s. And so they've been making it at least since then. Yeah, they mentioned that. Naomi Watts mentions that. I think when she, when Kate first gets it in the, in the package, she says something about

Grace Kelly, so. I guess I took it up as, like, it was an imitation of whatever bag she was carrying, but I guess it's the same bag that they repurpose in uglier fabrics. But I also like that it's this, like, big scarlet letter where it's just like, Leslie Caron looks at it and she's just like, whore, except Leslie Caron, that's the other thing. The whole French family is just like, so you're dating our uncle. And it's just like, okay, everybody's just like, fine with it. How many mistresses has he had?

that it's become this iconic thing that all of these mistresses have this horror bag. I wanted them to pull back out at the end with the Eiffel Tower and instead of like sending this floating bag across all of France which reminded me a little bit of the gun in Moulon Rouge

when it gets kicked out of the theater member and it goes tumbling over and over and then like dings off of the top of the Eiffel Tower. But anyway, I wanted them to pull back at the Eiffel Tower and just have just be like red bags sort of on the arm of like every fourth woman or whatever. It's just like this man's just been populating all of Paris with these red

Kelly bags. All right, before we, we're going to ask you, Bobby, in a second, to give a 60-second plot description as we do on the show. But before that, I'm going to run down the specifics of La Divorce, as we have been talking about, directed by James Ivory, of course, produced by Ismail Merchant, the famous Merchant Ivory Productions. This was sort of the kind of the end of the line for them in terms of their Oscar hot streak. I don't think they had anything after this that... White Countess. Right, but did the White Countess get a nomination for anything?

It was pushed for at least Natasha Richardson, but nothing happened to me. It definitely was, but I don't think anything came of it. Yeah. Directed by James Ivory, written by Ruth Prower, Jabala, and James Ivory, based on the novel by Diane Johnson, starring Naomi Watts, Kate Hudson, Glenn Close, Leslie Carone, Matthew Modine, Sam Waterston, Stalker Channing, Thomas. Lenin, B.B. Newworth, Stephen Fry, a whole bunch of French people. I'm not even going to bother subjecting you all to my terrible French. They're all French people. They're lovely and fine.

Premiered in limited release on August 8th, 2003, opening wide on August 29th. That probably should have been an early indication that this wasn't going to be the Oscar bait. We maybe wanted it to be opening in August. It's weird that they took it out of competition to Venice after the movie that already opened. considering it got bad reviews. And that I wonder if it's just like they had promised merchant and ivory that they were going to make a push at the European festivals, but they were like, but you didn't tell us when we could release the movie in America.

So, yeah, I'm going to find my phone. Bobby, if you are ready, we are going to put 60 seconds on the clock and you can run down the plot of La Divorce. Okay. Are you ready? I'm ready. All right, 60 seconds on the clock now. So Kate Hudson is an American who visits her pregnant sister, Naomi Watts.

I'm just going to call them by their actor names in Paris for fun. Then the moment she gets there, Naomi Watts's French husband dumps her and runs out on her and her daughter so he can be with the woman he's having an affair with a French woman who's cheating on her American husband, Nathan O'Don, with him. So Kate Hudson stays longer than expected. She gets a job archiving stuff for Glenn Close. she starts dating her like hunky young assistant then starts having an affair with some older french guy who is related to Naomi Watts's husband in a way I never really figured out and then Naomi Watts is like I can't handle this she attempts suicide but her survives then their parents doctor Channing and Sam waterson come to visit meanwhile there's this whole custody battle over a prize

painting that may or may not be authentic that you know BB Newworth is trying to get to the bottom of then Matthew Modine tries to oh god Matthew Modine kills his wife and Naomi's husband and tries to Kate Nomey, but doesn't. Then Kate dumps the old guy, starts dating the young guy, and then Naomi Wary's a French divorce lawyer. Well done. One second to spare. You got it all in there and made it sound way more exciting than the movie ever. I could not believe. When Naomi Watts goes to the hospital and there's this extremely tense, dramatic scene where Kate walks in the apartment is like, hey girl, where are you? And then gasps at this body. And then it just cuts to you know

stalker channing and Sam Waterston at the airport being like we're here like your daughter tried just fine to commit suicide yeah there's no trauma evident kind of anywhere even like in the hospital afterwards yeah like let's discuss the painting

she's just like she looks gorgeous her hair is perfectly done manicured into perfection and she's just like the baby's fine yeah here's my other thing about this is the Matthew Modin character who I I get it that, like, he's whatever, he's flipped a switch, he's totally on edge, whatever. I don't get why he becomes so obsessed with harassing the sister of the ex-war, whatever, the estranged wife of the man who is carrying on an affair with his wife.

It's just like that's so many degrees of separation removed. Right, she has nothing to do with it. Like, very, and keeps coming back to, like, he harasses her in the bookstore, or weirdly, like, flirts with her at the bookstore, actually. and then gets like taken out but then like obviously like first of all spots her and her mother who he's never seen before out of the window of a cab as they're passing the Eiffel Tower and like they've got like an umbrella like I don't understand this whole thing where he's just like her and like then sort of fixates on them and again makes no sense that he's fixated on them I get that he's just like he's sort of gone round the bend or whatever but cheap or just like it makes very little sense this this you know No. I think my biggest, if I had a, I mean, I have a lot of problems with this movie, but I think fundamentally, this is now that I'm thinking about it, the biggest problem I have with the movie is the painting, is the fact that they suddenly make this painting, this anchor of the plot and the anchor of all these, I don't know, the, um, um, meganations of everything and the desires of everyone when really it, the movie is not that. great at displaying how rich the American family is, because it's like, we know how to signify, like, French wealth and European wealth and, like, very old money in this very French way. But it's like, I, it wasn't good at communicating whether or not they needed this

money. And then by the end of it, they, they use the money to start some sort of fund, which is like, so you didn't need the money. So why did I care whether or not you got this extra four million dollars if you're just going to use it for grants and stuff? Like, it, right. It doesn't matter if you already are comfortable, you know? So why do we care about what happens to this painting if all of you are going to be fine regardless? Also, and I don't know whether you guys felt the same way, although knowing this may be possibly true, did the fact that it was stalker Channing in a movie about appraising art with like your six degrees of separation switches and just like kind of a make you want to watch that movie instead? But B, just like sort of graft things onto her character that ultimately,

aren't there. Absolutely. The only people who really show up in this movie are Glenn Close, Stocker Channing, and B.B.

Newworth. Yeah. Like, I want to watch the B.B. New Worth art gallery movie. Although,

again, you cast B.B. Newworth, and then you give her a character who has no conflict or sort of

edge to her whatsoever. She's just like, she's happy that she's found this painting, and then in the end, she's happy

that she wins the auction. And it's just like, okay, well, that's great. But, like, you know, Bibi New Earth can, like, kick ass, right? Just, like, maybe let her do that. Yeah, she can, she can shank Stephen Frye instead of, like, look at him askance across Christie's. They literally bring in three separate actors, her, Stephen Fry, and then the guy from the Lou, all to, at very different points, just, again, appraise this piece of art and try to give money to this family.

And it's just like, and listen, I am a gross capitalist person. pig with the worst of them where when this family gets four point five million euros for this thing i do generally get happy because i love to see people get money in movies but even still you're right it's just like the second that's over it's just like so what kind of a what kind of an ending is this what victory is this exactly and also you mentioned the fund the whatever the st ursula fun yeah but it's just like what does that mean what are they good what i don't know what you're going to do what was in naomi wats's life that she needed to rectify is this for mothers, because she's not a single mother by the end of the movie.

She marries the handsome lawyer or whatever. A lawyer. A lawyer who at some point starts speaking perfect, unaccented English, and I was just like, wait a second, are you French or are you not French or are you not French? I don't understand. So much of this movie, I don't know, feels kind of slapped together. And again, I'm fine with slap together if the results feel, even if it's messy, if it's fun messy, I'm into it. This movie just doesn't have any fun with its own concept, doesn't have any fun with the fact that they're casting Naomi Watson, Kate Hudson, who at the time were two very exciting actresses.

Like, Kate Hudson's only a few years removed from Almost Famous. Naomi is only a couple years removed from Mahal and Drive. And I remember that's why I was excited about this movie to begin with. I was just like, oh, cool, I like those two actresses. They seem plausible as sisters. That sounds like really like, you know I love a good move. Bobby, you especially know. how much I love a good movie about sisters.

And this movie just doesn't invest itself in their, in their relationship. It so quickly puts Kate on her own in this sort of like romantic whatever storyline that again, we don't care about. We have no investment in her relationship with this older man who like is a fascist or something. Like I couldn't tell whether that was when people were watching him on TV or whatever. And they were like, he wants to bomb the Middle East. And I was just like, okay.

It looks just like, Jesus Christ, I don't know. It's the thing that Bobby brought up earlier that it's like, it's playing too nice with all of the discord between the French and the Americans. It's also like this movie doesn't know how farcical or funny to be. It doesn't know how dramatic to be. So it's like you have scenes of Naomi Watts opening her wrists and it's like, where is this coming from? But it does it with the characters too because it never gets all that invested in anybody or like finds interesting. things about them. That's why I like Glenn Close in this because like when you have a showboating actor like she can be, it's like, oh, finally there's some life if nobody else is doing anything.

It was a movie. I kept thinking like the whole time I was watching, and I think it was something about this particular time, the size of the cast, the sort of prestigeiness of the cast, but also specifically because it was some Americans, a comedy of manners in 2003, some America and some French people, I was like, I wish this were a two and a half hour Robert Altman movie instead with the same, I don't know, basic outline because I want more stuff to be going on. Like, I want to see these people talking to each other more. Like, I want to get more glimpses of the BB newer stuff. I want to see all these things happening. And for a movie that is almost, isn't it almost a full two hours? Yes. It's so dull. And every time you think,

like okay baby new okay stalker channing showed up is has shown up like we're going to get some more stuff happening it just never rises above not even a simmer and it's like come on there's so much potential here like let's get some let's get some i don't know like dynamic stuff happening here yeah so it's also really not sexy at all like the french bohemian guy that she sleeps with is super cute her french lawyer is super or Naomi watts's french lawyer is super cute but like sex is so transactional in this movie in a way that's not like part of the fun

yeah I mean this is a movie that like can take a scene of Kate Hudson lingerie shopping in Paris with like a language barrier and make it not fun like that's that should be you know a very funny romp kind of a scene and just like

I don't know we're obviously going to get into the Naomi Watts sort of careerness of it all in a second but I didn't want to pass up the opportunity to sort of delve quickly into Kate Hudson's career. I know, Bob, you are, would, are you, can I say you're a fan of Kate Hudson? Is that accurate? Are you, are you interested? Oh, yeah. I love Kate Hudson. Oh, I love Kate Hudson. Yes. I love, love, Kate Hudson. This movie comes at a really interesting point in her career because, so almost famous,

which I didn't even realize until now I'm looking at her IMDB list, was her third movie, with her third feature film, which is kind of crazy. She made a movie called Desert Blue that I remember hearing about but I never saw that also starred like Christina Ricci and Casey Affleck 1998 1999 she was in 200 cigarettes which was the first thing I had ever seen her in I remember I love 200 cigarettes very interested in that movie there everybody's in that one Bobby have you seen that movie yeah okay that movie is really fun she's kind of really fun in it who is she is she opposite Jay Moore in all her scenes where they're on like a date right this really bad yes I believe so and he's such a charisma vacuum I always find that like

But she really, like, carries that scene or those scenes. I forget if she ends up with him because the end of the movie, there's all these, like, yes, hopscatching of bedfellows. Right. People have these chance meetings, and all of a sudden they realize that, like, Courtney loves really good in that movie, as I recall. Christina Ricci is really good. She and Gabby Hoffman are these two.

Gabby Hoffman, yeah. Like Long Island girls sort of looking for a fun party. I enjoyed that. Martha Plimpton Rules. She's hosting the New Year's party. and she thinks everybody's going to show up at like 7 p.m. And of course, no one's there. So she spends the rest of the night thinking that she is some type of loser

and she's just waiting for people. And she's more and more angry and drunk. Yeah. And then almost famous is the very next year. And I, I, like, that's still such an important movie for me. I really flipped for that movie. I adored it then. I adore it now.

And she was in line seemingly to win the Academy Award. She'd won the Golden Globe. she was this like classic ingenue story she's a legacy this whole thing and i think everybody sort of like took it as a fait accompli and i think there was she had francis mcdormand also nominated in that category so there was definitely like some splitting of the almost famous vote i think there was also like an undercurrent of like is she really that good or is she just like pretty and then oscar night arrives and who wins but our favorite from mitcho black marcia gay hardon What a thrill.

What a thrill. What a thrill. My favorite understatement of anything at the Oscars. What a thrill. Or she gave her. And then so all of a sudden now Kate Hudson's has the career boost of the Oscar without actually getting the Oscar, which I thought is interesting. And then after that, she has the sort of period where I think she's getting a lot of offers.

And there was a lot of, you know, not a ton of anticipation, but there was some anticipation of like where does she go and she comes out in 2002 with the four feathers directed by shekhar Kapoor who was the director of elizabeth who was also coming off a big oscar success uh it's kate hudson heath ledger west bentley like the most 2002 collection of like uh sort of young hot up-and-coming talent i've never seen it oh my god it's bad we'll eventually do a four feathers episode 100% it's worth seeing it's definitely you can tell it's based on a novel this is sort of of just like this sort of overwrought love triangle in the midst of the story about this deserter

from the British forces in wherever the hell they were traipsing across the globe trying to colonize everything. Again, not a good movie, but like a very of its moment movie and it bombs. And it's so, you know, Oscar hopes absolutely decimated. And then I think from there it was just like, oh, okay, so now her next movie is How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days. And then it's like, okay, this is the Kate Hudson thing now. The Kate Hudson thing isn't going to be, I'm going to go chase an Oscar. The Kate Hudson thing is going to be, oh, I'm going to be in romantic comedies and try to make that sort of that thing. And people really resented that. And so her career kind of, you know, took a turn from there. 2003, it's How to Lose a

in Ten Days, La Divorce, and Alex and Emma, which is really representative. I've never seen Alex and Emma. Have you guys? either. No. I have not. It just doesn't. That's the movie. People hated it. It's a Rob Reiner that it's a Rob Reiner movie. Her and Luke Wilson, the only thing I know about it is that she's got brown hair in that movie.

And I just remember being like, I'm just like, Kate Hudson and brown hair just seems wrong. I don't know. It seems like you're sort of you know, it's not Kate Hudson. And I know that like that shouldn't matter as much, but whatever. She's such a quintessentially blonde actress to me.

So I don't know. Talk about your feelings on Kate Hudson, Bobby, because I want to hear him. I think she's extremely funny. I'm not even a fan. I love Almost Famous, obviously. I don't love how to lose a guy in 10 days, but I love her in it. And I think it just makes, it just, it's such a good, I don't know, display of her potential for being like the impossibly charming comedy lead, not even just romantic comedy lead.

she's so cute. She's just the cutest actor. And I love when she's in something, even if I hate the movie. I think she's amazing and something borrowed. Something borrowed is just, I think, great. I wish those sequels came out. Something borrowed is a really underrated movie.

That is a movie that is... That has more to say about relationships than this. Yeah, that's a movie that purports to be a romantic comedy, but is more serious than you expect it to be, but in a good way. Like, that movie takes its characters, emotions, really, really seriously. And it's funny that she's in that movie

a couple years after Bride Wars, which does like all the worst things about the like impending marriage movie about best friends sort of having conflict with a wedding on the way kind of a thing. And like Bride Wars does that all wrong, but something borrowed does it really, really right. And I think that when I think about Kate Hudson,

it's like I, she's just like you said, she's, you know, peak nepotism. She can do whatever she wants. So like, why not, why not act? She doesn't have to. act and you know I wish you were in more things but if I were in her shoes why would you be in more things if you didn't have to be she has flabletics like she's fine she doesn't need to do this she likes being home she likes doing Instagram um and uh the other thing I'll say about Kate Hudson is

I do not have many I do not have many celebrity stories I wish I had more celebrity stories but the best celebrity story I have and one that I am not likely to ever surpass is that I met Kate Hudson once we were at the same, like, restaurant. And I said hello to her. I worked up the courage to say hi to her. This was like, I don't know, eight years ago. And she was so friendly and cool and fun. And I was like, you are amazing. She was outside smoking a cigarette with her friend. And I worked up the courage to say hello. It was outside some bar. And I worked up the courage to say hi. I said, I'm a big fan. Hello, hello. And she shook my hand. She introduced me to her friend. We had a few words. She was like laughed at something and then I went back and she was like,

thanks for saying hi. And I was like, I, even if I were, I was, I was already a fan of hers and that just took her to the stratosphere. I love her. I wish you read more things. And I don't know, I love Goldie Hawn so much. And one thing that really, now I'm just going to go off on a tangent, I hate it snatched. Do it. I hate it snatched. I don't think anyone liked snatched. I never saw it because I didn't want to be disappointed in a terrible awful awful beyond awful and the whole time i was watching snatched i was like why isn't this a movie about goldie hon and kate hudson why is amy shumer in this and why haven't goldie hond and kate hudson made a movie where their mother and daughter because can you imagine two more charismatic like charming actors in hollywood no yeah and i don't know i my my

the main thing ultimately what i have to say about kai hudson is that i think she's great i wish she were in more things, but I understand why she's not, and I treasure any opportunity to see her, because she really, when you look at her INDB, like, it's just not as stacked as you kind of remember it being in a way, and it's filled with things that you've either never seen or never heard of, and it's like, oh, that movie with her and Gail Garcia-Bernal that I always see on like a streaming site or whatever, because it's just like her face and his face on a poster, and I'm like, well, there's two very attractive people, but I've never been tempted to watch it, like at all and I don't know anybody who has it's so weird yeah and mother's day awful

that kate hudson is like the spitting image of her mother has all of her personality it's just like they're they vibe on such the same frequency and then you have like oliver hudson who is just an absolute void of any of that and i was just like how does genetics work this way like how does it just like all get put to kate and just oliver is left with nothing it's so funny to me you mentioned Robert Altman earlier and I'd be really interested to have seen what Kate Hudson could have done in like a Robert Altman movie because she feels like the type of performer that is right for something like an ensemble movie like that where she has this incredibly compelling like command of the screen like I think of her first scene in almost famous as like the definitive one where she's just basically explaining what the world of this is and like can make it seem incredible. incredibly appealing both towards her and whatever world she is selling you. I'm a journalist. I'm not, not a, you know.

You're not a what? You're not a what? Not a... Groupie. We are not groupies. This is Penny Lane, man. Show some respect. Groupies.

sleep with rock stars because they want to be near someone famous. We're here because of the music. We are Band-Aids. She used to write a school for Band-Aids. We don't have intercourse with these guys. We support the music. We inspire the music. We're here because of the music.

I think it is that romantic comedy thing that kind of dispel some of that because that's not necessarily what was interesting about her. She was the truest, like, Meg Ryan successor. yes but meg ryan had more movies yeah yes and maybe not less quantity of movies but like less movies or she had more movies that you remember that have stuck like really hard in the consciousness they managed though to cast meg ryan opposite a lot of actors who she played really well against obviously tom hanks is the biggest one but like billy crystal is such like you wouldn't expect that necessarily but like that was part of what made when harry met sally so good

and even in something like what did I just watch recently oh god I just watched Kate and Leopold for the first time recently and I was just like this movie is dumb but it's charming and fun and she's just like it made me miss Meg Ryan and I think you see Kate Hudson's career and they cast her opposite McConaughey twice which is funny because the first time I don't think they're not bad chemistry wise but they're not great chemistry wise like I don't think it's just like ah yes returning to that great McConaughey Hudson Charm or whatever. Kate's doing all the work there. Kate's propping him up. Right. But they cast her opposite Luke Wilson, who's just like, I don't hate Luke Wilson, but

like he's very situational and doesn't, you know, isn't really a great romantic lead as far as I'm concerned. They cast her opposite, like, Matt Dillon in Yumi and Dupree, and I guess Owen Wilson is also in the two, but like she and Matt Dillon are the ones who are married in that movie, if I'm not mistaken, right? Oh, yes. who the hell's seen that movie but like now she's stuck playing like wives and like she was she was in marshall where she was yes yes she was boy really bizarre that she's playing that role okay can i tell you though

one of the the most recent thing on her i mdb her upcoming movie says it's in post-production right now It is a drama slash musical, as far as IMDB is concerned, details the story of a sober drug dealer and their disabled sister starring Kate Hudson, Hector Elizondo, and Maddie Ziegler, the little dancer. Guess who co-wrote and directed this movie? Oh, I looked this up last night. I'm not going to answer because I know. It's the most insane thing.

It's Sia. No. No. How much am I going to be the first. person in line. I don't know how I hadn't heard about it until last year. How are we, how is this not all that we're talking?

It's finished. Like, it's practically finished. Yes. Well, it's literally called music. It is directed by Sia. You know my favorite thing in the world is movies with, movies with Sia songs in them. And Maddie Ziegler is the little dancer girl from the chandelier video.

Like she's little baby Sia. Unreal. I cannot wait. if Tiff happens this year this will absolutely be at TIP it's so weird I can't yeah no this is very much because obviously the first thing I think of

is Vox Lux when I think of a Sia movie musical but like the fact that it's Kate Hudson in the lead I'm flipping out I'm flipping out Kate Hudson would have been great as the lead in Vox Lux Catsroom rolls like that

Did you know that Natalie Portman was supposed to be in La Divorce Natalie Portman and Winona Ryder where it's supposed to be the sisters and La Divorce. Really? That makes total sense. But again, I don't necessarily see that as like fixing the movie either.

No. I think it would have just been those two adrift in a movie that didn't know how to be funny. Wild. All right. We can't get out of the Kate Hudson conversation without talking about nine. I think she's great in nine. Cinema Italian. I've never seen nine.

I've never seen nine. I hope she shows up in Sia's music just doing Cinema Italiano again. I love the black and white. I love the play of light The way Contini puts his image through a prism I feel my body chill gives me a special thrill Each time I see that Guido Neo-Realism I love the dark and handsome guys with their skinny little tides

Just mad-looking out of sight I love to watch him as they cruise with their pony leather shoes Where shades in the middle of the night Whatever Guido does it makes me smile He is the essence of Italian style I love the glamorous Latin world only Guido And portray Continue his cinema

Italiano I love his cinema Italiano He makes me feel His cinema Italian My life is real Is cinema Italian

He's the king of Cinema Italiano Bobby Not a good movie But I will say If you're a Kate Hudson fan You should at least

Just sort of maybe watch it Until the first Half Hours And whatever After her big musical She just has one song Right

Yes Yes. Fergie's the best thing about that movie, and I stand by that. But yeah, both of the best things about that movie are women with one musical number apiece, and you can stop watching pretty much halfway through the movie, because you won't get any more of them. To my understanding, it's, like, hard to get a hold of that movie somehow. Really? That's interesting. Yeah, and I'm guessing it's because of Weinstein Co. Availability type of things, but I've been told by people it's not the easiest people to get your hands on if you don't have a... physical copy. But yes, seek that movie out, Bobby. Okay. So because this is a Naomi Watts miniseries, we should really get into her. I think the thing about talking about Naomi Watts in the context of La Divorce is ultimately like, this movie doesn't really do a whole lot to advance her career. Her 2003 is an interesting year because that's the year she finally gets her Oscar nomination,

which is for 21 grams, which I think 21 grams and her Oscar buzz for that did a lot to probably position la divorce as an afterthought anyway where if somebody wanted to make a go of Naomi Watts as an Oscar nominee this year and really wanted to push La Divorce, they probably could have tried, but they didn't because she had 21 grams coming up. 21 grams is not a movie I love, but I'm happy that she got an Oscar nomination for it because I think she was so overdue from Mulholland Drive. I thought it was such a, I guess I would say inexplicable snub for Mahal and Drive, except it's explicable because they tried to do the thing

where they tried to push her in supporting for a while and it was like she's not the supporting actress she's the lead actress of Mulholland Drive, it's so stupid. It's also the thing about her 21 Graham's nomination that's the first one that I think kind of marks her two Oscar nominations is she's never more than third place, right? Like she never really is a threat to win because this year, opposite 21 grams and, I guess, the divorce, is that it's Diane Keaton versus

Charlize Theron pretty much all season long. Charlie's Theron's the one that's buzzed well far enough in advance that, like, that thing had momentum before people saw the movie. Yes. Monster is what we're talking about. Yeah, Monster. And once people saw something's got to give, that gave Charlize Theron, like, her only competition. Her name was Eileen Wernos, not that thing, Chris?

That's not what I meant. Get this thing back to Baltimore. Yeah, 2003, which we obviously talked about in our 2003 episodes, but in terms of best actress, I remember there being a magazine cover around the time I think it was EW, but I can't remember where it was, I think it was Kidman, Jennifer Connolly, and Naomi Watts. And those I remember being the three front runners at the early, early, early part of that year for Best Actress. because everybody assumed that Kidman would get nominated for Cold Mountain. We talked about that back then, about how that didn't happen. Jennifer Connolly was hugely, hugely pushed for the House of Sand and Fog. She had been coming off of a supporting actress win a couple years before for a beautiful mind.

And then of those three, Naomi Watts was the one who kind of like held on by the skin of her teeth and managed to like get that nomination. But even still, I think it was viewed at the time of just like, well, like the backlash against 21 grams wasn't enough to sweep her away. She and Benicio del Toro got nominated for that movie. But you're also talking about two other actresses that their co-stars and their male co-stars were also nominated before.

And like Naomi Watts kind of smooth sailed into that third place because, again, we talked about this best actress race in our 2003 miniseries, but the other two nominees are Samantha Morton for in America who like that movie had a returning surge but was not fully predicted to do well with Oscar in the last minute and Keisha Castle Hughes for Whale Rider who was campaigned in supporting and that performance was loved enough that it got into Best Actress. So like this was a very like fluid so to say Best Actress lineup. Yeah, where do you come down on that Oscar year for Best Actress Bobby?

I mean, I'm, I mean, you know, I'm going to say Dying Keaton. Yeah, that's not the wrong answer. She's so good. I think she's great in that movie, and I would have completely supported that. And I, and that's also the Nancy Myers movie that they all do, but that one, that one grows in its ranking every single time I watch it more and more and more. And as does her performance in it, there's a lot to it. And I would have loved that. Yeah, and that's Diane Keaton's last Oscar nomination,

which is, you know, too bad for a lot of reasons. She's so good in that movie. And it's such a tonal difference from Charlize and Monster, who I think is wonderful, and I think that's a fully deserved Oscar win. But, like, the tone of Naomi in 21 grams is also this sort of, like, incredibly dark thing and her scenes are all this very kind of like emotionally fraught everything she's playing a grieving mother in that movie which and that movie kind of like plays sort of gotcha with the tragedy at the center of it that's the thing the whole thing is like you know

scenes are presented out of chronological order that's the whole giermo ariaga it's the gimmick yeah yeah and um ultimately you're sort of like but what happened whatever and then ultimately it's just like yeah her kid died like it's the most wrenching her husband and her kid i thought right yeah like her whole family dies in a car wreck it's incredibly harrowing and sean penn has her husband's heart is that what oh yeah that's what it is it's it there's a heart that there's a transactional heart thing i haven't seen it since it was since like since it was in theaters yeah Right. The, but like that's, but the way everything that you're saying about it just, I think, makes, just supports my, my Diane Keaton, you know, support because Monster, yeah, Naomi and Charlize are great in their respective movies that year. But like, there's the biopic with a lot of makeup and then there's the really, really bleak Oscar Beatty in your Eritu movie. Like, of course I prefer the comedy. That's, it's so much.

It's atypical. It's more exciting. It's more fun. And like, if we've learned anything about the Oscars in the past years now that no one's watching them anymore, it's like we want to watch them for surprises, for fun things. So, like, I don't know. I think it's also probably telling why I love Samantha Morton so much that year because that is, it's still, that still has a lot of heaviness. You talk about, you know, family tragedy and like dead children or whatever. but that movie plays very often on that kind of like bittersweet sort of wistful you know finding small lines of grace within like whatever and like that's my fucking bread and butter like i love so much of what i love in in america is about that um bringing it back to naomi for a second though i want to throw out because the one movie we didn't really linger on much is the ring because it's not an oscar buzz movie i think she's freaking fantastic

in the ring. She is an incredible horror actress, to be honest, because, like, Mulholland Drive, especially certain stretches of it, play like a fucking horror movie. Oh, absolutely. So it's like she can do these things. She can be, like, not quite a scream queen with what she's doing, but, like, she is absolutely a huge portion of the reason why the ring is so scary because of her performance. I think she's great at that early skepticism.

like she has she has the skepticism down and the like scream queen stuff down like i you buy her as both things and she really does it's it's just a great it's a great horror movie for a lot of reasons but that journey that you know the protagonist journey of the horror movie it's sort of like the virginia madsen and candyman going from skeptic to true believer is like is a is really great and i think there are a lot of similarities between those two performances actually and i actually i remember when there was all of the praise for the Babadook at the time and that not only is it this great horror movie but it also tells the story of a woman's sort of like you know long-term postpartum depression she's got this kid who she maybe you know doesn't want to have and he's such a

huge handful and she you know all this stuff and i think that movie got a lot of credit for just like having a story about a woman in it but like and while that's true i feel like the ring maybe didn't get credit for maybe that same angle. There's so much in that movie that I love that involves Naomi Watts being like how is this my child? I hate this kid. Like what the actual fuck

and maybe if a and also I forget that she's in that movie and partly because that movie when it came out was wrapped up in like all of these horror movies from Asian cinema getting these US remakes and like

that was the brand. So it's like she you know she's not on the poster she's barely in the trailers for it but like she's in it basically every scene of that movie like making the movie work and like she still doesn't feel like got the credit for that movie because that's got to be one of her biggest money makers if not i mean aside from king kong it's got to be like the one right right if i'm remembering correctly yeah that would make a lot of sense um and also can't we can't talk about the ring without talking about how excellent the trailer for the ring is one of one of my favorite you know trailers during that era that was like very early on and like going to apple.com slash trailers

you know every day to see what what was new and watching watching the ring over and over again because it was just so well done. Did you ever watch the trailer on the ring's website? Not that I can recall. So if you watched that the version that they like thought was too scary to actually put in theaters or something. May I don't remember that specifically but they so you watch the trailer on the ring's website and then once the trailer is, done and it sort of and just like the file stops there's a you hear a distant phone ringing sound on the site oh god and i remember the very first time that that happened i was just like it like sent a shiver and i was just like this is very very good this is very good marketing um from the like

sort of post blair witch era um i wanted to mention this 2003 in the in uh fox searchlights you know evolution because this is a fox search light movie and they were still they hadn't quite had their big huge breakthrough they had the full monte but i think that was so much you know attributable to its kind of britishness um but in the 2000s they had gotten a couple they'd gotten an acting nomination for ben kingsley in sexy beast they had gotten a best actor nomination for geoffrey rush in quills and so 2003 though they seem to have like that's the year that 28 days later gets released in the States and it's a big huge success and whatever. But in terms of their Oscar stuff, it seemed like they were setting up for any number of

these kind of like Americans slash European sort of hybrids and, you know, see what sticks. They had the Good Thief, which was the Neil Jordan movie with Nick Nolte that I never saw, but I remember some people really liked that. They had that Javier Bardem movie, The Dancer Upstairs, that was directed by John Malkovich, which also I've ever seen. Avi Arbaudem is naked in that movie. Worth seeing. That's the only thing I remember about it.

La Divorce, and then at the end of the year, they had in America, which I think they had decided, basically, was that was going to be their Oscar play. So they put their effort into that. And as Chris said, that one had, like, early buzz, and then it kind of got ignored. It sat around for a year because it was at the TIF before. Yes, that's right.

And then so all of a sudden it had that, like, very, very late rebound. where it gets the Samantha Morton and Jiam and Hansu nominations. And then they also had picked up 13 at, I'm pretty sure, Sundance. And that gets a nomination for Holly Hunter, almost gets a nomination for Evan Rachel Wood. So Le Divorce sort of, you know, even with that year that's not like, it's not a blockbuster year for Fox Searchlight. But I think LeDivorce sort of falls into this kind of background of, you know, American Euro kind of co-production that doesn't catch fire in the, States at all.

I a quick thing about 2003, I was texting my sister last night because for some reason, even though I had never seen it until yesterday, La Divorce always reminds me of my sister because I worked at Blockbuster in like 2005-ish. My sister worked at Blockbuster earlier on like 2001 to

2000, I want to say four when she was in college and like the summer after she graduated from college. college. But I think this was like, the season that Le Divorce was on DVD had just come out was like the tail end of her being a blockbuster. And I remember her telling a story about how she was sick of people coming in. Everyone said lay divorce because it was Austin. So it was like Texas accents. It's like, look at her lay divorce. And I knew this anecdote where she was like, oh my God, I can't stand hearing it pronounced wrong. Like not that she's like a French person or ever

took French, but she was like, it's driving me crazy. Everyone comes in and asks for lay divorce. and it became a joke between her and her co-worker, like, hey, y'all have lay divorce? And without fail, I remember her saying, everyone would return it and hate it. And so no one liked lay divorce. And that's something that I remembered about lay divorce. And I was like, well, I've texted her last night.

I finally watched lay divorce, and guess what, it was bad? And she was like, I don't even remember. I just remember thinking it sucked. Anyway, the thing about 2003 is that that era of Blockbuster, there was always one of those movies that she would recommend where it's like anytime she would make an honest recommendation, people would come back and say they didn't like it. And in this era, 2003,

she would always have to come up with a movie that was sort of broadly appealing that she could recommend that everyone liked. And around late of worst time, it was, guess the movie, runaway jury. And so she was like, anytime she would just like, if anyone asked, I would just say runaway jury

and nine times out of ten, they'd come back and say, I love runaway jury. That Grisham is such a crowd pleaser When I worked at Blockbuster I remember a big one that I would recommend To everyone was Beauty Shop And everyone loved Beauty Shop

And everyone loved Beauty Shop. It's great It is. It's a really good movie That was a movie that for so long Got these sort of like notorious stamp About just being just like Oh, it's awful

And it's, you know, it's dumb And it's an unnecessary spin-off and whatever And then I finally watched it And I was just like This movie's got damn delightful. It's really cute and it has a lot of Magic Mike double XL without strippers. Yes. And the like the cast of that movie is pretty impressive. It's great. The women in that, the women in that beauty shop are, you know, like a force to be reckoned with. It's a lot of fun.

I don't know. But sorry for that tangent. But lay divorce is inextricably linked to runaway jury for me. Anyway. Wait, I want to now give the rundown on the cast and beauty shop because it is, you're right. It's Queen Latifah. Alphrey Woodard is in this movie. Alicia Silverstone, Andy McDowell, Mina Suvari, Della Reese, Keisha Knight Pulliam, Sherry Sheppard, Cheryl Underwood from The Talk. It's just, and it's, again, they just sort of just like Octavia Spencer's in this movie credited as big customer. Okay. Well, she has the line that She has the trailer line, I don't eat or drink anything I can't spell. And then the other beauty shop employee says,

what are you a spelling B champ or something like that? You want a cabuccino? I don't eat or drink, nothing I can't spell. You must be like the spelling be champ. The, but it's like, but yeah, the fact that Alphrey Woodard and Delores and Andy McDowell and Laura Hayes is a comedian who's in, did you ever see the Queens of Comedy? Laura Hayes is a comedian in that. She plays Queen Latifah's mother-in-law.

These are really, really funny women in this movie. And, you know, Kevin Bacon is acting in this movie, doing a very weird accent. That is a joke until it suddenly isn't. I don't know. I love beauty shop. He's the rival hairdresser. He's the rival hairdresser, yes. Oh, my God, amazing.

Absolutely amazing. I did make a note of when I watched the La Divorce trailer before we started and the tagline at the end of the trailer is and it's one of the probably one of the later voiceover trailer because at some point voiceover becomes obviously like not a thing anymore it just sounds too corny for everybody but this goes everything sounds sexier in french and it's just like i guess that was kind of the idea of la divorce was just like well sure like none of this is all too terribly interesting but it's in france and it's just like yeah but like there are limits to what just setting something in France does, especially when you don't really like lean into it.

Like I kept waiting for them. In the trailer, they have all these sort of like beauty shots of like food on a plate or whatever. And I'm just like, yeah, if that's your thing, like really like jump into that. Show us how sort of enamored Kate Hudson's character is of this French setting. And I think this movie kind of tells us that she is. But I don't know if we ever really feel it. You and also the not in a way that's fun to watch. Yeah, and it's sort of fun in that first, maybe, if I'm being generous, 15 minutes, because, I mean, we're all in quarantine and those scenes of her, you know, arriving in Paris and taking that first walk around Paris with Naomi and then they go to

that restaurant where they meet Glenn Close. Like, it really made me hungry for, yes, Paris, like being in Paris, like, imagine traveling to Paris how beautiful that would be, but just like being out and about, like, wow, look at the world, look how bustling. And that just falls off a cliff in, you know, in 15 minutes. It's no longer magical. It's wild to me that they just kind of suck the beauty out of Paris really quickly. Even though shots on the Eiffel Tower look weirdly staged and sound stagey and strange.

Like, it loses authenticity really quickly, and I'm not quite sure how. You both on Twitter this morning mentioned screenshoting the same image of Glenn Close in her. in her glasses and her college professor hair. And I think, I don't know, it's just like, once again, I know I mentioned that she's my favorite performance in this movie, but I think that's the direction I wanted the movie to go. And she has this one really kind of funny scene where she's sort of making a toast at this fundraiser that she's got

and sort of telling everybody to sort of just like, empty your pocketbooks because you can always take the metro. And she's like sort of like throwing out her French in this really kind of like, aren't I so impressive? accent and I just that's what I want out of this movie. Show me ridiculous Americans living their French fantasy. And like fetishizing Frenchness. Yes. And like thinking that they blend in as Glenn Close does. And she has she had especially in that scene where she says at the end like oh I see you're buying a scarf. We're both buying a scarf for the same person for different reasons. Like

she has that that judgy tone and I don't know the the the the the subtext that the a lot of the characters just do not have and you're right like she would have been a more interesting I don't know like the the narrator of this if she were the one who were observing the entire thing and the story was seen through her eyes like if she were writing a book about this you know what I mean like there are ways to have framed her as the center of this story that could have been really cute and fun and maybe made a little more interesting like what a waste of that's actually a Two writers wasted. It feels like the movie needs like, yeah. Like it needs a curator of experience. Like it needs a point of view to filter it through because to bring it, I guess, around to the Merchant Ivory like discussion, it feels like a failure of their aesthetic or like their point of view because like obviously we know them for like Ian Forster things.

Yeah. And this is contemporary. But it feels like they're trying to go for the same thing. it's like a class examination or a cultural examination that they never like get above a three and it needs to be at like eight it just it feels very very much like they're not as comfortable making these observations about class and society when it's in this contemporary setting and they don't just they just seem like they don't have a whole lot to say about it um but i do think bobby's suggestion of like basically a narrator function or a true protagonist function

in this story could solve a lot of that. Oh, yeah. Well, even, like, her, like, Kate's, like, narration comes sort of back in full force at the end, and I was just like, okay, but, like, where was this the whole time? You know, really. All right, we got to get Bobby out of here soon. So let's move on to the IMDB game, which, Chris, why don't we explain to our listeners once again what the IMDB game is.

So every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television or voice ever work, we will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints of handbags blowing in the breeze. At the IMDB game. Nice. Bobby, would you like to quiz Chris or me? Hmm. Who do I want to quiz? I'll quiz. I'll quiz. Joe. Is that okay?

Yeah, and do you want to give a clue first, guess first, or observe first? Get a clue. I'll guess first. You'll guess first. Okay, so Chris, you give to Bobby, Bobby will then quiz me, and then I will quiz Chris. Okay. All righty. So, I hold on, how did I even figure this person out? What was your path?

I'll go with the easier option then, and I'll come back to that person. otherwise um so i went down the merchant ivory route one of their most noted performers in multiple of their films is mr anthony hopkins for you i have anthony hopkins oh okay um the science of the lambs silence of the lambs um something weird um hannibal yes hannibal okay okay um two right guys guys um two right guys Is there something weird like, is the two popes among them? Is it? No.

No, okay. Netflix rarely will show up on here. There's also no TV, so no Westworld. Okay. Hmm. Something, is it, is it, is it, oh, could it be hearts in Atlantis? It is not Hearts and Atlantis. Okay, God.

What else could it be? Wait, can I ask for a hint? You could earn something and you'll get your year hints. I'll get a year hint. Yeah. Wait, what do I, what do I have to do? Sorry. Just give them here.

You can forfeit an answer. We'll give it to you, though. Your years are 2005, 2012. Oh, okay, okay. 2005 and it's not hearts in Atlantis no but it has the same

kind of like doesn't really exist status it has the same veneer of yeah wait oh I know what I can picture the poster for it to the um um um um

um the one where he's God the one where he drives it's uh the world's fastest Indian the world's fastest Indian the world's

fast as itty and I've never seen that. You got that. I am so proud of you. What was the other year? The other one, it is an Oscar nominee. He was campaigned for this movie and in the conversation for this movie, but like when the precursor started coming out, it ended up being his female co-star that was getting awards nominations for it. 2012.

Oh my God, I don't remember what. He was in, he was a Noah. He was a famous person. he's playing a famous person he has the titular role as this famous person yeah you almost certainly saw this movie but you almost certainly have forgotten

mostly about it okay is my guess is my guess god I can't even remember this period of Anthony Hopkins well you may not recognize him in this movie because he's playing a famous person And the, oh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Hitchcock. Hitchcock. Hitchcock. Okay. Okay. I can, I have not seen that movie actually. Okay.

Oh, interesting. Okay. I mean, it's not, it's not great. Wait, who plays, who's the other person in Hitchcock? Helen Mirren. Helen Mirren plays her wife. Oh, it's about the wife. It's not about like a Grace Kellio thing. Because I, uh, I recently watched Grace of Monica for the first time. So there was a weird Hitchcock performance in that. and there was a lot of her saying hitch oh hitch so much of it is Naomi is Nicole Kevin being like hitch oh hitch there was that stretch of like a lot of a lot of movies that had Hitchcock in it either as a main character or as a as a side character god that is so did the world's yeah did the I have none I have not seen the world's fastest in but didn't it kind of make a good amount of money wasn't it like it was

sort of like bucket listian like a lot of you know it was a it was a kind of a boomer movie a lot of older people saw that movie i think it had like a qualifying release it might have been shortlisted for like sound or something crazy okay it like existed in an oscar vernacular somehow but i don't think it was really a thing oh my god this poster what even is that thing is it a motorcycle it's a motorcycle yes okay yeah okay it's like a pod motorcycle yeah oh the poster says one of the year's best films from Jeffrey Lyons. Okay. From Jeffrey Lyons? Wow.

Oh yeah, that was the other thing. As I looked at the Rotten Tomatoes reviews for La D'Divorce. Of course, who is one of the few fresh ratings on La D'Irace, Rex Reed? Because reliably, everybody else hates the thing. There's Rex Reed being like,

nope, it's delightful. What did he say? A delightful blend of American sensibility and French chaos in a movie that is sunny, surprising, and consistently entertaining. He always sounds like his character on the critic. Did you ever watch The Critic that the John Lovett's cartoon? I watched it. I have no memory of the critic.

They always had, they, Rex Reed would always sort of like come on and sort of like Blair his, you know, reviews for something or other. And his actual quotes always sound exactly like that to me. Anyway, Bobby, why don't you now give me who you picked? Okay, I picked Stalker. Shanning? Is that going to be a, is that okay? Oh, very much so.

Okay. Because when I, when I looked at the, no television, all movies. Okay. All right. So no West Wing, no. It was my first, it was my first thought. And when I went to the I and DB, I was like, it has to be this. Perfect.

Okay. So Stocker Channing is six degrees of separation one of them? Yes. Okay. Is Greece one of them? Yes. Okay. Those were the two I knew you would get immediately.

Yes. Now it gets interesting. Okay. Is one of them, oh, I always call it the Walmart movie. What is it called? It is the Walmart movie. It's the Walmart movie, right? I want to give it to you, but I also want to see if you get it.

It's not anywhere but here, but it's around that same time. Oh, it's no. nowhere near as good as anywhere but here oh no anywhere but here is wonderful we did that of course early on on this podcast um stalker channing is built where the heart is it's called where the heart is sister husband one of the wildest character names ever it's called where the heart is okay so i thought you would i thought that's the one you wouldn't get so i think you're going to get them all okay so Stockard Channing I'm trying to think

lead roles are hard to come by so it's probably going to be something like featured supporting I don't think she's in too Wang Fu enough to to justify that being on although she's wonderful

in too Wong's Apple she's Apple if we're going to be friends there really is something I should tell you. Adam's apple? What? Adam's apple. Women don't have Adam's apples.

Only men have Adam's apples. In the first night you came to town, I noticed that you had yourself an Adam's apple. Didn't you know? I know. But I'm very fortunate to have a lady friend. and just happens to have an Adam's apple.

Oh, is it practical magic? It's practical magic. You got them all. You got them all. Perfect score. Wow, Joe got it all. Stocker Channing and Diane Weist as the baddy old ants in practical magic. One of my favorite things.

It's on cable all the time. Oh, I love that. I love that, Bobby. Thank you very much. God, I love Stocker Channing. All right, so I am quizzing you. Yes. All right.

All right, Chris, your turn. I have decided to also go the Merchant Ivory route. This actress was the first actress to get a nomination for a Merchant Ivory movie, the first performer to get a nomination for a Merchant Ivory movie. In 1984 is the Bostonians. This is, of course, Vanessa Redgra. Ah, the Zionist hoodlums. Exactly.

We do love you, Vanessa Redgrave. No TV. No television, no voiceover. Okay, cool. Julia, who she won for? Nope, not Julia. Gave that speech, damn. She's so good in that movie.

Yeah, she is. I mean, she's great in everything. Yeah. Okay, I'll go with the different. nomination and say Howard's End Howard's End which was nominated for best supporting actors for. The Great Merchant Ivory, Howard's End.

Love that movie. I don't think the Bostonians is going to be in there. I'll just say no. Atonement. Atonement, yes. A triumph of enduring hairstyles

atonement as older Brianie. I don't think Foxcatcher is going to be in there where she plays basically the same role as great-grandma Flambi from Knives Out. That's so true.

I mean, there is evening. You've gotten the two easy ones. The next two are somewhat carnage. There's just a lot. She's going to be really hard because she's in a billion

movies. She sure is. But she's always playing about the same level of role. Maybe I should guess something older when she was like still doing leads.

I'm just going to say evening. Evening is wrong. So that's two strikes. So now you get years. Your years are 2010 and 2011. So there goes that theory of older movies right up the window. I could not tell you.

which year it is but is one of them Coriolanus. One of them is Coriolanus. That's the 2011. Yeah. We could talk about Coriolanus. Yeah.

My favorite movie with an anus in the title. Le de anis. Can we also talk about because I never mentioned it's Le divorce, but the true

like American cultural critique versus like French culture opposing them is that IMDB calls it the divorce? I almost brought it up earlier. It annoys me so much that IMDB is like the divorce and then it's like la divorce in France. It's like no, the whole point of it. It was never advertised as the divorce. No, the whole point of it is that it's a French title. God damn it IMDB, the divorce. Okay, 2010

what was she doing? This was post-Nip-Tuck where she's getting fingered by Julian Alan McMahon, absolutely. Playing her mother to her real-life daughter, Julie Richardson. Yes. She was so good on NipTock. She was. Nasty. Gosh, what the hell is this movie? It's definitely fully been forgotten. But she plays a pretty integral role to the plot, even though she's not the lead. Okay. It's a romantic, comedy but like maybe light on the comedy i don't think i've ever seen it it is not dissimilar to the vibe that le divorce maybe wanted to go for but maybe um succeeds

oscarie no no okay so this is probably like a spring summer light romantic drama yes absolutely okay you've defined it it very well. I'm pretty sure directed by a director of a previous this had Oscar buzz movie, yes. That we did an episode on? Yes. Okay.

This was his last movie that he directed. As in this person has passed or this, okay. We talked about. It's a real interesting filmography, which we did mention in this episode.

Oh, it's Gary Winnick, it's Amanda Seifred. Yep. Is Vanessa Redgrave the title role, Juliet? Letters to Juliet. It is letters to Juliet, and I'm pretty sure that you are right that Vanessa Redgrave. Gary Winnick. Weirdly, I'm looking at the cast list. I don't see any character named Juliet.

So, like, maybe Juliet is referring to, like, Romeo and Juliet. yet, because the whole thing takes place in Verona, Italy. That's got to be what it is. Sure. But yeah, Vanessa Redgrave is sort of the older woman who I think sets, you know, Amanda Seiford's character kind of on her way. I don't know. I've never really seen this movie.

It's her and Gail Garcia Bernal as the... I would totally watch that movie right now. I was going to say, let me see us it even anywhere. It doesn't say. God, is it not available? No, wait. It's on Showtime if you have the Showtime channels. So that's fun.

Perhaps I will for Drag Race All-Stars. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's right. Good point. All right. So well done, guessing the Vanessa Redgrave IMDB game. Chris, good start. I would say good start to our Naomi Watts mini-series.

Anything we want to say to wrap up, Led Divorce and the current era that we are discussing of Naomi Watts. Yeah, Bobby, why don't you go first? You're our guest. Yes. I think like, I think it's wonderfully representative of my feelings for both Naomi Watts and Kate Hudson, but mostly Kate Hudson, though this is the Naomi Watts miniseries, so much potential that is, it's an extremely disappointing movie to watch, because everything on paper seems like it should lead to something that may not be a romp, but it's at least interesting and worth watching. And it's just sort of a complete, a complete, and not even a dump, it's just so dull. It feels like a waste.

It's maybe one of the most disappointing categories of movies. It just feels like a huge, tremendous waste. We're sort of not to, we're at the outset of our Naomi Watts miniseries. So I want to sort of allow us to maybe organically get there. But I think one of the things about Naomi Watson, why we picked a mini series for her is not just that she's been in so many movies that were initially pegged as Oscar possibilities, but that as her career goes along,

the choices just start to seem more and more frustrating. And I think if, you know, I wanted to sort of like walk us up to the door of what our next movie of hers is in the miniseries, which is going to be the painted veil. So in this sort of interim from La Divorce to the Painted Vale, it's stuff like something like, I mean, we talked about I Heart Huckabees, which we love, but it's like the assassination of Richard Nixon, which is her and Sean Penn together again. It's we don't live here anymore, which like I have a weird little like soft spot for, but, like, that is an indie that didn't really go anywhere, although perfectly cast.

You've seen that movie, right, Bobby? Oh, yeah. I love we don't live here anymore. Yeah. Laura Dern is genuinely fantastic in that movie. Incredible. But Naomi gets this sort of, like, she gets, like, maybe the least likable role. I don't know.

Peter Krause is really unlikable in that movie. I don't know. He is. But then she's in that movie Stay with Ryan Gosling, and I can't remember who else is in it, the Mark Forster movie stay after. Oh, I haven't seen that. Or the movie that was released. after finding Neverland.

And then King Kong, which is Peter Jackson's follow-up to the Lord of the Rings movies, and I think a movie that gets more respect now and her performance gets more respect now, but at the time, felt like, you know, felt like a miss for her. Yeah. I should re-watch that.

Never really kind of entered that conversation at the level that I think we could discuss a lot more now. Yeah. She probably deserved to for that performance. I think her choices, after this era get maybe more and more sort of head scratchy where it's just like what are you doing Naomi like what in the world

are you picking and I think at least this era you know I mean maybe she just like really liked working with Sean Penn you know what I mean maybe she just um you know and she's working with interesting directors in this area at least obviously David O Russell is one of them obviously Peter Jackson is one of them and In Uri too even James Ivory too because like we talked a little bit about how this is more of a modern movie, and we could probably save a lot of Merchant Ivory talk

for when we do a Merchant Ivory movie, but that would not have been a bad choice to make for a career to star in movies by people who have basically crafted the cliche of what is considered an Oscar Buzz movie. Well, and they've had such a good track record for women, especially. They got nominations for Vanessa Redgrave, for Emma Thompson wins, obviously, for Howard's End, gets nominated again for the remains of the day.

Joanne Woodward had gotten a nomination for Mr. and Mrs. Bridge. Maggie Smith. Right, Maggie Smith for a room with the view. So, like, the track record is definitely there. And I think sometimes the thing with Naomi Watts is she picks the track record and then is sort of like she's on the next train after, and that's the train that like breaks down and sort of strats her in the middle of nowhere. Yeah.

where she's always just like one film too late kind of and it's you know it's frustrating because she's genuinely a really great and engaging actress oh one of the things I did want to mention just really quick we all love her American accent right we all think that it's really good yes yeah one of the better American accents on you know

she's obviously she plays Americans most often like she's very very rarely in her native Australian and I don't I just think I always buy her as an American. I think it's very easy to buy her. Oh, me too. Yeah.

The only, I think the only time, there's one. Oh, no, you know what? No, that's, that's, I was thinking of someone completely different. No, she's always good as an American. Yeah. Wow, wow. Sorry, Naomi. I'm really sorry.

I almost slandered you. We do love Naomi, so I think in this many series there will be plenty of opportunities for us to say. sorry Naomi yes Bobby thank you so much for being with us on this podcast thank you for having me this was fun thank you for you know finally getting thank you for finally getting lit of worse off my to watch pile after you know 17 years thank you I appreciate I always feel like that's one of the my sort of like minor goals of this podcast is like for me and then like for anybody else interesting or listening is you know these are you know maybe movies you have thought about watching and never have and this one definitely

I think we can all now be happy to check it off. Because it's like they have Oscar Buzz and you're like, oh, I'll get to it. Then they lose the Oscar Buzz and you're like, you know, never mind. Oh, I'll watch it when they're an artifact. Yeah, I don't need to watch evening. Yeah. Well, thanks, guys. And that's our episode.

If you want more, This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Haskerbuzz. Had underscore Oscar underscore buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find you and your stuff? I am on Twitter at Chris V File, also on Letterbox, under the same name as Chris V File. Not let Krisvi File, just a regular Krispy File. Lechris, yes, I am on Twitter as Joe Reed, at Joe Reed. Read is spelled R-E-I-D.

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